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DeVerbno
10-23-2019, 05:19 PM
Hello!
It can already be seen that the “northern” cluster E-BY4526 has formed in the group E-CTS9320 on FTDNA Block Tree. It looks like we have a branch that separated from CTS9320, somewhere closer to Northern Europe
Tell your opinion on the possibility of such events

E-BY4526 includes:

E-S10743 (Hungary and the unknown)
E-BY4540 (Sweden and the unknown)
E-BY34308 (two Germany and the unknown)
E-BY4543 (two France)
E-BY4523 (Sweden and Bulgaria)
E-BY4529 (Sweden)
E-BY4557, E-BY4551 (three Poland-Russia)
E-BY4526* (Sweden)

Total 16 participants

At the next recount of the Yfull tree, the administration promised to add BY4526 on the Yfull tree, which may lead to a recount of TMRCA

In the part of Sweden at Yfull I definitely see only 2 people and I don’t know how the rest are represented.
If someone E-BY4526 is reading this thread, please post the data to Yfull
It will be interesting

Laszczynski (Polish-Russian cluster)

DeVerbno
10-25-2019, 08:38 AM
In addition, it should be noted that in Russia there is E-V13 associated with Scandinavian expansion

1. Yaroslav Osmomysl
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Osmomysl
http://forum.molgen.org/index.php?topic=10710.0

2. Viceroy, leader of the Scandinavian-Slavic squad (Krivichs, Kryvichs, Kryvičý) of a settlement in Bolshevo (tumulus (kurgan) fields 11-12 century), where there was a transit point on Klyazma
http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,1114.msg464279.html#msg464279

Johane Derite
10-25-2019, 02:26 PM
In addition, it should be noted that in Russia there is E-V13 associated with Scandinavian expansion

1. Yaroslav Osmomysl
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Osmomysl
http://forum.molgen.org/index.php?topic=10710.0

2. Viceroy, leader of the Scandinavian-Slavic squad (Krivichs, Kryvichs, Kryvičý) of a settlement in Bolshevo (tumulus (kurgan) fields 11-12 century), where there was a transit point on Klyazma
http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,1114.msg464279.html#msg464279

Interesting. Is it true that EV13 is the only clade that is common to all IE speaking groups?

DeVerbno
10-25-2019, 03:14 PM
I think another part of E-V22 spoke IE languages, but E-V13 arose and began expansion already in Europe and they IE

LostJaworski
05-20-2021, 05:08 PM
Hello DeVerbno,

I was contacted a couple months ago about my Jaworski ancestry. An autosomal match referred me to this family tree regarding my Paternal Y-DNA ancestry.

http://bogdan-yavorskij.ru/yavorskie-gerba-sas-9?fbclid=IwAR3HkLWA_vB3d_-jkYXqrxw1ZhhnPfkA-F7gF3ExsonkVpQoDBq_L82NmFI

My father Jaworski took the Y DNA test afterwards, DNA kit IN97977:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/POL-LITHNOBILITY?iframe=yresults

My autosomal match claims that I am in the subclade E-CTS9320 and that the surnames at this level are Laszczynski and Mozarowski. I'm new at this but I was wondering what your opinion is on this. I am aware the Y-DNA test I took doesn't test for E-CTS9320.

DeVerbno
05-20-2021, 08:49 PM
Hi, LostJaworski!
I see you in the project
This is very interesting and important!
Tomorrow I will compare our haplotypes, try to understand the distance between us
I see that the Jaworski come from the Sas coat of arms, and this is normal when there are different subclades among the coat of arms, as well as among the same surname
Please join this project
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/sas-y-dna/dna-results

DeVerbno
05-21-2021, 09:30 AM
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/POL-LITHNOBILITY?iframe=yresults

We're very close
Comparing with my haplotype, I see 5 differences
DYS385 I have 16-18
DYS449 I have 32
DYS464 I have 14-16-16-17
DYS456 I have 17
DYS570 I have 20
And with my 4th cousine 4 differences, DYS570 he also has 21

