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Rathna
02-03-2014, 12:17 PM
This is an interesting haplotype of the R1b1a2a1 (xL51) project, i.e. R-Z2103/Z2105+ now:
131176 Najeeb Sahadi b. 1879, Zahlé, Lebanon Lebanon R1b1a2a1
12 24 14 11 11-14 12 12 12 12 13 29 16 9-10 11 11 25 14 20 28 15-16-16-17 12 12 19-23 16 15 18 17 37-38 13 12 9 9 16-16 8 10 10 8 12 10 12 23-23 15 10 12 12 16 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 12 11 12 12
Everyone would want to know which subclade it is, because in the 12 markers it seems close to the AMH, but elsewhere it has numerous mutations and in very slow mutating markers. When we have an apparent AMH, it is difficult to understand something from YHRD, which doesn't test those very slow mutating markers. But DYS389=12-29 is interesting because it needs two mutations from the modal 13-29, i.e. DYS389I from 13 to 12 and DYS389II from 28 to 29. In fact to ask YHRD with this haplotype can give us many interesting answers::
7 14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 12 12 13 19 15 19 23 12 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 12 12 14 19 15 18 23 13 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 M173 R-M173 (Aliases: R-P225, R-P231, R-P233, R-P234, R-P236, R-P238, R-P242, R-P286, R-P294, R-V45; YCC: R1) >>
1 14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 12 12 14 19 16 16 22 12 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 12 12 15 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 12 14 15 19 16 16 24 12 18 22 12 12 17 10 - >>
2 of 31 Digora, Russian Federation [Ossetians] Eurasian - Caucasian Asia
1 of 45 La Spezia, Italy [Italian] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe
1 of 208 Sao Paulo State, Brazil [Admixed] Admixed Latin America
1 of 154 Tuxtla Gutiérrez, Mexico [Mestizo] Admixed Latin America
1 of 216 Southern Moravia, Czech Republic [Czech] Eurasian - European - Eastern European Europe
1 of 80 Tehran, Iran [Iranian] Eurasian - Indo-Iranian Asia
1 of 28 Ardon, Russian Federation [Ossetian] Eurasian - Caucasian Asia
1 of 202 Budapest, Hungary [Hungarian] Eurasian - European - South-Eastern European Europe
1 of 1114 Leipzig, Germany [German] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe
1 of 130 Modena, Italy [Italian] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe
1 of 246 Lublin, Poland [Polish] Eurasian - European - Eastern European Europe
14 12 29 24 11 13 13 11,14 48 >>
14 12 29 24 10 13 12 11,14 2 >>
14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,15 2 >>
14 12 28 24 11 13 12 11,14 16 >>
14 13 30 24 11 13 12 11,14 154 >>
15 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 1 >>
14 12 29 23 11 13 12 11,14 1 >>
14 12 29 24 11 13 12 12,14 1 >>
(to continue)

Rathna
02-03-2014, 02:00 PM
The first thing to do is to assign every haplotype, till it is possible, to his owner. It will be possible only with five, but we'll be able to have already some indication:

1 14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 12 12 13 19 15 19 23 12 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 of 208 Sao Paulo State, Brazil [Admixed] Admixed Latin America
1 14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 12 12 14 19 15 18 23 13 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 M173 R-M173 (Aliases: R-P225, R-P231, R-P233, R-P234, R-P236, R-P238, R-P242, R-P286, R-P294, R-V45; YCC: R1) >>
1 of 130 Modena, Italy [Italian] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe
1 14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 12 12 14 19 16 16 22 12 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 of 154 Tuxtla Gutiérrez, Mexico [Mestizo] Admixed Latin America
1 14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 12 12 15 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 of 216 Southern Moravia, Czech Republic [Czech] Eurasian - European - Eastern European Europe
1 14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 12 14 15 19 16 16 24 12 18 22 12 12 17 10 - >>
1 of 45 La Spezia, Italy [Italian] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe

It couldn't go better for me: Italy is clear the center. When we do a similar research we don't know at the start where it will bring us.
The seven haplotypes undifferentiated are in fact less meaningful, because they could be everything.

