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Sikeliot
11-10-2019, 06:13 PM
I am making a separate thread about this so it does not spill over into other threads.

So we know from Bronze Age Sicilians and Mycenaeans/Minoans that there was Caucasus/CHG/Iran Neolithic input already in Southeastern Europe, but not anything Semitic or Afroasiatic in origin which is in fact not indigenous to the region.

We also know that we can attribute North African input to the Moorish period, as we see that, like Spain and Portugal, you need North African to model Sicilians (especially West), Maltese, and Calabrians. We also can reduce, for Greek groups especially, the amount of Levantine scored by adding "ARM_LBA" to capture migration from Anatolia, both ancient and recent.

With Western Jews we know their Levantine is because their ultimate origin is in the Levant. But based on the evidence, what source should we attribute remaining and unaccounted for Levantine input in Sicily, Calabria, Crete, Cyprus and so on? Is it Phoenician? Is it from Anatolia also? Or is it from the Byzantine period? Arab rule? etc.

And related to the new Roman paper which found Levantine migration took place to the Italian Peninsula in the Imperial period, should we attribute extra Levantine in Lazio, Marche, Abruzzo, Molise, Campania, Apulia, Basilicata, and Umbria to this? The Levantine component is still needed around 7-10% for people from mainland Greece, Marche, Umbria, etc.



Maltese
Distance: 1.0894% / 0.01089441
Aggregated
23.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
21.6 Bell_Beaker_ITA
15.6 GRC_Mycenaean
14.4 ARM_LBA
11.6 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
7.0 DEU_MA
6.8 CZE_Early_Slav

Sicilian_East
Distance: 1.1638% / 0.01163763
Aggregated
27.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
21.6 Bell_Beaker_ITA
21.2 GRC_Mycenaean
16.0 DEU_MA
11.6 ARM_LBA
2.4 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.2 CZE_Early_Slav

Sicilian_West
Distance: 0.9561% / 0.00956118
Aggregated
36.6 Bell_Beaker_ITA
24.2 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
14.8 ARM_LBA
7.8 DEU_MA
7.2 CZE_Early_Slav
7.0 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
2.4 GRC_Mycenaean

Greek_Crete
Distance: 1.2908% / 0.01290788
Aggregated
31.6 GRC_Mycenaean
29.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
19.2 ARM_LBA
14.6 CZE_Early_Slav
5.6 Bell_Beaker_ITA

Greek
Distance: 1.5151% / 0.01515095
Aggregated
35.8 CZE_Early_Slav
32.4 GRC_Mycenaean
11.0 Bell_Beaker_ITA
10.4 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
10.4 ARM_LBA

Cypriot
Distance: 1.1673% / 0.01167299
Aggregated
50.6 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
22.4 GRC_Mycenaean
19.8 ARM_LBA
7.2 Bell_Beaker_ITA

Italian_Abruzzo
Distance: 1.0365% / 0.01036521
Aggregated
26.4 Bell_Beaker_ITA
21.6 GRC_Mycenaean
18.4 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
18.2 ARM_LBA
8.8 DEU_MA
6.6 CZE_Early_Slav

Italian_Apulia
Distance: 1.1189% / 0.01118890
Aggregated
25.8 GRC_Mycenaean
24.2 Bell_Beaker_ITA
19.6 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
18.0 ARM_LBA
10.0 CZE_Early_Slav
2.2 DEU_MA
0.2 Berber_Tunisia_Chen

Italian_Basilica
Distance: 1.0358% / 0.01035810
Aggregated
27.2 GRC_Mycenaean
21.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
20.4 Bell_Beaker_ITA
16.8 ARM_LBA
12.2 CZE_Early_Slav
2.0 DEU_MA
0.4 Berber_Tunisia_Chen

Italian_Calabria
Distance: 1.0641% / 0.01064055
Aggregated
30.8 GRC_Mycenaean
20.4 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
19.8 Bell_Beaker_ITA
19.0 ARM_LBA
5.6 CZE_Early_Slav
4.2 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.2 DEU_MA

Italian_Campania
Distance: 0.9552% / 0.00955240
Aggregated
24.2 GRC_Mycenaean
23.6 Bell_Beaker_ITA
23.4 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
17.2 ARM_LBA
6.6 CZE_Early_Slav
3.8 DEU_MA
1.2 Berber_Tunisia_Chen

