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Paul333
06-02-2020, 07:32 PM
Two Neolithic Y H2a Haplogroups have been confirmed in the 'Linkardstown', early cist burials in Ireland. 1.A burial dated to 3632-3384 BC, at Baunogenadsraid, Co Carlow. 2. A burial dated to 2849-2628 BC, at Jerpoint West,Co Kilkenny.

There is a link on post #198, to a Thesis,by Lara M Cassidy, Documenting Continuity and Change across Irish Human Prehistory.

There is other sets of recent papers referencing and confirming a Number of separate Y H2a1, findings both in France and Germany. A significant cluster of Y H2 being found to the East of the Rhine river around Muhlhausen, Stuttgart.

This seems to be a different Y H2 people, from the French ones as I read into what they say that the Rhine river was an East -West seperating barrier in the Stuttgart regions, indicating that there may of been two different Neolithic routes, taken by Y H2 carriers, into Central and North Western Europe. One people possibly including seafaring, from the coasts of Iberia, Normandy etc and reaching the British Isle etc, and another travelling overland through the Balkans, from Anatolia and the Blacksea region.

There are four 'Y H2 P96' references from Calvados Region of France, referenced on a post by artemv #2 ' Ancient Genome-Wide DNA from France' ,all are stated as pre-SNP Y19962.

The dating for these four are FLR001 is given a date between 4045-4275 BCE. FLR002 is 4045-3965 BCE, FLR004 is given age of 4675-4490 BCE, and FLR01 4540-4405 BCE.

I think these are all stated as Neolithic, but they now indicate a confirmed presence of Y H2 Haplogroups in early Europe. Hopefully there will be more coming

Check the discussion boards on the Ancient DNA for more information about these.

thejkhan
06-02-2020, 11:07 PM
The oldest H2 found in Europe so far is the Brillenhohle sample from southern Germany, dated 14780 ybp.

Paul333
06-03-2020, 12:28 AM
The oldest H2 found in Europe so far is the Brillenhohle sample from southern Germany, dated 14780 ybp.

Thanks, thejkhan,
I will look for it, 'Brillenhohle' is also not too far from Mulhlhausen, so they may of been around a while.

14,780 YBP,would be a game changer, it would confirm Y H2 as one of the oldest European Haplogroups.

I used to transport goods across Europe by HGV etc, a few years ago, and I know the Stuttgart area, and I often would overnight at a truck stop at nearby Gersthofen, Ausburg.

Its trying to find a connection with one group of early Y H2, and give me an excuse to visit a site, hopefully things are beginning to move regarding the presence of Y H2.

thejkhan
06-03-2020, 02:06 AM
Thanks, thejkhan,
I will look for it, 'Brillenhohle' is also not too far from Mulhlhausen, so they may of been around a while.

14,780 YBP,would be a game changer, it would confirm Y H2 as one of the oldest European Haplogroups.

I used to transport goods across Europe by HGV etc, a few years ago, and I know the Stuttgart area, and I often would overnight at a truck stop at nearby Gersthofen, Ausburg.

Its trying to find a connection with one group of early Y H2, and give me an excuse to visit a site, hopefully things are beginning to move regarding the presence of Y H2.

It's possible the H2 from Brillenhöhle is a dead end lineage. However it proves H2 was once widespread as hunter-gatherers before the Neolithic. The majority of modern European H2 probably comes from a few Neolithic lineages.

Paul333
06-03-2020, 12:01 PM
I agree, but it is a strange co-incidence that Y H2 has been found in the same area, many thousands of years apart.
A recent opinion suggests at least two separate groups of Y H2 existed in Europe during the Neolithic, one of which is from that Locality, and if Brillenhohle is unrelated, then there would be three confirmed movements of Y H2 into and throughout Europe.

Farroukh
06-06-2020, 03:48 PM
Dear Paul333, H-section of this forum is not so diverse, therefore do not clone threads,please.
Same subject is in H-L901 in Ancient Europe (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?20449-H-L901-in-Ancient-Europe) and is active.

Farroukh
06-06-2020, 03:54 PM
I agree, but it is a strange co-incidence that Y H2 has been found in the same area, many thousands of years apart.

Did you pass BigY700? M9313 is one of unstable SNPs.

Paul333
06-06-2020, 07:06 PM
Dear Paul333, H-section of this forum is not so diverse, therefore do not clone threads,please.
Same subject is in H-L901 in Ancient Europe (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?20449-H-L901-in-Ancient-Europe) and is active.

I beg to differ.

