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View Full Version : why do i have more ETH_4500BP than the average somali?



afbarwaaqo
08-25-2020, 04:02 AM
im fully somali to my knowledge, could this be an unsampled extra hunter gatherer ancestry that i have more of?
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drobbah
08-25-2020, 09:48 AM
Where is your family from and which clans do your parents and grandparents belong too?

afbarwaaqo
08-25-2020, 10:49 AM
Where is your family from and which clans do your parents and grandparents belong too?

My dad is habargidir sacad born in qabridahar ethiopia but his dad is from galmudug afbarwaaqo
My mom is habargidir ayr and she’s from mogadishu
My paternal grandmother is mudulood udeejeen and she’s from jawiil hiiraan
My maternal grandmother is from a small minority clan called dangaale which is under habargidir and she’s from cadale middle shabelle
I also have a bit of murusade and sheekhaal and a small bit of majeerteen in me and I may have some rahanweyn too

drobbah
08-25-2020, 01:04 PM
I have 11.5% mota which is more than you and as far as I know genealogically I have no ancestry from Ethio ethnicities although Western Somaliland clans and agriculturalist Ethio Somalis (Geri,Bartered,Abaskuul etc) were probably impacted minorly by Eastern Oromos (Jaarso,Akisho etc) so the results makes sense.

You on the other hand come from the south far from any Ethio influence so it's indeed strange you are within range of us Ethio/W.Somaliland Somalis and Kenyan Somalis.

afbarwaaqo
08-25-2020, 01:21 PM
I have 11.5% mota which is more than you and as far as I know genealogically I have no ancestry from Ethio ethnicities although Western Somaliland clans and agriculturalist Ethio Somalis (Geri,Bartered,Abaskuul etc) were probably impacted minorly by Eastern Oromos (Jaarso,Akisho etc) so the results makes sense.

You on the other hand come from the south far from any Ethio influence so it's indeed strange you are within range of us Ethio/W.Somaliland Somalis and Kenyan Somalis.

yeah man its very interesting how i acquired that much ETH_4500BP i believe if it got it from an ethiopian ancestor a bit of Yemenite_Al_Jawf would've shown up in my runs but i got 0% of it which leads me to believe that it could be extra unsampled hunter gatherer ancestry related to mota, i believe theres been excavation done in Buur Heybe (bay region) and the remains of pre-cushitic hunter gatherers have been found so i believe the extra ETH_4500BP % that i have may come from these people

drobbah
08-25-2020, 01:30 PM
My mother for example scores 3% and my father between 8-9% but through random recombination I inherited 11% and lower Dinka ancestry.There's many possibilities as to why you are at 10% including what you mentioned in the post above but what's clear is that you are pure Somali walaal!

afbarwaaqo
08-25-2020, 01:45 PM
My mother for example scores 3% and my father between 8-9% but through random recombination I inherited 11% and lower Dinka ancestry.There's many possibilities as to why you are at 10% including what you mentioned in the post above but what's clear is that you are pure Somali walaal!

Facts walaal :beerchug: I just wish we had a somali hunter gatherer sample available, hopefully we will in the near future

Atlas
08-25-2020, 02:13 PM
Forgive my ignorance, but are there still small pockets today of groups with significant hunter-gatherer ancestry living near or with Somalis? I've never heard of such, so I assumed that they were absorbed to a small degree and pushed out of the area so long ago that while many Somalis today may have a little ancestry from these groups, it's relatively small compared to the rest of their makeup.

afbarwaaqo
08-25-2020, 02:40 PM
Forgive my ignorance, but are there still small pockets today of groups with significant hunter-gatherer ancestry living near or with Somalis? I've never heard of such, so I assumed that they were absorbed to a small degree and pushed out of the area so long ago that while many Somalis today may have a little ancestry from these groups, it's relatively small compared to the rest of their makeup.

no recorded somali group in somalia or near somalia today has any huge amounts of hunter gatherer ancestry they've all been absorbed by our early ancestors, the highest that i've seen from a somali have been from a somali kenyan that had 14% but that may have been due to some somali kenyans allegedly having some southern cushitic ancestry that had a high hunter gatherer % which boosted their hunter gatherer ancestry, this is just a hypothesis

Mnemonics
08-25-2020, 03:28 PM
Most of the Mota affinity produced in G25 in Somalis is a result of the PCA compensating for the slight West African ancestry in Dinka. If you use the Sudanese samples for your African the Mota disappears from almost all Somalis except for the Ayodo samples.

ThaYamamoto
08-25-2020, 04:28 PM
Most of the Mota affinity produced in G25 in Somalis is a result of the PCA compensating for the slight West African ancestry in Dinka. If you use the Sudanese samples for your African the Mota disappears from almost all Somalis except for the Ayodo samples.