Rathna
02-03-2014, 02:14 PM
If we take in consideration DYS437 and DYS448, that that in the Lebanese sample have the values 14-20, we can see that the modal 15-19 belongs to the Italian sample from La Spezia, that also the Czech one has DYS437=15 but lacks DYS448. Thus clearly the sample from Modena (Italy) with 14-19 derives from this, like the sample from Mexico, and that the sample from Brazil derived from this with the mutation in DYS437 from 14 to 13.
We may suppose that the Lebanese sample derived from one haplotype with 14-19, having a mutation in DYS448 from 19 to 20.

Rathna
02-03-2014, 02:25 PM
What about the other linked haplotypes to continue the research?
14 12 29 24 11 13 13 11,14 48 >>
14 12 29 24 10 13 12 11,14 2 >>
14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,15 2 >>
14 12 28 24 11 13 12 11,14 16 >>
14 13 30 24 11 13 12 11,14 154 >>
15 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 1 >>
14 12 29 23 11 13 12 11,14 1 >>
14 12 29 24 11 13 12 12,14 1 >>
We may begin by excluding the most diffused, because this
14 12 29 24 11 13 13 11,14 48 >>
having DYS393=13 probably doesn't belong to this haplogroup R-Z2105
and this
14 13 30 24 11 13 12 11,14 154 >>
because less linked to our haplotype, having had a mutation in DYS389II from 29 to 30 but not the mutation in DYS389I.
These other sample may be investigated:
14 12 29 24 10 13 12 11,14 2 >>
14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,15 2 >>
14 12 28 24 11 13 12 11,14 16 >>
15 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 1 >>
14 12 29 23 11 13 12 11,14 1 >>
14 12 29 24 11 13 12 12,14 1 >>
but this sample is less meaningful having had only the first mutation in DYS389I from 13 to 12 but not the second mutation in DYS389II from 28 to 29:
14 12 28 24 11 13 12 11,14 16 >>
They remain these 7 samples:
14 12 29 24 10 13 12 11,14 2 >>
14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,15 2 >>
15 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 1 >>
14 12 29 23 11 13 12 11,14 1 >>
14 12 29 24 11 13 12 12,14 1 >>
They could give interesting information.

Rathna
02-03-2014, 03:10 PM
1 14 12 29 24 10 13 12 11,14 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 14 12 29 24 10 13 12 11,14 12 11 13 18 15 19 24 12 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 of 154 Tuxtla Gutiérrez, Mexico [Mestizo] Admixed Latin America
1 of 100 Damascus, Syria [Syrian] Afro-Asiatic - Semitic Asia
1 14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,15 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 14 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,15 12 14 15 19 15 16 24 13 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 of 433 Hebei, China [Han] East Asian - Sino-Tibetan - Chinese Asia
1 of 51 Umbria, Italy [Italian] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe
1 15 12 29 24 11 13 12 11,14 12 13 14 19 15 16 24 12 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 of 154 Tuxtla Gutiérrez, Mexico [Mestizo] Admixed Latin America
1 14 12 29 23 11 13 12 11,14 12 13 15 20 17 17 23 13 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 of 191 Northern Greece, Greece [Greek] Eurasian - European - South-Eastern European Europe
1 14 12 29 24 11 13 12 12,14 12 11 15 20 18 17 23 12 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 - >>
1 of 216 Alicante, Spain [Spanish] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe

Silesian
02-03-2014, 03:57 PM
This is an interesting haplotype of the R1b1a2a1 (xL51) project, i.e. R-Z2103/Z2105+ now:
131176 Najeeb Sahadi b. 1879, Zahlé, Lebanon Lebanon R1b1a2a1
12 24 14 11 11-14 12 12 12 12 13 29
2 of 31 Digora, Russian Federation [Ossetians] Eurasian - Caucasian Asia
1 of 45 La Spezia, Italy [Italian] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe
1 of 208 Sao Paulo State, Brazil [Admixed] Admixed Latin America
1 of 154 Tuxtla Gutiérrez, Mexico [Mestizo] Admixed Latin America
1 of 216 Southern Moravia, Czech Republic [Czech] Eurasian - European - Eastern European Europe
1 of 80 Tehran,Iran [Iranian] Eurasian - Indo-Iranian Asia
1 of 28 Ardon, Russian Federation [Ossetian] Eurasian - Caucasian Asia
1 of 202 Budapest, Hungary [Hungarian] Eurasian - European - South-Eastern European Europe
1 of 1114 Leipzig, Germany [German] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe
1 of 130 Modena, Italy [Italian] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe
1 of 246 Lublin, Poland [Polish] Eurasian - European - Eastern European Europe

