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View Full Version : Involuntary celibacy & violence: a causal link?



apophis99942
08-27-2012, 08:21 PM
Does anyone know if there is a causal relationship between the so-called "incel" condition and a person's susceptibility to violence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_celibacy


There is very little sexological study regarding involuntary celibacy. Prior to a self-directed study on modern involuntary celibacy initiated in 1998 by researchers from Georgia State University, there were quite literally zero publicly-searchable research-based sources on the phenomenon. Even the 1998 study was only started once a member of an online discussion group for involuntary celibates inquired about current research on the subject.[19] The study, Involuntary celibacy: A life course analysis,[1] was published in 2001 in the Journal of Sex Research, produced by the Society for the Scientific Study of Sexuality. A news article reporting on the study indicated that involuntary celibacy can lead to anger and depression.[20] Involuntary celibacy: A life course analysis has also been included in an anthology of scholarly literature.[21]

Very little research has been published on involuntary celibacy, and few statistics are available, although it is finding its way onto university syllabi.[22][23] There has not been a more widespread study undertaken by sexologists or other sexuality scientists that could give rise to empirical data. Most of what is published scientifically and academically on the subject of celibacy focuses on voluntary and medical celibacy. Given this shortfall, incel does not appear to be taken seriously by scientific and academic communities.

Phil75231
08-28-2012, 04:33 AM
I think the wikipedia quote speaks for itself - we cannot know for sure. All we have are speculations and nothing more. I can tell you my own though.

I don't think incel itself is a problem only to the extent that the person actually desires mating partners. The bigger problem are, IMO:

(a) The media (especially pop entertainment and talk shows) throw sex in our face so much that it artificially inflates our desire to have sex. Thousands of hours of media exposure before you are 18 years old cannot help but shape your mind to think in certain pathways, and it is usually very hard to overcome that (for the proper imagery, think of a heavy truck stuck in tire grooves on an ill-maintained highway). Once an idea takes deep root in the popular culture, especially if people scorn those who oppose that prevailing meme, it is very hard for that society to extract itself from that idea*

(b) Mainstream society's scorn of incels, seemingly believing it's not "normal" or "natural", or otherwise put a value (or at least a respectworthiness) judgment on such people. In other words, the Sexual Revolution over the past two decades simply replaced one tyrannical idea (judgmentalism against 'whores') with another (judgmentalism against 'incels'). I don't think that's what the sexual revolution is supposed to be all about. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" comes to mind here.

There's nothing about incel that necessarily makes a person unlikable. No correlation with lying, cheating, stealing, and other rightfully stigmatized behaviors and acts. Given this, I've got bigger fish to fry than worrying about a person's level of sexual or romantic success.


*Economic Development and Public Policy scholar Richard Florida says this is a major reason why former boom areas in one era become depressed in later eras (Pittsburgh, and the Lake Eire basin were the "Silicon Valley" of the early and middle Industrial Era. Yet, for all their resources, they could not make the jump into the Digital Era. They were so trapped in corporate "Organization Man" mentalities of the 40s and 50s that they drove away creative, independent thinkers from these places. By contrast, San Francisco Bay, Seattle, and Austin especially proved open to new ideas that did not fit the Industrial Era's playbook. Hence, these new economic boom centers surpassed Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Buffalo, etc. in economic importance to our nation. The reason is simple: The Old Industrial Cities were (and largely still are) trapped by the success of their own past; which meant new ideas and innovations shifted to other places. Within the American South, this is also why Atlanta took over New Orleans's role of "Queen City of the South" - as N.O. liked to style itself in earlier decades.

apophis99942
08-28-2012, 07:18 AM
Good points, Phil. It's a confusing issue, to say the least.

God Child
08-28-2012, 11:55 PM
Yeah, it really is a complex subject that needs to be further researched. But it's not an unexplored topic. There's a reason why the term "sexual frustration" exists. And if we look at the backgrounds of many rapists, pedophiles, etc... "involuntary celibacy" isn't a foreign subject. There's even data/evidence of such "violence" in the animal kingdom.

