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wilkosz
07-25-2020, 07:12 AM
Here my results. Interesting, that I have no East European and no West Asian DNA.
What does the Balkans mean? Thrakians and Ilirians or south Slavs?
Are the Slavs in Eastern European DNA?
http://d.radikal.ru/d40/2007/82/0c4e42585f22.png (http://radikal.ru)

For comparison, the Bulgarians have the following structure
Balkan 81.7%
Greek and South Italian 64.8%
East European 39.9%
West Asian 19.3%
Italian 16.5%
Baltic 16%
North and West European 14%
Ashkenazi Jewish 9.1%
Scandinavian 8.4%
North African 7.6%
Middle Eastern 7.4%
Iberian 5.1%
Finnish 4.5%
English 3.1%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh 2.5%
Sephardic Jewish - North African 2.3%
Central Asian 1.6%
South Asian 1.6%
Sardinian 1%
Mizrahi Jewish - Iranian/Iraqi 1%

Aspar
07-25-2020, 08:20 AM
Hi there, nice results you've got there.

Yes it's interesting that you haven't got EE or WA in your results. Most MyHeritage results of Bulgarians I've seen do show EE and WA. That's because MyHeritage ethnicity results most probably work like an oracle. Since the Balkan component in their results is based on the Serbs(as some of them are 100% Balkan) the Bulgarians don't end up modeled as Balkan most of the time but usually end up as a mix between Greek-South Italian and Eastern European plus West Asian.

So to answer your question, Balkan doesn't mean Thracian and Illyrian people. It's based on modern people of Serbian descent and as such incorporates varieties of Ancient and Medieval people such as Illyrians, Slavs and others.
The same with the Eastern European component, it seems that it's based on some Eastern European people such as Belarusians and Lithuanians. That's why some Southern Poles can get almost 50% Balkan in their results plus Eastern European.

Tbh, I don't rely too much on the Ethnicity estimate of MyHeritage but it's data is quite good and you can use it to get your G25 coordinates after which you can model yourself with varieties of Ancient and Modern samples.
Also it's tool 'Auto Clusters' is quite good too and helps you to organize and spot clusters of modern matches that likely descend from a same ancestor down your ancestry.

You can also compare with my own results:
Ethnicity Estimate

Europe

100.0%

South Europe

51.2%

Greek and South Italian

30.1%

Italian

21.1%

East Europe

48.8%

Balkan

48.8%

May I ask you where from Bulgaria your grandparents come from?

wilkosz
07-25-2020, 08:34 AM
Hi, yes the results are very nice for me.
Your results are also nice and typical also for the Bulgarians. I can't see any difference, except for the rather large percentage of Italian genes.
I am from Eastern Bulgaria (Dobric, Shumen and Sliven). But My Heritage shows West Asian to some Bulgarians, Greek, Romanian, Serbian if they have it. I watched some results of these ethnicityes. But not so many in Bulgaria as is estimated, as seen by 19% and in very small percentage. And also the results of the Bulgarians, not only mine, show that we are pure europeans and not Tatars at all and very rarely does anyone have Central Asian DNA (only 1,6%).

Aspar
07-25-2020, 09:48 AM
Yes, we have similar results.
However as I said MyHeritage Ethnicity estimate should be taken with a grain of salt.
The best is if you download your raw data and buy your G25 coordinates from Eurogenes for 12$ and then you might plot yourself on Vahaduo's PCA or play with the different calculators or make even your own.
Plus you will compare yourself with other modern samples and can see who is closest to you by distance.
That can't be said with the ethnicity estimate of MyHeritage.
For example, I as a Macedonian with origins from the triangle between Doiran-Vodena-Enidze Vardar am closest to Greek Macedonians and the ethnic Macedonians from that area. On the other hand some ethnic Macedonians from the far north of the country end up far away from me and almost look like a different ethnicity. Therefore there is a variation in the genetic make up of the ethnic Macedonians but also in the Bulgarians as well. People from the North-West of Bulgaria are for sure quite different than you. These people together with the ethnic Macedonians from the north of the country form what I call Torlakian cluster. You probably form a cluster of its own with people from Eastern Bulgaria and Thracia.
Anyways most Bulgarians don't show Asian influence in their DNA but even when they show it's miniscule and this type of DNA is also present in other ethnicities in the Balkans.
We don't even have DNA from the old Bulgars to know for sure what they were like genetically.
As you know the stupidy and the ignorance is quite high in the Balkans so I don't agree with any sort of mocking done by either side.

