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eolien
09-23-2020, 02:11 PM
My father:

Sephardic Jewish 95%
Ashkenazi Jewish 4%
Basque <1%


My mother

Sephardic Jewish 90%
Ashkenazi Jewish 4%
Southern Caucasia (Georgia) <4%
Malta & Sicily 3%


But ME

Sephardic Jewish 100% :(

passenger
09-23-2020, 02:52 PM
Interesting. How do they compare to the previous results?

As I posted in the big 3.0 results thread, my mother's results changed from 59% Ashkenazi, 27% Sephardic, 13% Southeast Europe and <2% West Middle East to the current: 81% Ashkenazi, 10% Italian Peninsula, 5% Sephardic, 3% Malta & Sicily, <1% Anatolia, Armenia & Mesopotamia.

Previously I had 29% Ashkenazi, 11% Sephardic, 4% Southeast Europe, 3% North Africa and <2% West Middle East, ostensibly from my Jewish side. Now I'm at 32% Ashkenazi, 4% Sephardic, 3% Italian Peninsula, 2% Malta & Sicily, <1% Maghreb & Egypt and <1% Yemenite Jewish. The rest is NW European (Central Europe, Scandinavia and Ireland). I can only assume that some of my Jewish ancestry is being read as Central Europe, since that's an even more uneven divide than before.

As for the Sephardic, it's interesting to me that your family's percentages remain so high. So far the percentage for every other forum member with known Sephardic ancestry has gone down considerably. Maybe the new algorithm favors "fully" Eastern Sephardic (e.g. Greek or Turkish Sephardic) individuals, but has gotten more conservative in attributing the Sephardic category to partial Eastern Sephardim and Sephardim from other regions? The other examples on the forum have been North African or mixed.

Now that the FTDNA site seems to be running more smoothly, I'll continue checking through my mom's matches to see if there are any patterns.

grumpydaddybear
09-23-2020, 09:28 PM
I went from:

Ashkenazi 94
British Isles 5
West Middle East <1

to:


Ashkenazi Jewish 97%
Great Britain <2%
Central Europ <1%
Magyar <1%
Sephardic Jewish <1%

This is more aligned with my 23andme and the paper trail.

eolien
09-23-2020, 09:59 PM
Interesting. How do they compare to the previous results?

As I posted in the big 3.0 results thread, my mother's results changed from 59% Ashkenazi, 27% Sephardic, 13% Southeast Europe and <2% West Middle East to the current: 81% Ashkenazi, 10% Italian Peninsula, 5% Sephardic, 3% Malta & Sicily, <1% Anatolia, Armenia & Mesopotamia.

Previously I had 29% Ashkenazi, 11% Sephardic, 4% Southeast Europe, 3% North Africa and <2% West Middle East, ostensibly from my Jewish side. Now I'm at 32% Ashkenazi, 4% Sephardic, 3% Italian Peninsula, 2% Malta & Sicily, <1% Maghreb & Egypt and <1% Yemenite Jewish. The rest is NW European (Central Europe, Scandinavia and Ireland). I can only assume that some of my Jewish ancestry is being read as Central Europe, since that's an even more uneven divide than before.

As for the Sephardic, it's interesting to me that your family's percentages remain so high. So far the percentage for every other forum member with known Sephardic ancestry has gone down considerably. Maybe the new algorithm favors "fully" Eastern Sephardic (e.g. Greek or Turkish Sephardic) individuals, but has gotten more conservative in attributing the Sephardic category to partial Eastern Sephardim and Sephardim from other regions? The other examples on the forum have been North African or mixed.

Now that the FTDNA site seems to be running more smoothly, I'll continue checking through my mom's matches to see if there are any patterns.

we all 3 were 100% Sephardic. And we moved from Europe to Middle East although in the map it shows Iberia :)

eolien
09-23-2020, 10:54 PM
Interesting. How do they compare to the previous results?

As I posted in the big 3.0 results thread, my mother's results changed from 59% Ashkenazi, 27% Sephardic, 13% Southeast Europe and <2% West Middle East to the current: 81% Ashkenazi, 10% Italian Peninsula, 5% Sephardic, 3% Malta & Sicily, <1% Anatolia, Armenia & Mesopotamia.

Previously I had 29% Ashkenazi, 11% Sephardic, 4% Southeast Europe, 3% North Africa and <2% West Middle East, ostensibly from my Jewish side. Now I'm at 32% Ashkenazi, 4% Sephardic, 3% Italian Peninsula, 2% Malta & Sicily, <1% Maghreb & Egypt and <1% Yemenite Jewish. The rest is NW European (Central Europe, Scandinavia and Ireland). I can only assume that some of my Jewish ancestry is being read as Central Europe, since that's an even more uneven divide than before.

