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rms2
12-27-2019, 07:24 PM
If you are a male, of course, you have your own y chromosome, which you inherited from your father, who inherited it from his father, and so on. You probably already know a lot about that y-dna haplogroup. But how much do you know about the y-dna haplogroups of your other male ancestors, the ones not in your y-chromosome line?

Here are the y-dna haplogroups in my own pedigree that I know about, starting with my own y-dna haplogroup. Thus far, I only know about six of them, but I hope to find out about many more.

1. Stevens R1b-FGC36981 Phylogeny:
M207>M173>M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310>
L151>P312>Z290>L21>DF13>Z39589>DF41>FGC5572>BY168>BY166>FGC36974>
FGC36982>FGC36981

2. Gist R1b-DF83 Phylogeny:
M207>M173>M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310>
L151>P312>ZZ11_1>DF27>ZZ12>Z2559>FGC49020>DF83

3. Holmes E-V13 Phylogeny:
M96>P147>L499>P2>M215>L796>M35>V68>M78>CTS4231>
L618>V13

4. Washburn I-BY40607 Phylogeny:
M170>M253>DF29>S243>BY151>L849>S2078>S2077>Y6375>Y6384.1>Y13945>BY40787>BY40607

5. Stutz/Stutts I-M170 Phylogeny:
M170> Need further downstream test results

6. Stovall R1b-L270 Phylogeny:
M207>M173>M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310>
L151>P312>Z290>L21>DF13>FGC11134>A353>Z16250>A114>
CTS4466>S1115>FGC84010>A541>S1121>L270

J Man
12-27-2019, 07:28 PM
De Vuono (paternal line): J2a

Montgomery: J2a

Talonen: N1c

Wright: R1b

Vigna: R1b

Trivers/Travers: I1

Dewsloth
12-27-2019, 07:30 PM
In my sig line :)

Deftextra
12-27-2019, 07:40 PM
My mothers mothers father carried r1a1a. The rest that I know of is bellow my profile pic.

rms2
12-27-2019, 08:02 PM
If my matches at 23andMe were a little more forthcoming about what they make public, I would know more of the y-dna haplogroups in my pedigree. The privacy mania drives me batty.

If you're going to go all private, then eff off and don't test your dna.

linthos
12-27-2019, 09:31 PM
There's some difficulty getting this for some of my closer relatives, such as my maternal grandfather, but I have gotten some of the info from a few of my Acadian lines on my mother's side. They include E-V13, R-L21, and C-P39.

JonikW
12-27-2019, 10:04 PM
I'm heartened to see what you guys have learned because I've got nowhere but still have hope. I have many autosomal matches on a couple of lines but am reluctant to ask them for their raw data in these privacy obsessed times. I even felt bad asking my late mother's cousin for his raw MyHeritage file and later a swab for YSEQ so I could pin down my late grandfather's Y. I guess that's because most people know so little about this DNA business that it feels like asking for their fingerprints or bank details.

Dewsloth
12-27-2019, 10:13 PM
The results I have for distant ancestors are largely from researching my colonial arrivals in the FTDNA groups. They tended to have large families with A fair amount of survivors. A decent number of them have direct male (or female) descent from those times with members reporting.

rms2
12-27-2019, 10:19 PM
I'm heartened to see what you guys have learned because I've got nowhere but still have hope. I have many autosomal matches on a couple of lines but am reluctant to ask them for their raw data in these privacy obsessed times. I even felt bad asking my late mother's cousin for his raw MyHeritage file and later a swab for YSEQ so I could pin down my late grandfather's Y. I guess that's because most people know so little about this DNA business that it feels like asking for their fingerprints or bank details.

I know what you mean, but go ahead and ask. Couldn’t hurt.

One of my ancestors was Ulrich Stutz, born in Switzerland in the 1600s. I have a bunch of matches on that line at Ancestry DNA. One of them, Jack Stutts, is super friendly and open, but he can only get as far as I-M170, because he did the old Genographic test. I have another male Stutts match at 23andMe, a much younger guy, but he doesn’t answer my messages and hasn’t accepted my connection request. I’m pretty sure his 23andMe y-dna haplogroup is further along than M170, but he’s keeping it to himself.

Webb
12-27-2019, 11:06 PM
35643

My great great grandpappy Jesse William Bryant. L21>DF13>Z253.

Webb
12-28-2019, 01:00 AM
John Nickell, born 1720 in Tyrone, Ireland and died 1774 in Staunton, Virginia. I-M223>FGC15106.

sheepslayer
12-30-2019, 07:41 PM
I still keep a spreadsheet of all the lines in my Ancestry tree, a good half of them I have Y data for. I made kind of a science out of trawling FTDNA projects :)

The ones I know I'm kin to for sure are as follows:

E1b-M35 > L539 > BY5022
I2a-M436 > M223 > CTS616 > CTS10057 > Z170 > CTS1977 > Y8935
I2a-M436 > M223 > CTS616 > CTS10057 > Z170 > CTS6433 > Y18109
I2a-P37 > CTS595 > S21825 > Y94204
J2a-PF5119 > L558 > Z1847 > Z7671 > BY159622 > BY226242
J2a-PF5119 > Z6065 > Y27235 > BY32938
R1a-Z282 > PF6155 > YP263
R1b-P297 > M269 > L51 > L151 > P312 > DF19 > Y6237 > Z41627
R1b-P297 > M269 > L51 > L151 > P312 > S461 > DF13 > L1335 > S691
R1b-P297 > M269 > L51 > L151 > P312 > S461 > DF13 > Z251 > Y5833
R1b-P297 > M269 > L51 > L151 > P312 > S461 > DF13 > Z253 > Z2186
R1b-P297 > M269 > L51 > L151 > U106 > S263 > S499 > L48 > Y37962 > Y10968
R1b-P297 > M269 > L51 > Z2118 > FGC24138
T1a-BY31173

Made a thread about it few months ago, https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18233-Picking-projects

RobertCasey
12-30-2019, 08:29 PM
Here is my Casey YDNA line from a top down point of view:

1) R-M269 (spread throughout Europe)
2) R-L21 (primarily western Europe)
3) R-Z253 (primarily northern and northwestern Europe)
4) R-BY25450 (western Celtic tribes) - 1500 BC
Only around 14 testers between BY25450 and L226
(half are western Celtic (no Irish) and one branch Kelly (Irish))
5) R-L226 - 500 AD (95 % Irish - 5 % mainly recent movement out)
6) R-FGC5647 - 1000 AD - the beginning my Casey surname cluster
(one Kersey in England plus one Casey and one Benton in Pasquotank County, North Carolina)
7) R-FGC5639 - 1750s AD - arrived in western South Carolina
(by 1800 - 50 males with the Casey surname)
8) 460 (12>13) - YSTR branch that divides the South Carolina
Casey lines into two branches (around ten testers in each branch)

rms2
12-30-2019, 09:52 PM
I still keep a spreadsheet of all the lines in my Ancestry tree, a good half of them I have Y data for. I made kind of a science out of trawling FTDNA projects :)

The ones I know I'm kin to for sure are as follows:


Made a thread about it few months ago, https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18233-Picking-projects

No offense, but your method seems a little loose to me, which explains how you get so many results.

I find out if an autosomal match shares a common ancestor with me and then if that match or a close male relative has y-dna test results and a known y haplogroup. Then I can be reasonably sure that’s the y haplogroup of the common male ancestor we share. Most of my autosomal matches don’t have y-dna results, and our shared ancestors aren’t represented in FTDNA projects, not clearly and unambiguously anyway.

Just my opinion, but I think you’re picking up a lot of lines that probably aren’t yours.

sheepslayer
12-30-2019, 10:34 PM
No offense, but your method seems a little loose to me, which explains how you get so many results.

I find out if an autosomal match shares a common ancestor with me and then if that match or a close male relative has y-dna test results and a known y haplogroup. Then I can be reasonably sure that’s the y haplogroup of the common male ancestor we share. Most of my autosomal matches don’t have y-dna results, and our shared ancestors aren’t represented in FTDNA projects, not clearly and unambiguously anyway.

Just my opinion, but I think you’re picking up a lot of lines that probably aren’t yours.

You're very right! I actually spent the past few months procedurally verifying which ancestors are actually in my tree and which ones I had to dig thru member trees for, and now each row of my new spreadsheet has a "dubious" or "confirmed" status...

As you can imagine, the vast majority fall under "dubious." :) But there are in fact lines I can verify from a purely genealogical basis (the tree I use is strictly based on records). Use of Ancestry member trees is what constitutes a "dubious" link. Gedmatch would help but I'm not sure how I would integrate that with my current system.

To me this is more of an expedition into the rest of the haplotree. I got bored with my cryptic J branch and now I know all kinds of stuff about the Corded Ware and WHG's that I had no clue about before. Besides, as long as these kits have a reasonable chance of being my kin, I'm happy. It's cool to get at least a rough idea of how the haplotree applies to me any my family.

