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maroco
10-13-2019, 11:52 PM
Would appreciate some help with this haplogroup.

Principe
10-14-2019, 12:00 AM
I belong to L210, its very common amongst Ashkenazi Jews, small amounts in Sephardic Jews. In Europe its most common in Italians and Spaniards. There are others in Europe, in the Middle East its mostly found in Turks, the rest in smaller proportions would include Iranian Armenian royalty, Lebanese, Syrians, Kurds, in Yemen and Egypt of course it depends on the placement of the branch.

L210 dates to roughly 5200 ybp, originating somewhere in the Middle East, judging from the oldest samples somewhere around the Turkey-Syria border.

maroco
10-14-2019, 12:11 AM
Iím of Moroccan descent, placement of the branch?. I can post a screen shot of my Morley dna prediction if you like

Principe
10-14-2019, 12:13 AM
I’m of Moroccan descent, placement of the branch?. I can post a screen shot of my Morley dna prediction if you like

You would need to test further on a site like ftdna. Its cool by the way your the first Moroccan L210!

maroco
10-14-2019, 12:21 AM
thatís why I had to branch out to other forums nobody in my group had this haplogroup, thankfully I found you. Just another question, whatís the difference between isogg tree and experimental tree on Morley dna when doing the prediction. Here is the link to the prediction https://imgur.com/rqc7wG4

Principe
10-14-2019, 12:24 AM
that’s why I had to branch out to other forums nobody in my group had this haplogroup, thankfully I found you. Just another question, what’s the difference between isogg tree and experimental tree on Morley dna when doing the prediction. Here is the link to the prediction https://imgur.com/rqc7wG4

From the image its looks like your also Z489, you have 2 positives on the L210 branch. I don’t know but with Morley its calling snps for a positive.

maroco
10-14-2019, 12:33 AM
What would that mean, my Y line will be the same as yours?

Principe
10-14-2019, 12:38 AM
What would that mean being z489, that was on a experimental tree. Sorry I’m not great with these things

No worries, ask away! It would mean you belong to a branch under L210, well you have the positive for L227 which is usually indicative of Z489, to see if you belong to further branches you would need to upload your data to ftdna and order a Y test either snp or Y12-Y37.

J Man
10-14-2019, 12:39 AM
What would that mean, my Y line will be the same as yours?

Are you Berber?

maroco
10-14-2019, 12:46 AM
Yes, I am

maroco
10-14-2019, 12:47 AM
Thanks, youíve being a great help

J Man
10-14-2019, 12:49 AM
Yes, I am

Nice...Do you belong to a particular tribe?

maroco
10-14-2019, 12:51 AM
Yes, Rif.

maroco
10-14-2019, 12:55 AM
I think Iíve got an idea of where it came from, but there is many possibilities. We were invaded by the ottomans. I canít think of anyone else, there was Phoenicians in Morocco as well but I donít believe itís from them. I was quiet shocked I was the only one from my background to score it.

Principe
10-14-2019, 12:59 AM
Yes, Rif.

A very good friend of mine is Berber, he’s from Ouarzazate, well a little village just outside of it! Do you know this place?

Principe
10-14-2019, 01:05 AM
I think I’ve got an idea of where it came from, but there is many possibilities. We were invaded by the ottomans. I can’t think of anyone else, there was Phoenicians in Morocco as well but I don’t believe it’s from them. I was quiet shocked I was the only one from my background to score it.

It all depends on where your paternal ancestry comes from in Morocco, if your paternal side came from a city like Marrakesh, Tangiers, Fez or Casablanca the odds would be higher for an Ottoman explanation. If you come from a more remote village than the Phoenician explanation would make much more sense because your paternal line had time to move.

maroco
10-14-2019, 01:05 AM
Yes, itís beautiful, Iíve never being before. Iíve only ever stayed in Tangier and tetouan. I plan on visiting more places when I go back for my holidays, but most of my family is located in Tangier

maroco
10-14-2019, 01:06 AM
My uncle said we are from Taourirt

maroco
10-14-2019, 01:07 AM
DescriptionTaourirt is a town in Taourirt Province in the northern part of Morocco. Situated in the Oriental region about 100 km west to the city of Oujda. Iíve never being to be honest it looks small though on the map

maroco
10-14-2019, 01:13 AM
They did move from taourirt down south

Principe
10-14-2019, 01:16 AM
My uncle said we are from Taourirt

The area North had a heavy Phoenician presence and later Carthaginian one, I think this would be the most likely scenario of your direct paternal line, I would say it with 95% confidence!

maroco
10-14-2019, 01:21 AM
Thanks, youíve being a great help. Iíll test with FTdna and will let you know the results once I have them

maroco
10-14-2019, 08:39 PM
Also I donít know if this will be useful or not, but my family name is Ancient Greek in origin

alchemist223
10-16-2020, 03:59 PM
This could very well be the potential Y-DNA of my maternal family, who is from Calabria, Italy. Looking forward to learning more!