wilkosz
07-25-2020, 11:00 AM
I would like to upload my raw data to Gedmatch, but the server is offline.
I am here not for spekulations and not for propaganda. Speculations has been going on for decades under Tito and has continued thereafter from North Macedonia.
It is the search for truth that is important, not propaganda.
Some Macedonians have already discovered the truth about their origins.
This North Macedonian man seeking honestly the truth about himself and he discovered it. The genetic test also showed his closest connection with the Bulgarians.

https://youtu.be/heECxVf7nxI


https://youtu.be/B6-GErvSc5E

Aspar
07-25-2020, 12:21 PM
Gedmatch is not working atm because of hackers attack.

Well I am all for the truth but the most I am for the right of self identification.
There has been a lot of propaganda during Tito but some facts are undeniable. The fact that the ethnic Macedonians called themselves as such before Tito even was born as it's confirmed by the Bulgarian ethnographer Vasil Kanchov who wrote in the late 19th and early 20th century that the macedonian Bulgarians and Kutsovlachs called themselves Macedonians. You can find his book online. Of course what he called macedonian Bulgarians were people who spoke Bulgarian language.

Now I don't know the personal story of every Macedonian but I identify what my paternal line identified with and by my personal research my great-grandfather who was born in 1900 did identify himself as Macedonian as my grandfather and father after him. Now there is interesting story connected with the village by origin of my paternal line. The village was reported by several sources(Kancov, Weigand, Shultse-Jena, Ivanov, etc) as a village inhabited by people who once spoke Eastern Romance or simply Kutsovlasi or Kacauni and who were bilingual in both Bulgarian and Eastern Romance. However overtime the Bulgarian language became dominant but nevertheless my paternal side had always identified as Macedonians and only Macedonians. That's why I entered in the world of genetics to discover more about this and I am happy to say that I was able to confirm the connection as in the last thousand years my closest ydna matches are Eastern Romance, Macedonian and Greek speakers who ultimately descend from the mountainous massiv between South Albania and Greece and this also gets along with the story I've heard from the older people that the first inhabitants of the village came from more westernly located region.
In that regard I already know the truth about me.
However as I said I don't know the truth for everyone who identified as Macedonian today so I can't speak for everyone.

Dorkymon
07-25-2020, 01:24 PM
If you were to go to DNA -> DNA Tools, you'll see that Balkan on MyHeritage covers Eastern Czechia, Southern Poland, all of Slovakia, half of Austria in the North and down to Greece in the South. It's a broader term than on 23andme. That's why I can find a lot of Western Ukrainians and Slovaks scoring about 60-70% Balkan. I also found that Eastern European and Balkan are at times very similar. I'm like 89% Balkan, but on GEDmatch seem to be identical to a fellow Moldovan who is about 60% Balkan and 40% East Euro.

wilkosz
07-25-2020, 01:25 PM
Now I will reveal the secret that I deliberately did not say at the beginning. I wanted to see first how the discussion would develop.
My great-grandfather's family lived in Northern Macedonia until 1900. In 1905 they moved to Bulgaria because they always had a Bulgarian identity. Bingo. Their last name was Bonev. A typical Bulgarian family. In the 1970s there was a famous Bulgarian football player Hristo Bonev. After they emigrated to Bulgaria, they changed their surname to Tetovski. I am also Tetovski. Because until then they lived in the town of Tetovo. There were no Macedonians. My grandfather was born in 1903. So I am 1/8 northern Macedonian, ie. Bulgarian, there is no difference. This is the truth, as Bobby says in the video. Evidence of the Bulgarian origin of the northern Macedonians is everywhere. An his DNA Test is also typical als yours and mine... Not a suprise. The Serbian, Albanian and Greek DNA are different.