Compared with Mozharovski, also 5 steps
DYS19 at Theodore 14
DYS385 at Theodore 16-18, like mine
DYS449 Theodore has 32 like mine
DYS464 at Theodore 15-16-16-17
DYS456 at Theodore 17 just like mine

Bane
05-22-2021, 12:40 PM
Hi DeVerbno,
If you are interested you could join this project: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/e-cts9320

DeVerbno
05-23-2021, 05:46 AM
I am in a group, but it has not been updated for a long time

Bane
05-23-2021, 07:20 AM
I am in a group, but it has not been updated for a long time

I apologize but I don't understand. What has not been updated?
(also I don't notice any BY4526+ Russians in the group)

DeVerbno
05-23-2021, 11:08 AM
There are already several separate clusters under BY4526+
The Russians in the group are me, my father, my distant brother. Ukrainian Mozharovsky
But we are not indicating the location according to the current place of residence?

Bane
05-23-2021, 11:28 AM
There are already several separate clusters under BY4526+
The Russians in the group are me, my father, my distant brother. Ukrainian Mozharovsky
But we are not indicating the location according to the current place of residence?


Now I understand. Thanks. I've updated the BY4526+/Z37530+ group. Further suggestions are welcome.

DeVerbno
05-23-2021, 11:51 AM
Thanks! ��

BukeKrypEZemer
05-25-2021, 09:24 AM
Lets fill the thread with life!
The clade is currently divided in three subclades - E-BY4529; E-BY4552; E-S10743

E-BY4529 has following split according to FTDNA:
44795

According to YFull, the TMRCA is around 3100 ybp. We see density of the clade in the Balkans, Central Europe, and Scandinavia.

BukeKrypEZemer
05-25-2021, 09:29 AM
Moreover we have E-BY4552:

44796

Here, we have a Eastern Europe density that is pretty considerable. The Polish people have a common ancestor according to Yfull around 425 ybp, the whole TMRCA is 475 ybp (including the sample from Ukraine). This clade was formed 3100 ybp.

BukeKrypEZemer
05-25-2021, 10:19 AM
The other subclade is E-S10743:

44800

On Yfull, there is addtionally a sample E-S10743* from South of Albania. In this group there is also another guy from South Albania, not listed in the tree, with Vlach origin.

44801

Time of the MRCA is 3100 ybp as well, the question is there the sample from Austria in FTDNA would end up. Northern Balkans looks as possible origin point, this might explain the spread... However, if there are things to be added, considered, feel free.

LostJaworski
05-29-2021, 09:56 PM
Hi DeVebno,

I attempted to join the Sas project that you suggested shortly after receiving my Y-DNA results however my admission is still pending. I will email the administrator with my request to join again. I'm glad that you see the connection to our Y-DNA relationship. I don't have the technical understanding myself to understand the connection but will try to learn.

DeVerbno
05-31-2021, 09:44 AM
Excellent! Let's wait for the project administrator. But you need to start thinking about ordering BigY)
Thank you!

DeVerbno
05-31-2021, 09:50 AM
Now I understand. Thanks. I've updated the BY4526+/Z37530+ group. Further suggestions are welcome.
Hello!
You can see the mail of all members of E-BY4526
Could you please write to them to download their VCF files (free) and upload them for interpretation to Yfull for $50?

LostJaworski
06-03-2021, 02:50 PM
Excellent! Let's wait for the project administrator. But you need to start thinking about ordering BigY)
Thank you!

I can't afford it right now but I am a bit curious. The Y-DNA test my father took only produced one match. A man in France who did not know his paternal Grandfather. I'm hoping with time I will have at least 1 more match on my Y-DNA kit.

Is this the the Mozhayski branch that is a distant clade from my Jaworski branch?

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~mozhayski/genealogy/teksty/genmoz.html

and the main site:

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~mozhayski/genealogy/?fbclid=IwAR2rE7vSX2JW9zYl0Y2fAm0dpGPWl22k1IyqHlzb Z0JYc-gLZPzjHhibjC0


Also, do you have any distant Laszczynski family tree or information that you could share?

