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Halgurd
06-12-2020, 01:47 PM
I was wondering if there is any good data on haplogroup distribution in Iraq, specifically on E-M78 and E-V13. There was this (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5669434/) study done but it did not go beyond e1b1b.

Farroukh
06-13-2020, 11:06 AM
E-BY5787 is Middle Eastern downstream of E-V13 (V13-->Z1057-->CTS1273-->BY3880-->Y16729-->BY5787

Julian's Persian War in IV cent. AD is one of possible ways.

In general nowadays Iraq inhabited by all basic downstreams of E-M35&M2

Lupriac
06-13-2020, 10:55 PM
E-BY5787 is Middle Eastern downstream of E-V13 (V13-->Z1057-->CTS1273-->BY3880-->Y16729-->BY5787

Julian's Persian War in IV cent. AD is one of possible ways.

In general nowadays Iraq inhabited by all basic downstreams of E-M35&M2

How do you think E-V22 and E-V12 got in to the Iraqi population? Is it possible through the Akkadian migration from the Levant, or possibly a later incursion of Aramaeans?

Farroukh
06-14-2020, 09:44 AM
How do you think E-V22 and E-V12 got in to the Iraqi population? Is it possible through the Akkadian migration from the Levant, or possibly a later incursion of Aramaeans?
... and from ancient Yemen too

Halgurd
06-14-2020, 09:58 AM
E-BY5787 is Middle Eastern downstream of E-V13 (V13-->Z1057-->CTS1273-->BY3880-->Y16729-->BY5787

Julian's Persian War in IV cent. AD is one of possible ways.

In general nowadays Iraq inhabited by all basic downstreams of E-M35&M2

Thanks, this seems be different to Kurdish E-V13 clades.

Farroukh
06-14-2020, 10:05 AM
Common nodes of:
E-V12 in Iraq (https://yfull.com/tree/E-FGC14382/)
E-V13 in Iraq (https://yfull.com/tree/E-BY5787/)
E-V22 in Iraq (https://yfull.com/tree/E-Y20282/)
E-M2 in Iraq (https://yfull.com/tree/E-Z1704/)

Farroukh
06-14-2020, 12:13 PM
this seems be different to Kurdish E-V13 clades.
Which E-V13 subclade do you belong to?

Halgurd
06-14-2020, 12:19 PM
Which E-V13 subclade do you belong to?

I’m not sure I haven’t been tested further but 1 Kurd belongs to E-CTS5856* negative for all downstream clades and another (Druze with Kurdish origins) belongs to Z40644.

Farroukh
06-14-2020, 01:18 PM
Can you post your Y-STRs here?

1 Kurd belongs to E-CTS5856*
Is this BigY result?

Druze with Kurdish origins) belongs to Z40644.
He belongs to E-BY5024

I see no specific Kurdish subclades of E-V13 (if I understand you right y mean "Kurdish=Kurmanji")

Halgurd
06-14-2020, 01:58 PM
Is this BigY result?

I believe so. It’s from here (http://corduene.blogspot.com/2016/03/kurdish-tribes-y-dna-haplogroups.html)
His ftdna ID is 536478.

I am on there too under Balakan.



He belongs to E-BY5024

I see no specific Kurdish subclades of E-V13 (if I understand you right y mean "Kurdish=Kurmanji")

I mean the sub clades of E-V13 that I have seen Kurds belong to so far, not specific Kurdish ones.

Farroukh
06-14-2020, 02:45 PM
Do you have Y-STR matches? I see only a few members E-M34 of Dersim project, not E-V13

Halgurd
06-14-2020, 03:02 PM
Do you have Y-STR matches?

I tested with 23andme so I don’t have any matches like that. I am thinking of doing ftdna but honestly I don’t think it will tell me any information that I don’t already know.


I see only a few members E-M34 of Dersim project, not E-V13

The ones I’m talking about are:

Baabe - E1b1b1-M35>M78>V13>CTS5856* - SilÍmanÓ, SoranÓ FTDNA: 536478

Joumblatt (Canbolad) - E1b1b1-M35>M78>V13>Z40644 - Lebanon, Kurmanji FTDNA: M10306

Farroukh
06-14-2020, 03:13 PM
I am thinking of doing ftdna but honestly I don’t think it will tell me any information that I don’t already know.
E-V13 is too abstract node and gives only general info. Try to get Y-DNA tests at FTDNA.

P.S. Dımıli people trace they ancestral homeland to Daylam, like mine too.

Halgurd
06-14-2020, 05:09 PM
Found this on twitter

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5MDb-uW4AA_Q3x?format=png&name=medium

Aspar
06-14-2020, 05:45 PM
E-BY5787 is Middle Eastern downstream of E-V13 (V13-->Z1057-->CTS1273-->BY3880-->Y16729-->BY5787

Julian's Persian War in IV cent. AD is one of possible ways.