Y H2 P96, is not the same at all. It is completely separated from Y H L901,
There are three separate main Y H Haplogroups as I understand, Y H1, Y H2, and Y H3, and therefore each Haplogroup should be treated as they are, much in the same way as others for instance R1b and R1a, which represent very different journeys, much in the same way here.

There is still an uncertainty about Y H2, P96, and even opinions exist that it may be changed again and therefore its possible its Identity could even be moved again,and possibly even from the Y H tree.

Recent information is making the possibility of Ancient Y H2, being very diveresd from, Y H1 and Y H3. Y H2 is confirmed in Paleolithic Europe, no sign of Y H1, and Y H3, its association clearly identifies a very old split, and separation from the other Y H haplogroups.

Paul333
06-06-2020, 07:12 PM
Deleted

Paul333
06-06-2020, 07:26 PM
Did you pass BigY700? M9313 is one of unstable SNPs.

Not sure what you mean by your post, about Big Y700, but if you read my earlier posts about Y H2 and the SNP M9313, you will see Ive already queried the uncertainty about this, and tried to have this disscussed without success.

I received a positive result for M9313 from Living DNA, It is I know representing more than one Haplogroup. It was looked into by another poster and he informed me it was representing Y H2a1. It is on ISOGG 2019/20, and the SNP Index, although its actual position on the YH2 tree is uncertain, as I understand. M9313 also represents Y-I S8522 in Europe, via SNP L801,etc, and is also stated as confirmed for Haplogroup Y-D1a2a.

Megalophias
06-06-2020, 08:55 PM
Does anyone know the details about the Brillenhohle Y hg H2 call? I checked the SNP file kindly provided by Kolgeh, and it is a very low coverage sample. He is positive for L284, which is at the H2 level. But that is a C > T mutation, and the DNA was not treated with UDG, so I guess there's a high chance it's ancient DNA damage. There are no other calls at that level or upstream to support it, and no negative calls for the usual suspects I or C - only one negative SNP for R.

So has anyone looked at it more carefully and concluded it really is (or isn't) H2?

ArmandoR1b
06-06-2020, 09:37 PM
The oldest H2 found in Europe so far is the Brillenhohle sample from southern Germany, dated 14780 ybp.


It's possible the H2 from Brillenhöhle is a dead end lineage. However it proves H2 was once widespread as hunter-gatherers before the Neolithic. The majority of modern European H2 probably comes from a few Neolithic lineages.


Does anyone know the details about the Brillenhohle Y hg H2 call? I checked the SNP file kindly provided by Kolgeh, and it is a very low coverage sample. He is positive for L284, which is at the H2 level. But that is a C > T mutation, and the DNA was not treated with UDG, so I guess there's a high chance it's ancient DNA damage. There are no other calls at that level or upstream to support it, and no negative calls for the usual suspects I or C - only one negative SNP for R.

So has anyone looked at it more carefully and concluded it really is (or isn't) H2?

I had also looked at th BAM file back in December and I had come to the same conclusion. The coverage is excessively low and the only derived SNP that isn't possibly from deamination is L1090 for haplogroup A0-T. The total derived SNPs including those possibly from deamination is 4. Personally I would not consider the derived call for L284 to be reliable and therefore I would not consider Brillenhöhle to be positive for H2.



pos
marker_name
haplogroup
mutation
anc
der
reads
called_perc
called_base
state


3544962
L1090
A0-T
G->C
G
C
1
100
C
D


24453327
Y16731
E1b1b1a1b1a14~
G->A
G
A
1
100
A
D


15604862
L284
H2
C->T
C
T
1
100
T
D


14488543
YP1241
Q2a1a2a1a1
G->A
G
A
1
100
A
D

Farroukh
06-07-2020, 09:01 AM
I received a positive result for M9313 from Living DNA, It is I know representing more than one Haplogroup.
Dou you have only M9313+ as the final result? Did LivingDNA provide you complete line of your positive SNPs?

Your case is nontrivial and very interesting. BigY700 is most informative Y-DNA test among FTDNA products. IMHO, it will be better for you to test agan at FTDNA

Paul333
06-07-2020, 04:01 PM
Dou you have only M9313+ as the final result? Did LivingDNA provide you complete line of your positive SNPs?

Your case is nontrivial and very interesting. BigY700 is most informative Y-DNA test among FTDNA products. IMHO, it will be better for you to test agan at FTDNA


My terminal Snp and Haplogroup was first made by Living DNA in 2017 as Y H2 'P 96'. I also retested with 23&Me which confirmed Y H2 P96 as my Haplogroup Marker.

