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Gwydion
09-30-2020, 12:17 AM
I was curious as to if we've learned anything more on the origins of R-Z49, particularly the -Z142 branches. I believe I've read theories about a Rhenish origin, but I find it curious when looking at my own branch (R-BY3620) and other non-Z142 branches (such as R-S8183) that there seems to be a more eastern and northern distribution than what would be expected for a Rhenish origin.

For example the vast majority of samples of these groups appear to be east of the Rhine, more in the interior of Germany. Further most of the samples I've come across have a more northern pull than might be expected with U152, with R-S8183 having a strong showing in Sweden and my own branch being present in the Netherlands, Northern Germany, and the area around Leipzig, as well as northern Czech republic and a singleton in Norway.

Indeed when looking at all of these -Z142 branches, there seems to be a strong band running across Germany into Czech republic and even Poland. Here's a rough outline of where I've found many matches and samples:

https://i.imgur.com/L6wbAQb.png

My main interest here is whether this dispersal is more likely the result of east to west movements or the inverse. Obviously Eastern Bell Beakers were U152 and we have ancient L2 Hallstatt samples from Bohemia, but then there also seems to be a strong association of U152 with the Rhineland. In more recent history we have the medieval Ostsiedlung that might explain parts the map above, but what about the possibility of ancient U152 on the Elbe, Saale, in Thuringia, the Harz, Hesse, etc. moving west? Thoughts?

asquecco
09-30-2020, 08:00 AM
I add to this discussion the very rough data I'm collecting about the present-day distribution of Z49>S8183>FT44656>S20782 (YFull R-Y17176):
https://bit.ly/YDNA-R-S20782
In this particular case, I see North-South paths that seem to involve the Amber Road and the Rhine Valley.