DeVerbno
06-03-2021, 04:46 PM
I have a tree on myheritage and a forum thread on molgen (in Russian). But there you can write in English, we will understand)
https://forum.molgen.org/index.php?topic=6242.0

LostJaworski
06-04-2021, 07:43 PM
Very interesting read, I was unable to join this forum due to the question regarding Charles Darwin's birthday. Is the answer not "1809"? That was the one criteria blocking me from joining

DeVerbno
06-06-2021, 01:18 PM
1809 is correct. Can you try again? There may be another question

LostJaworski
06-16-2021, 04:43 PM
The question to the forum changed to asking about the battle of Kulikovo and I successfully registered. I posted in your thread, restating what was posted here

DeVerbno
06-17-2021, 05:53 AM
Thank you! I already answered in your forum thread)

Hazmatnik
06-22-2021, 11:03 PM
Current situation under E-Y20805.
Since Greek guy didnt want to go to YFull, and he is + for E-BY4573 but not E-BY4570 i made some adjustments to graphic, used subbranch FTDNA put Bulgarian into, but YFULL new age estimates. Also added family legends of people i'm familiar with. With every new update, TMRCA for 20805 is going up, which is interesting. One of my suspect is some relation with Scandinavian bronze age, somehow, but there are still too few samples to make any conclusion. Whatever happened after, i try to look at E-CTS9320 story first.

45259

BukeKrypEZemer
07-22-2021, 01:02 PM
A new guy appeared on level E-Y20805* (Yfull). He did not set nationality, anyone an idea how we can get to know this? He does not answer on private messages so far.
Moreover, a guy from Bosnia did E-V13 Panel. Last status is E-Y20805*.

BukeKrypEZemer
07-28-2021, 04:18 PM
Update: the guy is from US with paternal ancestry from Abruzzo in Italy..!

Hazmatnik
09-08-2021, 03:35 PM
Looks like Swede and Italian will form new subclade E-BY4543.

Italian more precise origins are from Chieti.

Unlike other 4526 subclades, we only have people south of the Danube and Scandinavians for now.

BukeKrypEZemer
09-09-2021, 07:23 AM
Moreover, test from a Bosnian guy from Sarajevo will be soon in progress. His E-V13 Panel in YSEQ placed him E-Y20805*.

Farroukh
10-31-2021, 01:46 PM
In addition, it should be noted that in Russia there is E-V13 associated with Scandinavian expansion
2. Viceroy, leader of the Scandinavian-Slavic squad (Krivichs, Kryvichs, Kryvičý) of a settlement in Bolshevo (tumulus (kurgan) fields 11-12 century), where there was a transit point on Klyazma
http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,1114.msg464279.html#msg464279

S.Z. Chernov, N.N. Goncharova, V.I. Merkulov, A.S. Semenov. Test results of Y-DNA haplogroup for the medieval Slavic burial of the 12th century near Zagoryansky settlement on the Upper Klyazma (Moscow region) (https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/rezultaty-testirovaniya-gaplogruppy-y-dnk-dlya-srednevekovogo-slavyanskogo-zahoroneniya-xii-v-v-okrestnostyah-poselka-zagoryanskiy-na/viewer)

The aim of the study was to test the Y-DNA haplogroup of the Slavic early medieval burial of the ground Bolshevo-1 (near Zagoryansky settlement) on the Klyazma river, to consider its possible analogues in other samples of medieval Slavic DNA and to give a historical, archaeological, anthropological, and genetic interpretation of the result. The data show that the individual belongs to the haplogroup E1b1b, which indicates the participation of the Danube component in the ethnogenesis of this group of the Krivichs, which came from the Upper Volga and the Novgorod-Smolensk border.

