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chocoholic
02-03-2020, 11:56 PM
I noticed that on my GEDMatch Eurogenes K13, my primary population in the Oracle is 75-80% Southeast English. My European heritage is primarily English, Scottish, Irish and south German, so I’m assuming that when averaged out the principal components lie somewhere around southeast England. I’ve been reading about Germanic and French invasions of southeast England, which would explain why many Brits have French-sounding surnames. I noticed that “Southeast English” seemed to be more continental-European shifted than the rest of England on the K13 spreadsheet, so would this be due to those invasions in the Middle Ages?

spruithean
02-04-2020, 12:09 AM
Yes. Anglo-Saxons, Norsemen, Normans, Flemings, Dutch, Huguenots, etc

spruithean
02-04-2020, 02:11 AM
Actually as an extra comment, I would imagine that Eastern England has more Germanic ancestry. Pretty sure that was covered in POBI and other papers.

chocoholic
02-04-2020, 06:26 AM
Actually as an extra comment, I would imagine that Eastern England has more Germanic ancestry. Pretty sure that was covered in POBI and other papers.

Where can I find the link to the research?

Cunobelinus_T
02-04-2020, 11:09 AM
Where can I find the link to the research?

Hi chocoholic... the best place to start is the People of the British Isles Project homepage here: https://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org

On there, you'll find both summaries of the research and links to the journal articles too. Two articles that you should read in particular, if you're interested in the genetics of the British Isles especially, are 'The fine-scale genetic structure of the British Population' and 'The Irish DNA Atlas'. Links to both articles are given under the Publications tab.

As you state that you have Scottish and Irish heritage, in addition to SE English heritage, two additional studies that have focussed on these countries but which are not linked on the POBI website are:

- Insular Celtic population structure and genomic footprints of migration: https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1007152

- The genetic landscape of Scotland and the Isles: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/38/19064

These are all good places to start if you're looking for academic research on the areas in question :-)

chocoholic
02-04-2020, 02:00 PM
Hi chocoholic... the best place to start is the People of the British Isles Project homepage here: https://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org

On there, you'll find both summaries of the research and links to the journal articles too. Two articles that you should read in particular, if you're interested in the genetics of the British Isles especially, are 'The fine-scale genetic structure of the British Population' and 'The Irish DNA Atlas'. Links to both articles are given under the Publications tab.

As you state that you have Scottish and Irish heritage, in addition to SE English heritage, two additional studies that have focussed on these countries but which are not linked on the POBI website are:

- Insular Celtic population structure and genomic footprints of migration: https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1007152

- The genetic landscape of Scotland and the Isles: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/38/19064

These are all good places to start if you're looking for academic research on the areas in question :-)

Thank you so much!!! It definitely makes sense that my 80% west European would be averaged out in southeast England, especially considering on the Eurogenes K13 spreadsheet, you can tell that the southeast England sample has more Germanic influence.

This is an oracle of a southeast English man that I found (https://paulbrooker.posthaven.com/exploring-gedmatch-eurogenes), which is logical considering what the research says about Anglo-Saxon influence in different parts of England. Notice he’s significantly closer to Germanic populations than Irish or Scottish.

1 South_Dutch 3.89
2 Southeast_English 4.35
3 West_German 5.22
4 Southwest_English 6.24
5 Orcadian 6.97
6 French 7.63
7 North_Dutch 7.76
8 Danish 7.95
9 North_German 8.17
10 Irish 8.22

rms2
02-05-2020, 11:08 PM
I think you can see it in the distribution of R1b-U106 in Britain versus the distribution of R1b-L21 there.

36253

rms2
02-05-2020, 11:09 PM
I think you can see it in the distribution of R1b-U106 in Britain versus the distribution of R1b-L21 there.

36253

Note the differences in percentages represented by the different shading for each map.

chocoholic
02-06-2020, 04:15 PM
I think you can see it in the distribution of R1b-U106 in Britain versus the distribution of R1b-L21 there.

36253

Note the differences in percentages represented by the different shading for each map.

