PDA

View Full Version : 23andme says I'm j1e I am a romanian Jew



Myth
02-16-2014, 07:40 PM
I took the 23andme test a while back, my father was a Jew of romanian descent and cohanim he is listed as j1e, 23andme says I'm about 45 percent ashkenazi and the rest is about 5 percent Balkans some Northern European and about 1 percent Asian. I noticed most of my matches are in Ukraine, Russia, or Poland and none from Romania, my family actually has a long history in Romania and none that we are aware of in those countries. My dad's family does not identify as Ashkenazi but Jewish, I assume this would mean we have middle eastern ancestry?

AJL
02-16-2014, 08:03 PM
Welcome to Anthrogenica.

23andme has not updated their Y tree for some time and J1e is now called J-P58. This is very much a Middle Eastern haplogroup and very common in Cohanim. As for your autosomes, there is some debate over what proportion exactly of European Jewish genetics traces back ultimately to the Levant though it is clear a significant proportion does.

Do you have any tradition of Sephardi ancestry? If not, your Eastern European Jewish ancestry is likely to be entirely Ashkenazi Jewish, whether this is how your ancestors identified or not.

If you change your thresholds in Countries of Ancestry to 1 grandparent and 5 centimorgans, you may find more matches in Romania; though because of shifting borders over the last centuries, many of your matches are likely to be in Moldova and Ukraine. Also, many people simply list "Russia" because their ancestors came from the former Russian Empire circa 1870-1920, but in modern terms this could certainly include many other places. For this reason in the case of Ashkenazi ancestry you should treat "Russia" as indicating the entire area of the former USSR and Russian Empire.

Incidentally few if any of these matches will be traceable genealogically in any case because inbreeding among Eastern European Jews means that segments persist very far back. I have less than half Ashkenazi ancestry and yet Romania is my number-8 country, even though I have no known ancestry from there. (Some children cousins of my 4th great-grandfather, however, moved to Moldova from Ukraine.)

Myth
02-16-2014, 08:30 PM
I'm not aware of any Sephardic ancestry, our family from what i've been told does look middle eastern, I know that Romania traditionally and historically was actually Sephardic in very large numbers before Ashkenazi Migration. The Sephardics came in from the Balkans mainly to southern Romania and this is evident in synagogues in the region in Bucharest. My family is originally from Southern Romania, a town called Targoviste, from what my cousin had said, he believes some family might have come from Austria and that the family did not move around a lot, apparently they supposedly weren't that far from Hungary but historically spoke Romanian. Ashkenazi from what I do know came in at later dates from Galicia, Ukraine and Poland although we don't have any historical family from that area that I am aware of, but maybe they mixed with sephardics?

I do actually cluster with Romanians.

[QUOTE=Myth;2026249]I received my results from 23andme a while back, I am receiving multiple reports on what my ancestry actually is which differs from 23andme, gedmatch and some of the results I have had from Mcdonald as well as Dodcad.

these are my 23andme results

Y DNA is J1c3
MTDNA is H1

As you can see from the listed results below, 23andme seems to think I am primarily of Russian Descent and German background yet lists my genetic marker as originally belonging to the middle east, yet J1c3 doesn't seem to be very common in Europe. On the other hand, Mcdonald sees me as primarily being of Jewish Middle Eastern, Hungarian, Italian or Romanian. On my GEDMatch records, i'm being recorded as primarily Romanian, Balkans, some Finnish, German, or in some cases Assyrian, Iraq or Turkish.

The results are a bit weird because some are picking up slight traces of Asian, other times it doesn't show up, and in other cases most of my results seem to show a Balkans origin yet on 23andme, it only detects Russian and German, 23andme seems to detect J1c3 as Ashkenazi Jewish and declares it to be European, is it mainly due to population sizes or how should I handle these results of my actual background?