This is the content I'm here for lol, what about using Mursi?

afbarwaaqo
08-25-2020, 04:51 PM
Most of the Mota affinity produced in G25 in Somalis is a result of the PCA compensating for the slight West African ancestry in Dinka. If you use the Sudanese samples for your African the Mota disappears from almost all Somalis except for the Ayodo samples.

i tried that and it actually increased the mota
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gihanga.rwanda
08-25-2020, 06:00 PM
My dad is habargidir sacad born in qabridahar ethiopia but his dad is from galmudug afbarwaaqo
My mom is habargidir ayr and she’s from mogadishu
My paternal grandmother is mudulood udeejeen and she’s from jawiil hiiraan
My maternal grandmother is from a small minority clan called dangaale which is under habargidir and she’s from cadale middle shabelle
I also have a bit of murusade and sheekhaal and a small bit of majeerteen in me and I may have some rahanweyn too

This is impressive. Are all Somalis this knowledgeable about their clan affiliations? We have clans in Rwanda as well, 20 or so, but I can only tell you my parents’ paternal clans not my maternal or those of my grandparents or beyond.

afbarwaaqo
08-25-2020, 06:28 PM
This is impressive. Are all Somalis this knowledgeable about their clan affiliations? We have clans in Rwanda as well, 20 among Tutsis, but I can only tell you my parents’ paternal clans not my maternal or those of my grandparents or beyond.

thanks man and yea nearly all somali's are pretty well versed on their clan affiliations from lineage to ancestral location, and i had no idea that there were clans in Rwanda thanks for telling me, i was only aware of the ethnic groups

Advokaten19
08-25-2020, 06:33 PM
This is impressive. Are all Somalis this knowledgeable about their clan affiliations? We have clans in Rwanda as well, 20 among Tutsis, but I can only tell you my parentsí paternal clans not my maternal or those of my grandparents or beyond.

We know our our ancestors by name up to the 6th century, We have something called abtirsi which is somali for lineage tree

For an example by name could be abdi, my fathers name would be jamac, my grandfather would hassan, my great grandfather would be daud

My full name is also my lineage tree, My name and lineage tree would be Abdi Jamac Hassan Daud

Every child learns their full abtirsi as easy as possible up to their 25th or 40th ancestor in a straight line

Most also knows their maternal clan and their mothers abtirsi, Many know their maternal grandmother and paternal grandmothers clan if she is from other clans, Most know their maternal great grandmother and their paternal great grandmothers clan but often not their abtirsi

Most somalis know all the major clans of somali by name and their immediate major subclans, Which city they inhabit and the most famous persons from that clan

Clan is extremely important in Somalia, In politics, Marriage and regular life, Only islam trumps

Smarter and more intellectual persons often try to learn most clans abtirsi, where they live, their clan history, Who they fight and who they intermarry,

80 procent of ethnic somalis are members of 5 major clans, 4 are strict lineage based clans which means you can only be born to that clan and that they claim descent from a common ancestors

These 4 are, Darod, Isaaq, Hawiye, Dir

The 5th one is called Rahanweyn and is a confederation not made up by individuals and instead made up by lineage based clans who joined together to form Rahanweyn due to mostly being farmers instead of pastoralists and living in the same region

There exists several relatively large clans who are not members of those clans, Such as xawadle, galjecel, But these clans are actually share a common ancestors with a major clan

Xawadle for an example is the son of meyle samaale, and galjecel are the son of gardhere samaale, But share a common ancestor with hawiye, Hawiye are ithe son of rir samaale, Gardhere samaale, meyle samaale and irir samaale are the sons of samaale, Even though they are not hawiye these clans are intertwined with hawiye

sheekhal, asharaf, garre, ajuuran are relatively large clans but these clans are often stand alone clans and dont share a common ancestor with no other somali clan

Some clans have made up vital alliances with certain bigger clans and are know using there name, This practice is mostly used by hawiye which are assimilating sheekhal and ajuuran into tthe hawiye clans in a confederation type of situation, The sheekhal and ajuuran will maintain their own abtirsi but will also claim hawiye and share the same political goals as them and pay blood money with them and be considered a hawiye

Ethnic somalis makeup 95 of the greater somalia region

Small minorities such as bantu dont have a real clan system, they dont have abtirsi, But they have made up clan confederations made up of individuals with no common ancestors such as gosha, shambara, All somali bantus have know banded up together to form a single clan confederation called jareerweyne, but they are not really considered a clan and are isntead considered as a different ethnic group by most somalis

Benadiris which is somali creole ethnic group which is admixed with middle eastern, bantu and indian dna have clans, but are not as clan obessed as ethnic somalis they dont value clans as much

Mnemonics
08-25-2020, 06:35 PM
i tried that and it actually increased the mota
39162

Are you using the most recent datasheet samples? I would also avoid using the averages.

drobbah
08-25-2020, 06:58 PM
Most of the Mota affinity produced in G25 in Somalis is a result of the PCA compensating for the slight West African ancestry in Dinka. If you use the Sudanese samples for your African the Mota disappears from almost all Somalis except for the Ayodo samples.
You are right it disappears or extremely reduced in my case.Why is that? Do the Sudanese samples have minor Mota/Mota-like ancestry?

