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MitchellSince1893
02-19-2020, 10:51 PM
On the FTDNA haplotree https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/A

I was curious where you would end up if you kept selecting the largest sub branch based on the numbers next to each branch, starting at the root of the y-dna haplotree: Haplogroup A-PR2921, 56 sub branches later I ended up at R-BY75435.

The path is as follows:
16 clicks/sub branches down you end up at R-M207 (haplogroup R),
2 more clicks/branches down and you are at R1b
9 more clicks/branches down: R-P312
2 more clicks/branch down: R-L21
1 more click/branch down: R-DF-13
2 more clicks/branches down: R-DF49
3 more clicks/branches down: R-DF23
3 more clicks/branches down: R-M222
2 more clicks/branches down: R-DF104
1 more click/branch down: R-DF105
1 more click/branch down: R-DF85
3 more clicks/branches down: R-DF97
12 more clicks/branches down and you finally end up at R-BY75435

Anybody on anthrogencia make it all the way to BY75435?

I make it to 27 clicks/branches down before I part ways at P312 to L21.

Once I get to U152 I do have a nice run of largest branch of U152, L2 to largest branch Z49, to largest branch Z142, to largest branch Z12222, but then I'm the 2nd largest branch of Z12222, FGC12378.

A pointless exercise of bragging rights of which anthrogenica member gets the furthest down...Just something to do until the next interesting paper is released.

Osiris
02-19-2020, 11:01 PM
I'm almost the same as you except I'm not Z49 but rather the tiny cousin A6454 and going down from there I'm usually the smaller choice. Although seeing the numbers laid out like that is kind of scary working backwards. There are about 600 million R men out there from an old estimate I did. By clicking down there must have been thousands of lines of men living back then that are still living today. If I ever hope to see an ancient A6454 it will be truly a shot in the dark.

jdean
02-20-2020, 12:02 AM
On the FTDNA haplotree https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/A

I was curious where you would end up if you kept selecting the largest sub branch based on the numbers next to each branch, starting at the root of the y-dna haplotree: Haplogroup A-PR2921, 56 sub branches later I ended up at R-BY75435.

The path is as follows:
16 clicks/sub branches down you end up at R-M207 (haplogroup R),
2 more clicks/branches down and you are at R1b
9 more clicks/branches down: R-P312
2 more clicks/branch down: R-L21
1 more click/branch down: R-DF-13
2 more clicks/branches down: R-DF49
3 more clicks/branches down: R-DF23
3 more clicks/branches down: R-M222
2 more clicks/branches down: R-DF104
1 more click/branch down: R-DF105
1 more click/branch down: R-DF85
3 more clicks/branches down: R-DF97
12 more clicks/branches down and you finally end up at R-BY75435

Anybody on anthrogencia make it all the way to BY75435?

I make it to 27 clicks/branches down before I part ways at P312 to L21.

Once I get to U152 I do have a nice run of largest branch of U152, L2 to largest branch Z49, to largest branch Z142, to largest branch Z12222, but then I'm the 2nd largest branch of Z12222, FGC12378.

A pointless exercise of bragging rights of which anthrogenica member gets the furthest down...Just something to do until the next interesting paper is released.

Soon as I saw the thread title I guessed somewhere in M222 : )

GoldenHind
02-20-2020, 12:38 AM
Soon as I saw the thread title I guessed somewhere in M222 : )

I suspect this is due to the enormous over-weighting in the FTDNA database of Americans with YDNA ancestry from Ireland.

Webb
02-20-2020, 01:10 AM
I’m 8 branches below DF27 using the branching at Ytree.

jdean
02-20-2020, 11:20 AM
I suspect this is due to the enormous over-weighting in the FTDNA database of Americans with YDNA ancestry from Ireland.

Reckon so : )

corner
02-20-2020, 11:30 AM
Looks like I track through the biggest sub-branches of DF27 down as far as prehistoric DF27>ZZ12>FGC78762>ZZ19 and then veer off to a smaller branch after that point: DF27 (n=1694) >ZZ12 (n=957)>FGC78762 (n=458)>ZZ19 (n=353). ZZ19 is a big old subclade making up 21% of DF27 on FTDNA's Haplotree and 37% of DF27>ZZ12.

MacUalraig
02-20-2020, 12:08 PM
Given what we know about the database composition, something under DF97 which is the deepest part of M222 I guess isn't a surprise.

jdean
02-20-2020, 02:17 PM
Given what we know about the database composition, something under DF97 which is the deepest part of M222 I guess isn't a surprise.

Don't know about still, Ireland's history is especially turbulent !!!

Robert1
02-20-2020, 03:19 PM
I made it to R-DF13 before grabbing a shorter branch (L513) eventually leading to NW Scotland.

RobertCasey
02-20-2020, 04:43 PM
R-M222 remains the largest haplogroup under R-M269 that is predictable and chartable AND has the largest number of testers (and Big Y testers). To be predictable and chartable, the haplogroup must be between 1500 and 2500 YBP. It also helps to be genetically isolated which R-M222 certainly is. With over 2700 project members, it has more than its share of Big Y testers to create the maximum number of branches. The next two largest Irish haplogroups that are predictable are CTS4466 and L226. L226 has a branch that is only four levels higher and CTS4466 has a branch that is six levels higher. Of course, all three of these haplogroups are under R-L21 which dominates that FTDNA YDNA database due the influence of American testers that are dominated by western European ancestry. These three Irish haplogroups are prolific in numbers since they are associated with the first kings to rule large portions of Ireland (L226 then M222). Since M222 ruled second and for a longer period, they come in first. Privileges of ruling obviously came at the expense those that were on the losing side. These haplogroups have the advantage of sample size and are what people of smaller haplogroups will see as the total sample grows from 1,000,000 testers to 10,000,000 testers over the next decade or so.

Even Alex Williamson knows the importance of R-M222 since it is such a large haplogroup (it has its own link and page):

https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=93

Note that the TMRCA is 2,080 YBP and that R-M222 has 35 branch equivalents (which contributes to its genetic isolation). These two characteristics make it ideal for YSNP prediction and charting. NEVGEN predicts M222 with 99 % plus accuracy. Also, prediction of M222 can also be accomplished with over 99 % at Y67 with binary logistic regression models via EXCEL formulas:

http://www.rcasey.net/DNA/Temp/M222_Project_20190813A.xlsx

Note that column CB has the actual binary logistic regression model which requires column K (signature match) and L (genetic distance from signature). Look at the Stat Input sheet to see details about the model. This data was entered into the $30 product AcaStat to generate the constants.

Also, R-M222 can be charted. Unfortunately, SAPP can not process more than around 500 testers, so I used only confirmed M222 testers and even had to eliminate a large number to get the number down to around 500:

http://www.rcasey.net/DNA/Temp/M222_SAPP_20190813A.html

Note how SAPP predicts many testers to lower levels than they are confirmed for based on YSTR signatures. For some reason, I did not include surnames in this analysis - but when this information is entered, it quickly identifies surname clusters as well. Charting can be manually done above 500 testers as shown in my L226 chart:

http://www.rcasey.net/DNA/R_L226/Haplotrees/L226_Home.pdf#Page=8

The above chart shows the lowest level of descendants of King Brian Boru (just under 100 Y67 marker testers in this prolific surname cluster). Note how Big Y700 YSNP testing is beginning to run out of steam as five Big Y700 testers only produce one branch and have only six private YSNP across five testers (none match of course).