Based on 23andme, this is my ancestry

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a404/OOLJEE85/23andme.jpg

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a404/OOLJEE85/23andme2.jpg

This is from EuroDNA Calculator

EuroDNACalc
[1] "NORTHWEST EURO: Maximum Likelihood Estimate=15% Interval=[0, 40]"
[1] "SOUTHEAST EURO: Maximum Likelihood Estimate=34% Interval=[1, 66]"
[1] "ASHKENAZI JEWISH: Maximum Likelihood Estimate=51% Interval=[30, 73]"


And this is my Mcdonald Analysis

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a404/OOLJEE85/canvas.png

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a404/OOLJEE85/bga2.png

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a404/OOLJEE85/bga3.png

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a404/OOLJEE85/bga4.png

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,

most likely at the top

Tuscan= 0.153 Hungary= 0.566 Jewish= 0.280

French= 0.126 Hungary= 0.509 Jewish= 0.366

Spain= 0.072 Hungary= 0.577 Jewish= 0.351

Italian= 0.106 Hungary= 0.566 Jewish= 0.328

Tuscan= 0.714 Russian= 0.262 Mozabite= 0.024

Sardinia= 0.033 Hungary= 0.618 Jewish= 0.348

English= 0.118 Hungary= 0.488 Jewish= 0.394

Tuscan= 0.111 Romania= 0.866 Moroccan= 0.023

Tuscan= 0.150 Romania= 0.832 Mozabite= 0.018

Tuscan= 0.372 Belorus= 0.355 Jewish= 0.273

Second most likely fit is 88.3% (+- 8.9%) Europe (all Southeast Europe)

and 0.3% (+- 0.2%) Africa (various subcontinents)

and 11.4% (+- 9.0%) Mideast (all Jewish)

The following are possible population sets and their fractions,

most likely at the top

Hungary= 0.616 Yoruba= 0.000 Jewish= 0.384

Romania= 0.920 Ethiopia= 0.007 Jewish= 0.073

Romania= 0.920 Ethiopia= 0.007 Jewish= 0.073

Romania= 0.910 Mandenka= 0.002 Jewish= 0.088

Romania= 0.913 Maasai= 0.003 Jewish= 0.084

Romania= 0.916 Ethiopia= 0.004 Jewish= 0.080

Romania= 0.910 Yoruba= 0.002 Jewish= 0.088

Romania= 0.910 Bantu Ke= 0.002 Jewish= 0.088

Romania= 0.909 Bantu So= 0.002 Jewish= 0.089

Romania= 0.907 Biaka Py= 0.000 Jewish= 0.093

Mcdonald stated that I had a "slightly" higher amount of African blood than most Ashkenazi Jews and that all individuals test for a small amount of African blood except the Caucasus.

My Dodcad ID 678

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6u0DKXHH3Bk/TdheZdlos5I/AAAAAAAAAew/Q39fd5fArN8/s1600/ADMIXTURE_DOD674_DOD683_10.png

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadG0zRlpFTjVnemJjU0d2MUtJSkMzN Gc&hl=en&authkey=CP-9p_wC#gid=0

19.3 West Asian, 33 percent south european, 0.5 percent northeast asian, 9.3 percent southwest asian, 1.1 percent east asian, 36.8 percent north european

and this is from GEDMatch

M213922 Eurogene EUtest V2 K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 24.21
2 North_Sea 16.88
3 West_Asian 11.98
4 East_Med 11.66
5 West_Med 11.33
6 Baltic 11.32
7 Eastern_Euro 6.94
8 Red_Sea 4.54
9 Siberian 1.14


