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hantrolugharsts
11-20-2019, 01:09 AM
Hi everyone, how are you?

I have been told that in this forum there were great specialists in the field so I have registered.


I would like to show you some documents about my haplogroup and see if they have knowledge of the time that might have arrived in Europe or Spain.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lUB3AS8EODY/XcYl3pp8pEI/AAAAAAAABRI/VsAlJSOzQwM_fowR1jgssBsQTZWtvM0owCLcBGAsYHQ/s640/E-BY7449OCUOTO.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EEQq74Wj6cQ/XcYrYAo2KeI/AAAAAAAABRU/IqSdWSAzqrQU72pnQGuyPjTMuRLY2fULgCLcBGAsYHQ/s640/E-BY7449MEDIOcomplet.JPEG

Thanks in advance

hantrolugharsts
11-20-2019, 01:16 AM
I will show you some more results so you have a wider view.

In FTDNA it is the nomenclature BY7450

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fOgotI44ldY/XbBRSEkuVEI/AAAAAAAABJ4/T9c6igkicy0pfSi0LG1_bLCnZLv_Zd37ACLcBGAsYHQ/s640/BIGYV22MISUCURSAL.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ARnmuQhOefk/XbFaGjQtUnI/AAAAAAAABKg/wcfiMqPiNDgFti_22Ut1HFqGpMDpk1PdgCLcBGAsYHQ/s640/BIGYV22MISUCURSALm%25C3%25A1sgrandeSUCURSAL.JPEG

Results in FTDNA

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dxuqlNMiBFU/XH0SimqxOgI/AAAAAAAAAHA/191EnB5bcP0tsoMSgeEj6hhG4M_HCOxDACLcBGAs/s640/misor%25C3%25ADgenes.jpg


nMONTES k15
pen0-
[1] "distancia% = 0.4171"

X

French_Basque, 44.6
Orcadian, 25.8
Sardinian, 18.4
Ossetian, 7.4
Somali, 3.6
Evens, 0.2

pen0.001-
[1] "distance% = 0.5924"

X

Spanish_Cantabria, 86.4
French_Basque, 7.6
Francés, 1.8
Orcadian, 1
Southwest_English, 1
Afghan_Uzbeki, 0.2
Chechen, 0.2
Ethiopian_Anuak, 0.2
Ethiopian_Oromo, 0.2
Hadjar, 0.2
Kanjar, 0.2
North_Dutch, 0.2
North_Ossetian, 0.2
San, 0.2
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha, 0.2
Sudanese, 0.2

pen0.01-
1 distancia% = 0.5738 "

X

Spanish_Cantabria, 89,8
French_Basque, 5,8
Balkar, 0,6
francés, 0,6
checheno, 0,4
Southwest_English, 0,4
Afghan_Pashtun, 0,2
Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator, 0,2
Evenki, 0,2
Hadza, 0,2
irlandés, 0,2
North_Ossetian, 0,2
South_Dutch, 0,2
Southeast_English, 0,2
Spanish_Cataluna, 0,2
tabassaran, 0,2
West_Norwegian , 0.2
West_Scottish, 0.2

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sJKZwQ4sw-s/XH0e54cxt5I/AAAAAAAAAHs/p41xp6n65ToGOqYY2bODJKANVw3VYvs4gCLcBGAs/s640/genesis.gedmatch.com_fcgi-bin_Oracle4_2c.fcgi%2B%25285%2529.png

Your genetic ancestry calculator results K47

hantrolugharsts
11-20-2019, 01:20 AM
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-T6wENa-kIV8/XOlRsbJ7ifI/AAAAAAAAArI/EGF4DIJ4UNwOQWMlY6bYH81se3IS_v99gCLcBGAs/s640/dnaGENICSK36k36bis.png

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oCk6mWaorsI/XOqF3ZjkE5I/AAAAAAAAArg/96-9mSu3LdsS3LO4J5p8EaLVZZBxM09BACLcBGAs/s640/Tolan%2Brecent%2Bascentor%2BV2BIS2.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iSmV8uu-SH8/XPPkJJqRUPI/AAAAAAAAAwE/8L-4YPSAM_cOfCqQNvxNEggUwyjK6ZEBwCLcBGAs/s640/genicsmoreprecisemoreprecise2.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-n2oIO4JnYQE/XR3P0mcdaNI/AAAAAAAAA5g/LSWxLLtTsX0jXUWpHwDTCWTsSmxw84rEgCLcBGAs/s640/K15dnagenicsscreenshot_20190704_044504.jpg

I imagine that with all this documentation you can have a broader vision since you are specialists.

Awaiting your response, I greet you attentively.

hantrolugharsts
11-20-2019, 11:36 AM
What is this sepulchral silence?

hantrolugharsts
11-20-2019, 03:39 PM
Eurogenes K36 Admixture Proportions


Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 0.06 Pct
Basque 10.27 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 3.51 Pct
East_African 0.16 Pct
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 4.03 Pct
East_Central_Asian 0.07 Pct
East_Central_Euro 2.24 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 0.11 Pct
Fennoscandian 0.68 Pct
French 2.81 Pct
Iberian 22.66 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 8.41 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 1.33 Pct
North_African 3.96 Pct
North_Atlantic 12.55 Pct
North_Caucasian 3.57 Pct
North_Sea 10.08 Pct
Northeast_African 1.87 Pct
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy 0.11 Pct
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 0.30 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian 1.57 Pct
West_Med 9.67 Pct


Upstream. Downstream
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IvM-7YFOYQQ/XdRY3tvV-bI/AAAAAAAABeI/Q1hH-FbfVwgEtvj2epjuuM5heEuEcbRaACLcBGAsYHQ/s640/participantesaguasabajoARRIBABY7450.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uXlJfKNIsdE/Xc9e8T4kUrI/AAAAAAAABYE/IKmB-oJHiMIAlqRzanXlQSQPDoQAeanQwCLcBGAsYHQ/s640/pcaMIA2019.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6iM2JKDQKUg/XcxiLkOMCLI/AAAAAAAABWI/Y3dzCz-RIRoi_naEnBhGmh6wv2tdyOM3wCLcBGAsYHQ/s640/CUSTOMPCAm%25C3%25ADaNoviembre2019.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GVhL8uqg0N8/Xcyp42tV8gI/AAAAAAAABWc/JnEb5MYNWSILyoL5es1ZkVgJWWlYZtZjQCLcBGAsYHQ/s640/CUSTOMpcaModern.JPEG

Does anyone risk giving me a historical time or moment of my DNA Y haplogroup in Europe and Spain?

In a certain time I will receive a professional report. Let's see how good they are in this.

palamede
11-22-2019, 09:54 PM
What is this sepulchral silence?


Maybe you expect too much of our weak science and you are frightened us. In fact, it is sub-forum mainly frequented by he bearers of the haplogroup E and rarely everyday . In more, although you are a young user, you have already learnt a lot by reading anthrogenica.

I suppose you are from the Malaga province, nice city, and nice sweet wine. By car, I went thru Malaga to Algesiras and from Algesiras for the return a long time ago. 15 years ago, in one week, I did the circuit Xeres, Sevilla, Cordoba, Grenada (second visit of Alhambra), Nerja cave, Malaga, but for Malaga we visited the city by autocar quicky and mounted above the city to admire the city and the harbour before going to the airport.

For your autosomal DNA you seem more Cantabrian than Andalousian and an important part of Basque 10.36 in K36, rare for a non-Basque. K15 :

You_________ : NS 20.34 At 31.74 Ba 4.74 EE 2.30 WM 23.81 WAsian 6.42 EMed 3.18 RS 3.36 Sib 0.99 NEAf 2.52 SS 0.42
French-Basque : NS 28.25 At 45.40 Ba 4.79 EE 2.82 WM 25.04 WAsian 0.83 EMed 2.74 RS 0.73 Sib 0.04 NEAf 0.17 SS 0.04
Cantabria____ : NS 19.95 At 32.03 Ba 5.93 EE 4.22 WM 23.95 WAsian 2.17 EMed 6.59 RS 2.68 Sib 0.07 NEAf 0.91 SS 0.81
Andalucia____ : NS 15.69 At 31.46 Ba 5.58 EE 2.99 WM 23.22 WAsian 3.99 EMed 11.3 RS 2.49 Sib 0.48 NEAf 1.32 SS 0.52

very few people know BY7449 , more people know M35, M78 or V22 :
M35> L539>M78>Z1919>V22>Y37003>BY7452>BY7449 (tmrca 5900BP=3950BC)

V22 have been often from Levant first since the beginning of the Neolithic , frequent in Low Egypt, spred in Middle East and Arabian Peninsula more recently, In West Med it could be spred by Phoenicians and other Levantines. In Iberian Peninsula and Sicily by Moslem conquests. But the more frequently by soldiers, merchants, artisans and slaves during Roman Empire.

