PDA

View Full Version : Archaeological Indo-European and Iranian Y-DNA J1 - Database



RCO
04-20-2020, 11:59 PM
When Yamnaya Steppe Culture DNA was discovered a big question remained unanswered, the origin of a part of the admixture: Depending on the interpretation - CHG_NearEastern_Iran
Now we have found another Male vector in some of the oldest groups : Y-DNA J1

I6221 - Mongolia_Chalcolithic_1_Afanasievo - Bayankhongor aimag, Erdenetsogt sum, Shatar chuluu kurgan 2 mtDNA [email protected] / The Genomic Formation of Human Populations in East Asia Wang et al. bioRxiv 2020.
SHT002 - SHT002.A0101 SHT002.A0101 M U5a1 J1a (J-CTS5368) A dynamic 6,000-year genetic history of Eurasia’s Eastern Steppe - Choongwon Jeong et al. bioRxiv 2020.
Two preprints with the same investigation.

Yamnaya-Like Khvalynsk Y-DNA J1 - Dispersals and Diversification Linguistic and Archaeological Perspectives on the Early Stages of Indo-European - Ancient DNA, Mating Networks, and the Anatolian Split. By: David W. Anthony - We don't know the branch !

The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia via Pribislav :
I1784; 2201-2031 BC; Gonur; Turkmenistan; BMAC; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592
I12481; 3500-2800 BC; Geoksyur; Turkmenistan; Geoksyur_EN; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592
I8504; 3092-2925 BC; Geoksyur; Turkmenistan; Geoksyur_EN; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592


Gonur Tomb 2380 sample 17 (I1784): Dateof 2201-2031 calBCE (3720±30 BP, Poz-83485). Genetically male. Nicknamed the ‘Tomb of the Warrior,’ this was skeletally a male, 40 to 50 years old at the time of his death, flexed supine and oriented north-northwest. The neck of the man was broken, and this was the probable cause of his death. He was buried in a shaft grave on the southeast edge of the large cemetery. This very rich grave was accompanied by one bronze knife, one silver plate, one bronze vessel (diameter 16 cm and height12 cm), one bronze mace head in the form of a horse head, one bronze mace head with four spikes, one bronze semi-cylindrical artifact near the head, one bronze leaf-shaped arrowhead near the pelvis, and one bronze plate with perforations wrapped in linen cloth near the right shin. Quintessential IE.

Of course PIE was not invented at once or invented immediately, just like several other family of languages PIE had a long history during the Mesolithic. I defend the position that Y-DNA J bushy Mesolithic branches were related in the past to several previous separations of PIE.

I have always researched, written and demonstrated the association of some specific J1 branches with the modern and ancient Iranian populations.

The Eastern side of the Westernmost Europeans: Insights from subclades within Y‐chromosome haplogroup J‐M304

konian lusitanum
04-21-2020, 08:01 AM
L620 is ancestor of L136, seems m365.1 and L136 are brothers ? and then we from from indo - iranian origins ? and we end up in the same place as today ?

RCO
04-21-2020, 12:09 PM
J1-L620 was formed around 18300 ybp and downstream of L620 we have FGC6064 formed 15600 ybp (I discovered with my test) and PF4816, so almost 3.000 years from L620 to FGC6064/PF4816. More 1000 years to reach L136 formed 14600 ybp. Upstream of L620 we have Z2217 and the next closest are Z2215 and Y6305 (modern J1b and Satsurblias's branch) all formed formed 18300 ybp with different groups, ethnicites and languages, so we have the location, bifurcations and trails of J1 branches after the LGM Renaissance and the Bølling–Allerød warming around 14,500 BP-13,000 BP. FGC6064, PF4816 and L136 were formed in Northern Middle Eastern and they also had and transported autosomal components from that region to the South when a new branch J1-P58 expanded to Southern Mesopotamia, Levant and Arabia afterwards. We can relate Iranian components with J1 moving to the South, just like other J1 and J2 who moved to the West, to West Anatolia, the Meditarranean, Greece, Southern Italy, "The spread of steppe and Iranian-related ancestry in the islands of the western Mediterranean" and to Africa, "West Asian sources of the Eurasian component in Ethiopians: a reassessment". M365 was an ancient SNP discovered in the first days of J1 exploration but as in other SNPs it is recurrent in other haplogroups, so we can use other SNPs as well. We don't have a good article about Iranian J1 SNPs (ou any other major Iranian haplogroup) and the best source still is (extinct) SMGF samples only with STRs.

