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madmjl2181
10-26-2019, 12:00 AM
I am hoping to gain some insight regarding my mother's 23&me/Gedmatch results. From what I can tell, and from what I have been told, she shifts quite significantly toward North Africa, perhaps even more so than other Sicilians do. A little background: my mother was born in Castelbouno, Sicily, a town in the Madonie region of central Sicily. Her father was from Castelbouno while her mother was from Tomasso Natale, Palermo, Sicily. As I have mentioned in other posts, although I am not sure this is relevant per se, my mother, along with my grandfather and aunt, matches with people of 100% Levantine background on both 23&me and Gedmatch, though very distantly. At any rate, I was hoping to spark a discussion regarding her results. I would be happy to share her kit as well. I have put in bold some things that stand out to me. Her results are as follows:

MDLP K16:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 34.9
2 Neolithic 27.53
3 Steppe 12.83
4 NearEast 9.31
5 NorthAfrican 6.96
6 NorthEastEuropean 6.02
7 Oceanic 2.03
8 Indian 0.42

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian (Sicily) 5.57
2 Italian (SouthItaly) 5.62
3 Maltese (Malta) 6.4
4 Jew (Italian) 6.43
5 Jew (Ashkenazi) 6.51
6 Jew (Ashkenazim) 6.53
7 Italian (Abruzzo) 6.56
8 Jew (Algeria) 6.6
9 Jew (Bulgaria) 6.71
10 Jew (Turkey) 7.12
11 Jew (Belmonte) 7.6
12 Jew (Sephardim) 7.93
13 Jew (Morocco) 8.2
14 Jew (Ashkenazi) 8.46
15 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 8.81
16 Greek (Peloponnes) 9.59
17 Greek (Greece) 9.64
18 Greek (Athens) 9.77
19 Albanian (Albania) 10.68
20 Greek (Macedonia) 10.73

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.7% Jew (Turkey) + 13.3% Basque (France) @ 3.29
2 84.6% Jew (Turkey) + 15.4% French (SouthFrance) @ 3.33
3 73.4% Jew (Algeria) + 26.6% Italian (Bergamo) @ 3.38
4 81.3% Jew (Turkey) + 18.7% Spanish (Aragon) @ 3.41
5 83.6% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) + 16.4% Basque (France) @ 3.5
6 82.9% Jew (Algeria) + 17.1% Spanish (Aragon) @ 3.53
7 86.1% Jew (Algeria) + 13.9% French (SouthFrance) @ 3.54
8 88.5% Jew (Italian) + 11.5% Basque (France) @ 3.56
9 78.7% Jew (Turkey) + 21.3% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 3.61
10 88.2% Jew (Algeria) + 11.8% Basque (France) @ 3.62
11 86.7% Jew (Italian) + 13.3% French (SouthFrance) @ 3.68
12 80.6% Jew (Algeria) + 19.4% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 3.69
13 68.9% Jew (Algeria) + 31.1% Corsican (Corsica) @ 3.81
14 79.7% Jew (Algeria) + 20.3% Spanish (Spain) @ 3.84
15 82.7% Jew (Algeria) + 17.3% French (France) @ 3.85
16 88.3% Jew (Bulgaria) + 11.7% Basque (France) @ 3.88
17 72.4% Jew (Turkey) + 27.6% Italian (Bergamo) @ 3.99
18 62.6% Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) + 37.4% Spanish (Aragon) @ 4.01
19 77.5% Jew (Algeria) + 22.5% Provencal (Provence) @ 4.02
20 82.2% Jew (Algeria) + 17.8% German (Germany) @ 4.08



MDLP K23:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.78
2 European_Early_Farmers 22.33
3 Near_East 10.83
4 North_African 10.74
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 8.24
6 South_Central_Asian 6.59
7 East_Siberian 1.29
8 Austronesian 1.22
9 East_African 0.5
10 Melano_Polynesian 0.43
11 South_Indian 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 French_Jew ( ) 3.19
2 Italian_Jew ( ) 4.14
3 Sicilian_East ( ) 4.37
4 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 4.43
5 Turk_Jew ( ) 4.8
6 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 5.18
7 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 6
8 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 6.2
9 Ashkenazi ( ) 6.33
10 Maltese ( ) 6.42
11 Moroccan_Jew ( ) 6.74
12 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 7.44
13 Sicilian_West ( ) 7.59
14 Romanian_Jew ( ) 7.92
15 Tunisian_Jew ( ) 8.45
16 Cretan ( ) 8.68
17 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 8.83
18 Sicilian_Center ( ) 9.14
19 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 9.19
20 Libyan_Jew ( ) 9.41

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96.4% Sicilian_East ( ) + 3.6% Mozabite ( ) @ 2.73
2 95.7% French_Jew ( ) + 4.3% Kabardin ( ) @ 2.8
3 84.7% Maltese ( ) + 15.3% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) @ 2.81
4 95.8% French_Jew ( ) + 4.2% Tabassaran ( ) @ 2.81
5 95.9% French_Jew ( ) + 4.1% Lak ( ) @ 2.83
6 96% French_Jew ( ) + 4% Lezgin ( ) @ 2.83
7 95.8% French_Jew ( ) + 4.2% Circassian ( ) @ 2.83
8 96% French_Jew ( ) + 4% Avar ( ) @ 2.84
9 95.1% French_Jew ( ) + 4.9% Uzbek_Tashkent ( ) @ 2.84
10 87.1% French_Jew ( ) + 12.9% Syrian_Jew ( ) @ 2.84
11 94.8% French_Jew ( ) + 5.2% Azeri ( ) @ 2.85
12 94.3% French_Jew ( ) + 5.7% Iraqi_Mandean ( ) @ 2.85
13 95.7% French_Jew ( ) + 4.3% Kumyk ( ) @ 2.85
14 95.3% French_Jew ( ) + 4.7% Nogai ( ) @ 2.85
15 96.1% French_Jew ( ) + 3.9% Dargin_Urkarah ( ) @ 2.85
16 95.8% French_Jew ( ) + 4.2% Azeri_Dagestan ( ) @ 2.85
17 95.2% French_Jew ( ) + 4.8% Cirkassian ( ) @ 2.85
18 96.1% French_Jew ( ) + 3.9% Chechen ( ) @ 2.86
19 95.3% French_Jew ( ) + 4.7% Kurd ( ) @ 2.86
20 84.9% French_Jew ( ) + 15.1% Tunisian_Jew ( ) @ 2.86


Eurogenes K13:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 33.14
2 West_Med 23.75
3 North_Atlantic 18.75
4 West_Asian 13.31
5 Red_Sea 5.99
6 Baltic 2.67
7 East_Asian 1.1
8 Northeast_African 0.82
9 Siberian 0.36
10 Oceanian 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 4.32
2 Sephardic_Jewish 6.33
3 Italian_Jewish 6.43
4 West_Sicilian 6.82
5 East_Sicilian 7.14
6 Algerian_Jewish 7.59
7 Central_Greek 8.4
8 Italian_Abruzzo 8.66
9 Ashkenazi 9.29
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.95
11 Libyan_Jewish 11.79
12 Tuscan 12.98
13 Greek_Thessaly 14.4
14 Cyprian 15.15
15 Lebanese_Muslim 19.04
16 North_Italian 19.27
17 Syrian 20.21
18 Samaritan 21.36
19 Turkish 21.98
20 Tunisian 22.37

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67.6% Cyprian + 32.4% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.75
2 65.4% Lebanese_Christian + 34.6% French_Basque @ 2.79
3 74% Cyprian + 26% French_Basque @ 2.89
4 54.1% Lebanese_Christian + 45.9% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.99
5 64% Cyprian + 36% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.07
6 64.6% Cyprian + 35.4% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.28
7 66% Cyprian + 34% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.29
8 58.1% Lebanese_Christian + 41.9% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.33
9 88.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 11.2% French_Basque @ 3.39
10 65.3% Cyprian + 34.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.43
11 83.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 16.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.47
12 68.3% South_Italian + 31.7% Italian_Jewish @ 3.51
13 52.6% Sephardic_Jewish + 47.4% West_Sicilian @ 3.54
14 78.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 21.7% North_Italian @ 3.55
15 86.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 13.6% Southwest_French @ 3.6
16 68.9% South_Italian + 31.1% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.62
17 70.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 29.3% Tuscan @ 3.66
18 85.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 14.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.68
19 84.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 15.2% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.7
20 85.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 14.2% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.71


Eurogenes K15:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.19
2 West_Med 19.45
3 Atlantic 16.11
4 West_Asian 14.65
5 North_Sea 8.42
6 Red_Sea 6.39
7 Eastern_Euro 1.41
8 Baltic 1.22
9 Northeast_African 1.05
10 Southeast_Asian 0.6
11 Siberian 0.49
12 Oceanian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 4.78
2 Italian_Jewish 5.64
3 East_Sicilian 6.4
4 Sephardic_Jewish 6.44
5 West_Sicilian 6.48
6 Algerian_Jewish 7.33
7 Central_Greek 7.37
8 Italian_Abruzzo 7.49
9 Ashkenazi 9.46
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.84
11 Tuscan 11.9
12 Greek 12.63
13 Libyan_Jewish 13.34
14 Greek_Thessaly 13.8
15 Cyprian 13.95
16 Lebanese_Muslim 17.78
17 North_Italian 18.17
18 Syrian 18.76
19 Turkish 19.57
20 Samaritan 20.31

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.9% Cyprian + 34.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.93
2 67.4% Cyprian + 32.6% Spanish_Aragon @ 3
3 63.9% Cyprian + 36.1% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.18
4 64.3% Cyprian + 35.7% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.2
5 68% Cyprian + 32% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.29
6 64.1% Cyprian + 35.9% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.35
7 73.5% Cyprian + 26.5% French_Basque @ 3.45
8 65.6% Cyprian + 34.4% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.45
9 52.7% Lebanese_Christian + 47.3% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.6
10 66% Cyprian + 34% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.77
11 60.7% Italian_Jewish + 39.3% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.77
12 64.9% Cyprian + 35.1% Portuguese @ 3.81
13 66.2% Cyprian + 33.8% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.84
14 50.7% Algerian_Jewish + 49.3% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.9
15 90.2% Italian_Jewish + 9.8% French_Basque @ 3.9
16 55% Lebanese_Christian + 45% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.91
17 68.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 31.2% Tuscan @ 3.95
18 69.2% Cyprian + 30.8% Southwest_French @ 3.99
19 60.6% South_Italian + 39.4% Italian_Jewish @ 4.03
20 77.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 22.1% North_Italian @ 4.03


Dodecad K12b:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 34.09
2 Atlantic_Med 29.68
3 Southwest_Asian 13.12
4 North_European 10.03
5 Gedrosia 7.11
6 Northwest_African 4.89
7 Southeast_Asian 0.52
8 Siberian 0.45
9 East_African 0.08
10 South_Asian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 3.96
2 Sicilian (Dodecad) 4.04
3 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 6.84
4 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 7.52
5 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 8
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 8.34
7 C_Italian (Dodecad) 9.82
8 Greek (Dodecad) 11.59
9 Tuscan (HGDP) 13.74
10 O_Italian (Dodecad) 13.92
11 TSI30 (Metspalu) 14.72
12 Cypriots (Behar) 17.57
13 Turkish (Dodecad) 20.85
14 N_Italian (Dodecad) 20.93
15 North_Italian (HGDP) 21.62
16 Lebanese (Behar) 21.65
17 Turks (Behar) 23.26
18 Syrians (Behar) 24.15
19 Druze (HGDP) 24.74
20 Jordanians (Behar) 25.06