Thank you; this is awesome! It’s interesting how British people can vary so much.

firemonkey
02-06-2020, 04:28 PM
My Lukasz ancestry report

Correlation values

1 Orkney 0,97895
2 Northern Ireland 0,97818
3 Scotland 0,97814
4 Iceland 0,97221
5 Ireland 0,97081
6 England_North-East 0,97073
7 Wales 0,97002
8 NL_Utrecht 0,96933
9 NL_Groningen 0,96906
10 Norway_west 0,96555
11 West-Midlands 0,96507
12 East_Anglia 0,9642
13 England_North-West 0,96381
14 Yorkshire&Humber 0,96331
15 England_South-West 0,96172
16 England_South-East 0,9617
17 East-Midlands 0,95955
18 West_Scottish 0,95878
19 DE Niedersachsen 0,9585
20 Norway_south-east 0,95408
21 Shetlands 0,95387

Red = non British populations above SE England .

LDNArange for SE England is 5.1 to 10% . I am not aware of any ancestry from there .

chocoholic
02-07-2020, 02:07 AM
My Lukasz ancestry report

Correlation values

1 Orkney 0,97895
2 Northern Ireland 0,97818
3 Scotland 0,97814
4 Iceland 0,97221
5 Ireland 0,97081
6 England_North-East 0,97073
7 Wales 0,97002
8 NL_Utrecht 0,96933
9 NL_Groningen 0,96906
10 Norway_west 0,96555
11 West-Midlands 0,96507
12 East_Anglia 0,9642
13 England_North-West 0,96381
14 Yorkshire&Humber 0,96331
15 England_South-West 0,96172
16 England_South-East 0,9617
17 East-Midlands 0,95955
18 West_Scottish 0,95878
19 DE Niedersachsen 0,9585
20 Norway_south-east 0,95408
21 Shetlands 0,95387

Red = non British populations above SE England .

LDNArange for SE England is 5.1 to 10% . I am not aware of any ancestry from there .

The fact that you’re from southwest England is a good indicator that you match Celtic groups more closely than Germanic groups. You cluster with Scots, Welsh and Irish more than southeast English.

firemonkey
02-07-2020, 03:16 AM
I've only lived in SW England since September 2017 . For most of the time between late 1964 and 2017 I lived in Essex( 1965-68 lived in San Francisco, 1973-5 lived in Zurich, 1984-8 lived in North Wales) .

In any case I'm not sure that where you currently live is a good indicator of your ancestry . It's very possible that my ancestry is more Celtic than Germanic , but not due to coming from SW England .

K36 Chromosome report.

2

Yorkshire&Humber 31,6

3

Scotland 25,4
Northern_Ireland 3,6

5

West-Midlands 40,4

6

West-Midlands 6,6
NE_England 4,8

7

Ireland 69
Scotland 18,4

8

SW_England 6

9

West-Midlands 3,6

Scotland 3

11

Scotland 44,6

13

Ireland 23,2


15


Yorkshire&Humber 14,2

17

Northern_Ireland 24,4
Ireland 22,4

18

West_Scottish 39,8
NE_England 6

21

Ireland 55
Scotland 13,8
West_Scottish 3

Ayetooey
02-17-2020, 12:48 AM
My mum is south East english (with some minor alleged french ancestry) but doesn't seem ultra Germanic on G25. This is with the dodgy 23andme GSA chip mind you, when her ANC dna results come through I'll do G25 again since I'm sure it'll be a little bit different. First 2 global 25, 2nd 2 k13.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/646523130688307201/678756996060676116/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/678757856593444864/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/678767177536634881/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/678767268846370816/unknown.png

rms2
02-17-2020, 04:36 PM
If the I-M253 map below is accurate, then it seems to reflect greater Germanic influence in eastern Britain, which the R1b-U106 map also reflects. Of course, British history says the same: Germanic influence in Britain moved primarily from southeast to northwest.

36416

Source: http://abbey-roots.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-genetic-atlas.html

I'm not vouching for or endorsing the source, by the way.

Melissay122
06-13-2020, 05:15 PM
Hey All,

My grandmother was from South East England and her parents and ancestors mainly have Norman origins(Rawlings,Raulings) mixed with Anglo-Saxon (except for the Macmaster Scottish we have which shows up as orcadian and argyl bute Scottish, at least I think that is right). Going by my Mtdna (H1ag)which is this line seems to be a mix of German and Scandinavian. However, at the full sequence level it puts me back to England with a GD of 1. I will say I was in a project with H1ag many had Norman/French origins ultimately.
On my Rawlins side there seems to be a big Scandinavian/Viking genetic contribution as it shows up in all the places I ran my dna file. Not sure if any of this is helpful, but I hope so ! ☺️

Saetro
06-15-2020, 11:54 PM
The POBI study is the one, but there was lots beforehand.
Including one on YDNA reported in "Blood of the Isles" Bryan Sykes, 2006 from research of a few years earlier.
Called in North America "Saxons, Vikings and Celts: The Genetic Roots of Britain and Ireland"

The POBI was in many ways a better study, but on this particular topic the Sykes and even the similar study about the same time by someone with an Italian sounding surname, both provide the answer sought by our OP.