I'll keep the autosomal thing in mind, though. Messing with admixture is about as far as I've ventured down the Gedmatch rabbit hole, so I guess I have my work cut out for me :)

Osiris
12-30-2019, 10:50 PM
I also keep them in my signature. Most of the ones with SNPs on into recent times I've paid for myself. Lots of gaps though. It amazes me that I have a few large families but without a single male line descendant has tested his Y yet.

Oh, and I also follow my step father who's not included in that list at this time. He's R-JFS0359 and is another Big Y I purchased.

rms2
12-30-2019, 11:25 PM
Yeah, the way I make sure of the y-dna lines I claim is by getting hold of a cousin (however distant) who is also an autosomal dna match and finding out what his y-dna results are, if he has them. If the autosomal match is a female, I try to find out if she has a close male relative who has y-dna test results.

Right now I'm trying to run down the y-dna haplogroup of the Stewart line that is mine via a second great grandmother on my mom's side, Orpha Stewart, b. 1842 in McKenzie, Carroll County, Tennessee. Looks like it's R1b-L746, but I want to be sure. I need some Stewart autosomal matches at Ancestry and/or 23andMe to answer my messages.

I have a pretty good male Stewart match at 23andMe whose y haplogroup is listed as R-S775, which is just one step upstream of L746. I'm pretty sure that means he is L746 but that S775 is as far as 23andMe goes. This match is from Oklahoma, but his dad is from Tennessee, which is where my Stewarts come from (and where I came from originally). Unfortunately he hasn't answered my message and my connection request yet. I also have a bunch of Stewart matches at Ancestry, one of whom I already know is R1b-L746. I just need at least one of them to answer my messages.

msmarjoribanks
12-31-2019, 12:28 AM
I'm heartened to see what you guys have learned because I've got nowhere but still have hope. I have many autosomal matches on a couple of lines but am reluctant to ask them for their raw data in these privacy obsessed times. I even felt bad asking my late mother's cousin for his raw MyHeritage file and later a swab for YSEQ so I could pin down my late grandfather's Y. I guess that's because most people know so little about this DNA business that it feels like asking for their fingerprints or bank details.

I know what you mean. I asked one and got "oh, I'm new to DNA testing" (true, he just did Ancestry recently), "what's Y-DNA and what's the benefit?" I explained as best I could, and hinted I would be open to contributing to the cost if he shared the results, but no answer. I am in touch with another Ancestry match who is the sister and aunt of people with the name I am interested in (definitely related on that line to my g-grandfather), but have yet to get up the nerve to ask, since she'd have to ask relatives who aren't already on a DNA site. A third one, that I am less interested in but there's a project, so that could be helpful, was briefly interested in exchanging notes about family history work (he's on Ancestry but has not tested DNA), but has since dropped off, before I asked him to test. I should nudge him again.

Of those I know something about, in abbreviated form:

Jones (my dad) -- R1b>L21>DF63>BY592>A7810>BY20328>BY74484

Guess -- R-M269 -- my cousin, and sigh, typical FTDNA M269 result, so I need to get him to test further (this did solve one mystery, though)

Westerlin -- R1b>U106>Z19 (23andMe, and I know how we are related, but I'm not as interested in this one since I know where the family is from and it was a patronymic until quite late)

Bristol -- R1b>L21>DF13>R-Z2186 (also 23andMe, known relationship; I'm quite interested in this line and wish there was a project)

JoeyP37
12-31-2019, 12:55 AM
Oh, Lord, no, but I would like to. I know two great-grandmothers' (theoretical) y haplogroups; for great-grandmother Gulley, it is R1b-L51 (cousin tested on V3 chip, pah!) and my mitochondrial (female-line) great-grandmother was R1b-L21 (if you went back to the year 1500 and canvassed all of my male ancestors, the relative majority would be L21); her mother was the daughter of a Tipperary Ryan and was probably R1b-DF27 (the Tipperary Ryan cluster), again, another mitochondrial ancestress!

ADW_1981
12-31-2019, 01:00 AM
If you are a male, of course, you have your own y chromosome, which you inherited from your father, who inherited it from his father, and so on. You probably already know a lot about that y-dna haplogroup. But how much do you know about the y-dna haplogroups of your other male ancestors, the ones not in your y-chromosome line?

Here are the y-dna haplogroups in my own pedigree that I know about, starting with my own y-dna haplogroup. Thus far, I only know about six of them, but I hope to find out about many more.

1. Stevens R1b-FGC36981 Phylogeny:
M207>M173>M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310>
L151>P312>Z290>L21>DF13>Z39589>DF41>FGC5572>BY168>BY166>FGC36974>
FGC36982>FGC36981

2. Gist R1b-DF83 Phylogeny:
M207>M173>M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310>
L151>P312>ZZ11_1>DF27>ZZ12>Z2559>FGC49020>DF83

3. Holmes E-V13 Phylogeny:
M96>P147>L499>P2>M215>L796>M35>V68>M78>CTS4231>
L618>V13

4. Washburn I-BY40607 Phylogeny:
M170>M253>DF29>S243>BY151>L849>S2078>S2077>Y6375>Y6384.1>Y13945>BY40787>BY40607

5. Stutz/Stutts I-M170 Phylogeny:
M170> Need further downstream test results

6. Stovall R1b-L270 Phylogeny:
M207>M173>M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310>
L151>P312>Z290>L21>DF13>FGC11134>A353>Z16250>A114>
CTS4466>S1115>FGC84010>A541>S1121>L270

I don't have any non-R1b that I am aware of. The funny thing is some other family names (Holman, Day) have been popping up in the DF27 project who match the Z209 modal. Highly doubtful the latter would be my relative due to the frequency of the surname though, but it's possible.

Edward J
12-31-2019, 03:05 PM
My closest known ones:
R1a-Y2613 - Slovenia
C-Y11990 or R1b-U106-A8551 - Germany (Haven't been able to verify which line)
E-V13 - Italy

Dewsloth
12-31-2019, 04:44 PM
No offense, but your method seems a little loose to me, which explains how you get so many results.

I find out if an autosomal match shares a common ancestor with me and then if that match or a close male relative has y-dna test results and a known y haplogroup. Then I can be reasonably sure that’s the y haplogroup of the common male ancestor we share. Most of my autosomal matches don’t have y-dna results, and our shared ancestors aren’t represented in FTDNA projects, not clearly and unambiguously anyway.

Just my opinion, but I think you’re picking up a lot of lines that probably aren’t yours.

They used to be easier to find with FTDNA's old search function. I guess they got scared off of allowing it for privacy reasons. I had a couple more besides the ones in my sig line, but I hit the character limit for the sig, and didn't add them. Now I don't know if I still have the YDNA info somewhere.

Dewsloth
12-31-2019, 06:31 PM
Small ironic note:
I don't have any idea about anyone's Y-DNA on the Lebanese half of my tree.
And while I can tell pretty clearly what they were autosomally, looking at my mom's results, I don't have any idea who any of them were before 1850 or so.

Grossvater
12-31-2019, 11:03 PM
I have four wildly diverse family haplogroups that I'm particularly interested in.

1. My own R1b-U152-Z36-A7992 that I've passed on to my son and one of my grandsons. Helvetian?
2. My mother's father's R1b-L21
3. My wife's grandfather's Native American Q-M902
4. My son-in-law's West African E-M2 passed on to two of my grandsons.

rms2
01-02-2020, 06:16 PM
They used to be easier to find with FTDNA's old search function. I guess they got scared off of allowing it for privacy reasons. I had a couple more besides the ones in my sig line, but I hit the character limit for the sig, and didn't add them. Now I don't know if I still have the YDNA info somewhere.

Ysearch used to be a big help, too, but of course those old days - and Ysearch itself - are gone.

alchemist223
01-02-2020, 11:02 PM
accidental duplicate

alchemist223
01-02-2020, 11:04 PM
Unfortunately, quite little. I tested at AncestryDNA , not 23&me, so this explains much of it. The only one I know is my paternal great-grandmother's father's line (an undetermined branch of R-U106), who carried the surname of Bouchard. I'm particularly interested in the lines of my mother's side (Calabria, Italy), as that area is extremely undertested. Unfortunately, attempting to contact matches on AncestryDNA has been unsuccessful.

JonikW
01-02-2020, 11:30 PM
Ysearch used to be a big help, too, but of course those old days - and Ysearch itself - are gone.

I'm glad I took a few screen grabs from that site. We need more resources like that, but the new era of personal data fears doesn't bode well unfortunately.

rms2
01-03-2020, 01:22 PM
I don't have any non-R1b that I am aware of. The funny thing is some other family names (Holman, Day) have been popping up in the DF27 project who match the Z209 modal. Highly doubtful the latter would be my relative due to the frequency of the surname though, but it's possible.