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 24.1% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 1.7
2 85.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 14.9% French (HGDP) @ 1.89
3 87.4% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12.6% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 1.99
4 63.7% Cypriots (Behar) + 36.3% Portuguese (Dodecad) @ 2.04
5 69.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 30.9% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 2.08
6 87.6% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12.4% British (Dodecad) @ 2.08
7 76.8% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 23.2% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 2.09
8 87.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12.7% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 2.16
9 88% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12% Irish (Dodecad) @ 2.17
10 67.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 32.1% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.19
11 88.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 11.9% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 2.21
12 87.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12.5% English (Dodecad) @ 2.21
13 87.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12.5% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.22
14 88% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 2.23
15 84.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 15.7% Cataluna (1000Genomes) @ 2.23
16 87.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12.1% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 2.25
17 88.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 11.8% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 2.28
18 59.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 40.3% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.35
19 63.5% Cypriots (Behar) + 36.5% Extremadura (1000Genomes) @ 2.35
20 81.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 18.1% Baleares (1000Genomes) @ 2.37


Harappaworld:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 33.32
2 Mediterranean 28.93
3 SW-Asian 15.19
4 NE-Euro 12.51
5 Baloch 7.22
6 Siberian 0.99
7 SE-Asian 0.99
8 San 0.61
9 Papuan 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 5.64
2 sephardic-jew (behar) 6.22
3 morocco-jew (behar) 6.67
4 ashkenazi (harappa) 8.19
5 tuscan (1000genomes) 13.49
6 tuscan (hgdp) 14.02
7 tuscan (hapmap) 14.5
8 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 17.89
9 cypriot (behar) 17.93
10 lebanese (behar) 20.79
11 italian (hgdp) 21.7
12 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 22.26
13 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 22.66
14 lebanese-muslim (haber) 23.6
15 syrian (behar) 23.61
16 jordanian (behar) 23.82
17 palestinian (harappa) 23.82
18 turk (behar) 23.93
19 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 24.05
20 turkish (harappa) 24.2

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.8% sephardic-jew (behar) + 21.2% italian (hgdp) @ 2.27
2 84.5% sephardic-jew (behar) + 15.5% spaniard (behar) @ 2.29
3 88.6% sephardic-jew (behar) + 11.4% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 2.36
4 88.9% sephardic-jew (behar) + 11.1% basque (hgdp) @ 2.36
5 84.8% sephardic-jew (behar) + 15.2% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 2.4
6 70.1% sephardic-jew (behar) + 29.9% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 2.6
7 64.5% lebanese-christian (haber) + 35.5% basque (hgdp) @ 2.85
8 87% sephardic-jew (behar) + 13% french (hgdp) @ 2.89
9 68.9% morocco-jew (behar) + 31.1% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 3.04
10 63.9% lebanese-christian (haber) + 36.1% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 3.08
11 89.8% sephardic-jew (behar) + 10.2% british (1000genomes) @ 3.33
12 71.7% cypriot (behar) + 28.3% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 3.38
13 88% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 12% sardinian (hgdp) @ 3.38
14 89.6% sephardic-jew (behar) + 10.4% utahn-white (1000genomes) @ 3.4
15 90.4% sephardic-jew (behar) + 9.6% orcadian (hgdp) @ 3.44
16 64.5% cypriot (behar) + 35.5% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 3.56
17 55.8% lebanese-christian (haber) + 44.2% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 3.58
18 72.3% cypriot (behar) + 27.7% basque (hgdp) @ 3.59
19 90% sephardic-jew (behar) + 10% n-european (xing) @ 3.67
20 64.1% lebanese-druze (haber) + 35.9% basque (hgdp) @ 3.72

PuntDNA-L K13:
# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 40.9
2 West_Asia 25.78
3 SW_Asia 15.05
4 NE_Europe 13.5
5 Siberia 1.66
6 South_Africa 1.65
7 SE_Asia 1.12
8 Oceania 0.28
9 West_Africa 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Sicilian 4.5
2 Ashkenazy_Jew 5.26
3 Sephardic_Jew 6.7
4 Italian_Abruzzo 8.24
5 Greek_Central 9.49
6 Cypriot 12.46
7 Greek_Thessaly 13.84
8 Albanian 14.45
9 Italian_Tuscan 15.36
10 Turkish 15.49
11 Kosovar 15.7
12 Turkish_Kayseri 17.27
13 Lebanese_Christian 18.46
14 Turkish_Aydin 18.56
15 Syrian 18.69
16 Lebanese_Druze 18.97
17 Lebanese_Muslim 19.97
18 Italian_Bergamo 20.66
19 Bulgarian 20.74
20 Jordanian 20.77

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.9% Cypriot + 26.1% French_Basque @ 3.77
2 98.6% Italian_Sicilian + 1.4% San @ 4.15
3 93.3% Italian_Sicilian + 6.7% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.22
4 98.6% Italian_Sicilian + 1.4% Ju_Hoan @ 4.25
5 63.3% Cypriot + 36.7% Italian_Bergamo @ 4.28
6 89.5% Italian_Sicilian + 10.5% Cypriot @ 4.29
7 98.7% Italian_Sicilian + 1.3% Nganasan @ 4.31
8 98.6% Italian_Sicilian + 1.4% Yakut @ 4.33
9 98.7% Italian_Sicilian + 1.3% Chukchi @ 4.36
10 98.7% Italian_Sicilian + 1.3% Koryak @ 4.36
11 98.7% Italian_Sicilian + 1.3% Dolgan @ 4.38
12 98.8% Italian_Sicilian + 1.2% Eskimo @ 4.4
13 99% Italian_Sicilian + 1% Mbuti_Pygmy @ 4.4
14 96% Italian_Sicilian + 4% Armenian @ 4.4
15 99.1% Italian_Sicilian + 0.9% Igorot @ 4.41
16 98.9% Italian_Sicilian + 1.1% Oroqen @ 4.42
17 98.8% Italian_Sicilian + 1.2% Tuvinian @ 4.42
18 99.1% Italian_Sicilian + 0.9% Murut @ 4.43
19 99.1% Italian_Sicilian + 0.9% Dusun @ 4.44
20 99% Italian_Sicilian + 1% Visayan @ 4.44

On 23%me she scored the following:

20.6% Western Asia & North African

Northern West Asia- 8.3%
Anatolian- 3.0%
Iranian - 1%
Broadly Northern West Asia - 3.9%

Arab- 5.3%
Egyptian- 4.3%
Broadly Arab - 1.0%

Broadly Western Asian & North African - 7%

Thank you! :)

Sikeliot
10-26-2019, 02:09 AM
Your mother overall has higher than average Afroasiatic elements for a Sicilian (meaning Near Eastern/SW Asian/North African/Red Sea) and indeed Palermo tends to be one of the more "MENA" parts of Sicily due to Phoenician settlement but what strikes me about this is that on 23andme she has above noise level of Egyptian. Her MENA is unlikely to just be Phoenician though that may play a role -- there are clearly Arab/Berber traces that not all Sicilians will share at those levels, and her matching with a lot of Lebanese people (especially since Sicilians and Lebanese do not share a lot of IBD because the connection is very ancient, not recent) may even suggest recent Levantine ancestry.

If you have seen results from places like Syracuse, Ragusa, Apulia, Basilicata, etc. a difference can be seen.

Sikeliot
10-26-2019, 05:33 PM
Possible sources of MENA ancestry in the Palermo area that might help you:

1. Phoenicians (Levantine)
2. Elymians (Anatolia/Caucasus/Mesopotamian)
3. Byzantine period (Armenians, Levantines, and Anatolians)
4. Arab period (Egyptians, Berbers, Levantines)

madmjl2181
10-31-2019, 12:23 AM
Your mother overall has higher than average Afroasiatic elements for a Sicilian (meaning Near Eastern/SW Asian/North African/Red Sea) and indeed Palermo tends to be one of the more "MENA" parts of Sicily due to Phoenician settlement but what strikes me about this is that on 23andme she has above noise level of Egyptian. Her MENA is unlikely to just be Phoenician though that may play a role -- there are clearly Arab/Berber traces that not all Sicilians will share at those levels, and her matching with a lot of Lebanese people (especially since Sicilians and Lebanese do not share a lot of IBD because the connection is very ancient, not recent) may even suggest recent Levantine ancestry.

If you have seen results from places like Syracuse, Ragusa, Apulia, Basilicata, etc. a difference can be seen.

A user on gedmatch seems to believe that my moms NA shift is actually a product of Sephardi ancestry. What do you think?

Sikeliot
10-31-2019, 12:39 AM
A user on gedmatch seems to believe that my moms NA shift is actually a product of Sephardi ancestry. What do you think?

That could be, but since most people in her region are the same way, I doubt ALL of them have Sephardi ancestry.

Dimanto
10-31-2019, 12:43 AM
I know a woman who potentially beats them all. She even looks Near Eastern-like and yes Sicilian.

madmjl2181
10-31-2019, 12:46 AM
I know a woman who potentially beats them all. She even looks Near Eastern-like and yes Sicilian.

Send the kit and results. That would be cool. Yeah, my mom looks pretty much Levantine or near East too, as does a lot of my family members. I think that's pretty normal for Central Sicilians, honestly.

Sikeliot
10-31-2019, 12:48 AM
I know a woman who potentially beats them all. She even looks Near Eastern-like and yes Sicilian.

Send the result and what town/province is she from?

Sikeliot
10-31-2019, 12:55 AM
Send the kit and results. That would be cool. Yeah, my mom looks pretty much Levantine or near East too, as does a lot of my family members. I think that's pretty normal for Central Sicilians, honestly.

I think Sicily should be divided in 4 when it comes to genetics, and this is what I'd say makes sense:

NE Sicily: Messina, northern 2/3 of Catania, northern half of Enna
SE Sicily: Southern 1/3 of Catania, southern half of Enna, Syracuse, Ragusa
Central Sicily: Palermo province from Palermo eastward, Caltanissetta, most of Agrigento
West Sicily: Palermo province from Palermo city westward, Trapani, border regions of Agrigento and Trapani

madmjl2181
10-31-2019, 12:57 AM
I think Sicily should be divided in 4 when it comes to genetics, and this is what I'd say makes sense:

NE Sicily: Messina, northern 2/3 of Catania, northern half of Enna
SE Sicily: Southern 1/3 of Catania, southern half of Enna, Syracuse, Ragusa
Central Sicily: Palermo province from Palermo eastward, Caltanissetta, most of Agrigento
West Sicily: Palermo province from Palermo city westward, Trapani, border regions of Agrigento and Trapani

I agree with these geographical distinctions.

Sikeliot
10-31-2019, 01:00 AM
I agree with these geographical distinctions.

I struggled with where to put Enna. I do not see a consistent pattern with their results.

The southern 1/3 of Catania the results I see from there have higher Baltic/NE European than average for Sicily and as such I think they are more like Syracusans but more Near Eastern shifted than them.

Dimanto
10-31-2019, 03:24 AM
Send the result and what town/province is she from?

I will ask her tomorrow.

Sikeliot
10-31-2019, 04:02 AM
I will ask her tomorrow.

Post the result?