Jatt1
04-21-2020, 11:48 PM
When Yamnaya Steppe Culture DNA was discovered a big question remained unanswered, the origin of a part of the admixture: Depending on the interpretation - CHG_NearEastern_Iran
Now we have found another Male vector in some of the oldest groups : Y-DNA J1

I6221 - Mongolia_Chalcolithic_1_Afanasievo - Bayankhongor aimag, Erdenetsogt sum, Shatar chuluu kurgan 2 mtDNA [email protected] / The Genomic Formation of Human Populations in East Asia Wang et al. bioRxiv 2020.
SHT002 - SHT002.A0101 SHT002.A0101 M U5a1 J1a (J-CTS5368) A dynamic 6,000-year genetic history of Eurasia’s Eastern Steppe - Choongwon Jeong et al. bioRxiv 2020.
Two preprints with the same investigation.

Yamnaya-Like Khvalynsk Y-DNA J1 - Dispersals and Diversification Linguistic and Archaeological Perspectives on the Early Stages of Indo-European - Ancient DNA, Mating Networks, and the Anatolian Split. By: David W. Anthony - We don't know the branch !

The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia via Pribislav :
I1784; 2201-2031 BC; Gonur; Turkmenistan; BMAC; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592
I12481; 3500-2800 BC; Geoksyur; Turkmenistan; Geoksyur_EN; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592
I8504; 3092-2925 BC; Geoksyur; Turkmenistan; Geoksyur_EN; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592

Quintessential IE.

Of course PIE was not invented at once or invented immediately, just like several other family of languages PIE had a long history during the Mesolithic. I defend the position that Y-DNA J bushy Mesolithic branches were related in the past to several previous separations of PIE.

I have always researched, written and demonstrated the association of some specific J1 branches with the modern and ancient Iranian populations.

Have I ever asked you for your opinion on https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-ZS3698/? If not, please do respond, will appreciate your input.

RCO
04-22-2020, 12:53 PM
Hello, yes, I have seen your interesting branch before and you have a possible Northern Middle Eastern connection because it's a rare branch J-ZS3698 formed 5600 ybp, TMRCA 5600 ybp, not found in the Southern Semitic tribes (they are very recent, compact, crowded and easily identifiable) and with a Northern match. I hope you can find more matches as a way to find your route, geography and trail of SNPs.

konian lusitanum
04-23-2020, 02:22 AM
as you have a haplogroup origin and perhaps a destination , as mine just trough different routes do you match in your autosomal DNA with UKRAINE?

RCO
04-23-2020, 04:31 PM
I have some Eastern European DNA via female origins but not relevant here. Autosomal DNA is not necessarily related to Y-DNA in major haplogroups.

My Y-DNA J1 lineage in three moments and three geographies:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-FGC6064/

3000 BC Ancient Iranian peoples - Iranian frontiers
37268

1000 AD - Atlantic Minho-Douro - Northern Portuguese frontier
37269

1500/1600/1700 AD - Brazilian frontier
37270

J Man
04-23-2020, 04:54 PM
Since so far only certain types of J1 have shown up among EHG, Afanasievo and Khavalynsk it seems like in the distant past certain clades of J1 may have existed further north than J2.

ADW_1981
04-23-2020, 05:21 PM
When Yamnaya Steppe Culture DNA was discovered a big question remained unanswered, the origin of a part of the admixture: Depending on the interpretation - CHG_NearEastern_Iran
Now we have found another Male vector in some of the oldest groups : Y-DNA J1

I6221 - Mongolia_Chalcolithic_1_Afanasievo - Bayankhongor aimag, Erdenetsogt sum, Shatar chuluu kurgan 2 mtDNA [email protected] / The Genomic Formation of Human Populations in East Asia Wang et al. bioRxiv 2020.
SHT002 - SHT002.A0101 SHT002.A0101 M U5a1 J1a (J-CTS5368) A dynamic 6,000-year genetic history of Eurasia’s Eastern Steppe - Choongwon Jeong et al. bioRxiv 2020.
Two preprints with the same investigation.