Of course, you're bound to have plenty of non-R1b y-dna haplogroups in your pedigree. As you said, you just don't know of any non-R1b haplogroups yet. They're there, waiting to be discovered.

rms2
01-03-2020, 02:57 PM
In this y-dna connection Ancestry is really frustrating, since it doesn't test for y-dna anymore. If it would just go at least as far as 23andMe does, that would be a big plus.

Another limiting factor is the apparent preponderance of women in genealogy. I'm glad for their interest and enthusiasm - and they are behind many a male's y-dna test - but, from the y-dna point of view, I wish more guys would get into it. It's kind of frustrating when checking ThruLines at Ancestry, hunting for a y-chromosome line connection, to see female after female after female.

ADW_1981
01-03-2020, 03:18 PM
Of course, you're bound to have plenty of non-R1b y-dna haplogroups in your pedigree. As you said, you just don't know of any non-R1b haplogroups yet. They're there, waiting to be discovered.

On that note, my cousin at 23andMe who carries my maternal surname finally convinced her brother to get tested. The other half of my Y pedigree will finally be revealed, it's a great gift for new years. I had previously deduced this line was I1, but it was using some conjecture of a close, mysterious, unresponsive 2nd cousin on my mother's side who carried a different surname who I thought was either an NPE or using a pseudonym. At this point, I don't really know since I have been wrong in the past.

rms2
01-03-2020, 03:20 PM
On that note, my cousin at 23andMe who carries my maternal surname finally convinced her brother to get tested. The other half of my Y pedigree will finally be revealed, it's a great gift for new years. I had previously deduced this line was I1, but it was using some conjecture of a close, mysterious, unresponsive 2nd cousin on my mother's side who carried a different surname who I thought was either an NPE or using a pseudonym. At this point, I don't really know since I have been wrong in the past.

Is he doing a y-dna test with FTDNA or is he testing with 23andMe?

vettor
01-03-2020, 03:21 PM
In this y-dna connection Ancestry is really frustrating, since it doesn't test for y-dna anymore. If it would just go at least as far as 23andMe does, that would be a big plus.

Another limiting factor is the apparent preponderance of women in genealogy. I'm glad for their interest and enthusiasm - and they are behind many a male's y-dna test - but, from the y-dna point of view, I wish more guys would get into it. It's kind of frustrating when checking ThruLines at Ancestry, hunting for a y-chromosome line connection, to see female after female after female.

these days , one needs more than 1 company to check their line

I use
Myheritage
Ftdna
23andme
geneanet

given up on ancestry, DnaLand and another

I am just starting to look at myheritage auto-clusters ..............I see some interesting groups with people I already have confirmed matches

but yes, Ysearch was very good ..............it currently gave me the initial step to a current new path with Yfull

I also miss greatly, Semargyl

ADW_1981
01-03-2020, 03:23 PM
Is he doing a y-dna test with FTDNA or is he testing with 23andMe?

Just 23andMe, so I probably won't get anything deep, but it's better than nothing.

rms2
01-03-2020, 03:33 PM
Just 23andMe, so I probably won't get anything deep, but it's better than nothing.

It's not bad. Keep us posted.

rms2
01-03-2020, 03:38 PM
these days , one needs more than 1 company to check their line

I use
Myheritage
Ftdna
23andme
geneanet

given up on ancestry, DnaLand and another

I am just starting to look at myheritage auto-clusters ..............I see some interesting groups with people I already have confirmed matches

but yes, Ysearch was very good ..............it currently gave me the initial step to a current new path with Yfull

I also miss greatly, Semargyl

I don't get much out of MyHeritage, since they want money to allow me to add more ancestors to my tree there.

I can't complain too much about Ancestry, since the match that led to a major miracle on my y-chromosome line began there.

I'm a big fan of FTDNA, but am I the only one who finds the working of its Family Finder, especially the family trees, inconsistent and painfully slow? Sometimes it just doesn't work for me at all, but maybe it's my old computer.

JMcB
01-03-2020, 04:13 PM
I don't get much out of MyHeritage, since they want money to allow me to add more ancestors to my tree there.

I can't complain too much about Ancestry, since the match that led to a major miracle on my y-chromosome line began there.

I'm a big fan of FTDNA, but am I the only one who finds the working of its Family Finder, especially the family trees, inconsistent and painfully slow? Sometimes it just doesn't work for me at all, but maybe it's my old computer.


Coincidentally, I did MH’s free upload about a year ago and then recently decided to upload my family tree onto their site. Unfortunately, I didn't know they limited how many people you can have on it. Until they started sending me emails saying I was over the limit and should upgrade. Which I’m not planning on doing. I’m not sure what they’re going to do with my tree. So I’ll wait and see. As for Ancestry, personally I’ve learned more interesting genealogical information from them, than I have from anyone else. While I find Family Tree to be an irritating company at times, their YDNA tests have given me some very important information. Although, to get the most out of it, I’ve usually had to use other sources. I rarely use their FF except to double check matches I’ve found on Ancestry and their Tree format is really one of the worst ones out there.

Dewsloth
01-03-2020, 04:26 PM
I just put my dad and myself on MH, and there are clearly German relatives that were not on FTDNA or Ancestry (and some that were).
I haven't tried to put a tree there, and am still on the "free" account, but I'm tempted to try -- maybe I'll finally find a living family on my Y-line that isn't from my grandfather's mother's (Franconian/Ashkenazi/Belgian) branch side.

rms2
01-03-2020, 04:33 PM
Coincidentally, I did MH’s free upload about a year ago and then recently decided to upload my family tree onto their site. Unfortunately, I didn't know they limited how many people you can have on it. Until they started sending me emails saying I was over the limit and should upgrade. Which I’m not planning on doing. I’m not sure what they’re going to do with my tree. So I’ll wait and see. As for Ancestry, personally I’ve learned more interesting genealogical information from them, than I have from anyone else. While I find Family Tree to be an irritating company at times, their YDNA tests have given me some very important information. Although, to get the most out of it, I’ve usually had to use other sources. I rarely use their FF except to double check matches I’ve found on Ancestry and their Tree format is really one of the worst ones out there.

Yeah, I really hate to criticize FTDNA because Bennett Greenspan is such a great guy, and I've gotten so much from FTDNA's y-dna tests, but their Family Finder IT stuff is just the worst. It's really hard to use. I surrender and give up more often than not when I am trying to investigate something there. Ancestry's and 23andMe's web sites function much better and are far easier to use.

vettor
01-03-2020, 05:51 PM
I don't get much out of MyHeritage, since they want money to allow me to add more ancestors to my tree there.

I can't complain too much about Ancestry, since the match that led to a major miracle on my y-chromosome line began there.

I'm a big fan of FTDNA, but am I the only one who finds the working of its Family Finder, especially the family trees, inconsistent and painfully slow? Sometimes it just doesn't work for me at all, but maybe it's my old computer.

found Ancestry to cumbersome, I still have an account there.....only because of my cousin

myheritage limit of accuracy is to dna matches which states 3rd cousin confidence...............i have 15 , which is 100%

and 1 x 4th cousin confidence

Geneanet is free even if you have 30000 in your tree...........it does cater for western europeans mostly............but it is only a family tree site

Familysearch is good, but not great

LivingDNA, is awful, horrible....never helpful ............maybe one of the worst for me

rms2
01-03-2020, 11:33 PM
For me Ancestry's web site works very well, aside from occasional glitches. My big complaint about Ancestry is that they don't even do as much as 23andMe does with y-dna and mtDNA. If they did, their huge database would be way more valuable, at least from my point of view.

23andMe is really good and works well. They just need a bigger database, and, of course, there's the problem of frickin' privacy mania, which causes guys to let themselves show up as matches without revealing their y-dna haplogroups.

And then there are all the people who never answer messages. Probably some of them are dead. That's a reasonable excuse. Otherwise, it's just really irritating.

Dewsloth
01-04-2020, 12:01 AM
For me Ancestry's web site works very well, aside from occasional glitches. My big complaint about Ancestry is that they don't even do as much as 23andMe does with y-dna and mtDNA. If they did, their huge database would be way more valuable, at least from my point of view.

23andMe is really good and works well. They just need a bigger database, and, of course, there's the problem of frickin' privacy mania, which causes guys to let themselves show up as matches without revealing their y-dna haplogroups.

And then there are all the people who never answer messages. Probably some of them are dead. That's a reasonable excuse. Otherwise, it's just really irritating.

Also: If only Ancestry had FTDNA's chromosome browser...

Artmar
01-07-2020, 11:58 AM
So far what's in the signature, aside a father of my fiancee (she will become my wife this year) who belongs the similar clade like user Michał - predicted R1a-FGC19283.

I will probably get another ancestral line this year though, depends on how convincing I will turn be and an oppenness of a cousin of my maternal great-grandmother. He knew me since I was a kid though but we weren't in contact for more than 15 years until a week ago.