Under BY7449, it is evident BY7517 (tmrca 1050BP) is a jewish ashkenazi sub-branch, E-M22 presence in Ukrainia, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia shows this with certitude , like every E sub-branches in East Europe with at least more than one occurence, exception for E-V13 ( of which the parent L618 migrated into Europe at Early Neolithic).
E-M78>Z1919>L618(tmrca 8100BP=6150BC)>V13(tmrca 4800BP=2850BC)

Every branch of E (and frequently of J1 and J2) which are in Occident specially, in Netherland and Germany, appeared during the Roman Empire (50BC-450AD).

In Yfull, we have 2 BY7449* you and a Netherlander of the province of Overijsell, but with a tmrca a long time before Roman Empire.

There is an active forumer with haplogroup E-V22 of province of Groningue in Netherlander Frisia. he is named 'Finn' and I think he is YF03380 in sub-branch E-Y32776.

hantrolugharsts
11-23-2019, 01:16 AM
In Yfull, we have 2 BY7447* you and a Netherlander of the province of Overijsell, but with a tmrca a long time before Roman Empire.
Excuse me in this quota yours refers to BY7447* or BY7449* the Netherlander and mine? Has it been a typo of yours? It has left me somewhat confused.



Hi, how are you? Thanks for answering. I am glad you liked Andalusia, it will always be well received.

I have really posted here in case somebody else in Europe is looking for information in the future. It has taken me many years to get to this thread and to be able to write this post at last after a long road where I had not found much help either and where the only thing you got was: Phoenician or Jew. But well something kept me going because my intuition told me that there was more topic than the typical recurring topic for a haplogroup not too studied or investigated perhaps.

For this reason I decided to publish right here in the most correct place to do it thinking about the future, maybe some other V22 in Europe is looking for information and does not have to be as lost and with as little help as I have seen myself in the past.

Prior to the Roman Empire, then for what moment or time would you bet?

Tuianti
11-29-2019, 06:08 PM
Excuse me in this quota yours refers to BY7447* or BY7449* the Netherlander and mine? Has it been a typo of yours? It has left me somewhat confused.



Hi, how are you? Thanks for answering. I am glad you liked Andalusia, it will always be well received.

I have really posted here in case somebody else in Europe is looking for information in the future. It has taken me many years to get to this thread and to be able to write this post at last after a long road where I had not found much help either and where the only thing you got was: Phoenician or Jew. But well something kept me going because my intuition told me that there was more topic than the typical recurring topic for a haplogroup not too studied or investigated perhaps.

For this reason I decided to publish right here in the most correct place to do it thinking about the future, maybe some other V22 in Europe is looking for information and does not have to be as lost and with as little help as I have seen myself in the past.

Prior to the Roman Empire, then for what moment or time would you bet?

Hi,

I am ´the Netherlander of the province of Overijssel! Interesting discussion!

hantrolugharsts
12-01-2019, 04:27 AM
Hi,

I am ´the Netherlander of the province of Overijssel! Interesting discussion!


Truly!

Your first and direct post here?

Has anyone notified you?

Tuianti
12-01-2019, 02:45 PM
Truly!

Your first and direct post here?

Has anyone notified you?

It is my first post!
No one has notified me. It was Google (E-by7449)!
My family lived near Oldenzaal in the region of Twente in the eastern part of Overijssel in the Netherlands. It was in the 16th/17th century a Spanish enclave in the Dutch Republic. Thousands of Spanish or Italian soldiers visited Twente. E-V22 is very rare in the Netherlands and Twente never belonged to the Roman Empire. I believe that I am a descendant of a Spanish or Italian soldier.

hantrolugharsts
12-01-2019, 03:58 PM
It is my first post!
No one has notified me. It was Google (E-by7449)!
My family lived near Oldenzaal in the region of Twente in the eastern part of Overijssel in the Netherlands. It was in the 16th/17th century a Spanish enclave in the Dutch Republic. Thousands of Spanish or Italian soldiers visited Twente. E-V22 is very rare in the Netherlands and Twente never belonged to the Roman Empire. I believe that I am a descendant of a Spanish or Italian soldier.

Okay. Excuse me, I wasn't sure if it could be a joke from someone in the forum.

It is really amazing to have found him. But have you obtained the age of the haplogroup in Europe?

hantrolugharsts
12-01-2019, 03:58 PM
I will try to send you a private one, but you have to have 10 written posts.

hantrolugharsts
12-01-2019, 03:59 PM
I'll try now that I have all 10

Principe
12-04-2019, 12:36 AM
Hi everyone, how are you?

I have been told that in this forum there were great specialists in the field so I have registered.


I would like to show you some documents about my haplogroup and see if they have knowledge of the time that might have arrived in Europe or Spain.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lUB3AS8EODY/XcYl3pp8pEI/AAAAAAAABRI/VsAlJSOzQwM_fowR1jgssBsQTZWtvM0owCLcBGAsYHQ/s640/E-BY7449OCUOTO.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EEQq74Wj6cQ/XcYrYAo2KeI/AAAAAAAABRU/IqSdWSAzqrQU72pnQGuyPjTMuRLY2fULgCLcBGAsYHQ/s640/E-BY7449MEDIOcomplet.JPEG

Thanks in advance

Its kind of hard to know at the moment, an ancient dna sample needs to be found to get an idea, E-V22 by ancient dna standards is very veritable in the sense its been found in multiple locations under different cultures, all belonging to various branches. My educated guess would be an something along a Levantine or Anatolian origin for this branch, with Levantine being much more likely since the brother branch is Ashkenazi, so i’ll say it a Near Eastern migrant during the Roman era.

hantrolugharsts
12-08-2019, 02:29 PM
Its kind of hard to know at the moment, an ancient dna sample needs to be found to get an idea, E-V22 by ancient dna standards is very veritable in the sense its been found in multiple locations under different cultures, all belonging to various branches. My educated guess would be an something along a Levantine or Anatolian origin for this branch, with Levantine being much more likely since the brother branch is Ashkenazi, so i’ll say it a Near Eastern migrant during the Roman era.

Hi, how are you?

Thanks for answering.

To date they have given me in different places the probability of Roman times or even earlier.

I have been told about the underlying subclades that it was not Askenazi, I think I remember that one of them was from a migration from Scotland to Germany, Austria and then to Poland. It is what I have been told with certainty I ignore it.

Principe
12-08-2019, 03:08 PM
Hi, how are you?

Thanks for answering.

To date they have given me in different places the probability of Roman times or even earlier.

I have been told about the underlying subclades that it was not Askenazi, I think I remember that one of them was from a migration from Scotland to Germany, Austria and then to Poland. It is what I have been told with certainty I ignore it.

I am good and you?

My pleasure!

Good news is over 1000 samples from the Mediterranean region are on their way, good chances are your branch should show up!

BY7517 is definitely an Ashkenazi line, whoever suggested that it wasn’t you should ignore.

hantrolugharsts
12-08-2019, 04:25 PM
I am good and you?

My pleasure!



Good news is over 1000 samples from the Mediterranean region are on their way, good chances are your branch should show up!

BY7517 is definitely an Ashkenazi line, whoever suggested that it wasn’t you should ignore.


Good news then. Let's see if we are lucky.

I have up to 150 samples on screen but up to a distance of 15 my main samples are these, I don't know if this can shed some light. By the way what do you think of MTA.