Dimanto
11-01-2019, 09:19 PM
Here you go:

K16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 45.67
2 Neolithic 22.68
3 Steppe 11.78
4 NearEast 6.91
5 NorthAfrican 6.68
6 NorthEastEuropean 2.62
7 Indian 2.05
8 EastAfrican 1.25
9 Subsaharian 0.36

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 7.07
2 Jew (Turkey) 7.64
3 Jew (Sephardim) 7.7
4 Jew (Bulgaria) 7.87
5 Jew (Syria) 8.05
6 Jew (Italian) 8.37
7 Cypriot (Cyprus) 8.54
8 Jew (Morocco) 8.74
9 Jew (Ashkenazi) 8.87
10 Greek (Greece) 8.98
11 Jew (Algeria) 9.07
12 Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) 9.58
13 Greek (Azov) 9.61
14 Jew (Ashkenazim) 9.77
15 Italian (SouthItaly) 9.88
16 Greek (Athens) 9.95
17 Maltese (Malta) 10.49
18 Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) 10.77
19 Sicilian (Sicily) 10.8
20 Jew (Libya) 11.03

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.1% Jew (Algeria) + 28.9% Turk (Trabzon) @ 3.68
2 71.7% Jew (Algeria) + 28.3% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 4.07
3 72.7% Jew (Morocco) + 27.3% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 4.1
4 67.6% Jew (Italian) + 32.4% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 4.22
5 70.6% Jew (Algeria) + 29.4% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 4.26
6 69.5% Jew (Morocco) + 30.5% Georgian (Kakheti) @ 4.28
7 65.4% Jew (Algeria) + 34.6% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 4.35
8 69.6% Jew (Morocco) + 30.4% Georgian (Georgia) @ 4.38
9 71.9% Jew (Morocco) + 28.1% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 4.39
10 61.3% Maltese (Malta) + 38.7% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 4.49
11 62.4% Maltese (Malta) + 37.6% Georgian (Laz) @ 4.51
12 64.8% Maltese (Malta) + 35.2% Armenian (Armenia) @ 4.53
13 71.1% Jew (Algeria) + 28.9% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 4.59
14 64% Armenian (Armenia) + 36% Spanish (Canarias) @ 4.6
15 58.2% Maltese (Malta) + 41.8% Assyrian (Armenia) @ 4.6
16 68.9% Jew (Algeria) + 31.1% Georgian (Georgia) @ 4.64
17 73.5% Jew (Italian) + 26.5% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 4.66
18 71.3% Jew (Italian) + 28.7% Georgian (Georgia) @ 4.67
19 70.2% Jew (Morocco) + 29.8% Armenian (Armenia) @ 4.69
20 69.1% Jew (Algeria) + 30.9% Armenian (Armenia) @ 4.7

K23b


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 42.71
2 European_Early_Farmers 18.81
3 Near_East 12.76
4 South_Central_Asian 7.93
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 6.49
6 North_African 6.3
7 Austronesian 1.06
8 African_Pygmy 0.93
9 Subsaharian 0.78
10 South_East_Asian 0.71
11 Archaic_Human 0.69
12 East_African 0.57
13 Arctic 0.24
14 Amerindian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cretan ( ) 3.71
2 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 5.45
3 Greek ( ) 6.11
4 Italian_South ( ) 6.24
5 Greek_Islands ( ) 6.29
6 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 6.46
7 Cypriot ( ) 6.52
8 Greek_Athens ( ) 6.66
9 Romanian_Jew ( ) 7.43
10 Syrian_Jew ( ) 7.95
11 Greek_Phokaia ( ) 8.16
12 Azov_Greek ( ) 8.95
13 Sicilian_Center ( ) 9.13
14 Ashkenazi ( ) 9.25
15 Central_Greek ( ) 9.3
16 Sicilian_East ( ) 9.59
17 Gagauz ( ) 10.24
18 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 10.67
19 Italian_Jew ( ) 10.7
20 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain ( ) 11.04

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.5% Sicilian_East ( ) + 29.5% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) @ 1.96
2 71.7% Sicilian_East ( ) + 28.3% Armenian_Yerevan ( ) @ 2.11
3 83.2% Cretan ( ) + 16.8% Christian_Arabs_Israel ( ) @ 2.18
4 76.4% Italian_South ( ) + 23.6% Iraqi_Mandean ( ) @ 2.27
5 70.8% Sicilian_East ( ) + 29.2% Armenian ( ) @ 2.27
6 60.9% Sicilian_Center ( ) + 39.1% Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) @ 2.27
7 72.2% Italian_South ( ) + 27.8% Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) @ 2.28
8 68.1% Sicilian_Center ( ) + 31.9% Iranian_Jew ( ) @ 2.29
9 67.9% Cretan ( ) + 32.1% Cypriot ( ) @ 2.35
10 86.6% Cretan ( ) + 13.4% Druze ( ) @ 2.42
11 63.2% Sicilian_Center ( ) + 36.8% Georgian_Jew ( ) @ 2.44
12 77.2% Italian_South ( ) + 22.8% Kurd_Jew ( ) @ 2.44
13 92.1% Cretan ( ) + 7.9% Turk_Trabzon ( ) @ 2.46
14 94.4% Cretan ( ) + 5.6% Georgian_Laz ( ) @ 2.47
15 76.7% Italian_South ( ) + 23.3% Iranian_Jew ( ) @ 2.48
16 65.6% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) + 34.4% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) @ 2.48
17 73.9% Sephardic_Jew ( ) + 26.1% Turk_Trabzon ( ) @ 2.49
18 68.9% Sicilian_Center ( ) + 31.1% Kurd_Jew ( ) @ 2.51
19 56.7% Greek_Islands ( ) + 43.3% Syrian_Jew ( ) @ 2.52
20 89.3% Cretan ( ) + 10.7% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) @ 2.56

k15


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.17
2 West_Asian 17.68
3 West_Med 17.37
4 Atlantic 14.22
5 Red_Sea 7.38
6 Baltic 4.1
7 North_Sea 3.63
8 Eastern_Euro 1.97
9 Sub-Saharan 1.51
10 Amerindian 0.75
11 Siberian 0.21
12 Northeast_African 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.67
2 Sephardic_Jewish 5.85
3 East_Sicilian 7.64
4 Italian_Jewish 7.68
5 Algerian_Jewish 7.78
6 Central_Greek 7.97
7 Ashkenazi 9.65
8 Tunisian_Jewish 9.68
9 Italian_Abruzzo 9.88
10 West_Sicilian 9.96
11 Cyprian 10.27
12 Greek 12.9
13 Libyan_Jewish 13.73
14 Lebanese_Muslim 14
15 Greek_Thessaly 15.08
16 Syrian 15.21
17 Tuscan 15.71
18 Turkish 15.99
19 Samaritan 17.46
20 Lebanese_Christian 18.71

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.8% Cyprian + 19.2% French_Basque @ 3.11
2 74.3% Cyprian + 25.7% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.5
3 77.8% Cyprian + 22.2% Southwest_French @ 3.52
4 75.9% Cyprian + 24.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.57
5 77% Cyprian + 23% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.62
6 75.6% Cyprian + 24.4% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.7
7 77.4% Cyprian + 22.6% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.75
8 84.7% Algerian_Jewish + 15.3% North_Ossetian @ 3.91
9 83.8% Algerian_Jewish + 16.2% Adygei @ 3.98
10 76.1% Cyprian + 23.9% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.06
11 84% Algerian_Jewish + 16% Balkar @ 4.12
12 83.9% Algerian_Jewish + 16.1% Kabardin @ 4.13
13 75.1% Cyprian + 24.9% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.14
14 84.4% Algerian_Jewish + 15.6% Georgian @ 4.15
15 90.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 9.9% North_Ossetian @ 4.16
16 85.6% Algerian_Jewish + 14.4% Abhkasian @ 4.17
17 89.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 10.6% Balkar @ 4.17
18 75.4% Cyprian + 24.6% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.19
19 84.7% Algerian_Jewish + 15.3% Ossetian @ 4.19
20 89.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 10.5% Adygei @ 4.22

k13


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 34.33
2 West_Med 21.94
3 West_Asian 16.52
4 North_Atlantic 12.84
5 Red_Sea 7
6 Baltic 4.31
7 Sub-Saharan 1.65
8 Amerindian 0.76
9 Siberian 0.66

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.08
2 Sephardic_Jewish 5.96
3 Algerian_Jewish 6.54
4 Italian_Jewish 7.27
5 East_Sicilian 7.28
6 Central_Greek 8.29
7 Ashkenazi 8.73
8 Tunisian_Jewish 9.08
9 Cyprian 9.61
10 Libyan_Jewish 10.11
11 West_Sicilian 10.73
12 Italian_Abruzzo 11.27
13 Lebanese_Muslim 13.74
14 Syrian 15.03
15 Greek_Thessaly 15.25
16 Samaritan 16.65
17 Tuscan 17.51
18 Turkish 17.68
19 Lebanese_Christian 17.69
20 Jordanian 18.25

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 76.8% Cyprian + 23.2% Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.79
2 79.4% Cyprian + 20.6% Spanish_Cantabria @ 1.8
3 80.2% Cyprian + 19.8% Southwest_French @ 1.87
4 78.4% Cyprian + 21.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.95
5 77.2% Cyprian + 22.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 1.97
6 77.8% Cyprian + 22.2% Spanish_Galicia @ 1.97
7 66.8% South_Italian + 33.2% Cyprian @ 2
8 77.5% Cyprian + 22.5% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.01
9 77.2% Cyprian + 22.8% Portuguese @ 2.06
10 78.3% Cyprian + 21.7% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.06
11 79.6% Cyprian + 20.4% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.06
12 77.9% Cyprian + 22.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.08
13 78.4% Cyprian + 21.6% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.14
14 79.2% South_Italian + 20.8% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.15
15 78.3% South_Italian + 21.7% Samaritan @ 2.24
16 83.7% Cyprian + 16.3% French_Basque @ 2.24
17 71.8% Cyprian + 28.2% North_Italian @ 2.26
18 52.9% Cyprian + 47.1% West_Sicilian @ 2.27
19 65.1% Cyprian + 34.9% Tuscan @ 2.39
20 75.5% South_Italian + 24.5% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.58

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cyprian +50% West_Sicilian @ 2.349536


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Cyprian +25% Cyprian +25% Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.860007

k12b


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 36.11
2 Atlantic_Med 25.1
3 Southwest_Asian 14.02
4 North_European 9.47
5 Gedrosia 8.92
6 Northwest_African 4.66
7 East_Asian 1.12
8 Sub_Saharan 0.45
9 Siberian 0.15

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 5.61
2 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.56
3 Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.99
4 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 7.34
5 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 7.44
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 8.47
7 Greek (Dodecad) 12.7
8 C_Italian (Dodecad) 13.78
9 Cypriots (Behar) 14.28
10 Turkish (Dodecad) 16.4
11 O_Italian (Dodecad) 16.98
12 Lebanese (Behar) 17.19
13 Tuscan (HGDP) 17.7
14 Turks (Behar) 18.61
15 TSI30 (Metspalu) 18.86
16 Syrians (Behar) 20.1
17 Druze (HGDP) 20.53
18 Jordanians (Behar) 21.2
19 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 22.25
20 Palestinian (HGDP) 23.06

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.2% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.8% Iranians (Behar) @ 2.76
2 80.3% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.7% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.81
3 88.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 11.1% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.87
4 63% Druze (HGDP) + 37% Extremadura (1000Genomes) @ 3.06
5 80.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.6% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 3.08
6 77.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.2% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 3.08
7 55.8% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 44.2% Lebanese (Behar) @ 3.16
8 81.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.9% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 3.16
9 63.1% Druze (HGDP) + 36.9% Portuguese (Dodecad) @ 3.24
10 62.3% Druze (HGDP) + 37.7% Baleares (1000Genomes) @ 3.3
11 64.5% Druze (HGDP) + 35.5% Castilla_Y_Leon (1000Genomes) @ 3.39
12 82.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17.7% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 3.39
13 80.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.3% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 3.43
14 83.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 16.8% Iranians (Behar) @ 3.43
15 64% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 36% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 3.44
16 90% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 10% Makrani (HGDP) @ 3.45
17 65.7% Druze (HGDP) + 34.3% Cataluna (1000Genomes) @ 3.45
18 91.2% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 8.8% Brahui (HGDP) @ 3.46
19 65.5% Druze (HGDP) + 34.5% Spanish (Dodecad) @ 3.46
20 79.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.3% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 3.5

JoeyP37
11-01-2019, 10:08 PM
I am interested in the proportion of WestMed/EastMed in this sample, as I have noted that I have nearly no EastMed despite being 1/8 Sicilian (FWIW, it is West Sicilian, using this thread's criteria, Palazzo Adriano/Trapani). K13 my EastMed is 2.79 while West is 17.16; EUtest V2 K15 EastMed is 0 while WestMed is 13.48; EUtest EastMed 2.60, West 15.30. She seems to have a lot more EastMed compared to my proportions (granted, some of the West Med may be from my French ancestors)

Genetique
11-01-2019, 10:16 PM
Here you go:

K16


K23b



k15



k13



k12b

Never seen a result with such a Southern and Eastern shift.

