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View Full Version : R-Z2123 AKA SRUBNAYA ORIGIN OF THE HUNGARIAN ÁRPÁD (TURUL) DINASTY



Zulca
06-23-2020, 03:52 PM
http://epa.oszk.hu/03100/03120/00077/pdf/EPA03120_anthropologiai_kozlemenyek_2018_011-029.pdf

Coldmountains
06-28-2020, 09:33 PM
Z2123 is very widespread and exists from England to China and from the Volga region to India. Z2123 itself is around 4000-5000 years old, so it probably existed in various Indo-Iranian subgroups already in the Late Bronze Age.

The earliest Z2123 found yet seems to be from Sintashta and Potapovka. In the MLBA Steppe it was quite frequent including Srubnaya but it seems Z2125>S23592 very much became dominant among later Saka and Huns with some Z2123 occasionaly popping up in the Iron Age/Historical era steppe. But i have the feeling that future sampled groups of Scythians in Ukraine and Russia will show more of it and this groups could be ancestral to Arpad Z2123.


Sintashta Russia Stepnoe VII [RISE392] M 2126-1896 BC R1a1a1b S224; Tagankin reads R1a1a1b2a2a (Z2123) + downstream SNP Y877+, Y939- J2b1a2a

Potapovka, Russia, 2200-1900 BC I0419, R1a1a1b2a2a

Srubnaya Russia Spiridonovka II, Samara River, Samara [I0430/SVP 39] M 1850-1600 BC R1a1a1b2a2a Z2123 H3g

Early Andronovo,Kazakhstan, I3770, 2132-1940 calBCE Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a2a

Coldmountains
06-29-2020, 07:58 AM
Interestingly Z2123 is unlike Z2125>S23592 widespread in Iran, Kurdistan and India (especially South India). It very much has a pan-Indo-Iranian distribution. This could be related to some Saka incursions but i rather suspect that some of it arrived with earliest Indo-Iranians in South Eurasia. If it arrived with Saka i would also expect S23592 in South Eurasia but untill yet it was not found in India, Iran or Kurdistan.

Zulca
07-13-2020, 01:23 PM
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-0683-z

Zulca
07-13-2020, 01:27 PM
Árpáds z2123 is found in bactria 4500 years ago , next in Bashkiria. The moving from Bashkiria is 2000 years ago maybe as sarmatians or hunno-sarmatians
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-0683-z

Coldmountains
07-13-2020, 01:45 PM
Árpáds z2123 is found in bactria 4500 years ago , next in Bashkiria. The moving from Bashkiria is 2000 years ago maybe as sarmatians or hunno-sarmatians
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-0683-z

well there was no Z2123 or Z93 in 2500 B.C near Bactria. The migration of Z93 into Central Asia just started around 2000 B.C.

The basal clades to Arpad Z2123 in North Afghanistan are not really a prove for Arpad getting his line from South Central Asia. At first it is a rare line among Tajiks and Uzbeks and second we don't know how it arrived there. Only ancient dna can really prove that. Maybe it only recently arrived with Turks. The absence of this clade among Pashtuns is pointing to that.

South Central Asian R-Y2632 diverged from Arpad Y2632 almost 4000 year ago so we don't really now how it ethnically is related to Bashkir/Arpad Y2632

Zulca
07-14-2020, 02:28 PM
exactly: R1a1a1b2a2a1c3a3b

parasar
07-14-2020, 05:25 PM
Árpáds z2123 is found in bactria 4500 years ago , next in Bashkiria. The moving from Bashkiria is 2000 years ago maybe as sarmatians or hunno-sarmatians
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-0683-z

The Hungarian annals talk about Persia (Persida) or maybe the Indus (terram Evilath) as the place of orgin for the Hunor Magor.
Chronica Hungarorum https://books.google.com/books?id=Ubgz-ZFowd4C&pg=PA55

Afshar
07-14-2020, 06:40 PM
They dropped a lot of samples https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y2632/