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Erikl86
01-03-2020, 10:44 AM
I don't know how we missed that, but there was a recent publication of a study last year which deals with something many of us have been discussing here, especially in the Western Jews mega-thread.

Substructured population growth in the Ashkenazi Jews inferred with Approximate Bayesian Computation (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/467761v1.full)
Abstract"The Ashkenazi Jews (AJ) are a population isolate that have resided in Central Europe since at least the 10th century and share ancestry with both European and Middle Eastern populations. Between the 11th and 16th centuries, AJ expanded eastward leading to two culturally distinct communities, one in central Europe and one in eastern Europe. Our aim was to determine if there are genetically distinct AJ subpopulations that reflect the cultural groups, and if so, what demographic events contributed to the population differentiation. We used Approximate Bayesian Computation (ABC) to choose among models of AJ history and infer demographic parameter values, including divergence times, effective population size, and gene flow. For the ABC analysis we used allele frequency spectrum and identical by descent based statistics to capture information on a wide timescale. We also mitigated the effects of ascertainment bias when performing ABC on SNP array data by jointly modeling and inferring the SNP discovery. We found that the most likely model was population differentiation between the Eastern and Western AJ ~400 years ago. The differentiation between the Eastern and Western AJ could be attributed to more extreme population growth in the Eastern AJ (0.25 per generation) than the Western AJ (0.069 per generation)."

Basically, they've found that the reasons for the substructure between Western and Eastern Ashkenazim is the result of the fast population growth among Eastern Ashkenazim, rather than some non-Ashkenazi or European population influx.

They've also found another quite amazing thing - that the North European admixture event among Western and Eastern Ashkenazi is the same, ie that Eastern Ashkenazi Jews do not have extra Eastern European admixture compare to Western Ashkenazi Jews. They explain this could either be the result of extensive geneflow between Eastern and Western Ashkenazim, or that indeed there was only one source for that North European admixture. Quite groundbreaking.

Here are the three proposed models they've tested for the different split and European admixtures among Western and Eastern AJ, and from all these three found that Model 2 is the most accurate one:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/11/11/467761/F1.medium.gif

They've also again found no trace of Khazar admixture in Eastern Ashkenazim (they mention Elhaik's study).

The PCA they publish is also quite interesting, as it shows that Eastern Ashkenazim are actually closer to other non-Ashkenazi Western Jews, and Western Ashkenazim are more genetically isolated:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/11/11/467761/F2.large.jpg?width=800&height=600&carousel=1

Seabass
01-03-2020, 10:53 AM
I'm looking at this PCA from the study above and if Eastern Ashkenazi are the more bottlenecked ones, why do Western Ashkenazi Jews occupy one end of the PCA's spectrum?

Generalissimo
01-03-2020, 01:00 PM
I've put these samples into the Global25.

Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_1
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_2
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_3
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_4
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_5
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_6
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_7
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_8
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_9
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_10
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_11
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_12
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_13
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_1
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_2
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_3
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_4
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_5
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_6
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_8
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_9
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_10
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_11
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_1
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_2
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_3
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_4
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_5
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_6
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_7
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_8
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_9
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_10
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_11
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_1
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_2
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_4
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_5
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_6
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_8
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_9
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_10
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_11
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_12
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_13
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_14
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_15
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_16
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_17
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_18
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_19
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_21
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_22
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_23
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_24
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_25
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_26
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_27
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_28
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_29
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_1
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_2
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_3
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_4
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_5
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_6
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_8
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_9
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_10
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_11
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_1
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_2
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_3
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_4
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_5
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_7
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_8
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_9
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_10
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_11
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_12
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_13
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_14
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_15
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_16
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_17
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_18
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_19
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_20
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_21

StillWater
01-03-2020, 01:16 PM
Ashkenazi_Russia are clearly those who dont know where their ancestors are from within the Russian Empire( Jews weren't allowed to live in almost all of modern Russia, but in territories previously in Belarus and Ukraine- i.e Velizh and Lubavichi) However, this normally implies they're not galitzianers.

