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View Full Version : Afars, what groups are they genetically affiliated to?



Muslim-Arbegna
11-09-2019, 09:46 AM
Some people, especially Somalis say that Afars are the closest to Somalis genetically and "look Somali" compare to other Erythraeic Ethiopians. Their language is the closest to Saho, who are pretty much eastern Cushitic speaking "Habeshas". Genetically (using cluster groups) Afars seem the closest to "Habeshas", but those supposed "Afars" are really mislabeled Eastern Agew from Wag Hemra. But on G25 pca plots there are Agews and Afars, and still Afars are closer to "Habeshas", are they still mislabel Agews or are they the real deal?

Which groups do Afars are the closest to?

afbarwaaqo
11-09-2019, 10:04 AM
According to this PCA result somalis cluster closer to rendille and wolayta than we do to afars which clusters closer to agaw and amhara, I haven’t seen any PCA results where afars clustered closer to somalis than they do to other Ethiopians like amhara
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NetNomad
11-10-2019, 02:28 AM
What differentiates Afars from the Agaw and Habeshas is that they usually have less Mota affinity, other than that, not much of a difference. I think they are just aridity adapted Agaw-like people. Perhaps that explains why they look different from highlanders.

NetNomad
11-10-2019, 02:40 AM
Muslim-Arbegna afbarwaaqo

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/09/05/756536.full.pdf

Scroll to page 58

While this study still isn't published yet, it shows that there is a nontrivial difference between Agaws/Amharas and the Afar primarily when it comes to Mota and Somalia ratios.

Nebro
11-10-2019, 05:54 AM
Afar mixed with arabs.
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Muslim-Arbegna
11-10-2019, 07:38 AM
Muslim-Arbegna afbarwaaqo

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/09/05/756536.full.pdf

Scroll to page 58

While this study still isn't published yet, it shows that there is a nontrivial difference between Agaws/Amharas and the Afar primarily when it comes to Mota and Somalia ratios.

Yeah, but Afar seem to be a physically diverse people in NE Africa, for a people who are genetically homogeneous(?), even more so than Oromos who are one of the most biologically heterogeneous ethnic groups in NE Africa.

Horner
11-16-2019, 09:32 PM
Furthermore, this tool embedded in the study does a good job of describing how similar each group in Ethiopia is to each other: https://www.well.ox.ac.uk/~gav/work_in_progress/ethiopia/v5/index.html

Not surprising Afar are closest to their neighbors but are also somewhat unique because of their relatively isolated lowland geography.

NetNomad
11-17-2019, 08:09 AM
Furthermore, this tool embedded in the study does a good job of describing how similar each group in Ethiopia is to each other: https://www.well.ox.ac.uk/~gav/work_in_progress/ethiopia/v5/index.html

Not surprising Afar are closest to their neighbors but are also somewhat unique because of their relatively isolated lowland geography.

Based on that map it looks like they over-sampled Southwest Ethiopia and under-sampled the rest of the country. They probably made the assumption that large groups like Oromos could be captured with a few samples, but this was erogenous on their part.

drobbah
11-17-2019, 06:20 PM
Based on that map it looks like they over-sampled Southwest Ethiopia and under-sampled the rest of the country. They probably made the assumption that large groups like Oromos could be captured with a few samples, but this was erogenous on their part.
I wish we had Borana and samples from Oromos that neighbour Somalis.

NetNomad
11-17-2019, 06:47 PM
I wish we had Borana and samples from Oromos that neighbour Somalis.

Also, East Oromos who border Somalis are always ignored in these studies. They always only sample the ones near the central highland.

Horner
11-17-2019, 07:27 PM
Based on that map it looks like they over-sampled Southwest Ethiopia and under-sampled the rest of the country. They probably made the assumption that large groups like Oromos could be captured with a few samples, but this was erogenous on their part.


I believe (but not certain) this study utilizes many of the same samples collected and analyzed by Plaster's team at the UCL: https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1331901/. I agree that it would have been nice to also include eastern groups such as Harari and eastern Oromos. It would have also been nice to see updated uniparental resolution in that study. Despite this, I think it fills an important role in aggregating our understanding of the impact (or lack thereof) of language, religion, geography, and culture on Ethiopian genetics.