Ayetooey
06-16-2020, 12:23 AM
The POBI study is the one, but there was lots beforehand.
Including one on YDNA reported in "Blood of the Isles" Bryan Sykes, 2006 from research of a few years earlier.
Called in North America "Saxons, Vikings and Celts: The Genetic Roots of Britain and Ireland"

The POBI was in many ways a better study, but on this particular topic the Sykes and even the similar study about the same time by someone with an Italian sounding surname, both provide the answer sought by our OP.

The Y DNA of south-east England implies an almost complete population replacement of indigenous men. According to some stats from the English Y dna project compiled here (which are a few years old granted) L21 is as low as 5% in parts of SE England like Essex. Yet the G25 average which is mainly SE English (Kent I believe) is almost identical to iron age Brythonic samples, and the one pure Essex sample I've seen plots closest to Scots. The very high frequency of Germanic Y dna doesn't match the autosomal results which has SE English very close to ancient Britons and also other modern insular Celtic nations. The only explanations I can think of is that either close to 100% of maternal lines within the region are native/pre Germanic, or that the high Germanic Y dna in SE England is due to a huge bottleneck/founder effect so doesn't mean much autosomally.

Melissay122
06-16-2020, 02:20 PM
Apologies for jumping in again but if it also helps, I am part of the British Isles DNA project http://britishislesdna.com/
Here is my GED match. (The German should be coming from my Mother's maternal line as the rest of the stuff listed is accounted for (Polish, Ukrainian, Croatian ect). Plus my mtdna points toward a strong German connection. We know via paper trail that my Great and GG and GGG all came from Hampshire area and ultimately Surrey. However, Living DNA gave my highest % as East Anglia (Norfolk UK area). I couldn't insert the ged match as a pic , but it is here as an attach if you want to look. :)

Ayetooey
06-16-2020, 02:26 PM
Apologies for jumping in again but if it also helps, I am part of the British Isles DNA project http://britishislesdna.com/
Here is my GED match. (The German should be coming from my Mother's maternal line as the rest of the stuff listed is accounted for (Polish, Ukrainian ect). Plus my mtdna points toward a strong german connection. We know via paper trail that my Great and GG and GGG all came from Hampshire area and ultimately Surrey. However, Living DNA gave my highest % as East Anglia (Norfolk UK area).

Your +2 oracles there don't have anything to do with having German descent. It just shows you have a north-west shift when compared to the Moldovian reference population, so gives you various different NW populations that represent this shift.

Dewsloth
06-16-2020, 05:44 PM
The Y DNA of south-east England implies an almost complete population replacement of indigenous men. According to some stats from the English Y dna project compiled here (which are a few years old granted) L21 is as low as 5% in parts of SE England like Essex. Yet the G25 average which is mainly SE English (Kent I believe) is almost identical to iron age Brythonic samples, and the one pure Essex sample I've seen plots closest to Scots. The very high frequency of Germanic Y dna doesn't match the autosomal results which has SE English very close to ancient Britons and also other modern insular Celtic nations. The only explanations I can think of is that either close to 100% of maternal lines within the region are native/pre Germanic, or that the high Germanic Y dna in SE England is due to a huge bottleneck/founder effect so doesn't mean much autosomally.

Seems there is a big cluster in SE England for DF19 MDKAs. I don't know how the clusters on that map correspond to general population clusters for GB, though, or specific descent trends.
38040

Melissay122
06-16-2020, 06:57 PM
Your +2 oracles there don't have anything to do with having German descent. It just shows you have a north-west shift when compared to the Moldovian reference population, so gives you various different NW populations that represent this shift.

Hi, bear with me, I am new to this and learning. I had 2 pictures attached. I thought the single population list (oracle) result was showing me the distance from these populations to me. If I am totally missing the mark then? I more than welcome any way to know how to interpret ged match correctly. Can you look at the attached please?