Dewsloth
01-03-2020, 05:20 PM
I've put these samples into the Global25.

Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_1
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_2
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_3
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_4
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_5
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_6
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_7
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_8
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_9
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_10
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_11
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_12
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_13
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_1
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_2
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_3
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_4
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_5
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_6
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_8
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_9
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_10
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_11
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_1
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_2
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_3
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_4
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_5
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_6
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_7
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_8
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_9
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_10
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_11
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_1
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_2
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_4
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_5
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_6
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_8
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_9
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_10
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_11
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_12
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_13
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_14
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_15
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_16
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_17
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_18
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_19
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_21
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_22
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_23
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_24
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_25
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_26
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_27
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_28
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_29
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_1
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_2
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_3
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_4
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_5
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_6
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_8
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_9
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_10
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_11
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_1
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_2
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_3
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_4
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_5
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_7
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_8
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_9
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_10
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_11
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_12
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_13
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_14
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_15
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_16
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_17
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_18
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_19
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_20
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_21

Well, now I don't look most like a Southern Italian, anymore :lol:

Distance to: Dewsloth_scaled
0.02349802 Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_4
0.02412088 Italian_Abruzzo:Alp162
0.02429335 Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo19
0.02489065 Italian_Abruzzo:Alp140
0.02497281 Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_15
0.02499288 Italian_Marche:MarACY030D
0.02523665 Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_10
0.02558855 Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_5
0.02696945 Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_10
0.02731019 Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_3
0.02737957 Italian_Campania:NaN119AMR
0.02747510 Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_11
0.02753564 Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_20
0.02756140 Italian_Basilicata:PG17
0.02762565 Italian_Campania:CMP_b009_2
0.02812097 Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_12
0.02829251 Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_3
0.02832544 Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_2
0.02870291 Italian_Molise:PG27
0.02893491 Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_10
0.02916224 Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_12

Claudio
01-03-2020, 05:33 PM
I don't know how we missed that, but there was a recent publication of a study last year which deals with something many of us have been discussing here, especially in the Western Jews mega-thread.

Substructured population growth in the Ashkenazi Jews inferred with Approximate Bayesian Computation (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/467761v1.full)
Abstract"The Ashkenazi Jews (AJ) are a population isolate that have resided in Central Europe since at least the 10th century and share ancestry with both European and Middle Eastern populations. Between the 11th and 16th centuries, AJ expanded eastward leading to two culturally distinct communities, one in central Europe and one in eastern Europe. Our aim was to determine if there are genetically distinct AJ subpopulations that reflect the cultural groups, and if so, what demographic events contributed to the population differentiation. We used Approximate Bayesian Computation (ABC) to choose among models of AJ history and infer demographic parameter values, including divergence times, effective population size, and gene flow. For the ABC analysis we used allele frequency spectrum and identical by descent based statistics to capture information on a wide timescale. We also mitigated the effects of ascertainment bias when performing ABC on SNP array data by jointly modeling and inferring the SNP discovery. We found that the most likely model was population differentiation between the Eastern and Western AJ ~400 years ago. The differentiation between the Eastern and Western AJ could be attributed to more extreme population growth in the Eastern AJ (0.25 per generation) than the Western AJ (0.069 per generation)."

Basically, they've found that the reasons for the substructure between Western and Eastern Ashkenazim is the result of the fast population growth among Eastern Ashkenazim, rather than some non-Ashkenazi or European population influx.

They've also found another quite amazing thing - that the North European admixture event among Western and Eastern Ashkenazi is the same, ie that Eastern Ashkenazi Jews do not have extra Eastern European admixture compare to Western Ashkenazi Jews. They explain this could either be the result of extensive geneflow between Eastern and Western Ashkenazim, or that indeed there was only one source for that North European admixture. Quite groundbreaking.