FionnSneachta
01-16-2020, 06:58 PM
My dad's:
R-P312/S116 > Z290 > L21/S145 > DF13 > Z39589 > DF49/S474 > Z2980 > Z2976 > DF23 > Z2961 > FGC6540 > FGC6562 > FGC70067 > FGC6545 > BY3442 > BY3437 > BY3439 > BY3440 > Y160102 > FT122506

I know two other lines since I did the DNA test with 23andMe. One of my 2x great grandfathers would have been as follows:
R-P312/S116 > Z290 > L21/S145 > DF13 > Z39589 > DF49/S474 > Z2980 > Z2976 > DF23 > Z2961 > Z2956 > M222 > Z46375 > DF106 > DF104 > DF109

A 3x great grandfather would have been:
R-P312/S116 > Z290 > L21/S145 > DF13 > L513/S215/DF1 > Z23534
I notice that someone with this surname and positive for this SNP has already done the Big Y and uploaded to the Big Tree.

hartaisarlag
01-16-2020, 07:15 PM
Besides my direct paternal line (E-L791 > E-Y6923 > E-Z36123*), I can infer a few to the subclade level with pretty high confidence.

My paternal grandfather's paternal grandmother's father (my 3x great-grandfather), if identified correctly (this is one line where I don't have the benefit of a paper trail), was J1-L816, and by implication, almost certainly J1-ZS2728.

My father's maternal grandfather (my 1x great-grandfather) was R1a—given that he was Ashkenazi, 91% chance that this R1a is R1a-Y2619; 94% chance that it's some form of R1a-Z93.

On that same branch, the R1a great-grandfather's mother's maternal grandfather (my 4x great-grandfather) was Q-M242; 100% of Ashkenazi Q is Q-Y2200.

My maternal grandfather was an Ashkenazi Levite, so sans DNA testing, there's a 2/3 chance that he was R1a-Y2619.

My maternal grandmother's paternal grandmother's father (my 3x-great-grandfather) was J2b-L283, which is almost certainly either J2b-Y33795 or J2b-Z39653.

My maternal grandmother's maternal grandfather (my 2x-great-grandfather) was a kohen, which gives him about a 40-50% of being J-Z18271, most of that probability more specifically belonging to J-S12192.

ADW_1981
01-27-2020, 02:43 AM
So I have found the first non-R1b male line in my pedigree and it goes back to the early 1800's in UK. I need to reach out to them but it ties into my mother's family history and they are definitely non-local to not just NW Europe, but Europe entirely, they Y-chr tells me as much. Will update as I find out more information. Unfortunately, still waiting on my mother's Yline

ADW_1981
02-09-2020, 02:03 AM
I also made a mistake on the haplogroup of one of my assumed lines based on that individuals location in England and the shared surname (Gould), despite it being a very small matching segment. It is actually R-Z17901 based on a closer cousin carrying the surname with triangulated matching. I believe Z17901 is under L21-DF13, which I don't know much about, but it seems like a very British Isles specific lineage, so I'm skeptical it would be Anglo-Saxon despite the assumed surname. I could be wrong though

rms2
02-12-2020, 12:56 AM
Found out about another one today. One of my second great grandmothers is Sarah Lucinda English, born about 1830, the daughter of John Wilson English and his wife Sarah Kimbrell. Got a match at 23andMe to a man with the surname English who is related to me on that line. He is I-M253, and that is as detailed as 23andMe gets regarding his y-dna haplogroup. This gentleman and I have exchanged messages via 23andMe and confirmed the relationship. I have a number of matches at Ancestry on the same line.

So that's the second I-M253 line I know about, but there may be a third, because all I know about my Stutz line is the it is I-M170. That's an old Geno Project result. I don't know what subclade of I-M170 the Stutz men belong to. It might be I-M253, but then again it might not.

RobertCasey
02-12-2020, 05:17 PM
I started out with YDNA testing to attempt to "break through" my brick wall for my Casey line from South Carolina. With 26 testers at Y67 or more that belong to this surname cluster, we have made pretty good progress but the pace of discovery is very slow. But there was great interest in YSTR signature associated with the Dal gCais tribe of Ireland but in 2010, R-L226 was revealed via the "Walk the Y" and became the fifth YSNP branch under R-L21 which is the largest major haplogroup under haplogroup R. This was a very exciting discovery for our Irish haplogroup and dozens of people confirmed their haplogroup by individual testing at FTDNA.

But "Walk the Y" with only 600K to 800K base pairs was a very slow and very expensive process. I was actually able to keep up all of R-L21 by analyzing every new YSNP discovered by Walk the Y - until Big Y was delivered. But I was very excited about the potential of YSNP testing that I was first NGS test for R-L226 with the Full Genomes YElite1.0 test. I had 55 private YSNPs for two years and individual testing at YSEQ did not discover any new YSNP branches. But at $1,300 per YElite test, there were no takers for a second YElite test at that cost. But with the $900 Big Y test, we slowly started discovering new branches under L226 (which is around 1500 years old). But at this pace, I was able to keep up with L226 YSNP discovery along with the fine work of Dennis Wright. But until the price fell below $500 (upgrade price), there was just not enough data to gain insight on how the 200 or 300 testers were related to each other except for some obvious exceptions in parts of the L226 haplotree. But when the percentage of Big Y to Y67 testers reached around 20 %, things radically improved.

Progress was so slow on my surname cluster, I decided to concentrate on R-L226 instead and became an active admin to assist Dennis Wright. I am very spoiled as Dennis Wright handles the Big Y analysis and I work primarily on the chart that shows how over 90 % of testers are related to each other. Manually charting is very labor intensive. I also track all the YSNP testing from other sources - Z253 and then L226 SNP packs and individual YSNP testing at YSEQ testing. I now also track Y500 and Y700 YSTR (over 250 Big Y tests now - over half are now Y700). During my L21 analysis days, I created the first YSNP prediction tool (for L21) and soon discovered that YSNP prediction (via YSTR signatures) also works very well under haplogroups that are both predictable and chartable. It takes around 20 % of testers being Big Y to make charting feasible with reasonable accuracy. It only takes a few testers for reasonable accuracy for YSNP prediction. I have also randomly analyzed around 20 other haplogrouop R haplogroups and I able to predict with 99 % accuracy (similar methodology to NEVGEN) and used SAPP (I just do not have the time to do this analysis manually). I believe that 80 to 90 % of haplogroup R can now be predicted and 50 to 60 % can be charted as well. My latest version of EXCEL has formulas that automates: 1) YSTR signature recognition; 2) YSNP prediction model (empirically); 3) formula for signature matches; 4) formulas for genetic distance from the signature; 5) who is positive for the haplogroup (requires maintaining a table of relevant branches and branch equivalents). I have also created a new TMRCA methodology under predictable haplogroups (it involves using surname clusters - now 26 surname clusters under L226). For YSNP branches between L226 and the surname clusters, this methodology is very accurate. I just the average (now down to 70 years per YSNP mutation) for those YSNP branches with no surname clusters and below surname clusters.

So, I really understand my haplogroup, R-L226, extremely well. And others could use these techniques for their predictable haplogroups. But there are just too few admins that maintain charts and too few people that are creating new haplogroup projects for smaller predictable haplogroups. Here is a page of the lowest part of our largest O'Brien surname (just short of 100 Y67 or higher testers):

http://www.rcasey.net/DNA/R_L226/Haplotrees/L226_Home.pdf#Page=8

Here is a copy of latest source file for R-L226 (this includes extensive formulas to automate maintenance of this summary):

http://www.rcasey.net/DNA/R_L226/Haplotrees/L226_Signatures.xlsx

I am very excited about the potential of Y500/Y700 YSTRs. These represent over 50 % of YSTR mutations - Y111 is the other 50 %. But unlike Y67 and Y111, we have a sample size issues before the Y500/Y700 markers become a major player. Currently, these new YSTRs are a very good indicator of how closely related people really are. The average increase of Y500/Y500 mutations is just over 100 % more mutations - but the average is very misleading as the variation between Y111 mutations and Y500/Y700 varies between 50 % and 200 %. If mutations only goes up 50 %, you are more closely related than you think at Y111. If you are 200 %, you are much more distantly related than Y111 implies. I am surprised that the no calls does not seem to be a major accuracy issue. But when charting a lot of no calls are obviously mutations based on closer matches (this make analysis more time consuming). Here is my Y500/Y700 summary of the 250 L226 testers that can be emulated by others:

http://www.rcasey.net/DNA/R_L226/Haplotrees/L226_Y500.xlsx

I encourage others to expand their scope to the haplogroup level (and even create new younger haplogroup projects). Most predictable haplogroups are only 25 to 50 testers, so this is many times just a 25 to 50 % increase in scope. I have around a dozen presentations on You Tube (just search Genetic Genealogy Robert Casey).

spruithean
02-13-2020, 01:15 AM
I know of a view lines in my family tree, they are R-M222 from Ireland (a Hiberno-Norman surname, but the timing in the research fits with a visitor from outside of Munster), R-L21 from Ireland, I-M223 from Co. Donegal/Derry, R-U106/R-U198 from the Netherlands, I think there are others, but I can't think of them right now. Interestingly enough, so far only two I-M170 haplogroups in my tree that I know of right now, my own, and the I-M223 line.