Also, if this is relevant. For my mtdna, the most amount of matches I had at the HRV-1 level was Germany with England second (Also Scotland and France were high). Any feedback is appreciated as I learn.

Thanks!

Ayetooey
06-16-2020, 07:17 PM
Hi, bear with me, I am new to this and learning. I had 2 pictures attached. I thought the single population list (oracle) result was showing me the distance from these populations to me. If I am totally missing the mark then? I more than welcome any way to know how to interpret ged match correctly. Can you look at the attached please?

Also, if this is relevant. For my mtdna, the most amount of matches I had at the HRV-1 level was Germany with England second (Also Scotland and France were high). Any feedback is appreciated as I learn.

Thanks!

Because you're mixed with different European ethnicities, your top +1 populations are going to be the genetic midpoint of all of your ethnicities combined, rather than what you actually are. For example I'm half central Balkan half NW European and plot near Austrians on k13, because that's the midpoint between my different ethnicities; where as my father is closest to Serbia on k13, my mother SE-England. So as a "mixed" person my +1 pop doesn't reflect my actual ancestral percentages, its just the mid point between my parents. To model yourself properly with different percentages, you're better off getting Global25 once Davidski reopens his store.

I'm not too familiar with what HRV-1 means in terms of TMRCA on Mtdna. Could be the case your maternal ancestor was Anglo-Saxon for sure.

J Man
06-16-2020, 08:22 PM
Because you're mixed with different European ethnicities, your top +1 populations are going to be the genetic midpoint of all of your ethnicities combined, rather than what you actually are. For example I'm half central Balkan half NW European and plot near Austrians on k13, because that's the midpoint between my different ethnicities; where as my father is closest to Serbia on k13, my mother SE-England. So as a "mixed" person my +1 pop doesn't reflect my actual ancestral percentages, its just the mid point between my parents. To model yourself properly with different percentages, you're better off getting Global25 once Davidski reopens his store.

I'm not too familiar with what HRV-1 means in terms of TMRCA on Mtdna. Could be the case your maternal ancestor was Anglo-Saxon for sure.

Exactly...My background is a mix of Italian (Calabria region), Finnish and Irish/British Isles and I pretty much always end up around Hungary or the Czeh Rep. when I am put on a plot.

Melissay122
06-16-2020, 10:10 PM
Because you're mixed with different European ethnicities, your top +1 populations are going to be the genetic midpoint of all of your ethnicities combined, rather than what you actually are. For example I'm half central Balkan half NW European and plot near Austrians on k13, because that's the midpoint between my different ethnicities; where as my father is closest to Serbia on k13, my mother SE-England. So as a "mixed" person my +1 pop doesn't reflect my actual ancestral percentages, its just the mid point between my parents. To model yourself properly with different percentages, you're better off getting Global25 once Davidski reopens his store.

I'm not too familiar with what HRV-1 means in terms of TMRCA on Mtdna. Could be the case your maternal ancestor was Anglo-Saxon for sure.

Hey Thank you so much ! Would Eurogenes K36 be any good until this other tool becomes available you mentioned? This makes a lot more sense now lol. For the mtdna, FT DNA states that at the HVR-1 level you have a 50% chance of having a common maternal ancestor within 52 generations or 1,300 years.

I was thinking Anglo Saxon as well, but the interesting is that in my HGs project , there is a cluster of maternal ancestors from Normandie and surrounding area (just thought to mention that).

Lastly I listed my living DNA British results and the K36 from GED match just for the hell of it lol. 38049
38050

Ayetooey
06-16-2020, 11:48 PM
Hey Thank you so much ! Would Eurogenes K36 be any good until this other tool becomes available you mentioned? This makes a lot more sense now lol. For the mtdna, FT DNA states that at the HVR-1 level you have a 50% chance of having a common maternal ancestor within 52 generations or 1,300 years.

I was thinking Anglo Saxon as well, but the interesting is that in my HGs project , there is a cluster of maternal ancestors from Normandie and surrounding area (just thought to mention that).

Lastly I listed my living DNA British results and the K36 from GED match just for the hell of it lol. 38049
38050

You are better off imputing your k13 or k15 results into Vahaduo and having a play around with different populations till you get a model which is a close fit and also fits your known ancestry. On Mtdna I am no expert, but since you have so many continental European matches on your Mtdna, your maternal line probably is probably post migration period.

http://**********************/

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19205-Gedmatch-Calculators-on-Vahaduo

Melissay122
06-17-2020, 01:12 AM
This is great , more tools to work with! Thank you :) If I may bother you with a question 2 If I get stuck, but I saw you linked me to the post with instructions. Much Appreciated !