--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Romanian @ 10.686
2 Serbian @ 10.878
3 Bulgarian @ 12.278
4 Austrian @ 13.253
5 North_Italian @ 13.404
6 Tuscan @ 14.955
7 French @ 15.583
8 Spanish_Cataluna @ 16.145
9 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 16.416
10 Spanish_Extremadura @ 16.438
165 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Austrian +50% Tuscan @ 6.529
2 50% German +50% Greek @ 7.224
3 50% Bulgarian +50% French @ 7.494
4 50% Austrian +50% North_Italian @ 7.755
5 50% Greek +50% Irish @ 7.781
6 50% Romanian +50% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 7.795
7 50% Greek +50% Southeast_English @ 7.853
8 50% Romanian +50% Spanish_Cataluna @ 7.921
9 50% Romanian +50% Spanish_Murcia @ 7.955
10 50% Romanian +50% Spanish_Extremadura @ 7.991
13695 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Austrian +25% French_Basque +25% Turkish @ 4.054
2 50% Austrian +25% Armenian +25% French_Basque @ 4.138
3 50% Austrian +25% Spanish_Aragon +25% Turkish @ 4.203
4 50% Austrian +25% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha +25% Turkish @ 4.435
5 50% Austrian +25% Assyrian +25% French_Basque @ 4.442
6 50% Austrian +25% Spanish_Cantabria +25% Turkish @ 4.537
7 50% Hungarian +25% French_Basque +25% Turkish @ 4.556
8 50% Austrian +25% Southwest_French +25% Turkish @ 4.572
9 50% Austrian +25% French_Basque +25% Kurdish @ 4.643
10 50% Austrian +25% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon +25% Turkish @ 4.704
543136 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Armenian + Belorussian + French + French_Basque @ 3.786
2 Austrian + French_Basque + Hungarian + Turkish @ 3.925
3 Armenian + Austrian + French_Basque + Southwest_Finnish @ 3.958
4 Austrian + German + Spanish_Aragon + Turkish @ 3.978
5 Assyrian + French_Basque + German + Polish @ 3.985
6 Assyrian + French_Basque + Southwest_English + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 4.034
7 Assyrian + Austrian + French_Basque + German @ 4.050
8 Austrian + Austrian + French_Basque + Turkish @ 4.054
9 Austrian + German + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Turkish @ 4.062
10 Assyrian + French_Basque + Southeast_English + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 4.066
11 Assyrian + French_Basque + Irish + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 4.078
12 Bulgarian + French_Basque + Swedish + Turkish @ 4.109
13 Assyrian + Belorussian + French + French_Basque @ 4.109
14 French_Basque + Romanian + Southwest_Finnish + Turkish @ 4.119
15 Austrian + German + Southwest_French + Turkish @ 4.138
16 Armenian + Austrian + Austrian + French_Basque @ 4.138
17 French_Basque + German + Romanian + Turkish @ 4.152
18 Assyrian + French + French_Basque + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 4.164
19 Assyrian + Austrian + French_Basque + Southwest_Finnish @ 4.175
20 Armenian + French + French_Basque + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 4.191


This is mixed mode population sharing from Oracle and my results

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.9% Austrian + 46.1% Tuscan @ 5.66
2 78.6% Romanian + 21.4% French_Basque @ 5.8
3 68.6% Romanian + 31.4% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 5.84
4 60% Greek + 40% Irish @ 5.95
5 71.6% Romanian + 28.4% Spanish_Aragon @ 6.02
6 65.9% Romanian + 34.1% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 6.1
7 66.7% Romanian + 33.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 6.12
8 60.9% Greek + 39.1% West_Scottish @ 6.13
9 68.4% Romanian + 31.6% Spanish_Valencia @ 6.18
10 71.8% Austrian + 28.2% Sephardic_Jewish @ 6.2
11 66.4% Romanian + 33.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 6.24
12 68.6% Romanian + 31.4% Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.3
13 52.9% Greek + 47.1% German @ 6.3
14 66.2% Romanian + 33.8% Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.33
15 58.8% Bulgarian + 41.2% French @ 6.34
16 60.1% Greek + 39.9% Danish @ 6.35
17 58.5% Greek + 41.5% Southeast_English @ 6.37
18 73% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + 27% Lezgin @ 6.43
19 71.7% Romanian + 28.3% Spanish_Cantabria @ 6.45
20 72.2% Romanian + 27.8% Southwest_French @ 6.58