Yamnaya-Like Khvalynsk Y-DNA J1 - Dispersals and Diversification Linguistic and Archaeological Perspectives on the Early Stages of Indo-European - Ancient DNA, Mating Networks, and the Anatolian Split. By: David W. Anthony - We don't know the branch !

The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia via Pribislav :
I1784; 2201-2031 BC; Gonur; Turkmenistan; BMAC; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592
I12481; 3500-2800 BC; Geoksyur; Turkmenistan; Geoksyur_EN; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592
I8504; 3092-2925 BC; Geoksyur; Turkmenistan; Geoksyur_EN; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592

Quintessential IE.

Of course PIE was not invented at once or invented immediately, just like several other family of languages PIE had a long history during the Mesolithic. I defend the position that Y-DNA J bushy Mesolithic branches were related in the past to several previous separations of PIE.

I have always researched, written and demonstrated the association of some specific J1 branches with the modern and ancient Iranian populations.

The early graves of R1b1* in Xiongnu are partly modeled as the Gonur_BMAC as well. So I suspect there was a contact zone between R1b1*-J1 very early before the spread of the major R1a-Z93 branches eastward. Don't the R1b-Z2103 Chemurchek model as Gonur Bmac too?

RCO
04-23-2020, 10:36 PM
Yes, we are only beggining to understand how Yamnaya was formed and we already know they had important differences and several layers. The more we investigate the genesis of Yamnaya the more we know and I hope new samples are going to be obtained to understand The Arrival of CHG-NearEastern-Iran to the steppe.

Mongolia_EBA_2_Chemurchek and Xinjiang_China_EIA_Shirenzigou were related to the new Afanasievo_Mongolian Samples with J1 (pg30)



101 The second
102 spread of Yamnaya-derived ancestry came via groups that harbored about a
103 third of their ancestry from European farmers, which nearly completely
104 displaced unmixed Yamnaya-related lineages in Mongolia in the second
105 millennium BCE, but did not replace Afanasievo lineages in western China
106 where Afanasievo ancestry persisted, plausibly acting as the source of the early
107 splitting Tocharian branch of Indo-European languages.

The Genomic Formation of Human Populations in East Asia - 2020
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.25.004606v1.full.pdf



208 We find that these Chemurchek individuals (Chemurchek_Altai) are
209 genetically similar to Dali_EBA (Fig. 3a), a contemporaneous individual from eastern
210 Kazakhstan (Narasimhan et al., 2019). The genetic profiles of both the Yagshiin Huduu and
211 Dali_EBA individuals are well fitted by two-way admixture models with Botai (60-78%) and
212 groups with ancient Iranian-related ancestry, such as Gonur1_BA from Gonur Tepe, a key EBA
213 site of the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex (BMAC) (22-40%; Table S15; Fig. 3a),
214 and ancient individuals from post-BMAC Bronze Age sites in southeastern Uzbekistan (Table
215 S15).



286 Three MLBA individuals in our dataset present genetic profiles that cannot be fully explained
287 by the Altai_MLBA cline. The Altai Mönkhkhairkhan individual UAA001 matches with 3-
288 way admixture models using Khövsgöl_LBA/Baikal_EBA as the eastern Eurasian source,
289 Afanasievo as the WSH source (but not Sintashta), and adding Gonur1_BA as a third source
290 (Table S16). Thus, a minor Iranian-related ancestry component is necessary to model this
291 individual’s genetic profile, as reflected by his displacement along PC2 in Fig. 2. We also find
292 that the culturally unclassified Altai individual KHI001 may need additional ancestry from
293 Gonur1_BA to improve the existing 2-way admixture model. Last, UUS001, despite coming
294 from a DSKC context in Khövsgöl province, fits better with a 3-way model of using
295 eastMongolia_preBA and Gonur1_BA with Sintashta as the WSH source.

