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Kamo
01-01-2020, 07:45 PM
Haven't posted in a while. My initial result on 67 marker test was I1-M253. Per advice I tested further SNPs and was found to be positive for L813 and my haplogroup was changed from I1-M253 to L813 on FTDNA. I tested further and then was found to be I-FGC9462 and then my haplogroup was changed to that. Just to remind, my surname is Irish in origin and literally everyone in that family project of same surname is R1B-M222. I am the odd man out. So no luck at all finding any relations within the group. I only have 1 single match with my same surname and in contacting him, he knew no more than I do and at some point he stopped replying and the conversation ended. I have tried contacting other matches both in the British Isles as well as Scandinavia especially those who are matches from 12 through 67 markers and the fewest steps removed. I have not received a single reply which I find a little odd frankly. I was going to upgrade to the Y111 or even big700 but in discussing it with others who have done so, I do not believe at this point that the upgrade is worth it. Many who I have discussed it with are telling me it left them with even more questions as opposed to getting any closer to narrowing ancestry down. It would appear that I am left to see this as simply an interesting hobby or something along those lines because any digging to find ancestral origins etc appears to be fairly futile. I must be descended from aliens lol. On one hand it's all pretty fascinating while on the other it has been a bit of an exercise in frustration. I had no idea it would be so difficult to even communicate with matches. I mean why bother providing contact info if you have no intention of responding? The only thing I have at least attempted to do is to use the TIP calculator on matches to try to get at least an approximation of time frame of MCRA and if I am using it correctly, it would seem the MRCA points to at minimum 1000 or so years ago though I know this is not a scientific method especially considering the generations listed only go back 24 generations(NOT 1000 years). Just curious to know if there is anything else that can even be done at this point in a situation like mine. I am told that while not rare in the extreme, it is fairly rare to not have but a single match with same surname as in my case. I have to believe I'm not so 'special' as to be the only one running into what seems to be a brick wall.

JoeyP37
01-01-2020, 07:59 PM
I just looked at that I-L813 YTree and it looks like you're a Viking! The FGC9462 has samples from Norway and Sweden and a new sample with origin unlisted. No one with my surname would match my haplogroup, either, because of what I call a soft NPE (rather than a hard NPE, which is what appears to have caused your singularity); and it is quite recent: the surname my father bears is not the one he was born with. He and his brothers bear the surname of their mother's second husband, their stepfather, while they were, of course, sired by her first husband. Ironically, I have one haplogroup match in 23andMe and he also, like my father, bears the first name-but not the last name-of his biological father, the surname our immigrant male-line ancestor adopted upon arriving in Chicago in the late 1850s, a slightly Anglicized version of his original German surname. Judging from shared relatives, we are both descended in the male line from my male-line great-great-grandfather.

spruithean
01-01-2020, 08:11 PM
Honestly, I’d recommend Big Y700 because it would provide with both terminal SNP results and it would also provide you with more than 111 STRs. I’m in the same position as you, not many matches and on my own sort of sub-branch of the I-Y3647 tree which looks rather British Isles focused with some classes elsewhere.

Keep in mind that your lineage may not be an NPE just because you aren’t M222. It’s possible that your direct paternal lineage was Norse and eventually became Gaelicised and adopted the surname you carry today.

Kamo
01-01-2020, 08:56 PM
Honestly, I’d recommend Big Y700 because it would provide with both terminal SNP results and it would also provide you with more than 111 STRs. I’m in the same position as you, not many matches and on my own sort of sub-branch of the I-Y3647 tree which looks rather British Isles focused with some classes elsewhere.

Keep in mind that your lineage may not be an NPE just because you aren’t M222. It’s possible that your direct paternal lineage was Norse and eventually became Gaelicised and adopted the surname you carry today.

Thanks as always spruithean. Yes I only recently found reliable info regarding the surname issue and NPE as well as simply the child being given the mother's family surname and also a child being taken in by a family and given their name. The only thing I know for sure at this point is that my matches share no familial relations that any of us would have known. I only recently found out that surnames in Scandinavia are a fairly recent thing(less than 200 years). With that in mind I have focused chiefly on matches in the British Isles even though I have more of them in Norway and Sweden. I am very into History and always have been so aside even from my own personal search I enjoy learning. Some of that learning has even lead me back to the ancestry and dna issue. If one goes back far enough of course, Norwegians Danes and Swedes did not call themselves by those names just as in the case of in the British Isles. Specific location was everything and for example, the Danes were not in Jutland until fairly long after the migration period. They inhabited the other islands and also the southern part of what is today considered Sweden(Skane) They also at some point controlled Skane and the area around the Oslofjord for many centuries which is today considered of course, Norway and people living there Norwegians. Back in the Viking Age those residing on the West side of the Oslofjord would have called themselves Vestfaldingi which simply meant 'men of Vestfold'. But I digress. As I say, I really get into the history. Please explain the Bigy700 more. With the 67, I had to choose further SNPs to test and not knowing what to do, I simply tested what others suggested. Does the Bigy700 test all possible SNPs or how does it calculate which ones to test? I honestly never have understoodn the purely technical side to this.

mwauthy
01-02-2020, 03:52 PM
Hi Kamo. Spruithean is correct. Big Y-700 is the way to go and today is the last day of the current sale I believe. STR matches and TIP calculators are only useful when people have the same surnames because there is a lack of divergence for a lot of I1. In my project I even see folks that are Y-111 matches despite their common patrilineal ancestor being over 1500 years ago.

