StrandsofHistory
06-10-2020, 12:40 AM
As per family history, I am fully Ashkenazi Jewish. My 23andme results indicate 98.8% Ashkenazi Jewish, and 1.1% Broadly European. My gedmatch results tell an interesting story - namely, I found that the Eurogenes calculators did not provide as strong a result as the dodecad, and one of the world calculators did the best. I found out that not only am I likely less european than I thought, I'm also barely eastern european (and instead more western european)
I'd love to hear from other Jews about their results as well, and any advice on figuring out more about my recent + distant ancestry/nationalities of family, as well as figuring out roughly how much near east/middle eastern descent I have.
Paternal haplogroup: E-M215; Maternal haplogroup: V7
Gedmatch Calculators I tried (every place I have been told I may have heritage from): Eurogenes K-13, Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15, MDLP K23b, Dodecad V3, Dodecad K7b, and MDLP world (with the last 3 being the strongest match numbers-wise).
Short info from each test (will post the full thing if requested), with only the top few results from each category included:
Eurogenes K13 4-ancestors oracle
1 East_Med 34.00 ... 2 North_Atlantic 19.09 .... 3 West_Med 18.01 ... 4 West_Asian 10.15 .... 5 Red_Sea 7.75 ..... 6 Baltic 7.30 ..... 7 Northeast_African 1.26
(1 pop)1 Ashkenazi @ 5.165201 ..... 2 East_Sicilian @ 7.365331 .... 3 Sephardic_Jewish @ 8.017476
(I assume 5 is pretty good - but some of my results on other calculators were basically exactly at a '1', thus much stronger)
(2 pop, 3 pop) 50% North_Italian +50% Palestinian @ 4.133669 .... 50% Ashkenazi +25% Lebanese_Druze +25% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.262302
(4 pop) Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Galicia @ 2.216298 .... Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + Portuguese @ 2.235578 ..... Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Murcia @ 2.262302
Eurogene K13, regular (not 4) oracle
Ashkenazi 4.59 .... East_Sicilian 6.47 .... Sephardic_Jewish 7.07 .... Italian_Jewish 7.14
Mixed mode population sharing
(I'm definitely mostly ashkenazi ,not sephardic? Though my maternal haplogroup is linked to the Sami of Finland/Sweden -V7- and my paternal haplogroup to north african/sephardic areas - E-M215)
87.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 12.2% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.28
87.2% Italian_Jewish + 12.8% North_Swedish @ 2.34
Eurogene EUtest V2 K15
(1 pop) 1 West_Sicilian @ 7.681046. (A pretty weak match, comparatively)
(4 pop) French_Basque + Greek + Saudi + Turkish @ 1.9355282
French_Basque + Greek + Turkish + Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.7782373
French_Basque + Italian_Abruzzo + Saudi + Turkish @ 2.7789504
Azeri + French_Basque + Greek + Saudi @ 2.8484585 Bulgarian + French_Basque + Turkish + Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.855746
This includes 0 of my known backgrounds, and I don't know of any heritage in any of these places - just seems very strange. And it's much less strong than dodecad/world?
Regular (not 4) oracle results:
1 West_Sicilian 7.04 .... 2 Italian_Abruzzo 7.17 .... 3 East_Sicilian 7.42 ..... 4 Ashkenazi 7.88
Mixed Mode Population Sharing: 1 65% Syrian + 35% French_Basque @ 3.82
(I am definitely not 65% Syrian. There's no way this is right.)
Dodecad V3 4-Ancestors Oracle
1 Mediterranean 33.55 .... 2 West_Asian 20.15 ... 3 West_European 19.93 ... 4 Southwest_Asian 14.43 .... 5 East_European 5.92 ... 6 East_African 1.82 .... 7 Northwest_African 1.52 ... 8 South_Asian 1.27
Using 1 population approximation, top 2 results *This is a great fit for what I've been told*:
1 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar @ 4.9162222
Ashkenazi_Dodecad @ 5.672788
BUT when we go to the other numbers, it gets weird: (2 pop, 3 pop) 1 50% N_Italian_Dodecad +50% Syrians_Behar @ 4.869880 ... 1 50% Samaritians_Behar +25% Spanish_Dodecad +25% Slovenian_Xing @ 2.072540
(4 pop) 1 Bedouin_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad + S_Italian_Dodecad + N._European_Xing @ 1.4987932
French_Basque_HGDP + Jordanians_19_Behar + Romanians_14_Behar + Samaritians_Behar @ 1.6309023
Georgia_Jews_Behar + Jordanians_19_Behar + Sardinian_HGDP + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.6645214
Bedouin_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad + S_Italian_Dodecad + Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 1.7367235
Bedouin_HGDP + German_Dodecad + S_Italian_Dodecad + S_Italian_Dodecad @ 1.785321
Given these results, I tried MDLP k23b next, 4-Ancestors Oracle - this was somewhat stronger, but still not as close as dodecad or the MDLP World
1 Caucasian 34.86 .... 2 European_Early_Farmers 21.25 ... 3 Near_East 13.84 ... 4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.48 ... 5 South_Central_Asian 8.74 .... 6 North_African 5.83
(What does this admix mean? I've heard this calculator gives one of the most accurate admix readings?)