A dynamic 6,000-year genetic history of Eurasia’s Eastern Steppe
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.25.008078v1.full.pdf


Last but not least:

1 Early Bronze Age (~2900 BCE) Yamnaya sample from Karagash, Kazakhstan(16) (YamnayaKaragash_EBA; 25.2X)


while the YamnayaKaragash_EBA sample has additional CHG ancestry and locates to the left with other Yamnaya and Afanasievo samples(...) Consistent with previous results (1, 2), we observe a contribution from YamnayaKaragash_EBA to present-day Europeans. Conversely, Botai_CA shows greater affinity to Central Asian, Siberian, and Native American populations, coupled with some sharing with northeastern European groups at a lower level than that for Yamnaya, due to their ANE ancestry.,

The First Horse Herders and the Impact of Early Bronze Age Steppe Expansions into Asia - 2018
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6748862/

RCO
10-24-2020, 01:11 AM
They released the BAM files today - BAM Files is Available (A dynamic 6,000-year genetic history of Eurasia's Eastern ) - David Bush.
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22033-BAM-Files-is-Available-(A-dynamic-6-000-year-genetic-history-of-Eurasia-s-Eastern-)


SHT002; 3107-2917 BC; Shatar Chuluu, Bayankhongor Aimag; Mongolia; Afanasievo_EBA; J1a-Z2215>Z2217>CTS1026>pre-Y136727 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y136727/)

Y136727 level: Y136738+ A>T (3T); Y136786+ A>G (1G); Y136757+ C>T (6T); BY115027+ C>T (2T); Y136745+ G>A (3A); Y136728- C>T (1C)

Y136727>BY56527 level: *no calls*

I think he belonged to the J1 population (one of the lineages) that brought the ancient Iranian component to the steppe.
Afanasievo's J1 is parallel to Z1828 and Z1842, J1's biggest Caucasian (from the Caucasus Mountains) branch, so they had been closer to the Caucasus and they took part or formed part of the ancient Iranian population responsible for the CHG/Iranian admixture in the nearby steppe.

This week we also had another article relating the big evidence of the connection between ancient Iran-related ancestry and Y chromosome haplogroup J1:
The Genomic History of the Middle East - Mohamed A. Almarri, Marc Haber, Reem A. Lootah, Pille Hallast, Saeed Al Turki, Hilary C. Martin,, Yali Xue, Chris Tyler-Smith
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.18.342816v1.full.pdf



133 In addition to the local ancestry from Epipaleolithic/Neolithic people, we find an ancestry
134 related to ancient Iranians that is ubiquitous today in all Middle Easterners (orange
135 component in Figure 1C; Table S1). Previous studies showed that this ancestry was not
136 present in the Levant during the Neolithic period, but appears in the Bronze Age where
139 ~50% of the local ancestry was replaced by a population carrying ancient Iran-related
140 ancestry (Lazaridis et al., 2016). We explored whether this ancestry penetrated both the
141 Levant and Arabia at the same time, and found that admixture dates mostly followed a North
142 to South cline, with the oldest admixture occurring in the Levant region between 3,900 and
143 5,600 ya (Table S3), followed by admixture in Egypt (2,900-4,700 ya), East Africa (2,200-
144 3,300) and Arabia (2,000-3,800). These times overlap with the dates for the Bronze Age
145 origin and spread of Semitic languages in the Middle East and East Africa estimated from
146 lexical data (Kitchen et al., 2009; Figure S8). This population potentially introduced the Y
147 chromosome haplogroup J1 into the region (Chiaroni et al., 2010; Lazaridis et al., 2016). The
148 majority of the J1 haplogroup chromosomes in our dataset coalesce around ~5.6 [95% CI,
149 4.8-6.5] kya, agreeing with a potential Bronze Age expansion; however, we do find rarer
150 earlier diverged lineages coalescing ~17 kya (Figure S9).


Now let's wait the results of Khvalynsk Y-DNA J1 !