As for the Sephardic, it's interesting to me that your family's percentages remain so high. So far the percentage for every other forum member with known Sephardic ancestry has gone down considerably. Maybe the new algorithm favors "fully" Eastern Sephardic (e.g. Greek or Turkish Sephardic) individuals, but has gotten more conservative in attributing the Sephardic category to partial Eastern Sephardim and Sephardim from other regions? The other examples on the forum have been North African or mixed.

Now that the FTDNA site seems to be running more smoothly, I'll continue checking through my mom's matches to see if there are any patterns.

some people commented that it is kind of oracle and not real IBD. I really don't know but i hope not. There are many other annoying things for example they put anatolia, armenia and iran into one category. I think they shifted to eastern turkish-armenian component because my-mother-in law gets 96% anatolia. but still iran does not make sense. Even for the version 2.0 we were guessing that turkish jews were the basis for the sephardic jewish component. There can be many reasons for that such as available academic samples but also most sephardic jews in USA are originally from Turkey or Rhodes.

At the end they have to choose one population as a component and the jews of turkey are the best available (Bulgarians are in Israel and Greek jews mostly died in Holocaust), i also think they might have taken western european jews as ashkenazi component.

passenger
09-23-2020, 11:10 PM
Anyway, my theory about the algorithm favoring Greek and Turkish Jews has been dented by the fact that forum member "Sam1989" saw his Sephardic percentage go down from 75% to 20%. So if the category is based on Eastern Sephardim, it seems like a very specific group.

passenger
09-24-2020, 03:31 AM
Looking through some of my mom's matches now, I see that one Turkish Jew from Izmir went from 76% Sephardic and 24% Southeast Europe, to:

11% Ashkenazi, 48% Italian Peninsula, 11% Greece & Balkans, 23% Sephardic, 5% Northern Levant, <1% Yemenite Jewish, <1% Mizrahi, <2% Maghreb & Egypt.

Another Turkish Jew with roots in Istanbul and Ankara went from 69% Sephardic, 18% Southeast Europe, 7% Ashkenazi, etc. to a current breakdown of:

8% Ashkenazi, 19% Italian, 12% Iberian, 20% Sephardic, 18% Anatolian, 14% Northern Levant, 5% Southern Levant, <1% Mizrahi, <4% Maghreb & Egypt.

On the other hand, another Turkish Jew from Istanbul gets:

90% Sephardic, 4% Ashkenazi, <4% Southern Caucasus and 3% Malta & Sicily.

Three Sephardim from Rhodes, who were the first matches I found to have 100% Sephardic, have kept the same percentage.

One Ioannina Jew, who claims to be Romaniote, went from 100% Sephardic, to a current breakdown of:

5% Ashkenazi, 15% Italian Peninsula, 5% Greece and Balkans, 6% Sardinia, 29% Sephardic, 30% Anatolia/Armenia/Mesopotamia, 5% Druze, <1% Yemenite, <3% Mizrahi, <2% Bedouin, <2% Maghreb & Egypt.

One half Ashkenazi, half Tunisian Jewish match scores:

48% Ashkenazi, 16% Italian Peninsula, 3% Central Europe, 15% Sephardic, 7% Anatolia, 9% North Levant, <1% Mizrahi, <2% Maghreb/Egypt.

So far it seems like the 90-100 percenters are more the exception than the rule for this Sephardic category, but that could be partly because I'm only looking at individuals who match my mother.

Táltos
09-25-2020, 03:56 AM
Has anyone heard where they got the Mizrahi samples from? Also what happened to the chromosome painter? I really wish they included it so I can see where exactly they are painting all my "trace" Jewish percentages.

I am also wondering how they can break up all these components into trace.. I mean seriously, what does less than 3% Sephardic even mean? They gave me Ashkenazi Jewish <1%. Ok over at 23andme they had my Ashkenazi at 0.9 in all three modes, finally they put it at 1%. So are they saying I am 2.8% Sephardic? Is my Mizrahi that is less than 1% really 0.9, 0.8, 0.5? I also got <2% for Malta and Sicily. I think my overall result is better than the previous version as they had my Eastern European way too high, but all these trace results are ridiculous! Last last time I had a whole 1% that was undetermined, so I guess this is an improvement?

StillWater
09-25-2020, 10:37 AM
Has anyone heard where they got the Mizrahi samples from? Also what happened to the chromosome painter? I really wish they included it so I can see where exactly they are painting all my "trace" Jewish percentages.

I am also wondering how they can break up all these components into trace.. I mean seriously, what does less than 3% Sephardic even mean? They gave me Ashkenazi Jewish <1%. Ok over at 23andme they had my Ashkenazi at 0.9 in all three modes, finally they put it at 1%. So are they saying I am 2.8% Sephardic? Is my Mizrahi that is less than 1% really 0.9, 0.8, 0.5? I also got <2% for Malta and Sicily. I think my overall result is better than the previous version as they had my Eastern European way too high, but all these trace results are ridiculous! Last last time I had a whole 1% that was undetermined, so I guess this is an improvement?