Living DNA gave me a list of my positive markers about 99 SNPs, including P 96 and M9313. They also gave me seven Mtdna Snps, for Mtdna H1c3.

23 & Me gave me a load of raw data, but its hard for me to understand most of it.

I then was informed that being positive for the SNP M9313, is indicating I am possibly Y H2a1, and this seems to be indicated by a number of references to a lower subclade than Y H2 P96, of Y H2a1,but its position on some is indicating not yet confirmed, and it represents other Haplogroups as well, so Ill have to wait untill this is sorted as this could possibly be my terminal SNP, as its further down from P 96.

I have not tested with FTDNA, but did have a test of 17 positive str markers done by the University of Leicester, under Turi King and Mark A Jobling, in their project, "Seeking Viking descendants in the North of England" I think it was around 2009 or 2011. My results were so rare,they could not identify my Haplogroup, only on these results, and this is why I then tested with the other two companies.

They also only tested the Y, DNA at the time, as I have a Viking derived surname, a modern version stemming and basically ,identical to a naming class, of one shown on the bottom of page 88 regarding a Danish settler name, in their book, The Viking achievement by Peter foot, and DM Wilsen, 1979, ( possibly this is the reason many Vikings began settling elsewhere or finding new better homes and land, and could be the reason I have it, there are alot of these similar names in the Northern Isle's of Orkney and Shetland up to the 1600s ). The project asked that all my Grandparents were born in the same area of Northern England, as indeed were all my 8 Great Grandparents,all being born in the then County of Durham, England, between 1874,and 1888, which was a criteria.

I think it was only in late 2017 when Y H2 was listed on this site in UK. There was only a single lad on Anthrogenica in the UK, from Scotland, first posted on 11th Sept 2017, and then myself a single entry for Northern England first posted on 23 Oct 2017. There is a couple more since, but it is still sparse, it was even believed at one time to be extinct.

I never heard anything or received any further information about the project after I got my results. I tried to find out, and contacted Turi King herself, but at that time she informed me it still has not been published, so I still have no idea about its findings. If anybody knows anything about that project results etc, please let me know.

Having already got 17str results, and now both of my Y & MT Haplogroups, its not going to be worth my paying for anymore STRs by using FTDNA, at this time, as there's so few Y H2 P96 about.

parasar
06-07-2020, 05:15 PM
Per Genetiker:
"Those three samples have too little data for their Y haplogroups to be determined."
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2016/05/05/phenotype-snps-from-ice-age-europe/

Farroukh
06-08-2020, 03:59 AM
Paul333, I strongly recommend you toorder Y-DNA test at FTDNA. You can start with 12 markers only and then upgrade them step by step up to BigY700.

Your current results (Living DNA, 23&Me and so on) did they best and cannot be more informative.

FTDNA will give you your terminal SNP and list of your matches (male line).

Paul333
06-08-2020, 12:10 PM
Paul333, I strongly recommend you toorder Y-DNA test at FTDNA. You can start with 12 markers only and then upgrade them step by step up to BigY700.

Your current results (Living DNA, 23&Me and so on) did they best and cannot be more informative.

FTDNA will give you your terminal SNP and list of your matches (male line).

Thanks Farroukh,
I might consider doing this at some time,in the near future. Ive just checked on the Ftdna site and out of my 17str markers my closest match's are 260333, with 14,out of 17strs, and then 265383 with a match of 14, out of 16 strs.

On Ftdna 265383 is just given 'P96', and 260333 is given 'Y21616', not sure if these are relevant to my P96 though.

Farroukh
06-09-2020, 03:52 AM
265383 seems to be tested only for backbone test only, therefore he ended up just at H2-P96 level.

260333 belongs to H-Y19962 branch.

Paul, try it with FTDNA. It is a good quest. :)

Paul333
07-29-2020, 03:50 PM
265383 seems to be tested only for backbone test only, therefore he ended up just at H2-P96 level.

260333 belongs to H-Y19962 branch.

Paul, try it with FTDNA. It is a good quest. :)

On the FTDNA Y H tree, 260333, has now been placed in the Y H2a1a subclade group, with SNP Z19049. This is also confirmed on the ISOGG Y DNA H haplogroup Tree 11th July 2020. SNP tracker has this to SNP SK1180. dated to 31,000-29,000 BCE

Paul333
10-13-2020, 10:59 PM
Today found a new subclade of FT18685, that indicates on the SNP Tracker tool, that Y H2,was present, or arrived into England around 2300BC, This period is also the age the 'Beaker People' first arrived into England.

