PDA

View Full Version : Greek Genoplot Cluster.



dosas
07-15-2020, 11:37 AM
I am messing around with the feature. Here's what the 2D looks like:

https://i.ibb.co/F4pvLzy/screencapture-genoplot-com-pca-1594812771914-1.png

lacreme
07-30-2020, 04:59 PM
Hi Dosas! which tests would you suggest that I should run for my Greek friend ? I have purchased a subscription and I have 3000 credits available.
btw I made his sample public and he can be found on the list as "lacreme".
(still haven't uploaded his raw data though)

dosas
07-30-2020, 05:35 PM
Hi Dosas! which tests would you suggest that I should run for my Greek friend ?

I can't seem to be able to find him on the list, make a thread with his G25 co-ordinates. There's quite a few Greek posters on this board and we'll put him through the wringer (j/k).

lacreme
07-30-2020, 06:41 PM
,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Chris_scaled,0.114961,0.146236,-0.007165,-0.030685,0.012002,-0.008646,0.003055,0.000923,-0.003068,0.016583,0.00065,0.006145,-0.002973,0.000413,-0.013301,0.001989,0.005998,0.000887,0.001257,-0.004377,-0.011979,-0.005688,-0.00419,0.00253,-0.004311

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Chris,0.0101,0.0144,-0.0019,-0.0095,0.0039,-0.0031,0.0013,0.0004,-0.0015,0.0091,0.0004,0.0041,-0.002,0.0003,-0.0098,0.0015,0.0046,0.0007,0.001,-0.0035,-0.0096,-0.0046,-0.0034,0.0021,-0.0036

dosas
07-30-2020, 06:52 PM
Onur's med calc:



Target: Chris_scaled
Distance: 2.2876% / 0.02287596
53.8 TUR_Barcin_N
29.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
9.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.6 Levant_PPNB
1.0 GEO_CHG

supreme's K64 oracles:

Mixed OraclesDistance96% Greek Izmir + 4% Iranian Mazandarani1.4941
97.6% Greek Izmir + 2.4% Punjabi Jatt1.4956
95.2% Greek Izmir + 4.8% Iranian Zoroastrian1.4967
97.8% Greek Izmir + 2.2% Khatri1.5009
97.6% Greek Izmir + 2.4% Kamboj1.5036
97.8% Greek Izmir + 2.2% Sindhi1.5043
97.6% Greek Izmir + 2.4% Pashtun1.5057
97.4% Greek Izmir + 2.6% Uthmankhel1.506
97.6% Greek Izmir + 2.4% Yusufzai1.5061
98% Greek Izmir + 2% Kashmiri Pandit1.5114

4 Way OraclesDistance25% Greek Izmir + 25% Greek Izmir + 25% Greek Crete + 25% Greek Thessaly1.5083
25% Albanian + 25% Italian Bergamo + 25% Assyrian + 25% Greek Peloponnese1.5355
25% Albanian + 25% Italian Bergamo + 25% Assyrian + 25% Greek Izmir1.5359
25% Greek Izmir + 25% Greek Izmir + 25% Greek Crete + 25% Italian Umbria1.5401
25% Albanian + 25% Italian Piedmont + 25% Assyrian + 25% Greek Peloponnese1.5509
25% Greek Thessaly + 25% Italian Bergamo + 25% Assyrian + 25% Greek Peloponnese1.5571
25% Greek Peloponnese + 25% Greek Peloponnese + 25% Italian Bergamo + 25% Assyrian1.5626
25% Greek Izmir + 25% Greek Crete + 25% Greek Thessaly + 25% Greek Peloponnese1.5761
25% Greek Izmir + 25% Greek Crete + 25% Italian Umbria + 25% Greek Peloponnese1.5798
25% Greek Thessaly + 25% Italian Bergamo + 25% Assyrian + 25% Greek Izmir1.5837

SampleDistanceGreek Izmir1.5905
Greek Peloponnese2.1896
Italian Apulia2.305
Italian Basilicata2.3397
Italian Molise2.3545
Greek Crete2.7168
Italian Calabria2.8301
Italian Umbria2.8992
Italian Lazio2.9581
Italian Marche3.0081


