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mokordo
05-22-2020, 09:54 PM
I am one of those strange Spaniards with r1a, my paternal side is from Andalusia, I can trace my paternal ancestry there till 1840´s , and the last paternal ancestor I could find had Spanish surname.Always in the same zone of Andalusia.

Obtained with MyHeritage raw data in morley´s predictor and Cladefinder.

Could someone tell me what subclade am I? Am I Z2125?

Morley´s predictor:

https://i.imgur.com/2Qh3WDf.png

https://i.imgur.com/NpUcDCn.png

Cladefinder:

https://i.imgur.com/I4JW0MS.png

https://i.imgur.com/E58xMMz.png

ArmandoR1b
05-23-2020, 05:54 PM
I just looked at the MyHeritage files of two different people that are positive for R1b subclades and they both show derived for Z2125 and for SRY10831.2/Page65/PF6234/SRY1532. So those are false positives for most people tested by MyHeritage.

You are definitely positive for M417 and Z651/F3044/V4100 so it is just Z2125 that is questionable for you. You should get the R1a Superclade Panel at https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=56701 to find your subclade.

Kulin
05-23-2020, 06:02 PM
Aaronbee2010 knows more about haplogroups.


......

mokordo
05-23-2020, 06:50 PM
I just looked at the MyHeritage files of two different people that are positive for R1b subclades and they both show derived for Z2125 and for SRY10831.2/Page65/PF6234/SRY1532. So those are false positives for most people tested by MyHeritage.

You are definitely positive for M417 and Z651/F3044/V4100 so it is just Z2125 that is questionable for you. You should get the R1a Superclade Panel at https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=56701 to find your subclade.

And go directly to the R Z93 panel would be a mistake, in your opinion?

ArmandoR1b
05-24-2020, 12:27 AM
Aaronbee2010 knows more about haplogroups.
Is that supposed to be a statement against my post? My analysis is solid and he would not be able to contradict what I reported.

ArmandoR1b
05-24-2020, 12:44 AM
And go directly to the R Z93 panel would be a mistake, in your opinion?

There is a risk that you are ancestral (negative) for R-Z93. The odds are against it using the stats at YFull but the R Z93 panel would be a waste of money if you are ancestral for Z93. It is only an extra $11 for the R1a Superclade Panel as opposed to the R1a-Z93 Panel. Spending an extra $11 to be on the safe side is definitely worth it. Más vale prevenir que lamentar.

Kulin
05-24-2020, 01:31 AM
Is that supposed to be a statement against my post? My analysis is solid and he would not be able to contradict what I reported.

No, I tagged him so he can help OP.

The statement was a reference to my own knowledge.

mokordo
05-24-2020, 01:45 AM
There is a risk that you are ancestral (negative) for R-Z93. The odds are against it using the stats at YFull but the R Z93 panel would be a waste of money if you are ancestral for Z93. It is only an extra $11 for the R1a Superclade Panel as opposed to the R1a-Z93 Panel. Spending an extra $11 to be on the safe side is definitely worth it. Más vale prevenir que lamentar.

And seeing what you have seen, which subclade do you guess I am most likely?

Which subclade would you bet I am?

ArmandoR1b
05-24-2020, 01:58 AM
No, I tagged him so he can help OP.

The statement was a reference to my own knowledge.

Fair enough. However, I don't see how he can provide additional help from what I have given since MyHeritage tests a limited number of SNPs and there aren't any other SNPs tested by MyHeritage that can provide additional information.

ArmandoR1b
05-24-2020, 02:10 AM
And seeing what you have seen, which subclade do you guess I am most likely?

Which subclade would you bet I am?

The odds are that you are positive for a subclade of Z93. Do a search of ESP at https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z93/ to see the samples with a direct paternal ancestor from Spain.

FTDNA has a few more Z93 samples with ancestry from Spain at https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/R;name=R-Z93 but to find the country report for each subclade you have to keep clicking on subclades, which is a pain in the ass, or left click on the three dot menu button on the right and select country report for a country total for all subclades downstream from that point.

There is no way for me to make a logical guess as to which subclade of Z93 you belong to.

aaronbee2010
05-24-2020, 02:39 AM
Is that supposed to be a statement against my post? My analysis is solid and he would not be able to contradict what I reported.

I already saw your initial post in this thread so I decided that there was no reason to do so myself.

On another note, how did you manage to interpret what Kulin said as a "statement" against your post? What reason would a moderator of all people have to do this?

Kulin
05-24-2020, 02:58 AM
I already saw your initial post in this thread so I decided that there was no reason to do so myself.

On another note, how did you manage to interpret what Kulin said as a "statement" against your post? What reason would a moderator of all people have to do this?

It's cool lol. No offence taken. I can see how my statement could seem misleading.

Coldmountains
05-24-2020, 07:50 AM
I just looked at the MyHeritage files of two different people that are positive for R1b subclades and they both show derived for Z2125 and for SRY10831.2/Page65/PF6234/SRY1532. So those are false positives for most people tested by MyHeritage.