You can get an idea what they mean by trace % seeing the excel downloads of MyOrigins2 results. Many think the chromosome painter is coming soon, but from what I understand, it's to come when everyone is updated, which is about 3 weeks from now.

passenger
09-25-2020, 04:45 PM
Has anyone heard where they got the Mizrahi samples from? Also what happened to the chromosome painter? I really wish they included it so I can see where exactly they are painting all my "trace" Jewish percentages.

I am also wondering how they can break up all these components into trace.. I mean seriously, what does less than 3% Sephardic even mean? They gave me Ashkenazi Jewish <1%. Ok over at 23andme they had my Ashkenazi at 0.9 in all three modes, finally they put it at 1%. So are they saying I am 2.8% Sephardic? Is my Mizrahi that is less than 1% really 0.9, 0.8, 0.5? I also got <2% for Malta and Sicily. I think my overall result is better than the previous version as they had my Eastern European way too high, but all these trace results are ridiculous! Last last time I had a whole 1% that was undetermined, so I guess this is an improvement?

I don't know what Mizrahi samples they have. My mother has a match with a Persian Jewish surname and Iran as the location for all the names listed in her tree. She scores 40% Mizrahi. I think she's probably very mixed though, since she also has sizeable Slavic and Ashkenazi percentages, among others.

And their Jewish "trace" regions seem to be all over the place. I'm guessing part of the problem is that they were trying to fix problems they had with 2.0 and ended up overcorrecting and creating a new set of issues. For instance, with 2.0, they often underestimated Ashkenazi ancestry in fully Ashkenazi individuals. They now seem to have compensated for that, and I'm seeing a lot more 99% and 100% Ashkenazi matches. However, they may be over-assigning Ashkenazi now, even to individuals who didn't get it before. With their Sephardic category, I don't think they had an issue in over-assigning it to actual Sephardim, but they did wrongly assign it to some non-Jewish users, especially from the Middle East, so they may have tried to make it more conservative. On the other hand, though Sephardic percentages have gone down for many actual Sephardim, and have disappeared for some people who shouldn't have had them in the first place, they also seem to be popping up as trace percentages for people who never had them before. It's kind of a mess overall.

coffeeprince
09-26-2020, 01:13 AM
Yes, the trace segments are strange. I get both Mizrahi Jewish and Yemeni Jewish. :\

talombo
09-26-2020, 02:41 AM
This is highest Mizrahi I could find in my matches, I think she's mostly Iraqi Jewish but I can't be sure.

https://i.imgur.com/llnutPr.png

passenger
09-26-2020, 03:23 PM
Yes, the trace segments are strange. I get both Mizrahi Jewish and Yemeni Jewish. :\

From what I can tell, the Yemeni category seems to be working for actual Yemeni Jews. My mom and I have a few half Yemeni matches and their estimates seem to check out. But of course I wouldn't put much stock in the trace percentages. I also got trace Yemeni, like I do on G25, but I'm pretty sure it's just ancient Arabian-like ancestry that the algorithm is failing to incorporate into a more recent Western Jewish source that it's mediated through.

Tanchik
09-26-2020, 06:27 PM
My father:

Sephardic Jewish 95%
Ashkenazi Jewish 4%
Basque <1%


My mother

Sephardic Jewish 90%
Ashkenazi Jewish 4%
Southern Caucasia (Georgia) <4%
Malta & Sicily 3%


But ME

Sephardic Jewish 100% :(

Base on that you are Turkish Jewish. So Separdic Category on Ftdna based on Turkish Jews. Because As a Morocco Jew I score only 17% Separdic. And my Moroccan matchs less or more depends.

Tanchik
09-26-2020, 06:30 PM
This is highest Mizrahi I could find in my matches, I think she's mostly Iraqi Jewish but I can't be sure.

https://i.imgur.com/llnutPr.png

Looks like a Syrian Jewish. Her results so close to mine I am half Iraqi half Moroccan jew. I score 51% Mizrahi ans the rest like her just I am 17% Separdic and She is 11% Ashekanzi while I am 2% Ashekanzi. Base on that overall looks a bit more "european" that me in total at it looks like Syrian Jewish or Lebanese Jews

Táltos
09-27-2020, 03:35 PM
You can get an idea what they mean by trace % seeing the excel downloads of MyOrigins2 results. Many think the chromosome painter is coming soon, but from what I understand, it's to come when everyone is updated, which is about 3 weeks from now.

Yep, really hope they offer the chromosome browser to see where these segments are. The trace regions are strange. Middle East for me >3%, Middle East Jewish >1%. Under myOrigins2.0 My lowest scores are Asia Minor 6%, Southeast Europe 4%.

23andme actually might make more sense in relation to this trace a little...My overall WANA there is 3.8%. My largest score in the update is West Slavic 40% old 2.0 has me 75% Eastern Europe. Over at 23andme my Eastern Europe is 40.8%