Johny's Mycenean-connection calc:

Sample:dosas1312 ► chris lacreme friend
Fit:2.2186
Results:Iberia Northeast Empuries269.5
RUS Catacomb17.5
Ikiztepe LC6.5
Levant Baqah BA6.5


Mainlander + Islander mix, I assume?

lacreme
07-30-2020, 08:14 PM
Onur's med calc:



Target: Chris_scaled
Distance: 2.2876% / 0.02287596
53.8 TUR_Barcin_N
29.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
9.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.6 Levant_PPNB
1.0 GEO_CHG

supreme's K64 oracles:

Mixed OraclesDistance96% Greek Izmir + 4% Iranian Mazandarani1.4941
97.6% Greek Izmir + 2.4% Punjabi Jatt1.4956
95.2% Greek Izmir + 4.8% Iranian Zoroastrian1.4967
97.8% Greek Izmir + 2.2% Khatri1.5009
97.6% Greek Izmir + 2.4% Kamboj1.5036
97.8% Greek Izmir + 2.2% Sindhi1.5043
97.6% Greek Izmir + 2.4% Pashtun1.5057
97.4% Greek Izmir + 2.6% Uthmankhel1.506
97.6% Greek Izmir + 2.4% Yusufzai1.5061
98% Greek Izmir + 2% Kashmiri Pandit1.5114

4 Way OraclesDistance25% Greek Izmir + 25% Greek Izmir + 25% Greek Crete + 25% Greek Thessaly1.5083
25% Albanian + 25% Italian Bergamo + 25% Assyrian + 25% Greek Peloponnese1.5355
25% Albanian + 25% Italian Bergamo + 25% Assyrian + 25% Greek Izmir1.5359
25% Greek Izmir + 25% Greek Izmir + 25% Greek Crete + 25% Italian Umbria1.5401
25% Albanian + 25% Italian Piedmont + 25% Assyrian + 25% Greek Peloponnese1.5509
25% Greek Thessaly + 25% Italian Bergamo + 25% Assyrian + 25% Greek Peloponnese1.5571
25% Greek Peloponnese + 25% Greek Peloponnese + 25% Italian Bergamo + 25% Assyrian1.5626
25% Greek Izmir + 25% Greek Crete + 25% Greek Thessaly + 25% Greek Peloponnese1.5761
25% Greek Izmir + 25% Greek Crete + 25% Italian Umbria + 25% Greek Peloponnese1.5798
25% Greek Thessaly + 25% Italian Bergamo + 25% Assyrian + 25% Greek Izmir1.5837

SampleDistanceGreek Izmir1.5905
Greek Peloponnese2.1896
Italian Apulia2.305
Italian Basilicata2.3397
Italian Molise2.3545
Greek Crete2.7168
Italian Calabria2.8301
Italian Umbria2.8992
Italian Lazio2.9581
Italian Marche3.0081


Johny's Mycenean-connection calc:

Sample:dosas1312 ► chris lacreme friend
Fit:2.2186
Results:Iberia Northeast Empuries269.5
RUS Catacomb17.5
Ikiztepe LC6.5
Levant Baqah BA6.5


Mainlander + Islander mix, I assume?

Thanks!

Exactly as you assume.

Anything else of interest that I can run now that you've added him on the list ? Already tried the g25 3d pca for ancient and for modern samples but on chrome it has extremely erratic performance and couldn't use it properly.

Archetype0ne
07-31-2020, 02:42 AM
Greetings Dosas, hope all is well.

I remember someone ran my g25 coordiantes in another Greek PCA thread on anthrogenica, it might have been you actually. From what I recall I was plotting relatively close with your dad.
Any chance you can add me to the PCA? Or is this exclusively for Greeks?