Devadatta
10-19-2020, 12:11 PM
I see a lot of Eastern and Central European flags on https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L210/, do you think the J-L210 branches in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Poland and Germany are of Jewish origin (at least for the paternal haplogroup)? mine could hypothetically be J-Y81401, as it's found on those two people from my paternal ancestry's region (now called Ivano-Frankivsk). could it gotten to Hutsuls/Rusyns from Jews or could it be a regional development from another source (Neolithic, Steppe etc).

SUPREEEEEME
10-19-2020, 01:44 PM
I see a lot of Eastern and Central European flags on https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L210/, do you think the J-L210 branches in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Poland and Germany are of Jewish origin (at least for the paternal haplogroup)? mine could hypothetically be J-Y81401, as it's found on those two people from my paternal ancestry's region (now called Ivano-Frankivsk). could it gotten to Hutsuls/Rusyns from Jews or could it be a regional development from another source (Neolithic, Steppe etc).

To my understanding, all the branches under J-Y15223 are Jewish. But I'm not as knowledgeable about this clade as my own.

Principe
10-19-2020, 01:52 PM
I see a lot of Eastern and Central European flags on https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L210/, do you think the J-L210 branches in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Poland and Germany are of Jewish origin (at least for the paternal haplogroup)? mine could hypothetically be J-Y81401, as it's found on those two people from my paternal ancestry's region (now called Ivano-Frankivsk). could it gotten to Hutsuls/Rusyns from Jews or could it be a regional development from another source (Neolithic, Steppe etc).

Devadatta, yes all of the flags you see under J-Y15223 are Ashkenazi. There does seem to ethnic Ukrainians and Russians under J-L210, which company have you tested with?

Devadatta
10-19-2020, 02:22 PM
Devadatta, yes all of the flags you see under J-Y15223 are Ashkenazi. There does seem to ethnic Ukrainians and Russians under J-L210, which company have you tested with?

tested with 23andme back in 2011. I don't know my subclade, I only know it is something under J-L210 because I've got negative calls for the other two sub-branches of J-M67. paternal side is Ukrainian (Carpathian Rusnak / Hutsul, how you want to call it) with recent Polish and possibly German ancestry (our village was populated by Orthodox Ukrainians and Lutheran Germans until WW1, but as only few Germans stayed, now it is exclusively Ukrainian, ethnically). I myself am mixed, though, as mom is West Moldovan (mt DNA H14b)

Principe
10-19-2020, 02:40 PM
tested with 23andme back in 2011. I don't know my subclade, I only know it is something under J-L210 because I've got negative calls for the other two sub-branches of J-M67. paternal side is Ukrainian (Carpathian Rusnak / Hutsul, how you want to call it) with recent Polish and possibly German ancestry (our village was populated by Orthodox Ukrainians and Lutheran Germans until WW1, but as only few Germans stayed, now it is exclusively Ukrainian, ethnically). I myself am mixed, though, as mom is West Moldovan (mt DNA H14b)

Thanks for the response, by other two branches you mean Z7671 and Z500? There is 3 sub branches under Z467, have you checked S11842? There is one SK1336 Ukrainian, there probably is some under S21160/Z6271, but odds are L210, there is a bit of presence in the area, I suggest transferring to ftdna and order a Y37 test.

alchemist223
10-19-2020, 02:53 PM
Interestingly, this is one of the haplogroups that pops up in some European gentiles as well as Ashkenazi Jews, mostly from different branches. Some carriers maybe descendants of Jewish converts to Christianity, however. I suspect the origins of this haplogroup are in the Caucasus, with it being found in the Chalcolithic/Early Bronze Age site of Arslantepe in Turkey.

maroco
10-19-2020, 10:10 PM
Interestingly, this is one of the haplogroups that pops up in some European gentiles as well as Ashkenazi Jews, mostly from different branches. Some carriers maybe descendants of Jewish converts to Christianity, however. I suspect the origins of this haplogroup are in the Caucasus, with it being found in the Chalcolithic/Early Bronze Age site of Arslantepe in Turkey.
I highly doubt it comes from the Caucasus considering I’m Moroccan that’s highly unlikely

alchemist223
10-19-2020, 10:15 PM
I highly doubt it comes from the Caucasus considering I’m Moroccan that’s highly unlikely

