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View Full Version : Meaning and Ancestry Info needed of Subclade L-813



burstman
08-17-2020, 11:43 PM
39040


Recently wanted to dive a bit deeper into my dna because what 23&me provided was very satisfactory. After finding out about (morley's DNA Subclade Predictor tool) showed a result in which i couldn't find any good information on.
Anyone with more knowledge on this i'd greatly appreciate it!, as i'm also looking to purchase the BIG Y 700 from FTDNA.

L22/S142>z74>Z719/L813

Attached picture of my Morley results.

Calamus
08-18-2020, 08:04 AM
39040


Recently wanted to dive a bit deeper into my dna because what 23&me provided was very satisfactory. After finding out about (morley's DNA Subclade Predictor tool) showed a result in which i couldn't find any good information on.
Anyone with more knowledge on this i'd greatly appreciate it!, as i'm also looking to purchase the BIG Y 700 from FTDNA.

L22/S142>z74>Z719/L813

Attached picture of my Morley results.

I-L813 Looks like a Scandinavian subclade, which probably originated in Denmark.

Here is a heatmap which roughly shows its current distribution:
39042

deadly77
08-18-2020, 04:27 PM
Welcome to the Anthrogenica forums, and good luck finding the information you're looking for. Best person to talk to for information about I-L813 would be Bob Tipton. I don't believe he's active on these Anthrogenica forums but I see him post on various genetic genealogy focused pages on Facebook and one some of the project feeds on Family Tree DNA (FTDNA). He used to be an administrator for the I-L813 project at FTDNA, but I don't believe he is any longer. I've seem from his writings that he's very knowledgeable and helpful. As well as him, you should send an email to the current project administrators at FamilyTreeDNA - those folks are volunteer individuals and are probably best placed to answer any questions you have. You can find their emails on the project page here https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/i-l813y-haplogroup/about/background

While we're on FTDNA, you should also check out the FTDNA public haplotree for I-L813 here https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/I;name=I-L813and the YFull tree for I-L813 here https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-L813/. This will give you some of idea of the modern distribution of I-L813 men who have done Y-DNA testing and the current known subbranching beneath I-L813, which YFull estimates had a common ancestor between 3300-2700 years ago. There's also a few places where you can look at more visual clues for the distribution, and two good websites are Hunter Provyn's Phylogeographer (which includes the heatmap that Calamus shared above) here: https://phylogeographer.com/ and Rob Spencer's SNP Tracker here http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html.

For ancient samples, you can check out my Haplogroup I1 Ancient Samples map - link in my signature below. Among the I-L813 that we know about:

HSJ-A1 has been further refined to I-Y111864 by analysis of the BAM file. The remains of this individual were excavated in Hrólfsstađir, Iceland and dated to <1000 CE, published here https://science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6392/1028
There are at least 3 I-L813 samples listed in the Population Genetics of the Viking World preprint that you can read here https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/703405v1?fbclid=IwAR2O4kBJwnOeec9offhYFA4haoJog2uM 7VkdAFFk0u6Ahky3sFVf8ZtT8Yc the I-L813 samples are VK98 from Hofstađir, Iceland; VK529 from Ledingen, Norway; VK547 from Tjelsundet, Norway. We don't know what subclade below I-L813 these individuals were part of yet because the raw data hasn't been made public as the paper hasn't officially been published yet. There are a few more samples from that paper that might turn out to be I-L813 once we study them further.

burstman
08-19-2020, 07:21 PM
Really fantastic information you provided! wow!. I'll look into the resources in your post, see what more i can discover!. Regarding your signature it's not ready to reveal itself as I'm still too new on this board, Check back when i hit 10 posts hah!. Anyway thanks for taking time on the reply, great stuff.

JMcB
08-19-2020, 07:31 PM
Really fantastic information you provided! wow!. I'll look into the resources in your post, see what more i can discover!. Regarding your signature it's not ready to reveal itself as I'm still too new on this board, Check back when i hit 10 posts hah!. Anyway thanks for taking time on the reply, great stuff.

Maybe give this a try:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1znTXv7qpl4_2T4u9068jOaLzpsjNf62F&ll=55.53882686743272%2C-26.64711435000003&z=3&fbclid=IwAR1RFLbSoE4JQWsZg-9sENG0UwjIvTm0DoHgokcIkFcLpRGi9YMSIzjeugI

burstman
08-19-2020, 07:49 PM
worked like a charm!. Looking at some potential burial sites with the L-I813 tag, and found one titled "VK547 I-L813" naturally wanting more information I'm wondering if there's any raw data publicly shared of any L-I813 individual, as "deadly77" noted VK529 & VK547 and few others are lacking raw data availability.

spruithean
08-19-2020, 07:55 PM
worked like a charm!. Looking at some potential burial sites with the L-I813 tag, and found one titled "VK547 I-L813" naturally wanting more information I'm wondering if there's any raw data publicly shared of any L-I813 individual, as "deadly77" noted VK529 & VK547 and few others are lacking raw data availability.

The raw data from that study is still not available for public viewing, it's going to be awhile until then unfortunately.

Welcome to Anthrogenica and nice to see another I1 member!

JMcB
08-19-2020, 07:59 PM
worked like a charm!. Looking at some potential burial sites with the L-I813 tag, and found one titled "VK547 I-L813" naturally wanting more information I'm wondering if there's any raw data publicly shared of any L-I813 individual, as "deadly77" noted VK529 & VK547 and few others are lacking raw data availability.