Target: Mother_scaled
Distance: 4.6364% / 0.04636404
54.8 Sudanese
37.0 Levant_Natufian
8.2 Yemenite_Al_Jawf

Target: Drobbah_scaled
Distance: 4.3929% / 0.04392877
53.4 Sudanese
39.4 Levant_Natufian
4.4 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
2.8 ETH_4500BP

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 4.7434% / 0.04743370
56.4 Sudanese
43.6 Levant_Natufian

Target: SOMALI15
Distance: 4.7599% / 0.04759856
54.4 Sudanese
45.6 Levant_Natufian

Target: Ayodo_41S
Distance: 4.0282% / 0.04028170
59.4 Sudanese
40.6 Levant_Natufian


Edit: The Sudanese do have Ethio-HG ancestry...that explains why our true HG percentages aren't showing.

39172

afbarwaaqo
08-25-2020, 07:10 PM
Are you using the most recent datasheet samples? I would also avoid using the averages.

i replaced the average samples with the datasheet samples and my mota decreased and the yemenite increased a bit while the other somali samples have nearly zero mota
39173

drobbah
08-25-2020, 07:20 PM
sheekhal, asharaf, garre, ajuuran are relatively large clans but these clans are often stand alone clans and dont share a common ancestor with no other somali clan

Small minorities such as bantu dont have a real clan system, they dont have abtirsi, But they have made up clan confederations made up of individuals with no common ancestors such as gosha, shambara, All somali bantus have know banded up together to form a single clan confederation called jareerweyne, but they are not really considered a clan and are isntead considered as a different ethnic group by most somalis

Benadiris which is somali creole ethnic group which is admixed with middle eastern, bantu and indian dna have clans, but are not as clan obessed as ethnic somalis they dont value clans as much

Garre are a Samaale clan according to their genealogy.Ashraaf and Sheekhaal/Shekhaash are mostly descended from medieval Islamic immigrants from Arabia/Asia judging from their dna results.There are minority clans that are culturally and linguistically Somali but are Oromo clans that live among the Somalis of Ethiopia and Somaliland such as the Jaarso and Akisho who belong to the Afran Qallo clan confederation according to the Oromos themselves although these groups like to claim Dir.In Jabuuti you also have the Afar minority and they also have a clan system similar to Somalis.

afbarwaaqo
08-25-2020, 07:21 PM
You are right it disappears or extremely reduced in my case.Why is that? Do the Sudanese samples have minor Mota/Mota-like ancestry?

Target: Mother_scaled
Distance: 4.6364% / 0.04636404
54.8 Sudanese
37.0 Levant_Natufian
8.2 Yemenite_Al_Jawf

Target: Drobbah_scaled
Distance: 4.3929% / 0.04392877
53.4 Sudanese
39.4 Levant_Natufian
4.4 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
2.8 ETH_4500BP

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 4.7434% / 0.04743370
56.4 Sudanese
43.6 Levant_Natufian

Target: SOMALI15
Distance: 4.7599% / 0.04759856
54.4 Sudanese
45.6 Levant_Natufian

Target: Ayodo_41S
Distance: 4.0282% / 0.04028170
59.4 Sudanese
40.6 Levant_Natufian


Edit: The Sudanese do have Ethio-HG ancestry...that explains why our true HG percentages aren't showing.

39172

yeah unless we find a 100% nilo-saharan sample we wont know our HG percentage

Deftextra
08-25-2020, 07:23 PM
I was always impressed by how my uncle (who is Ajuraan) was able to recite his paternal ancestors names to god knows how many generations. I remember him randomly meeting another Ajuraan and they just start reciting their paternal ancestors names until they found a common ancestor.

drobbah
08-25-2020, 07:25 PM
i replaced the average samples with the datasheet samples and my mota decreased and the yemenite increased a bit while the other somali samples have nearly zero mota
39173
Adding the Sudanese instead of Dinka decreased my mother's Yemeni percentages and mine (9% vs 8.4%, 5.8% vs 4.4%).Sudanese 11 sample has both minor Natufian and Arab ancestry so it might be depressing the Arab ancestry in the other Somalis

Mnemonics
08-25-2020, 08:49 PM
The Sudanese have no Mota-like HG ancestry, some of the Dinka that have Yoruba like admixture that causes Mota like admixture to be added to compensate for the pull westward. Mota compensates for this pull because most of its ancestry is Sudanese-like.