I believe there are people of Harari and eastern Oromo descent that have tested in the commercial space. So far commercial test results seem to corroborate what we find in academia. There appears to be a relatively small genetic variation between highland Afroasiatic speaking Ethiopians. I have not to date, however, seen the results of an Afar outside of academia.

NetNomad
11-17-2019, 07:35 PM
I believe (but not certain) this study utilizes many of the same samples collected and analyzed by Plaster's team at the UCL: https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1331901/. I agree that it would have been nice to also include eastern groups such as Harari and eastern Oromos. It would have also been nice to see updated uniparental resolution in that study. Despite this, I think it fills an important role in aggregating our understanding of the impact (or lack thereof) of language, religion, geography, and culture on Ethiopian genetics.

I believe there are people of Harari and eastern Oromo that have tested in the commercial space. So far commercial test results seem to corroborate what we find in academia. There appears to be a relatively small genetic variation between highland Afroasiatic speaking Ethiopians. I have not to date, however, seen the results of an Afar outside of academia.

Hararis, if I recall correctly, are basically related to Southern Amharas and Gurages. But Eastern Oromos may present some unique ancestry that hasn't been well-studied so far and they could present as an intermediate population between Somalis and other Ethiopians.

drobbah
11-17-2019, 10:05 PM
Also, East Oromos who border Somalis are always ignored in these studies. They always only sample the ones near the central highland.

It seems the only Oromos they sample are those that have significant Habesha ancestry.The more "pure" Oromos would help me and many Somalis in K5 and Somaliland like myself quantify the amount of Oromo admixture we carry.

Muslim-Arbegna
11-17-2019, 11:40 PM
I wish we had Borana and samples from Oromos that neighbour Somalis.


Also, East Oromos who border Somalis are always ignored in these studies. They always only sample the ones near the central highland.

Boranas have always been samples in academic studies, that is have there are always some Oromos leaning south (also Southwest Oromos) and closer to Masais.

And TBH. Eastern Oromos are going to be in between Somalis and other Erythreaic Ethiopians, many will be visibly closer to Habeshas. Northern Oromos are basically slightly south shifted version of beta Israelis and Agews.

NetNomad
11-18-2019, 10:12 AM
Boranas have always been samples in academic studies, that is have there are always some Oromos leaning south (also Southwest Oromos) and closer to Masais.

And TBH. Eastern Oromos are going to be in between Somalis and other Erythreaic Ethiopians, many will be visibly closer to Habeshas. Northern Oromos are basically slightly south shifted version of beta Israelis and Agews.

Only Behar et al 2010 had mostly Borana samples from Moyale, but even in his study a few were from Addis Ababa. So far I think only Tishkoff and Scheinfeldt had Borana samples only, but in most studies where you see the Oromo label they typically come from Welega, Shewa, the capital area, or from Arsi.

Muslim-Arbegna
11-19-2019, 03:43 AM
Only Behar et al 2010 had mostly Borana samples from Moyale, but even in his study a few were from Addis Ababa. So far I think only Tishkoff and Scheinfeldt had Borana samples only, but in most studies where you see the Oromo label they typically come from Welega, Shewa, the capital area, or from Arsi.

And considering the population of Boranas, do you think that is fair, best representation of Oromos to only have them? at least when they have non-Borana Oromos, they will always have some Boranas here and there, never "Non-Borana" exclusive. And Boranas are mostly non-Ethiopians, they mostly reside in Kenya, with foreign admixture.

NetNomad
11-19-2019, 11:19 AM
And considering the population of Boranas, do you think that is fair, best representation of Oromos to only have them? at least when they have non-Borana Oromos, they will always have some Boranas here and there, never "Non-Borana" exclusive. And Boranas are mostly non-Ethiopians, they mostly reside in Kenya, with foreign admixture.

My previous comment were mostly about Eastern Oromos, not about Boranas. I was just correcting you on that Boranas are always included.