In general nowadays Iraq inhabited by all basic downstreams of E-M35&M2

That's likely if we take yfull's TMRCA estimated date for this particular subclade which is estimated to around a thousand ybp but because it's downstream subclade BY40482's TMRCA is 1600 ybp, the TMRCA for BY40482 is applied for BY5787 as well.

Now the TMRCA of 1600 ybp is the middle point between the TMRCA of the sample with the most private variants, i.e 2280 ybp and the TMRCA of the sample with the least private variants, i.e 944 ybp.

In other words, the progenitor of BY5787 could have landed in the countries of the Arabian/Persian Gulf anytime between those two aforementioned dates.

Therefore there might be many different explanations of how this subclade might have ended up in those countries.

Also we have to consider the fact that this subclade might have a lot more older presence there and a local founder effect after long bottleneck might have leaded to it's current TMRCA. There are many such scenarios especially in the Balkans where many subclades under E-V13 with TMRCA around the EM period can be found.

Halgurd
06-16-2020, 12:17 PM
Mandean E-V13. Very interesting how these Middle Eastern closed genetic communities (like the Druze as well) have E-V13. I havenít seen any proper study done on the Mandeans yet though.

Məndaean, E1b1b1a>Z1919>V13 ~ Məysan, Iraq
E1b1b-M215→ E1b1b1-M35→ V68/L539→ M78→ Z1919→ L618→ V13.

I believe it is from the Dersim DNA project:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=tr&fbclid=IwAR3CLV0gbU9KdL7Gu-nIRcB87bFEq3g39exbAtGtuEEzq5_W9GE7otsQgjY&mid=1xYZrp9V60fcsnLXZR8t_vrLQdEU&ll=31.72078240251881%2C47.956311638311576&z=8

Lupriac
06-28-2020, 11:17 AM
Mandean E-V13. Very interesting how these Middle Eastern closed genetic communities (like the Druze as well) have E-V13. I haven’t seen any proper study done on the Mandeans yet though.

Məndaean, E1b1b1a>Z1919>V13 ~ Məysan, Iraq
E1b1b-M215→ E1b1b1-M35→ V68/L539→ M78→ Z1919→ L618→ V13.

I believe it is from the Dersim DNA project:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=tr&fbclid=IwAR3CLV0gbU9KdL7Gu-nIRcB87bFEq3g39exbAtGtuEEzq5_W9GE7otsQgjY&mid=1xYZrp9V60fcsnLXZR8t_vrLQdEU&ll=31.72078240251881%2C47.956311638311576&z=8

Mandaeans follow a Gnostic religion that claims to follow "John the Baptist", which actually wasn't very unique of a claim, in the province of Syria there were other Gnostic sects that held this claim as well (before the mass adoption of Christianity in around the middle 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries in the Levant and Mesopotamia. A migration from that region would make sense, as well as the incorporation of native Mesopotamians upon settling before becoming strictly endogamous. As Farroukh previously pointed out, a Greek origin is a potential scenario. Is there any way to find out the subclade?

Halgurd
06-28-2020, 11:43 AM
Mandaeans follow a Gnostic religion that claims to follow "John the Baptist", which actually wasn't very unique of a claim, in the province of Syria there were other Gnostic sects that held this claim as well (before the mass adoption of Christianity in around the middle 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries in the Levant and Mesopotamia. A migration from that region would make sense, as well as the incorporation of native Mesopotamians upon settling before becoming strictly endogamous. As Farroukh previously pointed out, a Greek origin is a potential scenario. Is there any way to find out the subclade?

Not sure about the subclade in all honesty.

Do you think the same explanation can be provided for Druze E-V13?

Lupriac
06-28-2020, 11:51 AM
Not sure about the subclade in all honesty.

Do you think the same explanation can be provided for Druze E-V13?

Druze E-V13 sample you linked above seems to be of Kurdish origins. The family, a famous one in Lebanon, traces back to a Aleppo and Kilis regions. I'm pretty sure a significant percentage of Kurds are not of the original Kurds who migrated from Azerbaijan/northeastern Iran, rather a native population that adopted and assimilated. As for Druze in general, E-V13 seems to be relatively more frequent than in other communities in the region, and I'm sure the larger majority of it traces to Greek or Roman remnants. Another scenario I believe would be the Indo-Iranians. E-BY5787 seems to be approximately 4100 years old, which matches the Indo-Iranian migrations. But at the moment further samples and ancient remains are needed.

Farroukh
06-29-2020, 06:32 AM
Druze community derives from Ismailites and became close group in late Medieval times. It is not an long-term endohamy.

WADIGAJI
10-17-2020, 11:24 AM
... and from ancient Yemen too

I am Eritrean with E-V6 haplogroup . I recent got a match on yfull ....he is iraqi who claims his ancestors came from Yemen centuries ago. He belongs to the Mijma3 tribe. Not sure if this is relevant to the topic but i figured i throw it out there .

Farroukh
10-17-2020, 03:12 PM
It seems you belong to E-Y53130