Your closest Archaeogenetic matches...
(Smaller numbers mean closer matches to you)

1. Visigoth Iberian Girona (550 AD) ..... 8.765 - I12034 -
Top 99% match vs all users

2. Roman Soldier Germany (300 AD) ..... 9.032 - FN_2
Top 99% match vs all users

3. Roman Soldier Freiham-Nord Germany (300 AD) ..... 9.04 - FN_2
Top 99% match vs all users

4. Iberian / Piedmont (670 AD) ..... 9.106 - CL94 -
Top 98% match vs all users

5. Gallo-Roman Celt Mix Iberia (80 AD) ..... 9.529 - I10866 -
Top 99% match vs all users

6. Proto Thracian/Illyrian Vucedol (2775 BC) ..... 10.09 - I3499 -
Top 99% match vs all users

7. Etruscan Civitavecchia (650 BC) ..... 10.31 - R474 -
Top 99% match vs all users

8. Bell Beaker Haunstetten Germany (2385 BC) ..... 10.35 - UNTA58_68Sk1 -
Top 99% match vs all users

9. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) ..... 10.75 - I3313 -
Top 96% match vs all users

10. Gallo-Roman Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 11.21 - R109 -
Top 99% match vs all users

11. Medieval Iberian (670 AD) ..... 11.31 - CL23 -
Top 98% match vs all users

12. High Status Male Haunstetten (2059 BC) ..... 11.38 - POST_44 -
Top 99% match vs all users

13. Late Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 11.46 - R105 -
Top 97% match vs all users

14. Le Mans Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 11.51 - LM_406_T -
Top 98% match vs all users

15. Vasconic-Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 11.54 - R110 -
Top 99% match vs all users

16. Medieval Villa Magna Italy (990 AD) ..... 11.72 - R63 -
Top 98% match vs all users

17. Gallo-Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 11.78 - R108 -
Top 96% match vs all users

18. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1485 AD) ..... 11.94 - R1221 -
Top 96% match vs all users

19. Bronze Age Spain Cogotas (1290 BC) ..... 12.13 - I12209 -
Top 99% match vs all users

20. Ilergetes Tribe Catalan (600 BC) ..... 12.19 - I4556 -
Top 99% match vs all users

21. North Alpine Bronze Age (1677 BC) ..... 12.2 - AITI_98 -
Top 99% match vs all users

22. Imperial Rome Mausoleo Augusto (500 AD) ..... 12.56 - R33 -
Top 96% match vs all users

23. Iron Age Catalan (620 BC) ..... 12.63 - I12640 -
Top 99% match vs all users

24. Ilergetes Tribe Catalan (440 BC) ..... 12.75 - I12878 -
Top 99% match vs all users

25. North Alpine Bronze Age (1794 BC) ..... 12.9 - AITI_43 -
Top 98% match vs all users

26. Ilergetes Tribe Catalan (200 BC) ..... 13.39 - I3320 -
Top 99% match vs all users

27. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 13.4 - scy300 -
Top 97% match vs all users

28. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (670 AD) ..... 13.4 - CL47b
Top 75% match vs all users

29. Medieval Piedmont (670 AD) ..... 13.45 - CL57 -
Top 90% match vs all users

30. Celtiberian Alemannic Mix (520 AD) ..... 13.46 - STR_535 - ?
Top 99% match vs all users

31. Early Medieval Andalusia (760 AD) ..... 13.46 - I3585 -
Top 95% match vs all users

32. Celtiberian Mix Tribe Northern Spain (2300 BC) ..... 13.49 - I3238 -
Top 99% match vs all users

33. Roman-Carthago Mix Iberia (80 AD) ..... 13.63 - I8475 -
Top 97% match vs all users

34. Etruscan Civitavecchia (650 BC) ..... 13.64 - R473 -
Top 98% match vs all users

35. Latin Tribe Inland BE (650 BC) ..... 13.81 - R1021 -
Top 99% match vs all users

36. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1429 AD) ..... 13.84 - R1289 -
Top 99% match vs all users

37. Celtoiberian Outlier Roman Empire VP (100 AD) ..... 13.88 - R116 -
Top 98% match vs all users

38. Western Scythian Outlier Hungary (550 BC) ..... 13.89 - DA198 -
Top 97% match vs all users

39. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) ..... 13.94 - SZ28 - ?
Top 94% match vs all users

40. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 14.01 - I4331 -
Top 94% match vs all users

41. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 14.06 - R55 -
Top 93% match vs all users

42. Vascones Tribe (460 BC) ..... 14.14 - I12879 -
Top 99% match vs all users

43. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 14.25 - I4332 -
Top 94% match vs all users

44. Bronze Age Spain Cogotas (1290 BC) ..... 14.25 - I12208 -
Top 99% match vs all users

45. Boscombe Bowmen Amesbury (2300 BC) ..... 14.27 - I2416-BB -
Top 99% match vs all users

46. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 14.28 - scy197b - ?
Top 94% match vs all users

47. High Status Burial Mound Haunstetten (2112 BC) ..... 14.38 - POST_50 -
Top 98% match vs all users

48. North Alpine Middle Bronze Age (1563 BC) ..... 14.42 - OTTM_151ind2 -
Top 98% match vs all users

49. Vascones Tribe Vasconia (280 BC) ..... 14.42 - I3759 -
Top 99% match vs all users

50. North Alpine Bronze Age (1797 BC) ..... 14.51 - AITI_66 -
Top 99% match vs all users

51. Portuguese Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 14.55 - I12514 -
Top 93% match vs all users

52. Rugii Tribe Oder-Vistula (135 AD) ..... 14.55 - PCA36 - ?
Top 83% match vs all users

53. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 14.59 - I2649
Top 94% match vs all users

54. Vascones Tribe Vasconia (280 BC) ..... 14.59 - I3758 -
Top 99% match vs all users

55. Crusader Knight French / Lebanon (1250 AD) ..... 14.61 - SI-40 -
Top 98% match vs all users

56. Iberian Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 14.62 - I7498 -
Top 94% match vs all users

57. Roman Era Girona (80 AD) ..... 14.63 - I8339 -
Top 99% match vs all users

58. Spaniard Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 14.64 - I12515 -
Top 92% match vs all users

59. Thraco-Cimmerian Black Sea (900 BC) ..... 14.67 - MJ12 -
Top 98% match vs all users

60. North Alpine Bronze Age (1752 BC) ..... 14.69 - AITI_120 -
Top 86% match vs all users

61. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1429 AD) ..... 14.69 - R1287 -
Top 95% match vs all users

62. Basque Carolingian (650 AD) ..... 14.73 - I3777 -
Top 99% match vs all users

63. Ilergetes Outlier Catalan (440 BC) ..... 14.75 - I12410 -
Top 99% match vs all users

64. Bronze Age Northern Spain (1440 BC) ..... 14.78 - I2472 -
Top 99% match vs all users

65. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 14.87 - scy305 -
Top 95% match vs all users

66. Latin Prenestini Tribe Inland PC (400 BC) ..... 15.05 - R435 -
Top 99% match vs all users

67. Scythian Southern Moldova (270 BC) ..... 15.08 - scy192 -
Top 94% match vs all users

68. Marseilles Plague Victim (1721 AD) ..... 15.24 - OBS137 - ?
Top 90% match vs all users

69. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 15.28 - R61 -
Top 89% match vs all users

70. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1100 AD) ..... 15.36 - I2515
Top 92% match vs all users

71. Vasconic Tribe (275 BC) ..... 15.38 - I8209 -
Top 99% match vs all users

72. Hispano-Roman-Mehrebi Cordoba Caliphate (950 AD) ..... 15.54 - I7497 -
Top 97% match vs all users

73. Scythian Moldova (290 BC) ..... 15.66 - scy311 -
Top 63% match vs all users

74. Vasconic Tribe Empuries (275 BC) ..... 15.68 - I8214 -
Top 99% match vs all users

75. Italy Bell Beaker (2000 BC) ..... 15.71 - I2478 -
Top 99% match vs all users

76. Basque Carolingian (790 AD) ..... 15.77 - I7673 -
Top 99% match vs all users

77. Villanovan Etruscan Italy VGG (850 BC) ..... 15.88 - R1015 -
Top 98% match vs all users

78. Portuguese Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 15.95 - I12516 -


I have up to 150 samples on screen but up to a distance of 15 my main samples are these, I don't know if this can shed some light. By the way what do you think of MTA.

Principe
12-08-2019, 04:33 PM
Good news then. Let's see if we are lucky.

I have up to 150 samples on screen but up to a distance of 15 my main samples are these, I don't know if this can shed some light. By the way what do you think of MTA.