Dorkymon
07-25-2020, 01:35 PM
But not so many in Bulgaria as is estimated, as seen by 19% and in very small percentage.

I only have 2 Bulgarian matches out of the total of 2.5k so far, but both score West Asian in small amounts. This doesn't mean that they have West Asian admixture, because MyHeritage works like an ADMIXTURE calculator, so it simply tries to balance out different components.

1)
Balkan
31.7%
Baltic
11.5%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh
8.9%
Greek and South Italian
40.8%
West Asian
7.1%

2)
Balkan
34.7%
East European
20.3%
Greek and South Italian
25.7%
Italian
13.4%
Ashkenazi Jewish
3.2%
West Asian
2.7%

Buxoro
07-25-2020, 01:36 PM
No reason to rely on MyHeritage estimate it’s literally the worst company on the market.
Use your raw data on YourDnaPortal since Gedmatch is down and use some free calculators - it will be better than anything from MyHeritage. That being said most Bulgarians score West Asian/Med admixture on the calculators so you should have it too.

Aspar
07-25-2020, 02:11 PM
Now I will reveal the secret that I deliberately did not say at the beginning. I wanted to see first how the discussion would develop.
My great-grandfather's family lived in Northern Macedonia until 1900. In 1905 they moved to Bulgaria because they always had a Bulgarian identity. Bingo. Their last name was Bonev. A typical Bulgarian family. In the 1970s there was a famous Bulgarian football player Hristo Bonev. After they emigrated to Bulgaria, they changed their surname to Tetovski. I am also Tetovski. Because until then they lived in the town of Tetovo. There were no Macedonians. My grandfather was born in 1903. So I am 1/8 northern Macedonian, ie. Bulgarian, there is no difference. This is the truth, as Bobby says in the video. Evidence of the Bulgarian origin of the northern Macedonians is everywhere. An his DNA Test is also typical als yours and mine... Not a suprise. The Serbian, Albanian and Greek DNA are different.

But you not only lied in your initial post about your origins but also it seems you opened this thread to promote the same stupidity and ignorance I was talking about.

You don't know the personal story of every self identifying Macedonian and you can't possibly say what their origins are just because they speak a highly related to Bulgarian language today. I don't deny that the ethnic Macedonians and the Bulgarians are highly related but the two nations took different paths and had different influences. You might speak about some Macedonians by nationality today that identify as Bulgarian but you can't speak for all.
And clearly you haven't read Kanchov and his statement about the Macedonian identification in his time or are clearly ignoring the facts and are biased which is more likely.
Then again I don't think you came on the right place to promote your frustrations.
The Bulgarians and the ethnic Macedonians should be friends but people like you are doing everything possible to make them enemies.

wilkosz
07-25-2020, 04:27 PM
You are wrong. I told the truth. One of my grandfathers is from Dobrich, one grandmother from Shumen and the other grandmother from Sliven. I just waited with northern Macedonia.
When I opened the topic, I did not know that there are north Macedonians here.
There is no need for emotions here. I do not dispute your choice. I do not confront. I am talking about historical and genetic truth. In Macedonia you can to be a Greek Macedonian, an Albanian, a Serb or a Bulgarian. There is no other option. If you are greek Macedonian then I understand, then you are really not Bulgarian and it is OK. But if you are not greek Macedonian, I understand that it is difficult for you to accept it. Is it easy to be a Bulgarian in Macedonia? All the problems between the two countries started from the northern Macedonia. Antibulgarian Propaganda everywhere in North Macedonia. Bulgaria was the first country to recognize the sovereign state of Macedonia in 1992. Although there were reasons not to do... But I don't want to talk about politics anymore.

wilkosz
07-25-2020, 04:30 PM
Dorkymoon,
In you tube I see the most Bulgarian results without West Asian.
This is my video from My Heritage.

https://youtu.be/vvH-fSjeih8

Here videos from other Bulgarians, only one have West Asian.