(1 pop) 1 Sicilian_West_ @ 4.818871 ... 2 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 6.185943 ... 3 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 6.476774 ... 4 Sicilian_East_ @ 6.786602 ... 5 Cretan_ @ 6.909686
(2 pop, 3 pop) 1 50% Italian_Piedmont_ +50% Lebanese_ @ 3.345132 .... 1 50% Cretan_ +25% Portugese_ +25% Syrian_ @ 2.158256
(4 pop)1 Iraqi_Chaldean_ + Kosovar_ + Portugese_ + Samaritian_ @ 1.3233082
Georgian_Jew_ + Greek_Peloponnesos_ + Samaritian_ + Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS_ @ 1.3447933
Bulgarian_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + Samaritian_ + Spanish_Andalucia_IBS_ @ 1.3646444
Iranian_Jew_ + Kosovar_ + Samaritian_ + Spanish_Galicia_IBS_ @ 1.3671845
Iraqi_Jew_ + Kosovar_ + Portugese_ + Samaritian_ @ 1.402817
Again, seems kinda unlikely, though the numbers are better - but still not the best
Dodecad K7b 4-Ancestors Oracle
1 Southern 36.78 ... 2 Atlantic_Baltic 35.16 ... 3 West_Asian 24.86 ... 4 East_Asian 1.12 ... 5 South_Asian 1.07
(1 pop - WOW these 1 pop numbers are far stronger than European 1-pop) 1 S_Italian_Sicilian_Dodecad @ 2.039870 ... 2 Sicilian_Dodecad @ 2.352299 ... 3 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar @ 2.933944 ... 4 Ashkenazi_Dodecad @ 3.033664 ... 5 Greek_Dodecad @ 6.916667
(2 pop, 3 pop)1 50% Baleares_1000Genomes +50% Druze_HGDP @ 1.750927 ...
1 50% Ashkenazi_Dodecad +25% French_Basque_HGDP +25% Iranian_Jews_Behar @ 1.156037
***(Any chance this one is accurate? Numbers aren't quite as good as some other readings but fits more with what I know and is still pretty close to 1?)***
(4 pop - odd results, and while they're pretty good numbers-wise, MDLP world oracle-4 has even better numbers that also fit better?)
Assyrian_Dodecad + Portuguese_Dodecad + Sardinian_HGDP + Turkish_Dodecad @ 0.8102392
Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Portuguese_Dodecad + Sardinian_HGDP + Turkish_Dodecad @ 0.8560583
Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + Sardinian_HGDP + Turkish_Dodecad @ 0.8647514
Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Galicia_1000Genomes + Sardinian_HGDP + Turkish_Dodecad @ 0.9143385
Cataluna_1000Genomes + Kurd_Dodecad + Lebanese_Behar + Sardinian_HGDP @ 0.9223556
Cataluna_1000Genomes + Kurds_Yunusbayev + Lebanese_Behar + Sardinian_HGDP @ 0.927992
Surprisingly, this "MDLP WORLD" calculator had the 'best' numbers- the numbers for the regular Oracle mode were good, and the ones for oracle-4 were really really good, I think? (less than .8 for the top result) Does this seem likely to be the accurate one? What does it mean about my ethnicity if MDLP world > Dodecad > Eurogenes?
MDLP world (removed all below 1%)
1 South_and_West_European 37.68 .. 2 Middle_East 26.83 .. 3 Caucaus_Parsia 18.36 .. 4 North_and_East_European 13.7
(If I'm reading this correctly, this means I'm basically 50% european, 27% middle eastern, and... what the heck is caucaus-parsia??)