RobertCasey
02-13-2020, 03:24 AM
The four haplogroups that are dominated by Irish surnames are all L21 branches (these were originally
known as Irish Type 1 to 4):

R-M222 - 2,718 members - O'Neil royal line
R-CTS4466 - 1,006 members
R-L226 - 722 members - O'Brien royal line
R-L1066 - 192 members (probably twice as large)

rms2
02-15-2020, 08:27 PM
Found out about another one today. One of my second great grandmothers is Sarah Lucinda English, born about 1830, the daughter of John Wilson English and his wife Sarah Kimbrell. Got a match at 23andMe to a man with the surname English who is related to me on that line. He is I-M253, and that is as detailed as 23andMe gets regarding his y-dna haplogroup. This gentleman and I have exchanged messages via 23andMe and confirmed the relationship. I have a number of matches at Ancestry on the same line.

So that's the second I-M253 line I know about, but there may be a third, because all I know about my Stutz line is the it is I-M170. That's an old Geno Project result. I don't know what subclade of I-M170 the Stutz men belong to. It might be I-M253, but then again it might not.

This man is my third cousin once removed, btw. His second great grandfather is my third great grandfather.

He has given me a lot of info on his English line (English is the surname).

BMG
02-22-2020, 02:19 PM
My direct Y line is R-Y7 which is one of the common R1a subclade in South Asia . My direct great great grandfather come from a place in Kerala called Chengannur .

My maternal grandfather's y line is L-M357 . My great grandfather in that line is from Ranni ,Kerala . Before that they appear to have come from a place near to Kollam as per family stories.

Both of the lines are Kerala Syrian Christian of Jacobite group ( Kerala Syrian Christians was divided into Catholic group and Jacobite group in 17th century with allegiance to Rome and Antioch respectively. ) . Both of the sides later became members of Marthoma Church , a splinter group from Jacobite .

Other known lines are C-K96 and J-L26

Dewsloth
02-26-2020, 05:44 PM
I would add this one to my sig line, but I'm already at the 500 character limit:

9th great grandfather Thomas Gunn, b.1605 Devon, d.1680 Massachusetts

Another DF19, although from a branch below R-Z17112 on the blocktree that diverged from mine about 2,000+ years ago.

His line:
Germany 16 53.33%
United States 5 16.67%
England 3 10.00%
United Kingdom 1 3.33%
Sweden 1 3.33%
Ireland 1 3.33%
Poland 1 3.33%
Norway 1 3.33%
Scotland 1 3.33%
Unknown Origin 10 **
Total 40


My line's side of the split:
Germany 6 40%
England 3 20.00%
Ireland 1 6.67%
Scotland 1 6.67%
Denmark 1 6.67%
Belgium 1 6.67%
United Kingdom 1 6.67%
Austria 1 6.67%

rms2
03-07-2020, 02:23 PM
Found another via 23andMe. One of my third great grandmothers on my dad's side was a Wilkinson, Margaret "Maggie" Townley Wilkinson, b. 1830 in Escambia County, Florida, daughter of Neil Wilkinson. I have a number of matches on that line at Ancestry, and finally a male Wilkinson in that line has turned up as a match at 23andMe, sharing other matches with me on the same line. He is R1b-S675. S675 is the Jim Wilson Lab name for DF85.

Wilkinson R1b-DF85 Phylogeny: M207>M173>M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310>
L151>P312>Z290>L21>DF13>Z39589>DF49>Z2980>Z2976>DF23>Z2961>Z2956> Z2965>M222>FGC4124>S658>DF104>DF105>DF85 (aka S675)

Nice to bag an M222 line in my pedigree. Wilkinson is supposed to be a Scots surname. Apparently my 4th great grandfather, Neil Wilkinson, was born in North Carolina.

rms2
04-10-2020, 12:41 PM
. . .

2. Gist R1b-DF83 Phylogeny:
M207>M173>M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310>
L151>P312>ZZ11_1>DF27>ZZ12>Z2559>FGC49020>DF83

. . .

Thanks to more matches coming in at Ancestry, I've got further confirmation that R1b-DF83 is indeed the y-dna haplogroup of my maternal grandfather. I'll spare you the details.

I wrote to a male Gist relative who has a 67-marker test result in Group 02 in the Gist Project (kit 769833) hoping to talk him into upgrading to the Big Y-700, but he hasn't answered me (a trend on that side of the family).

Webb
04-10-2020, 02:54 PM
Thanks to more matches coming in at Ancestry, I've got further confirmation that R1b-DF83 is indeed the y-dna haplogroup of my maternal grandfather. I'll spare you the details.

I wrote to a male Gist relative who has a 67-marker test result in Group 02 in the Gist Project (kit 769833) hoping to talk him into upgrading to the Big Y-700, but he hasn't answered me (a trend on that side of the family).

You said Gist is from Cornwall/ Devon area?

rms2
04-10-2020, 06:10 PM
You said Gist is from Cornwall/ Devon area?

The surname is most common in Devon, as I recall, but my mom's line has been traced to Malmesbury, Wiltshire.

37113

ADW_1981
04-22-2020, 04:07 PM
A cousin of mine with the surname "Richins" popped up in my list a few days ago. Unfortunately, like many of the new members they practice "information hiding" so that even the haplogroups are not available to me. I have kindly asked him this information, and am now waiting for his response. I also used triangulation to determine that this is the surname in common with another female member who has this surname in her tree. This surname is generic, but I suspect comes from the Norman period. Although, due to the fact my ancestor came from Gloucestershire in the 1700's, I suspect a L21+ haplgroup is quite likely, so we will see.

Stephen1986
04-22-2020, 05:10 PM
I only know my direct patrilineal line, the main other line I want to know about is my maternal grandfather's dad's line as he never knew his father.

Ayetooey
04-22-2020, 11:37 PM
I am I2a. My paternal grandfathers mothers father, so my great great grandfather, was E-V13. No clue what my great grandfather through my maternal grandmother was. And no clue of any of the Y dna's on my mothers side, have never matched anyone with any surnames I am familiar with; would like to know my maternal grandfathers Y dna eventually.

tipirneni
04-23-2020, 12:39 AM
Y line is : H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)

found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
also in Gonur2 BMAC culture
Iron Age Pakistan Katelai Samples


H1 is present widely in South Asia but this specific branch Z5890 is also present in Europe, Arabia, Levant, Caucasus etc...

Father side maternal is probably F1
Mother side maternal is probably J2b2

There are also other significant relations in R2, L1, Q, R1a which show up on Ancestry, FTDNA and MyHeritage

Dewsloth
04-23-2020, 02:15 PM
I would add this one to my sig line, but I'm already at the 500 character limit:

9th great grandfather Thomas Gunn, b.1605 Devon, d.1680 Massachusetts

Another DF19, although from a branch below R-Z17112 on the blocktree that diverged from mine about 2,000+ years ago.



My mother and her twin sister are talking about buying a FTDNA kit for their little brother. I'm pushing them to get him a Big Y (on sale right now) as well as FF, as he's the best shot we'll ever have at knowing their father's (my Lebanese-side maternal grandfather's) Y-DNA.
I told her I'd throw in $100, but maybe I should up my bid...

RVBLAKE
04-23-2020, 02:34 PM
Blake R1a-L664
Marion I-M253
Blanchard I-M253
Ouellette J-M172
Archambault R-M269
Arsenault R-M269
Boucher E-M35
Boudreau R-M269
Bourg R-M269
Bourgeois R-M269

Edward J
04-23-2020, 02:40 PM
Most curious one for me so far is a German line that is potentially under C-M217 (C-Y11990)

rms2
05-02-2020, 07:43 PM
I may be closing in on the y-dna haplogroup of another of the lines in my pedigree. One of my second great grandmothers was Frances A. "Fannie" Nicholson, the daughter of William Alexander Nicholson, the son of Nicholas Nicholson, the son of Donald Nicholson (1735-1817). Donald was Donald MacNicol when he was born in Glenorchy, Argyll, Scotland. His wife's name was Katherine MacArthur (b. about 1742).

Anyway, it looks like the y-dna haplogroup could be R1b-FT135802, which is a few steps downstream of DF21.

Have to confirm that, though. It might be wrong.

Fun investigating, though.

Nqp15hhu
05-03-2020, 02:49 PM
I only know three lines:

My line: R1B-L193

Maternal Grandmothers Line: R1B-M222 (BY470)

Maternal Grandfathers line: R1B-M222.