MDLP Results

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North-East-European 34.3
2 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 31.48
3 West-Asian 15.47
4 Near_East 13.4
5 North-European-Mesolithic 2.34
6 North-Siberean 1.26
7 Arctic-Amerind 0.57
8 Indo-Tibetan 0.52
9 Melanesian 0.27
10 Indo-Iranian 0.26
11 Paleo-Siberian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Gagauz (derived) 4.49
2 Bulgarian (derived) 5.35
3 Romania (derived) 7.15
4 Macedonian (derived) 7.39
5 Ashkenazim_V (derived) 8.38
6 Montenegrin (derived) 8.85
7 Greek_South (derived) 10.44
8 Greek_North (derived) 10.66
9 Italian_North (derived) 10.97
10 Serbian (derived) 11.16
11 Swiss (derived) 11.92
12 Provancestralal (derived) 13.18
13 Italian-North (derived) 13.68
14 Jew_Romania (derived) 14.52
15 Greek_Center (derived) 14.53
16 German-South (derived) 14.7
17 Greek_East (derived) 15.68
18 Bosnian (derived) 15.83
19 French (derived) 16.77
20 Italian-Center (derived) 16.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70% Italian-South (derived) + 30% Estonian (derived) @ 1.48
2 72.1% Italian-Center (derived) + 27.9% Estonian (derived) @ 1.71
3 68.1% Sicilian (derived) + 31.9% Estonian (derived) @ 1.79
4 71.5% Italian-South (derived) + 28.5% Latvian (derived) @ 1.85
5 64.8% Sicilian (derived) + 35.2% Russian_Center (derived) @ 1.9
6 59.1% Sicilian (derived) + 40.9% Ukrainian_V (derived) @ 1.94
7 59.5% Jew_Romania (derived) + 40.5% German (derived) @ 1.95
8 60% Sicilian (derived) + 40% Ukrainian-Center (derived) @ 1.97
9 64.7% Italian-South (derived) + 35.3% Russian_V (derived) @ 1.99
10 63% Sicilian (derived) + 37% Russian_South (derived) @ 2.03
11 67.9% Italian-Center (derived) + 32.1% Moldavian (derived) @ 2.03
12 62.6% Sicilian (derived) + 37.4% Russian_V (derived) @ 2.04
13 69.6% Sicilian (derived) + 30.4% Latvian (derived) @ 2.05
14 62.6% Sicilian (derived) + 37.4% Russian_cossack (derived) @ 2.06
15 73.5% Italian-Center (derived) + 26.5% Latvian (derived) @ 2.06
16 66.9% Italian-South (derived) + 33.1% Russian_Center (derived) @ 2.08
17 58.9% German-North (derived) + 41.1% Jew_Syria (derived) @ 2.09
18 55.7% Jew_Romania (derived) + 44.3% Hungarian (derived) @ 2.1
19 62.3% Sicilian (derived) + 37.7% Ukrainian-East (derived) @ 2.11
20 66.9% Italian-Center (derived) + 33.1% Russian_V (derived) @ 2.11


