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View Full Version : R-Y5587 IS FROM YAMNAYA & CORDED WARE?



Zulca
06-23-2020, 02:55 PM
THE ORIGIN OF R-Y5587

rms2
06-23-2020, 03:05 PM
THE ORIGIN OF R-Y5587

I don't believe any kind of Z2103 has been found in Corded Ware yet.

Zulca
06-26-2020, 02:51 PM
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-by250-northern-germanic/about/results

rms2
06-26-2020, 03:17 PM
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-by250-northern-germanic/about/results

Well, no ancient y-dna from Corded Ware has been any kind of Z2103 yet, so whoever wrote that stuff for that project is speculating or imagineering.

Zulca
06-26-2020, 05:52 PM
I didnt find too. maybe it a hypothesis

Zulca
06-27-2020, 04:14 PM
R1b1a1a2a2c1 found in Afanasyevo

Narasimhan2019
3016-2899 calBCE (433525 BP, PSUAMS-2350)
R1b1a1a2a2c1
Afanasievo
I5269
Tomsk_1950, inventory

rms2
06-27-2020, 04:24 PM
That's Z2109, right? And Afanasievo isn't Corded Ware.

Zulca
06-27-2020, 07:07 PM
yes, i found these sources:

Narasimhan2019
2866-2579 calBCE (412030 BP, PSUAMS-1957)
Afanasievo Karasuk
I3952
StPet51, collection 6612,

Narasimhan2019
3016-2899 calBCE (433525 BP, PSUAMS-2350)
R1b1a1a2a2c1
Afanasievo
I5269
Tomsk_1950, inventory

I5277
Tomsk_2099, inventory
Narasimhan2019
3264-2916 calBCE
Afanasievo

Mis
09-16-2020, 10:25 AM
Distance to: Mis_scaled (5587+)
0.07532928 Yamnaya_BGR:Bul4
0.14426515 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia:RISE550
0.14512406 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0357
0.14613835 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia:RISE547
0.14651385 RUS_Afanasievo:I3388
0.14680035 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia:RISE240
0.14726699 RUS_Afanasievo:I5273
0.14728525 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0439
0.14760147 Yamnaya_UKR:MJ06
0.14764009 RUS_Afanasievo:I11112
0.15001736 Yamnaya_RUS_Caucasus:ZO2002
0.15130205 RUS_Afanasievo1:I5269
0.15167661 RUS_Afanasievo:I2071
0.15262554 RUS_Afanasievo:I1829
0.15288868 RUS_Afanasievo:I5272
0.15375816 RUS_Afanasievo:I5270
0.15489879 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0443
0.15521035 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash:Yamnaya_Karagash ( Z2109-Europa)
0.15524766 Yamnaya_UKR:I2105
0.15571164 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0231
0.15685526 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0370
0.15883352 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I7489
0.15914870 RUS_Afanasievo:I11752
0.15945882 RUS_Afanasievo:I3952
0.15985312 RUS_Afanasievo:I3950

Distance to: Mis_scaled (5587+)
0.03781921 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5531 !!!
0.04118897 Bell_Beaker_CZE_o:I5025 !!
0.05113620 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I7249 !
0.05146829 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I5666
0.05197876 Bell_Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale:I1546
0.05250352 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I7281
0.05324754 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I7251
0.05376052 Bell_Beaker_England:I5382
0.05538293 Bell_Beaker_England:I5379
0.05564227 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I7212
0.05623767 Bell_Beaker_NLD:I5750
0.05667286 Bell_Beaker_England:I6679
0.05684331 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I7286
0.05719280 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:E09569
0.05728742 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5834
0.05740061 Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA:I3529
0.05766895 Bell_Beaker_POL:I6583
0.05799383 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I7213
0.05840335 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I7269
0.05948942 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I4888
0.05951693 Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA:I4178
0.06026150 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I4889
0.06133302 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5525
0.06150839 Bell_Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale:I0111
0.06161190 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5523

Lancer
09-16-2020, 03:45 PM
Mis,
I just sent you a PM but realized the results would be interesting to the whole forum since my line is of the other side of the two branched Y-CTS1450 tree.

