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AdolfoEsq
01-13-2020, 05:22 PM
I tested on 23&me and it said my paternal haplogroup was I-F2642. I’ve been able to trace to my great grandfather living in the Mexican state of Coahuila but that’s is as far as I have gotten. I live in south Texas, and can trace my paternal mother’s side easily, which has the Anglo dna and my mother’s which is according to 23&me Native American. I’ve done gedmatch and it is:


https://imgur.com/a/W0fSrGp

Any ideas as how I got this haplogroup?
My surname is Esquivel.

spruithean
01-13-2020, 05:52 PM
I tested on 23&me and it said my paternal haplogroup was I-F2642. I’ve been able to trace to my great grandfather living in the Mexican state of Coahuila but that’s is as far as I have gotten. I live in south Texas, and can trace my paternal mother’s side easily, which has the Anglo dna and my mother’s which is according to 23&me Native American. I’ve done gedmatch and it is:


https://imgur.com/a/W0fSrGp

Any ideas as how I got this haplogroup?
My surname is Esquivel.

Firstly, welcome to Anthrogenica, and welcome to the I1 family.

I'm also underneath the F2642 branch.

To answer your question as to how your family line wound up being I-F2642, there are a number of possibilities. Possible non-paternal events at some point in the past (not saying in your known family tree, just at some point), these could be through secret adoptions, fostering, etc. It's also possible that your Y-line traces back to the Iberian peninsula and more specifically to the Germanic migrants, Visigoths (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigoths), and Suebi (Suevi) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suebi#Suevian_Kingdom_of_Gallaecia) who settled and founded kingdoms in the Iberian peninsula. These Germanic migrants came from further afield, initially from Northern Europe.

I should also mention the Vandals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandals#In_Hispania) who had a relatively brief presence in Spain before moving to North Africa. They could also be a potential route for I-F2642.

ADW_1981
01-13-2020, 06:41 PM
Spaniards do carry I1, just not nearly as frequently as R1b for instance. The specific scenario within Iberia is not clear for I1, it's not even clear for any given Spaniard carrying a R1b haplotype.

AdolfoEsq
01-13-2020, 10:35 PM
Thanks for the welcome. I have been tracing my paternal family tree and it gets confusing for a newbie like me because Hispanic families use the mother’s maiden name as a middle name or part of the last name. So I have potential links but I can’t be for sure. So far none have led to Spain just further into Mexico.

spruithean
01-14-2020, 01:29 AM
Thanks for the welcome. I have been tracing my paternal family tree and it gets confusing for a newbie like me because Hispanic families use the mother’s maiden name as a middle name or part of the last name. So I have potential links but I can’t be for sure. So far none have led to Spain just further into Mexico.

In the future, if you are interested you can take some Y-DNA tests from FamilyTreeDNA and you could compare your results to other Y-chromosomes in the database and you could find distant (or not so distant) direct paternal line relatives.

AdolfoEsq
01-14-2020, 09:32 PM
I’ll have to wait for a sale or birthday. I took a 23&me test and on my birthday was gifted an ancestry.com, one that is in the process of getting the dna extracted.

ArmandoR1b
01-15-2020, 12:59 PM
Thanks for the welcome. I have been tracing my paternal family tree and it gets confusing for a newbie like me because Hispanic families use the mother’s maiden name as a middle name or part of the last name. So I have potential links but I can’t be for sure. So far none have led to Spain just further into Mexico.

Women in Mexico, Spain, and Spanish speaking Latin America keep their surname even after marriage so there is no maiden name in those countries. It is only in the United States that Hispanic families use the mother’s paternal name as a middle name. I have no idea who chose to begin using that format in the United States.

In Mexico, Spain, and Spanish speaking Latin America the format is the name-paternal surname-maternal surname. For example, in Mexico the official name of Guillermo del Toro is Guillermo del Toro Gómez being the son of Federico del Toro and Guadalupe Gómez. The president of Spain is Pedro Sánchez Pérez-Castejón son of Pedro Sánchez and Magdalena Pérez-Castejón. The birth and marriage records will usually mention just the paternal surname of the person but also mention the father's name-paternal-surname and mother's name-paternal surname (remember there is no maiden name so that surname is the surname the mother was born with). That can be different for records prior to the independence of Mexico from Spain when at times some people would honor a maternal ancestor and use that surname but that was more the exception than the rule.

Coahuila didn't name the grandparents in the church records like some other states in Mexico did which makes genealogy harder for that region. Additionally, there are a lot of birth and marriage records that have been lost. If those two problems weren't the case then the absence of the use of maiden names in Mexico would actually make genealogy in Mexico easy. The church dispensation records which were waivers for 3rd and 4th cousins to be allowed to be married in the church sometimes also help with genealogy and clarify the unusual cases of surname changes. Still, proving the ancestry to Spain, or Portugal, even for Mexicans with well documented ancestry can be hard. However, the autosomal DNA of Mexicans and the documented history of Mexico show that the majority of the European DNA in Mexico, for families that trace to the colonial period, is from the Iberian Peninsula with a small percentage from other countries such as Italy.

