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Rathna
01-30-2014, 04:49 AM
I have spoken a lot of the wrong R-L23/L150- cluster, also because I have demonstrated before that to put the Italian Romitti in that cluster only for his L150- like Seymour was unacceptable by their markers values. Now we know that L150- were independent mutation in Romitti and Seymour. The other people put in that cluster are all of British descent and closely related, even though divided in two haplotypes. Now we know from Seymour and Ware that they belong to the R-Z2110* haplogroup, which is also mine.
Things are becoming more and more clear. I supposed that that cluster was of Gypsy origin, but only by some English surnames diffused also amongst Gypsies and of the Italian Romitti who could be linked with the name Rom, but if we all belong to the same cluster this hypothesis is wrong, because my family line has been reconstructed till the 1300, thus before Gypsies' migration to Europe, and other observations will demonstrate this.
Now we know that R-Z2110* has been found in Greece (Drakopoulos), in the Balkans/Albany (if the Italian Varipapa is of Arbereshe origin), in Italy (Tognoni), in the Isles (the cluster of Seymour and Ware).
What was known like the EE Cluster is now R-Z2110/CTS9219, and descends from this cluster.
We may see that the motive DYS464=14-15-16-18 is also retained by Romitti and Tognarelli (who very likely are R-Z2110*). I have always said that my DYS464=14-14-16-17 is due to a first mutation of DYS464d from 18 to 17 (from this the diffused motive 14-15-16-17), and my line, which had other mutations, had also DYS464b from 15 to 14.
What to hypothesize from this distribution? We'll know something more (and definitive) when we all do a Full Y (or also a Big Y). But I think that who will be able to compare a Chromo2 with mine will be able to know already something.

Joe B
01-30-2014, 09:05 PM
ISOGG SNP Compendium - Z2110/CTS7822
SNP Name(s).. GRCh37 Y-Pos (hg19).. Mutation

CTS7822 Z2110... 17684699................ A->T
CTS9219............ 18755279................ G->A
Future Research
CTS7959............ 17764622................. A->T
CTS9230............ 18760768................. G->T
CTS11767.......... 23257041................. G->T



ISOGG SNP Compendium Spreadsheet/Y-DNA SNP Index - 2014 (http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_YDNA_SNP_Index.html)

Rathna,
Would you or a monitor please add CTS7822 to the title of this thread. Geno 2.0 people may only know the haplogroup as CTS7822.
Many Thanks

Rathna
01-30-2014, 10:46 PM
Rathna,
Would you or a monitor please add CTS7822 to the title of this thread. Geno 2.0 people may only know the haplogroup as CTS7822.
Many Thanks


I'd do it willing, but I hadn't ever been able to do it, whereas in other forum I did. I don't know if it is possible. Perhaps an administrator is able to do it.

Rathna
01-31-2014, 09:02 AM
I publish here this last letter I wrote to this component of our haplogroup, who has done his research with competence and an open mind, putting his results at disposal of the researchers, looking always for the truth. He is an African-American and probably his Y comes from a Roman soldier, lived in Middle Ages England, expanded in the New World and through an African girl arrived in our researches. This is the incredible adventure of our genes. An Irish I knew some years ago, he too belonging to our haplogroup, after a deep adventure in his Y which ended with the gift of "The Dubliners" read by English actors, ended his last letter by saying: "...but how thick is the Y".

Jan 31, 2014
Hi M., firstly I apologize for my bad English: I should have said "half-brother", because this was just what I thought, and not "step-brother", who of course has no genetic link.
I understand that you are interested above all to your autosome, and you are doing a good research, whereas I am interested above all to your Y, because it is that which is linked to me. Of course you have a few in common with me after thousands of years, if not just your Y, which has been transmitted from father to son pretty unchanged, if not for a few STRs changed values and a few SNPs.
If you are interested to find your paternal line I'd say that that of the Smiths you spoke about is the closest: probably the introgression happened where you thought, from the Smith tested or a close relative. If you want I could say more by comparing your STRs with those of the Smiths.
Of course I am interested to your Y because this and all the other English ones (two haplotypes so far as I have said above) may verify my theory of a probable origin from Roman soldiers during the 4 centuries when Britain was part of the Roman Empire. Of course those soldiers might have come from every part of the Roman Empire and not only from Italy, but from the data at our disposal I think from Italy from the presence of Romitti, who is the closest to the English haplotypes, mine, that of an acquired cousin of mine, Tognarelli, the presence so far of Z2110* in the Balkans but not elsewhere.
Of course you, or every other of the English Z2110*, will be able to contribute to this research for instance by doing:
1) a Chromo2 from BritainsDNA to compare with mine (I have probably 13 new SNPs to investigate): only the raw data (15000 SNPs) are a little expensive. Of course I didn't the autosome and the FMS, already known by 23andMe and FTDNA
2) more expensive is the Big Y of the FTDNA (I haven't done yet, because expensive), which, even though tests about 10Mbp, could give all the SNPs for creating a deep genealogy
3) the best is of course for now the Full Y, but it costs much.
From these data, also our genealogy and probably the origin of our Z2110* will be resolved.