Regards

Mis
09-16-2020, 04:23 PM
Distance to: Lancer_scaled
0.11738053 Yamnaya_BGR:Bul4
0.14423298 Yamnaya_UKR_Ozera_o:I1917
0.21686826 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0357
0.21762164 Yamnaya_RUS_Caucasus:ZO2002
0.21887385 RUS_Afanasievo:I3388
0.22014990 RUS_Afanasievo:I11112
0.22039731 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia:RISE240
0.22105813 RUS_Afanasievo:I5269
0.22158050 RUS_Afanasievo:I5273
0.22215557 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0439
0.22235410 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia:RISE550
0.22306608 RUS_Afanasievo:I5272
0.22317122 Yamnaya_UKR:MJ06
0.22481025 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia:RISE547
0.22569302 RUS_Afanasievo:I6713
0.22745682 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash:Yamnaya_Karagash
0.22806643 RUS_Afanasievo:I2071
0.22839764 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0443
0.22858252 Yamnaya_UKR:I2105
0.22870870 RUS_Afanasievo:I3952
0.23019972 RUS_Afanasievo:I10564
0.23057569 Yamnaya_RUS_Caucasus:RK1001
0.23077236 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0231
0.23177355 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia:RISE552
0.23212540 RUS_Afanasievo:I1829
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.06328569 Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA:I5015
0.07212209 Bell_Beaker_ITA:I1979
0.07512543 Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA:I2364
0.07764865 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5524
0.07844676 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:E09538
0.08031935 BGR_Beli_Breyag_EBA:Bul6
0.08081131 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5017
0.08524142 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I3594
0.08686122 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I4885
0.08702850 Bell_Beaker_CHE:I5759
0.09343091 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5520
0.09382653 Bell_Beaker_HUN:I7045
0.09598610 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I3590
0.09680571 Bell_Beaker_ITA:I2478
0.09945824 Bell_Beaker_HUN:I7044
0.10144569 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I6591
0.10397822 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I4945
0.10420902 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I7275
0.10535132 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I4886
0.10616306 Bell_Beaker_POL:I6582
0.10677143 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5529
0.10849752 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I4896
0.11310198 Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I6539
0.11321775 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I3588
0.11417898 Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA:I3529

Mis
09-16-2020, 04:42 PM
Tools
https://www.google.com/search?q=g25+dna&rlz=1C1CHBD_plPL914PL914&oq=&aqs=chrome.0.35i39l8.3295704j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

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Mis
09-18-2020, 04:50 AM
Distance to: Mis_scaled (Y5587+)
0.06045614 Corded_Ware_CHE:MX198
0.06153004 Corded_Ware_CHE:MX189
0.06169049 Corded_Ware_CHE:MX191
0.06229570 Corded_Ware_CHE:MX190
0.06287528 Corded_Ware_CHE:MX195
0.06375029 Corded_Ware_CHE:MX192
0.06449174 Corded_Ware_POL:N49
0.06464726 Corded_Ware_CHE:MX188
0.06495323 Corded_Ware_POL:N47
0.06600353 Corded_Ware_CZE:I6696
0.06996995 Corded_Ware_CHE:MX196
0.07001854 Corded_Ware_CZE:I6695
0.07139001 Corded_Ware_CHE:MX199
0.07237730 Corded_Ware_Proto-Unetice_POL:RISE431
0.07238338 Corded_Ware_CHE:MX197
0.07403089 Corded_Ware_DEU:I1532
0.07523176 Corded_Ware_POL:N45
0.07544678 Corded_Ware_Baltic:Kunila2
0.07642058 Corded_Ware_CHE:MX194
0.07661657 Corded_Ware_CZE:I7279
0.07718149 Corded_Ware_DEU_o:I1540
0.07874458 Corded_Ware_DEU:I1539
0.08356045 Corded_Ware_Baltic:Plinkaigalis241
0.08593510 Corded_Ware_CZE:I7208
0.08626084 Corded_Ware_POL:N44d_Ware_CHE:MX197