Two people have this subclade on the FTDNA Y H project tree, representing Y-H2a1a, One is on this forum.

The two entries on the project match each other using the same 17strs I have, with 15 matches each, and two none ,match's, using the same 17 Str markers. Their two none match's each are one step away also, from each other and myself.

This is great news, as Ive been hanging around with YH2 P96, in the paleolithic middle east for years. It now looks as though its arrived and is given a date in the same period as Beaker People arrived, who replaced the local population by up to 90%.
Im not sure if my own Y H2 is connected but these have the closest match yet to myself.

I now need to find out if my Y H2 was local, or came with these to England.

Paul333
10-13-2020, 11:11 PM
265383 seems to be tested only for backbone test only, therefore he ended up just at H2-P96 level.

260333 belongs to H-Y19962 branch.

Paul, try it with FTDNA. It is a good quest. :)

They have been both moved to the Y H2a1a subclade, with a further SNP FT18685, which is downsteam from an earlier subclade of BY84221.

I think 265383 must of tested further as he has been entered as Y H2a1a now, along with 260333.

Y Z19049 is representing a similar but different subclade of Y H2a1a, belonging to FTDNA entry '239312'.

Paul333
02-17-2021, 06:51 PM
Put my 17 STR results into Whit Athey Predictor today.

For North West Europe, it resulted in my highest Fitness at 42 and probability 38.6% as Y Haplogroup O3 ???.

In equal priors my Probability increased with O3 to 76.3%.

Trying Eastern Europe it had fitness same at 42 for O3, but probability Haplogroup N. 70% .

Mediterranian it had fitness 42 for O3, but highest probability Haplogroup Q at 30%,

Southasia fitness same for 03 at 42, but probability 83% for O3.

Whats all that about 03. Why am I getting these ? Highest fitness is for all at 42 for O3. Y O3 is I found an old Far Eastern Haplogroup.

Same 17 strs put to the the Neven predictor today 98.7% unsupported but highest probability H P96 1.29%. with fitness score 24.5, next probability N1a1, only 0.01%, with 20.01, fitness score.

Ive recently sent a FTDNA test in for there Y 111, and MTDNA, and hopefully this will help sort my Y DNA haplogroup a bit further.

parasar
02-17-2021, 06:56 PM
Put my 17 STR results into Whit Athey Predictor today. For Northern European, it resulted in my highest Fitness at 42 and probability 38.6% as Y Haplogroup O3 ???. In equal priors my Probability increased with O3 to 76.3%. Trying Eastern Europe it had fitness same at 42 for O3, but probability Haplogroup N. 70% For Mediterranian it had fitness for O3, but highest probability Haplogroup Q at 30%, Southasia fitness same for 03 at 42, but 83% for O3, whats all that about. Why am I getting these ? Highest fitness is for all at 42 for O3. Y O3 is an old Far Eastern Haplogroup.

Ive now recently sent a FTDNA Y 111 & Mtdna test, so hopefully this might help solve it.

They don't have H2 samples to predict correctly I suppose.

Paul333
02-17-2021, 07:11 PM
They don't have H2 samples to predict correctly I suppose.

Thanks parasar, Ive just added a bit more. There is a few P 96s on big Y now, but Ive never encountered Y O3 before.

Paul333
02-20-2021, 01:53 PM
There's a new paper added by 'pmokeefe' post #3109, Yesterday, on the Genetic Genealogy & Ancient DNA in the news thread, regarding the spread of Y H2, and 'two' paths to early Western Europe.

kimriddlebarger
07-19-2021, 01:02 AM
Paul:

Just signed up and saw your post from several months ago.

I be `239312.' I took the Big-Y 500. My male line arrived in Philadelphia in 1733 from Rotterdam. I did find a living y-DNA cousin in Switzerland, with a well-documented presence there from the early 1500s. I was recently reclassified by FTDNA as H-FTA2663 (H2a1a)

Paul333
07-19-2021, 12:18 PM
Paul:

Just signed up and saw your post from several months ago.

I be `239312.' I took the Big-Y 500. My male line arrived in Philadelphia in 1733 from Rotterdam. I did find a living y-DNA cousin in Switzerland, with a well-documented presence there from the early 1500s. I was recently reclassified by FTDNA as H-FTA2663 (H2a1a)

Hello Kimriddlebarger,
Welcome, Im still waiting for my results from Big-Y 700, then hopefully it will give me and us a bit more information about our origins, but at the moment there's not a lot of Y H2 about, and it seems to be a long waiting game for further information, although slow, it is progressing.

