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xripkan
11-29-2019, 04:03 PM
I ordered two SNPs to find out which is my clade under R-F2935<R-Z93. I am positive to R-YP4768 which has been found in various European areas. So far it has been found in 2 men from England, 1 Scot, 1 from Cantabria of Spain and 1 Pole from Poland/Ukraine borders with distant paternal ancestry from Wallachia . TMRCA is 2700 ybp, so about I share a common paternal ancestor with these individuals from 700 BC or even later.
So it seems that my paternal lineage is from an Alan/Sarmatian tribe from Northern Balkans and more specifically ancient Dacia. Many Sarmatians and Alans moved to England during the Roman period and this could explain how R-Z93 exists in Britain. Furthermore R-Z93 found in Cantabria must have arrived by Visigoths who assimilated many Sarmatians and more specifically the tribe of Roxolani who were livinng in Dacia area. Cantabria is the Spanish area with the highest frequency of Vissigothic haplogroups.
The Pole has distant ancestry from Wallachia which is the area where the tribe of Roxolani were living. So I think that my haplogroup comes from Roxolani. Roxolani were an offshoot of Alans.
The other downstream of R-F2935 is R-F1019 which is from Central Asia (probably from ancient Scythians/Saka tribes of this region). Alans and Sarmatians came in Europe from Eurasian steppes during 2nd century BC. This indicates that my haplogroup is from Alan/Sarmatian tribes and not from older Scythian and Cimmerian R-Z93 tribes of Europe.

xripkan
11-29-2019, 05:29 PM
delete

Johnny ola
12-02-2019, 03:30 PM
The point is how this ydna founded among a Peloponnesian Greek like you.

xripkan
12-02-2019, 03:37 PM
The point is how this ydna founded among a Peloponnesian Greek like you.

I am a Peloponnesian Greek but my family came from Constantinople during 15th century. I am sure about that. My paternal ancestors moved from Constantinople to Southern Greece and Italy. My surname exists also in Southern Italy regions, many Italians have told me that. So it is not so starnge to have this haplogroup since Constantinople during Middle Ages was like New York in modern times.

Johnny ola
12-02-2019, 04:11 PM
I am a Peloponnesian Greek but my family came from Constantinople during 15th century. I am sure about that. My paternal ancestors moved from Constantinople to Southern Greece and Italy. My surname exists also in Southern Italy regions, many Italians have told me that. So it is not so starnge to have this haplogroup since Constantinople during Middle Ages was like New York in modern times.

Then you are not pure Peloponnesian. If your grand-grand-grand father come from Constantinoupoli you might be pretty much everything.Byzantium emperors had mercenaries from every corner of the world. As I know from history Alans-Sarmatians never reached Peloponnesus. The only connection of Alan's with Peloponnesus it might be during the Slavic migrations but I really doubt tbh.

xripkan
12-02-2019, 04:37 PM
Then you are not pure Peloponnesian. If your grand-grand-grand father come from Constantinoupoli you might be pretty much everything.Byzantium emperors had mercenaries from every corner of the world. As I know from history Alans-Sarmatians never reached Peloponnesus. The only connection of Alan's with Peloponnesus it might be during the Slavic migrations but I really doubt tbh.

My lineage is not pure Peloponnesian. My paternal ancestors live in Peloponnese the last 500 years so after so many generations of mixing with locals the autosomal results are typical for the region. My ydna though indicates that my lineage is from a Sarmatian-Alan tribe( according to my data it is very possibly from Roxolani, a Sarmatian tribe which was an offshoot of Alans) from Northern Balkans/Danube area.

Johnny ola
12-02-2019, 04:45 PM
My lineage is not pure Peloponnesian. My paternal ancestors live in Peloponnese the last 500 years so after so many generations of mixing with locals the autosomal results are typical for the region. My ydna though indicates that my lineage is from a Sarmatian-Alan tribe( according to my data it is very possibly from Roxolani, a Sarmatian tribe which was an offshoot of Alans) from Northern Balkans/Danube area.