RCO
11-01-2020, 10:37 AM
Another corrected early Y-DNA J1 Scythian, Tasmola culture

Shifts in the Genetic Landscape of the Western Eurasian Steppe Associated with the Beginning and End of the Scythian Dominance
Mari Jarve et al.
https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdfExtended/S0960-9822(19)30712-2
Jarve et al., 2019, Current Biology 29, 2430–2441
July 22, 2019 ª 2019 Elsevier Ltd.
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2019.06.019


MJ-52 UT-4-17 Scy_Kaz Eastern Scythian Tooth, M3 Tooth, M3 Shetsky District, Karagandinsk Region, Kazakhstan 48.7493583 N, 73.6997028 E Aksu-Ayuly-4 Mound 3 2800-2400 BP 2535 ± 30 2748-2496 BP Steppe, eastern part of the Kazakh Upland. The mound (2.2 x 3.2 m, height 0.15 m) was partially destroyed. The rectangular grave pit (0.8 x 1.95 m, depth 0.8 m) with sloping walls was oriented from NW to SE. A male skeleton lay extended on its back on the bottom of the pit, head oriented to the NW. 1998



This is MJ-52? In the calls provided by Kolgeh, he is positive for 2 SNPs at the L620 level (Z2357 and Z2372), but negative for 1 SNP at L136 level (CTS3101) and 1 SNP at P58 level (CTS4823). The original paper says he was assigned to J1-P58 based on 3/10 positions (so pre-P58?). Has anyone had a closer look at this one?




MJ-52 is a really low quality sample, but he definitely isn't P58:


MJ-52; 798-546 BC; Aksu-Ayulu; Kazakhstan; Scythian_IA; J1a-L620 (xL136,P58) (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L620/)


L620 level: PF4734/AM01322/Z1868/CTS6954+ C>T (1T); Z2372/CTS10230/PF4823+ G>A (1A)

L620>FGC6064 level: *no calls*

L620>FGC6064>Y59693 level: *no calls*

L620>FGC6064>FGC6031 level: FGC6126- A>T (1A); FGC6068- G>T (1G); FGC6167- T>C (1T)

L620>PF4816 level: *no calls*

L620>PF4816>ZS6599 & below: *no calls*

L620>PF4816>L136 level: AM01332/Z2369/PF4821- C>T (1C); AM01308/CTS3101- G>A (1G)

L620>PF4816>L136>P58 level: Y2312/FGC7632/S9250- A>G (1A); PF4654- A>C (1A)


My best bet would be that this sample is somewhere below ZS6599, since this clade was already found in several (pre-)BMAC samples from Geoksyur and Gonur.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22033-BAM-Files-is-Available-(A-dynamic-6-000-year-genetic-history-of-Eurasia-s-Eastern-)/page11

- The original authors wrongly wrote that MJ-52 was typed "as belonging to haplogroup J1b-P58 based on 3 informative positions out of 10" - Of course he is not P58 but could be M365, the former J1b classification ?

Is MJ-52 positive to M365 ?

So we have another important J1 in the Steppe from the expected ancient Iranic branches as usual.

Coldmountains
11-01-2020, 12:26 PM
When Yamnaya Steppe Culture DNA was discovered a big question remained unanswered, the origin of a part of the admixture: Depending on the interpretation - CHG_NearEastern_Iran
Now we have found another Male vector in some of the oldest groups : Y-DNA J1

I6221 - Mongolia_Chalcolithic_1_Afanasievo - Bayankhongor aimag, Erdenetsogt sum, Shatar chuluu kurgan 2 mtDNA [email protected] / The Genomic Formation of Human Populations in East Asia Wang et al. bioRxiv 2020.
SHT002 - SHT002.A0101 SHT002.A0101 M U5a1 J1a (J-CTS5368) A dynamic 6,000-year genetic history of Eurasia’s Eastern Steppe - Choongwon Jeong et al. bioRxiv 2020.
Two preprints with the same investigation.

Yamnaya-Like Khvalynsk Y-DNA J1 - Dispersals and Diversification Linguistic and Archaeological Perspectives on the Early Stages of Indo-European - Ancient DNA, Mating Networks, and the Anatolian Split. By: David W. Anthony - We don't know the branch !

The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia via Pribislav :
I1784; 2201-2031 BC; Gonur; Turkmenistan; BMAC; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592
I12481; 3500-2800 BC; Geoksyur; Turkmenistan; Geoksyur_EN; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592
I8504; 3092-2925 BC; Geoksyur; Turkmenistan; Geoksyur_EN; J1-L620>PF4816>ZS6599>ZS4428>ZS6592

Quintessential IE.