Haplotype:
DYS393 4
DYS19 13
DYS391 10
DYS439 12
DYS389-I 13
DYS392 11
DYS389-II 28
DYS456 15
DYS438 10

Predicted 81% E-S2979 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-S2979/)

Riverman
10-31-2021, 05:43 PM
which indicates the participation of the Danube component in the ethnogenesis of this group of the Krivichs

That's of course speculative, because they don't know how it ended up there. Its just evidence of its presence in the local Slavic tribes at that point in time.

Bruzmi
10-31-2021, 11:54 PM
That's of course speculative, because they don't know how it ended up there. Its just evidence of its presence in the local Slavic tribes at that point in time.

It's not just speculative because we do know historically that people from the Balkans migrated to the north.

Riverman
11-01-2021, 12:39 AM
It's not just speculative because we do know historically that people from the Balkans migrated to the north.

Yes, but you don't have a label on this particular lineage and individual. Its one reasonable option out of many at this point. But far more likely is of course, even if there was backflow and he would be a proof for it, that he came from Pannonia-Middle Danube or Bohemia-Poland and the like rather than the Balkans, though both is possible of course. We have now a couple of E-V13 finds in Eastern Germany-Poland-Czechia in a Slavic context (Usedom, LIB11, Krakauer Berg, etc.). So there was definitely something going on in the West Slavic area, from which people it came in the 6th-8th century is not known of course. Could be initial Slavic dispersal or local pick ups, but unlikely they all took the route from the Balkan to Central-Eastern and Northern Germany.

LostJaworski
11-06-2021, 11:58 PM
Greetings,

I’m stating my Y-DNA origins as I currently understand them. My deepest level of testing is currently at 37-Markers. My haplogroup is E-V13. I am quite possibly categorized as a E-Z5017 -> E-CTS9320. I currently can’t afford BigY but plan to in the future.

My surname is Jaworski. My paper trail only takes me to a great grandfather Wincenty Jaworski. There is autosomal evidence that I may be related to a Konstantin Jaworski to which his family tree starts at a Joseph Jaworski that passed away in 1747 in Poland, Joseph Jaworski’s coat of arms is the SAS coat of arms.

It is possible that joseph Jaworski branch is descended from a man named Vanchu Volkh (a few spelling variations may exist such as Wanczaluch or Vancha Voloshin). Vanchu has been depicted as a count from Hungary. Vanchu died in 1444, so I only guess his birth may have been around 1400 AD. In 1431 he was granted 3 villages for his war effort. The village of Yavor is where my surname comes from starting from a son of Vanchu named Zanka (sometimes spelled or translated as Zhank or Yanko). In 1431, the surname Jaworski is noted under the coat of arms of SAS, without a first name.

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AF%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0_(%D0%9B%D1%8C%D0%B2 %D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BE%D0%B1% D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C)

In 1444, Vanchu dies after the defeat in the battle of Varna.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Varna

To summarize my opinion on my Y-DNA branch, it is possible that in the early 1400’s my Y branch was in Hungary and then travelled to the Village of Yavor in 1431 and then to Poland. I also acknowledge the multiple breaks in my proposed lineage. At best, I will attempt to gain paper trail or autosomal evidence identifying generations before my great grandfather Wincenty Jaworski. As well, I can notify of any updates on Y-DNA matches until BigY becomes affordable to me.

Riverman
11-07-2021, 12:15 AM
Greetings,

I’m stating my Y-DNA origins as I currently understand them. My deepest level of testing is currently at 37-Markers. My haplogroup is E-V13. I am quite possibly categorized as a E-Z5017 -> E-CTS9320. I currently can’t afford BigY but plan to in the future.

My surname is Jaworski. My paper trail only takes me to a great grandfather Wincenty Jaworski. There is autosomal evidence that I may be related to a Konstantin Jaworski to which his family tree starts at a Joseph Jaworski that passed away in 1747 in Poland, Joseph Jaworski’s coat of arms is the SAS coat of arms.