That I am saying. If you have ancestor from Poli then you are not native of Peloponnesus,despite the autosomal. Anyway, if this haplo/clade is 100% Eurasian steppe that obviously explains your little east Asian genetic admixture. These tribes were steppe/east asian admixed nomads with heavily R1a lineages.

xripkan
12-02-2019, 05:11 PM
That I am saying. If you have ancestor from Poli then you are not native of Peloponnesus,despite the autosomal. Anyway, if this haplo/clade is 100% Eurasian steppe that obviously explains your little east Asian genetic admixture. These tribes were steppe/east asian admixed nomads with heavily R1a lineages.

I have doubts if this is the source of my Han. Even if my there has been left some East Eurasian at my paternal ancestors 500 years ago it would be quite low since my haplogroup indicates that my lineage is in Europe since late Antiquity. I think that after so many generations it shouldn't exist at my autosomal results. Don't you think I need a more recent ancestor to justify the East Eurasian lets say 300-400 years ago?

Johnny ola
12-02-2019, 05:14 PM
I have doubts if this is the source of my Han. Even if my there has been left some East Eurasian at my paternal ancestors 500 years ago it would be quite low since my haplogroup indicates that my lineage is in Europe since late Antiquity. I think that after so many generations it shouldn't exist at my autosomal results. Don't you think I need a more recent ancestor to justify the East Eurasian lets say 300-400 years ago?

I can say the same about my Judean/Cannanite bronze age ancestry as well. I am 30% Jewish on autosomal so I guess we should expect everything.

Archetype0ne
12-02-2019, 07:15 PM
I have doubts if this is the source of my Han. Even if my there has been left some East Eurasian at my paternal ancestors 500 years ago it would be quite low since my haplogroup indicates that my lineage is in Europe since late Antiquity. I think that after so many generations it shouldn't exist at my autosomal results. Don't you think I need a more recent ancestor to justify the East Eurasian lets say 300-400 years ago?

How much east Asian ancestry do you have?
From my G25 report I have some 1.6% which I can not explain.

Target: AC_scaled
Distance: 2.6433% / 0.02643256
51.4 Anatolia_Barcin_N
35.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
7.6 Levant_PPNB
3.6 WHG
1.6 Han <<<<<<

Johnny ola
12-02-2019, 07:53 PM
How much east Asian ancestry do you have?
From my G25 report I have some 1.6% which I can not explain.

Target: AC_scaled
Distance: 2.6433% / 0.02643256
51.4 Anatolia_Barcin_N
35.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
7.6 Levant_PPNB
3.6 WHG
1.6 Han <<<<<<



I have seen several individuals both in Gedmatch and on G25 with balkan and east european ancestry scoring some east asian.As we know from history these regions raided by eurasian nomads during middle ages.I am not avoiding the fact to left any generic impact.

Chatzianastasoglou
12-02-2019, 08:00 PM
Though it could be simply noise too?

Johnny ola
12-02-2019, 08:52 PM
Though it could be simply noise too?

I don’t think 1.5% or 2% is a noise.Personally even if it was 0,5 i would considered it good fit.Btw the Han sample is not pure east asian it has steppe admixture as well.

Archetype0ne
12-02-2019, 08:56 PM
I have seen several individuals both in Gedmatch and on G25 with balkan and east european ancestry scoring some east asian.As we know from history these regions raided by eurasian nomads during middle ages.I am not avoiding the fact to left any generic impact.

Yeah it could be. However, from what I know at least the Mongol Invasion/Raids did not affect much Albania and Greece.

https://i.imgur.com/azFq2JT.jpg

Am personally not aware of any other medieval horde raids into the Balkans, and doubt the aforementioned raids would have left a genetic imprint.


Though it could be simply noise too?

It could be noise, although I think 1.6% is quite significant in magnitude for it to be simply noise. Thing is most calculators give me no East Asian ancestry (K36, Tolan 71, FTDNA), however two G25 based calculators gave me 1.2% and 1.6% respectively.

Target: AC_scaled
Distance: 2.3967% / 0.02396666
94.0 Southern_Europe
4.8 Western_Europe
1.2 East_Asia

I wonder when and through which population I got this East Asian ancestry.