Ayetooey
06-17-2020, 01:33 AM
This is great , more tools to work with! Thank you :) If I may bother you with a question 2 If I get stuck, but I saw you linked me to the post with instructions. Much Appreciated !

No problem if you struggle with anything you can pm me.

JerryS.
06-17-2020, 04:02 AM
I noticed that on my GEDMatch Eurogenes K13, my primary population in the Oracle is 75-80% Southeast English. My European heritage is primarily English, Scottish, Irish and south German, so I’m assuming that when averaged out the principal components lie somewhere around southeast England. I’ve been reading about Germanic and French invasions of southeast England, which would explain why many Brits have French-sounding surnames. I noticed that “Southeast English” seemed to be more continental-European shifted than the rest of England on the K13 spreadsheet, so would this be due to those invasions in the Middle Ages?

different models will give you different regions as a primary. Eurogenes gives me primary groups that bounce from S.E. English, W. German, N. German, W. Scottish even Irish. Another model gives me a primary group almost exclusively of Frisian, while another gives me Argyll/Orkney almost exclusively. then again another gives almost exclusively Utahn-white. on paper I am 25% N. German, 25% Scottish (Scotch-Irish), and 31.25% S. English (colonial-American).

msmarjoribanks
06-17-2020, 04:10 PM
Because you're mixed with different European ethnicities, your top +1 populations are going to be the genetic midpoint of all of your ethnicities combined, rather than what you actually are. For example I'm half central Balkan half NW European and plot near Austrians on k13, because that's the midpoint between my different ethnicities; where as my father is closest to Serbia on k13, my mother SE-England. So as a "mixed" person my +1 pop doesn't reflect my actual ancestral percentages, its just the mid point between my parents. To model yourself properly with different percentages, you're better off getting Global25 once Davidski reopens his store.

Exactly this. I tend to get South Dutch as my top oracle result. In reality, I'm primarily English, with some Welsh and Irish, and then Swedish, Rhineland German, and Swiss. It just averages as it does. (My dad gets top results SW England, my mom, who is a quarter Swedish, averages as North German.)


I'm not too familiar with what HRV-1 means in terms of TMRCA on Mtdna. Could be the case your maternal ancestor was Anglo-Saxon for sure.

All mtDNA results can be quite far back. My dad's mtDNA ancestor was in Suffolk in the 1500s (this is well-confirmed). He has many perfect matches who descend from the same woman (her daughter and granddaughter went to Massachusetts in 1630 and have a ton of descendants). He also has some very close matches (perfect at HRV-1) in Scandinavia.

Melissay122
06-17-2020, 06:04 PM
"All mtDNA results can be quite far back. My dad's mtDNA ancestor was in Suffolk in the 1500s (this is well-confirmed). He has many perfect matches who descend from the same woman (her daughter and granddaughter went to Massachusetts in 1630 and have a ton of descendants). He also has some very close matches (perfect at HRV-1) in Scandinavia."

My Mtdna is also my British line. My Grandmother came from Surrey. The Farthest my cousin and I can go back is Ann Wicks 1821 (GGG). Here are my hvr-1 and hvr-2/coding results.

I Interpreted the results below(HG - H1ag) as being from the UK which as I mentioned I knew via paper trail some of my foremothers were from there, lol. However, If I could get a better idea if my mtdna line was in UK for thousands of years, or my ancestor came here from continental europe. Any input is welcome.
(Ayetooy's comments about Anglo-Saxon or post migration? sounds right, but I thought to post my actual results in case I conveyed info wrong lol)

HVR-1

England 1155

France 494

Germany 1171

Ireland 925

Italy 412

Norway 218
Poland 358
Scotland 465

Sweden 240

United Kingdom 752

HVR-2

England 16

Germany 4
Ireland 14

Italy 8

Poland 4

Scotland 5

Ukraine 4

United Kingdom 4


CODING REGION
GENETIC DISTANCE -1
Country Match Total Country Total Percentage Comments
England 2 9798 < 0.1 %

GENETIC DISTANCE -2
Country Match Total Country Total Percentage Comments
England 2 9798 < 0.1 %
Lithuania 1 765 0.1%
Poland 1 3099 < 0.1 %
Russian Federation 1 2131 < 0.1 %

GENETIC DISTANCE -3
Country Match Total Country Total Percentage Comments
Austria 1 675 0.1%
Northern Ireland 1 332 0.3%
Poland 1

Melissay122
06-17-2020, 06:26 PM
@ayetooey - Here are my mtdna results in the post above per FT of ancestral origins. Based on this would your reply :
Mtdna I am no expert, but since you have so many continental European matches on your Mtdna, your maternal line probably is probably post migration period."