Italian_Lazio
Distance: 1.4473% / 0.01447329
Aggregated
40.8 Bell_Beaker_ITA
19.2 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
15.4 ARM_LBA
10.6 GRC_Mycenaean
8.0 CZE_Early_Slav
6.0 DEU_MA

Italian_Marche
Distance: 1.1405% / 0.01140477
Aggregated
29.6 Bell_Beaker_ITA
19.2 GRC_Mycenaean
17.6 DEU_MA
15.2 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
14.2 ARM_LBA
4.2 CZE_Early_Slav

Italian_Molise
Distance: 1.0890% / 0.01089032
Aggregated
25.2 GRC_Mycenaean
24.2 Bell_Beaker_ITA
18.6 ARM_LBA
15.4 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
11.4 CZE_Early_Slav
5.2 DEU_MA

Italian_South
Distance: 0.9649% / 0.00964926
Aggregated
24.8 GRC_Mycenaean
21.8 ARM_LBA
20.0 Bell_Beaker_ITA
18.6 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
10.8 DEU_MA
2.6 CZE_Early_Slav
1.4 Berber_Tunisia_Chen

Italian_Tuscany
Distance: 1.5166% / 0.01516600
Aggregated
35.6 GRC_Mycenaean
25.2 DEU_MA
17.8 Bell_Beaker_ITA
8.0 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
7.0 ARM_LBA
6.4 CZE_Early_Slav

Italian_Umbria
Distance: 1.3391% / 0.01339056
Aggregated
29.2 GRC_Mycenaean
26.8 Bell_Beaker_ITA
17.0 ARM_LBA
14.2 DEU_MA
7.6 Levant_Canaanite_MBA
4.6 CZE_Early_Slav
0.6 Berber_Tunisia_Chen

Sikeliot
11-10-2019, 06:25 PM
The inclusion of ARM_LBA decreases Levantine input in Sicilians by about 5-7% but for Cretans and mainland southern Italians, by over 10%. So some of this Near Eastern in these populations is in fact from Anatolian or Caucasian sources and is not actually from the Levant.

Dorkymon
11-10-2019, 07:12 PM
I think we have different definitions of Southeast Europeans. In Europe that usually means the Balkans and perhaps Slovenia, Romania, Moldova, parts of Ukraine and maybe Hungary.
It's definitely not used for Italy and Malta.

Sikeliot
11-10-2019, 07:29 PM
I think we have different definitions of Southeast Europeans. In Europe that usually means the Balkans and perhaps Slovenia, Romania, Moldova, parts of Ukraine and maybe Hungary.
It's definitely not used for Italy and Malta.

I am referring to southern Italy, Malta, and the Aegean islands for the purpose of this thread.

TonyC
11-11-2019, 02:30 AM
Explain the Levantine component in these populations. For instance I get the Armenian LBA component in mainland Greeks linked to Mycenean ancestry but where is the evidence for Levantine genetic influx in the mainland during the MBA?

Constantine
11-11-2019, 08:34 AM
I believe SE Europe and the Levant were once more homogeneous, culturally and genetically. Ultimately climate change shifted the "population base" more northwest. Balkans became more shifted toward Continental types ("Epirotics" for mainland Greeks, for example) as a result.

Farther afield islands retain more of the population base due to less Continental mingling.

Meanwhile, continuing the domino effect, the old hinterlands of the Levant received an influx of peoples from the south and east while still retaining the old population base. History repeats itself; similar people often take similar migratory routes throughout time. And these later "Levantines 2.0" simply "refreshed" peripheral SE Euro areas with even more population base (with a dash of the newer southern/eastern components).

All in all, though, I think the bulk of this "extra" stuff is just various groups retaining more of the old population base due to cline, isolation, and even some random chance. Our tools probably aren't yet able to sort out exactly who is who because of all the overlapping peoples in both space and time.

Sikeliot
11-11-2019, 02:26 PM
Explain the Levantine component in these populations. For instance I get the Armenian LBA component in mainland Greeks linked to Mycenean ancestry but where is the evidence for Levantine genetic influx in the mainland during the MBA?

There isn't really. The mainland did not receive this to any significant degree.