14 Syrian 15.03
15 Greek_Thessaly 15.25
16 Samaritan 16.65
17 Tuscan 17.51
18 Turkish 17.68

Closer to Samaritans and Syrians than to Tuscans, very low Steppe (16% on K13), 25% Levantine shift compared to South_Italian reference. On k16 she's closer also to all western jews, Cyprus, Lebanese Christian than to Sicilians.

Ajeje Brazorf
11-01-2019, 10:29 PM
Here you go:

K16


K23b



k15



k13



k12b

Can you PM me her GEDmatch kit?

Dimanto
11-01-2019, 10:34 PM
Can you PM me her GEDmatch kit?

I'm sorry but I can't share her kit number with you. I can however share other ADMIXTURE results if you want.

Ajeje Brazorf
11-01-2019, 10:36 PM
I'm sorry but I can't share her kit number with you. I can however share other ADMIXTURE results if you want.

Share her Eurogenes Hunter Gatherer vs Farmer results

Dimanto
11-01-2019, 10:40 PM
Share her Eurogenes Hunter Gatherer vs Farmer results

Eurogenes Hunter_Gatherer vs. Farmer Admixture Proportions


Population
Anatolian Farmer 33.11 Pct
Baltic Hunter Gatherer 10.18 Pct
Middle Eastern Herder 19.51 Pct
North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer 0.79 Pct
East African Pastoralist 0.28 Pct
Mediterranean Farmer 34.96 Pct
Bantu Farmer 1.17 Pct

Sikeliot
11-01-2019, 10:43 PM
I'm sorry but I can't share her kit number with you. I can however share other ADMIXTURE results if you want.

Where in Sicily is she from? Is she full Sicilian?? Her result is close to the south Italy average but more outlying.

Dimanto
11-01-2019, 10:47 PM
Where in Sicily is she from? Is she full Sicilian?? Her result is close to the south Italy average but more outlying.

Edit: fully Sicilian > Messina

Genetique
11-01-2019, 10:55 PM
Half Sicilian (Messina) and half Calabrian.

Which part of Calabria ?

Genetique
11-01-2019, 10:55 PM
double

Ajeje Brazorf
11-01-2019, 10:58 PM
Eurogenes Hunter_Gatherer vs. Farmer Admixture Proportions

Holy shit... she's the least Steppe I've ever seen, and also one of the most Caucasus shifted.

Johnny ola
11-01-2019, 11:00 PM
Indeed very caucasus shifted.Could have Pontian/anatolian roots also.

Genetique
11-01-2019, 11:02 PM
Holy shit... she's the least Steppe I've ever seen, and also one of the most Caucasus shifted.

10% Steppe is very low indeed, extreme outlier

Ajeje Brazorf
11-01-2019, 11:07 PM
10% Steppe is very low indeed, extreme outlier

"Baltic Hunter Gatherer" doesn't indicate the Steppe amount, as it hardly distinguishes WHG from it. I think it's a simple "northern" component.

Dimanto
11-01-2019, 11:22 PM
Which part of Calabria ?

I was wrong, she's fully Sicilian > Messina

Genetique
11-01-2019, 11:24 PM
I was wrong, she's fully Sicilian > Messina

Interesting because Sikeliot had posted a result with 42% MENA coming from Messina (on 23andme) I've always wondered where this result would have plotted. Even more southern than this woman I think (42% MENA is not that far from Cyprus values I think)

Dimanto
11-01-2019, 11:30 PM
Interesting because Sikeliot had posted a result with 42% MENA coming from Messina (on 23andme) I've always wondered where this result would have plotted. Even more southern than this woman I think (42% MENA is not that far from Cyprus values I think)

23andme is useless for this. You should always verify with GEDmatch.

Genetique
11-01-2019, 11:31 PM
23andme is useless for this. You should always verify with GEDmatch.

Unfortunately we haven't the gedmatch kit for this result. Messina seems to have very extreme outliers.

Dimanto
11-01-2019, 11:33 PM
Unfortunately we haven't the gedmatch kit for this result. Messina seems to have very extreme outliers.

I agree.

Sikeliot
11-01-2019, 11:34 PM
I was wrong, she's fully Sicilian > Messina

Not surprised. I knew she'd either be from Messina, Caltanissetta or Palermo.

Which town in Messina do you know? And are her initials "A.B."?

If so it's the woman with 41% MENA from Naso.

Sikeliot
11-01-2019, 11:36 PM
Holy shit... she's the least Steppe I've ever seen, and also one of the most Caucasus shifted.

She's so MENA shifted she is modeled as 16% Levantine when compared to MDLP's Cretan sample which I always believed is more MENA than the Cretan average even.

Genetique
11-01-2019, 11:44 PM
She's so MENA shifted she is modeled as 16% Levantine when compared to MDLP's Cretan sample which I always believed is more MENA than the Cretan average even.

From some maps that I've seen central Crete has a noticeable slavic shift, no ? They give to central Crete same Slavic influence as some northern Mainland Greece regions.

Sikeliot
11-01-2019, 11:45 PM
From some maps that I've seen central Crete has a noticeable slavic shift, no ? They give to central Crete same Slavic influence as some northern Mainland Greece regions.

Autosomally I think it is western Crete that has this.

Dimanto
11-01-2019, 11:52 PM
Not surprised. I knew she'd either be from Messina, Caltanissetta or Palermo.

Which town in Messina do you know? And are her initials "A.B."?

If so it's the woman with 41% MENA from Naso.

No, I know her personally and she lives in Italy. I believe it's Sant'agata di militello but possibly also other towns.

Ajeje Brazorf
11-01-2019, 11:52 PM
She's so MENA shifted she is modeled as 16% Levantine when compared to MDLP's Cretan sample which I always believed is more MENA than the Cretan average even.

But averages are a different story, there are Cretans who are even more MENA than her.

Genetique
11-01-2019, 11:55 PM
But averages are a different story, there are Cretans who are even more MENA than her.

Crete tend to be very heterogenous, there are Cretans that shift noticeably towards mainland Greece and others that shift in other directions.

Dimanto
11-02-2019, 12:08 AM
She's so MENA shifted she is modeled as 16% Levantine when compared to MDLP's Cretan sample which I always believed is more MENA than the Cretan average even.

Yes, it also strongly shows in her phenotype that she's MENA shifted.

Sikeliot
11-02-2019, 12:18 AM
No, I know her personally and she lives in Italy. I believe it's Sant'agata di militello but possibly also other towns.

It's the north coast of Messina province with these outliers in my experience, not so much people down the east coast. So I am not surprised by this. The other outlier who I have on 23andme, is from Naso.

Sikeliot
11-02-2019, 12:19 AM
But averages are a different story, there are Cretans who are even more MENA than her.

If you have examples I'd like to see.

Sikeliot
11-02-2019, 12:23 AM
Yes, it also strongly shows in her phenotype that she's MENA shifted.

Might this woman plot close to the people on Global25 from Kos, in the Dodecanese?

Dimanto
11-02-2019, 12:57 AM
Might this woman plot close to the people on Global25 from Kos, in the Dodecanese?

Could be but for that we'd need the coordinates from Davidski. I believe she also has ancestry from Rometta.

Sikeliot
11-02-2019, 01:08 AM
Could be but for that we'd need the coordinates from Davidski. I believe she also has ancestry from Rometta.

Same area. It's the north coast of Sicily up to around Palermo (city) that have these outliers. The result I have from Taormina, east coast Messina is more 'average'.

madmjl2181
11-02-2019, 02:30 AM
Cool stuff. Does she have any relatives matches from her outlier areas?

Dimanto
11-02-2019, 05:23 PM
Cool stuff. Does she have any relatives matches from her outlier areas?

I think there are signals coming from Crotone but we're still busy sorting out matches and doing the genealogy.

Greekscholar
11-03-2019, 10:58 PM
Yes, in my experience there is a great deal of genetic diversity in Crete. Some individuals plot near Dodecanes, others nearer to that "Central Greece" sample that is likely a Sporades or possibly Cyclades sample.

I am posting this Cretan K15, but with a word of warning. I can't vouch that all the samples are actual Cretans as I got the kit numbers from someone else. Still, you can see this PCA made with about a twenty Cretans does a pretty good job of enclosing the diversity found on the other islands I have samples from.

Johnny ola
11-04-2019, 02:00 AM
Yes, in my experience there is a great deal of genetic diversity in Crete. Some individuals plot near Dodecanes, others nearer to that "Central Greece" sample that is likely a Sporades or possibly Cyclades sample.

I am posting this Cretan K15, but with a word of warning. I can't vouch that all the samples are actual Cretans as I got the kit numbers from someone else. Still, you can see this PCA made with about a twenty Cretans does a pretty good job of enclosing the diversity found on the other islands I have samples from.

These Cretans that plot far northern and coming more slavic are probably immigrants from mainland.I doubt that they have real native Cretan heritage.

Greekscholar
11-04-2019, 02:08 AM
These Cretans that plot far northern and coming more slavic are probably immigrants from mainland.I doubt that they have real native Cretan heritage.

It really isn't that far north, it is in the same place on the PCA that Chiotes, Samiotes, and Ikarians frequently fall. The two Crete samples on this PCA are 4/4 grandparents born on Crete (which is why I felt confident putting them on this PCA.)

I do believe you are correct that the percent of Steppe-like ancestry is what creates this cline. The closer to Cyprus you get on the PCA, the less Steppe you have.

Johnny ola
11-04-2019, 08:56 AM
It really isn't that far north, it is in the same place on the PCA that Chiotes, Samiotes, and Ikarians frequently fall. The two Crete samples on this PCA are 4/4 grandparents born on Crete (which is why I felt confident putting them on this PCA.)

I do believe you are correct that the percent of Steppe-like ancestry is what creates this cline. The closer to Cyprus you get on the PCA, the less Steppe you have.

Yes steppe is the main reason why the plot northern. What it isthis steppe.. and where it comes from? It's higher compared to Mycenean sample. Do we have historical evidence that slavs settled to islands and even Crete? Or it might be from Italian settlers or something. You even, if I am not mistaken have a good steppe admixture. Thats why I mention immigration from mainalnd. I know some people will say Doric settlement and stuff like that... So the steppe to southern regions is a good question and the same exists for the high natufian/CHG.

Johnny ola
11-04-2019, 11:28 AM
It really isn't that far north, it is in the same place on the PCA that Chiotes, Samiotes, and Ikarians frequently fall. The two Crete samples on this PCA are 4/4 grandparents born on Crete (which is why I felt confident putting them on this PCA.)

I do believe you are correct that the percent of Steppe-like ancestry is what creates this cline. The closer to Cyprus you get on the PCA, the less Steppe you have.



Btw something that i forgot to mention is when i run models from west anatolian Greeks like Smyrna,Phokaia etc (not pontic or cappadocians) they tend to have also a good amount of steppe admixture and some of them even higher compared to dodecanese and some other islanders...witch’s makes me wonder what related steppe groups reached the anatolian coast of asia minor Greeks?Myceneans definetly gave to them some steppe admixture but the rest is unknown.So,we have to wonder how components like EHG,CHG and Levant natufian increased among the populations of southeast aegean and also the west coast of modern turkey among the Greek populations.I am sure some people will claim Doric settlement etc witch in some way..some folks might say that haplos/clades(mostly of R1b) in these regions testify a steppe related colonization.But since we don’t have any samples or any other evidence to prove such a thing,then we have to stay calm and wait.Its sad that Greece is so far behind when it comes to genetics and more sad that native Greek people don’t give a damn shit about genetics,ancestry and stuff that have to do with our roots.I am glad that some Diaspora Greeks(like you) are by far more interested about their origins. :)

Sikeliot
11-04-2019, 01:17 PM
It really isn't that far north, it is in the same place on the PCA that Chiotes, Samiotes, and Ikarians frequently fall. The two Crete samples on this PCA are 4/4 grandparents born on Crete (which is why I felt confident putting them on this PCA.)

