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Johane Derite
04-20-2020, 12:57 PM
There wasn't a L283 dedicated thread. Here is an image:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVvJKdPWsAA7yMm?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Johane Derite
09-05-2020, 07:40 AM
Trojet's analysis of the oldest J2b-L283 in Europe so far:

"I analyzed the BAM file of the J2b from this paper: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.18.101337v1

Mokrin necropolis, an Early Bronze Age (2,100-1,800 BC) Maros culture site in North Serbia

He is J2b-L283 >> Z615+ (Z584- Z2505-): https://yfull.com/tree/J-Z615/

Male in burial 163, according to the paper: "At the opposite end of the status spectrum, a woman from the burial 181 was very likely the mother of the male in burial 163 and both were buried with grave goods indicative of higher social status (30). Since the male individual was an adult at the time of death, it remains unclear whether he inherited or acquired his status."

Trojet
09-05-2020, 01:36 PM
Trojet's analysis of the oldest J2b-L283 in Europe so far:

"I analyzed the BAM file of the J2b from this paper: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.18.101337v1

Mokrin necropolis, an Early Bronze Age (2,100-1,800 BC) Maros culture site in North Serbia

He is J2b-L283 >> Z615+ (Z584- Z2505-): https://yfull.com/tree/J-Z615/

Male in burial 163, according to the paper: "At the opposite end of the status spectrum, a woman from the burial 181 was very likely the mother of the male in burial 163 and both were buried with grave goods indicative of higher social status (30). Since the male individual was an adult at the time of death, it remains unclear whether he inherited or acquired his status."

Thanks for this dedicated J-L283 thread at Anthrogenica. I'll try to post important updates here as well.

I also checked the Novel SNPs of the two modern J-Z615* samples. I only got negative results, so this ancient sample remains at J-Z615* and lived around 1000 years after this mutation formed (https://yfull.com/tree/J-Z615/).

The downstream branch, J-Z597 (TMRCA 4400 ybp), looks pretty western Balkan, so it likely moved further west around the time this Mokrin sample lived. We already have I4331, dated ~3600 ybp, from southern Croatia which was J-Z597>Z2507>Y15058. And recently a BigY tester with origin from Krk, Croatia, tested Y146400+ FGC64027+ FGC64043-, which means he is splitting YFull's J-Y146400 (https://yfull.com/tree/J-Y146400/) branch:
https://i.imgur.com/2hXqSDx.png

The expansion between J-L283 and Z615 looks less clear. We need older aDNA to understand this better, but my impression is it came via northern Black Sea route (per YFull estimates sometime between 6000 ybp and 4500 ybp), considering the ancient J-L283* from north Caucasus, and the modern Armenian J-L283*.

Archetype0ne
09-12-2020, 02:10 AM
There wasn't a L283 dedicated thread. Here is an image:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVvJKdPWsAA7yMm?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Thanks for starting the dedicated thread Johane. In case you made the graphic could you add the Basarab/Draculesti dynasties to the graphic?

Thanks in advance.

Polska
10-21-2020, 07:50 PM
Question: When is this paper on the Ezero Culture and surrounding area going to be released? I’m wondering if there might be some ancient L283 samples that come to light? My understanding is that the samples are still being analyzed by the Reich Lab at Harvard. I have read that nothing will be published until 2021, but I’ve also seen some comments online indicating something might come out this year.

There are these basal ancient samples from Karbino Balkaria and Armenia, the rest of the ancient samples are in Europe with the Z600 and YP91 L283 in Sardinia, the Y15058 in Croatia/Dalmatian Highlands, and now the oldest yet, Z615 from the Mokrin location, about 4000 years old. This Z615 is upstream from Z597, which proliferated in the Balkans and branched out from there. So it makes it seem like L283 came from a location further north than Balkans, but how did it get there from Caucasus? North of Black Sea route makes most sense to me, but still waiting on ancient samples from north of Black Sea or near vicinity (in vc of western steppe?) to bolster this hypothetical migratory route.

eastara
10-28-2020, 04:12 AM
Question: When is this paper on the Ezero Culture and surrounding area going to be released? I’m wondering if there might be some ancient L283 samples that come to light? My understanding is that the samples are still being analyzed by the Reich Lab at Harvard. I have read that nothing will be published until 2021, but I’ve also seen some comments online indicating something might come out this year.



In fact there is already one published Ezero sample in the study The Genomic History Of Southeastern Europe"". This is Bul10, Bulgaria_Ezero_EBA 3090-2924 calBCE (439620 BP, MAMS 26835), unfortuinately afemale. It shows normal admixture like other Balkan Early Bronze age sample with less Yamnaya, than Bul4 Yamnaya_Bulgaria from around the same age 3012-2900 cal BCE (433320 BP, MAMS-26834). The Early Bronze age North of the Balkan mountains was influenced directly from Yamnaya and the steppes, while South is in the area of the Aegean culture.
No doubt Reich's lab has more unpublished samples from that study, the new ones from the contemplated Big Study from Bulgaria has not been even sent yet. Many people think that there is some hurdle from the Bulgarian side and this study may not go ahead. Meanwhile old bones are sent to European labs.

Polska
10-30-2020, 08:14 PM
Interesting. Thanks for info, Eastara.

xripkan
12-01-2020, 12:25 AM
Would it be right to suggest that J-L283 was expanded in Western Balkans during Early Bronze Age? Was it a common haplogroup among ancient Illyrians and Pannonians?

Trojet
12-01-2020, 08:08 PM
A person from West Hungary is tested J-L283+ and S23613- through YSEQ. This is a J-Z622 SNP so he is ~J-L283*, and at 15/37 very distant with the Armenian on YFull. He has a WGS on order, so we should see him on YFull at some point.

Btw, ORC007 is not J-L283* as he has one positive read for Z622. To me ORC007 cannot be placed confidently below Z622 due to low coverage, although I think odds are he is J-Z600>YP157 like the other ancient Sardinians which are from the same site and timeframe.

Maximus
12-10-2020, 07:40 PM
Hi! Is there any new information on the spread of J-Y21878 in the Balkans and Albania?