You are definitely positive for M417 and Z651/F3044/V4100 so it is just Z2125 that is questionable for you. You should get the R1a Superclade Panel at https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=56701 to find your subclade.

Thanks for the info. I already wondered why ever Asian R1a result of Afghans and Iranians i have seem was Z2125+ when the myheritage file was used.

alejandromb92
05-24-2020, 08:37 AM
The odds are that you are positive for a subclade of Z93. Do a search of ESP at https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z93/ to see the samples with a direct paternal ancestor from Spain.

FTDNA has a few more Z93 samples with ancestry from Spain at https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/R;name=R-Z93 but to find the country report for each subclade you have to keep clicking on subclades, which is a pain in the ass, or left click on the three dot menu button on the right and select country report for a country total for all subclades downstream from that point.

There is no way for me to make a logical guess as to which subclade of Z93 you belong to.

There is a decent bunch of R1a-Z93 in Latin America, so it would not be strange that haplogroup and clade. Yseq prediction tells him that the next prediction would be R-Z93, so for sure he is positive for the SNP of that respective clade.

Best regards, Armando.

alejandromb92
05-24-2020, 08:39 AM
Thanks for the info. I already wondered why ever Asian R1a result of Afghans and Iranians i have seem was Z2125+ when the myheritage file was used.

What i would like to know is if every L21 in MyHeritage, is also positive for PF6093, that would be great, because is my case.

L21 > DF13 > DF41 > PF6093

Ibericus
05-24-2020, 09:52 AM
Did you check FTDNA projects? If you find someone with your clade and surname you can just order a test for that particular SNP from Yseq for 18EUR.

Check Iberia and Spain projects. This is Iberia:
37695
37696

JJJ
05-24-2020, 10:28 AM
Did you check FTDNA projects? If you find someone with your clade and surname you can just order a test for that particular SNP from Yseq for 18EUR.

Check Iberia and Spain projects. This is Iberia:
37695
37696

Link?

Ibericus
05-24-2020, 11:30 AM
Link?

Just google FTDNA Spain project and FTDNA Iberia project. For the Spanish project you have to register and join to see the results, but you don't have to order any test to register.

JJJ
05-24-2020, 12:20 PM
Just google FTDNA Spain project and FTDNA Iberia project. For the Spanish project you have to register and join to see the results, but you don't have to order any test to register.

I wish I could join that project but I cannot upload my data from another company (I did it but only autosomal is possible), this is the bad thing about having several companies and not being centralized the results.

Ibericus
05-24-2020, 12:36 PM
I wish I could join that project but I cannot upload my data from another company (I did it but only autosomal is possible), this is the bad thing about having several companies and not being centralized the results.

I uploaded only my autosomal data from Myheritage and I was able to join the project.

alejandromb92
05-24-2020, 01:12 PM
I wish I could join that project but I cannot upload my data from another company (I did it but only autosomal is possible), this is the bad thing about having several companies and not being centralized the results.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/IberianDNA/default.aspx?section=yresults

Es esa. El asunto esta que mi apellido no esta, mi apellido es poco comun la verdad... Solo en cuentra en el oriente de Galicia, que es donde se origino, y un cluster en Asturias donde viene el mio. Revise los del pueblo de donde vienen mi apellido, y resulta que el unico que esta ahi es R1b-U152, entonces no tengo la chance de ese descuentazo por Yseq. Intentalo a ver.

mokordo
05-24-2020, 01:48 PM
The odds are that you are positive for a subclade of Z93. Do a search of ESP at https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z93/ to see the samples with a direct paternal ancestor from Spain.

FTDNA has a few more Z93 samples with ancestry from Spain at https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/R;name=R-Z93 but to find the country report for each subclade you have to keep clicking on subclades, which is a pain in the ass, or left click on the three dot menu button on the right and select country report for a country total for all subclades downstream from that point.

There is no way for me to make a logical guess as to which subclade of Z93 you belong to.

Aunque no me hayas aclarado nada, prefiero tú respuesta a quienes se creen obligados a dar siempre una respuesta, incluso siendo poco segura. con tal de no quedar como alguien que no sabe mucho del tema. Se puede confiar más en lo que tú me dices que en esos que jamás dudan de sus respuestas.

Da gusto encontrar gente así de vez en cuando.

Se aprende mucho más con lo que me has dicho tú que con otro que hubiera dicho "eres eso o lo otro".

Gracias.

ArmandoR1b
05-24-2020, 02:00 PM
There is a decent bunch of R1a-Z93 in Latin America, so it would not be strange that haplogroup and clade.

As I stated "The odds are that you are positive for a subclade of Z93". So nothing new there.


Yseq prediction tells him that the next prediction would be R-Z93, so for sure he is positive for the SNP of that respective clade.

Best regards, Armando.

