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akash
06-28-2020, 11:50 PM
Did East Africans contribute to genes in India? or Did ancient Indians come to East Africa?

Now we know for sure there were east african empires in India, they must have contributed to genes there

NetNomad
06-29-2020, 12:10 PM
Extremely minimially.

There was more of an impact in Pakistan rather than India.

drobbah
06-29-2020, 12:19 PM
When you say East Africa, do you mean the Swahili coast or the Horn of Africa (Ethiopia,Somaliland,Eritrea and Djibouti)? I don't think the Horn had any impact on South Asia and neither did they have genetic impact on us but there are thousands of people with Bantu admixture in South Asia today and there are admixed Arab/Indian & Bantu communities in the Swahili coast (including Somalia)

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
06-29-2020, 02:41 PM
Did East Africans contribute to genes in India? or Did ancient Indians come to East Africa?

Now we know for sure there some east african empires in India, they must have contributed to genes there

Some of the Indians living in the Swahili coast in places like Mombasa, Zanzibar and Lamu have recent Swahili & Bajuni admixture like one grandparent, great grand-parent or parent being Swahili.

In Mombasa we call a person of Swahili (Bantu) & Indian admixture Mchotara which is the same as saying Mulatto.

As for East African admixture in India i dont know...

akash
06-29-2020, 03:03 PM
Extremely minimially.

There was more of an impact in Pakistan rather than India.

forgot Malik Ambar? the greatest African King of India. His empire stretched much of Central and Western India.

Deftextra
06-29-2020, 03:06 PM
From the results I have seen, south Asian admixture is wide spread among small coastal communities of south-east African, but seems to be limited to only coastal towns which have a long cosmopolitan history of trade.

NetNomad
06-29-2020, 04:27 PM
forgot Malik Ambar? the greatest African King of India. His empire stretched much of Central and Western India.

In East Africa, it is mainly Swahili areas that have some South Asian admixture. Also, the Benadiri population in Somalia and some Hararis in a city in Ethiopia. But it is very localized, not widespread.

In South Asia, it is mainly along Pakistan's southern coast who have African admixture and there are also the Siddis in India, but also here it is very localized and not spread throughout South Asia.

drobbah
06-29-2020, 04:54 PM
forgot Malik Ambar? the greatest African King of India. His empire stretched much of Central and Western India.
Apparently Malik Ambar was a Cushitic Oromo slave that was probably captured by neighboring Somali clans and sold off to Horner Islamic Sultanates and after a long journey and living in the Middle East arrived in India afterwards climbing his way to power in the Deccan region.His case wasn't the norm as not many pagan Horners were shipped abroad but were used domestically in cities or among nomadic clans.The vast majority of modern siddis or the equivalent in Pakistan are of Bantu origins unlike Malik Ambar

akash
06-29-2020, 05:08 PM
Apparently Malik Ambar was a Cushitic Oromo slave that was probably captured by neighboring Somali clans and sold off to Horner Islamic Sultanates and after a long journey and living in the Middle East arrived in India afterwards climbing his way to power in the Deccan region.His case wasn't the norm as not many pagan Horners were shipped abroad but were used domestically in cities or among nomadic clans.The vast majority of modern siddis or the equivalent in Pakistan are of Bantu origins unlike Malik Ambar

He has great respect in India, even in our history books his name is always there as a great leader and often quoted in great leadership qualities

I feel sorry for him that he was sold by his own parents, his parents would have never imagined he would become a king in a different country


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beXIBdLvvPc

akash
06-29-2020, 05:11 PM
Also there were several African leaders in India, though Malik Ambar was the most famous

Kulin
06-29-2020, 08:35 PM
Apparently Malik Ambar was a Cushitic Oromo slave that was probably captured by neighboring Somali clans and sold off to Horner Islamic Sultanates and after a long journey and living in the Middle East arrived in India afterwards climbing his way to power in the Deccan region.His case wasn't the norm as not many pagan Horners were shipped abroad but were used domestically in cities or among nomadic clans.The vast majority of modern siddis or the equivalent in Pakistan are of Bantu origins unlike Malik Ambar

The Bengal Sultanate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_Sultanate) employed "Habshi" military-slaves/palace guards, after the practice of Turkic slave-soldiers ended. In the year of 1487, one of them managed to usurp the throne, and ultimately 4 different Habshi-origin Shahs ruled the kingdom until 1494.