Advokaten19
08-26-2020, 11:19 AM
Garre is a confederation of two clans

One is dir, the daughter of garre married a dir man named quran mohamed hinftire, There children also claimed garre due to maternal links and were accepted as one

The other is a paternal descended group directly from garre

Garre only recently claimed samaale falsely

Those who live in southern somalia claim rahanweyn

Those who live in ethiopia is independent

those who live in nfd claim hawiye

drobbah
08-26-2020, 03:54 PM
It seems using individual samples Mnemonics suggested yields better results on G25.It also seems that Somalis prefer Al Bayda over Al Jawf and causes the Yemenite ancestry to increase, my father who usually scores zero and samples similar to him are all of a sudden getting Yemeni percentages.Tthe HG ancestry seems to almost disappear except in a handful of folks including myself but those individuals seem to be mostly Kenyan Somalis which isn't shocking.

Surprisingly this the closest Somali fit I've seen when running an ancient model without the PNs:

Target: Somali_Kenya:Ayodo_69S
Distance: 2.9998% / 0.02999813
56.4 Sudanese
26.6 Levant_Natufian
7.2 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
6.6 Levant_PPNB
3.2 ETH_4500BP

Family results
Target: Mother_scaled
Distance: 4.5789% / 0.04578929
54.4 Sudanese
33.8 Levant_Natufian
11.4 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Drobbah_scaled
Distance: 4.3225% / 0.04322477
52.0 Sudanese
33.0 Levant_Natufian
9.8 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
3.6 ETH_4500BP
1.6 MAR_EN

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 4.7196% / 0.04719554
55.8 Sudanese
37.8 Levant_Natufian
5.0 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
1.4 MAR_EN

Somalis
Target: Somali:SOMALI7
Distance: 4.2409% / 0.04240862
54.8 Sudanese
33.2 Levant_Natufian
11.6 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.4 ETH_4500BP

Target: Somali:SOMALI6
Distance: 4.0295% / 0.04029465
53.4 Sudanese
26.8 Levant_Natufian
19.8 Yemenite_Al_Bayda

Target: Somali:SOMALI4
Distance: 3.7446% / 0.03744647
53.0 Sudanese
26.8 Levant_Natufian
16.0 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
3.8 MAR_Taforalt
0.4 ETH_4500BP

Target: Somali:SOMALI3
Distance: 4.1787% / 0.04178715
53.6 Sudanese
38.2 Levant_Natufian
6.8 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
1.4 ETH_4500BP

Target: Somali:SOMALI2
Distance: 4.8043% / 0.04804307
55.0 Sudanese
37.4 Levant_Natufian
7.6 Yemenite_Al_Bayda

Target: Somali:SOMALI15
Distance: 4.7416% / 0.04741559
54.4 Sudanese
42.8 Levant_Natufian
2.8 Yemenite_Al_Bayda

Target: Somali:SOMALI14
Distance: 3.7797% / 0.03779737
53.0 Sudanese
27.6 Levant_Natufian
18.2 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
1.0 ETH_4500BP
0.2 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Somali:SOMALI13
Distance: 4.0315% / 0.04031545
54.2 Sudanese
28.2 Levant_Natufian
15.4 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
1.2 ETH_4500BP
1.0 MAR_EN

Target: Somali:SOMALI12
Distance: 4.3955% / 0.04395508
54.8 Sudanese
32.2 Levant_Natufian
13.0 Yemenite_Al_Bayda

Target: Somali:SOMALI1
Distance: 4.3957% / 0.04395652
54.4 Sudanese
36.2 Levant_Natufian
6.2 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
3.2 MAR_EN


Kenyan Somalis
Target: Somali_Kenya:Ayodo_21S
Distance: 4.1836% / 0.04183641
54.2 Sudanese
26.4 Levant_Natufian
12.4 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
5.0 ETH_4500BP
2.0 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Somali_Kenya:Ayodo_23S
Distance: 4.6489% / 0.04648884
56.0 Sudanese
40.6 Levant_Natufian
1.8 ETH_4500BP
1.6 Yemenite_Al_Bayda

Target: Somali_Kenya:Ayodo_34S
Distance: 3.7219% / 0.03721946
53.4 Sudanese
26.6 Levant_Natufian
16.2 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
2.2 ETH_4500BP
1.6 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Somali_Kenya:Ayodo_35S
Distance: 4.7922% / 0.04792211
57.8 Sudanese
37.4 Levant_Natufian
4.2 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.6 ETH_4500BP

Target: Somali_Kenya:Ayodo_40S
Distance: 4.2751% / 0.04275057
55.8 Sudanese
31.2 Levant_Natufian
13.0 Yemenite_Al_Bayda

Target: Somali_Kenya:Ayodo_41S
Distance: 4.0197% / 0.04019697
59.4 Sudanese
40.6 Levant_Natufian

Target: Somali_Kenya:Ayodo_43S
Distance: 4.0857% / 0.04085705
47.2 Sudanese
35.2 Levant_Natufian
8.6 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
5.8 ETH_4500BP
3.2 MAR_EN

