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Finn
02-16-2020, 09:02 PM
Mytrueancestry had a new nice tool namely haplogroup that gives an overview of the Y-DNA and Mt-DNA of our ancestors. IMO this is a very useful tool.

Let me illustrate it, this is the Mt-DNA spread of my mother's ancestry:

https://www.mupload.nl/img/fvmc6w0q7jr.25.02.png

https://www.mupload.nl/img/xh3i93pcumg9w.58.39.png

Source: Maja Krzewińska et al

Finn Mom follows the modern Norway pattern, with two exceptions:


I. Finn Mom has an ‘ancient Norway’ kind of percentage I

Explanation:

Wiki:

Haplogroup I displays a strong connection with the Indo-European migrations; especially its I1, I1a1 and I3a subclades, which have been found in Poltavka and Srubnaya cultures in Russia (Mathieson 2015), among ancient Scythians (Der Sarkissian 2011), and in Corded Ware and Unetice Culture burials in Saxony (Brandt 2013).

Melchior et al:

It is notable that the latter I haplotype was also observed in two of the nine individuals of an Early Christian population sample (ca. 1,000 AD) from Konge- marken, 100 km to the north at Roskilde (Rudbeck et al., 2005) (Table 4). In contrast, only one individual of haplogroup I (in England) was observed amongst the 114 subjects analyzed in the recent studies of ancient popula- tions in Italy, Spain, Great Britain, and early central Eu- ropean farmers (Vernesi et al., 2004; Haak et al., 2005; Sampietro et al., 2005; Topf et al., 2006). These findings suggest that haplogroup I might have had a pronounced frequency distribution in Denmark or Northern Europe.


II. Finn mom has an ‘ancient Norway' kind of percentage K


Explanation

Wiki:

The clade was also discovered in skeletons of early farmers in Central Europe dated to around 5500-5300 BC, at percentages that were nearly double the percentage present in modern Europe. Some techniques of farming, together with associated plant and animal breeds, spread into Europe from the Near East. The evidence from ancient DNA suggests that the Neolithic culture spread by human migration.[16]
Analysis of the mtDNA of Ítzi, the frozen mummy from 3300 BC found on the Austrian-Italian border, has shown that Ítzi belongs to the K1 subclade. It cannot be categorized into any of the three modern branches of that subclade (K1a, K1b or K1c). The new subclade has provisionally been named K1÷ for Ítzi.[17] Multiplex assay study was able to confirm that the Iceman's mtDNA belongs to a new European mtDNA clade with a very limited distribution amongst modern data sets.[18]


Conclusion
So Finn Mom has compared to modern Norwegians a higher Indo-European (I) and Funnelbeaker (K) component that is closer to the Norwegians and Danes of the early middle ages.


Sources:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4275891/#RSTB20130384C54
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18046774

firemonkey
02-16-2020, 09:38 PM
R1B 67.5 Loads of matches
E 0.92
I1 6.48
12 10.1 A few matches
J 1.85 Late period ancient Egypt
N 0.92
R1A 12 A few matches

Finn
02-16-2020, 09:51 PM
R1B 67.5 Loads of matches
E 0.92
I1 6.48
12 10.1 A few matches
J 1.85 Late period ancient Egypt
N 0.92
R1A 12 A few matches

And the MtDNA Firemonkey?

firemonkey
02-16-2020, 10:25 PM
And the MtDNA Firemonkey?

U5 10.1 9 matches
W 1.45
X 1.45 Post Viking Danish
C 0.97
D 0.48
H 14.5 A lot of matches
H1 + H3 18.9 Quite a lot of matches
H5 1.94 Norse Iceland and Scotland
HV 0.48 5 matches
HV+0 5.33 7 matches
1 3.88 Bavaria and Wales
J 12.6 10 matches
K 11.6 Quite a lot of matches
M 0.97 Late period ancient Egypt
N 0.48
T1 0.97 Netherlands
T2 8.73 7 matches
U 3.39 Quite a lot of matches
U2 1.45 2 Danish and 1 English

JFWinstone
02-16-2020, 11:08 PM
I don't have any paid accounts but this is my mum's

Mum - Ydna

R1b - 57.6%
E1b - 4.7%
I1 - 5.88%
I2 - 8.23%
IJ - 1.17%
J - 2.35%
N - 3.52%
Q - 3.52%
R1a - 12.9%

Mum - Mtdna

C - 1.74%
D - 1.16%
G - 0.58%
H - 13.9%
H1 + H3 - 21.5%
I - 0.58%
J - 9.88%
K - 7.55%
L - 0.58%
M - 1.78%
N - 1.74%
R - 1.16%
T1 - 0.58%
T2 - 7.55%
U - 4.06%
U2 - 2.32
U3 - 0.58
U5 - 11%
W - 2.32%
X - 1.16%

