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Farroukh
06-18-2020, 08:58 AM
Dear fellows, maybe you are educated better than me in Iraq/Iran medieval history and genealogy.

I have my paternal shajara (genealogy) drawn up in 1848 (and later extended up to me in 2019). It seems to be speculation because it traced through Nizar (Ismailite dai), Safi-ad-din Ardabili (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safi-ad-din_Ardabili) (b. 1252) to Ibrahim ibn Adham (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_ibn_Adham) (b. 718).

32. Ibrahim ibn Adham, b. 718 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_ibn_Adham)
31. Mohammad
30. Mawla Musa
29. Seyyed Muhammad
28. Hasan Fazullah
27. Muhammad Adl
26. Sharafshah
25. Majd Mohammad
24. Firuz Shah Zarin Kulah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firuz-Shah_Zarrin-Kolah)
23. Awwad Fazl Faiq
22. Qutb al-din Mohammad
21. Salih at-din Rashid
20. Qutb al-din Abu-bakr
19. Shaykh Amin al-Din Jabrail
18. Shaykh Safi al-din Abul Fatah Eshaq, b. 1252 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safi-ad-din_Ardabili)
17. Shaykh Rukn ad-din Jabrail
16. Shaykh Imad ad-din Pir Asaf
15. Shaykh Ruh ul Amin ad-din
14. Shaykh Nazar Jalal ad din
13. Shaykh Amin ad-din Puyi
12. Shaykh Khalifa Jafar
11. Shaykh Nazar Ali
10. Shaykh Mahdi
9. Shaykh Eywaz Ali
8. Shaykh Nazar Ali
7. Haji Novruz Ali
6. Haji Imam Ali, b. 1750
5. Mirza Ali, b. 1792
4. Haji Nur Ali, b. 1819
3. Nazar Ali, b. 1873
2. Akbar, b. 1906
1. Ali Nazar, b. 1940
0. me, b. 1978

Steps 18-29 are strongly matched with Safavi lineage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_dynasty_family_tree).
Are they traced their ancestry to Ibrahim ibn Adham from Kufa, Iraq?

My BigY results (https://yfull.com/tree/E-Y37518/), YF02731.
Only Y12 Arabian matches from different subclades.

nuplix
06-18-2020, 09:57 AM
Being a follower of Sufism, I read the life of Ibrahim bin Adham written by Sheikh Farid ud Din Attar. He was the King of Balkh.

Halgurd
06-18-2020, 09:58 AM
Didnít the Safavids claim descent from Imam Ali?

Very interesting btw thanks for sharing.

Ahmed Ali
06-18-2020, 10:25 AM
Fascinating. My family belongs to the Chishti-Nezami order of Sufism which is prevalent in the subcontinent, in particular in Punjab and Delhi. We have a Shajrah Sharif document hanging in our home which reaches Hazrat Ibrahim Ibn Adham, but I understand that this is a master-student genealogy - not a biological lineage. However, one of our patron saints in Punjab - Sheikh Fariduddin Ganj-i-Shakar - was a lineal descendant of Ibrahim Adham and belonged to the royal family of Kabul which fled to Multan on the Mongol invasion. I will see if I can obtain a copy of his family tree as it would be interesting to see if there is any cross-over with the early generations in your recorded line of descent. Best wishes.

Farroukh
06-18-2020, 01:59 PM
I read the life of Ibrahim bin Adham written by Sheikh Farid ud Din Attar
Are there any info about descendants of Ibrahim bin Adham?

Didn’t the Safavids claim descent from Imam Ali?
Yes, it noted in many chronicles. But it seems to be later speculation for rating increase among Shia community. Also there are many other different lineages who traced themselves to Shaykh Safi.

if I can obtain a copy of his family tree as it would be interesting to see if there is any cross-over with the early generations in your recorded line of descent.
Many thanks, it will be very interesting. Please, share it when you have it.

Web-site of Ahram (http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/32/1169/256255/Folk/Inspiring-Minds/Ibrahim-Ibn-Adham-The-prince-of-Sufis.aspx):

Ibrahim ibn Adham ibn Mansour ibn Gaber Al-Agli, born in Balakh, Afghanistan and known as Al-Tamimi
I have several Al-Tamimi Y12 matches. But all of them belong to E-M84, not my branch. We have no common paternal ancestry of medieval period.