Target: Somali_Kenya:Ayodo_52S
Distance: 3.8374% / 0.03837449
60.0 Sudanese
32.6 Levant_Natufian
6.6 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.8 Levant_PPNB

Target: Somali_Kenya:Ayodo_61S
Distance: 4.6066% / 0.04606581
49.4 Sudanese
41.2 Levant_Natufian
7.8 ETH_4500BP
1.6 Yemenite_Al_Bayda

Target: Somali_Kenya:Ayodo_69S
Distance: 2.9998% / 0.02999813
56.4 Sudanese
26.6 Levant_Natufian
7.2 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
6.6 Levant_PPNB
3.2 ETH_4500BP


Oromos in comparison
Target: Borana_Oromo:OROMO1
Distance: 3.4854% / 0.03485393
29.8 Levant_Natufian
28.0 ETH_4500BP
27.6 Sudanese
7.0 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
6.8 Dinka
0.8 MAR_EN

Target: Borana_Oromo:OROMO3
Distance: 3.8205% / 0.03820487
39.0 Sudanese
32.0 Levant_Natufian
16.8 ETH_4500BP
11.6 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.6 MAR_EN

Target: Borana_Oromo:OROMO2
Distance: 3.4271% / 0.03427095
41.2 Sudanese
32.0 Levant_Natufian
15.4 ETH_4500BP
10.4 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
1.0 MAR_EN

Target: Borana_Oromo:OROMO16
Distance: 3.0839% / 0.03083912
31.0 Sudanese
29.6 ETH_4500BP
25.4 Levant_Natufian
13.8 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.2 MAR_EN

Target: Ethio_Semitic_Oromo:OROMO15
Distance: 2.8915% / 0.02891488
38.2 Sudanese
25.0 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
24.8 Levant_Natufian
12.0 ETH_4500BP

Target: Ethio_Semitic_Oromo:OROMO12
Distance: 4.1506% / 0.04150613
37.0 Sudanese
28.4 Levant_Natufian
27.8 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
6.8 ETH_4500BP

Target: Ethio_Semitic_Oromo:OROMO11
Distance: 3.5710% / 0.03571014
36.6 Sudanese
28.8 Levant_Natufian
25.2 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
9.4 ETH_4500BP

GabrielZelalem
08-26-2020, 04:25 PM
I have 11.5% mota which is more than you and as far as I know genealogically I have no ancestry from Ethio ethnicities although Western Somaliland clans and agriculturalist Ethio Somalis (Geri,Bartered,Abaskuul etc) were probably impacted minorly by Eastern Oromos (Jaarso,Akisho etc) so the results makes sense.

You on the other hand come from the south far from any Ethio influence so it's indeed strange you are within range of us Ethio/W.Somaliland Somalis and Kenyan Somalis.

Same as you, but Jaarso and Akisho are both Madaxweyne Dir, so Somali and not Oromo.

Mnemonics
08-26-2020, 06:00 PM
I would also suggest using only I1072 for the Natufian sample, it is the only decent coverage Natufian sample and lacks the Iran_N affinity that is in I0861.

drobbah
08-26-2020, 08:03 PM
I would also suggest using only I1072 for the Natufian sample, it is the only decent coverage Natufian sample and lacks the Iran_N affinity that is in I0861.
Without that Natufian sample Ethio_HG ancestry increases not by much and Yemenite-like ancestry increases drastically even more.

Target: Mother_scaled
Distance: 4.6353% / 0.04635252
54.4 Sudanese
27.6 Levant_Natufian
17.2 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Drobbah_scaled
Distance: 4.3714% / 0.04371389
50.4 Sudanese
27.4 Levant_Natufian
15.0 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
5.6 ETH_4500BP
1.6 MAR_EN

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 4.7786% / 0.04778576
53.8 Sudanese
31.2 Levant_Natufian
11.0 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
2.4 ETH_4500BP
1.6 MAR_EN


The Borana-like Oromo samples are getting huge amounts of Ethio_HG with levels similar to the Wolayta.It seems the Ethio_HG in these Ethio groups and Ethio/W.SL & Kenyan Somalis is genuine while the interior/coastal Somalis have none at all or perhaps Somalis have HG ancestry from a different source?


Target: Ethiopian_Oromo:OROMO1
Distance: 3.6759% / 0.03675930
31.4 ETH_4500BP
31.0 Sudanese
19.8 Levant_Natufian
16.4 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.8 MAR_EN
0.6 Dinka


Target: Ethiopian_Oromo:OROMO16
Distance: 3.0917% / 0.03091682
30.6 ETH_4500BP
30.2 Sudanese
23.6 Levant_Natufian
15.4 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.2 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Ethiopian_Wolayta:WOLAYTA7
Distance: 3.1744% / 0.03174389
32.8 ETH_4500BP
30.2 Sudanese
24.4 Levant_Natufian
12.6 Yemenite_Al_Bayda

Target: Ethiopian_Wolayta:WOLAYTA5
Distance: 3.2739% / 0.03273916
34.8 Sudanese
24.0 ETH_4500BP
21.4 Levant_Natufian
18.4 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
1.4 MAR_Taforalt

afbarwaaqo
08-27-2020, 03:58 AM
I would also suggest using only I1072 for the Natufian sample, it is the only decent coverage Natufian sample and lacks the Iran_N affinity that is in I0861.

which specific sample would you suggest using for the proto-nilotic ancestry of somalis?

