PDA

View Full Version : What's all this then?



italianguy
11-03-2019, 06:37 AM
23andMe recently updated their algorithm, raising my mother's Western Asian & North African percentages to 6.8%, but not breaking it down much further. She has always had some Middle Eastern DNA according to 23andMe but at almost 7%, I think this ancestry may be more recent than I originally thought. The family is Sicilian and the population from that part of the world has an extremely high degree of genetic diversity for historical and geographical reasons.

Reading Genealogical Musings blog post (https://genealogical-musings.blogspot.com/2017/04/finally-gedmatch-admixture-guide.html) explaining GEDmatch calculators suggested to me that the best admixture calculator for people with predominantly European ancestry is Eurogenes, so I decided to use this to see if it could find anything more specific than 23andMe. Here are my mother's K13 and K15 Oracle results:

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit M******

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 38.13
2 West_Med 16.43
3 East_Med 15.94
4 Baltic 12.1
5 West_Asian 10.19
6 Red_Sea 4.87
7 Sub-Saharan 1.2
8 Oceanian 0.64
9 South_Asian 0.5
10 Siberian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 French 9.73
2 Portuguese 10.84
3 North_Italian 11.23
4 Spanish_Cataluna 11.55
5 Spanish_Extremadura 11.6
6 Spanish_Murcia 11.94
7 Spanish_Galicia 11.99
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 12.16
9 West_German 13.03
10 Spanish_Valencia 13.19
11 Spanish_Andalucia 13.64
12 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 13.77
13 South_Dutch 13.85
14 Tuscan 13.99
15 Spanish_Cantabria 15.12
16 Spanish_Aragon 16.1
17 Romanian 16.64
18 Serbian 16.78
19 Southwest_French 16.87
20 Austrian 17.69

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.3% Southwest_English + 40.7% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.93
2 57.1% West_Scottish + 42.9% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.04
3 57.3% Irish + 42.7% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.25
4 62.7% Southwest_English + 37.3% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.57
5 69.6% Southwest_English + 30.4% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.76
6 60.6% West_Scottish + 39.4% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.84
7 69.1% Southwest_English + 30.9% Samaritan @ 3.86
8 66% Southwest_English + 34% Cyprian @ 3.91
9 52.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 47.8% Southwest_English @ 3.94
10 58% Orcadian + 42% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.99
11 83.5% French + 16.5% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.99
12 57.7% West_Scottish + 42.3% Italian_Jewish @ 4
13 54.5% Italian_Abruzzo + 45.5% West_Scottish @ 4
14 83.4% French + 16.6% Iranian_Jewish @ 4.03
15 60.8% Irish + 39.2% Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.04
16 66.8% Southwest_English + 33.2% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.06
17 63.1% Southwest_English + 36.9% Libyan_Jewish @ 4.06
18 60.7% Southeast_English + 39.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.09
19 53.5% West_Scottish + 46.5% South_Italian @ 4.09
20 60% Southwest_English + 40% Italian_Jewish @ 4.13

K13 Oracle 4:

Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 38.13
2 West_Med 16.43
3 East_Med 15.94
4 Baltic 12.10
5 West_Asian 10.19
6 Red_Sea 4.87
7 Sub-Saharan 1.20


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 French @ 11.105680
2 Portuguese @ 12.184319
3 North_Italian @ 12.593073
4 Spanish_Cataluna @ 12.984002
5 Spanish_Extremadura @ 12.990064
6 Spanish_Murcia @ 13.387050
7 Spanish_Galicia @ 13.526423
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 13.675100
9 Spanish_Valencia @ 14.785127
10 West_German @ 14.792045
11 Spanish_Andalucia @ 15.190239
12 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 15.415167
13 South_Dutch @ 15.800908
14 Tuscan @ 16.018736
15 Spanish_Cantabria @ 17.027666
16 Spanish_Aragon @ 18.102957
17 Romanian @ 18.945162
18 Southwest_French @ 18.980652
19 Serbian @ 19.033468
20 Austrian @ 20.028952

