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Sorcelow
04-19-2020, 08:17 PM
My maternal uncle from Lakonia is M223>...>L701, L702>Y5606>L699, L703>S12195* I-PF6896.

I believe it is likely this arrived in Greece with Germanic peoples. Does someone have any further information?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-S12195/

Kelmendasi
04-19-2020, 08:32 PM
There is an Albanian from the town of Pėrmet who is I2a-S12195, however I do not know what exact cluster he belongs to and if he would match your uncle.

Has your uncle done BigY or any other NGS test? I see that on Yfull there is a Greek sample from Karditsa who is S12195>Y5669>Y5670*, the TMRCA for this group is ~5,900ybp and some downstreams are found in Western European nations such as Belgium and France.

Should note that I2a-S12195 was found in a Bronze Age sample from Kalmykia in Russia that belonged to the Yamnaya Culture, so a Bronze Age dispersal of S12195 with IE groups is possible.

Sorcelow
04-19-2020, 08:38 PM
There is an Albanian from the town of Pėrmet who is I2a-S12195, however I do not know what exact cluster he belongs to and if he would match your uncle.

Has your uncle done BigY or any other NGS test? I see that on Yfull there is a Greek sample from Karditsa who is S12195>Y5669>Y5670*, the TMRCA for this group is ~5,900ybp and some downstreams are found in Western European nations such as Belgium and France.

Should note that I2a-S12195 was found in a Bronze Age sample from Kalmykia in Russia that belonged to the Yamnaya Culture.

My uncle has not tested further. All I know is that he is S12195, and more specifically I-PF6896. I cant find this subclade anywhere on full, and I dont know what the TMRCA is but I know a Slovakian belongs to the same clade (according to the M223 group on ftdna).

Is the guy from Permet in the Albanian bloodlines project?

Kelmendasi
04-19-2020, 08:59 PM
My uncle has not tested further. All I know is that he is S12195, and more specifically I-PF6896. I cant find this subclade anywhere on full, and I dont know what the TMRCA is but I know a Slovakian belongs to the same clade (according to the M223 group on ftdna).

Is the guy from Permet in the Albanian bloodlines project?
I have read online that PF6896 is also found in England and France. There is also a I-PF6896 guy with the surname Naqvi, maybe he is the S12195* sample from Iraq? There is little info online about this cluster

I do not believe he is a member anymore, however he is on the other project website http://rrenjet.com/databaza-publike/.

Sorcelow
04-20-2020, 08:00 PM
Y-5606, which my uncle is downstream from, was also found in Yamnaya samples from Bulgaria.

Kelmendasi
04-20-2020, 08:31 PM
Y-5606, which my uncle is downstream from, was also found in Yamnaya samples from Bulgaria.
Yes, I2a-Y5606 has been found in two Bronze Age samples from southern Bulgaria (Mednikarovo and Merichleri). The sample from Mednikarovo belonged to the Yamnaya, whilst the sample from Merichleri is just classified as "Bulgaria_EBA" however it had a significant amount of northeastern input and so definitely had some Yamnaya influence. There was also an I2a-L701* sample from Smyadovo.

The oldest I2a-Y5606 sample was from Neolithic Ukraine (Vovnigi) and may have been from the Mariupol culture. I2a-L701+ clusters clearly have an association with the early cultures of the western Pontic steppe, L701* has been found in samples from Neolithic Ukraine that belong to different sites (Volniensky, Dereivka, Vovnigi) and certain downstreams have been found in later Scythian and Sarmatian samples (I2a-S17511 and I2a-Y7219).

DrWh033
11-08-2021, 02:47 AM
I am also a greek thessalian with I-M223 ( CTS-1977). I think that both I2a1 and I2a2 are protoeuropean spread all over europe.