Advokaten19
08-27-2020, 04:26 AM
No my friend they are far from it,

They are falsely claiming it

They only claimed such things when they fell off with Geri Kombe clan

They are actually afran qallo oromos who willingly tried to assimilate into the Somalis

Mnemonics
08-27-2020, 04:33 AM
Sudanese7 is the best for modeling the Nilotic ancestry as it seems pristinely Nilotic, but it is key to note that these samples are pretty low coverage.

afbarwaaqo
08-29-2020, 02:28 AM
is awale still an active member? im curious if he can help make sense of this result

Thorfin
08-29-2020, 02:45 AM
I cant add much to this discussion as a layman, but can I just ask where you were able to check genetic distances between yourself and populations?

afbarwaaqo
08-29-2020, 08:38 AM
I cant add much to this discussion as a layman, but can I just ask where you were able to check genetic distances between yourself and populations?

i used the vahaduo calculator
https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/

here's where i got the population coordinates
https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/07/getting-most-out-of-global25_12.html

Thorfin
08-29-2020, 05:52 PM
Thanks, saxib. I finally found out how to do it last night, only to find out my battered laptop can't run such a simple programme. I email Davidski and I'll pay him the $12 to do it.

Mnemonics
08-30-2020, 01:42 AM
Without that Natufian sample Ethio_HG ancestry increases not by much and Yemenite-like ancestry increases drastically even more.

Target: Mother_scaled
Distance: 4.6353% / 0.04635252
54.4 Sudanese
27.6 Levant_Natufian
17.2 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Drobbah_scaled
Distance: 4.3714% / 0.04371389
50.4 Sudanese
27.4 Levant_Natufian
15.0 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
5.6 ETH_4500BP
1.6 MAR_EN

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 4.7786% / 0.04778576
53.8 Sudanese
31.2 Levant_Natufian
11.0 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
2.4 ETH_4500BP
1.6 MAR_EN


The Borana-like Oromo samples are getting huge amounts of Ethio_HG with levels similar to the Wolayta.It seems the Ethio_HG in these Ethio groups and Ethio/W.SL & Kenyan Somalis is genuine while the interior/coastal Somalis have none at all or perhaps Somalis have HG ancestry from a different source?


Target: Ethiopian_Oromo:OROMO1
Distance: 3.6759% / 0.03675930
31.4 ETH_4500BP
31.0 Sudanese
19.8 Levant_Natufian
16.4 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.8 MAR_EN
0.6 Dinka


Target: Ethiopian_Oromo:OROMO16
Distance: 3.0917% / 0.03091682
30.6 ETH_4500BP
30.2 Sudanese
23.6 Levant_Natufian
15.4 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.2 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Ethiopian_Wolayta:WOLAYTA7
Distance: 3.1744% / 0.03174389
32.8 ETH_4500BP
30.2 Sudanese
24.4 Levant_Natufian
12.6 Yemenite_Al_Bayda

Target: Ethiopian_Wolayta:WOLAYTA5
Distance: 3.2739% / 0.03273916
34.8 Sudanese
24.0 ETH_4500BP
21.4 Levant_Natufian
18.4 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
1.4 MAR_Taforalt

These models are much more in line with what I am getting with qpadm. Qpadm seems to imply that that there has been some Levant_BA-like admixture in Somalis that is entirely absent from the Tanzania pastoralists and Masai, which I seem to have a hard time replicating in G25.

I8904 from the Kokurmatakore cairn burial is also showing this Levant_BA-like affinity but a bit less than me and around the same amount as Somali.DG.

afbarwaaqo
08-30-2020, 10:29 AM
is there any other ancient samples closely related to mota?

maroco
08-31-2020, 02:33 PM
Do you mind sharing your cords I’ll run you and you need to avoid using some of the African samples as their is an overlap

afbarwaaqo
08-31-2020, 04:42 PM
Do you mind sharing your cords I’ll run you and you need to avoid using some of the African samples as their is an overlap

Yea sure here’s my scaled one
Afbarwaaqo,-0.310737,0.092413,-0.026021,-0.067184,0.004308,-0.034582,-0.022326,-0.002308,0.12435,-0.076721,-0.013641,-0.013638,0.001338,0.00055,0.023615,-0.020817,0.014864,0.00076,0.008296,0.001126,0.0061 14,0.010634,0.005669,-0.003253,0.000239

maroco
08-31-2020, 05:03 PM
Yea sure here’s my scaled one
Afbarwaaqo,-0.310737,0.092413,-0.026021,-0.067184,0.004308,-0.034582,-0.022326,-0.002308,0.12435,-0.076721,-0.013641,-0.013638,0.001338,0.00055,0.023615,-0.020817,0.014864,0.00076,0.008296,0.001126,0.0061 14,0.010634,0.005669,-0.003253,0.000239