It is possible that joseph Jaworski branch is descended from a man named Vanchu Volkh (a few spelling variations may exist such as Wanczaluch or Vancha Voloshin). Vanchu has been depicted as a count from Hungary. Vanchu died in 1444, so I only guess his birth may have been around 1400 AD. In 1431 he was granted 3 villages for his war effort. The village of Yavor is where my surname comes from starting from a son of Vanchu named Zanka (sometimes spelled or translated as Zhank or Yanko). In 1431, the surname Jaworski is noted under the coat of arms of SAS, without a first name.

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AF%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0_(%D0%9B%D1%8C%D0%B2 %D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BE%D0%B1% D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C)

In 1444, Vanchu dies after the defeat in the battle of Varna.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Varna

To summarize my opinion on my Y-DNA branch, it is possible that in the early 1400’s my Y branch was in Hungary and then travelled to the Village of Yavor in 1431 and then to Poland. I also acknowledge the multiple breaks in my proposed lineage. At best, I will attempt to gain paper trail or autosomal evidence identifying generations before my great grandfather Wincenty Jaworski. As well, I can notify of any updates on Y-DNA matches until BigY becomes affordable to me.

A lot is possible. Hungarians, Germans, Croats, they all could end up as far as Finland and Latvia. Your branch is not safe and very basal, so there can't be said a lot about it. Autosomal DNA will only help up to some point, because for more distant ancestry, it won't really help. Not even autosomal matches might give a clue, though its possible of course.

Under E-CTS9320 there are on FTDNA a lot of people from different regions and ethnicities, including, and strongly represented, from Germany, Hungary, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria. Top countries are:

Germany 10 36 36 13.43%
Albania 2 17 17 6.34%
Bulgaria 6 16 16 5.97%
Poland 4 14 14 5.22%
Italy 2 14 14 5.22%
England 2 13 13 4.85%
Hungary 5 12 12 4.48%
United States 3 12 12 4.48%
Greece 4 10 10 3.73%
Russian Federation 2 9 9 3.36%

As you can see, without deeper testing, a lot is possible in theory and what's real is hard to tell. For an E-V13 branch, Poland is fairly well represented, that's obvious.

Bane
11-07-2021, 11:30 PM
I’m stating my Y-DNA origins as I currently understand them. My deepest level of testing is currently at 37-Markers. My haplogroup is E-V13. I am quite possibly categorized as a E-Z5017 -> E-CTS9320.

If you've tested at FTDNA you can consider joining E-CTS9320 project: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/e-cts9320/

Bruzmi
11-08-2021, 11:34 AM
It is possible that joseph Jaworski branch is descended from a man named Vanchu Volkh (a few spelling variations may exist such as Wanczaluch or Vancha Voloshin). Vanchu has been depicted as a count from Hungary. Vanchu died in 1444, so I only guess his birth may have been around 1400 AD.

The name Volkh indicates a likely Vlach/Romanian origin which many people had in medieval Hungary. The Hunyadi family (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunyadi_family) are the most famous such house in Hungarian nobility.

Andrei Brezianu, Vlad Spânu (2007), Historical Dictionary of Moldova:

https://i.ibb.co/G0Tm1q5/volokh.png

Further testing will help you find more information.

Dorkymon
11-08-2021, 12:07 PM
It is possible that joseph Jaworski branch is descended from a man named Vanchu Volkh (

Vanciu is a Romanian surname, characteristic of the mountainous Maramures region (specifically seems to be characteristic (https://www.abonati.me/index.php?abonat=vanciu&judet=&localitate=&x=0&y=0#rezultate) for the village of Farcasa (https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comuna_F%C4%83rca%C8%99a,_Maramure%C8%99)), and a rarer forename. As others explained, Volkh/Volo(k)h might refer to Vlachs.

https://forebears.io/surnames/vanciu
https://forebears.io/x/forenames/vanciu

LostJaworski
12-06-2021, 11:39 PM
S.Z. Chernov, N.N. Goncharova, V.I. Merkulov, A.S. Semenov. Test results of Y-DNA haplogroup for the medieval Slavic burial of the 12th century near Zagoryansky settlement on the Upper Klyazma (Moscow region) (https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/rezultaty-testirovaniya-gaplogruppy-y-dnk-dlya-srednevekovogo-slavyanskogo-zahoroneniya-xii-v-v-okrestnostyah-poselka-zagoryanskiy-na/viewer)