Here are the three proposed models they've tested for the different split and European admixtures among Western and Eastern AJ, and from all these three found that Model 2 is the most accurate one:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/11/11/467761/F1.medium.gif

They've also again found no trace of Khazar admixture in Eastern Ashkenazim (they mention Elhaik's study).

The PCA they publish is also quite interesting, as it shows that Eastern Ashkenazim are actually closer to other non-Ashkenazi Western Jews, and Western Ashkenazim are more genetically isolated:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/11/11/467761/F2.large.jpg?width=800&height=600&carousel=1

I mentioned recently on other thread, I’ve been gradually ploughing through Paul Johnson’s History of the Jews,but I’ve also always been keeping an eye on anything I come across which might be applicable to historical admixture or any differentiating history of Western vs Eastern Ashkenazim etc etc..
A while ago we discussed that on average there is no real genetic difference between Western and Eastern Ashkenazim and that any East Euro admixture is just as prevalent in Western as Eastern Ashkenazim etc etc..
Reading the article of the study above that you shared combined with what I’ve been reading of late is this:
We Know French Jewish communities came to England in 1066 with William the Conqueror,and that in 1290 king Edward the 1st expulsed all the Jews of England,more expulsions in France,then the various Crusades and massacre’s pushing remaining population East no longer living in France or Germany.
As far as I can see Ashkenazim only started to come back to Western Europe in the 1500’s as we know Ashkenazim had there own large community in Venice already in 1516 and although the Khmelnytsky uprising of 1648 was the real catalyst for Ashkenazim to come back to France & Germany there must of been earlier migrations in 1500’s.
Anyway from what I have read it seems this wave of opportunistic Ashkenazim of 1500’s to 1700’s seem to be the base of Western Ashkenazim where as Eastern Ashkenazim stayed in the East eventually getting a raw deal when Russia annexed big chunk of Poland with Tsarist’s more or less bringing back the Medieval Jewish ghetto of Western Europe in regard to wealth rights and persecution etc etc..
Which essentially leaves both Western and Eastern Ashkenazim culturally different (emancipation in West) but essentially genetically the same.
This also explains why Eastern euro admixture is equally distributed amongst Western & Eastern Ashkenazim.
Going forward what would really help to establish this chain of events is if we had access to the DNA results of those 12th/13th century Jewish bodies found at bottom of Well in Norwich England as there lack of East euro admixture would both confirm Rhineland theory and place another nail in Elhaiks Coffin ;)

StillWater
01-04-2020, 12:22 AM
I've put these samples into the Global25.

Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_1
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_2
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_3
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_4
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_5
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_6
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_7
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_8
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_9
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_10
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_11
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_12
Ashkenazi_Belarussia:Ashk_BY_BY_13
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_1
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_2
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_3
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_4
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_5
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_6
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_8
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_9
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_10
Ashkenazi_Germany:Ashk_DE_DE_11
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_1
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_2
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_3
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_4
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_5
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_6
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_7
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_8
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_9
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_10
Ashkenazi_Lithuania:Ashk_LT_LT_11
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_1
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_2
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_4
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_5
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_6
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_8
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_9
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_10
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_11
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_12
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_13
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_14
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_15
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_16
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_17
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_18
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_19
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_21
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_22
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_23
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_24
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_25
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_26
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_27
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_28
Ashkenazi_Poland:Ashk_PL_PL_29
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_1
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_2
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_3
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_4
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_5
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_6
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_8
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_9
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_10
Ashkenazi_Russia:Ashk_RU_RU_11
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_1
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_2
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_3
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_4
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_5
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_7
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_8
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_9
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_10
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_11
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_12
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_13
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_14
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_15
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_16
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_17
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_18
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_19
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_20
Ashkenazi_Ukraine:Ashk_UA_UA_21

I wonder how they labeled them. If they're American Jews, I can imagine it went like this: "Oh, one of my grandparents was born near Minsk" => Ashkenazi_Belarussia. If not and they are entirely from these countries, then we finally have more narrow categories.