Johnny ola
12-02-2019, 09:00 PM
Yeah it could be. However, from what I know at least the Mongol Invasion/Raids did not affect much Albania and Greece.

https://i.imgur.com/azFq2JT.jpg

Am personally not aware of any other medieval horde raids into the Balkans, and doubt the aforementioned raids would have left a genetic imprint.



It could be noise, although I think 1.6% is quite significant in magnitude for it to be simply noise. Thing is most calculators give me no East Asian ancestry (K36, Tolan 71, FTDNA), however two G25 based calculators gave me 1.2% and 1.6% respectively.

Target: AC_scaled
Distance: 2.3967% / 0.02396666
94.0 Southern_Europe
4.8 Western_Europe
1.2 East_Asia

I wonder when and through which population I got this East Asian ancestry.

Albania like Greece was part of Byzantium Empire.Many soldiers were mercenaries and many tribes raid the empire.Many of them later assilimated.How you think slavs assilimated into the greek and albanian community?Its not really hard the same to be happened with people from volga region or danube.

xripkan
12-03-2019, 07:58 AM
I can say the same about my Judean/Cannanite bronze age ancestry as well. I am 30% Jewish on autosomal so I guess we should expect everything.

Genes are inherited randomly so I don't exclude the possibility without being sure that this is the source.

xripkan
12-03-2019, 08:07 AM
How much east Asian ancestry do you have?
From my G25 report I have some 1.6% which I can not explain.

Target: AC_scaled
Distance: 2.6433% / 0.02643256
51.4 Anatolia_Barcin_N
35.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
7.6 Levant_PPNB
3.6 WHG
1.6 Han <<<<<<

I score 1.4% Han at the model Davidski gave me. It makes sense to exist some traces of such an ancestry ancestry in Balkaners if we think all these Eurasian groups that invaded here.

Johnny ola
12-03-2019, 09:53 AM
Genes are inherited randomly so I don't exclude the possibility without being sure that this is the source.

As I have been told you before the only way to found more details is to test your parents or if its not possible then someone close relative. I am sure that one of your parents will score it but the other one will not. Your father might score it even higher than you do. Btw If you are really interested about your autosomal and you want to have a greater image about it, you should definetly go for 1 or 2 more kits.

xripkan
09-10-2020, 01:22 PM
I found out that a Mexican has the same haplogroup with me. His autosomal is a mix of Native American,Iberian and SSA. So evidently his yDNA comes from Iberia. He is the second Spanish under this calde. It seems R-YP4768 is related to Gothic migrations. It probably comes from a group of Sarmatians who were assimilated by Goths. Gothic migrations may be the answer how this haplogroup reached in area of Thrace and later Southern Greece.

Johnny ola
09-10-2020, 01:58 PM
I found out that a Mexican has the same haplogroup with me. His autosomal is a mix of Native American,Iberian and SSA. So evidently his yDNA comes from Iberia. He is the second Spanish under this calde. It seems R-YP4768 is related to Gothic migrations. It probably comes from a group of Sarmatians who were assimilated by Goths. Gothic migrations may be the answer how this haplogroup reached in area of Thrace and later Southern Greece.

Nice, and it probably might explain your noise East Asian I guess.

xripkan
09-10-2020, 04:05 PM
Nice, and it probably might explain your noise East Asian I guess.

My haplogroup comes very possibly from Chernyakov culture. Sarmatians when arrived from Urals had probably some East Eurasian admixture. But this admixture was diluted after the mix with Goths and Dacians. The samples we have from Chernyakov culture have low EE. So when they entered to Greco-Roman world they were already mostly Steppe people with low EE. After all these centuries they mixed with locals here I doubt if there is any East Asian left on me from these ancestors.

I find more possible that my admixture comes from assimilated Muslims who stayed in Peloponnese after the Greek Revolution. There is some evidence of East Asian admixture in some cases (less than 1%). For example Markos mom who scores some minor East Asian. One of my great-great-grandfathers was from Arkadia-Elis borders not far from the place Markos mom cames from. I have also found an Ural haplogroup in Arkadia. https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-L1442/

Johnny ola
09-10-2020, 05:45 PM
My haplogroup comes very possibly from Chernyakov culture. Sarmatians when arrived from Urals had probably some East Eurasian admixture. But this admixture was diluted after the mix with Goths and Dacians. The samples we have from Chernyakov culture have low EE. So when they entered to Greco-Roman world they were already mostly Steppe people with low EE. After all these centuries they mixed with locals here I doubt if there is any East Asian left on me from these ancestors.