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Abruzzo +50% Southwest_English @ 4.373509


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Lebanese_Christian +25% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.284541


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++
1 Kurdish_Jewish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Spanish_Aragon @ 2.919453
2 Kurdish_Jewish + Southwest_English + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish @ 2.950162
3 Kurdish_Jewish + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.040684
4 Kurdish_Jewish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.072579
5 Kurdish_Jewish + Southeast_English + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish @ 3.077009
6 Iranian_Jewish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.080642
7 Lebanese_Christian + Spanish_Andalucia + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.122467
8 Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English + Spanish_Andalucia + West_Scottish @ 3.148823
9 Lebanese_Christian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.164977
10 Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English + Spanish_Extremadura + West_Scottish @ 3.166204
11 Irish + Kurdish_Jewish + Southwest_English + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.172992
12 Lebanese_Christian + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.173591
13 Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + West_Scottish @ 3.175317
14 Kurdish_Jewish + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.202790
15 Kurdish_Jewish + Southwest_English + Spanish_Murcia + West_Scottish @ 3.207353
16 Irish + Lebanese_Christian + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish @ 3.208448
17 Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Andalucia + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.210583
18 Iranian_Jewish + Southwest_English + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish @ 3.210724
19 Irish + Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.214100
20 Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.221763

K15 Oracle 2:

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:
Kit M******

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 24.89
2 Atlantic 23.33
3 East_Med 14.54
4 West_Med 12.33
5 West_Asian 8.71
6 Baltic 4.96
7 Red_Sea 4.94
8 Eastern_Euro 4.64
9 Sub-Saharan 1.07
10 Oceanian 0.42
11 South_Asian 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 French 9.66
2 North_Italian 11.23
3 Spanish_Galicia 11.56
4 Portuguese 11.58
5 Spanish_Extremadura 11.99
6 Spanish_Cataluna 12.05
7 Spanish_Murcia 12.31
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 12.73
9 South_Dutch 12.75
10 West_German 12.97
11 Tuscan 13
12 Serbian 13.84
13 Spanish_Valencia 15
14 Romanian 15.09
15 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 15.39
16 Spanish_Andalucia 15.5
17 Spanish_Cantabria 16.3
18 Austrian 16.45
19 Italian_Abruzzo 16.61
20 Southwest_English 16.73

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56.7% Orcadian + 43.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.29
2 55.6% Orcadian + 44.4% Italian_Jewish @ 2.89
3 61% Southwest_English + 39% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.96
4 57.5% Orcadian + 42.5% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.01
5 60.3% Southeast_English + 39.7% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.06
6 52.7% West_Sicilian + 47.3% Orcadian @ 3.13
7 54.7% Italian_Abruzzo + 45.3% Orcadian @ 3.16
8 56.2% West_Scottish + 43.8% Italian_Jewish @ 3.23
9 57.3% West_Scottish + 42.7% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.24
10 59.3% Southeast_English + 40.7% Italian_Jewish @ 3.25
11 60.2% Orcadian + 39.8% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.35
12 64.4% Southwest_English + 35.6% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.35
13 56.8% Irish + 43.2% Italian_Jewish @ 3.38
14 53% Orcadian + 47% South_Italian @ 3.42
15 60.1% Southwest_English + 39.9% Italian_Jewish @ 3.42
16 70.5% Southwest_English + 29.5% Samaritan @ 3.44
17 71.1% Southwest_English + 28.9% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.45
18 57.9% Irish + 42.1% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.48
19 81.8% French + 18.2% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.57
20 50.3% Orcadian + 49.7% East_Sicilian @ 3.58

K15 Oracle 4:

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 4-Ancestors Oracle
This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 24.89
2 Atlantic 23.33
3 East_Med 14.54
4 West_Med 12.33
5 West_Asian 8.71
6 Baltic 4.96
7 Red_Sea 4.94
8 Eastern_Euro 4.64
9 Sub-Saharan 1.07