StillWater
01-04-2020, 12:28 AM
Distance to: Me_scaled
0.01781126 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.02074648 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.02172150 Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.02237487 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.02387173 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.02411435 Ashkenazi_Ukraine

I quit.

hartaisarlag
01-04-2020, 03:39 AM
I'm looking at this PCA from the study above and if Eastern Ashkenazi are the more bottlenecked ones, why do Western Ashkenazi Jews occupy one end of the PCA's spectrum?

Naively: maybe itís that Eastern Ashkenazim have extra minor Middle Eastern (Mizrahi, Romaniote) and European (Slavic) ancestry, on top of a Rhineland Ashkenazi base?

StillWater
01-04-2020, 03:51 AM
Naively: maybe it’s that Eastern Ashkenazim have extra minor Middle Eastern (Mizrahi, Romaniote) and European (Slavic) ancestry, on top of a Rhineland Ashkenazi base?

Join Team KNAAN!

StillWater
01-04-2020, 04:21 AM
Modeled the following on the Ashkenazi avg (of 500 academic samples), Iraqi Jew, and Samaritan (to lessen the chance that a generic Levant shift is mistaken for Mizrachi admixture), and Dai:

Target: S_scaled
Distance: 2.6846% / 0.02684645
84.6 AJ_average_scaled
14.4 Iraqi_Jew
1.0 Dai

Target: Me_scaled
Distance: 1.7579% / 0.01757865
81.4 AJ_average_scaled
10.2 Samaritan
7.0 Iraqi_Jew
1.4 Dai

Target: Ashkenazi_Ukraine
Distance: 0.4948% / 0.00494767
99.8 AJ_average_scaled
0.2 Dai

Target: Ashkenazi_Russia
Distance: 0.5506% / 0.00550614
99.2 AJ_average_scaled
0.8 Dai

Target: Ashkenazi_Poland
Distance: 0.4485% / 0.00448511
96.6 AJ_average_scaled
3.4 Samaritan

Target: Ashkenazi_Lithuania
Distance: 0.7196% / 0.00719600
95.8 AJ_average_scaled
3.6 Iraqi_Jew
0.6 Dai

Target: Ashkenazi_Germany
Distance: 1.3542% / 0.01354222
85.4 AJ_average_scaled
14.6 Samaritan

Target: Ashkenazi_Belarussia
Distance: 0.8982% / 0.00898243
99.6 AJ_average_scaled
0.4 Dai

StillWater
01-04-2020, 04:32 AM
I'm betting that the Russian Jew is a Litvak (ordered by Iraqi Jew):

https://i.imgur.com/UBNxew3.png

eolien
01-04-2020, 02:08 PM
I created a PCA map based on this samples, removed the italians, malta, green and red ashkenazi in order to have a clear view and zoomed on the ashkenazi part.



https://i.postimg.cc/PJd5FrZF/Ashkenazi-last.png (https://postimg.cc/47FGYGWz)

Agamemnon
01-04-2020, 04:39 PM
Added the new Ashkenazi samples to my G25-based PCA:

https://i.imgur.com/T9Wp3fx.png

Removed not only most Italian and Greek populations that fall within the East Med continuum, but also the ancient samples which overlap too closely with the Ashkenazi samples:

https://i.imgur.com/ZreM524.png

Close up:

https://i.imgur.com/6mih5Yp.png

All the Eastern Ashkenazi clusters strongly overlap with each other. We're seeing a pretty neat Western Jewish continuum extending from North African Jews to Eastern Ashkenazim. Yet again, I think the difference between Eastern and Western Ashkenazim is overstated, and the study does a good job demonstrating that it hasn't got much to do with additional European admixture in Eastern Ashkenazim (something which isn't at all clear). I do question the logic behind splitting Ashkenazim according to the country they hail from in Eastern Europe, I sense a divide between Livtak, Galitzianer, etc would yield more interesting patterns.