Lancer
09-18-2020, 06:48 PM
Distance to: Lancer_scaled
0.11738053 Yamnaya_BGR:Bul4
0.14423298 Yamnaya_UKR_Ozera_o:I1917
0.21686826 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0357
0.21762164 Yamnaya_RUS_Caucasus:ZO2002
0.21887385 RUS_Afanasievo:I3388
0.22014990 RUS_Afanasievo:I11112
0.22039731 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia:RISE240
0.22105813 RUS_Afanasievo:I5269
0.22158050 RUS_Afanasievo:I5273
0.22215557 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0439
0.22235410 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia:RISE550
0.22306608 RUS_Afanasievo:I5272
0.22317122 Yamnaya_UKR:MJ06
0.22481025 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia:RISE547
0.22569302 RUS_Afanasievo:I6713
0.22745682 Yamnaya_KAZ_Karagash:Yamnaya_Karagash
0.22806643 RUS_Afanasievo:I2071
0.22839764 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0443
0.22858252 Yamnaya_UKR:I2105
0.22870870 RUS_Afanasievo:I3952
0.23019972 RUS_Afanasievo:I10564
0.23057569 Yamnaya_RUS_Caucasus:RK1001
0.23077236 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara:I0231
0.23177355 Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia:RISE552
0.23212540 RUS_Afanasievo:I1829
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.06328569 Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA:I5015
0.07212209 Bell_Beaker_ITA:I1979
0.07512543 Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA:I2364
0.07764865 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5524
0.07844676 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:E09538
0.08031935 BGR_Beli_Breyag_EBA:Bul6
0.08081131 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5017
0.08524142 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I3594
0.08686122 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I4885
0.08702850 Bell_Beaker_CHE:I5759
0.09343091 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5520
0.09382653 Bell_Beaker_HUN:I7045
0.09598610 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I3590
0.09680571 Bell_Beaker_ITA:I2478
0.09945824 Bell_Beaker_HUN:I7044
0.10144569 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I6591
0.10397822 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I4945
0.10420902 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I7275
0.10535132 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I4886
0.10616306 Bell_Beaker_POL:I6582
0.10677143 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I5529
0.10849752 Bell_Beaker_CZE:I4896
0.11310198 Bell_Beaker_Iberia:I6539
0.11321775 Bell_Beaker_Bavaria:I3588
0.11417898 Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA:I3529

Thanks!
So these are definitively my ancient source cultures; and the opposite side of the CTS-1450 Branch with different source cultures from your y5587 side? So what is that telling us?
And do you know what ADC and ADCx2 mean in PCA plotting?

Mis
09-18-2020, 07:00 PM
In these cultures, Bell_Beake, Yamnaya, Afanasievo you have your ancestors. However, you are closer to Bell_Beake.

Kurdistani
10-19-2020, 01:23 AM
Distance to: Sezar_scaled
0.17584565 Corded_Ware_CHE
0.17811825 Corded_Ware_CZE
0.18445149 Corded_Ware_Proto-Unetice_POL
0.18961593 Corded_Ware_DEU
0.19725450 Corded_Ware_POL
0.20081424 Corded_Ware_Baltic
0.20921899 Corded_Ware_Baltic_early
0.21161074 Corded_Ware_DEU_o
0.21408620 Corded_Ware_POL_early
0.25095560 Corded_Ware_CHE_o

Where is CHE ? and CZE ?

ADW_1981
10-19-2020, 02:25 AM
Distance to: Sezar_scaled
0.17584565 Corded_Ware_CHE
0.17811825 Corded_Ware_CZE
0.18445149 Corded_Ware_Proto-Unetice_POL
0.18961593 Corded_Ware_DEU
0.19725450 Corded_Ware_POL
0.20081424 Corded_Ware_Baltic
0.20921899 Corded_Ware_Baltic_early
0.21161074 Corded_Ware_DEU_o
0.21408620 Corded_Ware_POL_early
0.25095560 Corded_Ware_CHE_o

Where is CHE ? and CZE ?

Should be Switzerland and Czechia respectively.

Mis
10-19-2020, 10:36 AM
/---------------------/

Lancer
10-19-2020, 06:17 PM
:P:P:P:P:P:P

Lancer
10-19-2020, 06:34 PM
CHARTS OF R1b-Z2103 and R1b-Z251