My friends Iron Age model

Target: Afbarwaaqo
Distance: 2.3241% / 0.02324126
54.2 East_African_Pastoralist
43.2 Ethiopian_Highland_Farmer
2.2 Numidian
0.4 Amazonian_Amerindian_Manioc-Farmer

I’ll fix a proper Neolithic model for you I need some time

afbarwaaqo
08-31-2020, 08:18 PM
My friends Iron Age model

Target: Afbarwaaqo
Distance: 2.3241% / 0.02324126
54.2 East_African_Pastoralist
43.2 Ethiopian_Highland_Farmer
2.2 Numidian
0.4 Amazonian_Amerindian_Manioc-Farmer

I’ll fix a proper Neolithic model for you I need some time

thanks man

NetNomad
09-04-2020, 10:21 AM
thanks man

Congrats on the 23andMe results afbarwaaqo

The next test you should do is DanteLabs WGS. Last year they lowered it to as little as $180 in November. Most likely they will do it again this year.

It would be interesting to see a Sacad Hawiye FullY, then we have good Y data on the Isaaq, Darod, and Hawiye.

afbarwaaqo
09-05-2020, 04:47 AM
Congrats on the 23andMe results afbarwaaqo

The next test you should do is DanteLabs WGS. Last year they lowered it to as little as $180 in November. Most likely they will do it again this year.

It would be interesting to see a Sacad Hawiye FullY, then we have good Y data on the Isaaq, Darod, and Hawiye.

thanks bro ill definitely purchase a WGS kit soon

afbarwaaqo
09-10-2020, 10:03 PM
i used all unscaled coordinates and received some off the wall results, the fit improved but the mota drastically increased, can somebody help explain why the unscaled coordinates gave me this result?
39499

drobbah
02-06-2021, 02:16 PM
Same as you, but Jaarso and Akisho are both Madaxweyne Dir, so Somali and not Oromo.
I have been reading extensively the last few months on the Oromos.It is quite clear that both of them are Oromos clans with the Akichu themselves being an ancient branch of the Oromo people.The Jaarso are Afran Qallo (Harar area Oromos) from the Dagoo branch.
43092

GabrielZelalem
02-08-2021, 01:18 AM
I have been reading extensively the last few months on the Oromos.It is quite clear that both of them are Oromos clans with the Akichu themselves being an ancient branch of the Oromo people.The Jaarso are Afran Qallo (Harar area Oromos) from the Dagoo branch.
43092

Ngl I’m only knowledgeable of what I was told by my parents. So maybe

drobbah
02-08-2021, 02:09 AM
Ngl I’m only knowledgeable of what I was told by my parents. So maybe
The Akisho (ones that live among Somalis) and Jaarso like propagating now and fabricating that they are Dir to hide their origins since Somalis are very xenophobic towards them.There are two Akichu groups, one that are Somalianized by my Jibriil Abokor clan (Akisho) and others (Akichu) that still live among their Oromo clansmen.Jaarso were firmly Oromo aswell and were once subservient/clients to their neighbouring Daarood Geri Koombe clan and thats how many became Somalianized.Some Jaarso also live among Jibriil Abokor in Gabiley district alongside some farming families of the actually Somali Dir Gurgure (they dominate Dir Dawa alongside Cisse).Jibriil Abokor openly married their women and they married ours, we weren't as cruel to them the way the Geri were cruel to the Jaarso but that might just be because they never had the numbers to threaten our position in Tog wajaale plains of Ethiopia/SL unlike the Jaarso who are numerous and are still in contact witht their Oromo clansmen (other Afran Qollo clans)

The other Akichu are on the western border of the Afran Qallo territory if you look closely.
https://i.imgur.com/UGGk97G.jpg
43142
https://i.imgur.com/BKvEMea.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/G1HmqXD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/q1tVv3g.jpg

GabrielZelalem
02-08-2021, 05:16 AM
Interesting. I guess these Oromos were already substantially Somali in terms of ancestry when they got assimilated and inter married with the locals of the region. I’m from all the tribes that are said to be part oromo apparently (lol) and DNA-wise I don’t seem to be any more Ethiopian admixed than your average Somali. But I really don’t know for sure. On g25 i do have a closer distance to certain Oromos than other Somalis and Kenyan Somalis

drobbah
02-08-2021, 05:46 AM
My mother ( she's Garxajis) is half Jibriil Abokor herself and she doesn't show any Mota.I never claimed every Jibriil Abokor has it but I do think a significant portion of my clan carries such ancestry.My father on qpadm gets 8% mota from the results I was sent and I'm around 4-5% Mota which makes me around 10-15% Borana Oromo-like and my father would be between 20-25% Borana Oromo.I suspect my paternal grandmother would be genetically almost 50% Borana-like despite being a mix between Baha Cumar (Jibriil Abokor) & Bah Gob for many generations

