View Full Version : R1b (ht35, z2103) English or Roman?

09-08-2020, 05:12 PM

09-08-2020, 05:48 PM
From that text:

Haplotype 35 As A Marker Of "Traditional" Celtic Origins

Many DYS393=12 haplotypes show their highest match frequencies in places like Turkey, Poland, Romania, Ukraine and the Caucasus. Sometimes the affinity with such regions is quite compelling. However, even if we accept an origin in, or a greater closeness to, samples in Eastern Europe or Western Asia, that does not necessarily dispel the assumption that these R1b haplotypes are fundamentally "Celtic". Indeed, ht35 haplotypes may ultimately be more "Celtic" than the indigenous ht15 R1b haplotypes of Britain. The strong showing of DYS393=12 R1b haplotypes in the Black Sea region may reflect merely the eastern wanderings of the Celts, who become known as Galatians when they settled in Turkey.

Lol, what nonsense is this?

09-09-2020, 05:49 PM

Is he claiming that the whole nomenclature is wrong?Is this possible?am I missing something?I never went "analyzing STRs" tier deep into this but this just seems unlikely to me.

09-10-2020, 05:07 PM
I've been considering the validity of this 2005 STR analysis. I have come to realize SNPs are (one and done mutations of the Genome) whereas STRs are relatively short term variations that can change over time and even revert back. Thus, calling into question this form of analysis. Here's some information quoted from various found sources:

There are a number of different kinds of mutations (changes in the genetic code) that can occur when DNA is copied within a cell and passed on to the next generation. Short-tandem repeats (STR's), also known as microsatellites, are the markers tested in most genealogical y-chromosome studies. STR's occur at specific locations on the y-chromosome, which are often referred to as loci, and are given names such as "DYS391." STR's occur when short segments of DNA sequences get repeated over and over along a portion of a chromosome. For example, DYS391 consists of repeats of the base sequence -GATA-. Once an STR exists, it may change by adding or subtracting a repeat or two during the replication process. Estimates of the frequency of changes range from less than 2 mutations per 1000 generations to over 7 per 1000 generations for each STR, depending on which marker. Thus over a long period of time, individuals will tend to have at least some differences in the values (number of repeats) on the various STR markers on their y-chromosome. If you look at 25 markers, there is about a 50% chance you will find at least 1 mutation in 9-10 generations (or, counting both up and down from the common ancestor, between yourself and a 4th cousin). DYS391 can have values ranging from 7 to 14 repeats, with 10 and 11 being common in populations with European ancestry. There have been over 200 STR markers identified on the y-chromosome, but not all are variable enough for genealogical purposes. Testing companies currently test between 10 and 43 markers.

Haplogroups and "clans." Another kind of mutation is a base substitution (single nucleotide polymorphism or SNP). A change to a given base is extremely rare compared to changes in STR's, and specific substitutions are believed to have occurred only once in human history. Thus all people who share a specific SNP value usually can trace it back to a mutation in a single ancestor. Consequently, SNP's can be used for broad anthropological studies of our ancestry, and have been used to create a "family tree" of the paternal heritage of all humankind.

How many SNPs are in the human genome?
They occur almost once in every 1,000 nucleotides on average, which means there are roughly 4 to 5 million SNPs in a person's genome. These variations may be unique or occur in many individuals; scientists have found more than 100 million SNPs in populations around the world.

09-11-2020, 08:43 PM
I don't post here much anymore, but "Ht35" is really antiquated and obsolete. It's from back in the old STRs-are-a-huge-deal days, when for some odd - very odd - reason it was thought there was some fundamental difference between "Ht35" and "Ht15". Turns out both are under L23 and not all that distant.

The link in that first post is to some really old crap.