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dallitt
01-26-2014, 01:42 AM
Just wondering if anyone can tell me anything about H15. It seems hard to get information on. Thanks dallitt

Mehrdad
01-26-2014, 03:11 AM
Just wondering if anyone can tell me anything about H15. It seems hard to get information on. Thanks dallitt

This is the only article I can find about H15 on Palisto's site

http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2012/07/kurdish-haplogroup-h15.html

T101
01-27-2014, 08:44 AM
Just wondering if anyone can tell me anything about H15. It seems hard to get information on. Thanks dallitt

Hi Dallit. I'm H15b and my maternal line descends from the Netherlands.

Mtdna H15 is a very rare, yet widespread clade ranging from Western Europe to the Middle East, and from Central Asia to India.

Maciamo Hay of Eupedia identifies the H15 clade with the Indo-Europeans and specifically yDna R1b. "R1b1b correlates best with mt-haplogroups: H5a, H7, H8, H15, I1a1, J1b1a, K1a3, K1c2, K2a6, U5 and some V subclades (like V15). Minor mt-haplogroups also include U3 and X2."

Maciamo goes on to add this about H15, "a rare subclade found in Scotland, Germany, Poland, Austria, Northern Italy, Central Asia (Turkmenistan), Iran and northern India.

dallitt
01-28-2014, 03:28 AM
Thank you for that information. This is my husband's MtDNA. His mother is Welsh Jewish on her maternal line so I wondered if her ancestors had migrated from Europe. I contacted a American who had posted on Kurdishdna and he too is H15. He has had the full test and found he was connected to a Ukrainean Jewish lady living in Israel. I don't have the spare cash to go any further into testing at the moment but I may in the future.

Palisto
01-28-2014, 07:34 AM
Thank you for that information. This is my husband's MtDNA. His mother is Welsh Jewish on her maternal line so I wondered if her ancestors had migrated from Europe. I contacted a American who had posted on Kurdishdna and he too is H15. He has had the full test and found he was connected to a Ukrainean Jewish lady living in Israel. I don't have the spare cash to go any further into testing at the moment but I may in the future.

Analyze the mtDNA raw data with this tool:
http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/

newtoboard
01-28-2014, 12:29 PM
Hi Dallit. I'm H15b and my maternal line descends from the Netherlands.

Mtdna H15 is a very rare, yet widespread clade ranging from Western Europe to the Middle East, and from Central Asia to India.

Maciamo Hay of Eupedia identifies the H15 clade with the Indo-Europeans and specifically yDna R1b. "R1b1b correlates best with mt-haplogroups: H5a, H7, H8, H15, I1a1, J1b1a, K1a3, K1c2, K2a6, U5 and some V subclades (like V15). Minor mt-haplogroups also include U3 and X2."

Maciamo goes on to add this about H15, "a rare subclade found in Scotland, Germany, Poland, Austria, Northern Italy, Central Asia (Turkmenistan), Iran and northern India.

What does he not associate with Indo Europeans? I don't agree with the idea that anything common across South/Central/West Asia and Europe is Indo-European in origin. Some of these lineages could have expanded in the Mesolithic, Neolithic and with IE tribes. I also don't agree with the association of ydna and mtdna especially given the dominance of R1b and R1a in Western and Eastern Europe. Just about anything more common in Western Europe will be associated with R1b even if it was there before R1b (and likewise for anything more common in Eastern Europe). The fact that there is no R1b in South Asia should make the association between H15 and R1b look weak. No need to associate this lineage with any ydna and last I recall H13, H14 and H15 are most frequent and diverse in West Asia.

T101
01-29-2014, 03:23 AM
Hi Newtoboard.

Glad to have you chiming in about H15 and I appreciate your insights. You've certainly come along way in a couple of years from newb, to what I consider one of the best on this forum with an outstanding knowledge of everything from autosomal Dna to yDna. Yet, what I appreciate most about your remarks is that you have original thoughts and ideas, and aren't just rehashing and regurgitating Mallory and Anthony like so many else do on this forum.

That's why I find your attack on Maciamo a bit suprising. Here is one of the most original and best analysts on these forums. Maciamo is always well-versed on the subject at hand, and is someone who is often years ahead of everyone else in his assessment of the genetic landscape (look at C6 and La Brana 1 for instance.)


What does he not associate with Indo Europeans? Plenty. Please take a few minutes to review his latest assessment of the subject over at Eupedia. Anyhow, that's where you should be leveling your critique. Maciamo is always open and willing to debate.



No need to associate this lineage with any ydna

On the contrary, I find it perfectly reasonable to start associating these mtdna clades with ydna. It's a logical and natural progression which paints a more complete picture. Granted, it is a complex puzzle and will need further refinement as we acquire new knowledge.



The fact that there is no R1b in South Asia should make the association between H15 and R1b look weak.

Not at all. We both agree on Yamnaya harboring both R1b and R1a. Is it so far-fetched to see two tribes trading women or an R1a tribe raiding and capturing women from their neighbor. Is it unreasonable to see H15 connected to the West Asian Highlands and R1b- P25, and R1b-P297. I do agree that some of these H lineages could've expanded earlier with Mesolithic peoples or Neolithic farmers, but at this time, given the current evidence, I believe this to be the best explanation.




last I recall H13, H14 and H15 are most frequent and diverse in West Asia.