It was found in a Chalcolithic/EBA site, Arslantepe, in Turkey circa 3300 BC (ART023), and other clades of J2a-M67 have been found among the Hurrians and in the Kura-Araxes culture (both of which have ties to the Caucasus). I think that it is at least a plausible theory, if not 100% accurate. We would need to see more North African samples of J-L210 for me to conclude that it did not come from the Caucasus or perhaps Mesopotamia/Iran.

maroco
10-19-2020, 10:31 PM
It was found in a Chalcolithic/EBA site, Arslantepe, in Turkey circa 3300 BC (ART023), and other clades of J2a-M67 have been found among the Hurrians and in the Kura-Araxes culture (both of which have ties to the Caucasus). I think that it is at least a plausible theory, if not 100% accurate. We would need to see more North African samples of J-L210 for me to conclude that it did not come from the Caucasus or perhaps Mesopotamia/Iran.

It makes more sense for it to be moorish or Carthaginian considering my tmrca and the history of my region both those options are not plausible. If I had a young tmrca and I wasn’t basal then I would be fully on board with your theory

maroco
10-19-2020, 11:14 PM
Deleted

StillWater
10-19-2020, 11:23 PM
It was found in a Chalcolithic/EBA site, Arslantepe, in Turkey circa 3300 BC (ART023), and other clades of J2a-M67 have been found among the Hurrians and in the Kura-Araxes culture (both of which have ties to the Caucasus). I think that it is at least a plausible theory, if not 100% accurate. We would need to see more North African samples of J-L210 for me to conclude that it did not come from the Caucasus or perhaps Mesopotamia/Iran.

There is no conflict with a Carthaginian carrying a Hurrian lineage.

alchemist223
10-20-2020, 12:03 AM
There is no conflict with a Carthaginian carrying a Hurrian lineage.

Good point, this clade could have come from Phoenicians as well in North Africa.

J Man
10-20-2020, 01:21 AM
It was found in a Chalcolithic/EBA site, Arslantepe, in Turkey circa 3300 BC (ART023), and other clades of J2a-M67 have been found among the Hurrians and in the Kura-Araxes culture (both of which have ties to the Caucasus). I think that it is at least a plausible theory, if not 100% accurate. We would need to see more North African samples of J-L210 for me to conclude that it did not come from the Caucasus or perhaps Mesopotamia/Iran.

I don't think that there are any ancient Kura-Araxes J2a samples yet. None have shown up so far.

alchemist223
10-20-2020, 12:55 PM
I don't think that there are any ancient Kura-Araxes J2a samples yet. None have shown up so far.

Thanks for notifying me. Probably just originated somewhere in the Caucasus then.

Principe
10-20-2020, 01:12 PM
I don't think that there are any ancient Kura-Araxes J2a samples yet. None have shown up so far.

We still only have a small sample size, surely J2 existed amongst Kura Araxes, I think majority will be J2.

J Man
10-20-2020, 02:11 PM
We still only have a small sample size, surely J2 existed amongst Kura Araxes, I think majority will be J2.

That is certainly possible.

Principe
10-20-2020, 02:12 PM
That is certainly possible.

I am 100% certain J2 existed amongst Kura Araxes, it wouldn’t make sense if there wasn’t.

maroco
10-20-2020, 05:41 PM
I am 100% certain J2 existed amongst Kura Araxes, it wouldn’t make sense if there wasn’t.
Wasn’t there a Lebanese guy under Our branch of I recall

Principe
10-20-2020, 06:29 PM
Wasn’t there a Lebanese guy under Our branch of I recall

There is a Lebanese under Z447, there is a Syrian and Egyptian under L210.

maroco
10-23-2020, 05:46 PM
40575
My str matches two Ukrainians and a Russian

maroco
11-09-2020, 02:17 PM
Does anyone have any information on the sample at j-cts2282 please, it just says unknown.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-CTS2282/

Principe
11-09-2020, 02:59 PM
Does anyone have any information on the sample at j-cts2282 please, it just says unknown.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-CTS2282/

Yeah he is American from what I remember.

maroco
11-23-2020, 09:19 AM
With the new nebula data that I’ve uploaded I seem to have gotten one close match in my str matches which I had none in my Dante labs data.
41347
Found it interesting thought I would share. I’m still waiting for manual verification

maroco
01-14-2021, 08:57 PM
I had a match on 23 and me who says his fathers family is from Palermo
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