Your closest Archaeogenetic matches...
(Smaller numbers mean closer matches to you)

1. Visigoth Iberian Girona (550 AD) ..... 8.765 - I12034 -
Top 99% match vs all users

2. Roman Soldier Germany (300 AD) ..... 9.032 - FN_2
Top 99% match vs all users

3. Roman Soldier Freiham-Nord Germany (300 AD) ..... 9.04 - FN_2
Top 99% match vs all users

4. Iberian / Piedmont (670 AD) ..... 9.106 - CL94 -
Top 98% match vs all users

5. Gallo-Roman Celt Mix Iberia (80 AD) ..... 9.529 - I10866 -
Top 99% match vs all users

6. Proto Thracian/Illyrian Vucedol (2775 BC) ..... 10.09 - I3499 -
Top 99% match vs all users

7. Etruscan Civitavecchia (650 BC) ..... 10.31 - R474 -
Top 99% match vs all users

8. Bell Beaker Haunstetten Germany (2385 BC) ..... 10.35 - UNTA58_68Sk1 -
Top 99% match vs all users

9. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) ..... 10.75 - I3313 -
Top 96% match vs all users

10. Gallo-Roman Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 11.21 - R109 -
Top 99% match vs all users

11. Medieval Iberian (670 AD) ..... 11.31 - CL23 -
Top 98% match vs all users

12. High Status Male Haunstetten (2059 BC) ..... 11.38 - POST_44 -
Top 99% match vs all users

13. Late Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 11.46 - R105 -
Top 97% match vs all users

14. Le Mans Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 11.51 - LM_406_T -
Top 98% match vs all users

15. Vasconic-Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 11.54 - R110 -
Top 99% match vs all users

16. Medieval Villa Magna Italy (990 AD) ..... 11.72 - R63 -
Top 98% match vs all users

17. Gallo-Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 11.78 - R108 -
Top 96% match vs all users

18. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1485 AD) ..... 11.94 - R1221 -
Top 96% match vs all users

19. Bronze Age Spain Cogotas (1290 BC) ..... 12.13 - I12209 -
Top 99% match vs all users

20. Ilergetes Tribe Catalan (600 BC) ..... 12.19 - I4556 -
Top 99% match vs all users

21. North Alpine Bronze Age (1677 BC) ..... 12.2 - AITI_98 -
Top 99% match vs all users

22. Imperial Rome Mausoleo Augusto (500 AD) ..... 12.56 - R33 -
Top 96% match vs all users

23. Iron Age Catalan (620 BC) ..... 12.63 - I12640 -
Top 99% match vs all users

24. Ilergetes Tribe Catalan (440 BC) ..... 12.75 - I12878 -
Top 99% match vs all users

25. North Alpine Bronze Age (1794 BC) ..... 12.9 - AITI_43 -
Top 98% match vs all users

26. Ilergetes Tribe Catalan (200 BC) ..... 13.39 - I3320 -
Top 99% match vs all users

27. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 13.4 - scy300 -
Top 97% match vs all users

28. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (670 AD) ..... 13.4 - CL47b
Top 75% match vs all users

29. Medieval Piedmont (670 AD) ..... 13.45 - CL57 -
Top 90% match vs all users

30. Celtiberian Alemannic Mix (520 AD) ..... 13.46 - STR_535 - ?
Top 99% match vs all users

31. Early Medieval Andalusia (760 AD) ..... 13.46 - I3585 -
Top 95% match vs all users

32. Celtiberian Mix Tribe Northern Spain (2300 BC) ..... 13.49 - I3238 -
Top 99% match vs all users

33. Roman-Carthago Mix Iberia (80 AD) ..... 13.63 - I8475 -
Top 97% match vs all users

34. Etruscan Civitavecchia (650 BC) ..... 13.64 - R473 -
Top 98% match vs all users

35. Latin Tribe Inland BE (650 BC) ..... 13.81 - R1021 -
Top 99% match vs all users

36. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1429 AD) ..... 13.84 - R1289 -
Top 99% match vs all users

37. Celtoiberian Outlier Roman Empire VP (100 AD) ..... 13.88 - R116 -
Top 98% match vs all users

38. Western Scythian Outlier Hungary (550 BC) ..... 13.89 - DA198 -
Top 97% match vs all users

39. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) ..... 13.94 - SZ28 - ?
Top 94% match vs all users

40. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 14.01 - I4331 -
Top 94% match vs all users

41. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 14.06 - R55 -
Top 93% match vs all users

42. Vascones Tribe (460 BC) ..... 14.14 - I12879 -
Top 99% match vs all users

43. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 14.25 - I4332 -
Top 94% match vs all users

44. Bronze Age Spain Cogotas (1290 BC) ..... 14.25 - I12208 -
Top 99% match vs all users

45. Boscombe Bowmen Amesbury (2300 BC) ..... 14.27 - I2416-BB -
Top 99% match vs all users

46. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 14.28 - scy197b - ?
Top 94% match vs all users

47. High Status Burial Mound Haunstetten (2112 BC) ..... 14.38 - POST_50 -
Top 98% match vs all users

48. North Alpine Middle Bronze Age (1563 BC) ..... 14.42 - OTTM_151ind2 -
Top 98% match vs all users

49. Vascones Tribe Vasconia (280 BC) ..... 14.42 - I3759 -
Top 99% match vs all users

50. North Alpine Bronze Age (1797 BC) ..... 14.51 - AITI_66 -
Top 99% match vs all users

51. Portuguese Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 14.55 - I12514 -
Top 93% match vs all users

52. Rugii Tribe Oder-Vistula (135 AD) ..... 14.55 - PCA36 - ?
Top 83% match vs all users

53. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 14.59 - I2649
Top 94% match vs all users

54. Vascones Tribe Vasconia (280 BC) ..... 14.59 - I3758 -
Top 99% match vs all users

55. Crusader Knight French / Lebanon (1250 AD) ..... 14.61 - SI-40 -
Top 98% match vs all users

56. Iberian Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 14.62 - I7498 -
Top 94% match vs all users

57. Roman Era Girona (80 AD) ..... 14.63 - I8339 -
Top 99% match vs all users

58. Spaniard Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 14.64 - I12515 -
Top 92% match vs all users

59. Thraco-Cimmerian Black Sea (900 BC) ..... 14.67 - MJ12 -
Top 98% match vs all users

60. North Alpine Bronze Age (1752 BC) ..... 14.69 - AITI_120 -
Top 86% match vs all users

61. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1429 AD) ..... 14.69 - R1287 -
Top 95% match vs all users

62. Basque Carolingian (650 AD) ..... 14.73 - I3777 -
Top 99% match vs all users

63. Ilergetes Outlier Catalan (440 BC) ..... 14.75 - I12410 -
Top 99% match vs all users

64. Bronze Age Northern Spain (1440 BC) ..... 14.78 - I2472 -
Top 99% match vs all users

65. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 14.87 - scy305 -
Top 95% match vs all users

66. Latin Prenestini Tribe Inland PC (400 BC) ..... 15.05 - R435 -
Top 99% match vs all users

67. Scythian Southern Moldova (270 BC) ..... 15.08 - scy192 -
Top 94% match vs all users

68. Marseilles Plague Victim (1721 AD) ..... 15.24 - OBS137 - ?
Top 90% match vs all users

69. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 15.28 - R61 -
Top 89% match vs all users

70. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1100 AD) ..... 15.36 - I2515
Top 92% match vs all users

71. Vasconic Tribe (275 BC) ..... 15.38 - I8209 -
Top 99% match vs all users

72. Hispano-Roman-Mehrebi Cordoba Caliphate (950 AD) ..... 15.54 - I7497 -
Top 97% match vs all users

73. Scythian Moldova (290 BC) ..... 15.66 - scy311 -
Top 63% match vs all users

74. Vasconic Tribe Empuries (275 BC) ..... 15.68 - I8214 -
Top 99% match vs all users

75. Italy Bell Beaker (2000 BC) ..... 15.71 - I2478 -
Top 99% match vs all users

76. Basque Carolingian (790 AD) ..... 15.77 - I7673 -
Top 99% match vs all users

77. Villanovan Etruscan Italy VGG (850 BC) ..... 15.88 - R1015 -
Top 98% match vs all users

78. Portuguese Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 15.95 - I12516 -


I have up to 150 samples on screen but up to a distance of 15 my main samples are these, I don't know if this can shed some light. By the way what do you think of MTA.

I think MTA is interesting, especially the deep dive matches, because it shows if your personally related to ancient samples, I don’t think your closest ancient reference samples really sheds light on the origins of your Y line, as an example not saying this is the case with your direct paternal ancestor, but let’s say your line came to Spain during the Roman era from Egypt, ancient Egyptians won’t show up in your MTA top 150, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you wouldn’t have an ancestor from there via your Y line, you get what i’m trying to say?

hantrolugharsts
12-08-2019, 05:00 PM
Yes I understand, there are the rest of ancestors. And my line And it is only an ancestor and also atypical for the area.

Although it seems strange to me that it would have been directly from Egypt to Spain, I have the intuition of another combination. When the progress is finished, I imagine that it will be possible to know with certainty whether it was even in Roman times or earlier.