Seabass
01-05-2020, 03:50 AM
I'm pretty certain ItalyJew6, SephardicJew24032 & SephardicJew24392 have pretty recent Ashkenazi Jewish admixture. The 2 Sephardic outliers are unlikely over 50% Ashkenazi Jewish. Doesn't make them any less Turkish or Bulgarian Jewish.

I created these below for both after excluding the outliers.

Italian_Jew_Removed_AJ_Outlier,0.093840667,0.14634 9222,-0.019819667,-0.058247667,0.011386444,-0.024914111,-0.004386667,-0.003102222,0.013066889,0.019742333,0.004871556,0. 000583,0.001404111,-0.003440444,-0.006952,-0.001974111,-0.002071667,-0.001069778,-0.001075444,-0.003835222,-0.003743667,-0.001332667,2.22E-07,0.002356333,0.002967222

Sephardic_Jew_Removed_AJ_Outliers2,0.0907168,0.146 4396,-0.0232305,-0.0598842,0.0059087,-0.0211119,-0.00517,-0.0032306,0.0109215,0.0202827,0.0034428,0.0006146, 0.0005648,-0.0008808,-0.004343,-0.0062848,-0.0076664,-0.0005954,-0.0020363,-0.0058779,-0.0041676,-0.0047853,0.0019226,0.001180906,0.0025027

Below is pretty over-fitted I'm sure but done more just for fun. My mum used to never score any Ashkenazi in these models but does with the new German Jewish group.

35741

StillWater
01-05-2020, 04:00 AM
I'm pretty certain ItalyJew6, SephardicJew24032 & SephardicJew24392 have pretty recent Ashkenazi Jewish admixture. The 2 Sephardic outliers are unlikely over 50% Ashkenazi Jewish. Doesn't make them any less Turkish or Bulgarian Jewish.

I created these below for both after excluding the outliers.

Italian_Jew_Removed_AJ_Outlier,0.093840667,0.14634 9222,-0.019819667,-0.058247667,0.011386444,-0.024914111,-0.004386667,-0.003102222,0.013066889,0.019742333,0.004871556,0. 000583,0.001404111,-0.003440444,-0.006952,-0.001974111,-0.002071667,-0.001069778,-0.001075444,-0.003835222,-0.003743667,-0.001332667,2.22E-07,0.002356333,0.002967222

Sephardic_Jew_Removed_AJ_Outliers2,0.0907168,0.146 4396,-0.0232305,-0.0598842,0.0059087,-0.0211119,-0.00517,-0.0032306,0.0109215,0.0202827,0.0034428,0.0006146, 0.0005648,-0.0008808,-0.004343,-0.0062848,-0.0076664,-0.0005954,-0.0020363,-0.0058779,-0.0041676,-0.0047853,0.0019226,0.001180906,0.0025027

What makes you think they have recent Ashkenazi ancestry?

Seabass
01-05-2020, 04:07 AM
What makes you think they have recent Ashkenazi ancestry?

If you model them with a North African and Eastern European populations you notice they show too little North African, but more importantly Eastern European populations which never pop among the other Western Jewish samples.

StillWater
01-05-2020, 04:09 AM
If you model them with a North African and Eastern European populations you notice they show too little North African, but more importantly Eastern European populations which never pop among the other Western Jewish samples.

Which East Euro populations? This is all depends on the other references. The Egyptian Karaites for some reason keep showing East Euro admixture as well.

Seabass
01-05-2020, 04:15 AM
Which East Euro populations? This is all depends on the other references. The Egyptian Karaites for some reason keep showing East Euro admixture as well.

Any from modern Polish, Lithuanian to Baltic Medieval or Russian Medieval I sometimes use. Eitherway, I think this kind of admixture is very minimal otherwise in Ashkenazi Jews, the same way Iberian may be in Sephardic Jews. Look at the last bottom 3 samples in the chart below.

35742