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View Full Version : R1b-U152 Anceint DNA Samples - Update



falconson1
10-03-2020, 06:28 PM
I posted this to the Viking Genome thread but it is perhaps of more salience here:

I doubt that it is only myself who is more than surprised that in the last few months, the number of R-U152 samples in the Margaryan study has gone from 5 to 10. Apparently there has been a great deal of re-analysis of the Margaryan data. The most up to date database on ancient DNA appears to be https://haplogroup.info/all-ancient-dna.xlsx.

Previously we knew of the one R-U152* from Oxford, England, two R-L2* from Funen, Denmark and Varnhem, Sweden, and two R-L20* from Funen, Denmark and Langeland, Denmark. Now add two more L2 with Z49 individuals from Gnezdovo, Russia and Oland, Sweden; and ZZ36 samples from Pskov, Russia and San Lorenzo, Italy (the latter from a Medieval sample). In addition, there is a further L20 identified, he being from Ribe, Jutland, Denmark. Most also have Y Haplotree and YFull SNPs added for deeper refinement.

Surely this "revelation" (at least to me) would apply to all haplogroups and all samples need to be re-examined in light of the above new findings.

By the way, as of now the only Ancient DNA L20 samples are one Bronze Age individual from Singen on the Swiss - Germany border; and the 3 from Jutland and adjacent islands, and one circa 950 AD from Ytra-Gardshorn, Iceland. I have long maintained that L20 arrived in England either with the Angles or the Danish Vikings, and that would be true for most of the U152 varieties also. Of course nothing definitive can be said until samples from the Danelaw in England are published.

ArmandoR1b
10-03-2020, 07:09 PM
The most up to date database on ancient DNA appears to be https://haplogroup.info/all-ancient-dna.xlsx.


This spreadsheet is well done. Do you know who made it? It would be nice if material type ie tooth, bone, petrous bone were included in the spreadsheet as well as BAM file size. Both material and file size can be indicators that there is a possibility of finding more data from the specimens. The specimens without testing of the petrous bone would be the best candidates for retesting because the petrous bone provides the best results. The type of test used is also important. Not all of the tests are able to retrieve results of all of the Y-DNA positions.

I would also like to see a spreadsheet of R1b samples and their no-calls so we can see which ones we don't know if they are positive or negative for U152, L2 and L20. Those also need to be retested even if petrous bone was used the 1st time using a test really good at capturing Y-DNA positions.

falconson1
10-03-2020, 07:55 PM
This spreadsheet is well done. Do you know who made it? It would be nice if material type ie tooth, bone, petrous bone were included in the spreadsheet as well as BAM file size. Both material and file size can be indicators that there is a possibility of finding more data from the specimens. The specimens without testing of the petrous bone would be the best candidates for retesting because the petrous bone provides the best results. The type of test used is also important. Not all of the tests are able to retrieve results of all of the Y-DNA positions.

I would also like to see a spreadsheet of R1b samples and their no-calls so we can see which ones we don't know if they are positive or negative for U152, L2 and L20. Those also need to be retested even if petrous bone was used the 1st time using a test really good at capturing Y-DNA positions.

These are the folks who provided the spreadsheet: https://indo-european.eu/ancient-dna/ . You make some excellent points ArmandoR1b, but I suspect that sifting through all these studies for the info you note would be a daunting task - worthwhile, but don't know who would undertake it.

Cascio
10-04-2020, 11:23 AM
ZZ36 samples from Pskov, Russia and San Lorenzo, Italy (the latter from a Medieval sample).


Do you mean Z36 here?

Hodo Scariti
10-05-2020, 12:53 PM
Do you mean Z36 here?

A Z36 in Pskov sounds pretty new...

By the way, in the Z36 group we need more deeper analysis' among members. Too many subclades...