Hopefully my Y SNP position will be confirmed in the next few weeks.

regards Paul.

Farroukh
07-24-2021, 01:20 PM
Using Y-chromosome capture enrichment to resolve haplogroup H2 shows new evidence for a two-path Neolithic expansion to Western Europe (2021)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-94491-z

95 aDNA samples of H2 S1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-94491-z#Sec13

Paul333
07-29-2021, 03:43 PM
Finally received my Terminal SNP from FTDNA Big Y-700 today, and it confirms as 'FT18685'. Looks like my 'Y' Ancestor was Iron Age, 200BC somewhere in England.

kimriddlebarger
07-29-2021, 04:12 PM
Paul:

Looks like you are one step upstream from me. There are two other FT18685s.

Paul333
07-29-2021, 04:19 PM
Paul:

Looks like you are one step upstream from me. There are two other FT18685s.

Hi Kimriddlebarger,
Yes under the BY84221 Branch, one in England and another in America, Im pleased it finally confirms my Ancestor was in Iron Age England around 200 BC.

picto22
07-31-2021, 03:21 PM
Thanks... not alot of H2a in that list... why are they not studying it as much, due to lack of samples?... i thought the rare would be more interesting to them. Suppose you have to take into account the majority and give them the information...

Paul333
08-01-2021, 01:40 AM
Thanks... not alot of H2a in that list... why are they not studying it as much, due to lack of samples?... i thought the rare would be more interesting to them. Suppose you have to take into account the majority and give them the information...


Hi Picto22.
I dont think they know a lot about it.

In my opinion its seems Y H2 has been around in Europe for a very long time, and because of its earlier presence in Europe is now seemingly threatening the neolithic farmer theory arrival, people are being a bit more carefull.

The 'H' Y Haplogroup has mainly been associated with the 'Indian' area,as an origin, and this seems to be at odds with the Y 'H2' subclade, but because its descended from Y H-L901, its a problem, and seems to contradict this traditional line of thought.

Its a confusing issue, but what is becoming clear is that there is certainly early 'H' ,European branches that have evolved, stemming at least, from before the SNPs 'Y21612', to Y21654, branches.

Farroukh
08-01-2021, 04:49 AM
My every day mantra for such cases is "BigY and Yfull". And yeah why don't you guys upload your VCF files to Yfull?
It will uncover your early path and another brick in the wall of H2 history in Europe.

Paul333
08-01-2021, 02:22 PM
My every day mantra for such cases is "BigY and Yfull". And yeah why don't you guys upload your VCF files to Yfull?
It will uncover your early path and another brick in the wall of H2 history in Europe.

Thanks Farroukh,
Only had my results a few days so just trying to understand it all for now. I will decide to put it on Y Full when I understand a bit more.

Paul

Farroukh
08-02-2021, 10:58 AM
Advantages of Yfull:
- no fantom SNPs with false kinship
- exact TMRCA period of terminal Y-SNP
- comparison with scientific samples

Paul333
08-03-2021, 06:15 PM
Hi Kimriddlebarger,
Yes under the BY84221 Branch, one in England and another in America, Im pleased it finally confirms my Ancestor was in Iron Age England around 200 BC.

( correction )
The two I match with FT18685, under BY84221, are both Americans, with a reported ancestral origin from England.

Paul333
08-09-2021, 06:36 PM
Visited the Y H Tree today, and on the public Y Haplo tree, Ive been moved to a different branch for FT18685. Im now on Y H2c1a1a1a, where'as before I was on Y H2a1a. The other two FT18685 remain on YH2a1a, so not sure what is happening and what the differences are that make this separation and change, but it will certainly affect my YH2 journey. I now will have to waite to try to find out why the difference.

Paul333
08-10-2021, 12:48 PM
Visited the Y H Tree today, and on the public Y Haplo tree, Ive been moved to a different branch for FT18685. Im now on Y H2c1a1a1a, where'as before I was on Y H2a1a. The other two FT18685 remain on YH2a1a, so not sure what is happening and what the differences are that make this separation and change, but it will certainly affect my YH2 journey. I now will have to waite to try to find out why the difference.

Just checked the Y H2 Haplo tree, and all Y H2 SNPs FT18685, are now grouped together.

Paul333
08-11-2021, 12:58 AM
Just checked the Y H2 Haplo tree, and all Y H2 SNPs FT18685, are now grouped together.