The kingdom did have connections to the wider Muslim world, and are said to have been gifted exotic animals such as giraffes by principalities there. These giraffes were interestingly later gifted to China during Zheng He's treasure fleet visit to Bengal. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Tribute_Giraffe_with_Attendant.jpg/320px-Tribute_Giraffe_with_Attendant.jpg It isn't really certain if these people were Habesha/Horner, especially if we assume that these men were brought from the swahili coast (as the giraffes probably were). Cushitic/Ethio-semitic people(s) were not traditionally enslaved and Bantus provided the bulk of medieval-era slaves from Africa to the Islamic world.

akash
06-29-2020, 09:43 PM
The Bengal Sultanate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_Sultanate) employed "Habshi" military-slaves/palace guards, after the practice of Turkic slave-soldiers ended. In the year of 1487, one of them managed to usurp the throne, and ultimately 4 different Habshi-origin Shahs ruled the kingdom until 1494.

The kingdom did have connections to the wider Muslim world, and are said to have been gifted exotic animals such as giraffes by principalities there. These giraffes were interestingly later gifted to China during Zheng He's treasure fleet visit to Bengal. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Tribute_Giraffe_with_Attendant.jpg/320px-Tribute_Giraffe_with_Attendant.jpg It isn't really certain if these people were Habesha/Horner, especially if we assume that these men were brought from the swahili coast (as the giraffes probably were). Cushitic/Ethio-semitic people(s) were not traditionally enslaved and Bantus provided the bulk of medieval-era slaves from Africa to the Islamic world.

The Africans who ruled India, were their armies made up local Indians or a mix of Indians and Africans? In the case of Malik Ambar, definitely Indians must have been in his army, since they were fighting the Mughals, Western and Central parts of India always despised Mughals, so locals must have joined Malik Ambar's army against Mughals

drobbah
06-30-2020, 02:55 AM
The Bengal Sultanate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_Sultanate) employed "Habshi" military-slaves/palace guards, after the practice of Turkic slave-soldiers ended. In the year of 1487, one of them managed to usurp the throne, and ultimately 4 different Habshi-origin Shahs ruled the kingdom until 1494.

The kingdom did have connections to the wider Muslim world, and are said to have been gifted exotic animals such as giraffes by principalities there. These giraffes were interestingly later gifted to China during Zheng He's treasure fleet visit to Bengal. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Tribute_Giraffe_with_Attendant.jpg/320px-Tribute_Giraffe_with_Attendant.jpg It isn't really certain if these people were Habesha/Horner, especially if we assume that these men were brought from the swahili coast (as the giraffes probably were). Cushitic/Ethio-semitic people(s) were not traditionally enslaved and Bantus provided the bulk of medieval-era slaves from Africa to the Islamic world.
The Ottomans also had East African eunuchs who wielded great power (although never becoming Sultan like in the Bengal) and they also called these eunuchs Habeşi.From what I read they tended to be non-Cushitic/Semitic slaves from the Horn and the Sudan but I wouldn't be surprised if a few actual Habesha slaves made it to Turkey or modern day Bangladesh.The connections between the Horn and sub-continent for example is very real,the only reason why a monumental work like the Futuh Al Habasha by the Yemeni chronicler who followed Imam Ahmed in his Jihad, survived was because it found it's way to Gujurat.The amount of Cushitic/Semitic slaves being exported probably decreased after the 16th century due to both muslim and Orthodox powers weakened from infighting and by the grear migrations of the Pagan (traditional Cushitic religion) militaristic Oromos from the south.SE Africa was a much more favourable area for the Arabs,Somalis and their local allies to continue to supply the Islamic world with slaves.You can find many of their modern descendants in Saudi Arabia,Yemen,and other Persian Gulf nations.

Fishermansfriend
06-30-2020, 10:57 AM
Habshi was a generic term used to lazily describe ALL Africans (including somali's) at this time.
In the context of India, it was used interchangeably with the specific term "Siddi" to describe the Bantu and local indian derived coastal populations.

Just to clear up any misconceptions:

Recent advances in genetic analyses have helped shed some light on the ethnogenesis of the Siddi. Genetic genealogy, although a novel tool that uses the genes of modern populations to trace their ethnic and geographic origins, has also helped clarify the possible background of the modern Siddi.