Paternal Great Grandmothers line: I-M253.

rms2
05-08-2020, 01:51 AM
I may be closing in on the y-dna haplogroup of another of the lines in my pedigree. One of my second great grandmothers was Frances A. "Fannie" Nicholson, the daughter of William Alexander Nicholson, the son of Nicholas Nicholson, the son of Donald Nicholson (1735-1817). Donald was Donald MacNicol when he was born in Glenorchy, Argyll, Scotland. His wife's name was Katherine MacArthur (b. about 1742).

Anyway, it looks like the y-dna haplogroup could be R1b-FT135802, which is a few steps downstream of DF21.

Have to confirm that, though. It might be wrong.

Fun investigating, though.

Heard from one of my FTDNA Family Finder Nicholson matches by email just a few minutes ago. He says his son did a y-dna test and got an R-M269 result. Now I'm asking him if he can tell me if his son is in the Nicholson Project at FTDNA. If I can find out which section he is in on that project's dna results page, I might be able to confirm whether or not my Nicholson line is R1b-FT135802, like I think it might be.

At least now I have it narrowed down to R1b-M269.

rms2
09-15-2020, 10:43 AM
Managed to recruit a a male 4th cousin in my mother's maiden surname line for a Y-37 test with FTDNA. We share a pair of third great grandparents. His results are due sometime from 26 October through 09 November. He's from my mom's hometown.

ADW_1981
09-23-2020, 02:52 AM
It's not bad. Keep us posted.

No dice. Looks like an NPE :/

Dewsloth
09-23-2020, 03:56 PM
I would add this one to my sig line, but I'm already at the 500 character limit:

9th great grandfather Thomas Gunn, b.1605 Devon, d.1680 Massachusetts

Another DF19, although from a branch below R-Z17112 on the blocktree that diverged from mine about 2,000+ years ago.

His line:
Germany 16 53.33%
United States 5 16.67%
England 3 10.00%
United Kingdom 1 3.33%
Sweden 1 3.33%
Ireland 1 3.33%
Poland 1 3.33%
Norway 1 3.33%
Scotland 1 3.33%
Unknown Origin 10 **
Total 40


My line's side of the split:
Germany 6 40%
England 3 20.00%
Ireland 1 6.67%
Scotland 1 6.67%
Denmark 1 6.67%
Belgium 1 6.67%
United Kingdom 1 6.67%
Austria 1 6.67%

So I hit the y haplogroup jackpot with 9th great-grandfather Gunn, as he and filed-incisor, hacked-to-death VK333 from the Viking paper share a terminal public SNP block here; and my own Y-line is also part of the BY44243 block (in with the Germans).

https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=3410&star=false

"Gunn" is apparently a Scottish surname of Norse origin which doesn't prove anything, but is at least consistent. Some of the records indicate Thomas' father was from Braemore, Caithness, Scotland.

uintah106
09-23-2020, 05:21 PM
he and filed-incisor, hacked-to-death VK333 from the Viking paper share a terminal public SNP block here; and my own Y-line is also part of the BY44243 block (in with the Germans.)

Sounds like a Berserker!

Dewsloth
09-23-2020, 05:34 PM
he and filed-incisor, hacked-to-death VK333 from the Viking paper share a terminal public SNP block here; and my own Y-line is also part of the BY44243 block (in with the Germans.)

Sounds like a Berserker!

Or maybe he just snored really loud and gritted his teeth until his wife took him out in his sleep. :lol:

uintah106
09-23-2020, 06:47 PM
Or maybe he just snored really loud and gritted his teeth until his wife took him out in his sleep. :lol:

Really incredible match though!

Dewsloth
10-01-2020, 10:34 PM
Turns out my 10th great grandfather Rev. Joseph Hull is the same subclade as at least 8 of the Viking paper burials.
I have him as I1-L1301, but Yfull calls it I1-S73:

https://yfull.com/tree/I-Z73/

He was born around 1595 in Crewkerne, Somerset (Wessex), which seems to have had Saxon-then-Norman roots:

History

Will of Alfred the Great, AD 873–888, mentions land at Crucern (11th-century copy, British Library Stowe MS 944, ff. 29v–33r)[2]
The name Crewkerne is thought to be derived from Cruc-aera; from the British cruc - a spur of a hill, and the Old English aera - a house, especially a storehouse.[3] The town was known as Crocern, or Cruaern in the 899 will of Alfred the Great when he left it to his younger son Ęthelweard, and by 1066 the manor was held by Edith Swanneck mistress of King Harold.[4] After the Norman conquest it was held by William the Conqueror and the church estate was given to the Abbaye-aux-Hommes in Caen, Normandy.[4] In the Domesday Survey of 1086 it was described as a royal manor.[5]

Edit: Oh heck, there's a whole wikipedia page about him:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Hull

rms2
10-03-2020, 10:13 PM
. . .

Here are the y-dna haplogroups in my own pedigree that I know about . . .

2. Gist R1b-DF83 Phylogeny:
M207>M173>M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310>
L151>P312>ZZ11_1>DF27>ZZ12>Z2559>FGC49020>DF83
. . .

Oops! Thought I had the y-chromosome haplogroup of my maternal grandfather pinpointed via the Gist DNA Project, but it turns out I had the wrong folks. So I have to take back what I posted above.

I recently recruited a fourth cousin for Y-37 testing with FTDNA. We share the same set of Gist 3rd great grandparents, and this guy is from my mother's hometown, so it's solid. I expected him to land in Group 02 in the Gist Project, which has tested R1b-DF83. Well, to my surprise, he wound up in Group 01 instead, which is seriously under tested and has no SNP results, just the usual FTDNA R1b-M269 prediction.

So now I'm hoping someone in Gist Group 01 will order the Big Y-700 so I can find out more about my maternal grandfather's y-chromosome line.

RVBLAKE
10-03-2020, 10:44 PM
Blake R1a>M459>R198>M417>CTS4385>L664>S2857>YP943

Dewsloth
10-09-2020, 04:21 PM
One of my 9th great-grandfathers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon_Tillinghast
Like many early colonists, he has zillions of descendants in the US, but the Tillinghast group at FTDNA only has 23 members, and none of them (that I can see) are male Tillinghasts who have tested. Nevertheless, some day I might know his Y-DNA, too.

Edit: This footnote just blew my mind:

a. ^ This date has been incorrectly interpreted by several writers as being 19 November 1645. The date was actually written "19th of eleventh month" [1645/6] which at that period of time meant 19 January. In the English colonies, up until about 1752, March was the first month of the year, and January was the 11th month.

digital_noise
10-09-2020, 07:49 PM
I dont know much beyond my paragroup. Its me and a Serbian. E-V13-E-PH1246-E-BY14160. There a re a few people upstream, but beyond that nothing. I have traced paternal side back to early 1700's. Italian wikipedia says the town was formed in the 1400's by Greek and Albanian refugess from Constantinople after the Ottoman take over, but honestly I have no idea if thats even true or not, especially given Locri already existed on the coast, and Gerace was already formed and both those towns are a stones throw away.

Unlike R1b and other groups, E-V13 is a ghost town, especially the PH1246 side as most tested are CTS5856+

Hawk
10-09-2020, 07:55 PM
Both my paternal and the paternal of maternal side E-V13 S2979.

Dewsloth
10-09-2020, 09:08 PM
I dont know much beyond my paragroup. Its me and a Serbian. E-V13-E-PH1246-E-BY14160. There a re a few people upstream, but beyond that nothing. I have traced paternal side back to early 1700's. Italian wikipedia says the town was formed in the 1400's by Greek and Albanian refugess from Constantinople after the Ottoman take over, but honestly I have no idea if thats even true or not, especially given Locri already existed on the coast, and Gerace was already formed and both those towns are a stones throw away.

Unlike R1b and other groups, E-V13 is a ghost town, especially the PH1246 side as most tested are CTS5856+

E-V13 is a subclade of the known clade (E-M35) of my 10th great grandfather, Richard Warren. I think they are waiting for Big Y result, so we may find out more in the future.

Not that it will help explain much about the clade: While Warren was a Mayflower passenger and has literally millions of descendants in the US, little is known of him before his arrival in North America.

http://mayflowerhistory.com/warren

alchemist223
10-15-2020, 10:09 PM
delete

alchemist223
10-15-2020, 10:12 PM
I dont know much beyond my paragroup. Its me and a Serbian. E-V13-E-PH1246-E-BY14160. There a re a few people upstream, but beyond that nothing. I have traced paternal side back to early 1700's. Italian wikipedia says the town was formed in the 1400's by Greek and Albanian refugess from Constantinople after the Ottoman take over, but honestly I have no idea if thats even true or not, especially given Locri already existed on the coast, and Gerace was already formed and both those towns are a stones throw away.