Still hold up? (Sorry , trying to understand this all correctly).

Ayetooey
06-17-2020, 06:46 PM
@ayetooey - Here are my mtdna results in the post above per FT of ancestral origins. Based on this would your reply :
Mtdna I am no expert, but since you have so many continental European matches on your Mtdna, your maternal line probably is probably post migration period."

Still hold up? (Sorry , trying to understand this all correctly).

Possibly since you have more German matches than English ones even. Are you in any ftdna Mtdna projects? Have the admins told you what they think?

Melissay122
06-17-2020, 07:48 PM
Possibly since you have more German matches than English ones even. Are you in any ftdna Mtdna projects? Have the admins told you what they think?

Yes I am in the H1ag and subclades project along with H1 genome. To be honest I didn't even think to reach out to one of them lol. Good idea though! The H1ag project is very small and not a lot of activity, but the activity there does state according to Behar 2013 that H1ag was roughly 4,300 years ago. A few comments state "Northern Europe" as the origin location although to me that is pretty vague. They do have a distribution map and when set to h1ag (vs for example; h1ag1) shows me, 2 from Normandie, 1 from Poland, One from Hamburg.

When the map for the project is set to all h1ag1 it is tied between Scandinavia and UK which I would think make h1ag1's founder (h1ag-me in this case) from Scandinavia. (Verses starting in the UK and migrating to Scandinavia) Does that sound logical?

There is one other posts that mentions an ancient sample of H1ag1 found in 2016 believed to have been alive about 100BCE and buried in England. Although, Wouldn't that mean a Scandinavian in origin Haplogroup was in England during 100BCE (Before Normans and Danelaw) ?

I feel like things conflict each other, sorry this is so long, just trying to put as much info as I got.

msmarjoribanks
06-17-2020, 08:30 PM
I think we need more detail with the ancient mtDNA samples before any conclusions can be drawn.

Melissay122
06-17-2020, 08:36 PM
I think we need more detail with the ancient mtDNA samples before any conclusions can be drawn.

Hi! If I may ask what type of details would I be looking for? I don’t expect any conclusions to be the last word of all things H1ag, just mainly curious what comes to mind from others that have a lot more research experience than I do. Since I have my Mtdna full sequence I have a list of my mutations if that’s helpful? The project I mentioned above is small. I would love to research more , I just don’t know where to look. I read one scientific paper about H but it doesn’t focus on H1ag or even H1a even. If anyone knows where research I welcome the feedback :)

Melissay122
06-17-2020, 08:54 PM
I had also found this on the mtdna haplotree from FT. (Not a ton of participants )

38057

Ayetooey
06-17-2020, 09:03 PM
Yes I am in the H1ag and subclades project along with H1 genome. To be honest I didn't even think to reach out to one of them lol. Good idea though! The H1ag project is very small and not a lot of activity, but the activity there does state according to Behar 2013 that H1ag was roughly 4,300 years ago. A few comments state "Northern Europe" as the origin location although to me that is pretty vague. They do have a distribution map and when set to h1ag (vs for example; h1ag1) shows me, 2 from Normandie, 1 from Poland, One from Hamburg.

When the map for the project is set to all h1ag1 it is tied between Scandinavia and UK which I would think make h1ag1's founder (h1ag-me in this case) from Scandinavia. (Verses starting in the UK and migrating to Scandinavia) Does that sound logical?

There is one other posts that mentions an ancient sample of H1ag1 found in 2016 believed to have been alive about 100BCE and buried in England. Although, Wouldn't that mean a Scandinavian in origin Haplogroup was in England during 100BCE (Before Normans and Danelaw) ?

I feel like things conflict each other, sorry this is so long, just trying to put as much info as I got.