Deftextra
02-17-2020, 01:02 AM
Here are my Y-DNA matches:
E1b-20.4%
J-27.2%
R1b-13.6%
G-9.09%
I1-4.54%
I2-1.13%
N-4.57%
Q-2.27%
R-1.13%
R1a-2.37%

T-4.57%
A1-2.27%
E-3.4%
E2-3.4%

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
02-17-2020, 11:56 AM
My Y DNA distribution matches

E1b - 25%
R1b - 20%
J - 11.2%
A1 - 7.5%
R1a - 7.5%
N - 6.25%
Q - 6.25%
l1 - 3.75%
E2 - 3.75%
E - 2.5%
lJ - 1.25%
l2 - 1.25%
R - 1.25%
T - 1.25%
C2 - 1.25%

36407

Finn
02-17-2020, 12:53 PM
Fellow members nice that you post your results but before this is a massive these are my numbers....and that's it. My question to you: does it give you another perspective?

firemonkey
02-17-2020, 01:27 PM
Fellow members nice that you post your results but before this is a massive these are my numbers....and that's it. My question to you: does it give you another perspective?

Not really, but that's because I have little idea what it's telling me.

JoeyP37
02-17-2020, 01:58 PM
In my case, the y-haplo wheel looks like the average haplogroups for the British Isles, where the majority of my ancestors come from, with about 2/3 R1b, and about 1/8 each for R1a and I2. Save for the relative paucity of I1, with only one sample. It appears the Scandinavian samples I match are mostly R1a, like me, rather than I1. My mtdna wheel looks a lot like Firemonkey's, which makes sense given, again, my majoritarian British Isles ancestry (62% in 23andMe, 78% combined English/Wales and Ireland/Scotland; but that is leaving out the 13% Broadly Northwest European in 23andMe. Conservatively I would say 2/3 of my DNA is British Isles origin)

Finn
02-17-2020, 02:13 PM
Not really, but that's because I have little idea what it's telling me.

It gives insight to all your paternal lines (respectively maternal) of your ancestry!
Not only the direct one.

Now out of time but I will come back and set the light on your figures fire monkey.

firemonkey
02-17-2020, 02:24 PM
It gives insight to all your paternal lines (respectively maternal) of your ancestry!
Not only the direct one.

Now out of time but I will come back and set the light on your figures fire monkey.

I know it shines a light on things. It's what the light reveals that eludes me. Thanks for offering to enlighten me .

JFWinstone
02-17-2020, 06:50 PM
Fellow members nice that you post your results but before this is a massive these are my numbers....and that's it. My question to you: does it give you another perspective?

Rather interesting. We suspect that my mother's father's Ydna was probably E1b as most of our male Mauritian and Malagasy matches are all E1b so it was interesting that it came up for her on this.

Finn
02-17-2020, 09:08 PM
U5 10.1 9 matches
W 1.45
X 1.45 Post Viking Danish
C 0.97
D 0.48
H 14.5 A lot of matches
H1 + H3 18.9 Quite a lot of matches
H5 1.94 Norse Iceland and Scotland
HV 0.48 5 matches
HV+0 5.33 7 matches
1 3.88 Bavaria and Wales
J 12.6 10 matches
K 11.6 Quite a lot of matches
M 0.97 Late period ancient Egypt
N 0.48
T1 0.97 Netherlands
T2 8.73 7 matches
U 3.39 Quite a lot of matches
U2 1.45 2 Danish and 1 English

With a bird's eye view: this follows the English pattern only K is with 12 on an Ireland (lesser extent Iceland) level, most probably a higher neolithic farmer level.

You can check the scores on:
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_mtdna_haplogroups_frequency.shtml

Generalissimo
02-19-2020, 03:47 AM
Yeah, they run an oracle like at GEDmatch and then tell you which haplogroups are common in the populations that you get at the top of the oracle.

But there are many problems with this sort of analysis, and the more mixed you are the worse the problems get. For instance, someone who is half Chinese and half English will end up with Central Asian haplogroups. LOL

digital_noise
02-19-2020, 05:45 PM
I might be off base for saying this but the vibe I get from My True Ancestry is one of novelty, like there is some disclaimer somewhere saying its for entertainment purposes only. Kinda like that coat of arms website that has a coat of arms for every surname and throws up some BS on the history of said surname.

Making assumptions on haplogroups is almost as foolish as using phenotypes to target a certain ethnicity.

Finn
02-19-2020, 09:55 PM
Yeah, they run an oracle like at GEDmatch and then tell you which haplogroups are common in the populations that you get at the top of the oracle.

But there are many problems with this sort of analysis, and the more mixed you are the worse the problems get. For instance, someone who is half Chinese and half English will end up with Central Asian haplogroups. LOL

The site of mytrueancestry is IMO partly over the top.....