I do believe you are correct that the percent of Steppe-like ancestry is what creates this cline. The closer to Cyprus you get on the PCA, the less Steppe you have.


Crete is Greece's version of Sicily. Both islands have people that overlap with the other islands and southern regions of their countries and span the entire range, which makes sense for large islands which had a lot of migration and traffic.

I do not think higher Steppe in Cretans is recent mainland immigration but surely, the cline in Crete is created by, at some point in history, certain parts of the island receiving mainland Greek migrants. But the same is true of other islands like the Cyclades and some North Aegean people!

Slavs never settled on the islands directly, but Greeks from other regions who have Slavic ancestry did.

Johnny ola
11-04-2019, 01:43 PM
Crete is Greece's version of Sicily. Both islands have people that overlap with the other islands and southern regions of their countries and span the entire range, which makes sense for large islands which had a lot of migration and traffic.

I do not think higher Steppe in Cretans is recent mainland immigration but surely, the cline in Crete is created by, at some point in history, certain parts of the island receiving mainland Greek migrants. But the same is true of other islands like the Cyclades and some North Aegean people!

Slavs never settled on the islands directly, but Greeks from other regions who have Slavic ancestry did.



Crete and islands were under Italians during middle ages,some of steppe might be coming from them who knows.

Sikeliot
11-04-2019, 04:01 PM
Crete and islands were under Italians during middle ages,some of steppe might be coming from them who knows.

The Crete study this year showed Slavic input in Crete. This was likely from the mainland.

Greekscholar
11-04-2019, 04:46 PM
Btw something that i forgot to mention is when i run models from west anatolian Greeks like Smyrna,Phokaia etc (not pontic or cappadocians) they tend to have also a good amount of steppe admixture and some of them even higher compared to dodecanese and some other islanders...witch’s makes me wonder what related steppe groups reached the anatolian coast of asia minor Greeks?Myceneans definetly gave to them some steppe admixture but the rest is unknown.So,we have to wonder how components like EHG,CHG and Levant natufian increased among the populations of southeast aegean and also the west coast of modern turkey among the Greek populations.I am sure some people will claim Doric settlement etc witch in some way..some folks might say that haplos/clades(mostly of R1b) in these regions testify a steppe related colonization.But since we don’t have any samples or any other evidence to prove such a thing,then we have to stay calm and wait.Its sad that Greece is so far behind when it comes to genetics and more sad that native Greek people don’t give a damn shit about genetics,ancestry and stuff that have to do with our roots.I am glad that some Diaspora Greeks(like you) are by far more interested about their origins. :)

The Steppe like ancestry is largely Slavic, but part could be from other Iron Age Balkan groups. We have a few threads discussing this topic, but here is one I could find.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?15180-How-genetically-similar-are-Modern-Greeks-to-the-ancient-ones&p=615332&viewfull=1#post615332

My feeling is that it was mixing in the Byzantine and then Ottoman world that brought Mainland Greeks with this admixture to the islands and coast of Asia Minor. As for when the Levant influence was introduced into the islands, your guess is as good as mine. After Minoans, obviously, and before modern times, but that leaves a really big window. In my experience, looking for significant amounts of Levant ancestry is the best way to spot Island Greeks, as we do seem to have varying levels of that Steppe-like ancestry like our mainland cousins, while Mainland Greeks seem to have small to nearly no ancestry from the Levant. I guess I might say the northern influence spread deeper into the islands than the Levant influence spread back into the Mainland.

Some individual samples do seem to have evidence of Italian admixture (as guessed by North African ancestry and a preference for Bell Beaker vs. Slavic in various models,) but I can not say with confidence that the models we are using to test this are correct.

Genetique
11-04-2019, 05:00 PM
The Steppe like ancestry is largely Slavic, but part could be from other Iron Age Balkan groups. We have a few threads discussing this topic, but here is one I could find.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?15180-How-genetically-similar-are-Modern-Greeks-to-the-ancient-ones&p=615332&viewfull=1#post615332

My feeling is that it was mixing in the Byzantine and then Ottoman world that brought Mainland Greeks with this admixture to the islands and coast of Asia Minor. As for when the Levant influence was introduced into the islands, your guess is as good as mine. After Minoans, obviously, and before modern times, but that leaves a really big window. In my experience, looking for significant amounts of Levant ancestry is the best way to spot Island Greeks, as we do seem to have varying levels of that Steppe-like ancestry like our mainland cousins, while Mainland Greeks seem to have small to nearly no ancestry from the Levant. I guess I might say the northern influence spread deeper into the islands than the Levant influence spread back into the Mainland.

Some individual samples do seem to have evidence of Italian admixture (as guessed by North African ancestry and a preference for Bell Beaker vs. Slavic in various models,) but I can not say with confidence that the models we are using to test this are correct.

Some islands were partly populated also by italians, some Ionian Islands came to my mind but also I've heard that for Aegean islanders.

Johnny ola
11-04-2019, 05:23 PM
The Crete study this year showed Slavic input in Crete. This was likely from the mainland.

The slavic input in Crete isn’t at the east of the island or i am wrong?If i am not mistaken is not more than 5% right?

Genetique
11-04-2019, 05:33 PM
The slavic input in Crete isn’t at the east of the island or i am wrong?If i am not mistaken is not more than 5% right?

I've seen a map where Slavic admixture in the middle of Crete (neither Western or Eastern) reaches levels similar to northern Greece.

Johnny ola
11-04-2019, 05:38 PM
I've seen a map where Slavic admixture in the middle of Crete (neither Western or Eastern) reaches levels similar to northern Greece.

Hmm sounds extreme xd!

Johnny ola
11-04-2019, 06:11 PM
The Steppe like ancestry is largely Slavic, but part could be from other Iron Age Balkan groups. We have a few threads discussing this topic, but here is one I could find.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?15180-How-genetically-similar-are-Modern-Greeks-to-the-ancient-ones&p=615332&viewfull=1#post615332

My feeling is that it was mixing in the Byzantine and then Ottoman world that brought Mainland Greeks with this admixture to the islands and coast of Asia Minor. As for when the Levant influence was introduced into the islands, your guess is as good as mine. After Minoans, obviously, and before modern times, but that leaves a really big window. In my experience, looking for significant amounts of Levant ancestry is the best way to spot Island Greeks, as we do seem to have varying levels of that Steppe-like ancestry like our mainland cousins, while Mainland Greeks seem to have small to nearly no ancestry from the Levant. I guess I might say the northern influence spread deeper into the islands than the Levant influence spread back into the Mainland.

Some individual samples do seem to have evidence of Italian admixture (as guessed by North African ancestry and a preference for Bell Beaker vs. Slavic in various models,) but I can not say with confidence that the models we are using to test this are correct.



They fit good indeed.Both Slavic and IA balkan references when i model them.But i am wondering about anatolian greeks especially the 2 new samples we got.They show also northern admixture..



This is how i modeled Greek_Smyrna.


Target: Greek_Smyrna
Distance: 0.9711% / 0.00971059
Aggregated
23.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
19.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad
19.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
16.2 BGR_IA
13.2 Levant_ISR_C
4.8 GRC_Mycenaean
4.2 Baltic_LVA_BA



Target: Greek_Phokaia
Distance: 1.4674% / 0.01467427
Aggregated
24.8 HUN_Avar_Szolad
20.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
19.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
11.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
8.8 GRC_Mycenaean
7.0 HRV_Vucedol
4.2 BGR_IA
3.6 CZE_Early_Slav
1.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N


The phokaia model might be a little shit thought..

Johnny ola
11-04-2019, 06:38 PM
I think its really important about the genetics of the Anatolian Greeks of the west coast like Smyrna,Phokaia,Costantinoupoli,Aivali etc regions because many many Greeks have ancestry from these places.Its a really important Greek group that repopulated Greece after the events of 1920-1924.

Genetique
11-04-2019, 06:47 PM
Hmm sounds extreme xd!

Sincerely I've seen some cretans (I guess from that part), look pan-Balkan and you see clearly the Slavic influences !

Johnny ola
11-04-2019, 06:52 PM
Sincerely I've seen some cretans (I guess from that part), look pan-Balkan and you see clearly the Slavic influences !

Yes there are some very light Cretans aswell with Balkan/Slavic vibe.

BUT Cretans in general are swarthy.

Greekscholar
11-04-2019, 06:58 PM
I would love to see a map of Slavic admixture on Crete. My gut tells me no part should have Steppe-like ancestry at the same level as Mainland Greeks, but I am interested in seeing.

I agree 100% that Anatolian Greeks are a fascinating group and am very happy to see our first G25 samples and averages from them. I am backlogged a bit and need to catch up to some of the other threads and the models they used. Phokaia is a sample of one, and does model oddly compared to other Greeks. The Smyrna Greeks aren't all that different from me on most models, which would suggest population movement from NE Aegean islands and coastal Asia Minor. That completely makes sense if you look at the history of depopulation/repopulation of most of those islands.

Lastly, I was personally surprised I didn't have any clear traces of Italian ancestry considering the islands my family is from. I expected to see some, Italian first names were common on Fourni in the early 20th century and the island was ruled by Italy until after WWII. Chios "should" have some because of the heavy Genoese presence.........but the massacre and repopulation of that island could have changed the demographics.

lacreme
11-04-2019, 07:07 PM
I think its really important about the genetics of the Anatolian Greeks of the west coast like Smyrna,Phokaia,Costantinoupoli,Aivali etc regions because many many Greeks have ancestry from these places.Its a really important Greek group that repopulated Greece after the events of 1920-1924.

Many places of Asia minor,especially the area of Smyrna,were repopulated with Greeks from the islands and the mainland after the 17th century so it's completely normal to have a more "northern" pull.

Johnny ola
11-04-2019, 07:09 PM
I would love to see a map of Slavic admixture on Crete. My gut tells me no part should have Steppe-like ancestry at the same level as Mainland Greeks, but I am interested in seeing.

I agree 100% that Anatolian Greeks are a fascinating group and am very happy to see our first G25 samples and averages from them. I am backlogged a bit and need to catch up to some of the other threads and the models they used. Phokaia is a sample of one, and does model oddly compared to other Greeks. The Smyrna Greeks aren't all that different from me on most models, which would suggest population movement from NE Aegean islands and coastal Asia Minor. That completely makes sense if you look at the history of depopulation/repopulation of most of those islands.

Lastly, I was personally surprised I didn't have any clear traces of Italian ancestry considering the islands my family is from. I expected to see some, Italian first names were common on Fourni in the early 20th century and the island was ruled by Italy until after WWII. Chios "should" have some because of the heavy Genoese presence.........but the massacre and repopulation of that island could have changed the demographics.

Indeed.I agree that islanders and greeks from the west coast of anatolia were in contact and mixes between them were not very rare.I would like to see also Ydna from them to compare it with some of islanders/cretans etc.

You should go also for a cheap Ydna test just to see where you belong.

Genetique
11-04-2019, 07:13 PM
Yes there are some very light Cretans aswell with Balkan/Slavic vibe.

BUT Cretans in general are swarthy.

Yep but it's possible that there are intra-regional differences as in S.Italy I wouldn't consider that as a fool idea, also some gedmatch results had pinpointed that there are cretans that shift clearly towards Mainland Greece (and as the same time Crete is surely under-studied as Calabria, Apulia, Basilicata and I can go on for a lot of East-Med continuum populations…).