Just checked today and another change my terminal SNP is now Y H2 FT389203. Cannot find any information about this, anybody know its age or TMRCA.

Farroukh
08-11-2021, 12:22 PM
Paul, upload your vcf-file to Yfull. You will get the real nodes and ages.
It is more useful than "big experts with big mouths"

Paul333
08-11-2021, 12:36 PM
Paul, upload your vcf-file to Yfull. You will get the real nodes and ages.
It is more useful than "big experts with big mouths"

Thanks Farroukh,
Im thinking about it but not sure how to do it. Im having problems getting project inf of Ftdna with my PC so once this is sorted I most likely will.

Paul.

Farroukh
08-11-2021, 08:39 PM
Im thinking about it but not sure how to do it.
1) Log into your account at FTDNA.com > Results&Tools > BigY > Results > Download VCF
2) Yfull.com>Order now>Fill the form and attach the VCF-file.

Paul333
08-12-2021, 09:25 PM
1) Log into your account at FTDNA.com > Results&Tools > BigY > Results > Download VCF
2) Yfull.com>Order now>Fill the form and attach the VCF-file.

I tried to do it but not sure if it will work, not sure about user name or wether it will upload as I never attached a file, will have to wait and see.

Not sure what I did but I got an e-mail with instructions asking for $100. Think Ive spent enough I cant even see my FTDNA projects properly yet.

When I clicked the link they sent informing it should look like this all I got was error messages, so something is not right.


Think I will wait a bit longer to see what its about.

Paul.

JMcB
08-12-2021, 11:42 PM
I tried to do it but not sure if it will work, not sure about user name or wether it will upload as I never attached a file, will have to wait and see.

Not sure what I did but I got an e-mail with instructions asking for $100. Think Ive spent enough I cant even see my FTDNA projects properly yet.

When I clicked the link they sent informing it should look like this all I got was error messages, so something is not right.


Think I will wait a bit longer to see what its about.

Paul.


It sounds like you tried to get the wrong (Bam) file. Which Family Tree charges $100 for.

You need to ask for the VCF file which is free.

Farroukh
08-14-2021, 06:04 PM
I tried to do it but not sure if it will work, not sure about user name or wether it will upload as I never attached a file, will have to wait and see.

Not sure what I did but I got an e-mail with instructions asking for $100.
Paul, VCF-file is free of charge. See the attached pics:

https://a.radikal.ru/a37/2108/e3/850b8ab7d56b.jpg (https://radikal.ru)

https://b.radikal.ru/b23/2108/90/d5615025e7d3.jpg (https://radikal.ru)

https://c.radikal.ru/c23/2108/a7/87c1368749b0.jpg (https://radikal.ru)

Paul333
08-15-2021, 02:52 PM
Paul, VCF-file is free of charge. See the attached pics:

https://a.radikal.ru/a37/2108/e3/850b8ab7d56b.jpg (https://radikal.ru)
.
https://b.radikal.ru/b23/2108/90/d5615025e7d3.jpg (https://radikal.ru)

https://c.radikal.ru/c23/2108/a7/87c1368749b0.jpg (https://radikal.ru)

Thank you, Farrouck,
Think Ill sit on it a while, have some gremlins in my PC, regarding viewing my FTDNA project data, I, can only access my project using Incognito window, and even that was only on the advice of FTDNA, who are trying to help. so Ill sort that out first.

regards Paul.

regads Paul

Paul333
08-20-2021, 02:16 PM
Thank you, Farrouck,
Think Ill sit on it a while, have some gremlins in my PC, regarding viewing my FTDNA project data, I, can only access my project using Incognito window, and even that was only on the advice of FTDNA, who are trying to help. so Ill sort that out first.

regards Paul.

regads Paul

Hello Farrouck,
I tried to upload VCF following your instructions above, seems to of worked, now just waiting to see what happens..
Thanks

Paul


'Just received confirmation my VCF analysis has been successfully completed. ( has shown my ID and a Branch snp at this point ) To unlock you results ( parly determined snps and strs ) you will need to pay for the service. For full results you will need to upload the .Bam file without paying the fee. Thanks.

then it offers payment instructions etc.

What is this about ??' do they need more or has it all been uploaded, do I need to pay.

any advice

Thanks Paul.