Of course PIE was not invented at once or invented immediately, just like several other family of languages PIE had a long history during the Mesolithic. I defend the position that Y-DNA J bushy Mesolithic branches were related in the past to several previous separations of PIE.

I have always researched, written and demonstrated the association of some specific J1 branches with the modern and ancient Iranian populations.

The Y-DNA J clades which possibly existed among Proto-Iranics and Proto-Indo-Iranians are unlikely the same branches we see among later Saka or BMAC. For now I dont think that Proto-Iranics and Proto-Indo-Iranians of Fatyanovo-Abashevo and Sintashta will show the clades found among BMAC or Geokysur. Steppe J clades could exist among Proto-Iranics but it does not seem that they make a big part of any later Iranic Y-DNA. I have not seen hard evidences for that yet. Also the Afansievo J1 diverged from most Iranian J1 clades more than 15000 years ago. The J1 among Karelian HGs and in Khvalynsk is likely even more diverged. J1 is very old and has subbranches with very different origins and migration histories. Just like some specific I2a clades J1 clades seem to be present among PIEs but we need to look very close at the specific clades and snps because J1 was in the PIE and Proto-Indo-Iranian period already present in much of West Eurasia.

RCO
11-01-2020, 02:38 PM
The Iranian (general) autosomal component developed and coalesced after the LGM as a distinct and specific population, so it was a long process related to deep and bushy Iranian Y-DNA J (J1 and J2) branches completely different from the shallow and recent Bronze Age R1a and R1b grafted branches. The Iranian J1 branches were born and have been in the core Iranian areas for a long time, since the original Iranian autosomal and proto-linguistic ethnogenesis, so we can find them in all ancient periods and regions of the "Iranian" Steppe, we can find J1 types in different populations and languages, from Hungarian Conquerors to Mongolian Afanasievo, so we can find them in the main original populations found everywhere and not only in derived, admixed and peripherical groups that expanded and drifted later like R1b and R1a newbies. Be prepared because we are going to find more J1 samples in almost all moments of the history of the Iranian/CHG autosomal component presence in the Steppe. I remember when the first ancient Y-DNA J1 was found in 2015, before Eppie Jones publication about Satsurblia J1 and of course they found two Sarmatian Y-DNA J1 samples and since then we have been finding more and more types of J1 in almost all good articles about the "Iranian" Steppe populations. We are just confirming the antiquity and extension of Iranian J1 branches in the entire history and geography of the Steppe, other haplogroups can try to compete with the diversity of branches and locations where J1 has been found and many more Steppe J1 samples are coming !
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5383-Saltovo-Mayaki-Results - 2015, the first thread of Iranian and Sarmatian J1's here !

J Man
11-01-2020, 02:52 PM
The Y-DNA J clades which possibly existed among Proto-Iranics and Proto-Indo-Iranians are unlikely the same branches we see among later Saka or BMAC. For now I dont think that Proto-Iranics and Proto-Indo-Iranians of Fatyanovo-Abashevo and Sintashta will show the clades found among BMAC or Geokysur. Steppe J clades could exist among Proto-Iranics but it does not seem that they make a big part of any later Iranic Y-DNA. I have not seen hard evidences for that yet. Also the Afansievo J1 diverged from most Iranian J1 clades more than 15000 years ago. The J1 among Karelian HGs and in Khvalynsk is likely even more diverged. J1 is very old and has subbranches with very different origins and migration histories. Just like some specific I2a clades J1 clades seem to be present among PIEs but we need to look very close at the specific clades and snps because J1 was in the PIE and Proto-Indo-Iranian period already present in much of West Eurasia.

The only J types found among Saka samples so far are specific J2a clades. At some point in the past J1 seems to have diminished and J2a types became more common among ancient Iranic and later Turkic steppe peoples.

Pribislav
11-01-2020, 04:16 PM
The original authors wrongly wrote that MJ-52 was typed "as belonging to haplogroup J1b-P58 based on 3 informative positions out of 10" - Of course he is not P58 but could be M365, the former J1b classification?

Is MJ-52 positive to M365?