I really only got Egypt but with an imputed file CVF:

Ptolemaic Egypt
50 BC
JK2888
mtDNA: U6a2Y-DNA: E1b1b1a1b2-V22
Total cM=525.77
Largest segment=16.56 cM (128 shared. Sample quality: 2) - Your raw DNA is 99% closer than other matching users

But the quality of the sample is 2 and with modern matches I only get 12 with someone modern from Egypt from there until BigY there is no modern match with anyone which makes me think that my dnaY should have been in Europe for some time.

hantrolugharsts
12-08-2019, 11:55 PM
Seeing these results could not be even before the Roman era?

MDLP World-22 4-Ancestors Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 38.67
2 North-East-European 35.87
3 Near_East 10.84
4 West-Asian 9.27
5 North-European-Mesolithic 2.88
6 Sub-Saharian 1.84

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Swiss_derived @ 4.583024
2 Italian_North_derived @ 5.249308
3 Provancestralal_derived @ 6.387366
4 Montenegrin_derived @ 8.762912
5 Bulgarian_derived @ 9.496204
6 Macedonian_derived @ 9.626423
7 French_derived @ 9.998287
8 German-South_derived @ 10.169173
9 Romania_derived @ 10.332381
10 Portugese_derived @ 11.042798
11 Serbian_derived @ 11.743167
12 Gagauz_derived @ 11.949269
13 Italian-North_derived @ 12.027558
14 Iberian_derived @ 12.618364
15 Spaniard_derived @ 13.150585
16 Corsican_derived @ 14.202402
17 Ashkenazim_V_derived @ 15.203705
18 Kosovar_derived @ 15.479106
19 CEU_derived @ 16.100748
20 British_derived @ 16.133833

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Macedonian_derived +50% Portugese_derived @ 2.304605


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% CEU_V_derived +25% Jew_Morocco_derived +25% Spaniard_derived @ 1.538278


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic_ancestral + Estonian_derived + Palestinian_derived + Polish_V_derived @ 0.998187
2 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic_ancestral + Estonian_derived + Palestinian_derived + Ukrainian-East_derived @ 1.157076
3 Basque_derived + Croatian_derived + Jew_Libya_derived + Swedish_derived @ 1.209887
4 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic_ancestral + Estonian_derived + Palestinian_derived + Ukrainian-Center_derived @ 1.277286
5 Basque_derived + Bosnian_derived + Jew_Libya_derived + Swedish_derived @ 1.284091
6 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic_ancestral + Belarusian_V_derived + Estonian_derived + Palestinian_derived @ 1.315027
7 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic_ancestral + Estonian_derived + Palestinian_derived + Sorb_derived @ 1.331637
8 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic_ancestral + Estonian_derived + Palestinian_derived + Ukrainian_derived @ 1.331944
9 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic_ancestral + Estonian_derived + Palestinian_derived + Russian_cossack_derived @ 1.350839
10 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic_ancestral + Estonian_derived + Palestinian_derived + Russian_South_derived @ 1.362439
11 Basque_derived + Bosnian_derived + Jew_Tunisia_derived + Swedish_derived @ 1.402840
12 Basque_derived + Croatian_derived + German-North_derived + Jew_Libya_derived @ 1.408830
13 Basque_derived + Jew_Libya_derived + Polish_V_derived + Swiss_derived @ 1.415178
14 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic_ancestral + Latvian_derived + Palestinian_derived + Ukrainian-Center_derived @ 1.423932
15 Basque_derived + German-North_derived + Hungarian_derived + Jew_Libya_derived @ 1.440132
16 Basque_derived + Estonian_derived + Jew_Morocco_derived + Kosovar_derived @ 1.450880
17 Basque_derived + Croatian_derived + Jew_Tunisia_derived + Swedish_derived @ 1.465864
18 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic_ancestral + Latvian_derived + Palestinian_derived + Ukrainian_V_derived @ 1.484901
19 Basque_derived + Corsican_derived + Jew_Algeria_derived + Latvian_derived @ 1.491751
20 Basque_derived + Jew_Tunisia_derived + Polish_V_derived + Swiss_derived @ 1.510825

Done.

Elapsed time 3.1448 seconds.


For Eurasia K3 Oracle
Obtained:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 W_Eurasian 95.69
2 SSA 3.19
3 E_Eurasian 1.13

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cypriot @ 0.000000
2 Sicilian @ 0.000000
3 Spanish @ 1.697873
4 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 1.746380
5 Assyrian @ 1.950527
6 Iraqi_Jew @ 2.087820
7 Armenian @ 2.257249
8 Greek @ 2.666393
9 Iranian_Jew @ 2.896940
10 Albanian @ 3.124135
11 Georgian @ 3.150033
12 Bulgarian @ 3.162586
13 French @ 3.604781
14 Sardinian @ 3.762817
15 Croatian @ 3.792613
16 French_South @ 3.828988
17 Czech @ 3.860124
18 Norwegian @ 3.890495
19 LBK_EN @ 3.928125
20 Georgian_Jew @ 3.982468

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot +50% Cypriot @ 0.000000
2 50% Cypriot +50% Sicilian @ 0.000000
3 50% Sicilian +50% Sicilian @ 0.000000
4 50% Iraqi_Jew +50% Spanish @ 0.339556
5 50% Ashkenazi_Jew +50% Spanish @ 0.696658
6 50% Cypriot +50% Spanish @ 0.784778
7 50% Sicilian +50% Spanish @ 0.800104
8 50% Ashkenazi_Jew +50% Cypriot @ 0.801939
9 50% Iraqi_Jew +50% Sardinian @ 0.830518
10 50% Greek +50% Iraqi_Jew @ 0.846720
11 50% Assyrian +50% Cypriot @ 0.891858
12 50% Iraqi_Jew +50% LBK_EN @ 0.918160
13 50% Assyrian +50% Spanish @ 0.941020
14 50% Ashkenazi_Jew +50% Sicilian @ 0.946538
15 50% Armenian +50% Cypriot @ 0.988360
16 50% French_South +50% Iraqi_Jew @ 1.037942
17 50% Assyrian +50% Sicilian @ 1.047735
18 50% Cypriot +50% Iraqi_Jew @ 1.056960
19 50% Bergamo +50% Iraqi_Jew @ 1.058785
20 50% Albanian +50% Iraqi_Jew @ 1.082605


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Albanian +25% Bergamo +25% Saudi @ 0.000000

hantrolugharsts
12-12-2019, 12:36 AM
Over 80% of Belgian E1b1b samples and about half of Dutch E1b1b samples belong to the E-V13 subclade, which emerged in the Bronze Age and might have been brought to the Low Countries with the Proto-Indo-Europeans from Central Europe, alongside R1b and R1a lineages. So far, isolated samples have been found of E-M81 (Dutch province of Utrecht and Walloon province of Hainaut), E-M34 (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Dutch province of Overijssel province, and Walloon province of Namur), E-V22 (Amsterdam, and Dutch provinces of Friesland and Overijssel) and E-V65 (Rotterdam).

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/benelux_france_dna_project.shtml

I get a lot of Cimerians in the accused and Gauls for a tube in the undisputed.

My paternal family supports the legend by my paternal line, my YDNA to descend from a deserter of Napoleon's troops. I do not have tangible evidence but I think that someone from a small town was going to invent something like that?

hantrolugharsts
02-21-2021, 02:37 PM
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OHLE7abNeaY/XmUz623QdpI/AAAAAAAADI0/x8AI5y-5dhoHlKOHas0ZsbfMXu2z4_N0ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Marzo2020.jpg

I have obtained this result in additional populations in My Heritage
And now what name shall we give the child?