https://youtu.be/obff7RDUJl0


https://youtu.be/b9ieNLSpzlI


https://youtu.be/5quJm1OQum4


https://youtu.be/6RZB-DKA-lI


https://youtu.be/C-lS7CGVuKQ

wilkosz
07-25-2020, 07:18 PM
Now Gedmatch seems to be online. Tomorrow I try to upload my raw data there. ;)

wilkosz
07-26-2020, 12:13 PM
So the distance. The first plase was very clear. My second home country seems to be Greek Thesally :-)
http://b.radikal.ru/b09/2007/4d/8d9717993fb5.png

Dorkymon
07-26-2020, 12:26 PM
So the distance. The first plase was very clear. My second home country seems to be Greek Thesally :-)
http://b.radikal.ru/b09/2007/4d/8d9717993fb5.png

Show the components for Eurogenes K13 too. You should see plenty of East Med and West Asian, which got hidden in the Greek and South Italian category on MyHeritage.

wilkosz
07-26-2020, 12:36 PM
Should I believe that?
Where was 22% of the North Atlantic and 21% of the Baltic hidden?
Only 1% Siberian out of 3.5% Finnish. The difference of 2% is clearly Baltic Finnish not Asian Finnish.
1 East_Med 25.97
2 North_Atlantic 22.14
3 Baltic 21.81
4 West_Med 19.68
5 West_Asian 6.4
6 South_Asian 1.36
7 Siberian 1.29
8 Red_Sea 0.89
9 Amerindian 0.35
10 Oceanian 0.11

JerryS.
07-26-2020, 01:59 PM
GEDmatch is up and running again, I just checked it. So, now that you have your raw data available, load it onto GEDmatch and get your G25 data. That way you are not bound by the one ethnicity model you have now. however, since you are not regionally mixed you probably have fairly solid results already.

Dorkymon
07-26-2020, 03:04 PM
Should I believe that?
Where was 22% of the North Atlantic and 21% of the Baltic hidden?
Only 1% Siberian out of 3.5% Finnish. The difference of 2% is clearly Baltic Finnish not Asian Finnish.
1 East_Med 25.97
2 North_Atlantic 22.14
3 Baltic 21.81
4 West_Med 19.68
5 West_Asian 6.4
6 South_Asian 1.36
7 Siberian 1.29
8 Red_Sea 0.89
9 Amerindian 0.35
10 Oceanian 0.11

They were hidden in Balkan.

wilkosz
07-26-2020, 03:44 PM
who is north Athlantic? Some people have from my heritage still Nord-West European, or English, or Celtics, or Skandinavian, or Baltic. Why I haven t there, but here I have?

Dorkymon
07-26-2020, 05:14 PM
who is north Athlantic? Some people have from my heritage still Nord-West European, or English, or Celtics, or Skandinavian, or Baltic. Why I haven t there, but here I have?

MyHeritage doesn't work like 23andme. If they assign NW European to someone, for example me, then that doesn't always mean that they have real ancestry from there. They are simply trying to balance out all the components in your admixture.
You can read more on this here (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21171-MyHeritage-and-inconsistent-Ancestry-Assignments-My-Impression).

Dorkymon
07-26-2020, 05:38 PM
Should I believe that?
Where was 22% of the North Atlantic and 21% of the Baltic hidden?
Only 1% Siberian out of 3.5% Finnish. The difference of 2% is clearly Baltic Finnish not Asian Finnish.
1 East_Med 25.97
2 North_Atlantic 22.14
3 Baltic 21.81
4 West_Med 19.68
5 West_Asian 6.4
6 South_Asian 1.36
7 Siberian 1.29
8 Red_Sea 0.89
9 Amerindian 0.35
10 Oceanian 0.11

Here are your results from G25 Eurogenes K13 (http://**********************/k13-vahaduo.htm).



