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JonikW
02-17-2020, 10:45 PM
My father-in-law from Georgia in the Caucasus has just tested at 23andme, and he turns out to be J-L25, which I believe is also known as J2a4h2. I've been waiting for him to test for years, mainly because of an interest in what his Y haplogroup might be, but I know nothing about this marker so hope someone here can tell me something about it, particularly regarding distribution and clades in the Caucasus, cultural spread etc.

I see from a quick look that J-L25 seems to have expanded with the first farmers, and I must admit I'm a little disappointed given the YFull TMRCA of 9,100ybp that 23andme didn't give him something further downstream (I thought my own "I-M253" was bad, but at least that's a few thousand years more recent for surviving branches). My father-in-law's line comes from eastern Georgia in the Kakheti region (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakheti), and specifically the Signagi area, while the surname is a local one, ending in -ashvili.

Has anyone got a best guess regarding a more recent clade candidate for a J-L25 Kakhetian, or anything of interest at all to say about the haplogroup? I'm thinking at this stage that I might try to arrive at something downstream by running him through a predictor. My only experience with one of those was running my Welsh mother's cousin's MyHeritage results. I found he was R1b, L151+ and U106- so from there it wasn't too much of a risk to bet successfully on an L21 panel test at YSEQ. But at least I knew a little about the big R1b clades while I'd be completely lost here…

Is this marker found evenly all over the Caucasus or are there particular hotspots? As I've mentioned on the forum before, I'm a Georgian citizen and have a strong interest in the history, language and culture of the land and region.

Kristiina
02-18-2020, 05:40 AM
There are several ancient J-L25 samples starting from Bustan Eneolithic Uzbekistan to Middle Bronze Age Kazakhstan. I have noted the following samples:

Bustan Eneolithic Uzbekistan 3331-2972 calBC I11028 J2a1h2-L25/PF5345/S399 (ISOGG 2016), J2a1a1b2a1-L25 (ISOGG 2019)

CA Tepe Hissar Chalcolithic Northeast Iran I2337 J2a1h2-L25; under J2a1a1b2a1a (ISOGG 2019)

Iran Bronze Age Seistan 3328-3022 calBCE I11471 J2a1h2-L25/PF5345/S399 (ISOGG 2016), J2a1a1b2a1-L25 (ISOGG 2019)

BA Aigyrzhal Kyrgyztan 2114-1928 calBC I11527 J2a1h2-L25/PF5345/S399 (ISOGG 2016), J2a1a1b2a1-L25 (ISOGG 2019); pre-J-Y17404 (under J2a1a1b2a1a1)

Taldysay MLBA1 Central Kazakhstan I4794 J2a1h2-L25; J2a1a1b2a1a-F3133 (ISOGG 2019)

The following ancient samples are or are probably downstream of L25:

BA Sappali Tepe Kohitang mountains SE Uzbekistan I7494 J2a1-L26/PF5110

TianShanSaka nomad Baskya Kyrgyzstan DA57/TianShanSaka J2a1h*-Y13534; under J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
TianShanSaka Baskya nomad Kyrgyzstan DA58/TianShanSaka J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
TianShanSaka Baskya Kyrgyzstan nomad DA59/TianShanSaka J2a1h*-Y13534; under J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)

Imperial Romans Lazio ANAS (villas) 100-300 CE R68 J2a1-L26; J-FGC9942* under J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (2019)
Roman late Antiquity Lazio Marcellino & Pietro 300-500 CE R136 J2a1h2a1-L70 (2016); J2a1a1b2a1b1-L70 (2019)
Viking Sweden_Skara 62 Varnhem 10-12th AD VK42 J2a1a1b2a1b1-L70

Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA222/Karluk J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA230/Karluk J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA203/Karakhanid J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA204/Karakhanid J2a1h*-Y14698; under J2a1a1b2a1a2b*-Z7706

SUPREEEEEME
02-18-2020, 09:01 AM
There are several ancient J-L25 samples starting from Bustan Eneolithic Uzbekistan to Middle Bronze Age Kazakhstan. I have noted the following samples:

Bustan Eneolithic Uzbekistan 3331-2972 calBC I11028 J2a1h2-L25/PF5345/S399 (ISOGG 2016), J2a1a1b2a1-L25 (ISOGG 2019)

CA Tepe Hissar Chalcolithic Northeast Iran I2337 J2a1h2-L25; under J2a1a1b2a1a (ISOGG 2019)

Iran Bronze Age Seistan 3328-3022 calBCE I11471 J2a1h2-L25/PF5345/S399 (ISOGG 2016), J2a1a1b2a1-L25 (ISOGG 2019)

BA Aigyrzhal Kyrgyztan 2114-1928 calBC I11527 J2a1h2-L25/PF5345/S399 (ISOGG 2016), J2a1a1b2a1-L25 (ISOGG 2019); pre-J-Y17404 (under J2a1a1b2a1a1)

Taldysay MLBA1 Central Kazakhstan I4794 J2a1h2-L25; J2a1a1b2a1a-F3133 (ISOGG 2019)

The following ancient samples are or are probably downstream of L25:

BA Sappali Tepe Kohitang mountains SE Uzbekistan I7494 J2a1-L26/PF5110

TianShanSaka nomad Baskya Kyrgyzstan DA57/TianShanSaka J2a1h*-Y13534; under J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
TianShanSaka Baskya nomad Kyrgyzstan DA58/TianShanSaka J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
TianShanSaka Baskya Kyrgyzstan nomad DA59/TianShanSaka J2a1h*-Y13534; under J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)