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5HPGd5fnBHk/X-SyT9cTDoI/AAAAAAAAFRk/0shAsXQERIoy6HPUfDYpxhIjvWfB3RxggCLcBGAsYHQ/s341/Mapemyheritage.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q8zfIMX6LYY/X-kXDvK0TUI/AAAAAAAAFUE/-tMPwOhtE4c1gd1Hec-Mp7wtOKmclRKNACLcBGAsYHQ/s1365/Flevoland5.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q8zfIMX6LYY/X-kXDvK0TUI/AAAAAAAAFUE/-tMPwOhtE4c1gd1Hec-Mp7wtOKmclRKNACLcBGAsYHQ/s1365/Flevoland5.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AAML_NGZ2NI/X-kSWTNH-PI/AAAAAAAAFT4/HEoffjJ10kAH05Z9eFcTAuI6_LoS0BL_gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1366/Flevoland4.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MHHR0459XM8/X-o4rAcZDPI/AAAAAAAAFUQ/kYQO5crLJWU2qMoOyFSpHHFBmc_8qv1JwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1364/HolandaFlevoland5.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TUzDdxLVRXE/X-o-AKHbrjI/AAAAAAAAFU8/aFMiqgDnN3UTVIYQXZrStiw4qmhMfRMQwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1362/FlevolandOverjssel5.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-o_ldNml3mog/X-ptlLsNitI/AAAAAAAAFVI/43zuYPXjEsM5HsI2kaplGxjZ9tbY6BVwQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1364/FlevolandOverjsseletniascomunes6.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Jc_Edi6XQY8/X-pwZdQfnjI/AAAAAAAAFVg/g3-3uLWEA80SD2_dwDwLV0ydGv1p4ti-QCLcBGAsYHQ/s479/HolandaFlevoland3.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3tZifZ1xrKM/X_GcmrnbKKI/AAAAAAAAFkE/E5hIccyE01cOxwd3a6xyJLnz64Cur4CsgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1361/ApellidosHolanda.jpeg

hantrolugharsts
02-22-2021, 02:38 PM
Also in my father's results it is indicated that our ancestor was Italian so the family oral tradition was right in relation to a foreign origin of our ancestor placing his arrival during the Napoleonic occupation of Spain.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Va-gPUkPRMU/YDLC1OVgNRI/AAAAAAAAF3A/0n8WyfrAKQoc5mHL06oMeRYpaVmxr5eiQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1335/Italian.jpeg

You most likely had a third-great-grandparent, fourth-great-grandparent, fifth-great-grandparent, or sixth-great-grandparent who was 100% Italian. This person was likely born between 1690 and 1780.


https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lSOXGNOOYBo/YDLaPp_XTHI/AAAAAAAAF3o/kNt0JoaZaUsFahPGWnWRtRVfXkqXnmL4ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1352/Espa%25C3%25B1olAbuelo.jpeg

You most likely had a parent, or grandparent who was 100% Spanish. This person was likely born between 1870 and 1900.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0E5mceOxdDw/YDLCMD1Cw1I/AAAAAAAAF20/gVd5gFlitFoOx0UsUl7S8zmxvWb_fteuQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1273/Pap%25C3%25A1SpanishItalian.jpeg

"The French occupation of Spain, 1808-1814:Army.

There is a gap in points 4 and 3.

Could there be a third country at stake?

Point 4 and 3, someone with an Italian father and a mother of another nationality... due to a previous migration of the Italian to another country?

hantrolugharsts
03-05-2021, 12:51 AM
Also in my father's results it is indicated that our ancestor was Italian so the family oral tradition was right in relation to a foreign origin of our ancestor placing his arrival during the Napoleonic occupation of Spain.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Va-gPUkPRMU/YDLC1OVgNRI/AAAAAAAAF3A/0n8WyfrAKQoc5mHL06oMeRYpaVmxr5eiQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1335/Italian.jpeg

You most likely had a third-great-grandparent, fourth-great-grandparent, fifth-great-grandparent, or sixth-great-grandparent who was 100% Italian. This person was likely born between 1690 and 1780.


https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lSOXGNOOYBo/YDLaPp_XTHI/AAAAAAAAF3o/kNt0JoaZaUsFahPGWnWRtRVfXkqXnmL4ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1352/Espa%25C3%25B1olAbuelo.jpeg

You most likely had a parent, or grandparent who was 100% Spanish. This person was likely born between 1870 and 1900.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0E5mceOxdDw/YDLCMD1Cw1I/AAAAAAAAF20/gVd5gFlitFoOx0UsUl7S8zmxvWb_fteuQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1273/Pap%25C3%25A1SpanishItalian.jpeg

"The French occupation of Spain, 1808-1814:Army.

There is a gap in points 4 and 3.

Could there be a third country at stake?

Point 4 and 3, someone with an Italian father and a mother of another nationality... due to a previous migration of the Italian to another country?

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OHLE7abNeaY/XmUz623QdpI/AAAAAAAADI0/x8AI5y-5dhoHlKOHas0ZsbfMXu2z4_N0ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Marzo2020.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Va-gPUkPRMU/YDLC1OVgNRI/AAAAAAAAF3A/0n8WyfrAKQoc5mHL06oMeRYpaVmxr5eiQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1335/Italian.jpeg

After an arduous work of image recovery through a photograph of my paternal ancestral family that was published in a local magazine and that I photographed many years ago with an old cell phone and to have a family memory without knowing one day I would reach this point thanks to my tenacity, ability to overcome and my desire to move forward and above all to know what happened and how it was.

[Moderator: removed -- see forum rules 3.12 and 3.13]

hantrolugharsts
03-10-2021, 01:37 AM
My father's MTA results.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ho9EsjM2OQI/YDRz2lCR5PI/AAAAAAAAF4c/o-S41poxvqEaiXemSC4yeiMgq0Nw3uOWQCLcBGAsYHQ/s563/AncientDeepDive.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VnkjPn0yVRw/YDRz_xewGpI/AAAAAAAAF4g/x2qH9QhtLHwF_vcFtU00T9SIfpg5cbU9ACLcBGAsYHQ/s546/DeepDiveBreakDown.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qAzzwtljaiA/YDSCldJNFYI/AAAAAAAAF6U/LszKeS2d24cwHg6IoWBJcRGMwvdXr4-JgCLcBGAsYHQ/s557/AncientSampleBreakdown.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dRIG2BCsXYQ/YDSClcvg1oI/AAAAAAAAF6Q/Z5mNU1VpZ8M31WWTMST_pBdzauk5BoEVACLcBGAsYHQ/s527/AncientSampleBreakdown2.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DiVWRXCbGh8/YDR_DUdjW6I/AAAAAAAAF4s/nAMIzQ2H8FQHImF1WeOq8T5MjUqEVTmPwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1309/CopperAgeAlburgLerchenhaidStraubingBavaria2225bcI2 590.JPEG
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-q3S-zX1NYaY/YDR_DT7UzlI/AAAAAAAAF4w/gALDocYzidoh5D90E00wgQ8ybNm19fbyQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1307/CopperAgeAlburgLerchenhaidStraubingBavaria2225bcI3 590.JPEG
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bgERdLZDog8/YDR_DYoAg5I/AAAAAAAAF40/2vuE7UvB2nooxktyUHq0IGCKSLAk-g2vgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1308/EarlyBronzeAgeMokrinNecropolisSerbia1950bcMK15.JPE G
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7wzW_KZJ1NU/YDR_ENUrZfI/AAAAAAAAF44/V_bYxFWKBWEzjM4YG_HLL_HUGksFrnNpACLcBGAsYHQ/s1309/EarlyBronzeAgeMokrinNecropolisSerbia1950bcMK29.JPE G
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cqe5z0Djnis/YDR_Fnoc_UI/AAAAAAAAF48/pcnH7ofZzN0ZzQGvxz58O2kjhobd07QRACLcBGAsYHQ/s1310/EtruscanCivitavecchia650BcR473.jpeg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-w92E0g7TEPI/YDR_GVjK4VI/AAAAAAAAF5A/oA-dvbPoz8grHI1JRHT5qE9YG-JOa8bcgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1311/EtruscanCivitavecchia650BcR474.jpeg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rY6P82x5heY/YDR_HUX_XvI/AAAAAAAAF5E/h6HR_diP3tgVdcOyrlIIN809eDt481u9ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1311/GalloRoman590adSZ28.JPEG
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-puxgKlbjsOE/YDR_ISHDgwI/AAAAAAAAF5I/MhA4oX7uxXYUVSAaAcXq1MlzxBVKLwfsQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1308/GalloRomanLombardGrave580CL94.jpeg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FlUy-zR0NMg/YDR_KpBuOmI/AAAAAAAAF5Q/Cuw-TeY6KnMKvTDdxYrEsMZnHg8oXrhZACLcBGAsYHQ/s1312/IllyrianDalmatian1600bcI4332.JPEG
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Iptk48g0ghs/YDR_Ldtm15I/AAAAAAAAF5U/Ri0O5mMjgEgGA2ovh536ykFKhj5uHytOQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1311/IllyrianDalmatian1600bcR108.JPEG
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-z94p6lKch1c/YDR_MKIygTI/AAAAAAAAF5Y/RFHH66BVVsgrrd6sLgqqKHWMZuoEBGUowCLcBGAsYHQ/s1308/ImperialRomeMausoleoAugusto500adR33.JPEG
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ckd1fW460Kk/YDR_NqyC7VI/AAAAAAAAF5c/YqAPfj0-sd8hoKvAtRzLS9DytLgEgCdKgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1314/LateMedievalCancilleriaBasilica1429adR1287.JPEG
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ju0_BwlNy4I/YDR_OH1XIvI/AAAAAAAAF5g/DXI865MRQYwEYCoBbDym2E9tLMorqdr0wCLcBGAsYHQ/s1312/LateRomanMixCryptaBalbi500adR105.JPEG
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zvhoIiflfs8/YDR_OMOl0aI/AAAAAAAAF5k/i9IDfzoJz9kRalNcxjFm_vRxUkV73iB9QCLcBGAsYHQ/s1311/MedievalCancarroChurchFoggiaItaly1150adVK538.JPEG
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RsLjPAFSLqo/YDR_PrXzniI/AAAAAAAAF5o/_eLuIvv9fSQMP6s7Z2Myjs6G7wBXj6kTwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1313/MedievalCancilleriaBasilica1005adR1285.JPEG
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rw-Uj1CQW00/YDR_RdgUxDI/AAAAAAAAF5w/7bZ_FOnan1cBtpQH0bzcy2MHQFEeGhVkACLcBGAsYHQ/s1311/MedievalVillaMagnaItalyR63.JPEG