10enacious
02-16-2021, 01:20 PM
Hi all

I believe I have the most mota like ancestry as seen below
As for my background I’m ciidagale. Family is mainly from Hargeisa and Aware in the Somali region of Ethiopia. I also scored 0.7% peninsular Arab on 23andMe with the rest being Somali

Target: 10enacious_scaled
Distance: 6.9067% / 0.06906706
43.0 Dinka
38.2 Levant_PPNB
13.8 ETH_4500BP
4.2 MAR_Taforalt
0.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

https://i.imgur.com/v095MvO.png

drobbah
02-16-2021, 01:52 PM
Hi all

I believe I have the most mota like ancestry as seen below
As for my background I’m ciidagale. Family is mainly from Hargeisa and Aware in the Somali region of Ethiopia. I also scored 0.7% peninsular Arab on 23andMe with the rest being Somali

Target: 10enacious_scaled
Distance: 6.9067% / 0.06906706
43.0 Dinka
38.2 Levant_PPNB
13.8 ETH_4500BP
4.2 MAR_Taforalt
0.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N


You should use Sudanese7 as Dinka + PPNB tend to inflate your Mota score.My mother's is clanwise an Ciidigale from deep in the Hawd (her paternal great grandfather migrated to Yemen) with a Sacad Muuse mother and she seems very different from you in terms of Mota ancestry.You seem like a more Eurasian version of me which is weird...is your mother CG as well or is she from the agricultural areas of Ethiopia/Western Somaliland?

With Dinka

Target: Mother_scaled
Distance: 6.6154% / 0.06615418
47.2 Dinka
35.4 Levant_PPNB
8.8 MAR_Taforalt
7.6 ETH_4500BP
1.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Drobbah_scaled
Distance: 6.2518% / 0.06251785
41.8 Dinka
32.8 Levant_PPNB
14.2 ETH_4500BP
10.2 MAR_Taforalt
1.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N



With the more pristine Sudanese7 sample

Target: Mother_scaled
Distance: 6.0015% / 0.06001472
54.6 SUDANESE7
37.2 Levant_PPNB
8.2 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Drobbah_scaled
Distance: 5.7485% / 0.05748454
48.8 SUDANESE7
34.8 Levant_PPNB
9.4 MAR_Taforalt
7.0 ETH_4500BP




Could you post results with Sudanese7?

10enacious
02-16-2021, 02:36 PM
Target: 10enacious_scaled
Distance: 6.3139% / 0.06313897
51.4 SUDANESE7
39.6 Levant_PPNB
5.2 ETH_4500BP
3.8 MAR_Taforalt

All 4 of my grandparents are ciidagale but I have Arap,Ogaden and Sacad muuse great grandparents

drobbah
02-16-2021, 03:31 PM
Target: 10enacious_scaled
Distance: 6.3139% / 0.06313897
51.4 SUDANESE7
39.6 Levant_PPNB
5.2 ETH_4500BP
3.8 MAR_Taforalt

All 4 of my grandparents are ciidagale but I have Arap,Ogaden and Sacad muuse great grandparents
That's probably higher mota than the majority of people from your clan but you don't have higher mota than me or Somalis who have a history of admixture with Oromo groups

drobbah
02-16-2021, 03:40 PM
You seem relatively as Eurasian as my mother but the Mota in you makes you plot away from her.I wonder where your mota came from, maybe it was through both your Sacad Muuse and Ogaden great grandparents.

https://i.imgur.com/VwCutf6.jpg

Sol01
03-05-2021, 11:03 PM
How does one take these autosomal tests? I'm one of the Somali T-L208 on yfull.

Atlas
03-06-2021, 12:03 AM
How does one take these autosomal tests? I'm one of the Somali T-L208 on yfull.

You would take one of the regular commercial DNA tests, e.g. 23andMe, AncestryDNA etc, before sending your autosomal file with $12 (which you can do via paypal) for your G25 coordinates to Davidski at [email protected] You will usually get your G25 coordinates within a day or so, then you can ask Angoliga to add you to the PCA plot and some other users to help out with modelling your ancestry.

Sol01
03-06-2021, 02:02 PM
Ah okay thanks

Sol01
03-07-2021, 10:06 AM
Update


Target: Abdi_scaled
Distance: 7.0087% / 0.07008718
45.2 Dinka
37.6 Levant_PPNB
10.6 ETH_4500BP
6.6 MAR_Taforalt

Saeed
05-29-2022, 06:26 AM
I am also Habar Gidir and I get almost no mota (0.2%)

How much does the average Somali get?