JMcB
08-20-2021, 03:18 PM
Hello Farrouck,
I tried to upload VCF following your instructions above, seems to of worked, now just waiting to see what happens..
Thanks

Paul


'Just received confirmation my VCF analysis has been successfully completed. ( has shown my ID and a Branch snp at this point ) To unlock you results ( parly determined snps and strs ) you will need to pay for the service. For full results you will need to upload the .Bam file without paying the fee. Thanks.

then it offers payment instructions etc.

What is this about ??' do they need more or has it all been uploaded, do I need to pay.

any advice

Thanks Paul.


It sounds like your upload has worked and they’ve done their analysis. So you need to pay them their $49 fee to unlock your account. Once you do that you’ll be able to sign on and see your results. You should also already be on their tree. Ignore the part about the Bam file, that just means if you ever decide to upload that, they’ll do the Bam file analysis for free.

Paul333
08-20-2021, 04:27 PM
It sounds like your upload has worked and they’ve done their analysis. So you need to pay them their $49 fee to unlock your account. Once you do that you’ll be able to sign on and see your results. You should also already be on their tree. Ignore the part about the Bam file, that just means if you ever decide to upload that, they’ll do the Bam file analysis for free.

Ive got an account and I can get on the tree, they have me at a SNP Y21654 that I am not positive for, and the VCF was supposedly free. Ill sort this payment out, and see what happens then.

Thanks

Just paid and received receipt, so up and running.

Paul333
08-26-2021, 03:05 PM
Ive got an account and I can get on the tree, they have me at a SNP Y21654 that I am not positive for, and the VCF was supposedly free. Ill sort this payment out, and see what happens then.

Thanks

Just paid and received receipt, so up and running.

Looking on YFull H tree, 'Live' today I have been placed into a new subclade, Y126851, anyone know the age of this, or its location etc.

Thanks Paul

Paul333
09-08-2021, 09:35 PM
Looking on YFull H tree, 'Live' today I have been placed into a new subclade, Y126851, anyone know the age of this, or its location etc.

Thanks Paul

Looking at my BiG Y-700 Y Haplogroup new result of SNP FT389203, I entered this on the SNP Tracker today, and It is now confirmed in England with a TMRCA of only 81yrs, with a date of 1900 CE.

As I understand it, this would mean it is my Y H2 terminal/final subclade, and would this mean the last mutation to this SNP was sometime between 1900-1940 AD.

My father and my grandfather are both within this period, can it be narrowed even further, or is that as close as it will ever get.

Paul333
09-14-2021, 07:47 PM
Does anyone know the details about the Brillenhohle Y hg H2 call? I checked the SNP file kindly provided by Kolgeh, and it is a very low coverage sample. He is positive for L284, which is at the H2 level. But that is a C > T mutation, and the DNA was not treated with UDG, so I guess there's a high chance it's ancient DNA damage. There are no other calls at that level or upstream to support it, and no negative calls for the usual suspects I or C - only one negative SNP for R.

So has anyone looked at it more carefully and concluded it really is (or isn't) H2?

I also have SNP L284 C>T, in my Y H2 Data not sure what this means. if confirmed this mutation must of occured prior to the Brillenhohle Y H2 find of 14,780 YBP.

Has the Brillenhohle YH2 P96 been accepted and confirmed with this dating, if so it would place YH2 in Europe at least 14,780 YBP. well before the farmers arrived, and no doubt will result in a lot of head scratching.

Paul333
09-16-2021, 10:47 AM
I also have SNP L284 C>T, in my Y H2 Data not sure what this means. if confirmed this mutation must of occured prior to the Brillenhohle Y H2 find of 14,780 YBP.

Has the Brillenhohle YH2 P96 been accepted and confirmed with this dating, if so it would place YH2 in Europe at least 14,780 YBP. well before the farmers arrived, and no doubt will result in a lot of head scratching.

SNP L284 is one of the SNPs associated with both Y H2-Z19008,and Y-19966 given ages of between 22,000-16,336 YBP. It is also shown within Europe during these periods. Therefore YH2 has to of entered Europe before the Farmers, and if so It has to of been associated with the earlier Hunter Gatherers,, its is thousands of years before the arrival of the farming revolution it is strongly identified with.

It also seems to confirm a third, and earlier migration of Y H2 into Europe.

Pribislav
09-16-2021, 01:09 PM
I also have SNP L284 C>T, in my Y H2 Data not sure what this means. if confirmed this mutation must of occured prior to the Brillenhohle Y H2 find of 14,780 YBP.

Has the Brillenhohle YH2 P96 been accepted and confirmed with this dating, if so it would place YH2 in Europe at least 14,780 YBP. well before the farmers arrived, and no doubt will result in a lot of head scratching.