hantrolugharsts
03-10-2021, 01:37 AM
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CoiVb-Kx8Dc/YDR_QpASEKI/AAAAAAAAF5s/OJdE8UuFQfc0UYFvcpePllEX5ljQFt5swCLcBGAsYHQ/s1310/RomanCarthagoMixEmpuries150adI8475.JPEG
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3DEBI6tIL7I/YDR_RwTEOcI/AAAAAAAAF50/ez3Z8c9DgTsaOjfOcpkFBJZwx2MY-x-rQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1310/RomanIllyrianLombardGrave580adCL23.jpeg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sxwxn-RAubA/YDZcyzxFRvI/AAAAAAAAF6o/7GXLmJ9rfhw9SVsm_GzXlRoEsyBTErdpwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1309/ModernPeriod.jpeg

Farroukh
03-17-2021, 04:30 AM
Perhaps, completely European subclade E-BY7556 (6 kybp) is last part of Iberomaurusian culture (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberomaurusian)

hantrolugharsts
03-17-2021, 02:06 PM
Perhaps, completely European subclade E-BY7556 (6 kybp) is last part of Iberomaurusian culture (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberomaurusian)

I don't see it, where is it?

hantrolugharsts
03-17-2021, 03:48 PM
The French military presence in the Peninsula averaged about 100,000 men, or one-sixth to one-quarter of the land forces. Two thirds were stationed in northern Italy, where in 1805, 1809 and 1813-14 the Armée d'Italie (1793-1801) was reactivated. From 1806 to 1811 the second Armée de Naples was stationed in southern Italy (soon reduced from 61,000 to 35,000 men, including 10-12,000 at Corfu, 10-18,000 in Calabria, and 3,000 in Rome). From 1806 the British maintained about 8 to 10 percent of their land forces in Sicily, or 13 to 23,000 men, including, however, the 7,000 employed in Egypt in 1807 and 2,500 in the Ionian Islands in 1809-14. In addition to maintaining French troops, Italy provided Napoleon with nearly half a million men (out of three million in 1800-14, a third of whom were allies and "new French"). The Italian departments of the empire provided at least 130,000 soldiers and 10,000 sailors, the Italic Kingdom 200,000 and 10,000, and the Kingdom of Naples 100,000 and 10,000 (these figures, however, include 10,000 Dalmatians, 5,000 Corsicans, and another 20,000 French and foreigners in Italic or Neapolitan service). About 250,000 - one-fifth of the Neapolitans, more than half of the Italics, and almost all of the "French" Italians - were employed outside the Peninsula.

https://www.napoleon-series.org/military-info/organization/Italy/ItalyStudy/c_ItalyStudyIntro.html

Desertion generally occurred in the first half of military life and until the recruits crossed the Alps: only in Spain was the desertion of Italians (and especially of Neapolitans in 1810) systematically organized by the Spanish resistance and the English commandos.

Farroukh
03-17-2021, 05:53 PM
https://yfull.com/tree/E-BY7566/

hantrolugharsts
03-17-2021, 07:56 PM
https://yfull.com/tree/E-BY7566/

It's me

I had made a typo in an issue and thought it was something new.

Culture iberomaurusian, by the way let's see when they change the name because that name is incorrect and confuses the new generations of glass.

My response: No

At least for my dna Y line I have never been in those caves, I would not have fit, look for something taller and bigger.

StillWater
03-17-2021, 10:46 PM
Perhaps, completely European subclade E-BY7556 (6 kybp) is last part of Iberomaurusian culture (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberomaurusian)

More likely, the divergence implies we're missing key samples and Egypt is far undersampled.

Moderator
03-24-2021, 09:37 PM
A reminder of our Terms of Service with regard to phenotype discussions:


3.12 Discussions pertaining to physical appearance and/or phenotype that are quantitative and accompanied with structured analysis are generally welcome in Anthrogenica. However, subjective and arbitrary discussions relating to either subject that are agreed by our administration to breach section 3.11 above are generally prohibited. What constitutes as the aforementioned, and whether further action is required outside of content modification, will be carried out at the administration's discretion.

3.13 Further to the above, threads or posts forwarding requests for ethnicity guessing or 'classifications' based on the pseudoscientific precepts of 'racial taxonomy' are automatically considered as both devoid of substance and trivial. Such content will be deleted without prior notice. However, the citation of basic 'racial taxonomy' categories as explicitly used in historical or modern literature is permissible. Please note members who persistently defy this aspect of content moderation will be sanctioned as deemed appropriate by the administration.

If you're interested in having such discussions, please do so elsewhere.

StillWater
03-24-2021, 11:26 PM
[Moderator: quotes deleted text]


You think I removed your pictures or asked others to remove them?

hantrolugharsts
03-29-2021, 07:17 PM
One match for my father and one for me in the Hanseatic league. Does anyone have information on these two samples or if they are on Gedmatch?


Mine
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CD_J2_zVmEY/YGHctskhmRI/AAAAAAAAGC8/FWWSsTcoeO4LR6BrgFOl_noWDoyD3guWQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1324/HanseaticLeague.jpg

Father
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MfkWSmvSNLU/YGHcWcMlICI/AAAAAAAAGC0/E36JQ89tOCYvhmfEIiFGcJOPRdEM52XpgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1320/HanseaticLeaguepop.jpeg

hantrolugharsts
04-06-2021, 02:28 PM
Finally I have also got this sample where I match my father; although I am somewhat closer which makes me suppose that my father's dna file is perhaps not yet fully complete, supposedly my father should be closer than me or it may be small mismatches once loaded in MTA as we both had it done by different companies.


Father
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_f3A07U1WH8/YGxtFUEDAJI/AAAAAAAAGEo/bup0Ka0a_AgFUigbnBAyatf_10w3sQ27wCLcBGAsYHQ/s447/HanseaticLeagueHGC1579.JPEG

Mine
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-h3TV604sFrU/YGxrdxxGuXI/AAAAAAAAGEQ/6SPdR5R8jWUlNusMu5gjx4p3VkJUGG7oACLcBGAsYHQ/s461/HanseaticLeaguHGC1579.JPEG

Farroukh
04-11-2021, 06:47 AM
E-BY7449 consists of two main branches. The first one is Ashkenazi subclade E-BY7517, the second one is E-BY7566 (Spain/Netherlands)

Taking it into account it is possible to assume E-BY7566 as a relict Sephardic branch

StillWater
04-11-2021, 07:28 AM
E-BY7449 consists of two main branches. The first one is Ashkenazi subclade E-BY7517, the second one is E-BY7566 (Spain/Netherlands)

Taking it into account it is possible to assume E-BY7566 as a relict Sephardic branch

YFull doesn't give the complete picture. The Jewish branch actually has a neighboring branch with a Kuwaiti. The joint branch between Jews and the Kuwaiti is the one that has E-BY7566 as its neighbor. Given the distance between the Dutch and the Spaniard in BY7566, I doubt the origin is Sephardi.

hantrolugharsts
04-11-2021, 02:33 PM
E-BY7449 consists of two main branches. The first one is Ashkenazi subclade E-BY7517, the second one is E-BY7566 (Spain/Netherlands)

Taking it into account it is possible to assume E-BY7566 as a relict Sephardic branch

Haven't you seen my publications? My dna Y enters Spain from 1810-1814

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0E5mceOxdDw/YDLCMD1Cw1I/AAAAAAAAF20/gVd5gFlitFoOx0UsUl7S8zmxvWb_fteuQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1273/Pap%25C3%25A1SpanishItalian.jpeg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Va-gPUkPRMU/YDLC1OVgNRI/AAAAAAAAF3A/0n8WyfrAKQoc5mHL06oMeRYpaVmxr5eiQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1335/Italian.jpeg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lSOXGNOOYBo/YDLaPp_XTHI/AAAAAAAAF3o/kNt0JoaZaUsFahPGWnWRtRVfXkqXnmL4ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1352/Espa%25C3%25B1olAbuelo.jpeg

This result is from my father:

He speaks of my ancestor by dna And there is no chance that he is another ancestor as we have no Italian surname in the family and we do know that the deserter from Napoleon's troops who changed his surname.