Digora-Split-Modena-La Spezia, all are in Alan migration.Digora is also Alan/Scythian/Eastern Iranian language.
118282 Joseph Skoda, 1900-1989, Split, Croatia
258791 Tseboev Russian Federation
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Alani_map.jpg

Humanist
02-03-2014, 04:32 PM
This is an interesting haplotype of the R1b1a2a1 (xL51) project, i.e. R-Z2103/Z2105+ now:
131176 Najeeb Sahadi b. 1879, Zahlé, Lebanon Lebanon R1b1a2a1

Regarding his paternal line's stated place of origin:

Wikipedia


Zahlé is the largest predominantly Christian town in Lebanon and the Middle East...

Rathna
02-03-2014, 04:43 PM
Digora-Split-Modena-La Spezia, all are in Alan migration.Digora is also Alan/Scythian/Eastern Iranian language.
118282 Joseph Skoda, 1900-1989, Split, Croatia
258791 Tseboev Russian Federation


Unfortunately SMGf permits only a few researches every day, but there are many interesting similar haplotypes, many from East Asia, which probably belong to another haplogroup, but there is a Gubensek from Czech Republik and some Germans who merit to be studied, even though they are in the Ancestry.com format. The Alan hypothesis should be deeply verified, perhaps by a Full Y as Ricardo Costa de Oliveira did for his J-M365. I am waiting that all these new SNPs found demonstrate something.
MTJQJ Rausch Hanover, Germany
12 24 14 12 12 13 12 13 29 13 11 11 24 19 32 16 16 18 18 11 11 19 23 12 11 15
6HTD3 White Germany
12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 12 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 26 15 19 30 14 14 17 18 11 12 18 23 12 17 12 11 11 16 24 10 15 12 12 14 30
EMTQP Gubensek Unknown
12 12 12 13 29 11 11 11

Silesian
02-03-2014, 05:37 PM
The Alan hypothesis should be deeply verified, perhaps by a Full Y as Ricardo Costa de Oliveira did for his J-M365. I am waiting that all these new SNPs found demonstrate something.

A full y would be very good. I'm curious if have you checked your autosomal for Siberian, Ural, or ANE [ancestral North Eurasian]?

Rathna
02-03-2014, 06:06 PM
A full y would be very good. I'm curious if have you checked your autosomal for Siberian, Ural, or ANE [ancestral North Eurasian]?

I didn't, because I am skeptical about these data. 23andMe has found me 100% Italian so far, and from a few days I am only 51%. How is it believable? I criticized many years ago these data, when, for finding some Jewish ancestry in Justin Low, they deepened the draught...
What have we in common with Matthew Ware? Probably a little at the autosome level, but probably we have the same Y, and I am interested above all to his Big Y...

Silesian
02-03-2014, 07:10 PM
I didn't, because I am skeptical about these data. 23andMe has found me 100% Italian so far, and from a few days I am only 51%. How is it believable? I criticized many years ago these data, when, for finding some Jewish ancestry in Justin Low, they deepened the draught...What have we in common with M.. W..? Probably a little at the autosome level, but probably we have the same Y, and I am interested above all to his Big Y...

Good points. However all information in my view can benefit us in search for common ancestor. For example we all share non specific Northern European, and 0.0% Ashkenazi, on 23andme composition perhaps a Gedmatch calculator is better choice, than 23andme. However if Italy is the source of R1b we share in common, we should also share autosomal with you, who in theory should have have the highest reading of Italian component[source] between us, in my opinion. My readings could also be in doubt since I do not know if it is from my great grandmother Lenza of Italy on my paternal side; so you have a very valid point.

Rathna
02-03-2014, 09:17 PM
Silesian, I have seen that you have hidden beyond the initial letters of his name and surname that person, but he is an open person who is searching for his truth, and he never hid his identity, and it is paradoxical he didn't hide his NPE, his white English Y, whereas many others do their test anonymous, don't answer your request to share their data on 23andMe, etc. If we don't know deeply our ancestry is also for the guilt of these persons, and I won't ever accept this.
I am very angry with that person, an American lawyer from California of Mexican descent, whose I know everything from the web, who is the closest match of my mt K1a1b1e (only without my mutation in T11204C), who doesn't respond to my letters and who could give me important information about my origin. Why?