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View Full Version : H-Y25776 in Lebanese and Kalash



thejkhan
06-09-2020, 03:15 AM
YFull added some new HGDP samples to H-Y25776 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/H-Y25776/) - all 3 HGDP samples are Kalash. There's also a Lebanese and a Punjabi sample sharing this clade.

I was wondering whether this clade's presence in Lebanon has something to do with the Mittanis. The same population probably also got something to do with the ethnogenesis of proto-Dards in Northern Pakistan.

Kulin
06-13-2020, 08:28 PM
YFull added some new HGDP samples to H-Y25776 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/H-Y25776/) - all 3 HGDP samples are Kalash. There's also a Lebanese and a Punjabi sample sharing this clade.

I was wondering whether this clade's presence in Lebanon has something to do with the Mittanis. The same population probably also got something to do with the ethnogenesis of proto-Dards in Northern Pakistan.

H-Y25776 looks more like an indigenous subclade of the Northern Indus. It is rather unlikely for the Mitanni Aryans to be carrying it. The person in question likely has ancestry from a Domari (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dom_people) individual.

aaronbee2010
06-13-2020, 09:53 PM
H-Y25776 looks more like an indigenous subclade of the Northern Indus. It is rather unlikely for the Mitanni Aryans to be carrying it. The person in question likely has ancestry from a Domari (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dom_people) individual.

I10409 (Gonur2_BA - InPe - Turkmenistan) from Narasimhan 2019 is dated to 2280-2044 calBCE and comes under H-Z4361 (upstream of H-Y25776, where the Kalash and Lebanese samples come under), so at least small numbers of this subclade would've left South Asia before the departure of the Dom people. Whether Mittani people were responsible for pushing it downwards of Central Asia, I don't know.

thejkhan
06-13-2020, 11:24 PM
H-Y25776 looks more like an indigenous subclade of the Northern Indus. It is rather unlikely for the Mitanni Aryans to be carrying it. The person in question likely has ancestry from a Domari (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dom_people) individual.

Domari carry a very specific recent subclade of H with a TMRCA of around 1400 ybp. It's highly unlikely that Kalash or other Dardic people would assimilate Domari men into their communities. Even the Kohistanis are 50% H1 - that can't be from Domari.

Kulin
06-13-2020, 11:26 PM
Domari carry a very specific recent subclade of H with a TMRCA of around 1400 ybp. It's highly unlikely that Kalash or other Dardic people would assimilate Domari men into their communities. Even the Kohistanis are 50% H1 - that can't be from Domari.

I meant the Lebanese individual. And as per Aaronbee, given that the subclade spread to the BMAC, there's a good degree of it being carried by the mitanni to the Near East.

thejkhan
06-13-2020, 11:36 PM
I meant the Lebanese individual. And as per Aaronbee, given that the subclade spread to the BMAC, there's a good degree of it being carried by the mitanni to the Near East.

Yeah I understood, just saying that the Levantine individual sharing same clade as the Kalash makes it unlikely to be Domari.

tipirneni
06-14-2020, 12:04 AM
The Domari clades are all https://www.yfull.com/tree/H-PH124/

Since they have a distinct zero mutation and most are under that tree. There are a number of Arab & Israeli members of H-SK1225 who are not Romani. If you have a FamilyTreeDNA account you can check it out. There are many Caucasian and Central Asian ones too.

The Romani have separate FTDNA project at
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/romanydna/dna-results

tipirneni
06-14-2020, 12:12 AM
The clade that I am under seem to have a number of Middle East, Israeli, Azeri, Armenian & Iran members who are not null mutation like Gypsy. Since many didn't do the BigY test we don't know the ultimate branch but looking at number of mutations seem to suggest they all fall within the Z5890 branch. It is also widely spread in India, Bangladesh & Sri Lanka.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/H-Z5890/

There is a chance that these people were part of Chalcolithic culture near Susa which is mentioned in many publications

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13621-shushan