If I remember correctly, some of those Bam files may be released in the coming months. Unfortunately, there’s no known timetable for that but that’s the scuttlebutt.


By the way Deadly, I really love your map! The way you’ve organized all of the information is really user friendly and enjoyable to browse through!

deadly77
08-19-2020, 10:27 PM
worked like a charm!. Looking at some potential burial sites with the L-I813 tag, and found one titled "VK547 I-L813" naturally wanting more information I'm wondering if there's any raw data publicly shared of any L-I813 individual, as "deadly77" noted VK529 & VK547 and few others are lacking raw data availability.

Ah, my apologies - I didn't realize that the new members wouldn't be able to see signatures - would have just put the link in the message otherwise. Although not a big deal as JMcB came through with the link.

Yep, we're waiting for that Population Genetics of the Viking World preprint to be fully published, as it contains the most I1 samples of any ancient DNA study to date - the rest are rather slim pickings for I1 as a whole. We're relying on the haplogroup assignments that they reported in the preprint but they used a automated extraction tool and a very limited reference tree so they probably haven't made the best determinations. Once they make the raw data available (which will probably be when the paper is fully published) then we can dig into the BAM files and likely give a better assessment. Although we don't know when that will be published as a paper. Hopefully sooner rather than later, but at least we have the preprint which is worth reading in it's own right.

The HSJ-A1 individual that I mentioned above - their raw data is publicly available and we were able to refine him from I-L813 that he was reported in the Ancient Icelanders paper to I-Y111864. HSJ-A1 represents one of the best sequenced I1 ancient samples I've seen, so we were able to get a lot of good data out of his BAM file. Unfortunately, not all ancient DNA is like that - most are a lot poorer in coverage. This is sometimes due to the DNA analysis performed by the lab but also comes down to degradation of the remains and the quality of the DNA that the researchers are able to recover.

deadly77
08-19-2020, 10:31 PM
If I remember correctly, some of those Bam files may be released in the coming months. Unfortunately, there’s no known timetable for that but that’s the scuttlebutt.


By the way Deadly, I really love your map! The way you’ve organized all of the information is really user friendly and enjoyable to browse through!

Thanks - I struggled with an Excel spreadsheet for a while but it wasn't easy to read. I find some people are more interested in the SNP calls and some are more interested in the archaeological context, while I'm interested in both. It's not perfect - comparing two samples head-to-head for example doesn't really work here and would be better in a spreadsheet. But I find the map option generally easier to read.

JMcB
08-20-2020, 12:05 AM
Thanks - I struggled with an Excel spreadsheet for a while but it wasn't easy to read. I find some people are more interested in the SNP calls and some are more interested in the archaeological context, while I'm interested in both. It's not perfect - comparing two samples head-to-head for example doesn't really work here and would be better in a spreadsheet. But I find the map option generally easier to read.

Of course, it’s nice to have both but I really like having the archaeological information. It adds a little life to the person in question and it’s also a nice time saver. As digging through the supplementals to find the person you want, often involves a lot page turning. It’s a nice resource!

Davidski has been saying that a lot of Medieval samples are coming out soon. With some of them coming from France, Germany & England. So things could get a little interesting. Let’s hope the Viking paper is in there, too.

burstman
08-20-2020, 01:28 AM
Thanks! , spruithean

i feel already very welcome. This was my very first thread and got much more than i expected, everyone has been so friendly

deadly77
08-21-2020, 10:46 PM
Of course, it’s nice to have both but I really like having the archaeological information. It adds a little life to the person in question and it’s also a nice time saver. As digging through the supplementals to find the person you want, often involves a lot page turning. It’s a nice resource!

Davidski has been saying that a lot of Medieval samples are coming out soon. With some of them coming from France, Germany & England. So things could get a little interesting. Let’s hope the Viking paper is in there, too.

It was AG forum member Celt_?? that gave me the idea for making a map - he asked if there was one for I1 and shared AG forum member R.Rocca's ancient R1b-U152 map which can be found here https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=15zJwudMOPqf20VVXXNXkm4qydzTP3VW0&ll=49.94185809129344%2C-1.2287218813476102&z=4 - I saw that worked really well at being able to show the data, and that really influenced my map.

Good to hear that there are more studies coming out. Unfortunately, I'll have less time to look into BAM files as my new job is keeping me rather busy. I'll get to them when I can , but in the past year it looks like Pribislav has figured out how to analyze the BAM files, does a great job and can do it a lot faster than me.

JMcB
08-22-2020, 12:17 AM
It was AG forum member Celt_?? that gave me the idea for making a map - he asked if there was one for I1 and shared AG forum member R.Rocca's ancient R1b-U152 map which can be found here https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=15zJwudMOPqf20VVXXNXkm4qydzTP3VW0&ll=49.94185809129344%2C-1.2287218813476102&z=4 - I saw that worked really well at being able to show the data, and that really influenced my map.

Good to hear that there are more studies coming out. Unfortunately, I'll have less time to look into BAM files as my new job is keeping me rather busy. I'll get to them when I can , but in the past year it looks like Pribislav has figured out how to analyze the BAM files, does a great job and can do it a lot faster than me.

The format works very nicely but the level of detail you’ve added is really the difference. I’m glad the job is keeping you busy because that’s a good sign. Considering the shock our economies have had to endure. If I remember correctly, Davidski gave a few months advance notice on the Viking preprint, so we’ll see. Hopefully, there something for us in the newer papers, too. Whatever they may be.