View Full Version : Any Golebiewski/owski/icki in R1a-...-Z92R-Z685R-YP270R-CTS4648R-YP1405-YP4479 ?

11-16-2019, 08:00 PM
I live in the USA and did DNA testing both through AncestryDNA & 23andme.
Only 23andme does Y testing and they do not go deeper than YP270 paternal haplogroup classification which in itself is very rare 1 in 1600 of 23andme customers.
Based on my own research and my biological father research, my Paternal Golebiewski (Gołębiewski) / Golebicki (Gołębicki / Golembicki) lineage goes back to 1700s to Szymon Gołębiewski / Golembicki that was known to have R-YP4479.
Therefore my downstream mapping from R1a-Z92 should be R1a-...-Z92R-Z685R-YP270R-CTS4648R-YP1405-YP4479
and then most likely to YF04195 (Poland Podlaskie)

I was born and grew up in Poland but in Poland under R1a-Z92 (4.8% of population) subtracting YP351 (3.4% of population) I am ending up with 1.4% of Poland population estimate for CTS4648 based on Peter Gwozdz research:

Q: How do I know that I am on the right track?
A: Because of extremely rare last name "Szrejna" correlation via AncestryDNA linking me to Ron Szrejna (father - my 2nd/3rd cousin) & Brett Szrejna (son- my 3rd/4th cousin) in the USA.
My paternal Great Grandparents were Stanislaw Gołębiewski (born 1872) & Teofila Szrejna (born 1877). My paternal Grandparents Wincenty Gołębiewski (born 1909) & Leokadia Kominowska (1908).

Unfortunately I have not found any information about linking any of the downstream haplogroups from YP270 & YP4479 to any surnames / last names.

Any Gołębiewski, Gołębiowski, Golembicki, Golebicki out there under YP4479?

Though there are thousands and thousands of Gołębiewskis in Poland.

Anybody has info on last names for and downstream from YP4479 ?

11-16-2019, 11:50 PM
Anybody has info on last names for and downstream from YP4479 ?
In the R1a Project, the only published surname in R-YP4479 besides your own Gołębiewski is the Lithuanian Valentukevicius. YFull estimates the TMRCA of the two R-YP4479 lineages (https://yfull.com/tree/R-YP4479/) to be 950 years.

11-17-2019, 02:21 AM
Thank you Igmayka !

Searching this Forum for R-YP4479 I also found the User "BobPole" with his Paternal lineage "Gołębicki" reporting R-YP4479. Lets see if we get more responses.

11-19-2019, 06:57 PM
For anybody who is interested more details on R-YP449 and upstream R1a-CTS4648
There is a website at Familytreedna with public information and full names of the individuals in the DNA testing.
Here is the link:
So the complete names for R-YP449 are:
N141774 Golembicki Szymon Gołębiewski, b. mid 1700s Poland R-YP4479
224635 Valen Pilypas Valentukevicius, b ~1800, Kabeliai, LT Lithuania R-YP4479

11-19-2019, 11:39 PM
Hello, Marek!

I am the R-YP4479, N141774. My 4 grandparents immigrated from occupied Poland prior to WWI, and my Grandfather Władysław Izidory Gołębicki
was born in Uścianki, Augustów County Russian occupied Poland in 1883, and married Anna Kawalec in Chicopee Falls, Mass. I have copies of church records from Barlgow Kocielny, Augustow, and the Suwalki Archives dating back to my 4th great-grandparents Szymon Gołębiewski and Anna Gorajewska in the 1700s. I don't have a Szrejna on my tree, or a Stanislaw Golebicki on my grandfather level, but I only was tracing my father's direct line and don't really have anything going past WWI, so I really don't know about a connection there. I came away with the impression that there were at least two separate families of Golebicki (Barglow) and Golebiewski (Augustow) as I was able to correlate duplicate church entries and each church spelled my family name differently. In the US, the name was eventually Americanized to Golembicki

I have no other known Golembicki relatives alive in the US, and so far Marek, you are the only Golebiewski R1a-YP270 I have found. I've come across several with I and R1b yDNA, but none with R1a, so we could very well have a family connection somewhere. I'm on 23 and Me, and I'll check to see if you pop up there. My mother's side came from Austria, Poland, Maziarz and Jakubowksa, and I have many connections from Wampierzow and Wola Wadowska area.

11-20-2019, 01:22 AM
Bob so great to hear from you !

I did try to message you directly through Anthrogenica but the rules say I need 10 postings before I can do so.
I also immediately checked 23andme and I am only finding "Rita Mancini" as my 5th cousin searching for string "gole" she lists Golembiewski as one of ancestor names. So that means Rita Mancini shares with me 4th Great Grandparent Ignatz (Ignacy) Golebiewski that is at the top of the family tree I got from my biological father.
This forum does not allow me to post any attachments but I posted my family tree on the Polish site as an attachment under the following link trying to help another person from Golebiewski line that is most likely related to me as his or hers ancestor lived a stone throw away from Biezun Poland where my branch of Golebiewski lived since 1700s.
The site is in Polish but from the attachment I posted you can read names birth and death dates and locations and also the branches how they are connected:


From Polish records I found out that the name version Golebiewski (Gołębiewski - with Polish special characters) was known from the records from at least 1454 so 44 years after one of the biggest Medieval Battles under Grunwald (1410) not far away.
Golebiewski settled then in three locations (Polish records say). They had three Knighthood Emblems (in Pol."Herb" ) depending on the location: first "Gozdawa" in Voivodeship Pultusk, Zakroczym, Ciechanow (Biezun is just west of that triangle); second "Prawdzic" Voivodeship Nursk (that is much further south from Bialystok & Suwalki) and "Grzymala" in Voivodeship Gdansk (Danzig - in German).
Your Ancestors Land (Bialystok & Suwalki) is sort of between these 3 early centers and I know that there are Golebiewski still living there since at least early 1900s there as I came across records and people.
There are Thousands Golebiewski today spread all over Poland and popularity of this name actually makes it very difficult to find a right person.
There is an outstanding Polish website based on Polish Census record where you can count your relatives down to village / suburb level zooming in on the map of Poland but be aware that the website is Polish Special characters sensitive so you will get different outcome searching "Golebiewski" and "Gołębiewski":
You just need to cut paste the characters from somewhere like text above if you want to check different last name:
Zoom in, again and again on the region you are interested.
Even the USA does not have as brilliant website for the USA last names like this one !