(regular oracle - not oracle 4)
(1 pop) 1 Jew_Romania 3.9 ... 2 Sicilian 8.01 ... 3 Ashkenazim 8.11
(mixed mode pop sharing)
1 93.1% Jew_Romania 6.9% Jew_Yemen 1.25
2 92.7% Jew_Romania 7.3% Bedouin 1.31
3 93.3% Jew_Romania 6.7% Saudi 1.33
Oracle 4 for the MDLP world
(1 pop) 1 Jew_Romania @ 4.255422 ... 2 Ashkenazim @ 8.298324 ... 3 Sicilian @ 8.8270254 Jew_France @ 9.373415 ... 5 Jew_Italia @ 9.521296 ... 6 Ashkenazim_V @ 9.895504 ...
(2 pop, 3 pop) 1 50% Jew_Libya +50% Gagauz @ 2.670793 .... 1 50% Jew_France +25% Druze +25% Czech @ 1.549186
(4 pop)1 Bosnian + Jew**_Yemen +** Adygei + Sardinian @ 0.757367
2 Jew_Yemen + Kumyk + Sardinian + Croatian @ 0.839085
3 Bosnian + Jew_Yemen + Kumyk + Sardinian @ 0.841769
4 Samaritian + Jew_Romania + Jew_Romania + Swiss @ 0.870346
5 Samaritian + Lebanese + Montenegrin + Spaniard @ 0.885835
6 Samaritian + Ashkenazim_V + Bulgarian + Sicilian @ 0.950142
7 Samaritian + Lebanese + Spaniard + Macedonian @ 0.952082
8 Jew_Yemen + Greek_Azov + Italian_North + Kosovar @ 0.974675
9 Cypriot + Latvian_V + Jew_France + Jew_Morocco @ 0.990775
10 Cypriot + Latvian_V + Jew_Italia + Jew_Morocco @ 0.999413
11 Jew_Yemen + Greek_Azov + Kosovar + Provancal @ 1.000481
12 Samaritian + Jew_Romania + Jew_Romania + Provancal @ 1.001139
13 Samaritian + Jew_Romania + Serbian + Sicilian @ 1.019040
14 Jew_Yemen + Adygei + Sardinian + Croatian @ 1.025965
15 Bosnian + Jew_Yemen + Balkarian + Sardinian @ 1.056478
16 Bosnian + Jew_Yemen + Kabardinian + Sardinian @ 1.068458
17 Jew_Yemen + Georgian + Hungarian + Sardinian @ 1.071559
18 Samaritian + Lebanese + Montenegrin + Iberian @ 1.075426
19 Jew_Yemen + Greek_Azov + Swiss + Kosovar @ 1.080963
20 Samaritian + Hungarian + Greek_Center + Sephardim @ 1.093122
I'd love to hear from other Jews about their results as well, and any advice on figuring out more about my recent + distant ancestry/nationalities of family, as well as figuring out roughly how much near east/middle eastern descent I have.
Paternal haplogroup: E-M215; Maternal haplogroup: V7
Gedmatch Calculators I tried (every place I have been told I may have heritage from): Eurogenes K-13, Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15, MDLP K23b, Dodecad V3, Dodecad K7b, and MDLP world (with the last 3 being the strongest match numbers-wise).
Short info from each test (will post the full thing if requested), with only the top few results from each category included:
Eurogenes K13 4-ancestors oracle
1 East_Med 34.00 ... 2 North_Atlantic 19.09 .... 3 West_Med 18.01 ... 4 West_Asian 10.15 .... 5 Red_Sea 7.75 ..... 6 Baltic 7.30 ..... 7 Northeast_African 1.26
(1 pop)1 Ashkenazi @ 5.165201 ..... 2 East_Sicilian @ 7.365331 .... 3 Sephardic_Jewish @ 8.017476
(I assume 5 is pretty good - but some of my results on other calculators were basically exactly at a '1', thus much stronger)
(2 pop, 3 pop) 50% North_Italian +50% Palestinian @ 4.133669 .... 50% Ashkenazi +25% Lebanese_Druze +25% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.262302
(4 pop) Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Galicia @ 2.216298 .... Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + Portuguese @ 2.235578 ..... Ashkenazi + Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Murcia @ 2.262302
Eurogene K13, regular (not 4) oracle
Ashkenazi 4.59 .... East_Sicilian 6.47 .... Sephardic_Jewish 7.07 .... Italian_Jewish 7.14
Mixed mode population sharing
(I'm definitely mostly ashkenazi ,not sephardic? Though my maternal haplogroup is linked to the Sami of Finland/Sweden -V7- and my paternal haplogroup to north african/sephardic areas - E-M215)
87.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 12.2% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.28
87.2% Italian_Jewish + 12.8% North_Swedish @ 2.34
Eurogene EUtest V2 K15
(1 pop) 1 West_Sicilian @ 7.681046. (A pretty weak match, comparatively)
(4 pop) French_Basque + Greek + Saudi + Turkish @ 1.9355282
French_Basque + Greek + Turkish + Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.7782373
French_Basque + Italian_Abruzzo + Saudi + Turkish @ 2.7789504
Azeri + French_Basque + Greek + Saudi @ 2.8484585 Bulgarian + French_Basque + Turkish + Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.855746
This includes 0 of my known backgrounds, and I don't know of any heritage in any of these places - just seems very strange. And it's much less strong than dodecad/world?
