PDA

View Full Version : what is a mountain jew origin ?



yaku
10-28-2019, 02:34 PM
hey so both of my parents are jews from the north caucasus my father from Chechnya my mother is from Kabardino-Balkaria
is there any information about caucasus jews aka mountain jews DNA ?

StillWater
10-28-2019, 02:56 PM
I always wanted to start a thread on Mizrachim, similar to the one on Western Jews, but never got around to it. Mountain Jews are Mizrachim. Here is a page on Juhuro YDNA: https://jewishdna.net/JewishCtable.html (they have it apart from the Mizrachi page, but that's their odd choice). I suspect that autosomally, Mountain Jews are a mix of Iraqi and Iranian Jews with minor Caucasus input.

Have you taken a DNA test?

josh w.
10-28-2019, 02:56 PM
hey so both of my parents are jews from the north caucasus my father from Chechnya my mother is from Kabardino-Balkaria
is there any information about caucasus jews aka mountain jews DNA ?

They are supposedly Persian in origin (Babylon?). They speak a Persian dialect.

Targum
10-28-2019, 05:16 PM
U.S. (Mostly NYC) Juhuro have a website:

https://www.beitjuhuro.com/

AbdoNumen
10-29-2019, 03:27 AM
Nice to see another Mountain Jew here!

On the whole, MJs are pretty diverse genetically, especially on the paternal side. We cluster closer to other Mesopotamian populations such as Assyrians as well as Georgian Jews and Iranian Jews, not surprisingly.
But every family has a unique story. There are some paternal lineages that are only found among Kaitak Jews while other lineages found only among Azerbaijani and southern Dagestani Jews and not north of Derbent.

There's a Mountain Jewish DNA project:

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/mountain-jewish-dna-project/about

josh w.
10-29-2019, 12:30 PM
They are supposedly Persian in origin (Babylon?). They speak a Persian dialect.

I was speaking about the origin. Later they mixed with other Mizrachis. Russia sent Ashkenazim to the area. At first the two groups were separate. More recently they were admixed. My closest Y match is from Georgia, but I think he had Russian Jewish origins. Ironically my mostly Jewish Y subclade is downstream from the Svans of Georgia.

StillWater
10-29-2019, 12:34 PM
I was speaking about the origin. Later they mixed with other Mizrachis. Russia sent Ashkenazim to the area. At first the two groups were separate. More recently they were admixed. My closest Y match is from Georgia, but I think he had Russian Jewish origins. Ironically my mostly Jewish Y subclade is downstream from the Svans of Georgia.

Recently enough that those who are mixed, know that they are.

josh w.
10-29-2019, 05:40 PM
Recently enough that those who are mixed, know that they are.

Not sure. It began when the Russians took over the Caucasus in the 1800s. They needed Russians in the area to prove the area was really Russian. At the very least, there was an increase in the number of Russian speakers in the Caucasus.

artemv
11-05-2019, 07:40 PM
Not sure. It began when the Russians took over the Caucasus in the 1800s. They needed Russians in the area to prove the area was really Russian. At the very least, there was an increase in the number of Russian speakers in the Caucasus.

For Jews born in USSR after 1920-s Russian become their first language, but that was not the case for the 19th century Ashenazy Jews, who lived in Russian Empire, most of them had little knowledge of Russian language. Many barely knew Russian, others spoke it with accent.
Russian Imperial authorities at that time didn't trust Jews, and even occationally tried to remove Jews from border regions of Russian Empire. They wouldn't resetle Jews to Georgia to get some loyal people there, that's for sure.

Authorities of Russian Empire didn't resettle Russians from Russia proper into 'ethnical' regions, until the beginning of 20th century. Until 1861 most ethnical Russians were peasants and were not free (same is true for most ethnic Georgians), and even after that it was considered that peasants should better stay where they live and pay rent to the landowners. The monarchy could call for cossaks to move to new lands, but they didn't do it. Generally, the population of Georgia was already East Orthodoxal, and it was easy to deal with local nobility.

Most ethnical Russians, who lived in Georgia where considered heretics in the Russia proper, like molokans, doukhobors or followers of some other "herecy".
I guess it was not that easy for Ashkenazy Jews from Pale of Settlement to move to Georgia. But level of antisemitism is traditionally low in Georgia, and those Jews who got a chance to move there would probably prefer to stay.