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Caius Agrippa
07-07-2020, 09:35 PM
How common are I1 lineages in Iberia and how did they arrived there? Are they more common in Spain or Portugal?

jkotl0327
07-07-2020, 09:47 PM
38337
Source: Eupedia

Their sources:
38338

Caius Agrippa
07-07-2020, 09:53 PM
38337
Source: Eupedia

Their sources:
38338

Seem to be slightly more common in West Iberia than elsewhere. Possible Germanic influence perhaps?

spruithean
07-07-2020, 10:37 PM
Seem to be slightly more common in West Iberia than elsewhere. Possible Germanic influence perhaps?

Probably Germanic influence to some degree, likely a mixture of Migration Period and Medieval Period (Flemish, etc).

Caius Agrippa
07-07-2020, 10:44 PM
Probably Germanic influence to some degree, likely a mixture of Migration Period and Medieval Period (Flemish, etc).

The only way to know for sure is through Big Y or similar tests, right? To see the matches and lineages. I ask because one of my lines is from Azores and this lineage has been proven to carry I1 haplogroup through the test of a relative. Since Azores received some Flemish colonists I'm not sure if the source is more recent Flemish (400-500 years) or very old Germanic (1500 years).

spruithean
07-07-2020, 11:04 PM
The only way to know for sure is through Big Y or similar tests, right? To see the matches and lineages. I ask because one of my lines is from Azores and this lineage has been proven to carry I1 haplogroup through the test of a relative. Since Azores received some Flemish colonists I'm not sure if the source is more recent Flemish (400-500 years) or very old Germanic (1500 years).

Here (https://phylogeographer.com/two-subclades-of-i1-z141-with-potential-to-be-viking-migrants-to-the-azores/) is an interesting read in regards to I1 in the Azores, at least the I-Z140 subclade.

jkotl0327
07-08-2020, 12:04 AM
Seem to be slightly more common in West Iberia than elsewhere. Possible Germanic influence perhaps?

Aragon, Catalonia, Valencia. It is not just W. Iberia.

BAL0051, Late Upper Paleolithic(Azilian?), 11,384–9,263 Cal BCE has YDNA I1. It is probably mostly from Viking/Germanic invasion since I think that is why most southern european I1s are in southern europe, but maybe some of it is local. This sample is from NE Spain.

Looks like mostly I2 and some unidentified I before 2000 BC and R after 2000 BC. Anyway, I'm I2c2 so I don't know much about I1.

Ruderico
07-08-2020, 12:17 PM
I agree it correlates well with Germanic settling during the migration period, West and East Iberia seem to have both higher Germanic/Scandinavian-related haplogroups and genetic drift. I'd say it's hardly a coincidence even if correlation does not imply causation, although in the case of East Iberia it could also be related with their stronger connections with France, including during the early periods of the Reconquista and the Marca Hispanica after the 800s created by Charlemagne.

artemv
07-08-2020, 01:28 PM
Numbers are from FTDNA Y-tree:
Spain - total 2193, I1 - 108, 4,9%
Portugal - total 819, I1 - 41, 5%

I guess bug cities are overrepresented here, but that's the stats of Spanish/Portuguese FTDNA clients.

Token
07-08-2020, 01:51 PM
Numbers are from FTDNA Y-tree:
Spain - total 2193, I1 - 108, 4,9%
Portugal - total 819, I1 - 41, 5%

I guess bug cities are overrepresented here, but that's the stats of Spanish/Portuguese FTDNA clients.

Makes more sense. It would be weird if Iberia had less I1 than Macedonia, as the Eupedia figures suggests.

deadly77
07-08-2020, 08:38 PM
Aragon, Catalonia, Valencia. It is not just W. Iberia.

BAL0051, Late Upper Paleolithic(Azilian?), 11,384–9,263 Cal BCE has YDNA I1. It is probably mostly from Viking/Germanic invasion since I think that is why most southern european I1s are in southern europe, but maybe some of it is local. This sample is from NE Spain.

Looks like mostly I2 and some unidentified I before 2000 BC and R after 2000 BC. Anyway, I'm I2c2 so I don't know much about I1.

For BAL0051, it depends on how you define I1. I prefer to call this sample pre-I1 because he's positive for 13 of the SNPs that define the I1 haplogroup and negative for 20 of the SNPs that define I1 (the rest are unknown as they are no call). I think it's more likely that BAL0051 represents an extinct Y-DNA lineage with no modern day descendants and is an offshoot that shares a common ancestor with modern day I1 folks after the split away from I2, but BAL0051 isn't an ancestor of modern I1.

There are two other ancient samples that are I1 related from Iberia that I'm aware of, and both come from the Olade et al 2019 paper on the Iberian peninsula - one is Car1 - this is also a pre-I1 from a little further South in Cueva de la Carigüela (Piñar, Granada, Andalusia, Spain). Again, I'd call this "pre-I1" as Car1/I0899 is derived for 19 of the SNPs that define I1 and ancestral for 35 of the SNPs that define I1. The dating of this sample at 9700–5500 BCE prior to the TMRCA of modern I1 descendants also makes pre-I1 more likely than full I1 (same with BAL0051).

The other one is I12033 at a necropolis to the North of the Pla de l’Horta villa is located in Sarrià de Ter, around 4km from the city of Girona. The grave goods and the typology of the tombs point to a Visigothic origin of the individuals. 9 of the 58 individuals from this site (5 males, 4 females) were sampled for DNA analysis. Y-DNA haplogroups reported are BT (low coverage), E1b1b1a1b1a, R1b1a1a2a1, J2a and I so they were quite a mixture of haplogroups. The sample I12033 was listed as haplogroup I in the paper, but in looking in the BAM file I've found that I12033 was positive for three of the SNPs that definite I1. It's a very low coverage sample (all the other I1 SNPs are no call) but the dating to to 500-600 CE based on archaeological context and the positive results, I've tentatively put this as I1.

See the link in my signature below for the map of all the known I1 ancient samples (at least the ones I'm aware of).