Big Y-700 will compare your SNPs to all of the current SNPs in their database and they will keep the rest of your private SNPs in the database as well to cross reference against future testers. Even if you don’t get the answers you want now because of a limited database, at least you’re well positioned to learn more in the future as the database continues to grow. Also, you’ll be able to join a meaningful project based on your current terminal subclade. No point in belonging to a project where people belong to a different haplogroup.

spruithean
01-02-2020, 04:06 PM
Hi Kamo. Spruithean is correct. Big Y-700 is the way to go and today is the last day of the current sale I believe. STR matches and TIP calculators are only useful when people have the same surnames because there is a lack of divergence for a lot of I1. In my project I even see folks that are Y-111 matches despite their common patrilineal ancestor being over 1500 years ago.

I would like to echo this. I have close STR matches to people on entirely different branches of the I-F2642 tree. I even have relatively close STR matches to people on “sibling” branches of I-Y3647 that had me pursuing connections that weren’t genealogically relevant for some period of time. JMcB and I are on different branches of I-Y3647 yet IIRC our STRs would make you think we are more closely related.


Big Y-700 will compare your SNPs to all of the current SNPs in their database and they will keep the rest of your private SNPs in the database as well to cross reference against future testers. Even if you don’t get the answers you want now because of a limited database, at least you’re well positioned to learn more in the future as the database continues to grow. Also, you’ll be able to join a meaningful project based on your current terminal subclade. No point in belonging to a project where people belong to a different haplogroup.

Kamo, Big Y700 will test all SNPs that are relevant to you. It is honestly a better test than Y111 or SNP packs. While expensive you get a better return of data in the end, albeit with a dent in your wallet! Though it is on sale until tomorrow and it will definitely go on sale again at a later date.

JMcB
01-02-2020, 04:50 PM
I would like to echo this. I have close STR matches to people on entirely different branches of the I-F2642 tree. I even have relatively close STR matches to people on “sibling” branches of I-Y3647 that had me pursuing connections that weren’t genealogically relevant for some period of time. JMcB and I are on different branches of I-Y3647 yet IIRC our STRs would make you think we are more closely related.

Yeah, our TIP estimates were off by 1100 years, more or less. For the most part, I ignore STR results unless they’re close surname matches


Kamo, Big Y700 will test all SNPs that are relevant to you. It is honestly a better test than Y111 or SNP packs. While expensive you get a better return of data in the end, albeit with a dent in your wallet! Though it is on sale until tomorrow and it will definitely go on sale again at a later date.

Kamo, if you do decide to upgrade to Y700, you’ll also be getting the 111 marker test thrown in. So if you’re planning on doing anymore YDNA testing, I would suggest getting the Y700 upgrade (on sale). As their sale price is pretty reasonable. If it’s too late this time around, wait for the next big sale.

Kamo
01-02-2020, 10:12 PM
Does the BigY700 bring in new matches that I don't have with my current 67 marker? The other thing I am wondering about is the statement below the BigY700 test description on FTDNA It reads -

"*Raw data files are not included. The option to purchase your file will be available for an additional fee after your test is complete."

spruithean
01-02-2020, 10:28 PM
Does the BigY700 bring in new matches that I don't have with my current 67 marker? The other thing I am wondering about is the statement below the BigY700 test description on FTDNA It reads -

"*Raw data files are not included. The option to purchase your file will be available for an additional fee after your test is complete."

You will see in your STR matches a comparison between 400+ markers, but Big Y offers you the more accurate matching based off of SNPs. This is what helps filter out similar haplotypes (example, me and JMcB ) and helps define parts of the tree.

The blurb you’ve quoted is simply referring to the raw data file you can gain access to which you can then send off to YFull for tree placement, more matches, etc.

Kamo
01-02-2020, 10:56 PM
You will see in your STR matches a comparison between 400+ markers, but Big Y offers you the more accurate matching based off of SNPs. This is what helps filter out similar haplotypes (example, me and JMcB ) and helps define parts of the tree.

The blurb you’ve quoted is simply referring to the raw data file you can gain access to which you can then send off to YFull for tree placement, more matches, etc.

Ok, I see. Ironically my work is in a technical field, but the details,facts,figures et al of the dna issue has been difficult for me to get my head wrapped around.:\
I'm a patient man however so maybe I will get the BigY700 upgrade and depending on how long it takes to get results back considering this holiday season, I'll see what else I can find out. :beerchug:

JMcB
01-02-2020, 11:03 PM
Just so you know going in, the Y700 test is probably not going to show you any new matches beyond what you’re seeing right now. Unless of course, there are new testers whose results are currently processing. The 111 marker portion of the upgrade, will refine the quality of the ones you already have, by showing you how well they hold up at a higher level.

Do you have any matches at the 67 marker level with the Big Y notation next to their name? That’s how you can tell if anyone in your list has already taken the test.

For example: 11 of 651- person’s name, etc + Y-DNA111 FF Big Y

One thing I would suggest is to take your time and make sure you know what your getting before hand. There will always be another sale. So don’t let the fact that the sale is coming to an end rush you in anyway.