Genealogy doesn't prove ancestry though. You need a lot of people with well documented ancestry back to a common ancestor to also get a Big Y or similar test to prove the ancestry to same common ancestor. Just getting Big Y yourself, or STR testing from FTDNA, normally won't be enough. For example, there are 0 people at FTDNA that show the country of origin of their most distant ancestor as Mexico, Spain, or Portugal that are positive for I-F2642 or or one of it's subclades. To see that go to https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/I;name=I-F2642 then go to that line then go to the far right then left-click on the three dot menu then click on Country Report then look at the countries that show up. That means that none of the people at FTDNA that have had SNP testing, of any kind, and have tested positive for I-F2642 or a downstream SNP show their most distant ancestor to be from Mexico, Spain or Portugal. So if there is someone at FTDNA that shares your direct paternal ancestry they have it listed as unknown, another country, or they haven't had advanced SNP testing.

If you go to the Mexico DNA project Y-DNA report (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/GenealogyofMexicoDNAProject?iframe=yresults) you can see people that have ancestry from Mexico that have had Y-DNA testing and have joined the project (there are also some people there that don't have ancestry from Mexico) The people that have I-M253 in red have not had any SNP testing but they have had STR testing which is why you see the STR values. I-M253 is in red to identify it as being a predicted haplogroup based on the STR values. One of those could actually be positive for I-F2642 but FTDNA doesn't know it because they haven't had SNP testing at FTDNA. It is possible, that if you were to get an STR test or Big Y test you could match a person from Mexico, Spain, or Latin America through the STR markers but the likelihood is low, although possible, that it would be a match at the 111 STR level which is what is needed for the match to be genealogically relevant. You should still get an STR test or a Big Y test so that you can find out and if no match to at least be in the database so that once someone else that shares common ancestry with you also tests you can see the match.

If you go upstream to I-Z141 (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/I;name=I-Z141) in the FTDNA public haplotree Spain and Portugal shows up at a low rate but most subgroups of a haplogroup would be a low rate but especially so with a haplogroup that is at a low rate in the Iberian peninsula anyway. Only 2,154 people with an ancestor from Spain in the direct paternal line have had an SNP test at FTDNA. Of those, 108 are positive for I-M253. So supposedly I-M253 is about 5% of people with direct paternal ancestry from Spain. So I-M253 does exist in Spain at a low rate which means your direct paternal ancestor could be from Spain. The problem is that there are too few people from Mexico, Spain and Latin America that get advanced STR and SNP testing from FTDNA.

Something you can do in the meantime is go to https://you.23andme.com/tools/relatives/#people?filter[queries][]=I-F2642 It will list your DNA relatives at 23andme that share your Y-DNA haplogroup. You can message them to see if they know their ancestry and if they have a tree they are willing to share. You might learn something from that process even if they don't share a direct paternal ancestor with you.

AdolfoEsq
01-15-2020, 03:54 PM
Thanks for the heads up on the family names. I have been having a hard time finding information on my paternal grandfathers side of the family, given what I do know of their history. There have been issues with my fathers side of the family because his great grandfather from his mother’s side was half white and then my mother told me when I asked if she knew anything about my paternal grandfathers side of the family just casually mentioned something. She said my grandmother would tell her husband that she had an affair with a white doctor. My grandmother was a mean woman and would say hurtful things to everybody.


My dad was born with blonde hair and blue eyes but later transitioned to light brown hair and hazel eyes. He didn’t bear that much of a resemblance to his brothers and from what pics I’ve seen of my grandfather he didn’t look much like him either. On 23&me there is a lady listed as a second cousin who is completely white and the dna shared is at 3.48% shared. I have contacted her but she has not responded. Like I said my grandmother was not nice and she could have been lying a out having an affair.


I’m hoping that with the ancestry.com test I’ll be able to see my paternal cousins pop up since they have taken that dna test only. On 23&me I have a lot of my mother’s family on it plus a few second cousins ruin my dad’s side. I share about the same amount of dna as I do with the mystery lady, whose niece and nephews do pop up as relations to me albeit farther away.


I only mentioned the sordid family thing because other than my sister no one else on 23&me has the same Y dna haplogroup, and that’s only because I took the test and therefore it showed up for my sister.

AdolfoEsq
01-15-2020, 04:04 PM
And I should add phenotypes don’t mean much since my dad looked white but I get confused as being an Asian 90% of the time. I only added that because it could mean something or it could not about my fathers parentage.


Adding to this since I felt I was reaching. The mystery lady who is a second cousin could be from my paternal grandmothers side of the family as explained, that my father’s mother was the daughter of a half white man. My father loved his dad a lot and my grandfather loved me a lot as a baby. I was told how much he loved me and have pictures of he and I together. So I rather not believe the story my grandmother cheated on him but it is a possibility. That is all.