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North-East-European 34.3
2 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 31.48
3 West-Asian 15.47
4 Near_East 13.4
5 North-European-Mesolithic 2.34
6 North-Siberean 1.26
7 Arctic-Amerind 0.57
8 Indo-Tibetan 0.52
9 Melanesian 0.27
10 Indo-Iranian 0.26
11 Paleo-Siberian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Gagauz (derived) 4.49
2 Bulgarian (derived) 5.35
3 Romania (derived) 7.15
4 Macedonian (derived) 7.39
5 Ashkenazim_V (derived) 8.38
6 Montenegrin (derived) 8.85
7 Greek_South (derived) 10.44
8 Greek_North (derived) 10.66
9 Italian_North (derived) 10.97
10 Serbian (derived) 11.16
11 Swiss (derived) 11.92
12 Provancestralal (derived) 13.18
13 Italian-North (derived) 13.68
14 Jew_Romania (derived) 14.52
15 Greek_Center (derived) 14.53
16 German-South (derived) 14.7
17 Greek_East (derived) 15.68
18 Bosnian (derived) 15.83
19 French (derived) 16.77
20 Italian-Center (derived) 16.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70% Italian-South (derived) + 30% Estonian (derived) @ 1.48
2 72.1% Italian-Center (derived) + 27.9% Estonian (derived) @ 1.71
3 68.1% Sicilian (derived) + 31.9% Estonian (derived) @ 1.79
4 71.5% Italian-South (derived) + 28.5% Latvian (derived) @ 1.85
5 64.8% Sicilian (derived) + 35.2% Russian_Center (derived) @ 1.9
6 59.1% Sicilian (derived) + 40.9% Ukrainian_V (derived) @ 1.94
7 59.5% Jew_Romania (derived) + 40.5% German (derived) @ 1.95
8 60% Sicilian (derived) + 40% Ukrainian-Center (derived) @ 1.97
9 64.7% Italian-South (derived) + 35.3% Russian_V (derived) @ 1.99
10 63% Sicilian (derived) + 37% Russian_South (derived) @ 2.03
11 67.9% Italian-Center (derived) + 32.1% Moldavian (derived) @ 2.03
12 62.6% Sicilian (derived) + 37.4% Russian_V (derived) @ 2.04
13 69.6% Sicilian (derived) + 30.4% Latvian (derived) @ 2.05
14 62.6% Sicilian (derived) + 37.4% Russian_cossack (derived) @ 2.06
15 73.5% Italian-Center (derived) + 26.5% Latvian (derived) @ 2.06
16 66.9% Italian-South (derived) + 33.1% Russian_Center (derived) @ 2.08
17 58.9% German-North (derived) + 41.1% Jew_Syria (derived) @ 2.09
18 55.7% Jew_Romania (derived) + 44.3% Hungarian (derived) @ 2.1
19 62.3% Sicilian (derived) + 37.7% Ukrainian-East (derived) @ 2.11
20 66.9% Italian-Center (derived) + 33.1% Russian_V (derived) @ 2.11

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North-East-European 34.71
2 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 31.86
3 West-Asian 15.66
4 Near_East 13.56
5 North-European-Mesolithic 2.37
6 North-Siberean 1.27
7 Arctic-Amerind 0.58


--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Gagauz @ 4.871
2 Bulgarian @ 5.767
3 Romania @ 7.919
4 Macedonian @ 8.106
5 Ashkenazim_V @ 9.646
6 Montenegrin @ 9.703
7 Italian_North @ 11.961
8 Greek_South @ 12.005
9 Greek_North @ 12.224
10 Serbian @ 12.443
276 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Croatian_V +50% Sicilian @ 2.663
2 50% Ashkenazim_V +50% Macedonian @ 2.882
3 50% Bosnian +50% Jew_Romania @ 2.924
4 50% Czech +50% Greek_Cretan @ 2.982
5 50% Hungarian +50% Jew_Romania @ 3.072
6 50% Croatian +50% Jew_Romania @ 3.143
7 50% Jew_Italia +50% Slovakian @ 3.221
8 50% Ashkenazim_V +50% Serbian @ 3.291
9 50% Croatian_V +50% Italian-South @ 3.299
10 50% Jew_Francestrale +50% Slovakian @ 3.317
38226 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian-Center +25% Ashkenazim_V +25% Estonian @ 1.717
2 50% Italian-Center +25% Estonian +25% Greek_South @ 1.796
3 50% Sicilian +25% Estonian +25% Gagauz @ 1.952
4 50% Italian-Center +25% Estonian +25% Greek_North @ 1.966
5 50% Italian-South +25% Ashkenazim_V +25% Estonian @ 1.974
6 50% Italian_North +25% Druze +25% Polish @ 1.975
7 50% Italian_North +25% Druze +25% Polish_V @ 1.989
8 50% Italian_North +25% Druze +25% Russian_Center @ 2.020
9 50% Ukrainian_V +25% Jew-Iraqi +25% Sardinian @ 2.029
10 50% Italian_North +25% Druze +25% Russian_V @ 2.055
2795492 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Corsican + Druze + Estonian + Italian_North @ 1.651
2 Bosnian + Estonian + Jew-Iran + Sardinian @ 1.673
3 Estonian + Greek_Cretan + Italian_North + Sicilian @ 1.705
4 Corsican + Cypriot + Estonian + Gagauz @ 1.708
5 Ashkenazim_V + Estonian + Italian-Center + Italian-Center @ 1.717
6 Estonian + Greek_East + Italian_North + Jew_Italia @ 1.722
7 Corsican + Jew-Iran + Latvian + Spaniard @ 1.730
8 CEU_V + Greek_Cretan + Jew_Francestrale + Ukrainian_V @ 1.750
9 CEU_V + Greek_Cretan + Jew_Francestrale + Ukrainian-Center @ 1.751
10 British + Cypriot + Jew_Francestrale + Lithuanian_V @ 1.751
11 Ashkenazim_V + Estonian + Italian-Center + Italian-South @ 1.752
12 CEU_V + Greek_Cretan + Polish_V + Sephardim @ 1.752
13 Cypriot + Italian-Center + Latvian + Swiss @ 1.771
14 Corsican + Druze + Italian_North + Latvian @ 1.783
15 CEU + Cypriot + Jew_Francestrale + Lithuanian_V @ 1.788
16 Corsican + Jew-Iraqi + Latvian + Spaniard @ 1.792
17 Cypriot + French + Latvian + Sicilian @ 1.793
18 Bosnian + Estonian + Jew_Tat + Sardinian @ 1.794
19 Estonian + Greek_South + Italian-Center + Italian-Center @ 1.796
20 Estonian + Greek_East + Italian_North + Sephardim @ 1.802