Here are my G25 coordinates:

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
AC_scaled,0.118376,0.135065,0.023381,-0.01615,0.032314,-0.011992,0,0.000231,0.00225,0.012757,0.001461,0.00 1049,-0.004311,0.003578,-0.016558,0.010077,0.022035,-0.004561,0.002514,-0.00025,-0.002371,0.002226,0.008627,0.002289,-0.000838

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
AC,0.0104,0.0133,0.0062,-0.005,0.0105,-0.0043,0,0.0001,0.0011,0.007,0.0009,0.0007,-0.0029,0.0026,-0.0122,0.0076,0.0169,-0.0036,0.002,-0.0002,-0.0019,0.0018,0.007,0.0019,-0.0007



Also I suspect I either have some old Greek connection on the side of my mom or a bunch of my moms family immigrated to Greece in the last 200-300 years, since a sizable proportion of my FTDNA autosomal matches/cousins have Greek names. I guess Skrapar is relatively close to the Greek Northern border so I would not be surprised, but I doubt there is any way to test any of these two hypotheses.

PS: Is it me or Greek Thessaly and Albanians have the same color coding on that PCA?

dosas
07-31-2020, 06:43 AM
Greetings Dosas, hope all is well.



Hey,

we need to collectively bug Michalis Moriopoulos to make a super-PCA with the members here who are interested, the above PCA is basically Genoplot's interation of Global 25 Views, which is not very visually detailed. But here you go.



https://i.ibb.co/S7xQKsc/screencapture-genoplot-com-pca-1596177654867.png



The G25 Albanian, Greek Macedonia and Thessaly, indeed all cluster on top of each other. I've no idea why Genoplot colors the Thessaly samples the same with the Albanian, it probably ran out of colors.



Edit: Sorry, your username is Hawk on that plot, I don't know why I wrote it like that, I must have confused you with someone else.

Archetype0ne
07-31-2020, 09:28 AM
Hey,

we need to collectively bug Michalis Moriopoulos to make a super-PCA with the members here who are interested, the above PCA is basically Genoplot's interation of Global 25 Views, which is not very visually detailed. But here you go.



https://i.ibb.co/S7xQKsc/screencapture-genoplot-com-pca-1596177654867.png



The G25 Albanian, Greek Macedonia and Thessaly, indeed all cluster on top of each other. I've no idea why Genoplot colors the Thessaly samples the same with the Albanian, it probably ran out of colors.



Edit: Sorry, your username is Hawk on that plot, I don't know why I wrote it like that, I must have confused you with someone else.

Thank you!, looks awesome, and where I plot is close to what I suspected.
Oh and Hawk sounds nice anyways, not sure how it happened but I like it ;)

PS: Where is your dad from? What about his parents? I would guess Thessaly or somewhere close.

dosas
07-31-2020, 10:02 AM
PS: Where is your dad from? What about his parents? I would guess Thessaly or somewhere close.

Read the last post or two in this thread of mine (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?16626-My-Big-Y700-results-from-FTDNA-Northern-Greek/page6).

Archetype0ne
07-31-2020, 10:15 AM
Read the last post or two in this thread of mine (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?16626-My-Big-Y700-results-from-FTDNA-Northern-Greek/page6).

Very interesting, it seems I hit the spot with that guess... albeit a common sense guess so it should not boost my ego xD.

PS: I saw Gagauz mentioned there as autosomally close to your father. Given we plot relatively close I liked to mention that apart from Kosovar, Greece Central Macedonia, Tuscany and Swiss Italian, autosomally with most calculators I plot close to Gagauz (Like 4-5th closest population). A bit of a dilemma as they are supposedly Turkish speaking in Bulgaria. My guess would be they were probably some ethnically distinct population in the Balkans close autosomally to the aforementioned populations that got assimilated/Turkicized during the Ottoman Empire.

dosas
07-31-2020, 10:32 AM
I don't know much about them, you should ask the Turkish posters on this board, they are better versed in answering about their origins. I know that autosomally, they are not very different to Bulgarians, so it's common for Balkaners to get them as close results. I know that the Southern ones (the ones in Greece not in Bulgaria/Moldova) were Hellenised linguistically quite early and were persecuted by the Ottoman authorities in Edirne, during the Balkan Wars, so they were quite adamant of joining the Greek statehood, but that's as far back as my knowledge goes.

