View Full Version : Incomplete Y DNA test

09-03-2020, 02:51 PM
A male distant cousin volunteered to do a YSEQ DNA test for me but he backed out before the results were completed. I have a list of results he sent me,which I have researched in general but I don't know how to progress or if there is something fundamental still missing. I am unable to contact this relation and Yseq won't deal with me as I am not the owner. This is all I have to go on. Please can someone advise me on what more I can do? Am I now done for? I am female so can't do it myself. All I can discover is that the later DNA could be SCottish or Irish, which doesn't fit the paper trail tree that I know from 1750, which is Smith from Birmingham. Anyone with a bright idea please?
M9 G+
M343 A+
P312 A+
L51 A+
L21 G+
DF13 C+
Z39589 del+
DF49 A+
L1335 A-
DF41 T-
R1b-DF49 (including M222) North West Irish Panel processing
M222 A+
S659 A+
FGC4077 G-
A223 T-
FGC23742 G-
ZS8379 G-
A18726 C-
DF85 processing
S588 processing

I think I need a miracle to work it out. Many thanks for reading this far.

09-04-2020, 02:19 AM
The SNP panel was still in process so the results you’ve posted are only partial.

Your cousin was found positive for the M222 SNP, which is about a 4000-year-old SNP whose subbranches all split off from each other about 2100 years ago (those are date estimates from YFull). The SNP is commonly called the “Niall of the Nine Hostages” SNP because an early study suggested it was widespread in Ireland in areas ruled formerly by the O’Neills because it was originally spread by a prolific O’Neill like Niall (a legendary figure) supposedly was. That has unfortunately led to many people who are M222+ to believe they are directly descended from Niall when the SNP itself predates him by centuries and whether he even was M222+ (or even existed) is still unclear.

Anyway, the current tree structure under M222 is very large and includes over 800 major SNPs. The current tree structure in a one-page graphic looks like this https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AiZPZBvp_eeuEsyxMLIGj2KqrvuRQA-A which I’m posting mostly just to show it’s large, the one-page graphic has so many descendant branches that it is hard to read given the clustering of SNPs on the one-page view.

Unfortunately the YSEQ SNP panel testing was still exploring the sub-branches of M222 when you received those results; they probably now include whether he was positive for any downstream SNPs from M222 but your results don’t indicate that.

The upshot is that you’ve got results that end about 2000 years ago and only really give the ancient ancestry for your cousin, and aren’t of much use in determining his ancestry within genealogical times. With these results he probably matches thousands of men and he falls into a haplogroup that has its highest concentration in Ireland but also is found elsewhere in the British Isles and Europe so it’s not conclusive as to his more recent ancestry.

09-04-2020, 04:37 AM
R-M222 is only around 2500 YBP but is the largest predictable haplogroup that is mostly Irish. Around one year ago, I analyzed R-M222 where I created a prediction model
and charted around 35 % of the testers (SAPP was limited to around 500 testers then but can now handle 600 testers). But YSNPs without YSTRs are not very useful
as 75 % of branches are YSTR only based, so anyone who only tests YSNPs will be missing 75 % of branches. You need a minimum of Y67 markers which is included
in this summary (requires EXCEL):


The formula for the signature match is column K and the genetic distance from the
signature is found in column L. Column CB includes the binary logistic regression
model for R-M222 (using AcaStat).

I also, filtered 65 % of the testers and ran around 500 R-M222 testers through SAPP:

Input file:


(http://rcasey.net/DNA/Temp/SAPP_Input_20190813A.txt)HTML version of output chart:


However, S659 (aka DF105) is not a very recent branch and has
many branches below it.

09-04-2020, 12:50 PM
Thank you so much, Dave, you made that really clear and understandable. Sadly I am unable to go any further as this is all the information I was given before communications ceased. So, I am now scuppered, I presume and it isn't worth wasting any more time on as I don't have another Smith relative to do the test. I do appreciate your time. thanks again.

09-04-2020, 12:53 PM
Thank you Robert, it is very kind of you to go to this trouble. As you may read, I am no longer party to any other information and I don't have another male Smith relative. I notice you say mostly Irish, so even that is vague and undefining. I think I have to give up now and I'm gutted. I did an autosomal DNA and my papertrail tree is very good and matches well., just wanted to get an idea of my ancestry pre 1700. Never mind, there are mor things to worry about than my 25th great grandparents!! Thanks again. Elisabeth

09-05-2020, 03:31 PM
I think I replied to this in a wrong box. I just want to say thank you so much for your really clear answer. Sadly, I am not party to any more information and I had hoped that snippet would take me a little way. I think I need to forget about it and move on. I will just have to accept that this is as far as I get, that my ancestors came over here in a large wave of humanity about 2,00 years ago. Many thank for your time. regards Elisabeth

09-09-2020, 02:18 PM
I'm a member of M222 with Scottish ancestry. It's perfectly possible to have non-Irish ancestry for 1500y+ so you certainly can't assume the tester is 'Irish' down the paternal line due to being M222. He might have been in Ireland thousands of years ago. Most people who test M222+ are either Irish or Scottish but there are some in England without a traceable connection to those countries and they may never have either. S659 is the very dominant sub-branch and all we can see beyond that of interest is you aren't A223 which has a strong association with SW Scotland esp Ayrshire (a county of great interest to the Kennedys).

History of M222 at http://www.kennedydna.com/HistoryOfM222.pdf