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View Full Version : The Existence of OWD or off white delimma!



Alanson
01-27-2014, 06:03 PM
The existence of OWD seems to be a real case, but often ignored or swept under the rug. However this is an important aspect of the pyschological and societal factors that influence this behavior. For example it can manifest itself in all directions. The basic is that the person who is swarthy often tries to be Whiter than he or she is, and seems like they are seeking validation and acceptance. This of course applies to all people who show some dose of this condition. For example a person who might come from the swarthiest areas of Southern Europe and he looks quite swarthy and can fit in the Middle East would rail on brown people, like it means something when in reality does not, because not all brown people share the same genome or even phenotype. The case also can be applied to Middle Easterners who seem to hate themselves and try to be what they are not. I have noticed the people who have OWD often come from regions of the world that's are not developed or semi-developed. Yet this attitude is never seen among people who come from developed nations, maybe it's case of not being confident.

Discuss this is a serious topic.

GTC
01-27-2014, 10:57 PM
Yet this attitude is never seen among people who come from developed nations, maybe it's case of not being confident.


I'm not familiar with what you term OWD myself, however there are very many white-skinned people in developed nations who get skin cancer and die from trying to make their skin darker by "tanning", so perhaps there is the reciprocal problem of TWD (too white dilemma).

Alanson
02-01-2014, 01:54 AM
I'm not familiar with what you term OWD myself, however there are very many white-skinned people in developed nations who get skin cancer and die from trying to make their skin darker by "tanning", so perhaps there is the reciprocal problem of TWD (too white dilemma).

It's different, because OWD is self-hate where the person wants to fit in the racialized ideal. Here what is it described by another poster:

I did not come up with OWD out of the blue. It took years of observations, and studying how opinions were laid out by a certain segment, that usually hail from areas periphery our modern definition of Europe. Perhaps OWD needs another name, so far OWD has worked fine, and people who understand the concept, know what it means. I've had adversaries that I debated and even accussed of exhibiting signs of OWD, admit to me that they believe that this social phenomona indeed exists, and then went on to defending themselves and proving they dont exhibit it.

For those who have no idea what the off-white dilemma is, its a phenomona exhibited by people based on an ideal 'racial hierarchy'. Not everyone has the same ideal of course, but a person who suffers from OWD, knows that whatever racial hierarchial ideal he believes in, his racial group, identity, phenotype, whatever...does not fit it. So what does he or she do? He tries to tweak facts, figures, anything to put him closer to that racial ideal.

A typical tactic of someone with OWD would be dismissing a large segment of his own people, even going so far as using them as scapegoats for any characteristic he may deem negative.

The more endemic kind of OWD is denying the facts on the ground when it comes to how people physically look like. I dont want to go on detail here, but I have seen hundreds of this, where some South European, or even Middle Eastern person embellishes the extent of blonde hair, or blue eyes in his country, and for what reason? Because of a need to make his country seem lighter than it really is.

AnnieD
09-04-2015, 06:46 AM
I do project-based work and therefore bounce around to different companies in a large, metropolitan area. On one engagement, I overheard an Asian colleague with a rather light skin-tone ask another Asian American colleague if she 'got tan' over the weekend. She replied in a manner that sounded almost defensive that she had not been in the sun all weekend. Later that same morning, I heard a blond-haired Caucasian colleague with a California beach-like tan boast to his colleague that he had played golf all weekend and really worked on his tan. It was interesting to literally see and hear the different perceptions about skin-tone and tanning within one office setting. Tanning salons, in spite of years of studies about their adverse health effects, are still common in most American large cities.

tamilgangster
09-04-2015, 07:19 AM
I have read many articles related to off white delimma (OWD) and this is a very serious issue in some parts of United States. Out of curiosity I had done some research and turns out lot of peoples are turning to plastic surgery to avoid this problem.

Its more of an issue on race boards than anything. In america, alot of white people will try to exotify themselves by saying that they are a "white hispanic" or claim to have an ancient native american relative. MENAs in the US are fighting to have their own category and not be considered white.

Sapporo
09-04-2015, 02:22 PM
Its more of an issue on race boards than anything. In america, alot of white people will try to exotify themselves by saying that they are a "white hispanic" or claim to have an ancient native american relative. MENAs in the US are fighting to have their own category and not be considered white.


Agreed. It is something more common on online anthro forums. Especially, non-genetic anthro focused ones (phenotype, etc.) outside of genica.

Also, a lot of Asian societies (West, East or South) have had a preference for lighter skin prior to any interaction with Europeans. Often, it was related to social hierarchy within a society where the upper class avoided tolling out on the fields like the average person and thus were often paler or less tanned.

Of course, in many Western countries like the US or Canada where being of European ancestry is the norm on average, some insecure people of any minority background may show manifestations of OWD in IRL.

Arbogan
09-05-2015, 09:42 AM
It's an global social phenomenon. It has to do with the influence of mainstream western culture and imagery, being spread on a global scale. Just go into any fashion store or any hairstyling saloon in a developing world country. Full of hair and fashion models from the west. Everyone wants to be perceived according to the aethsetics of the most powerful at the time. When I look at my own homeland. Until their exposure to western mainstream culture and the onset of intense globalization, the qajars had a significantly different aethsetic ideal prior to their adoption of western aethsetics during the 19th century.