So based on this website there are more than 11 thousands just "Gołębiewski" single name variation individuals in Poland (zoom out completely to get this figure).

Your Cousin
Marek Skoczylas Golebiewski

BTW: I have been living in Kirkland WA USA (near Seattle) for last 19 years, in Australia before that 1997-2000

11-20-2019, 01:01 PM
Thank you! I will check out those links. I’m located in Virginia. I’ll try pming you. I don’t post a lot, so I’m not sure I hit 10 either.

Bob Golembicki

11-20-2019, 03:53 PM
Thank you Bob !

So for your specific name variation original "Gołębicki" there are only 187 Individuals living in Poland based on the website I have just mentioned and guess what, the highest concentration is near Augustow / Suwalki:
Zoom on north east Poland:

For any Golebiewski/owski/icki out there researching Family History I am listing more "precious resources".
Some of it is in Polish so you need to use some tool like "Google Translate" if you can not understand Polish.

Before I do that here is the current count of Poland population based on that Name variation based on nazwiska-polskie.pl website (Polish Last names /Surnames):
Some variations from the historical record are no longer represented.

Name Poland Count
Gołębiewski 11234
Gołembiewski 585
Gołębiowski 12760
Gołembiowski 170
Gołębski 377
Gołembski 111
Gołyński 294
Gołęberski 11
Gołemberski 31
Gołębicki 187
Gołembicki 28
Gołębiecki 86
Gołembiecki 19
Gołomb 65
Gołąb 7583
Gołębowski 286
Gołąbowski 87
Gołąbiewski 162
Gołąbiowski 23
Głombiowski 104
Głombicki 27
Głombiecki 0
Golambiewski 0
Głombgoski 0
Głombkoski 0
Gołęb 0
Total: 34230

There is a PDF book available on-line for download that was published in 1930 listing all the last names / surnames of the "Land Owner Families" (Pol. Rody Ziemianskie) of XV & XVI Century and if the were Knights, Knighted their Emblem Name is listed.
Use download button on the left.

Here are Golebiewski Name Variations listed at that time of XV & XVI Century. Obviously these names went through many transformations to end up as the list above.
Former Poland Region (above) Herbu - "Knighthood Emblem" (under region):
Name Malopolskie-Litewskie Wielkopolskie Mazowiecko-Podlaskie Ruskie-Pruskie
Gołębiowski Janina Poraj p. Gozdawa ngp. Prawdzic gp. h. wl. N.
Gołyński Rawicz Prawdzic n. Trzaska n.
Gołembski Ogonczyk

Another brilliant "Gołębiewski – Głombiowski" Family Name History in Polish is available on the following website as a PDF:
go to: " NAJSTARSZE DZIEJE tutaj --> pdf"

It starts from the Polish Court record from year 1336 when village Gołębiewo k.Tczewa (also known as "Golambow") is mentioned.
Further roots are mentioned as coming from Jan Rejman z Gołębiowa (also known as "Reyman-Golambkau")
His roots are believed to come from todays Germany Rhine River Valley: Johannes Ryman von
Christburg (z Dzierzgonia) year 1378.

Now considering what Igmayka said: "YFull estimates the TMRCA of the two R-YP4479 lineages to be 950 years."
And the following animation:
Circa year 1050 (also based on the animation) it stops in Lithuania.

Could some of our YP4479 Ancestors travel along Baltic Sea Coast from Lithuania to Rhine River Valley and back to Poland from roughly 1050 till 1300s Rajman/Rayman/Golebiewski/Golebowski ?
It was well known trade route at the time when Kingdom of Poland was established and took Christianity in the year 966.
While Valentukevicius stayed in the area of Lithuania all time through that period?

BTW: There is even some speculation that Ancient Greek & Roman routes to Baltic are linked to the myth of Argonauts and the "golden fleece" being actually made of Baltic Amber.
Troy was also a myth until the City of Troy was discovered and excavated.
I find it also interesting that based on above animation R-Y13891 (upstream) is placed at around 900BC between Greece and Rome before ending up in Lithuania 1050 AD. Did one of the Argonauts fell in love in local tribes woman in the area of Baltic Lithuania and decided to settle ?
We will never know.

11-21-2019, 01:09 PM
The old semargl.me site had some snp mapping that I found interesting and I think adds to the Amber trade route. I don’t remember which snp groups exactly, but some of mine were tagged as Vened with a later Nueri, before the site was pulled down. Iwona Dakiniewicz helped me with research, and she was of the opinion my family had moved from around Golebewo Kuyavia to resettle near Augustow after that area was depopulated by war and plague following the Swedish Deluge. Syzmon’s records were damaged and she was not able to determine his birthplace. She never shared with me how she came to that conclusion, but I assumed it was based on other clients, as I know she is very experienced in that area of Poland.