I would love to see a map of Slavic admixture on Crete. My gut tells me no part should have Steppe-like ancestry at the same level as Mainland Greeks, but I am interested in seeing.

I haven't found the map but I will send it here as soon as I find it again.

Johnny ola
11-04-2019, 07:13 PM
Many places of Asia minor,especially the area of Smyrna,were repopulated with Greeks from the islands and the mainland after the 17th century so it's completely normal to have a more "northern" pull.

I would like also a G25 for Costantinoupoli Greeks...if i am not mistaken on gedmatch some people were very Thracian/Bulgar like with heavily slavic admixture.I will wait for it thought!!!

Greekscholar
11-05-2019, 01:46 AM
I would like also a G25 for Costantinoupoli Greeks...if i am not mistaken on gedmatch some people were very Thracian/Bulgar like with heavily slavic admixture.I will wait for it thought!!!

Sikeliot and I found some very different genetic profiles for different Constantinople Greeks. The two samples I found (plotted on my K15 PCA) are slightly north of Aegean Islanders, and slightly south of Maniotes. Sikeliot's finds were more like Mainland Greeks from Macedonia or Thrace. As an imperial capital, I think it is likely Greeks of all kinds lived, worked, and traded there. Thrace is next door, the islands are just a boat ride away. At any rate, here are some simple 4-population models for some average Greek populations using G25. I include myself for NE Aegean, although I think it is likely my very low ARM_LBA is an error based on my raw data set from Ancestry.com.

At any rate you will see that Steppe-like ancestry is present in all of these averages. Using CZE_Early_Slav is the high end estimate model and that source population likely includes Iron Age Balkan groups that are part of modern Greek ancestry as well.

Target: Greek_Kos
Distance: 1.2836% / 0.01283587
Aggregated
45.0 GRC_Mycenaean
25.4 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
20.6 ARM_LBA
9.0 CZE_Early_Slav

Target: Greek_Crete
Distance: 1.3955% / 0.01395548
Aggregated
38.0 GRC_Mycenaean
28.2 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
17.0 ARM_LBA
16.8 CZE_Early_Slav

Target: Greek_Phokaia
Distance: 1.8849% / 0.01884949
Aggregated
41.2 GRC_Mycenaean
26.0 CZE_Early_Slav
17.8 ARM_LBA
15.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA

Target: Greek_Smyrna
Distance: 1.6104% / 0.01610409
Aggregated
41.6 GRC_Mycenaean
26.6 CZE_Early_Slav
20.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
11.8 ARM_LBA

Target: GS_scaled
Distance: 1.9921% / 0.01992072
Aggregated
40.8 GRC_Mycenaean
31.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
27.4 CZE_Early_Slav
0.8 ARM_LBA

Target: Greek
Distance: 1.5503% / 0.01550283
Aggregated
44.8 GRC_Mycenaean
38.6 CZE_Early_Slav
9.8 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
6.8 ARM_LBA

Sikeliot
11-05-2019, 02:30 AM
Sikeliot and I found some very different genetic profiles for different Constantinople Greeks. The two samples I found (plotted on my K15 PCA) are slightly north of Aegean Islanders, and slightly south of Maniotes. Sikeliot's finds were more like Mainland Greeks from Macedonia or Thrace. As an imperial capital, I think it is likely Greeks of all kinds lived, worked, and traded there. Thrace is next door, the islands are just a boat ride away. At any rate, here are some simple 4-population models for some average Greek populations using G25. I include myself for NE Aegean, although I think it is likely my very low ARM_LBA is an error based on my raw data set from Ancestry.com.

At any rate you will see that Steppe-like ancestry is present in all of these averages. Using CZE_Early_Slav is the high end estimate model and that source population likely includes Iron Age Balkan groups that are part of modern Greek ancestry as well.

Target: Greek_Kos
Distance: 1.2836% / 0.01283587
Aggregated
45.0 GRC_Mycenaean
25.4 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
20.6 ARM_LBA
9.0 CZE_Early_Slav

Target: Greek_Crete
Distance: 1.3955% / 0.01395548
Aggregated
38.0 GRC_Mycenaean
28.2 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
17.0 ARM_LBA
16.8 CZE_Early_Slav

Target: Greek_Phokaia
Distance: 1.8849% / 0.01884949
Aggregated
41.2 GRC_Mycenaean
26.0 CZE_Early_Slav
17.8 ARM_LBA
15.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA

Target: Greek_Smyrna
Distance: 1.6104% / 0.01610409
Aggregated
41.6 GRC_Mycenaean
26.6 CZE_Early_Slav
20.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
11.8 ARM_LBA

Target: GS_scaled
Distance: 1.9921% / 0.01992072
Aggregated
40.8 GRC_Mycenaean
31.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
27.4 CZE_Early_Slav
0.8 ARM_LBA

Target: Greek
Distance: 1.5503% / 0.01550283
Aggregated
44.8 GRC_Mycenaean
38.6 CZE_Early_Slav
9.8 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
6.8 ARM_LBA



Here are the Sicilians, not sure it really works for them but you are the closest to the East Sicilians, even more so than to the Cretans or people from Kos. I notice mainland southerners have more Armenia_LBA and less Levant than the Sicilians.

West Sicily is the closest to being a tripartite mixture of Aegean, Steppe, and Levantine.

Sicilian_West
Distance: 2.5522% / 0.02552187
40.2 GRC_Mycenaean
32.0 CZE_Early_Slav
27.8 Levant_Canaanite_MBA

Sicilian_East
Distance: 2.1012% / 0.02101179
45.4 GRC_Mycenaean
26.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
24.6 CZE_Early_Slav
4.0 ARM_LBA

Mainland southerners:

Italian_Apulia
Distance: 1.6500% / 0.01650006
50.2 GRC_Mycenaean
22.8 CZE_Early_Slav
18.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
9.0 ARM_LBA

Italian_Calabria
Distance: 1.5872% / 0.01587192
50.4 GRC_Mycenaean
24.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
16.2 CZE_Early_Slav
9.4 ARM_LBA

Italian_Campania
Distance: 1.5901% / 0.01590076
48.4 GRC_Mycenaean
22.6 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
20.8 CZE_Early_Slav
8.2 ARM_LBA

Italian_Basilica
Distance: 1.4563% / 0.01456348
47.8 GRC_Mycenaean
23.2 CZE_Early_Slav
19.8 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
9.2 ARM_LBA

Greekscholar
11-05-2019, 02:45 AM
Thanks. The ancestral Steppe like group would be mostly different for Italians, but the basic 4 part model should still work and produce good fits. I am not surprised that I am so close to Sicily, or any part of Southern Italy on a 3 or 4 part PCA. My feeling is that as we get G25 samples from more Greek groups, especially NE Aegean/Cyclades/Western Asia Minor, they will cluster closely with Southern Italians.

Distance to: Greek_Smyrna

0.01426098 Italian_Apulia
0.01638514 Italian_Basilica
0.01695064 Italian_Abruzzo
0.01699899 Italian_South
0.01792591 Italian_Molise
0.01985599 Italian_Campania
0.02021721 Greek_Phokaia
0.02104149 Greek_Crete
0.02264889 Sicilian_East
0.02615863 Italian_Marche
0.02675245 Italian_Piedmont_o
0.02721776 Italian_Lazio
0.02723338 Greek
0.02817072 Italian_Calabria
0.02895551 Sicilian_West
0.02982227 Italian_Umbria
0.03101560 Ashkenazi_Jew
0.03200050 Greek_Kos
0.03225335 Maltese
0.03458404 Albanian
0.03664537 Italian_Tuscany
0.04023006 Italian_Jew
0.04440605 Sephardic_Jew
0.04466791 Italian_Piedmont
0.04762515 Swiss_Italian

Distance to: GS_scaled

0.02360760 Italian_Basilica
0.02362643 Greek_Smyrna
0.02420907 Italian_Campania
0.02439935 Italian_Apulia
0.02546540 Greek_Crete
0.02733918 Italian_South
0.02847257 Italian_Calabria
0.02863040 Italian_Abruzzo
0.02914403 Italian_Molise
0.02924966 Italian_Piedmont_o
0.02956282 Greek_Phokaia
0.02999596 Sicilian_East
0.03141949 Greek_Kos
0.03449648 Ashkenazi_Jew
0.03503279 Italian_Lazio
0.03558977 Maltese
0.03641634 Sicilian_West
0.03701575 Italian_Jew
0.03813117 Greek
0.03829590 Italian_Marche
0.03992317 Italian_Umbria
0.04302467 Sephardic_Jew
0.04377011 Romaniote_Jew
0.04545872 Albanian
0.04796332 Italian_Tuscany

Sikeliot
11-05-2019, 02:48 AM
Thanks. The ancestral Steppe like group would be mostly different for Italians, but the basic 4 part model should still work and produce good fits. I am not surprised that I am so close to Sicily, or any part of Southern Italy on a 3 or 4 part PCA. My feeling is that as we get G25 samples from more Greek groups, especially NE Aegean/Cyclades/Western Asia Minor, they will cluster closely with Southern Italians.

My expectation is North Aegean and Cyclades will plot with Basilicata and Apulia, while some of the Dodecanese islands might be close to Calabria but with slightly different sources. Sicily seems to be in a camp of its own due to having more Afroasiatic ancestry (Berber/Levant/Arabian).

Overall I think we can see more Greco-Anatolian ancestry on the mainland, and more Afroasiatic in Sicily. The Steppe element may also be more 'Slavic' like on the mainland.

Greekscholar
11-05-2019, 03:06 AM
My expectation is North Aegean and Cyclades will plot with Basilicata and Apulia, while some of the Dodecanese islands might be close to Calabria but with slightly different sources. Sicily seems to be in a camp of its own due to having more Afroasiatic ancestry (Berber/Levant/Arabian).

Overall I think we can see more Greco-Anatolian ancestry on the mainland, and more Afroasiatic in Sicily. The Steppe element may also be more 'Slavic' like on the mainland.

Your hypothesis would seem to have some support. Does anyone know who (or what) the Piedmont outlier is?

Distance to: Greek_Kos

0.01562527 Greek_Crete
0.02270001 Italian_Calabria
0.02380579 Italian_Piedmont_o
0.02488205 Italian_Campania
0.02790760 Italian_Basilica
0.02985002 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.02985454 Italian_Apulia
0.03020131 Italian_South
0.03032604 Romaniote_Jew
0.03095108 Italian_Jew
0.03132497 Cypriot
0.03200050 Greek_Smyrna
0.03328168 Ashkenazi_Jew
0.03355073 Sephardic_Jew
0.03429898 Sicilian_East
0.03597000 Italian_Abruzzo
0.03676424 Greek_Phokaia
0.03748136 Italian_Molise
0.03800547 Maltese
0.04018548 Syrian_Jew
0.04375203 Sicilian_West
0.04532568 Italian_Lazio
0.04762857 Druze
0.04904816 Italian_Umbria
0.04954863 Italian_Marche

Sikeliot
11-05-2019, 12:36 PM
Your hypothesis would seem to have some support. Does anyone know who (or what) the Piedmont outlier is?

Distance to: Greek_Kos

0.01562527 Greek_Crete
0.02270001 Italian_Calabria
0.02380579 Italian_Piedmont_o
0.02488205 Italian_Campania
0.02790760 Italian_Basilica
0.02985002 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.02985454 Italian_Apulia
0.03020131 Italian_South
0.03032604 Romaniote_Jew
0.03095108 Italian_Jew
0.03132497 Cypriot
0.03200050 Greek_Smyrna
0.03328168 Ashkenazi_Jew
0.03355073 Sephardic_Jew
0.03429898 Sicilian_East
0.03597000 Italian_Abruzzo
0.03676424 Greek_Phokaia
0.03748136 Italian_Molise
0.03800547 Maltese
0.04018548 Syrian_Jew
0.04375203 Sicilian_West
0.04532568 Italian_Lazio
0.04762857 Druze
0.04904816 Italian_Umbria
0.04954863 Italian_Marche

My expectation definitely was Kos being close to Calabria and I was right. Calabrians might vary depending on province though, I'd expect Reggio Calabria and Vibo Valentia to be closest.