Y DNA

A Y-chromosome study by Shah et al. (2011) tested Siddi individuals in India for paternal lineages. The authors observed the E1b1a1-M2 haplogroup, which is frequent among Bantu peoples, in about 42% and 34% of Siddis from Karnataka and Gujarat, respectively. Around 14% of Siddis from Karnataka and 35% of Siddis from Gujarat also belonged to the Sub-Saharan B-M60. The remaining Siddis had Indian associated or Near Eastern-linked clades, including haplogroups P, H, R1a-M17, J2 and L-M20.

Thangaraj (2009) observed similar, mainly Bantu-linked paternal affinities amongst the Siddi.

Qamar et al. (2002) analysed Makrani Siddis in Pakistan and found that they instead predominantly carried Indian-associated or Near Eastern-linked haplogroups. R1a1a-M17 (30.30%), J2 (18.18%) and R2 (18.18%) were their most common male lineages. Only around 12% carried Africa-derived clades, which mainly consisted of the archaic haplogroup B-M60, of which they bore the highest frequency of any Pakistani population Underhill et al. (2009) likewise detected a relatively high frequency of R1a1a-M17 (25%) subclade among Makrani Siddis.

mtDNA

According to an mtDNA study by Shah et al. (2011), the maternal ancestry of the Siddi consists of a mixture of Bantu-associated haplogroups and Indian-associated haplogroups, reflecting substantial female gene flow from neighbouring Indian populations. About 53% of the Siddis from Gujarat and 24% of the Siddis from Karnataka belonged to various Bantu-derived macro-haplogroup L subclades. The latter mainly consisted of L0 and L2a sublineages associated with Bantu women. The remainder possessed Indian-specific subclades of the Eurasian haplogroups M and N, which points to recent admixture with autochthonous Indian groups.

Autosomal DNA

Narang et al. (2011) examined the autosomal DNA of Siddis in India. According to the researchers, about 58% of the Siddis' ancestry is derived from Bantu peoples. The remainder is associated with local Indo-European-speaking North and Northwest Indian populations, due to recent admixture events.

Similarly, Shah et al. (2011) observed that Siddis in Gujarat derive 66.90%70.50% of their ancestry from Bantu forebears, while the Siddis in Karnataka possess 64.80%74.40% such Southeast African ancestry. The remaining autosomal DNA components in the studied Siddi were mainly associated with local South Asian populations. According to the authors, gene flow between the Siddis' Bantu ancestors and local Indian populations was also largely unidirectional. They estimate this admixture episode's time of occurrence at within the past 200 years or eight generations.

Samand
11-27-2020, 11:21 PM
Kings and Generals has an excellent video on Malik Ambar too. Not much is taught about him Central/South Indian schools.

Mirix
12-05-2020, 10:50 AM
The Ottomans also had East African eunuchs who wielded great power (although never becoming Sultan like in the Bengal) and they also called these eunuchs Habeşi.From what I read they tended to be non-Cushitic/Semitic slaves from the Horn and the Sudan but I wouldn't be surprised if a few actual Habesha slaves made it to Turkey or modern day Bangladesh.The connections between the Horn and sub-continent for example is very real,the only reason why a monumental work like the Futuh Al Habasha by the Yemeni chronicler who followed Imam Ahmed in his Jihad, survived was because it found it's way to Gujurat. The amount of Cushitic/Semitic slaves being exported probably decreased after the 16th century due to both muslim and Orthodox powers weakened from infighting and by the grear migrations of the Pagan (traditional Cushitic religion) militaristic Oromos from the south.SE Africa was a much more favourable area for the Arabs,Somalis and their local allies to continue to supply the Islamic world with slaves.You can find many of their modern descendants in Saudi Arabia,Yemen,and other Persian Gulf nations.


The Habshis who rose to such prominence in Gujarat in 16th century were for the most part the prisoners or sons of the prisoners captured during the Muhammadan invasion of Abyssinia by Imam Ahmad ''Gran'' in A.D.1527, and they were known by the generic name of Rumikhanis. These captives were handed over by the Imam to Amir Salman in Kamaran, who selected the most promising and put the rest to death. The Habshis who were spared, were treated with much Kindness, and recieved a thorough training in arms and in letters. They however, had the status of slaves and were forced to embrace Islam


According to: An Arabic history of Gujarat (https://archive.org/details/arabichistoryofg00ulug)