MJ-52 has no reads for M365, but has three other ancestral SNPs at FGC6031 level: FGC6126- A>T (1A), FGC6068- G>T (1G) and FGC6167- T>C (1T).

RCO
11-01-2020, 05:47 PM
Thank you !

RCO
03-13-2021, 01:58 PM
We can observe some modern J1 clades related to Indo-European and Indo-Iranian vanguards/languages and expansions in different places.

Westernmost J1-FGC6064 in Portugal, Iran, Armenia, Kurds. Our Portuguese cluster has been the first to discover and trace this ancient lineage. As we know Portugal was a small Christian society around the year 1000 AD between the Minho and Douro rivers with a population of (circa de) 50000 and strong lineages growing with the posterior expansion of the Kingdom and Empire but we can find some Portuguese mainstream Y-DNA founders/lineages since the origins of this polity and Imperial formation with a distinct ethnic language, religion, State and warlike culture.

Now we are discovering some Ancient Iranian lineages from the other extreme of Indo-European expansion in Eurasia.

Easternmost J1-PH128- PF7256. Chinese WGC059850D They belong to Chinese Tajik or Pamir from Xinjiang speaking Sarikoli, one Eastern Iranian language https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-PH128/ with another Pakistani Kashmiri - SAMC013035.
We can find other North-Western and Punjabi Pakistani J1-Y29696 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y29696/ They have some ancient ramifications also found in Northern Syria connecting Northern Middle East with Central Asia in the same Indo-European continuum as in https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-ZS3290*/

RCO
04-05-2021, 07:08 PM
The same J1 lineage from Gonur and Geoksyur found in Eastern Kazakhstan !

MMR001.A0101 Mayemer-II mound 1 7th-5th c. BCE Mayemer-II_600_BCE
MMR001.A0101 Mayemer-II mound 1 Steppe_Central_Nomad_IA Mayemer-II_600_BCE MMR001.out Kazakhstan -600 C4a1a4a J-M304
J1>M267>CTS12238>Z2217>L620>PF4832>ZS6599>ZS6602>ZS6592
Early Saka period
Mayemer, on the left bank of the Narym River, in the Katonkaragai district of East Kazakhstan region.
Ancient genomic time transect from the Central Asian Steppe unravels the history ofthe Scythians
Source: https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/y-dna-scythians-sarmatians-sargat.png

Agamemnon
04-09-2021, 06:23 PM
The same J1 lineage from Gonur and Geoksyur found in Eastern Kazakhstan !

MMR001.A0101 Mayemer-II mound 1 7th-5th c. BCE Mayemer-II_600_BCE
MMR001.A0101 Mayemer-II mound 1 Steppe_Central_Nomad_IA Mayemer-II_600_BCE MMR001.out Kazakhstan -600 C4a1a4a J-M304
J1>M267>CTS12238>Z2217>L620>PF4832>ZS6599>ZS6602>ZS6592
Early Saka period
Mayemer, on the left bank of the Narym River, in the Katonkaragai district of East Kazakhstan region.
Ancient genomic time transect from the Central Asian Steppe unravels the history ofthe Scythians
Source: https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/y-dna-scythians-sarmatians-sargat.png

Added (https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1yOAdOcVbdDR7UpkOvU_ZI7UbbHQAHK-G&usp=sharing), from the supplement:

MayemerII
●Mayemer II mound 1 (MMR001.A)
The Mayemer II burial ground is a funeral-memorial complex consisting of burials of different eras -
from the era of the early nomads to the Turkic times. The monument is located on the southeastern outskirts
of the modern village Mayemer, on the left bank of the Narym River, in the Katonkaragai district of East
Kazakhstan region.
Three mounds were investigated - 1, 2 and 3. Mounds 2 and 3 are attributed to the Early Saka period. Of
these, mound 2 turned out to be a burial (funeral) structure, and mound 3 was a memorial. Mound 1 was
plundered. The skeleton of the deceased (MMR001.A) was disturbed and the bones were scattered. There were
no accompanying items found in the mound. The chronological define of the mound 1 was made on the basis
of an analogy with the construction of the burial structure. In East Kazakhstan and adjacent territories, similar
constructions are dated by the Turkic time (82, 83).