For example the match with the Viking girl:


Deep Dive Match! 15% closer than others who share this deep dive sample
Genetic Distance: 12.847
:biggrin1:

Sample Match! 92% closer than other users


Ragnar Lodbrok here I come!

Especially with the following break down:

Viking Danish + Longobard (1.675)
Viking + Saxon (2.086)
Viking + Longobard (2.601)
Viking Danish + Saxon (2.657)
Viking Norwegian + Saxon (2.659)
Viking (4.62)
Viking Norwegian (5.227)
Longobard (6.024)
Viking Danish (6.159)
Saxon (7.071)


Finn starring:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFFxiPegAE0

:biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1:

People get weird things in their heads because of this!

BUT
There is one exception that is really very interesting and that;'s the breakdown of the Y-DNA and Mt-DNA of all your ancestors!!! That's a big plus of mytrueancestry!!!

IMO they prove that NE Dutch like I'm (and pretty rooted there) labeled as 'Germanic' but it's kind of a specific 'mixture'.

My mothers Y-DNA and my father's and mine look close:

Father/Mine:
https://www.mupload.nl/img/0d2uok.29.21.png

Mother:
https://www.mupload.nl/img/5g7lf47h8gn60.30.00.png

What makes it specific is:
1.The R1b is with 64% compared to the Danes (33%), North Germans (36%) and Dutch (49%) and even Frisians (57%) exceptional high! It's rather English (67%). Of course it contains a lot of R1b U106 but also the more explicit Bell Beaker variations of R1b!
2. I2a2 is with about 12,5 % also exceptional high compared to the Dutch (1%), Danes (2%) and North Germans (0,5%), it's most probably a Funnelbeaker (HG component of it) residu. The more classic Germanic I1 is on much much lower level than in the surrounding area's.
3. R1a is with 14% on a Danish (15%) level, Frisians (7%) Dutch general (4%) get much lower, North Germany gets with 22% considerable higher.

In the end this give through the eye lashes an image that we are partly more pre-or proto Germanic especially with the higher I2a2 (Funnelbeaker/HG), considerable amount of Bell Beaker kinds of R1b, that is more connected with the Isles, and the more than Dutch/Frisian average R1a (form the Indo-European/Corded horizon). It certainly doesn't rule out heavily influence from the Anglo-Saxons and other North Sea dwellers of migration time but doesn't equal them totally....it contains IMO much more older residu's/ substrates (that have on their turn a connection with the North German plain but an older connection).

That is much more complicated than the label 'Danish Viking' , 'Longobard' and 'shield maiden of the Vikings'! My fuzzy message is much less sexy and sells less...

Generalissimo
02-19-2020, 10:54 PM
There is one exception that is really very interesting and that;'s the breakdown of the Y-DNA and Mt-DNA of all your ancestors!!! That's a big plus of mytrueancestry!!!

But that's not what they show you.

They show you the Y-DNA and mt-DNA haplogroups that are found in the populations that you get at the top of your oracle list.

You can do a better job yourself of this sort of thing simply by looking at a couple of recent studies about Dutch Y-DNA and mtDNA.

Finn
02-19-2020, 11:07 PM
But that's not what they show you.

They show you the Y-DNA and mt-DNA haplogroups that are found in the populations that you get at the top of your oracle list.

You can do a better job yourself of this sort of thing simply by looking at a couple of recent studies about Dutch Y-DNA and mtDNA.

If that’s the case how could they be slightly different and plus my mother has got Welsh on top....Isn’t this another feature I have read somewhere the firmname of but I have forgotten the name.....

Finn
02-19-2020, 11:16 PM
But that's not what they show you.

They show you the Y-DNA and mt-DNA haplogroups that are found in the populations that you get at the top of your oracle list.

You can do a better job yourself of this sort of thing simply by looking at a couple of recent studies about Dutch Y-DNA and mtDNA.

Got it. This is the release text:


MyTrueAncestry EXCLUSIVE feature: Haplogroup Analytics 2.0! *NEW* Dante Labs File support now live! VCF support activated!
- Haplogroup Analytics now combines all matching samples with detailed haplogroups!
- Royal haplogroups are marked with a Crown to better aid your research - VERY addictive
Dante Labs support added! MyTrueAncestry now proudly supports Whole Genome Sequencing data files - maximize your results at MTA.
VCF 4.x file support added!

Generalissimo
02-19-2020, 11:43 PM
If that’s the case how could they be slightly different and plus my mother has got Welsh on top....Isn’t this another feature I have read somewhere the firmname of but I have forgotten the name.....

Probably because her oracle is off.

Finn
02-20-2020, 07:15 AM
Probably because her oracle is off.

May be, but it's more likely a separate tool.

I must be something separate because by no way we get about 12,5% I2a2 based on the oracle results.