Kind Regards, Gioiello Tognoni

P.S. This could be worth also for anyone of the Z2110/CTS9219*, so we could see how and when CTS9219 is linked and nested in Z2110*.

Joe B
02-01-2014, 05:25 AM
I publish here this last letter I wrote to this component of our haplogroup, who has done his research with competence and an open mind, putting his results at disposal of the researchers, looking always for the truth. He is an African-American and probably his Y comes from a Roman soldier, lived in Middle Ages England, expanded in the New World and through an African girl arrived in our researches. This is the incredible adventure of our genes. An Irish I knew some years ago, he too belonging to our haplogroup, after a deep adventure in his Y which ended with the gift of "The Dubliners" read by English actors, ended his last letter by saying: "...but how thick is the Y".
Thanks for getting in touch with Mr. Ware. He was one of the first to declare himself a Geno 2.0 - CTS7822 haplotype at the FTDNA forum. Please invite him to join this forum.
#64409 Smith from Granada, the Seymours and the Robinsons sort very close to Ware with a DYS607=17 and DYS442=13. This may mean that many of the R1b-Z2103/Z2105 haplotypes attributed to the British Isles may end up being R1b-Z2110/CTS7822.
Thanks for sharing this incredible adventure of our genes.

Joe B
02-13-2014, 02:39 AM
Big shout-out to the Polish FamilyTree DNA Project for being the first project to recognize the R1b-CTS7822/Z2110 subclade.
R1b1a2a1 - Z2103+ CTS7822+ CTS9219+ (nonspecific)
Polish FamilyTree DNA Project - Y-DNA Colorized Chart (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/polish,polish,polish,polish/default.aspx?vgroup=polish%2cpolish%2cpolish%2cpol ish&section=ycolorized) Page 7
Thanks Larry

Joe B
03-08-2014, 01:35 AM
CTS9219 has been added to the YSEQ catalog of SNPs available for the Sanger sequencing test. About half the people that test Z2110/CTS7822+ are also CTS9219+ from the results of Geno 2.0 and Chromo 2.
As of a few minutes ago, FTDNA has not made Z2110/CTS7822 or CTS9219 available for single SNP testing.
Z2110/CTS7822 ISOGG YBrowse http://ybrowse.isogg.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=CTS7822
CTS9219 ISOGG YBrowse http://ybrowse.isogg.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY%3A18755279..18755279

Rathna
03-19-2014, 09:33 AM
An interesting R-Z2110/CTS7822 has appeared in the "Italy FTDNA Project". Unfortunately there aren't his STRs values:
N112516 Giovanni Milani, b. 1881 and d. 1953 R1b1a2a1 R-L150
The interesting thing is that he is also P132 like N29277, Varipapa, I have always thought of Arbereshe origin, thus come from the Balkans.
We don't know anything of this Milani origin. The surname is brought in Italy also from Jewish families rooted in Italy from centuries, the Italian Jews who may be in Italy also from the Roman time.
I think that it will be interesting to deepen all this matter.

P.S. Actually P132 is common to many hg R. I don't understand why smal put it beside N29277 in his tree, as if it were a subclade of Z2110.
Thus no meaning. Varipapa and Milani are Z2110* like me and many others.

smal
03-19-2014, 01:08 PM
N29277; P132? means only that P132 is not positive (probably no call). It does not form a new clade under Z2110.

brygian
03-21-2014, 05:29 AM
Hi, I tested myself with Geno 2 and it turns out that I am R-CTS7822 too. My results will appear on FTDNA and ysearch shortly. I am Pomak from South-Western Bulgaria.