Unlike R1b and other groups, E-V13 is a ghost town, especially the PH1246 side as most tested are CTS5856+

Funnily enough, I just had a Y-DNA "breakthrough" on my maternal side of the family. I found a DNA Match who shares my great-grandmother's (uncommon outside of one or two small towns) surname, and this is also an E-V13 from Calabria, Italy. Still on the hunt for my maternal Y-DNA!

Stefanie
10-15-2020, 11:38 PM
I know my dad’s haplogroup because my brother tested at 23andme and got J-M67. The surname is Dowers, maybe once Tauhauer. My dad’s cousin tested at 23 and came back with J-L210. That’s where I got that from. 23 has a new search by haplogroup feature with their subscription service. I like that filter but it says I have 10 matches of 5,000 who have J-M67, none are related to my on my paternal side, and one with J-L210. I would love to test my brother farther at FTDNA but he went and moved to Virginia! About a thousand miles away. Lol. Anyway, that haplogroup is one of my biggest mysteries. I’ve got some more local cousins I guess I could ask.

My mother’s father’s line have done extensive Y testing already. The surname is Lee. I can’t remember the exact subclade offhand but it’s I something. They figured out we’re not from the more we’ll known Lees from Virginia, but from John who settled in Nansomond. I’ve been unraveling my Lees for years. Lol. A combination of paper trail and dna matches to the wives families. Slowly but surely making progress. Though the matches thin out with time. My mother’s brother’s son said he’d test for me. I might get him to. Just to make sure.

digital_noise
10-16-2020, 12:19 AM
Funnily enough, I just had a Y-DNA "breakthrough" on my maternal side of the family. I found a DNA Match who shares my great-grandmother's (uncommon outside of one or two small towns) surname, and this is also an E-V13 from Calabria, Italy. This could be a huge breakthrough, as I have not been able to find any records from their small town. The surname is Lijoi (sometimes spelled Lioi). Still on the hunt for my maternal Y-DNA!

Are you familiar with Antenati? The document repository?

alchemist223
10-16-2020, 03:29 AM
Are you familiar with Antenati? The document repository?

No I am not.

digital_noise
10-16-2020, 03:51 AM
No I am not.

Lots of the old towns have their birth, marriage, death etc records scanned. Depending on the town, records might be immaculate. Or they could be few and far between. What town was it?

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to give the link...

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/v/Archivio+di+Stato+di+Reggio+Calabria/

alchemist223
10-16-2020, 04:19 AM
Virtually my entire maternal family comes from this small town (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sant%27Andrea_Apostolo_dello_Ionio)in Calabria. Supposedly this surname is of Greek origin.

alchemist223
10-16-2020, 02:50 PM
Funnily enough, I just had a Y-DNA "breakthrough" on my maternal side of the family. I found a DNA Match who shares my great-grandmother's (uncommon outside of one or two small towns) surname, and this is also an E-V13 from Calabria, Italy. This could be a huge breakthrough, as I have not been able to find any records from their small town. The surname is Lijoi (sometimes spelled Lioi). Still on the hunt for my maternal Y-DNA!

This has been confirmed, the gentleman who was kind enough to share his DNA result with me confirmed that a fourth cousin with the same surname also belongs to E-V13.

alchemist223
10-16-2020, 04:07 PM
Further update: my maternal Y-DNA results could very possibly be J2-L210, as someone with that surname has tested. They come from the exact same town as the great-grandparent above.

alchemist223
10-16-2020, 04:14 PM
I know my dad’s haplogroup because my brother tested at 23andme and got J-M67. The surname is Dowers, maybe once Tauhauer. My dad’s cousin tested at 23 and came back with J-L210. That’s where I got that from. 23 has a new search by haplogroup feature with their subscription service. I like that filter but it says I have 10 matches of 5,000 who have J-M67, none are related to my on my paternal side, and one with J-L210. I would love to test my brother farther at FTDNA but he went and moved to Virginia! About a thousand miles away. Lol. Anyway, that haplogroup is one of my biggest mysteries. I’ve got some more local cousins I guess I could ask.

My mother’s father’s line have done extensive Y testing already. The surname is Lee. I can’t remember the exact subclade offhand but it’s I something. They figured out we’re not from the more we’ll known Lees from Virginia, but from John who settled in Nansomond. I’ve been unraveling my Lees for years. Lol. A combination of paper trail and dna matches to the wives families. Slowly but surely making progress. Though the matches thin out with time. My mother’s brother’s son said he’d test for me. I might get him to. Just to make sure.

You could possibly share my maternal family's Y-DNA, as it also tested as J-L210.

Stefanie
10-16-2020, 08:22 PM
You could possibly share my maternal family's Y-DNA, as it also tested as J-L210.

Just read about your discovery. What a great find! :) I have a rare surname too. My best guess is the name is German from where it ended up in Philadelphia and Lancaster County. According to the pension application from the American Revolution for who I think is my 4x great grandfather’s brother, Dowers is the English version of Tauhauer. My “Uncle” was in a German regiment and was married in a German church. He also had at least one daughter baptized as Tauhauer. My grandfather and this person moved to the same small town in Indiana and were buried in the same cemetery. I’m almost certain they were brothers. The clues are slow in coming on that line. What I can’t figure out is how the haplogroup got to Germany. Or at least a German speaking country back then. The most logical answer would be if I had a Jewish ancestor. But I don’t believe I did. Or at least an Ashkenazi ancestor. I don’t receive Jewish on any major test except for European Jewish once at Ancestry in their range scores, back when you could see those. And I don’t have any fully Ashkenazi matches anywhere. I think Ashkenazi would show up in my matches. And it doesn’t. What I do receive in small amounts on every test, except MyHeritage that gives me 15% Italian, is West Asian and/or North African DNA. Well, every test before they all updated and gave me pretty much 100% British and Irish. Lol. But two of my dad’s paternal first cousins have tested at 23andme, one female, and they both have small amounts of West Asian and North African also. So that may be where that’s coming from anyway. I also get small amounts of Southern European dna. Other than a known distant grandfather from Tuscany on my mother’s side, I have no answer for that either. Maybe there’s a clue to my dad’s haplogroup in there somewhere. But the one thing I keep going back to is that the ancient Hungarian BR2 had Haplogroup J-M67 long before most theories of when and how the haplogroup got to Europe. So there’s that to consider. It may have been in Europe longer than thought.

It’s all very fascinating. And thank all you guys for testing. And adding to the knowledge for all of us. Good luck to you and everyone on your journeys.

ThaYamamoto
10-16-2020, 08:36 PM
Absolutely nothing. With my predicted haplogroup, I'm not sure there's much point exploring it further. But I would like to when its cheaper to do a big Y.

alchemist223
10-16-2020, 09:01 PM
Just read about your discovery. What a great find! :) I have a rare surname too. My best guess is the name is German from where it ended up in Philadelphia and Lancaster County. According to the pension application from the American Revolution for who I think is my 4x great grandfather’s brother, Dowers is the English version of Tauhauer. My “Uncle” was in a German regiment and was married in a German church. He also had at least one daughter baptized as Tauhauer. My grandfather and this person moved to the same small town in Indiana and were buried in the same cemetery. I’m almost certain they were brothers. The clues are slow in coming on that line. What I can’t figure out is how the haplogroup got to Germany. Or at least a German speaking country back then. The most logical answer would be if I had a Jewish ancestor. But I don’t believe I did. Or at least an Ashkenazi ancestor. I don’t receive Jewish on any major test except for European Jewish once at Ancestry in their range scores, back when you could see those. And I don’t have any fully Ashkenazi matches anywhere. I think Ashkenazi would show up in my matches. And it doesn’t. What I do receive in small amounts on every test, except MyHeritage that gives me 15% Italian, is West Asian and/or North African DNA. Well, every test before they all updated and gave me pretty much 100% British and Irish. Lol. But two of my dad’s paternal first cousins have tested at 23andme, one female, and they both have small amounts of West Asian and North African also. So that may be where that’s coming from anyway. I also get small amounts of Southern European dna. Other than a known distant grandfather from Tuscany on my mother’s side, I have no answer for that either. Maybe there’s a clue to my dad’s haplogroup in there somewhere. But the one thing I keep going back to is that the ancient Hungarian BR2 had Haplogroup J-M67 long before most theories of when and how the haplogroup got to Europe. So there’s that to consider. It may have been in Europe longer than thought.

It’s all very fascinating. And thank all you guys for testing. And adding to the knowledge for all of us. Good luck to you and everyone on your journeys.