You are incorrect Alejandro. I'll explain more fully. The Yseq tool tells him that the next prediction would be R-Z645. The Yseq tool does not show him positive for Z93 or Z645. It does not have Z93 or Z645 in green which is needed for him to be considered positive for Z93 or Z645. MyHeritage does not test for Z93 position 7552356 so the Yseq tool can't show a result for that specific SNP. Presumed positive would be a different story but I'll explain why that is not necessarily the case. The Yseq tool shows that MyHeritage has a positive result for R-Z2125 which is downstream from Z93 but everyone with the same newer MyHeritage test has R-Z2125 as a positive result. Therefore R-Z2125 is false positive for most people. Therefore R-Z2125 can't be reliably used to determine what his subclade really is.

The next prediction of R-Z645 is based on the positive result of Z651/F3044/V4100 which is in green. Z93 is downstream from Z651/F3044/V4100 which is why it is in the screenshot but again Z93 is not in green and it is not in the MyHeritage raw data. The Yseq tool shows possible downstream subclades even when a person has not been tested for them which confuses novices.

I hope that helps you understand the situation better and why you misinterpret the results from Yseq.

ArmandoR1b
05-24-2020, 02:00 PM
What i would like to know is if every L21 in MyHeritage, is also positive for PF6093, that would be great, because is my case.

L21 > DF13 > DF41 > PF6093

They are not.

ArmandoR1b
05-24-2020, 02:04 PM
Did you check FTDNA projects? If you find someone with your clade and surname you can just order a test for that particular SNP from Yseq for 18EUR.

Check Iberia and Spain projects. This is Iberia:
37695
37696

You have to have an STR test to show up in the project even if you are a member. The participants with a red haplogroup have not had any SNP testing and therefore they do not know their subclade. All of those samples in green are also at https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree because it displays samples with just individual SNP tests, samples with SNP pack testing, and samples with Big Y testing.

ArmandoR1b
05-24-2020, 02:07 PM
I uploaded only my autosomal data from Myheritage and I was able to join the project.

He would need to purchase a Y37, Y67, Y111 or Big Y test for your information to show up in that list.

alejandromb92
05-24-2020, 02:58 PM
As I stated "The odds are that you are positive for a subclade of Z93". So nothing new there.



You are incorrect Alejandro. I'll explain more fully. The Yseq tool tells him that the next prediction would be R-Z645. The Yseq tool does not show him positive for Z93 or Z645. It does not have Z93 or Z645 in green which is needed for him to be considered positive for Z93 or Z645. MyHeritage does not test for Z93 position 7552356 so the Yseq tool can't show a result for that specific SNP. Presumed positive would be a different story but I'll explain why that is not necessarily the case. The Yseq tool shows that MyHeritage has a positive result for R-Z2125 which is downstream from Z93 but everyone with the same newer MyHeritage test has R-Z2125 as a positive result. Therefore R-Z2125 is false positive for most people. Therefore R-Z2125 can't be reliably used to determine what his subclade really is.

The next prediction of R-Z645 is based on the positive result of Z651/F3044/V4100 which is in green. Z93 is downstream from Z651/F3044/V4100 which is why it is in the screenshot but again Z93 is not in green and it is not in the MyHeritage raw data. The Yseq tool shows possible downstream subclades even when a person has not been tested for them which confuses novices.

I hope that helps you understand the situation better and why you misinterpret the results from Yseq.

Oh, okay okay Armando. Understood now. What is the most common R1a clade in Iberia? Is it Z93?

Ibericus
05-24-2020, 04:58 PM
He would need to purchase a Y37, Y67, Y111 or Big Y test for your information to show up in that list.

Yes, what I meant is that it's possible to join and browse the group without ordering a test. But you are right, your results don't show up.

Artmar
05-26-2020, 10:01 PM
I agree that we shall take this Z2125 result with a bit of skepticism. It's not the first case I have seen and it turned up in people that later tested totally different at FTDNA (well, they tested R1a as well but not for Z93 and they were Polish). If you are Spanish there is a good chance that you are Z93 but I also know that other clades be present like Z280*, YP237, L1280 etc.

mokordo
07-27-2020, 09:58 PM
I got my 23andMe and i already know what is more exactly my R1a:

https://i.imgur.com/tVftIxE.png

mokordo
07-27-2020, 10:01 PM
I agree that we shall take this Z2125 result with a bit of skepticism. It's not the first case I have seen and it turned up in people that later tested totally different at FTDNA (well, they tested R1a as well but not for Z93 and they were Polish). If you are Spanish there is a good chance that you are Z93 but I also know that other clades be present like Z280*, YP237, L1280 etc.

It seems that I am finally R-Z282, according yo 23andMe, and 23andme raw data used in Morley´s predictor and in cladefinder.

https://i.imgur.com/T6APoHy.png

https://i.imgur.com/IkM8LEy.png

Artmar
07-29-2020, 04:27 PM
I wonder what the subclade may be. I think it may be Z280 judging by the Spaniard results that are not Z93 (but that's just a speculation).