The aim of the study was to test the Y-DNA haplogroup of the Slavic early medieval burial of the ground Bolshevo-1 (near Zagoryansky settlement) on the Klyazma river, to consider its possible analogues in other samples of medieval Slavic DNA and to give a historical, archaeological, anthropological, and genetic interpretation of the result. The data show that the individual belongs to the haplogroup E1b1b, which indicates the participation of the Danube component in the ethnogenesis of this group of the Krivichs, which came from the Upper Volga and the Novgorod-Smolensk border.

Haplotype:
DYS393 4
DYS19 13
DYS391 10
DYS439 12
DYS389-I 13
DYS392 11
DYS389-II 28
DYS456 15
DYS438 10

Predicted 81% E-S2979 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-S2979/)

How might my fathers Y DNA results compare to the Krivichs sample:

Krivich Haplotype - LostJawoski Haplotype
DYS393 4 / 13
DYS19 13 / 13
DYS391 10 / 10
DYS439 12 / 12
DYS389-I 13 / 13
DYS392 11 / 11
DYS389-II 28 / 30
DYS456 15 / 15
DYS438 10 / 10

As already stated, I would require a further level of testing for a more accurate interpretation of my Y-DNA clade or however it is worded.

I notice that I have two differences in my Y-STR values. This is my first time comparing my Y results on my own.

DYS393 differs from 4 to 13
DYS389-II differs from 28 to 30

Does that point to a genetic difference of 11? (9 on DYS393 and 2 on DYS389-II).

I'm not sure what the expected Y-STR value range is of an E-V13 is, like if there is stereotypical values for specific markers. However I would guess that my difference on the DYS393 is fairly large when compared to this sample.

Farroukh
12-07-2021, 02:50 AM
DYS393=14 (not 4, typo, sorry)
https://a.radikal.ru/a02/2112/e3/a3805ea11293.jpg (https://radikal.ru)

LostJaworski
12-11-2021, 02:53 AM
The name Volkh indicates a likely Vlach/Romanian origin which many people had in medieval Hungary. The Hunyadi family (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunyadi_family) are the most famous such house in Hungarian nobility.



Sorry I'm Off topic from E-CTS9320 but it is interesting to note that the remains of John Hunyadi's Grandson and great grandson (Male line), John Cornvinus and Christopher Cornvinus may have been found. Apparently, the remains might be planned to be DNA tested.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Corvinus

https://hungarytoday.hu/experts-establish-hungarian-royal-familys-dna-profile-hunyadi-matthias/

I wonder if this is a true news story and what the DNA results would be

Hazmatnik
02-12-2022, 11:49 AM
E-Y20805 got new member from E Bosnia.
He is with Swede and Italian from Abruzzo (he didnt pay so his result was removed) under E-BY4543.
On FTDNA he has one German.

48419

Hazmatnik
05-23-2022, 02:55 PM
Our subclade makes great progress this year. I added info on samples without flags. There is also Greek on FTDNA under E-BY4573.

https://i.postimg.cc/QMhd4q70/Untitled-1.jpg (https://postimg.cc/v42yDf3V)

GashGubetin
05-24-2022, 06:07 AM
Additionally the Italian guy from Abruzzo sharing a common ancestor with the bosnian in 900 ybp

Hazmatnik
06-04-2022, 04:50 PM
We got new guy im trying to reach. He did 23 markers in Belgrade lab.
He is from village of Šlegovo, near Kratovo in North Macedonia and he most likely belongs to our E-BY148067 clade. We have same slava too.

Hazmatnik
06-04-2022, 05:54 PM
We got new guy im trying to reach. He did 23 markers in Belgrade lab.
He is from village of Šlegovo, near Kratovo in North Macedonia and he most likely belongs to our E-BY148067 clade. We have same slava too.