In many species, male dispersal (males leaving the group) occurs when younger males begin to mature. They're chased off so that they don't start trouble in the group. In some cases females disperse and for the same reason; to reduce violence and reproductive/sexual competition. Sex/reproduction are major components of all life. To be more frank, they are the primary functions of every living organism since life could not continue without it.

Yet despite that, we still find exceptions to the common reproductive behavior. In some populations cooperation has its perks, so you'll find some individuals sacrificing their reproductive chances for the better good of the group. Or in some cases, the "less fit" individual makes the best of it's environment and just contributes where it can. Just like these other animal species, humans exhibit a variety of behaviors and social systems as well. But like you guys stated before, it's a complex subject.

apophis99942
08-29-2012, 03:12 AM
I'd like to know how many high-functioning incels exist and if there are sex-based differences in their quantity.

God Child
08-29-2012, 04:03 AM
I think I would distinguish a category of "high-functioning" incels. I think such persons exist primarily because they successfully adapted to the loss of traditional marital structures in some modern countries. When breeding was important, you might notice that marriage was stricter, hence possibly fewer incels. Their vilification has a direct link to unnecessary political fears, even if high-functioning incels possibly have remarkable contributions to societies that they live in. I think that society might be misreading the existence of the involuntary celibate category as a sign of its own decline, when in fact it's more than likely IMO that most adult people need no prodding to continue breeding, because sex is already so ingrained in our internal programming.

Well society today is made up of a collection of smaller ethnicity/lineages/families/etc, so even though the human race is at no threat of extinction, smaller lineages are still at risk. Anything that goes against the production of progeny is not accepted or seen as "normal" in those groups. You can even apply these feelings to homosexuals. It's only the "high-functioning" individuals that are somewhat accepted. In the animal world (and even ours) it's the unpartnered female that is still deemed "acceptable". Males are often considered to be peculiar and therefore aren't trusted as much. If we translate these feeling to today's society, compare a homosexual male with in the working class with another gay writer/designer/musician/artist/etc making good money and being praised by fans. Imagine both are from the same community. You can be sure the rich/famous one will be more accepted, while the other will still be seen as "defective".

apophis99942
08-29-2012, 04:11 AM
Lol, you quoted me just as I started thinking that I had made a wrong turn somewhere. But what I was going to add to that statement is that incels, so-called, might sometimes be "made" by social rejection connected to biological factors outside of their own control, not social clumsiness as may often be assumed. It is my gut feeling that the opposite sex can innately sense these biological factors, too. I guess the problem is that there is no support network for involuntary celibates on the one hand and then on the other hand, there is not usually much incentive to come forward as being of this condition.

Phil mentioned a link between "whores" and "incels" but I would also submit that "incels" have been scapegoated as having been responsible for terrorism as well. The 9/11 ringleader is sometimes alleged to have been one, which doesn't help.

God Child
08-29-2012, 05:09 AM
Lol, you quoted me just as I started thinking that I had made a wrong turn somewhere. But what I was going to add to that statement is that incels, so-called, might sometimes be "made" by social rejection connected to biological factors outside of their own control, not social clumsiness as may often be assumed. It is my gut feeling that the opposite sex can innately sense these biological factors, too. I guess the problem is that there is no support network for involuntary celibates on the one hand and then on the other hand, there is not usually much incentive to come forward as being of this condition.

Phil mentioned a link between "whores" and "incels" but I would also submit that "incels" have been scapegoated as having been responsible for terrorism as well. The 9/11 ringleader is sometimes alleged to have been one, which doesn't help.

I agree. But it doesn't really matter what the cause may be (biological/environmental/individual behavior), society will still see them as "not normal". And if the "incel" is desiring sexual relations/etc and isn't able to get it, it can only impact the individual in a negative way.

apophis99942
08-29-2012, 05:20 AM
It's funny how they have drugs for heightening the sex drive but not necessarily depressing it, or so I think.


I agree. But it doesn't really matter what the cause may be (biological/environmental/individual behavior), society will still see them as "not normal". And if the "incel" is desiring sexual relations/etc and isn't able to get it, it can only impact the individual in a negative way.

God Child
08-29-2012, 05:26 AM
I believe there are meds to decrease it. Thought I remembered reading about some sex addict who was required to take them while in jail in order to keep him under control or something. Not sure.