H2 obviously came to Europe with ENF, already proven with dozens of ancient H2 samples dating to the Neolithic and later periods, and complete lack of H2 among European Mesolithic HGs. No one in their right mind would base any kind of theory on excruciatingly low coverage Brillenhohle sample.

Paul333
09-16-2021, 03:29 PM
H2 obviously came to Europe with ENF, already proven with dozens of ancient H2 samples dating to the Neolithic and later periods, and complete lack of H2 among European Mesolithic HGs. No one in their right mind would base any kind of theory on excruciatingly low coverage Brillenhohle sample.

Well there is a few about, and no body in there right mind can either dissprove or dissmiss that theory yet either, there must be a reason that a conclusion was made to identify Brillenhohle as Y H2, with an age of 14,750 YBP.

Its also not just Brillenhohle, that suggests Y H2 was in Europe long before Farmers arrived, check the SNP Histories. Also look at the Mesolithic maps on Eupedia, Y H2 is clearly identified and well marked during the mesolithic periods.

Farroukh
11-02-2021, 04:06 AM
I17310 H2~ H-Y20186/etc*(xZ19117,Z41295,Z44609,Y21623)

Large-Scale Migration into Southern Britain During the Middle to Late Bronze Age

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB47891

Paul333
02-19-2022, 02:15 PM
I17310 H2~ H-Y20186/etc*(xZ19117,Z41295,Z44609,Y21623)

Large-Scale Migration into Southern Britain During the Middle to Late Bronze Age

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB47891

Hello Farroukh,
Sorry for the late reply, and thanks for the information and link above, but I still cannot get access to see the details, is there any reference to Y H2 entering Britain, within PRJEB47891, and is H-Y20186*/etc actually showing a presence in Southern Britain during that period, as I am positive for the SNPs H-Y20186, Z19117,and Y21623.

Thanks Paul.

JMcB
02-19-2022, 03:32 PM
Hello Farroukh,
Sorry for the late reply, and thanks for the information and link above, but I still cannot get access to see the details, is there any reference to Y H2 entering Britain, within PRJEB47891, and is H-Y20186*/etc actually showing a presence in Southern Britain during that period, as I am positive for the SNPs H-Y20186, Z19117,and Y21623.

Thanks Paul.


Hello Paul,

You can find a preview of the paper here:

https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/Patterson_BritainMigration_Nature_MainManuscript_2 021_3.pdf


Edit: There is also a very lengthy thread on the paper with the conversation after it’s release starting here:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?24962-50-replacement-in-GB-Patterson-et-al-in-review&p=812014&viewfull=1#post812014

Paul333
02-19-2022, 06:38 PM
Hello Paul,

You can find a preview of the paper here:

https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/Patterson_BritainMigration_Nature_MainManuscript_2 021_3.pdf


Edit: There is also a very lengthy thread on the paper with the conversation after it’s release starting here:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?24962-50-replacement-in-GB-Patterson-et-al-in-review&p=812014&viewfull=1#post812014

Deleted. wrong ref, looked at I13710, rather than I17310.

Paul333
02-21-2022, 09:04 PM
Deleted. wrong ref, looked at I13710, rather than I17310.

Can anybody locate the details regarding I17310, Y H2, in the reports refered to the above, reference PREJEB4789, I wonder if it is I13710?? which is the closest I can find.
Thanks Paul.

Megalophias
02-21-2022, 11:07 PM
I17310 is not from Britain at all, but from the Czech Republic. He is attributed to the Knovic LBA culture, but is an outlier, all EEF, closest to Globular Amphora. No direct date, 1000-800 BC by context, "deposited in one of several settlement pits identified by R. R. von Weinzierl during sand extraction on September 24 1901". There are Eneolithic burials at the same site. So I guess he could very well be mis-dated.

Megalophias
02-21-2022, 11:14 PM
double post

Paul333
02-21-2022, 11:36 PM
double post

Thank you Megalophias, that is very helpfull.

I was looking for him in Britain only, believing he was found here.

I wonder if or when his ancestors came to Southern Britain. Im not sure of the conection to the paper, but if so, I may be directly related or descended from him, having the same snps may help.

It looks more probable that his branch of early farmers originated from the Danube to the central European area's, rather than the Med/Iberian group. He was found around Bilina not far from the Border with modern Germany.

Its really given me something to look further into, to find a connection with him with Southern Britain, and if the age is correct, or is in fact earlier.