Unfortunately he is not interested in further testing. However he is identical on 23 markers with recently tested Serb from Ivanjica.

GashGubetin
06-14-2022, 03:38 PM
I wanted to share a new member in E-BY4526. The guy is Greek, no idea yet where exactly from, but he is forming another subclade now as E-BY4564. Out of 4 subclades from E-BY4526, we know have 3 with members from the Balkans.

Riverman
06-14-2022, 04:08 PM
I wanted to share a new member in E-BY4526. The guy is Greek, no idea yet where exactly from, but he is forming another subclade now as E-BY4564. Out of 4 subclades from E-BY4526, we know have 3 with members from the Balkans.

His subclade is very old and next to him are Poles in a separate subbranch. Looks fairly old, dating back to the initial spread of the LBA-EIA/Channelled Ware. Interesting Greek branch indeed.

Hazmatnik
07-02-2022, 04:34 PM
Admixture decomposition map of E-Y20805 Avars by ph2ter


https://i.postimg.cc/jd8HQG0R/WG8Ny4k.png (https://postimg.cc/QHTKjYdz)

https://i.postimg.cc/2yrQ2YSS/JPBiyjr.png (https://postimg.cc/gXtL2fhC)

https://i.postimg.cc/ht6VNTtw/yTQMmWr.png (https://postimg.cc/zywLgLWS)

FTDNA estimate for E-BY4573, where OBT51 and OBT106 belongs

https://i.postimg.cc/nhJXm2Mn/Untitled-1.jpg (https://postimg.cc/crF1yQQz)

We will have to wait for YFULL update, subclade had significant changes there.

Riverman
07-02-2022, 07:21 PM
The Avar samples are likely to have come from Carpathian-Western steppe uptakes of the Avars, but there is also yet another option, namely that they have an origin from the far Eastern steppe:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18885-A-theory-about-the-origin-of-E-V13&p=858774&viewfull=1#post858774

E-ETC9320 was found in a, what I think Sogdian, burial from Kasakhstan. So the spread with steppe people, from the Carpathian-Western steppe sphere, already suggested by the relatively strong presence of Pannonian subclades of E-V13 in Western-Northern China, especially those areas with a lot of R1a/Z93 of the Iranian speakers, being now practically proven.
This could also mean, that the Avars could have picked up E-V13 carrying Iranians much further to the East than the Western steppe.

Hazmatnik
07-02-2022, 07:43 PM
The Avar samples are likely to have come from Carpathian-Western steppe uptakes of the Avars, but there is also yet another option, namely that they have an origin from the far Eastern steppe:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18885-A-theory-about-the-origin-of-E-V13&p=858774&viewfull=1#post858774

E-ETC9320 was found in a, what I think Sogdian, burial from Kasakhstan. So the spread with steppe people, from the Carpathian-Western steppe sphere, already suggested by the relatively strong presence of Pannonian subclades of E-V13 in Western-Northern China, especially those areas with a lot of R1a/Z93 of the Iranian speakers, being now practically proven.
This could also mean, that the Avars could have picked up E-V13 carrying Iranians much further to the East than the Western steppe.

But as of now modern distribution of E-Y 20805 and downstream clades only support Carpathian theory maybe.

Riverman
07-02-2022, 07:57 PM
But as of now modern distribution of E-Y 20805 and downstream clades only support Carpathian theory maybe.

Yes, its the more likely scenario, Carpathian-Northern Balkan, probably from Belegis II-Gáva, along the Danube. Its easier to see some Pannonian subclades to move East than the other way around.

Hazmatnik
07-04-2022, 08:44 PM
YFULL updated its tree, E-BY4573 is now significantly older, as expected.

Estimations for new branch E-BY4566 with Bulgarian and Romanian are now: formed 2100 ybp, TMRCA 1200 ybp

https://i.postimg.cc/Z5BZvs8V/4573.jpg (https://postimg.cc/4Ygjr5F9)