View Full Version : FGC17460

12-28-2019, 02:09 PM
My last known haplogroup has been changed from FGC17465 to FGC17460. I know that FGC17465 is thought to have started about 2000 years ago. Does anyone have any information on FGC17460 they can share?



Wing Genealogist
12-28-2019, 03:23 PM
I take it you have either taken a Big Y test through Family Tree DNA or a Y-Elite test through Full Genomes.

Originally FGC17465 was at the same clade level as FGC17460. It appears a fairly recent Big Y (or Y Elite) test result came back as FGC17465+ but FGC17460- (thus splitting the clade).

Mutations are random events, so we cannot know with any deal of certainty the time between the creation of the FGC17465 clade and the FGC17460 clade. On average a clade is discovered in a Big Y result roughly every 80 years or so, but it can vary quite a bit (such as one generation to several generations).

Thus the date for your FGC17465 clade would be roughly 1900 years ago or so (with quite a bit of leeway on either end).

01-02-2020, 09:31 PM
Hi Tancred, my terminal SNP is dowstream FGC17460.
Wing, if my understanding is correct, since there are 10 mutations between FGC17465 and FGC17460 (FGC17460, A4647, A4654, FGC17470, FGC17472, FT14697, FT17295, FT17501, FT20110, FT21002), it means that approximately 800 years have passed between the periods when the first carrier of FGC17465 and the first carrier of FGC17460 lived respectively ?

01-03-2020, 01:57 AM
It is very interesting to me that you are FGC17460 and from France. I recently discovered that my ancestors were Huguenots, most likely from somewhere on Normandy. I have suspected for a while that genetically my ancestry is Frankish.


01-03-2020, 06:52 AM
It is really very interesting indeed! Do you know more precisely where in Normandy your family is from?

My family is also from Normandy, in the Avranches area, very close to Brittany. My terminal SNP is BY11544 and my three closest FTDNA BigY matches are all members of a family from Guernsey. I also have a STR match with someone who has a family name close to mine and who thinks to have the same origin in Normandy.

On the FTDNA BigY block, FGC17460 is divided into four branches, the first is the basal to which I believe you belong, the second, BY11544, the one to which I belong and which, because of its locations in Guernsey and Avranches must have a common ancestor who lived in Cotentin (Manche) a little over a thousand years ago, the third branch, BY67801, is only represented by two men who have a common ancestor from Germany aged three or four hundred years, and finally the fourth and most important branch, FGC17464, of which almost all the representatives have an origin in the Brittish islands, with the exception of two Scandinavians who have a relatively recent common ancestor. The common ancestor of FGC17464 would have lived approximately 1500 years ago, perhaps on the coasts of the North Sea, in Friesland, Saxony or Denmark for example.

And yes it seems to me quite possible that your paternal line comes from Franks. The Guernsey family believe that their ancestors were already in Normandy before the Viking invasions : it could be either Franks or Saxons which at the end of the Roman Empire settled on the southern coast of the English Channel, in Gaul, where is Normandy today.

All these data seem to me consistent with an ancestor common to all the branches FGC17460 having lived in Roman times, shortly before or after Jesus Christ, somewhere in the Netherlands, in Belgium or in North-West Germany.

01-04-2020, 01:48 PM
I can't say for certain Normandy was the ancestrallocation. But Normandy seems to have been the most common place of origin for Huguenots who made their way to England in the 1500s. I have to patiently wait for other FGC17460 subclades to be discovered.

01-04-2020, 09:33 PM
Perhaps your huguenot ancestors are from a younger branch of the lords of Poix (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maison_Tyrel), in Picardy, who knows?

You are right to be patient, you will one day discover someone with a common subclade downstream of FGC17460. As we say in French : "Tout vient point pour qui sait attendre".

In order to locate them more easily in time and space I made a R-FGC17460 subclades map (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hMVRjhr3iO5_4UL9r6mlyLlTbT9VsOsM&usp=sharing) by adding the data found on FTDNA R1b-U106 project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/U106?iframe=yresults) and other websites.

01-05-2020, 12:15 AM
I like your map, I have bookmarked it. I am the Terrell.

02-26-2020, 08:17 PM
I am not sure why you regard it as of French origin. It looks to be more germanic ( perhaps Franks) but because of its scandinavian and Normandy connections it could well be of Viking origin. Short of that I would bet on the Saxons.

02-29-2020, 09:03 AM
I believe that the two hypotheses are not incompatible, chronologically speaking: the Saxons and the Franks arrived in the north of Gaul with the great migrations in the Roman Empire, and contributed to the genetic diversity of the French population of these regions. The Vikings arrived a few century later on the Normandy coast. Tancred's patrilineal ancestors may be both French, in the 16th century, and have one of the Germanic origins above.