Regular (not 4) oracle results:
1 West_Sicilian 7.04 .... 2 Italian_Abruzzo 7.17 .... 3 East_Sicilian 7.42 ..... 4 Ashkenazi 7.88
Mixed Mode Population Sharing: 1 65% Syrian + 35% French_Basque @ 3.82
(I am definitely not 65% Syrian. There's no way this is right.)
Dodecad V3 4-Ancestors Oracle
1 Mediterranean 33.55 .... 2 West_Asian 20.15 ... 3 West_European 19.93 ... 4 Southwest_Asian 14.43 .... 5 East_European 5.92 ... 6 East_African 1.82 .... 7 Northwest_African 1.52 ... 8 South_Asian 1.27
Using 1 population approximation, top 2 results *This is a great fit for what I've been told*:
1 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar @ 4.9162222
Ashkenazi_Dodecad @ 5.672788
BUT when we go to the other numbers, it gets weird: (2 pop, 3 pop) 1 50% N_Italian_Dodecad +50% Syrians_Behar @ 4.869880 ... 1 50% Samaritians_Behar +25% Spanish_Dodecad +25% Slovenian_Xing @ 2.072540
(4 pop) 1 Bedouin_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad + S_Italian_Dodecad + N._European_Xing @ 1.4987932
French_Basque_HGDP + Jordanians_19_Behar + Romanians_14_Behar + Samaritians_Behar @ 1.6309023
Georgia_Jews_Behar + Jordanians_19_Behar + Sardinian_HGDP + Slovenian_Xing @ 1.6645214
Bedouin_HGDP + Greek_Dodecad + S_Italian_Dodecad + Argyll_1000 Genomes @ 1.7367235
Bedouin_HGDP + German_Dodecad + S_Italian_Dodecad + S_Italian_Dodecad @ 1.785321
Given these results, I tried MDLP k23b next, 4-Ancestors Oracle - this was somewhat stronger, but still not as close as dodecad or the MDLP World
1 Caucasian 34.86 .... 2 European_Early_Farmers 21.25 ... 3 Near_East 13.84 ... 4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.48 ... 5 South_Central_Asian 8.74 .... 6 North_African 5.83
(What does this admix mean? I've heard this calculator gives one of the most accurate admix readings?)
(1 pop) 1 Sicilian_West_ @ 4.818871 ... 2 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 6.185943 ... 3 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 6.476774 ... 4 Sicilian_East_ @ 6.786602 ... 5 Cretan_ @ 6.909686
(2 pop, 3 pop) 1 50% Italian_Piedmont_ +50% Lebanese_ @ 3.345132 .... 1 50% Cretan_ +25% Portugese_ +25% Syrian_ @ 2.158256
(4 pop)1 Iraqi_Chaldean_ + Kosovar_ + Portugese_ + Samaritian_ @ 1.3233082
Georgian_Jew_ + Greek_Peloponnesos_ + Samaritian_ + Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS_ @ 1.3447933
Bulgarian_ + Iraqi_Jew_ + Samaritian_ + Spanish_Andalucia_IBS_ @ 1.3646444
Iranian_Jew_ + Kosovar_ + Samaritian_ + Spanish_Galicia_IBS_ @ 1.3671845
Iraqi_Jew_ + Kosovar_ + Portugese_ + Samaritian_ @ 1.402817
Again, seems kinda unlikely, though the numbers are better - but still not the best
Dodecad K7b 4-Ancestors Oracle
1 Southern 36.78 ... 2 Atlantic_Baltic 35.16 ... 3 West_Asian 24.86 ... 4 East_Asian 1.12 ... 5 South_Asian 1.07
(1 pop - WOW these 1 pop numbers are far stronger than European 1-pop) 1 S_Italian_Sicilian_Dodecad @ 2.039870 ... 2 Sicilian_Dodecad @ 2.352299 ... 3 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar @ 2.933944 ... 4 Ashkenazi_Dodecad @ 3.033664 ... 5 Greek_Dodecad @ 6.916667
(2 pop, 3 pop)1 50% Baleares_1000Genomes +50% Druze_HGDP @ 1.750927 ...