Generalissimo
02-20-2020, 07:43 AM
May be, but it's more likely a separate tool.

I must be something separate because by no way we get about 12,5% I2a2 based on the oracle results.

And there's no way you can share 50cM with ancient samples either. So there you go.

Finn
02-20-2020, 07:58 AM
And there's no way you can share 50cM with ancient samples either. So there you go.

That's true, but that's besides that specific tool. As fare as I know only this specific part (the haplogroups analysis) they bought from Dante. The rest is otherwise.

Generalissimo
02-20-2020, 09:01 AM
Keep hoping.

Finn
02-20-2020, 09:20 AM
Keep hoping.

I can't judge if this Dante tool is right or not. You can.

The result makes sense. My paper trail is 100% NE Dutch, more specific in a tiny subregion (mom North Drenthe/ father Groningen, just few miles). Exaggerated: this part of the North Dutch area is a kind of genetic jurassic park ;)

The west part of North Dutch in Friesland, they got a severe population decline at the end of Ronan times, in North Drenthe and Groningen this is not so much the case. This is at easy what archeologist state (Nieuwhof, Nicolay).

It's also visible in the nowadays genetic landscape. R1b S116 (Beakerish) is very low in the Westergo part of Friesland and high on the old BB hotspot Veluwe. 10% difference.
Westergo was repopulated by Anglo-Saxons and other North Sea dwellers.

Larmuseau et al (2019):
https://www.mupload.nl/img/gi7wh47h.12.07.png

So seen the fact that North Drenthe was the hotspot of the funnel beakers and later on BB, and there was no population decline like in Friesland. So a higher Funnelbeaker I2a2 and Beaker kind of R1b as a substrate is no wonder..... So seen form the result this is not weird.

Generalissimo
02-20-2020, 09:56 AM
It's not a Dante tool. They're just using Dante data.

Finn
02-20-2020, 10:30 AM
As Davidski said before, it is exactly the same feature as in this example, I hope it is easy to understand...

You can use in G25 spreadsheet with individual ancient data and results will be similar to MTA single distances list or breakdown.

You will receive a breakdown of individual ancient samples then.

And next you can check using relevant websites Y-DNA and mtDNA of every sample you have in G25 breakdown.

And in very last step you can make simple calculation of haplogroups frequencies of G25 samples in your breakdown and it is exactly what you get in MTA. But they use not G25 but old K15 for calculation this oracle:) Plus they add some samples which are fake like St. Bryce Massacre vikings, Franks, Picts, which aren't tested and published nowhere.

And tell me you consider your G25 breakdown as genealogical tree of your real ancestors or just a similarity to ancient samples? No? So why you do it for MTA vague results? Because they give you fake "deep dive " matches with unrealistic values?

As said they use a tool or data of the Dante firm, that has no relationship with K15 or G25. Apples and oranges.

Finn
02-20-2020, 11:14 AM
Again.


You are quoting three separate sentences about their new features... Not related to each other...

Should be like this:)




This message which you quoted shouldn't be read as one sentence. I hope it is clear now.

It was about Dante Finn... They simply started to support Dante kits. That's it.
https://i.imgur.com/3p3MEMw.jpg


All fine but this leads to nothing (besides textexegesis): is that "haplogroup analytics" thing valuable or firewood?

See from the result it is seen the context not weird. So I consider it valuable.

But the technique is a black box for me.

What I do know is that is they didn't used the K15 results because then we never had 12,5% I2a2 because our K15 results don't have such percentages I2a2

My result:

1. North_Dutch (2.685) Frisians have 1% I2a2 (wiki)
2. Danish (3.107) 2 % I2a2
3. West_Scottish (4.213) 1% I2a2 (although on the map there are some I2a2 highlights).
4. Norwegian (4.773) 0% I2a
5. Orcadian (4.790) ?
6. Irish (4.931) 1% I2a2 1% I2a2
7. West_Norwegian (5.083) 1% I2a2
8. Southeast_English (6.218) 1% I2a2

There are subregional highlights, but 12,5 % is for a NW European quite high.

https://www.mupload.nl/img/9oka81ye.08.48.png

Basically: based on K15 you can't make 12,5% I2a2 out of it. i'm not a whiz kid, but this is too obvious.


And by the way the MtDNA results of my parents is quite differentiated.

Finn
02-20-2020, 12:42 PM
Keep hoping.

Hummmmm:frusty:

Wat makes me very suspicious is that my wife Southwest Dutch/ Northern France get's also 11% I2a2.....can't be true.

Hope gone ;)

ThaYamamoto
10-06-2020, 06:40 PM
Man this tool is absolutely atrocious. Someone needs to get mytrueancestry taken down. How can all my mtdna 'matches' or heritage contributors be everything but 'L'.