It could just be a case of them being closest to the average meeting point of my grandparents. The Greek poster, 23abc, subtracted 75% of Albanian from my father's co-ords and the remainder 25% had him very close to the Croatian cluster, so it could just be that you end up on the Gagauz cluster if you push Albanian towards Croatia by 25% distance of the original point of origin, if you get what I am saying.

Archetype0ne
07-31-2020, 10:46 AM
I get how it would shift if 75% was removed from your father, the PCA would shift North-West towards present day Bosnia/Croatia. However what does not convince me is the present location of Gagauz. Geographically today they reside in Bulgaria and beyond the Carpathians in Moldova and Ukraine. Genetically they seem to cluster close to Northern Mainland Greeks,Albanians and Bulgarians. This can be explained by some population movement. But yeah... Gagauz seem to be an interesting mystery. I mean Orthodox Christians speaking Oghuz Turkic with North Turkic language elements, located in Eastern Europe, plotting in Southern Europe. There is quite a lot going on with this population. I will stop here not to derail this thread.

I rarely frequent genetic forums nowadays so don't know any Turkish members. Might use the search function to find someone who can better explain.

Have a great day!

driM7
09-01-2020, 04:34 PM
I get how it would shift if 75% was removed from your father, the PCA would shift North-West towards present day Bosnia/Croatia. However what does not convince me is the present location of Gagauz. Geographically today they reside in Bulgaria and beyond the Carpathians in Moldova and Ukraine. Genetically they seem to cluster close to Northern Mainland Greeks,Albanians and Bulgarians. This can be explained by some population movement. But yeah... Gagauz seem to be an interesting mystery. I mean Orthodox Christians speaking Oghuz Turkic with North Turkic language elements, located in Eastern Europe, plotting in Southern Europe. There is quite a lot going on with this population. I will stop here not to derail this thread.

I rarely frequent genetic forums nowadays so don't know any Turkish members. Might use the search function to find someone who can better explain.

Have a great day!

Hi Archetype0ne, week or two, I joined a discussion on another thread and the topic was if you score Gagauz, what are the chances of being related to Vlachs. (just search it under Gagauz keyword and you will find it).
Not saying this is to do with you, as I see you fit an average Albanian cluster, just pointing out of another option.
My father too is probably the closest to Gagauz on G25 3D PCA plots and few other admixture calculators. He is from south east Serbia, Bulgaria and Moldova is highest on E K15 admixture as I remember. His YDNA is rooted in Greece though but atDNA probably can not pick that up. Anyway, just thought I add my 5 cent here.

** Dosas, great thread and you got me into this and may post something here soon.

Cheers all

Andrewid
11-27-2020, 12:48 PM
I am messing around with the feature. Here's what the 2D looks like:

https://i.ibb.co/F4pvLzy/screencapture-genoplot-com-pca-1594812771914-1.png

Any reason you are omitting Cypriot Greeks who make up about 10% of total Greek population?

dosas
11-27-2020, 03:59 PM
Any reason you are omitting Cypriot Greeks who make up about 10% of total Greek population?

I am not omitting anyone, I was just messing around with the function and forgot about them. Feel free to expand the plot.

peloponnesian
03-01-2021, 12:42 PM
Can you re-upload the images? Also, anyone who keeps an unofficial database of Greek users, feel free to add me and my father:

pelop_father_scaled,0.118376,0.140143,0.003017,-0.0323,0.013233,-0.010598,0.003525,-0.005307,0.0045,0.021504,0.002761,-0.002847,0.000743,0.000138,-0.015472,0.009149,0.023991,0.00152,0.010936,0.0003 75,-0.006239,0.000247,0.003944,-0.000361,-0.004431

pelop_scaled,0.122929,0.139128,0.009428,-0.021318,0.020004,-0.01506,0.00423,-0.000462,-0.000205,0.023144,0.004384,-0.00015,0.004311,0.006331,-0.014522,0.008353,0.009388,-0.000253,0.002011,-0.004127,0.000374,0.002349,0.00912,0.009519,-0.006945