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Arch
10-23-2019, 07:22 AM
I haven't been on the FTDNA website for nearly over a year. I've been a member since 2007 or thereabouts if my memory serves me right. However, to this date, I do not have a 25-marker match. I'm curious if anybody else within DF27 has had better luck, in particular, SRY2627.

ADW_1981
10-24-2019, 12:04 AM
I haven't been on the FTDNA website for nearly over a year. I've been a member since 2007 or thereabouts if my memory serves me right. However, to this date, I do not have a 25-marker match. I'm curious if anybody else within DF27 has had better luck, in particular, SRY2627.

I don't have a 25 marker match either, my closest relative being 1000+ years by SNP, and is not within the 25 marker range to show up as a relative. Under Z209+

corner
10-24-2019, 09:40 AM
I haven't been on the FTDNA website for nearly over a year. I've been a member since 2007 or thereabouts if my memory serves me right. However, to this date, I do not have a 25-marker match. I'm curious if anybody else within DF27 has had better luck, in particular, SRY2627.708 25 marker matches (within the gd limit), 87 have Big Y but very few are DF27.

rms2
10-24-2019, 11:18 AM
Pardon me for intruding, but I thought DF27 had a lot of WAMHers in its ranks. If that's the case, I would think most of you would have a lot of lower order STR matches.

lgmayka
10-24-2019, 11:45 PM
A Ukrainian friend (from Kyiv/Kiev) belongs to R-BY653 (https://yfull.com/tree/R-BY653/)*. Rather recently, he has acquired a couple of higher-level matches who, unfortunately, have not ordered the Big Y.
- At 111 markers, match at GD 9. (English patrilineage)
- At 67 markers, match at GD 7. (Has tested 111 markers but does not appear as a match at that highest level)

Until the English match appeared, I assumed that his rare R-BY653* classification implied a very ancient Ukrainian lineage. But the highest-level English match suggests a Viking patrilineage instead. His MyOrigins actually lists
95% East Europe
3% Scandinavia
<2% Siberia
<1% Finland
<1% North and Central America (!)

corner
10-25-2019, 11:00 AM
Pardon me for intruding, but I thought DF27 had a lot of WAMHers in its ranks. If that's the case, I would think most of you would have a lot of lower order STR matches.I think it varies, but the DF27>ZZ12 subclade that I match does have a modal that is close to WAMH at 12 and 25 markers, hence more 'matches' at 25 than Arch and ADW, above. Most are STR convergence with unrelated haplotypes - mainly L21s. Luckily, convergence doesn't happen (in my experience) at 111 markers and is very rare at 67 - there is a shared off-modal pattern.

rms2
10-25-2019, 11:31 AM
I think it varies, but the DF27>ZZ12 subclade that I match does have a modal that is close to WAMH at 12 and 25 markers, hence more 'matches' at 25 than Arch and ADW, above. Most are STR convergence with unrelated haplotypes - mainly L21s. Luckily, convergence doesn't happen (in my experience) at 111 markers and is very rare at 67 - there is a shared off-modal pattern.

Since Arch mentioned the 25-marker level, that's what I meant: lower order STR matches.

I don't have the WAMH (although I'm not too far off it), but I have loads of 12 and 25-marker matches, by far most of them to men outside my own subclade. Quite a few of them are R1b-U106, as a matter of fact. At 67 markers they finally disappear.

Ric
10-30-2019, 03:08 PM
I haven't been on the FTDNA website for nearly over a year. I've been a member since 2007 or thereabouts if my memory serves me right. However, to this date, I do not have a 25-marker match. I'm curious if anybody else within DF27 has had better luck, in particular, SRY2627.

Well, if you know that you are SRY2627 you don't really need STR matches. I used to have no STR25 matches either, however, it's probably because I have some very off-modal values that gives me extremely high GD. In particular I have a single STR with an GD of 5 with the entire df27 group mode for that STR, only one another person in the entire df27 group has this value. Needless to say that it disqualifies me to match 99% of the testers and depending on when that STR mutation occurred, I may not even match my own great great grandfather. Which is absurd. Me not being an STR25 match with my own gggrandfather should not disqualify me, it should disqualify the test, or call for better algorithms.
Anyways, the advantage of the DF27 group is that you can see the modal values for all STR and at one point, there was a third party site at FTDNA which allowed you to transfer your Y-STR values, and even enter your own values as a fake kit. This is what I did, I entered a fake kit with modal values to replace my own very off-modal STR and MIRACLE, I matches pretty much everybody under CTS4065 at STR-25 level.
Therefore, if it wasn't for these annoying off modal mutations, I roughly evaluated that I would match everybody under CTS4065 (a ~3000 years old subclade) at the STR 25 level, instead of nobody in real life. It's all or nothing.

Bottom line, this STR thing works well for you ONLY if your lineage has not experienced a catastrophic slippage of the DNA polymerase that introduced a crazy off modal value in the number of short tandem repeats, in which case you should not expect to match anybody, it won't happen.

You may be in a similar situation, Arch, you may have a crazy off modal STR, and if it wasn't for that, you would match pretty much everybody under SRY2627 at the STR25 level. Matching everybody or matching nobody is equally uninformative anyways, except for the fact that having a STR match gives you an email contact and perhaps some family names in the event that this person gets close to you in the block tree, yet is too far in terms of SNPs to qualify as a BigY match. When that happens and the person doesn't want to join the SNP group, the person is invisible to you and the group admin. But if this anonymous is at least a STR match, you get a way to contact him.

razyn
10-30-2019, 04:06 PM
I haven't responded on this thread because the obvious answer is "of course."

But more abstractly, ric is probably correct that Arch has some off-modal STR value (in the first 25). It's also likely that his matches, when they do turn up, will turn up in France (or in some other under-tested population).

In my case, having four off-modal values in the first twelve STR markers gave me very few matches -- but the ones I have, even at 12 markers, are almost always members of my subclade of CTS4065, well out on a specific branch of the DF27 tree. The "matching" software used by FTDNA doesn't account for a RecLOH event at DYS385ab, that gives us four steps of "genetic distance" (and we have two other off-modals) in the first twelve. So the cheapest STR test they sell, at 12 markers, turns up most members of our YDNA subclade. Then the colorized YDNA results can fine-tune that for the recent, in-family branches.

That sword cuts two ways. We find them cheaply -- but then they don't want to spend any serious money refining what we know. So the deeper probing about SNPs, their ages and origins, is left to a few people who actually care enough to spend what it costs to determine that. We're doing a decent job of it, taking a few years rather than a few decades to go from a few SNPs refining the same part of P312* to a few thousand SNPs downstream of DF27. Genetic genealogy is advancing very rapidly; it just always seems slow to one guy waiting for one match -- or for the results of one NextGen test, that had to be redone with a fresh sample.