Farroukh
06-20-2020, 08:18 AM
I will see if I can obtain a copy of his family tree as it would be interesting to see if there is any cross-over with the early generations in your recorded line of descent. Best wishes.
Dear Ahmed Ali,
As far as I know, Ibrahim ibn Adham was ascetic andmaybe has no family and descendants. Is it confirmed by his biography?
This shajara echoing with Safavi lineage seems to be speculation. Along with this, I have another version drawn up in 1848 (and later extended up to me in 2019):

20. Shaykh Agha Nizar Daylami, Alamut
19. Shaykh Yossi, Alamut
18. Shaykh Davud, Alamut
17. Shaykh Sulayman, Talysh
16. Shaykh Davud, Shamakha
15. Shaykh Jafar, Shamakha
14. Shaykh Qafar, Shamakha
13. Shaykh Jabbar, Gilazi
12. Shaykh khalifa Jafar, Gilazi
11. Shaykh Nazar Ali, Baku
10. Shaykh Mahdi, Baku
9. Shaykh Eyvaz Ali, Baku
8. Shaykh Nazar Ali, Baku
7. Haji Novruz Ali, Baku
6. Haji Imam Ali, b. 1750, Baku
5. Mirza Ali, b. 1792, Baku
4. Haji Nur Ali, b. 1819, Baku
3. Nazar Ali, b. 1873, Baku
2. Akbar, b. 1906, Baku
1. Ali Nazar, b. 1940, Baku
0. Me, b. 1978, Baku

Steps 0-12 are the same as in first version. Then steps 12-20 trace it to Agha Nizar Daylami, Ismailite dai. I tried to find any info about Ismaili medieval person but with no provable results. Maybe he can be associated with Nizari Quhistani (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizari_Quhistani) or someone else..?

Maybe you my frienda know something new about these persons

Farroukh
07-09-2020, 09:15 AM
The genealogy of Sheikh Farid Ganj-e Shakar:

Hadrat Umar Bin Khattab, second Caliph
2. Hadrat Abdullah Ibn Umar
3. Nasir
4. Sulaiman
5. Adham, King of Balkh and Bukhara
6. Ibrahim Bin Adham aka Abou Ben Adham
7. Ishaq
8. Abul Fatah
9. Abdullah Waa’iz Kobra
10. Abdullah Waa’iz Soghra
11. Masood
12. Sulaiman
13. Ishaq
14. Muhammad
15. Naseeruddin
16. Farrukh Shah Kabuli, King of Afghanistan
17. Shahabuddin Kabuli
18. Muhammed
19. Yousuf
20. Ahmed, died fighting Hulaku Khan
21. Shoaib
22. Jamaluddin Sulaiman
23. Baba Fareed Gunj Shakar

Farroukh
07-09-2020, 09:18 AM
I never read about Ibrahim b. Adham' s sons. All legends talk about death of his son (no name) and ascetic life. But now we have information about Ishaq (ancestor of Farid baba) and Mohammad (ancestor of Safavids.
Ibrhaim's lineage traced to Umar. It means his real descendants should be J1-P58.
???

It seems to be speculation

royaljoker
01-09-2021, 12:45 PM
Dear fellows, maybe you are educated better than me in Iraq/Iran medieval history and genealogy.

I have my paternal shajara (genealogy) drawn up in 1848 (and later extended up to me in 2019). It seems to be speculation because it traced through Nizar (Ismailite dai), Safi-ad-din Ardabili (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safi-ad-din_Ardabili) (b. 1252) to Ibrahim ibn Adham (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_ibn_Adham) (b. 718).

32. Ibrahim ibn Adham, b. 718 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_ibn_Adham)
31. Mohammad
30. Mawla Musa
29. Seyyed Muhammad
28. Hasan Fazullah
27. Muhammad Adl
26. Sharafshah
25. Majd Mohammad
24. Firuz Shah Zarin Kulah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firuz-Shah_Zarrin-Kolah)
23. Awwad Fazl Faiq
22. Qutb al-din Mohammad
21. Salih at-din Rashid
20. Qutb al-din Abu-bakr
19. Shaykh Amin al-Din Jabrail
18. Shaykh Safi al-din Abul Fatah Eshaq, b. 1252 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safi-ad-din_Ardabili)
17. Shaykh Rukn ad-din Jabrail
16. Shaykh Imad ad-din Pir Asaf
15. Shaykh Ruh ul Amin ad-din
14. Shaykh Nazar Jalal ad din
13. Shaykh Amin ad-din Puyi
12. Shaykh Khalifa Jafar
11. Shaykh Nazar Ali
10. Shaykh Mahdi
9. Shaykh Eywaz Ali
8. Shaykh Nazar Ali
7. Haji Novruz Ali
6. Haji Imam Ali, b. 1750
5. Mirza Ali, b. 1792
4. Haji Nur Ali, b. 1819
3. Nazar Ali, b. 1873
2. Akbar, b. 1906
1. Ali Nazar, b. 1940
0. me, b. 1978

Steps 18-29 are strongly matched with Safavi lineage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_dynasty_family_tree).
Are they traced their ancestry to Ibrahim ibn Adham from Kufa, Iraq?

