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View Full Version : How much of the Yamnaya-like Ancestry in the People from Dagestan is real?



Riverman
07-27-2020, 05:38 PM
Like the thread title says, how much of the Yamnaya or steppe-like ancestry in the people from Dagestan and surrounds, like the Dargins, Kubachinian, Lak and Avars is real. In many comparisons they seem to have Northern and Eastern European like levels of Yamnaya related ancestry. Did anyone try to differentiate it with more elobarate tools from a general Caucasian basal ancestry and is this even possible and meaningful?

Mis
07-27-2020, 08:55 PM
The steppe people live in Digor Ossetian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digor_Ossetian
Their Y-DNA r1b-Y5886

Riverman
07-27-2020, 09:01 PM
To give an impression of what I mean, here is a crude G25 run:
38754

Ajeje Brazorf
07-27-2020, 09:21 PM
They actually have less (39%) than, for example, the Germans (46%). What can increase exponentially the amount of Steppe is the strong component of CHG present in those populations (Laks, Kubachinians, Darginians). Without counting it, 20% of their DNA originates in the Steppes.




Distance
GEO_CHG
TUR_Boncuklu_N
RUS_Sidelkino_HG
IRN_Tepe_Abdul_Hosein_N
RUS_AfontovaGora3
Levant_Natufian
TUR_Pinarbasi_HG


Darginian
0.04820021
42.6
25.8
13.2
9.4
8.8
0.2
0.0


Kubachinian
0.04771622
44.2
24.0
14.8
9.8
5.4
1.8
0.0


Lak
0.04708168
41.8
20.6
13.8
11.0
6.4
3.6
2.8

Mis
07-27-2020, 09:24 PM
I don't know this data. I need to get acquainted first.
I don't know anything about Y-DNA G, J2 from Yamna culture.

rothaer
07-27-2020, 09:52 PM
Like the thread title says, how much of the Yamnaya or steppe-like ancestry in the people from Dagestan and surrounds, like the Dargins, Kubachinian, Lak and Avars is real. In many comparisons they seem to have Northern and Eastern European like levels of Yamnaya related ancestry. Did anyone try to differentiate it with more elobarate tools from a general Caucasian basal ancestry and is this even possible and meaningful?

I presuppose all what you see. Yamnaya is roughly half CGH and half EHG. Daghestanians will have a surplus of CHG so EHG will be the limited component. If you take EHG twice, that will roughly be Yamnaya proportion. Here the result for two population averages:

https://imgur.com/Bk5jApe

It corresponds with 40-50% Yamnaya and fits to what you displayed.

Riverman
07-27-2020, 11:56 PM
They actually have less (39%) than, for example, the Germans (46%). What can increase exponentially the amount of Steppe is the strong component of CHG present in those populations (Laks, Kubachinians, Darginians). Without counting it, 20% of their DNA originates in the Steppes.


But that would mean that all of this EHG came into the region in pre-steppe times, even before the Progress sample, which I think is possible for some amount of it, but surely not for all of it. So what your run proves is that a relatively very high amount of real steppe ancestry is likely, unless we miss something in the calculation and its for example a disproportionally high ANE component in the local CHG base or something like that.


I presuppose all what you see. Yamnaya is roughly half CGH and half EHG. Daghestanians will have a surplus of CHG so EHG will be the limited component. If you take EHG twice, that will roughly be Yamnaya proportion. Here the result for two population averages:

It corresponds with 40-50% Yamnaya and fits to what you displayed.

That's really high, I just wonder whether there is any other model to explain it in part. And its also interesting that they all speak non-Indo-European languages. They seem all to have a predominance of J1+J2 in theri yDNA, which might be the main part of the explanation. Like PIE did take Caucasian-shifted women, they might have taken steppe-shifted ones. But probably we need to dig deeper into this.

Moderator
07-28-2020, 12:02 AM
This thread has been moved to a more appropriate section of the forum.