Well, I don't know anything about this specific haplotype, but I don't think the fact there is pre germanic samples of your mtdna necessarily means all of this mtdna is pre germanic. Mtdna is much broader than Y dna. If the Mtdna peaks in Denmark it could equally be Jute as it could be Dane viking. If it peaks in Norway then Norse viking admix is more possible.

msmarjoribanks
06-17-2020, 10:26 PM
Hi! If I may ask what type of details would I be looking for? I don’t expect any conclusions to be the last word of all things H1ag, just mainly curious what comes to mind from others that have a lot more research experience than I do. Since I have my Mtdna full sequence I have a list of my mutations if that’s helpful? The project I mentioned above is small. I would love to research more , I just don’t know where to look. I read one scientific paper about H but it doesn’t focus on H1ag or even H1a even. If anyone knows where research I welcome the feedback :)

You could have matches with ancient mtDNA samples if they can get more really specific ones. We can also better follow migration patterns.

I'm not saying you need to find more detail, but that researchers need to continue to develop this before we can know more.

mtDNA often mutates so slowly that many testers have matches from many different places. I think the ancient samples will eventually shed more light on where the different mutations developed, and the haplogroups will become more specific.

Melissay122
06-18-2020, 12:14 AM
@msmarjori - lol, sorry I thought you meant I needed to research more haha! With that said, yes I agree about research needing to progress. The stuff out there is limited. I read the 7 daughters of Eve but it was even more vague than what I find online. I'm new to all this though and maybe not the best family researcher yet. one thing I did notice that was that in the H1ag project, there's seems to be a majority of French surnames and/or Direct French ancestors. It's like for mtdna we have little clusters of info, but not the whole picture yet. Hope that changes. :)

deuterium_1
09-24-2020, 12:14 PM
A friend of mine from Maidstone, Kent got these results. It seems to back up what the OP says?

My Heritage:

49.4%
English
27.1%
Scandinavian
11.5%
Greek
4.4%
Finnish
7.6%
4 more ethnicities (didn't specify, just vague reasons)


Here are his GED match results on MDLP K16:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 29.6
2 NorthEastEuropean 26.35
3 Steppe 24.22
4 Caucasian 18.63
5 NorthAfrican 0.9
6 SouthEastAsian 0.29

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Irish (Connacht) 2.68
2 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 2.78
3 English (Kent) 3.09
4 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 3.09
5 Scottish (Highlands) 3.13
6 French (WestFrance) 3.14
7 English (Cornwall) 3.21
8 Scottish (Grampian) 3.23
9 English (England) 3.43
10 Scottish (Fife) 3.46
11 Irish (Munster) 3.47
12 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 3.51
13 Irish (Leinster) 3.63
14 Irish (Ulster) 3.67
15 Scottish (Borders) 3.87
16 Dutch (Netherlands) 4.32
17 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 4.73
18 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 4.85
19 Welsh (Wales) 5.14
20 German (Germany) 5.2

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.6% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 47.4% German (Germany) @ 1.62
2 52% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 48% German (Germany) @ 1.82
3 96% English (Kent) + 4% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 2.12
4 95.3% English (Kent) + 4.7% Adygei (Adygea) @ 2.14
5 95.3% English (Kent) + 4.7% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 2.18
6 95.7% English (Kent) + 4.3% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 2.19
7 95.3% English (Kent) + 4.7% Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) @ 2.19
8 81.1% English (Kent) + 18.9% Croat (Croatia) @ 2.19
9 63.3% English (Kent) + 36.7% Dutch (Netherlands) @ 2.21
10 96% English (Kent) + 4% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.23
11 84% English (Kent) + 16% Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) @ 2.23
12 95.2% English (Kent) + 4.8% Kumyk (Dagestan) @ 2.24
13 78.6% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 21.4% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.26
14 71.4% English (Kent) + 28.6% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) @ 2.27
15 95.8% English (Kent) + 4.2% Abhkasian (Abkhasia) @ 2.27
16 88.6% English (Kent) + 11.4% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) @ 2.27
17 95.5% English (Kent) + 4.5% Abkhazian_Lykhny (Lykhny) @ 2.27
18 56.7% Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) + 43.3% English (Kent) @ 2.28
19 76.9% Irish (Connacht) + 23.1% German (Germany) @ 2.28
20 95.8% English (Kent) + 4.2% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 2.28