I find more possible that my admixture comes from assimilated Muslims who stayed in Peloponnese after the Greek Revolution. There is some evidence of East Asian admixture in some cases (less than 1%). For example Markos mom who scores some minor East Asian. One of my great-great-grandfathers was from Arkadia-Elis borders not far from the place Markos mom cames from. I have also found an Ural haplogroup in Arkadia. https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-L1442/

I agree that your ydna Comes from Chernyakov culture but it is Hard for me to accept that Muslim Turks converted to Christianity. Looks weird!!!

xripkan
09-10-2020, 10:49 PM
I agree that your ydna Comes from Chernyakov culture but it is Hard for me to accept that Muslim Turks converted to Christianity. Looks weird!!!

Historical sources mention that groups of Seljuk Turks and other Turkic peoples, mercenaries of Byzantines during 13th century settled Peloponnese and more specifically Elis and converted to Christianity. Many of them returned to Islam when Ottomans arrived but Ottomans did not accept them. It seems that at least some of the descendants of these Turkic mercenaries were assimilated by local Christians.

Another interesting historical fact is the transfer of Quizilbash Turkmen of Eastern Anatolia to Western areas of Peloponnese during 16th century. These people were enemies of Ottoman empire and were considered heretics. They were open to other religions including Christianity. It is quite possible that some of them mixed with local Christians.

Since the East Asian admixture which has been found is very low (not more than 1-1.5%) and probably only for a (small?) part of the population the above historical facts could justify it. The settlement of Elis by Turkic mercenaries could be the answer to Markos mom East Asian admixture who comes from these places and mine as well since I have an ancestor from Gortynia near the borders with Elis.

Johnny ola
09-11-2020, 06:48 AM
Historical sources mention that groups of Seljuk Turks and other Turkic peoples, mercenaries of Byzantines during 13th century settled Peloponnese and more specifically Elis and converted to Christianity. Many of them returned to Islam when Ottomans arrived but Ottomans did not accept them. It seems that at least some of the descendants of these Turkic mercenaries were assimilated by local Christians.

Another interesting historical fact is the transfer of Quizilbash Turkmen of Eastern Anatolia to Western areas of Peloponnese during 16th century. These people were enemies of Ottoman empire and were considered heretics. They were open to other religions including Christianity. It is quite possible that some of them mixed with local Christians.

Since the East Asian admixture which has been found is very low (not more than 1-1.5%) and probably only for a (small?) part of the population the above historical facts could justify it. The settlement of Elis by Turkic mercenaries could be the answer to Markos mom East Asian admixture who comes from these places and mine as well since I have an ancestor from Gortynia near the borders with Elis.

I think Your east Asian is coming from a female ancestor but anyway. You could test someone from Your close relatives to have a better Look thought.

xripkan
09-11-2020, 11:12 AM
I think Your east Asian is coming from a female ancestor but anyway. You could test someone from Your close relatives to have a better Look thought.

Maybe but it can't be form my pure maternal line since my mtDNA has nothing to do with East Asia. Unfortunately my close relatives don't care about genetics. Maybe I convince in the future my aunt (my father's sister).

Johnny ola
09-11-2020, 12:40 PM
Maybe but it can't be form my pure maternal line since my mtDNA has nothing to do with East Asia. Unfortunately my close relatives don't care about genetics. Maybe I convince in the future my aunt (my father's sister).

Well it might have a relation with Byzantine Empire. Many emperors used to have mercenaries even from Turk-Ozghun etc.

vhmetov
06-27-2021, 08:01 AM
Hello. Recently i tested 10 person in Yseq (alpha). Here is an example of interpretation https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pIOKy73jOG_zFkv_67ZBqBFseKEJIeZviaq6Ez5sDn4/edit?usp=sharing