Here:
http://www.roshan-institute.org/clientimages/39783/castreqajar.jpg
http://www.royalark.net/Persia/zand-karim.jpg
http://www.qajarstudies.org/tombak.jpg

Compared to how the royals and the the elite dressed once western aethsetics began to influence the countries culture during the 19th century:

http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5jjzzZVe11r84v2no1_500.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Nasser_Ad-Din_Shah_Qajar.jpg
http://azerbaijans.com/uploads/Emenulla-mirze222.jpg
http://users.sedona.net/~sepa/ahmadsha.jpg
http://www.hakimi.me/Family/album/grand_vazir/ghakimi4.jpg

Souriquois
09-26-2015, 02:20 PM
Read about OWD in my family, and my own past with it here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5426-Qalipu-First-Nation-My-Geneaology-Project-A-Change-in-Identity&p=110919#post110919).

sunny
10-20-2015, 10:35 AM
Alanson (http://www.anthrogenica.com/member.php?187-Alanson) ''The basic is that the person who is swarthy often tries to be Whiter than he or she is, and seems like they are seeking validation and acceptance. ''

Alanson (http://www.anthrogenica.com/member.php?187-Alanson) ''For those who have no idea what the off-white dilemma is, its a phenomona exhibited by people based on an ideal 'racial hierarchy''

The flow of the argument is always set by the dominant culture to appear in there favour.

In this case westerners relish connecting a preference for fair skin amongst 'brown' (non-european) people as equating to a preference for wanting to look European. This is a factually incorrect idea. Even many african albinos, some mongloids have fairer skin than some Europeans but the idea that (1) 'brown' skinned people want to be alfrican albinos/mongloids will never be found to be a trend by the mainstream and neither will the idea that (2) many europeans enjoying tanning themselves hence they want to be 'Brown'/'Browner' because many europeans who if they had darker skin (dark tan) could pass as non-european . The reason these ideas would not become a trend amongst mainstream is because there is a basic global admiration for European looks which is a totally independent point but is being fused with the concept of 'white' (skin colour) and used to give the fallacious impression that 'brown' skinned people who express a preference for fair/white skin want to be 'white' aka european (total look). There is a semblance of truth that a fairer complexion is preferred amongst many ethnic groups but this does not equate to wanting to be/look european i.e trying to be 'White' /''Whiter than he or she is'' if by 'tries to be Whiter'' one envisages a European. A preference for fair skin is prevalent amongst many south asians but this preference is for a type/colour of skin that is well within the range of south asian norms i.e (North indian,kalash, pathans, etc....) in which case to equate a preferance for fair skin amongst south asians to trying to be ''white'' (European) is a specious argument. South asian skin (colour/type) differs remarkably from European skin (type/colour) so there should be no misconception as far as south asian preference for fair skin goes to it equating to wanting to be/look 'white'/'whiter' (European) or seeking any form of ''validation'' or ''acceptance'' from ''white'' people (Europeans). Also the preference for fair skin amongst south asians pre-dates any contact/interaction with Europeans.

Besides ''white'' is a social construct that cannot be used to specify racial identification as it is based on a social construct/ideal, a construct/ideal nobody fits/meets in reality. Nobody's skin tone is literally ''white''. So to even begin with one cannot try to be ''whiter'' than one is if one is not ''white'' to begin with. If anything Europeans skin tone falls more into the ''pink'' range and so a more accurate means of racial identification for europeans would be to refer to themselves as the ''Pink'' people. In which case the argument (for example) europeans are trying to look more ''Pinker (Whiter) than they are'' has veracity but an individual cannot seek ''validation''/''acceptance'' from another group who themselves do not meet the racial criteria they are seeking to identify with.

Xuipa
10-20-2015, 05:05 PM
The existence of OWD seems to be a real case, but often ignored or swept under the rug. However this is an important aspect of the pyschological and societal factors that influence this behavior. For example it can manifest itself in all directions. The basic is that the person who is swarthy often tries to be Whiter than he or she is, and seems like they are seeking validation and acceptance. This of course applies to all people who show some dose of this condition. For example a person who might come from the swarthiest areas of Southern Europe and he looks quite swarthy and can fit in the Middle East would rail on brown people, like it means something when in reality does not, because not all brown people share the same genome or even phenotype. The case also can be applied to Middle Easterners who seem to hate themselves and try to be what they are not. I have noticed the people who have OWD often come from regions of the world that's are not developed or semi-developed. Yet this attitude is never seen among people who come from developed nations, maybe it's case of not being confident.

Discuss this is a serious topic.

what if you have this completely backwards ? ( and you are only seeing effects of something older )

what I mean is what if the very first genocide was a black nation ( Eqypt and Caanan( brothers ) ) who was usurping 10 confederate world wide trading powers and confederate kingdoms of more white-ish and reddish type people. and What if the very first nation wide Genocide was black on white ? and blacks Usurping all these others peoples kingdoms and traditions and laws.. What if Blacks usurped white-ishes kingdoms and their heritage and their locations and their city states and their queens and kings and their traditions ? what if what you think you are seeing is only the effects of one of the first of many that will come of such a world wide genocides of every color and places and all it's wealth , what if you are just seeing the effects of ancient trama ? what if the very first trama was black on white-ish genocide and the ultimate theft of whole nations , That the blacks are still proud of and consider it their greatest moment ? ( see Namers Palette) and the very reason God himself put Israel's 12 sons in Egypt to grow into a nation there ,was in order to usurp the usurpers. and If he had not done it everyone would still be speaking Egyptian and paying homage and Huge taxes and tributes to them . Because it wasn't Namer's right to do what Narmer did . You see Menes was a Menace . and what if no one has understood who they were since then because they were forced to change who they were ? what if they were forced to changes their laws and their Gods and everything? and in that left the world lost to who they came from and who they were .