Genetique
11-05-2019, 01:44 PM
My expectation definitely was Kos being close to Calabria and I was right. Calabrians might vary depending on province though, I'd expect Reggio Calabria and Vibo Valentia to be closest.

It would be good to have cosentians samples even if I suspect a intra-provincial variation (that is probably sharp).

Proximity of Reggio and Vibo can be explained by Byzantine era I think.

Johnny ola
11-05-2019, 03:08 PM
Sikeliot and I found some very different genetic profiles for different Constantinople Greeks. The two samples I found (plotted on my K15 PCA) are slightly north of Aegean Islanders, and slightly south of Maniotes. Sikeliot's finds were more like Mainland Greeks from Macedonia or Thrace. As an imperial capital, I think it is likely Greeks of all kinds lived, worked, and traded there. Thrace is next door, the islands are just a boat ride away. At any rate, here are some simple 4-population models for some average Greek populations using G25. I include myself for NE Aegean, although I think it is likely my very low ARM_LBA is an error based on my raw data set from Ancestry.com.

At any rate you will see that Steppe-like ancestry is present in all of these averages. Using CZE_Early_Slav is the high end estimate model and that source population likely includes Iron Age Balkan groups that are part of modern Greek ancestry as well.

Target: Greek_Kos
Distance: 1.2836% / 0.01283587
Aggregated
45.0 GRC_Mycenaean
25.4 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
20.6 ARM_LBA
9.0 CZE_Early_Slav

Target: Greek_Crete
Distance: 1.3955% / 0.01395548
Aggregated
38.0 GRC_Mycenaean
28.2 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
17.0 ARM_LBA
16.8 CZE_Early_Slav

Target: Greek_Phokaia
Distance: 1.8849% / 0.01884949
Aggregated
41.2 GRC_Mycenaean
26.0 CZE_Early_Slav
17.8 ARM_LBA
15.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA

Target: Greek_Smyrna
Distance: 1.6104% / 0.01610409
Aggregated
41.6 GRC_Mycenaean
26.6 CZE_Early_Slav
20.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
11.8 ARM_LBA

Target: GS_scaled
Distance: 1.9921% / 0.01992072
Aggregated
40.8 GRC_Mycenaean
31.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
27.4 CZE_Early_Slav
0.8 ARM_LBA

Target: Greek
Distance: 1.5503% / 0.01550283
Aggregated
44.8 GRC_Mycenaean
38.6 CZE_Early_Slav
9.8 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
6.8 ARM_LBA



Greek_Trabzon is by far the most outlier xddd :P


Target: Greek_Trabzon
Distance: 1.0893% / 0.01089345
Aggregated
24.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
20.6 RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya
16.2 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kalavan
15.0 GRC_Minoan_Lassithi
10.8 Levant_ISR_C
6.6 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
3.8 GEO_CHG
2.6 Anatolia_IA

Greekscholar
11-05-2019, 09:41 PM
Here is the post I was looking for. Nearly all the individual Mainland/Island/Anatolian Greek samples run through Sorcelow's G25 calculator.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18490-23andme-quot-East-Med-Continuum-quot-BETA-results-consolidated&p=615037&viewfull=1#post615037

madmjl2181
11-06-2019, 03:05 PM
Confused by my aunt's results. Like my mother, she is 100% Sicilian and from Central Sicily. Again, I am NO expert reading the results using gedmatch but am kind of getting a hang of it. What stands out to me is that she seems to shift a lot toward Northern West Asia, and not the Levant or other parts of the "middle east". Her kit is as follows: QY2258313. I would be forever grateful if someone with a better understanding of the tools than I could take a look. I also think her results contribute to the general collection of Sicilian kits for research and discourse.

Sikeliot
11-07-2019, 02:18 AM
Confused by my aunt's results. Like my mother, she is 100% Sicilian and from Central Sicily. Again, I am NO expert reading the results using gedmatch but am kind of getting a hang of it. What stands out to me is that she seems to shift a lot toward Northern West Asia, and not the Levant or other parts of the "middle east". Her kit is as follows: QY2258313. I would be forever grateful if someone with a better understanding of the tools than I could take a look. I also think her results contribute to the general collection of Sicilian kits for research and discourse.

I actually notice she is heavily "East Med" on Eurogenes and Levant shifted. On MDLP and Dodecad she also has North African.

MDLP seems to have her as Cretan + 6-8% North African.

Sikeliot
11-07-2019, 02:34 AM
Confused by my aunt's results. Like my mother, she is 100% Sicilian and from Central Sicily. Again, I am NO expert reading the results using gedmatch but am kind of getting a hang of it. What stands out to me is that she seems to shift a lot toward Northern West Asia, and not the Levant or other parts of the "middle east". Her kit is as follows: QY2258313. I would be forever grateful if someone with a better understanding of the tools than I could take a look. I also think her results contribute to the general collection of Sicilian kits for research and discourse.

Here is how she comes out on different calculators. She seems to have elevated West Asian, Levantine, AND North African which makes her on the outlying end for Sicily.

MDLP K16:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 39.07
2 Neolithic 25.24
3 Steppe 10.55
4 NearEast 8.79
5 NorthAfrican 7.12
6 NorthEastEuropean 6.76
7 Oceanic 1.11
8 Subsaharian 0.96
9 EastAfrican 0.41

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Italian) 3.61
2 Jew (Bulgaria) 3.65
3 Jew (Ashkenazi) 4.09
4 Jew (Ashkenazim) 4.12
5 Jew (Turkey) 4.4
6 Maltese (Malta) 4.49
7 Italian (SouthItaly) 4.56
8 Jew (Algeria) 4.68
9 Jew (Sephardim) 4.71
10 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.77
11 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 5.18
12 Jew (Morocco) 5.46
13 Jew (Ashkenazi) 6.67
14 Italian (Abruzzo) 7.04
15 Greek (Athens) 7.67
16 Greek (Greece) 8.16
17 Greek (Macedonia) 9.17
18 Greek (Peloponnes) 9.31
19 Jew (Belmonte) 9.7
20 Greek (Greece) 9.73

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.4% Italian (SouthItaly) + 44.6% Jew (Morocco) @ 2.09
2 50.8% Italian (SouthItaly) + 49.2% Jew (Algeria) @ 2.14
3 65.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 34.1% Spanish (Canarias) @ 2.2
4 71.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 28.9% Jew (Libya) @ 2.23
5 54.2% Sicilian (Sicily) + 45.8% Jew (Morocco) @ 2.28
6 57.7% Jew (Belmonte) + 42.3% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.3
7 59.7% Jew (Morocco) + 40.3% Greek (Athens) @ 2.39
8 50.7% Jew (Algeria) + 49.3% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 2.4
9 73.2% Sicilian (Sicily) + 26.8% Jew (Tunisian) @ 2.41
10 66% Jew (Algeria) + 34% Greek (Greece) @ 2.42
11 72% Jew (Algeria) + 28% Albanian (Albania) @ 2.44
12 72.7% Jew (Algeria) + 27.3% Greek (Thessaloniki) @ 2.45
13 66% Jew (Morocco) + 34% Greek (Greece) @ 2.54
14 55.1% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 44.9% Jew (Algeria) @ 2.56
15 51.5% Maltese (Malta) + 48.5% Jew (Algeria) @ 2.58
16 55% Maltese (Malta) + 45% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) @ 2.6
17 70.9% Jew (Algeria) + 29.1% Greek (Greece) @ 2.67
18 51.9% Maltese (Malta) + 48.1% Jew (Sephardim) @ 2.81
19 80.9% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) + 19.1% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.86
20 80.3% Maltese (Malta) + 19.7% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 2.87


MDLP K23:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 39.21
2 European_Early_Farmers 19.68
3 Near_East 11.36
4 North_African 10.32
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 7.67
6 South_Central_Asian 7.33
7 Austronesian 1.77
8 Subsaharian 0.97
9 Melano_Polynesian 0.66
10 East_African 0.58
11 South_Indian 0.25
12 Archaic_Human 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Jew ( ) 5.83
2 French_Jew ( ) 6.08
3 Sicilian_East ( ) 6.12
4 Turk_Jew ( ) 6.2
5 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 6.42
6 Cretan ( ) 6.45
7 Ashkenazi ( ) 6.9
8 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 7.05
9 Romanian_Jew ( ) 7.12
10 Syrian_Jew ( ) 7.25
11 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 8.53
12 Tunisian_Jew ( ) 9.13
13 Moroccan_Jew ( ) 9.23
14 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 9.26
15 Sicilian_Center ( ) 9.27
16 Italian_South ( ) 9.4
17 Greek ( ) 9.46
18 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 9.53
19 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 9.55
20 Maltese ( ) 10

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.9% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 10.1% Mozabite ( ) @ 2.21
2 93.9% Cretan ( ) + 6.1% Mozabite ( ) @ 2.52
3 85.3% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 14.7% Georgian_Imereti ( ) @ 2.57
4 84.5% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 15.5% Georgian_Megrelia ( ) @ 2.59
5 84% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 16% Georgian ( ) @ 2.65
6 83.9% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 16.1% Abkhasian ( ) @ 2.7
7 84.8% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 15.2% Georgian_Svan ( ) @ 2.7
8 85.3% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 14.7% Georgian_Tbilisi ( ) @ 2.71
9 84.2% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 15.8% Adjara ( ) @ 2.84
10 85.8% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 14.2% Georgian_Laz ( ) @ 2.88
11 81.5% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 18.5% Turk_Trabzon ( ) @ 2.91
12 60.7% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 39.3% Azov_Greek ( ) @ 2.93
13 55% Libyan_Jew ( ) + 45% Azov_Greek ( ) @ 2.97
14 92.9% Cretan ( ) + 7.1% Berber_WGA ( ) @ 2.98
15 67.1% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 32.9% Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) @ 3.03
16 82% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 18% Kakheti ( ) @ 3.05
17 74.7% Maltese ( ) + 25.3% Assyrian_Arzni ( ) @ 3.07
18 86% Italian_Jew ( ) + 14% Kabardin ( ) @ 3.1
19 93.4% Cretan ( ) + 6.6% Saharawi ( ) @ 3.12
20 84.4% Sephardic_Jew ( ) + 15.6% Circassian ( ) @ 3.13


Eurogenes K13:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 33.06
2 West_Med 21.7
3 North_Atlantic 15.62
4 West_Asian 15.3
5 Red_Sea 6.13
6 Baltic 4.92
7 Oceanian 1.22
8 Sub-Saharan 0.65
9 East_Asian 0.64
10 Northeast_African 0.49
11 South_Asian 0.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 2.67
2 East_Sicilian 5.02
3 Sephardic_Jewish 5.86
4 Central_Greek 6.15
5 Italian_Jewish 6.54
6 Algerian_Jewish 6.93
7 Ashkenazi 7.37
8 West_Sicilian 7.76
9 Italian_Abruzzo 8.44
10 Tunisian_Jewish 9.99
11 Libyan_Jewish 10.93
12 Cyprian 12.3
13 Greek_Thessaly 13.12
14 Tuscan 14.57
15 Lebanese_Muslim 15.97
16 Syrian 17.26
17 Turkish 18.77
18 Samaritan 19.08
19 Jordanian 20.16
20 Lebanese_Christian 20.18