1 50% Ashkenazi_Dodecad +25% French_Basque_HGDP +25% Iranian_Jews_Behar @ 1.156037
***(Any chance this one is accurate? Numbers aren't quite as good as some other readings but fits more with what I know and is still pretty close to 1?)***
(4 pop - odd results, and while they're pretty good numbers-wise, MDLP world oracle-4 has even better numbers that also fit better?)
Assyrian_Dodecad + Portuguese_Dodecad + Sardinian_HGDP + Turkish_Dodecad @ 0.8102392
Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Portuguese_Dodecad + Sardinian_HGDP + Turkish_Dodecad @ 0.8560583
Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + Sardinian_HGDP + Turkish_Dodecad @ 0.8647514
Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar + Galicia_1000Genomes + Sardinian_HGDP + Turkish_Dodecad @ 0.9143385
Cataluna_1000Genomes + Kurd_Dodecad + Lebanese_Behar + Sardinian_HGDP @ 0.9223556
Cataluna_1000Genomes + Kurds_Yunusbayev + Lebanese_Behar + Sardinian_HGDP @ 0.927992
Surprisingly, this "MDLP WORLD" calculator had the 'best' numbers- the numbers for the regular Oracle mode were good, and the ones for oracle-4 were really really good, I think? (less than .8 for the top result) Does this seem likely to be the accurate one? What does it mean about my ethnicity if MDLP world > Dodecad > Eurogenes?
MDLP world (removed all below 1%)
1 South_and_West_European 37.68 .. 2 Middle_East 26.83 .. 3 Caucaus_Parsia 18.36 .. 4 North_and_East_European 13.7
(If I'm reading this correctly, this means I'm basically 50% european, 27% middle eastern, and... what the heck is caucaus-parsia??)
(regular oracle - not oracle 4)
(1 pop) 1 Jew_Romania 3.9 ... 2 Sicilian 8.01 ... 3 Ashkenazim 8.11
(mixed mode pop sharing)
1 93.1% Jew_Romania 6.9% Jew_Yemen 1.25
2 92.7% Jew_Romania 7.3% Bedouin 1.31
3 93.3% Jew_Romania 6.7% Saudi 1.33
Oracle 4 for the MDLP world
(1 pop) 1 Jew_Romania @ 4.255422 ... 2 Ashkenazim @ 8.298324 ... 3 Sicilian @ 8.8270254 Jew_France @ 9.373415 ... 5 Jew_Italia @ 9.521296 ... 6 Ashkenazim_V @ 9.895504 ...
(2 pop, 3 pop) 1 50% Jew_Libya +50% Gagauz @ 2.670793 .... 1 50% Jew_France +25% Druze +25% Czech @ 1.549186
(4 pop)1 Bosnian + Jew**_Yemen +** Adygei + Sardinian @ 0.757367
2 Jew_Yemen + Kumyk + Sardinian + Croatian @ 0.839085
3 Bosnian + Jew_Yemen + Kumyk + Sardinian @ 0.841769
4 Samaritian + Jew_Romania + Jew_Romania + Swiss @ 0.870346
5 Samaritian + Lebanese + Montenegrin + Spaniard @ 0.885835
6 Samaritian + Ashkenazim_V + Bulgarian + Sicilian @ 0.950142
7 Samaritian + Lebanese + Spaniard + Macedonian @ 0.952082
8 Jew_Yemen + Greek_Azov + Italian_North + Kosovar @ 0.974675
9 Cypriot + Latvian_V + Jew_France + Jew_Morocco @ 0.990775
10 Cypriot + Latvian_V + Jew_Italia + Jew_Morocco @ 0.999413
11 Jew_Yemen + Greek_Azov + Kosovar + Provancal @ 1.000481
12 Samaritian + Jew_Romania + Jew_Romania + Provancal @ 1.001139
13 Samaritian + Jew_Romania + Serbian + Sicilian @ 1.019040
14 Jew_Yemen + Adygei + Sardinian + Croatian @ 1.025965
15 Bosnian + Jew_Yemen + Balkarian + Sardinian @ 1.056478
16 Bosnian + Jew_Yemen + Kabardinian + Sardinian @ 1.068458
17 Jew_Yemen + Georgian + Hungarian + Sardinian @ 1.071559
18 Samaritian + Lebanese + Montenegrin + Iberian @ 1.075426
19 Jew_Yemen + Greek_Azov + Swiss + Kosovar @ 1.080963
20 Samaritian + Hungarian + Greek_Center + Sephardim @ 1.093122