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 French @ 11.212990
2 North_Italian @ 12.676696
3 Portuguese @ 13.083740
4 Spanish_Galicia @ 13.104730
5 Spanish_Extremadura @ 13.631581
6 Spanish_Cataluna @ 13.732336
7 Spanish_Murcia @ 14.020685
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 14.535901
9 South_Dutch @ 14.827790
10 Tuscan @ 15.013425
11 West_German @ 15.051588
12 Serbian @ 15.992929
13 Spanish_Valencia @ 17.187094
14 Romanian @ 17.418512
15 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 17.626530
16 Spanish_Andalucia @ 17.698900
17 Spanish_Cantabria @ 18.658257
18 Austrian @ 18.921677
19 Bulgarian @ 19.388655
20 Italian_Abruzzo @ 19.478973

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +50% West_Sicilian @ 3.596493


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +25% Samaritan +25% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.603427


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.020851
2 Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.178809
3 Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.317269
4 Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Aragon @ 2.318786
5 Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Murcia @ 2.366235
6 Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Spanish_Extremadura + West_Scottish @ 2.412173
7 Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Valencia @ 2.435264
8 Irish + Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.471831
9 Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + West_Scottish @ 2.477234
10 Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.477651
11 Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.491133
12 Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.499018
13 Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.545343
14 Orcadian + Orcadian + Samaritan + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.603427
15 Italian_Abruzzo + Orcadian + Orcadian + Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.606512
16 Orcadian + Orcadian + Sephardic_Jewish + Tuscan @ 2.607880
17 Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.609368
18 Orcadian + Orcadian + Samaritan + Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.611076
19 Irish + Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.625129
20 Lebanese_Christian + Orcadian + Spanish_Murcia + West_Scottish @ 2.629622

Over half of the K13 Oracle 2, K13 Oracle 4 and K15 Oracle 2 population mixtures include some form of Jewish. The exception to this rule is K15 Oracle 4 which appears to be overwhelmingly populated with combinations that include Lebanese Christian, Orcadian and some variant of Spanish. I don't know if these results necessarily indicate Jewish ancestry or if they could simply indicate the likelihood that this Middle Eastern ancestry more specifically originated in the Levant.
Do these Jewish and Lebanese matches make Levant ancestry highly likely?

P.S. The prominence of the Orcadian is a complete curve ball. I have no genealogical research indicating that any of the family came from Orkney but with it being such a small place I would think the population would have distinct markers meaning results like this could be significant, no?

msmarjoribanks
11-06-2019, 05:44 PM
Is your mother's ancestry anything but Sicilian to your knowledge?

What I am noticing is that none of the single results are close at all, with the closest being French at 9.73. That would make more sense if she was Sicilian mixed with NW Europe of some sort (which the breakdowns seem to suggest).

If you look at the spreadsheet, West Sicilian is (rounded for convenience) 21% N Atlantic, 7.6% Baltic, 23% W Med, 11% W Asian, 29% E Med, and 5% Red Sea. East Sicilian is 16.5% N Atlantic, 9% Baltic, 21% W Med, 14% W Asian, 30% E Med, and 6.3% Red Sea. Compared to that, your mother has much higher than expected N Atlantic (suggesting more NW European ancestry, probably), lower than expected W Med and E Med (the low E Med especially suggesting more NW Europe), higher than expected Baltic (same), W Asian in line or a little lower than expected, and then Red Sea only a little lower than expected.

So it looks like a mixed ancestry person, and the high Levant could really just be the Sicilian and expected mix therein.

The much lower distance for the Mixed Mode Population Sharing is consistent with this:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.3% Southwest_English + 40.7% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.93
2 57.1% West_Scottish + 42.9% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.04
3 57.3% Irish + 42.7% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.25
4 62.7% Southwest_English + 37.3% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.57
5 69.6% Southwest_English + 30.4% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.76

I would not take the specific choices of the populations too literally.

italianguy
11-06-2019, 05:53 PM
My apologies. I should have mentioned that my mother is only Sicilian on her mother's side. On her father's side, the research I have done points to him being of mostly British ancestry. Does that make these results more understandable?