Our only clue is that this surname comes from a "Biblical personal name", supposedly. And I have not seen any Jewish DNA on any of the tests I've taken (FTDNA, Ancestry, or 23andme).

digital_noise
10-16-2020, 09:54 PM
current autosomal admix at this point likely has little to nothing to do with your Y-DNA. Meaning of someone is J and thinks it might’ve from a Jewish ancestor but has no Ashkenazi in their admix, that doesn’t necessarily mean there wasn’t an Ashkenazi 1000 years ago. The haplogroups that 23/me assigns are old, the only way to get something more recent is through deeper Y testing like Big Y (looks like most have gone this route) or whatever other equivalent test is offered. Then you might gland one a more recent subclade that is obviously from a specific location but that relies on others testing. It could also not be as few and far between for other haplogroups, but like I mentioned E-V13 is a relative ghost town, at least in terms of ancient DNA and making much headway as to origins. Maybe other haplogroups are not as sparsely populated...

Stefanie
10-17-2020, 01:46 AM
current autosomal admix at this point likely has little to nothing to do with your Y-DNA. Meaning of someone is J and thinks it might’ve from a Jewish ancestor but has no Ashkenazi in their admix, that doesn’t necessarily mean there wasn’t an Ashkenazi 1000 years ago. The haplogroups that 23/me assigns are old, the only way to get something more recent is through deeper Y testing like Big Y (looks like most have gone this route) or whatever other equivalent test is offered. Then you might gland one a more recent subclade that is obviously from a specific location but that relies on others testing. It could also not be as few and far between for other haplogroups, but like I mentioned E-V13 is a relative ghost town, at least in terms of ancient DNA and making much headway as to origins. Maybe other haplogroups are not as sparsely populated...

Thanks. Yes, I’d thought of that. The ancestor may have been too distant to show up in autosomal tests or matches. I do hope to get my brother to do deeper testing eventually, and as you say hope for matches. This thread inspired me to look at my 23 matches to find the Lee haplogroup as far as they tested it anyway. Out of 16 of my matches with this haplogroup 10 were Lees along my grandfather’s line. There were no Lee matches who didn’t have that haplogroup. Not every name I looked up that should all have the same haplogroup did. So I’m not sure what’s going on there. In two cases it was a difference of an R or an I haplogroup. So I won’t comment on those families. This one I’m pretty sure of. Was interesting looking at my matches through the haplogroup filter. Some I’d never seen before.

Lee - I-Z60

alchemist223
10-19-2020, 02:59 PM
current autosomal admix at this point likely has little to nothing to do with your Y-DNA. Meaning of someone is J and thinks it might’ve from a Jewish ancestor but has no Ashkenazi in their admix, that doesn’t necessarily mean there wasn’t an Ashkenazi 1000 years ago. The haplogroups that 23/me assigns are old, the only way to get something more recent is through deeper Y testing like Big Y (looks like most have gone this route) or whatever other equivalent test is offered. Then you might gland one a more recent subclade that is obviously from a specific location but that relies on others testing. It could also not be as few and far between for other haplogroups, but like I mentioned E-V13 is a relative ghost town, at least in terms of ancient DNA and making much headway as to origins. Maybe other haplogroups are not as sparsely populated...

Good point, I wonder which subclade under L210 my maternal family belongs to.

rms2
12-22-2020, 04:38 PM
Got authoritative word on the Y-DNA haplogroup of my maternal grandfather (surname Gist) this morning via the Big Y-700 results of a relative in the same Y-chromosome line.

His terminal SNP makes him R1b-FGC59523.

Here's the phylogeny:

M207>M173>M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310> L151>P312>Z290> L21>DF13>ZZ10>Z253>FGC3268>ZZ6>BY43439>BY4303>FGC59516>FGC59535> FGC59523

I put L21 and Z253 in bold because those are particularly significant to me, if to no one else.

So, yeah, I am R1b-L21 on both sides of my pedigree.

So, was my maternal grandfather derived for that terminal SNP, FGC59523? Honestly, I don't know. The MRCA he and this Gist relative share was Nathaniel Gist. He was born about 1707, so some branching could have occurred a SNP or two back down the tree in the direction of the root. Thus my grandfather's terminal SNP might be something other than FGC59523.

Anyway, though, these results certainly get me in the right neighborhood.

BTW, the subject of these Big Y-700 results passed away back in 2012. FTDNA used his sample from their cold storage, a sample he submitted back in 2004!

Thanks, God! Another answered prayer!

Hawk
12-22-2020, 10:33 PM
Paternal side of my mother E-V13 => S2979 => FGC33625

Paternal side of grandmother(father): E-V13 => S2979 => FGC33625

Paternal side of grandmother (mother): J2b2 => L283 or E-V13 => S2979 => L241 probably?

rms2
12-30-2020, 12:17 AM
Got authoritative word on the Y-DNA haplogroup of my maternal grandfather (surname Gist) this morning via the Big Y-700 results of a relative in the same Y-chromosome line.

His terminal SNP makes him R1b-FGC59523.

Here's the phylogeny:

M207>M173>M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310> L151>P312>Z290> L21>DF13>ZZ10>Z253>FGC3268>ZZ6>BY43439>BY4303>FGC59516>FGC59535> FGC59523

I put L21 and Z253 in bold because those are particularly significant to me, if to no one else.

So, yeah, I am R1b-L21 on both sides of my pedigree.

So, was my maternal grandfather derived for that terminal SNP, FGC59523? Honestly, I don't know. The MRCA he and this Gist relative share was Nathaniel Gist. He was born about 1707, so some branching could have occurred a SNP or two back down the tree in the direction of the root. Thus my grandfather's terminal SNP might be something other than FGC59523.

Anyway, though, these results certainly get me in the right neighborhood.

BTW, the subject of these Big Y-700 results passed away back in 2012. FTDNA used his sample from their cold storage, a sample he submitted back in 2004!

Thanks, God! Another answered prayer!

Those of you who have been around Big Y results for awhile know how these things go. Well, I jumped the gun a little bit in posting all of that above, although most of it is right. I went with what FTDNA had on my Gist relative's Big Y Block Tree, which showed his terminal SNP as FGC59523. In doing some checking afterwards, I found there were other places in which FTDNA was reporting his terminal SNP as FGC37526, so I emailed them and asked about it.

To make a long story short, it turns out kit 25861 is ancestral (negative) for FGC59523 but derived (positive) for FGC37526, which should necessitate a change to the tree, since the two SNPs had been thought to be on the same phylogenetic level.

Currently, however, FTDNA is listing kit 25861 as R1b-FGC59516, which is a couple of steps back up the tree.

So, I'm going to back off and wait to see how everything shakes out.

In the meantime, R1b-FGC59516 is a solid, conservative placeholder until the dust settles.

rms2
12-30-2020, 02:53 PM
FTDNA has updated my Gist relative's status to show him as R-BY93500 (R1b-BY93500). That ought to do it for a while!

Here's the phylogeny:


M207>M173>M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310>L151>P312>Z290> L21>DF13>ZZ10>Z253>FGC3268>ZZ6>BY43439>BY4303>FGC59516>BY93500

I put the salient SNPs in bold.

Good stuff!

rms2
01-05-2021, 01:29 AM
Found out about another one today. One of my second great grandmothers is Sarah Lucinda English, born about 1830, the daughter of John Wilson English and his wife Sarah Kimbrell. Got a match at 23andMe to a man with the surname English who is related to me on that line. He is I-M253, and that is as detailed as 23andMe gets regarding his y-dna haplogroup. This gentleman and I have exchanged messages via 23andMe and confirmed the relationship. I have a number of matches at Ancestry on the same line.

So that's the second I-M253 line I know about, but there may be a third, because all I know about my Stutz line is the it is I-M170. That's an old Geno Project result. I don't know what subclade of I-M170 the Stutz men belong to. It might be I-M253, but then again it might not.

Got another match at 23andMe on that same line, surname English, also (naturally) I-M253.

Too bad that's as far as 23andMe goes.

ADW_1981
01-21-2021, 10:47 PM
A second cousin of my father's came in. The common link is through a sister, and unfortunately my paper trail is dry prior to that so I don't know the oldest common male ancestor. The YDNA is R-U152 on the latest chip at 23andMe, so I can assume he is negative for things like L2, or L20, but this still feels so generic in 2021.

tipirneni
01-22-2021, 12:23 AM
Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)

On FTDNA, a Saudi is listed as H-Z5890 and a European Wormley and one Swiss person 1 branch higher. However vast percent of this clade 97% (of approx 10M) is probably in South Asia.

One of a study estimated the total clade H-Z5890 numbers as 2M but adding up %s shows in the range of 10M-20M which is still not much compared to other H1a1 clades little higher up in the branch

cvolt
01-22-2021, 12:40 AM
My dad is J2b2 - weirdly (or maybe not?), none of his 23andme matches are J2b2.

rms2
01-30-2021, 05:09 PM
My dad is J2b2 - weirdly (or maybe not?), none of his 23andme matches are J2b2.

Of course, autosomal DNA is separate from Y-DNA.

By far most of my 23andMe matches don't belong to the same Y-DNA haplogroup that I do. I do have a couple of matches who do, but they are both third cousins of mine and have my surname.