My BigY results (https://yfull.com/tree/E-Y37518/), YF02731.
Only Y12 Arabian matches from different subclades.
In recent times, newly found evidence has made the safavi claim to sayyid status old and somewhat solid.


I had a look at the official safavi genealogies. I would say the above genealogy is false. It has some points that line up, but there are also a lot of differences like the position of Hassan (no.28). However biggest of all. None of the official safavi genealogies claim descent from Ibrahim ibn Adham. Rather its Ibrahim bin Jafar. It seems that whoever drew up this genealogy was confused. Because It essentially poorly used the safavi genealogy to lay claim to Ibrahim ibn Adham. For example Muhammad bin Ibrahim (corresponding to number 31) is in the safavi genealogy. While the current representatives of Ibrahim ibn Adham line of descent, the noble paigah family claim descent from Abul fath Ishaq bin Ibrahim bin Adham. They currently live in South Asia.

I can't verify that the genealogy after Safa is accurate. If you feel certain that you are a safavi you could contact a sayyid genealogist who would know how many children safi-addin had and whether they had children. He/She would be able to sift out if you are who you say you are if they are a genealogist worth their salt.

I think that the above might have been an attempt to claim spiritual descent from ibrahim bin adham from the safavis. Because Shaykh Imad-addin "pir" asaf. Has pir in his name which is used for sufi masters. Theres also very high number of Shaykhs in the genealogy, from all the alid genealogies that I've seen. Only ba-alawis tend to have that high a number.


Dear Ahmed Ali,
As far as I know, Ibrahim ibn Adham was ascetic andmaybe has no family and descendants. Is it confirmed by his biography?
This shajara echoing with Safavi lineage seems to be speculation. Along with this, I have another version drawn up in 1848 (and later extended up to me in 2019):

20. Shaykh Agha Nizar Daylami, Alamut
19. Shaykh Yossi, Alamut
18. Shaykh Davud, Alamut
17. Shaykh Sulayman, Talysh
16. Shaykh Davud, Shamakha
15. Shaykh Jafar, Shamakha
14. Shaykh Qafar, Shamakha
13. Shaykh Jabbar, Gilazi
12. Shaykh khalifa Jafar, Gilazi
11. Shaykh Nazar Ali, Baku
10. Shaykh Mahdi, Baku
9. Shaykh Eyvaz Ali, Baku
8. Shaykh Nazar Ali, Baku
7. Haji Novruz Ali, Baku
6. Haji Imam Ali, b. 1750, Baku
5. Mirza Ali, b. 1792, Baku
4. Haji Nur Ali, b. 1819, Baku
3. Nazar Ali, b. 1873, Baku
2. Akbar, b. 1906, Baku
1. Ali Nazar, b. 1940, Baku
0. Me, b. 1978, Baku

Steps 0-12 are the same as in first version. Then steps 12-20 trace it to Agha Nizar Daylami, Ismailite dai. I tried to find any info about Ismaili medieval person but with no provable results. Maybe he can be associated with Nizari Quhistani (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizari_Quhistani) or someone else..?

Maybe you my frienda know something new about these persons

This seems more likely to be your genealogy. Especially as the safavis persecuted ismailis. You should contact the ismaili community themselves. If he was a Dai they would most likely have some sort of Hagiography of him and books of History etc. But as a warning Dais of Ismailis/Bohras/Qaramatians. Are generally of humble/obscure origins. Like the founder of the Qaramatian sect. Who was a merchant of some sort.

Farroukh
01-10-2021, 05:00 AM
Dear royaljoker,
Thanks for your opinion. I contacted several Ismaili history web-site admins with no results. They have no info about dai Agha Nizar Daylami. Sure, oral and written genealogies are speculations in many cases and that is why I tested my YDNA.
But my current BigY terminal SNP formed 2700 years before present and could not be associated with islamic genealogies. Typical YDNA matches are 12-markers Arabs from different subclades or without deeper tests, which is typical homoplasy.