Imperial Romans Lazio ANAS (villas) 100-300 CE R68 J2a1-L26; J-FGC9942* under J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (2019)
Roman late Antiquity Lazio Marcellino & Pietro 300-500 CE R136 J2a1h2a1-L70 (2016); J2a1a1b2a1b1-L70 (2019)
Viking Sweden_Skara 62 Varnhem 10-12th AD VK42 J2a1a1b2a1b1-L70

Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA222/Karluk J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA230/Karluk J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA203/Karakhanid J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA204/Karakhanid J2a1h*-Y14698; under J2a1a1b2a1a2b*-Z7706

Would have never thought that J-L70 would be found in Vikings. The only mention of the particular individual in the text explains that the individual has alleles associated with brown eyes and darker hair - which doesn't really tell us much?

Under the supplementary information, it seems the authors were of the opinion that the presence of E, G, J and T indicate a non-Scandinavian male genetic component in Viking Age Northern Europe (which makes sense, in my opinion).

J Man
06-27-2020, 10:33 PM
There are several ancient J-L25 samples starting from Bustan Eneolithic Uzbekistan to Middle Bronze Age Kazakhstan. I have noted the following samples:

Bustan Eneolithic Uzbekistan 3331-2972 calBC I11028 J2a1h2-L25/PF5345/S399 (ISOGG 2016), J2a1a1b2a1-L25 (ISOGG 2019)

CA Tepe Hissar Chalcolithic Northeast Iran I2337 J2a1h2-L25; under J2a1a1b2a1a (ISOGG 2019)

Iran Bronze Age Seistan 3328-3022 calBCE I11471 J2a1h2-L25/PF5345/S399 (ISOGG 2016), J2a1a1b2a1-L25 (ISOGG 2019)

BA Aigyrzhal Kyrgyztan 2114-1928 calBC I11527 J2a1h2-L25/PF5345/S399 (ISOGG 2016), J2a1a1b2a1-L25 (ISOGG 2019); pre-J-Y17404 (under J2a1a1b2a1a1)

Taldysay MLBA1 Central Kazakhstan I4794 J2a1h2-L25; J2a1a1b2a1a-F3133 (ISOGG 2019)

The following ancient samples are or are probably downstream of L25:

BA Sappali Tepe Kohitang mountains SE Uzbekistan I7494 J2a1-L26/PF5110

TianShanSaka nomad Baskya Kyrgyzstan DA57/TianShanSaka J2a1h*-Y13534; under J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
TianShanSaka Baskya nomad Kyrgyzstan DA58/TianShanSaka J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
TianShanSaka Baskya Kyrgyzstan nomad DA59/TianShanSaka J2a1h*-Y13534; under J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)

Imperial Romans Lazio ANAS (villas) 100-300 CE R68 J2a1-L26; J-FGC9942* under J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (2019)
Roman late Antiquity Lazio Marcellino & Pietro 300-500 CE R136 J2a1h2a1-L70 (2016); J2a1a1b2a1b1-L70 (2019)
Viking Sweden_Skara 62 Varnhem 10-12th AD VK42 J2a1a1b2a1b1-L70

Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA222/Karluk J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA230/Karluk J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA203/Karakhanid J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA204/Karakhanid J2a1h*-Y14698; under J2a1a1b2a1a2b*-Z7706

Where did you get the information from for these Tian Shan Saka, Karluk and Karakhanid samples listed below being labeled as nomads? I know what paper they are from but I don't remember anywhere in it that those specific samples are labeled as "nomad".

TianShanSaka nomad Baskya Kyrgyzstan DA57/TianShanSaka J2a1h*-Y13534; under J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
TianShanSaka Baskya nomad Kyrgyzstan DA58/TianShanSaka J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
TianShanSaka Baskya Kyrgyzstan nomad DA59/TianShanSaka J2a1h*-Y13534; under J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)

Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA222/Karluk J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA230/Karluk J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA203/Karakhanid J2a1h*-Z7706; J2a1a1b2a1a2-Z7706 (ISOGG 2019)
Medieval nomad Butakty 1 Zharbulak Kazakhstan DA204/Karakhanid J2a1h*-Y14698; under J2a1a1b2a1a2b*-Z7706

leperrine
12-17-2020, 04:44 PM
Where can I get more info on the J-L70 Viking? Maybe I'm connected to him.

SUPREEEEEME
12-17-2020, 05:32 PM
Where can I get more info on the J-L70 Viking? Maybe I'm connected to him.

This is his branch:
https://yfull.com/tree/J-FGC32690*/

Some other information about him is that he was around 1/4 Southern European. It's interesting that J-L70 was not the only Middle Eastern clade to show up in the Viking samples.

You two share a common ancestor who lived around 1900 BCE. This ancestor is shared by every male who belongs to J-L70. This individual more than likely lived in the Northern Levant. Within J-L70 itself, you two are on very different branches.

leperrine
12-17-2020, 08:03 PM
This is his branch:
https://yfull.com/tree/J-FGC32690*/

Some other information about him is that he was around 1/4 Southern European. It's interesting that J-L70 was not the only Middle Eastern clade to show up in the Viking samples.

You two share a common ancestor who lived around 1900 BCE. This ancestor is shared by every male who belongs to J-L70. This individual more than likely lived in the Northern Levant. Within J-L70 itself, you two are on very different branches.

Interesting... Maybe some Benjimites made it way up north.