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.8% Cyprian + 28.2% Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.24
2 71.2% Cyprian + 28.8% Spanish_Valencia @ 1.31
3 70.7% Cyprian + 29.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 1.36
4 70.3% Cyprian + 29.7% Portuguese @ 1.39
5 71.7% Cyprian + 28.3% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 1.4
6 73.3% Cyprian + 26.7% Spanish_Cantabria @ 1.43
7 71.9% Cyprian + 28.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.49
8 61.6% West_Sicilian + 38.4% Cyprian @ 1.52
9 70.4% Cyprian + 29.6% Spanish_Andalucia @ 1.52
10 70% Cyprian + 30% Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.53
11 73.5% Cyprian + 26.5% Spanish_Aragon @ 1.62
12 90.8% South_Italian + 9.2% Palestinian @ 1.69
13 54.3% Cyprian + 45.7% Tuscan @ 1.7
14 90.2% South_Italian + 9.8% Samaritan @ 1.7
15 90.7% South_Italian + 9.3% Lebanese_Christian @ 1.71
16 82.8% South_Italian + 17.2% Tunisian_Jewish @ 1.73
17 91% South_Italian + 9% Lebanese_Druze @ 1.76
18 63.3% Cyprian + 36.7% North_Italian @ 1.76
19 90.9% South_Italian + 9.1% Jordanian @ 1.76
20 88.8% South_Italian + 11.2% Lebanese_Muslim @ 1.77


Eurogenes K15:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29.81
2 West_Med 18.05
3 West_Asian 16
4 Atlantic 15.88
5 Red_Sea 6.32
6 North_Sea 6.09
7 Eastern_Euro 2.78
8 Baltic 2.1
9 Oceanian 1.03
10 Northeast_African 0.97
11 South_Asian 0.58
12 Sub-Saharan 0.38

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 4.77
2 Sephardic_Jewish 5.94
3 East_Sicilian 6.23
4 Italian_Jewish 6.44
5 Central_Greek 6.85
6 West_Sicilian 6.98
7 Italian_Abruzzo 7.52
8 Algerian_Jewish 7.55
9 Ashkenazi 8.86
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.41
11 Greek 11.79
12 Cyprian 12.78
13 Tuscan 12.93
14 Libyan_Jewish 13.79
15 Greek_Thessaly 13.83
16 Lebanese_Muslim 16.32
17 Syrian 17.45
18 Turkish 17.59
19 North_Italian 19.28
20 Samaritan 19.62

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.4% Cyprian + 24.6% French_Basque @ 2.37
2 68.7% Cyprian + 31.3% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.48
3 66.7% Cyprian + 33.3% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.61
4 70.1% Cyprian + 29.9% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.69
5 68.3% Cyprian + 31.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.89
6 70.6% Cyprian + 29.4% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.93
7 71.4% Cyprian + 28.6% Southwest_French @ 3.16
8 67.6% Cyprian + 32.4% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.32
9 67.3% Cyprian + 32.7% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.37
10 67% West_Sicilian + 33% Cyprian @ 3.51
11 68.9% Cyprian + 31.1% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.59
12 69.1% Cyprian + 30.9% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.62
13 58.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 41.5% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.7
14 79.7% West_Sicilian + 20.3% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.72
15 78.6% West_Sicilian + 21.4% Assyrian @ 3.77
16 79.6% West_Sicilian + 20.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.78
17 80% West_Sicilian + 20% Armenian @ 3.8
18 61.9% South_Italian + 38.1% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.89
19 68.1% Cyprian + 31.9% Portuguese @ 3.89
20 60.8% Cyprian + 39.2% North_Italian @ 3.9


Dodecad K12b:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 34.26
2 Atlantic_Med 26.63
3 Southwest_Asian 13.37
4 North_European 10.95
5 Gedrosia 7.32
6 Northwest_African 6.75
7 East_African 0.4
8 South_Asian 0.31

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian (Dodecad) 5.44
2 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 5.73
3 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 6.39
4 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 6.66
5 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 6.98
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 7.78
7 C_Italian (Dodecad) 11.66
8 Greek (Dodecad) 11.71
9 O_Italian (Dodecad) 14.95
10 Tuscan (HGDP) 15.81
11 TSI30 (Metspalu) 16.73
12 Cypriots (Behar) 16.84
13 Turkish (Dodecad) 19.33
14 Lebanese (Behar) 19.67
15 Turks (Behar) 21.56
16 Syrians (Behar) 22.56
17 N_Italian (Dodecad) 22.56
18 Jordanians (Behar) 23.22
19 Druze (HGDP) 23.29
20 North_Italian (HGDP) 23.6

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12.3% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 2.16
2 89.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 10.1% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.17
3 89.8% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 10.2% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 2.18
4 87.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12.3% German (Dodecad) @ 2.19
5 88.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 11.8% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 2.24
6 88.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 11.1% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 2.26
7 89.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 10.9% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 2.33
8 88.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 11.5% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.35
9 88.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 11.5% English (Dodecad) @ 2.37
10 89.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 10.9% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 2.37
11 89.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 10.9% Irish (Dodecad) @ 2.4
12 88.4% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 11.6% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 2.4
13 88.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 11.1% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 2.46
14 88.8% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 11.2% British (Dodecad) @ 2.51
15 88.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 11.3% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 2.53
16 87.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12.8% Hungarians (Behar) @ 2.59
17 87.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12.9% French (Dodecad) @ 2.9
18 77% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 23% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 2.92
19 87.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12.8% French (HGDP) @ 2.98
20 90.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 9.5% Polish (Dodecad) @ 3.02


PuntDNA-L K13:

# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 37.48
2 West_Asia 24.65
3 SW_Asia 18.35
4 NE_Europe 14.8
5 SE_Asia 1.18
6 West_Africa 1.14
7 South_Africa 1.05
8 Oceania 0.67
9 South_Asia 0.45
10 Siberia 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jew 3.67
2 Italian_Sicilian 3.7
3 Ashkenazy_Jew 3.73
4 Italian_Abruzzo 8.13
5 Greek_Central 8.64
6 Cypriot 11.86
7 Greek_Thessaly 13.53
8 Albanian 14.09
9 Turkish 14.19
10 Kosovar 15.4
11 Italian_Tuscan 15.46
12 Turkish_Kayseri 16.25
13 Syrian 16.41
14 Lebanese_Christian 16.49
15 Lebanese_Druze 17.12
16 Turkish_Aydin 17.33
17 Jordanian 17.77
18 Lebanese_Muslim 17.94
19 Bulgarian 20
20 Macedonian 20.34

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 33.8% French_Basque @ 2.35
2 90.3% Ashkenazy_Jew + 9.7% Egyptian_Copts @ 2.49
3 88.1% Ashkenazy_Jew + 11.9% Palestinian @ 2.53
4 86.5% Ashkenazy_Jew + 13.5% Jordanian @ 2.54
5 50.8% Sephardic_Jew + 49.2% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 2.55
6 94.2% Italian_Sicilian + 5.8% Bedouin @ 2.57
7 90.3% Ashkenazy_Jew + 9.7% Egyptian @ 2.58
8 94.2% Ashkenazy_Jew + 5.8% Bedouin @ 2.61
9 93.4% Ashkenazy_Jew + 6.6% Saudi @ 2.62
10 91% Ashkenazy_Jew + 9% Moroccan @ 2.62
11 89.3% Ashkenazy_Jew + 10.7% Samaritan_Jew @ 2.63
12 68.2% Lebanese_Christian + 31.8% French_Basque @ 2.63
13 67.3% Lebanese_Druze + 32.7% French_Basque @ 2.66
14 93.6% Italian_Sicilian + 6.4% Saudi @ 2.67
15 92.1% Ashkenazy_Jew + 7.9% Yemeni @ 2.69
16 89.6% Ashkenazy_Jew + 10.4% Tunisian @ 2.71
17 50.5% Sephardic_Jew + 49.5% Italian_Sicilian @ 2.73
18 77.1% Sephardic_Jew + 22.9% Greek_Central @ 2.74
19 97.3% Sephardic_Jew + 2.7% Biaka_Pygmy @ 2.74
20 89.1% Italian_Sicilian + 10.9% Palestinian @ 2.75

Greekscholar
11-07-2019, 02:41 AM
Confused by my aunt's results. Like my mother, she is 100% Sicilian and from Central Sicily. Again, I am NO expert reading the results using gedmatch but am kind of getting a hang of it. What stands out to me is that she seems to shift a lot toward Northern West Asia, and not the Levant or other parts of the "middle east". Her kit is as follows: QY2258313. I would be forever grateful if someone with a better understanding of the tools than I could take a look. I also think her results contribute to the general collection of Sicilian kits for research and discourse.

K36 seems to indicate a significant enough amount of North African to make her closest population Malta. MDLP K16 has her closest Oracles scores as Jewish populations. My take based on these two tests is you are looking at Levant and North Africa, rather than Asia Minor as the source of her shift. I base this on the Caucasian score in MDLP, which is just above average for a Sicilian on this test (37% vs 39%,) and Near East + North Africa which is higher. (11% vs.16%) Enhanced Levant + North Africa instead of Asia Minor would be expected (based on what I have seen) for a Sicilian. G25 would likely help clear that up. Did you ever find out on GEDmatch whether you have any Jewish segments?

Kit QY2258313

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 39.07
2 Neolithic 25.24
3 Steppe 10.55
4 NearEast 8.79
5 NorthAfrican 7.12
6 NorthEastEuropean 6.76
7 Oceanic 1.11
8 Subsaharian 0.96
9 EastAfrican 0.41

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Italian) 3.61
2 Jew (Bulgaria) 3.65
3 Jew (Ashkenazi) 4.09
4 Jew (Ashkenazim) 4.12
5 Jew (Turkey) 4.4
6 Maltese (Malta) 4.49
7 Italian (SouthItaly) 4.56
8 Jew (Algeria) 4.68
9 Jew (Sephardim) 4.71
10 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.77

Sikeliot
11-07-2019, 02:57 AM
Enhanced Levant + North Africa instead of Asia Minor would be expected (based on what I have seen) for a Sicilian.

This is one of the things differentiating some of these Sicilians from Aegean islanders. Aegean islanders would be more likely to have elevated Anatolian, due to migration to the islands from Anatolia. Some Sicilians end up closer to say, North African Jews and Sephardim rather than Cypriots.

Remember also the Maltese are Sicilians, they came from Sicily and thus their genetic variation is a subset of Sicily's.

madmjl2181
11-07-2019, 06:19 AM
K36 seems to indicate a significant enough amount of North African to make her closest population Malta. MDLP K16 has her closest Oracles scores as Jewish populations. My take based on these two tests is you are looking at Levant and North Africa, rather than Asia Minor as the source of her shift. I base this on the Caucasian score in MDLP, which is just above average for a Sicilian on this test (37% vs 39%,) and Near East + North Africa which is higher. (11% vs.16%) Enhanced Levant + North Africa instead of Asia Minor would be expected (based on what I have seen) for a Sicilian. G25 would likely help clear that up. Did you ever find out on GEDmatch whether you have any Jewish segments?

Kit QY2258313

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 39.07
2 Neolithic 25.24
3 Steppe 10.55
4 NearEast 8.79
5 NorthAfrican 7.12
6 NorthEastEuropean 6.76
7 Oceanic 1.11
8 Subsaharian 0.96
9 EastAfrican 0.41

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Italian) 3.61
2 Jew (Bulgaria) 3.65
3 Jew (Ashkenazi) 4.09
4 Jew (Ashkenazim) 4.12
5 Jew (Turkey) 4.4
6 Maltese (Malta) 4.49
7 Italian (SouthItaly) 4.56
8 Jew (Algeria) 4.68
9 Jew (Sephardim) 4.71
10 Sicilian (Sicily) 4.77


Here is how she comes out on different calculators. She seems to have elevated West Asian, Levantine, AND North African which makes her on the outlying end for Sicily.

MDLP K16:


MDLP K23:


Eurogenes K13:


Eurogenes K15:


Dodecad K12b:


PuntDNA-L K13:

you guys are awesome, thank you! As for the Jewish segments, I am not sure what do in that regard. Another user seems to think that my mother's family has a mostly Seph. Jewish input.