Distance to:
wilkosz


5.37740644
Macedonian_East


5.85810550
Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central


6.24902392
Greek_Thessaloniki


6.92104038
Albanian_north_Albania


7.01109834
Albanian_Macedonia


7.08337490
Greek_Northern-Thrace


7.12828170
Bulgarian_Plovdiv


7.15548740
Macedonian_Southwest


7.25909645
North_Macedonian


7.35040135
Macedonian_North


7.38398267
Albanian_south_Albania


7.48783680
Albanian_Montenegro


7.49326364
Albanian


7.58397653
Vlach_North-Macedonia-Highlander


7.60519559
Bulgarian_Central


7.67658127
Albanian_Albania


7.72077069
Pomak_Plovdiv


7.75309616
Turk_Thessaloniki


8.24538659
Albanian_Kosovo


8.25633696
Bulgarian_Southwest


8.36329481
Bulgarian_Serres


8.48198776
Bulgarian_Thrace


8.71774627
Greek_Central-Macedonia


8.72314737
Gagauz


8.76369214
Bulgarian





A regional model for you with samples from Bulgaria, Macedonia and the Northern parts of Greece.

Target: wilkosz
Distance: 4.8346% / 4.83458149 | ADC: 0.25x
63.4 Macedonian_East
36.0 Greek_Thessaloniki
0.4 GR_Peloponese
0.2 Bulgarian_Southwest
0.0 Bulgarian
0.0 Bulgarian_Burgas
0.0 Bulgarian_Central
0.0 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
0.0 Bulgarian_Eastern-Rhodopes
0.0 Bulgarian_Gabrovo
0.0 Bulgarian_North-Rhodope
0.0 Bulgarian_Northwest
0.0 Bulgarian_Pazardzhik
0.0 Bulgarian_Pleven
0.0 Bulgarian_Plovdiv
0.0 Bulgarian_Ruse
0.0 Bulgarian_Serres
0.0 Bulgarian_Sofia
0.0 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora
0.0 Bulgarian_Thrace
0.0 GR_Macedonia
0.0 Greek_Central-Macedonia
0.0 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
0.0 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
0.0 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
0.0 Greek_Northern-Thrace
0.0 Greek_Thessaly
0.0 Greek_Western-Macedonia
0.0 Greek_Western-Thrace
0.0 Macedonian
0.0 Macedonian_Central
0.0 Macedonian_Greece
0.0 Macedonian_North
0.0 Macedonian_Northwest
0.0 Macedonian_Southeast
0.0 Macedonian_Southwest
0.0 Romani
0.0 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
0.0 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
0.0 Vlach_Central-Macedonia
0.0 Vlach_North-Macedonia
0.0 Vlach_North-Macedonia-Highlander

Without Greeks
Target: wilkosz
Distance: 5.0396% / 5.03958088 | ADC: 0.25x
80.0 Macedonian_East
20.0 Bulgarian_Thrace
0.0 Bulgarian
0.0 Bulgarian_Burgas
0.0 Bulgarian_Central
0.0 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
0.0 Bulgarian_Eastern-Rhodopes
0.0 Bulgarian_Gabrovo
0.0 Bulgarian_North-Rhodope
0.0 Bulgarian_Northwest
0.0 Bulgarian_Pazardzhik
0.0 Bulgarian_Pleven
0.0 Bulgarian_Plovdiv
0.0 Bulgarian_Ruse
0.0 Bulgarian_Serres
0.0 Bulgarian_Sofia
0.0 Bulgarian_Southwest
0.0 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora
0.0 Macedonian
0.0 Macedonian_Central
0.0 Macedonian_Greece
0.0 Macedonian_North
0.0 Macedonian_Northwest
0.0 Macedonian_Southeast
0.0 Macedonian_Southwest
0.0 Romani
0.0 Vlach_Central-Macedonia
0.0 Vlach_North-Macedonia
0.0 Vlach_North-Macedonia-Highlander

wilkosz
07-26-2020, 05:51 PM
Thank you. I don't know, it's always confusing. Every time is different. But it is a fact that I look like my father, whose roots are from northern Macedonia. But they come from western, not eastern northern Macedonia.
I find interesting this data. I have much more Farmer also Vegetarian DNA than Hunter and I am a vegetarian by birth, I have never eaten meat and I have never developed a vitamin deficiency. Because my genes are from the farmers. I have been vegan for the last 2 years and I am still in great health and I am 45 years old.:
http://d.radikal.ru/d22/2007/ed/970761c9f87c.jpg (http://radikal.ru)

Kasana
09-04-2020, 02:47 PM
can contact me