The points 4 and 3 are empty as complete Italian could well be my ancestor of paternal ancestry in Italy but already with several generations in another country because in 4 and 3 approx. does not mark as complete Italian.

There is the flag of Spain because I am Spanish but by dnaY what would the flag really be?

So now you know that the Spanish flag YF66572 of Y full is between (1808-1814 AD) I hope that is clear.

I have nothing to do with the Sephardim so they are already looking for another hypothesis.

Farroukh
04-11-2021, 02:44 PM
Dear amigo hantrolugharsts, hola!

Yes, I saw your posts here. Most of them are about autosomal results and have no relation to Y-DNA lineage ancestry. As you know, during 6-7 generations of admixture initial autosomal background will be completely replaced by local portrait. We are talking here about Y-DNA only.
Unfortunately, except terminal Y-SNP (E-BY7566), you did not post any info about your Y-DNA (Y-STR matches).

Can you post here your Y-STR matches?

hantrolugharsts
04-11-2021, 05:05 PM
Dear amigo hantrolugharsts, hola!

Yes, I saw your posts here. Most of them are about autosomal results and have no relation to Y-DNA lineage ancestry. As you know, during 6-7 generations of admixture initial autosomal background will be completely replaced by local portrait. We are talking here about Y-DNA only.
Unfortunately, except terminal Y-SNP (E-BY7566), you did not post any info about your Y-DNA (Y-STR matches).

Can you post here your Y-STR matches?

Global results where somehow the Y dna ancestor must also be present and since these are my results and I know my family history, it is easier for me to see it than for any other outsider.

Y-STR matches with whom or with what with the Dutchman?

hantrolugharsts
04-11-2021, 06:04 PM
Father:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_ROtA0oHZYw/YHMz4LXeUxI/AAAAAAAAGFA/jXZkgOAMI3oeR-lI1BU2pZFNpDyk-3nCgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1965/matchesPop.jpeg

E1b1b1a1b1a - Iberian Cordoba Caliphate (I7498)
E1b1b1a1b1 - Girona Sant Julia de Ramis (I10853)
E1b1b1b1a1 - Hispano-Roman Taifa of Valencia (I12644)
E1b1b1a1b1a - Carthago Al-Andalus Alhama de Granada (I7457)
E1b1b1a - Early Medieval Iberia Granada (I3981)
E1b1b1b1 - Carthago-Iberian-Mehrebi Cordoba Caliphate (I7500)
E1b - Medieval Tyrolian (SZ18)
E1b1b1b1a1 - Medieval Taifa of Valencia (I12649)
E1b1b1a1a1 - Carthago Outlier Roman Empire VP (R113)
E1b1b1b1 - Post-Reconquista Granada (I3807)
E1b1b1a1b1a - Hungary Late Avar Szekkutas-Kapolnadulo (SzKper239)
E1b1b1a1a1 - Medieval Villa Magna Italy (R59)
E1b1b1a1b1a - Late Roman Empire Crypta Balbi (R107)
E1b1b1a1b1a - Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona (I12031)
E1b1b1a1b1a - Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (R1219)
E1b1b1a1b1a - Viking Age Bogovej Langeland Denmark (VK362)
E1b1b1b2 - Skeleton Lake Traveller - Hellenic (I3404)


We are:

E1b1b1a1c*V22+


Mine:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-P2gHms4oos8/YHM3x7Mko2I/AAAAAAAAGFI/kweXhnJ2SbM7Zl82ThmPF4f9wn3yiNwpwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1543/matchMIOydna.jpg

Y-DNA Summary for E1b

= Royal Haplogroup (tap for details)
Green denotes Ancient Sample matches
Purple denotes Deep Dive matches (matching DNA segments)

E1b1b1a1b1 - Girona Sant Julia de Ramis (I10853)
E1b1b1a1b1a - Iberian Cordoba Caliphate (I7498)
E1b1b1b1a1 - Hispano-Roman Taifa of Valencia (I12644)
E1b1b1a1b1a - Carthago Al-Andalus Alhama de Granada (I7457)
E1b - Medieval Tyrolian (SZ18)
E1b1b1a - Early Medieval Iberia Granada (I3981)
E1b1b1b1a1 - Medieval Taifa of Valencia (I12649)
E1b1b1a1b1a - Hungary Late Avar Szekkutas-Kapolnadulo (SzKper239)
E1b1b1a1b1a - Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (R1219)
E1b1b1a1b1a - Viking Age Bogovej Langeland Denmark (VK362)
E1b1b1b1 - Post-Reconquista Granada (I3807)
E1b1b1b1 - Carthago-Iberian-Mehrebi Cordoba Caliphate (I7500)
E1b1b1a1a1 - Carthago Outlier Roman Empire VP (R113)
E1b1b1a1b1a - Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona (I12031)
E1b1b1a1a1 - Medieval Villa Magna Italy (R59)
E1b1b1a1b1a - Late Roman Empire Crypta Balbi (R107)


E1b1b1a1c is our haplogroup and there are old samples that do not have the final subclade and also we can see the ones that could be, when they are ready we will talk.


And these are my autosomal results and there must also be my dna Y responsible there or where is it going to be, the fact that it is autosomal excludes the guy? And it must be related to the smallest values.

Are you seeing it or not because I see it.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Pn_rDRtsv_0/X-eMFFCDdrI/AAAAAAAAFSw/2Elbt9P_C5M-7MKFFp59GWKa5HRXMZpVgCLcBGAsYHQ/s502/AllOriginsPercentages2020.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5LevNrxJkTo/X-eMJdd_nlI/AAAAAAAAFS0/fmUGXSh9CvAgFmB72lSgbN3OeKOXrRrCQCLcBGAsYHQ/s600/AllOriginswESTERNeUROPEPercentages2020.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KsHeXA0OYJo/X-eMN4OtRmI/AAAAAAAAFS8/FdjFHJM-6twrzfyauqNyYJ2-rCOwR2waQCLcBGAsYHQ/s561/AllOriginsEasternEuropePercentages2020.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Hwu2YV1-uE0/X-eMQuP6ZVI/AAAAAAAAFTA/pV1u55Pis_UyaONpDQDJ92Y9bFuJP4yvwCLcBGAsYHQ/s591/AllOriginsFinishPercentages2020.jpg

Farroukh
04-12-2021, 05:04 PM
Global results where somehow the Y dna ancestor must also be present and since these are my results and I know my family history, it is easier for me to see it than for any other outsider.

Y-STR matches with whom or with what with the Dutchman?
That is great if you know everything. Do you have DYS values?
If you do just post them here.

hantrolugharsts
04-22-2021, 12:25 PM
My father's FTDNA results

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JaeVRlkAXVw/YIFpmwY4faI/AAAAAAAAGFs/mXYZc8Sq4rAcLpNftOlFw-gl7mMJk8CVACLcBGAsYHQ/s1359/FTDNAOr%25C3%25ADgenes.jpg

Comparison of my results with those of my father:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--ySb-GJn9kU/YIFp0-mcBkI/AAAAAAAAGFw/P7yZQU9KHSkC3yV1Jq0e_-VWh2fJms3vQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1339/CompareFatherandSon.jpeg

Farroukh
04-23-2021, 06:04 PM
It is an autosomal results, not Y-DNA. Why don't you post Y-STRs?
It will make us able to compare your haplotype with database.
Instead of it you post galleries of autosomal screenshots which have no meaning during Y-STR review.

You can see Y-STRs in the "Y-STR results" section at FTDNA profile.

hantrolugharsts
04-29-2021, 07:16 PM
My father's Haplogroup

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-N_qs9vZR7pQ/YIsCiK-jH1I/AAAAAAAAGHc/RzmWDMSWxY0j5Hsgk8kvLlBK5GICx0K0wCLcBGAsYHQ/s1199/L677.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wz94KLjzWus/YIsC3YoyxdI/AAAAAAAAGHk/7Bj2bJgUCDUjFeWOU9HQ65P7BLRFZEhUACLcBGAsYHQ/s3236/L677bis.JPEG