I don't know about H13 or H14, but H15 is most diverse in Europe (Italy.)



Just about anything more common in Western Europe will be associated with R1b even if it was there before R1b (and likewise for anything more common in Eastern Europe).

That's a good point, but one that should be addressed with Maciamo. Also, perhaps we should start a general discussion thread about associating mtDna with yDna on the general boards and leave this thread to just H15.

newtoboard
01-29-2014, 12:54 PM
Not at all. We both agree on Yamnaya harboring both R1b and R1a. Is it so far-fetched to see two tribes trading women or an R1a tribe raiding and capturing women from their neighbor. Is it unreasonable to see H15 connected to the West Asian Highlands and R1b- P25, and R1b-P297. I do agree that some of these H lineages could've expanded earlier with Mesolithic peoples or Neolithic farmers, but at this time, given the current evidence, I believe this to be the best explanation.

Thanks for the compliments. I will try and reply to the rest of your post once I have had time to think it over and write a well thought out response.

Regarding the above how could we possibly know which group had this lineage? It might have originally been present among a R1a or R1b group but became more frequent and diverse in modern groups carrying the other one for whatever reason. Frequency and diversity don't count for much because multiple sources of a lineage among modern R1a and R1b populations could inflate diversity. The case of U2 in South Asia is a prime example of this. Plus IMO this lineage could have easily had some North Caucasian source which is why it has such a broad distribution.

Plus where is the consistency? H5 appeared on the list of lineages with R1b but this lineage is found at trace frequencies all over Europe and seems to be particularly well represented among Western Caucasus populations like Georgians and the Western Caucasus has a small amount of R1b compared to the Eastern and South-Central Caucasus. H8 also appeared on the list despite its distribution being Eastern European-Caucasian and Central Asian.

Does he think P297 or P25 is associated with the West Asian highlands? I know some people think they originated on the steppe.

T101
09-22-2014, 02:24 AM
Our first famous member of H15 and it is none other than Napoleon Bonaparte.

"Lucotte et al. (2010) recovered the DNA of Napoleon Bonaparte from beard hair follicles and compared it to that of his mother, Letizia, and his younger sister Caroline. All three shared the same rare 16184T mutation, which places them within H15a1b."(Eupedia)

Susy
06-11-2016, 08:43 AM
Hi T101 I know this is an old thread, but there is so little info on H15b and I found this conversation. I am not an anthro person like you guys, I have a very amateur knowledge level, but a lot of interest. But I am also H15b. If you'd like to share any info you've learned about this group, I'd love to know more. Thanks! :)

RBerson
03-20-2017, 04:06 PM
Through 23andme, found out I am H15b. So just wanted to say hello.

I am US American for several generations. Great grandparents came from Minsk in what is now Belarus. We are Ashkenazic Jews. All I know.

T101
07-01-2017, 03:09 AM
Two more H15 from Armenia to report on from the study: Eight Millenia of Matrileneal Genetic Continuity in the South Caucasus by Margayan and Derenko et al. 2017.

H15a1 5900-5600 BC Aknashen Armenia

H15a1a1 1400-1200 BC Nerqin Aknashen Armenia

iorlova
07-05-2017, 02:26 PM
Hi, I am also Ashkenazi Jewish and from Ukraine. Just found out I am H15B!

T101
07-05-2017, 06:39 PM
Hi Iorlova. Welcome to Anthrogenica and welcome to the H15 family! H15b is a small group yet widely distributed and diverse ranging from India, to the West Asian highlands and the Low Countries of Western Europe ( most likely of Indo -European origin.)

An H15b was recently reported back in Feb of 2017 in a 9th and 10th century Magyar graveyard. It was classified however not as a Magyar but as a Germano-Scandinavian! We do like to travel and get about!:P

marjorie2834
11-15-2017, 01:27 PM
I am managing my father-in-law's kit, and he is from the Punjab: H15a1. He has no matches at any level at FTDNA (full sequence). It seems to be quite rare. I wanted to write up something for him, but I am finding it hard to discover any specific information beyond the generalities about H. And telling him that H15a1 being quite rare. It is good to see that H15 is considered associated with India, at least, because my initial (uninformed) reaction was that H's are mostly European.

Gabry
03-04-2018, 08:11 PM
Hi! I’m an albanian and i found my mtdna to be H15 without any further subclades ... my mother’s mother is from south Albania(Coriza)

AuntSara
05-25-2018, 03:30 AM
wow, my DNA also has 16184T mutation. needless to say my maternal branch is H15a1b. I guess that makes Napoleon my cousin :biggrin1:

jmukerji
08-23-2020, 08:09 PM
I am born in West Bengal, India. I found out that I am H15b1 through Geno 2.0, FTDNA and Ancestry. Of course I am curious to learn more about my Haplogroup, and there is very little information available as far as I can tell.

Parry
01-04-2021, 05:22 PM
Ok so H15 was probably associated and spread by the Indo-Europeans. However, Maciamo has several conflicting messages (to me) on his europedia page. Is it from Anatolia or the Caucaus? Given it's occurance I would probably say pontic-caucaus (note it seems to be very rare in the non Indo European Middle East), whereas many haplogroups from Anatolia are at least somewhat common in the Arab World.

Sara66
02-25-2021, 03:15 PM
Hi,

My mtDNA is H15 and I'm from Iraq. However, I've thought that it's a Jewish Haplogroup.