15667690 iterations.

Done.

Elapsed time 15.9638 seconds.



Dodecad

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_European 32.71
2 Mediterranean 29.52
3 West_Asian 16.77
4 East_European 10.93
5 Southwest_Asian 6.8
6 Northeast_Asian 1.43
7 Northwest_African 0.75
8 East_African 0.57
9 Southeast_Asian 0.34
10 Palaeo_African 0.17

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tuscan (Xing) 9.4
2 Tuscan (Henn) 9.82
3 TSI (HapMap) 10.19
4 O_Italian (Dodecad) 15.14
5 Slovenian (Xing) 15.38
6 Romanians_14 (Behar) 15.51
7 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 15.54
8 N_Italian (Dodecad) 15.58
9 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 17.09
10 Hungarians (Behar) 17.54
11 Balkans (Dodecad) 17.95
12 Tuscan (HGDP) 19.11
13 C_Italian (Dodecad) 19.36
14 North_Italian (HGDP) 20.62
15 French (HGDP) 21.18
16 French (Dodecad) 21.4
17 CEU (HapMap) 21.73
18 Portuguese (Dodecad) 21.74
19 N._European (Xing) 22.12
20 German (Dodecad) 22.36

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.8% Tuscan (Xing) + 18.2% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 1.86
2 61.9% German (Dodecad) + 38.1% Cypriots (Behar) @ 2.03
3 59.1% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 40.9% German (Dodecad) @ 2.29
4 56.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 43.2% German (Dodecad) @ 2.36
5 80.7% TSI (HapMap) + 19.3% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 2.44
6 81.4% Tuscan (Henn) + 18.6% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 2.68
7 81.6% TSI (HapMap) + 18.4% Russian (HGDP) @ 3.02
8 63% Tuscan (Xing) + 37% Slovenian (Xing) @ 3.18
9 80.6% Tuscan (Xing) + 19.4% FIN (1000Genomes) @ 3.21
10 82.4% Tuscan (Henn) + 17.6% Russian (HGDP) @ 3.47
11 61.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 38.7% FIN (1000Genomes) @ 3.55
12 62.1% Tuscan (Henn) + 37.9% Slovenian (Xing) @ 3.64
13 62.3% N._European (Xing) + 37.7% Cypriots (Behar) @ 3.65
14 61.1% TSI (HapMap) + 38.9% Slovenian (Xing) @ 3.66
15 52.8% Slovenian (Xing) + 47.2% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 3.69
16 55.9% German (Dodecad) + 44.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 3.71
17 58.7% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 41.3% CEU (HapMap) @ 3.77
18 60.5% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 39.5% Argyll (1000 Genomes) @ 3.77
19 61% Argyll (1000 Genomes) + 39% Cypriots (Behar) @ 3.8
20 61% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 39% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 3.94



Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_European 33.32
2 Mediterranean 30.08
3 West_Asian 17.09
4 East_European 11.14
5 Southwest_Asian 6.93
6 Northeast_Asian 1.46


--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Tuscan @ 10.314
2 Tuscan @ 10.640
3 TSI @ 11.013
4 O_Italian @ 16.569
5 N_Italian @ 16.774
6 Slovenian @ 17.057
7 Romanians_14 @ 17.302
8 Ashkenazy_Jews @ 17.783
9 Ashkenazi @ 19.433
10 Hungarians @ 19.467
227 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi +50% German @ 4.061
2 50% German +50% S_Italian_Sicilian @ 4.383
3 50% Greek +50% N._European @ 4.707
4 50% Ashkenazy_Jews +50% German @ 4.766
5 50% TSI +50% Slovenian @ 4.788
6 50% Slovenian +50% Tuscan @ 4.854
7 50% Ashkenazi +50% Slovenian @ 4.886
8 50% Tuscan +50% Slovenian @ 4.991
9 50% Cypriots +50% Swedish @ 5.060
10 50% Ashkenazy_Jews +50% Slovenian @ 5.087
25878 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Slovenian +25% Assyrian +25% French_Basque @ 1.972
2 50% CEU +25% Romanians_14 +25% Samaritians @ 1.999
3 50% German +25% Cypriots +25% Tuscan @ 2.043
4 50% N_Italian +25% FIN +25% Georgia_Jews @ 2.147
5 50% N._European +25% Cypriots +25% Romanians_14 @ 2.151
6 50% CEU +25% Druze +25% Romanians_14 @ 2.160
7 50% TSI +25% Ashkenazi +25% FIN @ 2.201
8 50% Ashkenazi +25% Hungarians +25% Orcadian @ 2.232
9 50% German +25% Cypriots +25% Tuscan @ 2.250
10 50% Orcadian +25% Romanians_14 +25% Samaritians @ 2.258
645040 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Cypriots + FIN + Mixed_Germanic + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.213
2 Cypriots + Dutch + FIN + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.225
3 Cypriots + FIN + Mixed_Germanic + Sicilian @ 1.373
4 Cypriots + Dutch + FIN + Sicilian @ 1.422
5 Cypriots + Dutch + FIN + S_Italian @ 1.439
6 Cypriots + FIN + Kent + S_Italian @ 1.465
7 Cypriots + FIN + Kent + Sicilian @ 1.475
8 British_Isles + Cypriots + FIN + S_Italian @ 1.530
9 Cypriots + FIN + Kent + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.537
10 Cypriots + Hungarians + Swedish + TSI @ 1.586
11 C_Italian + Cypriots + FIN + N._European @ 1.606
12 Cypriots + Hungarians + Norwegian + Tuscan @ 1.610
13 Cypriots + FIN + Mixed_Germanic + S_Italian @ 1.625
14 Cypriots + O_Italian + Swedish + Slovenian @ 1.632
15 Balkans + Druze + French + N._European @ 1.636
16 C_Italian + Cypriots + FIN + Mixed_Germanic @ 1.644
17 Assyrian + Finnish + French_Basque + N_Italian @ 1.653
18 Cypriots + Hungarians + Swedish + Tuscan @ 1.657
19 Cypriots + Hungarians + Swedish + Tuscan @ 1.669
20 Cypriots + FIN + Orkney + S_Italian_Sicilian @ 1.673

Táltos
02-16-2014, 09:43 PM
Myth, I am so glad to see that 23andMe has no problem distinguishing between Ashkenazi and Italian.

evon
02-16-2014, 10:00 PM
I took the 23andme test a while back, my father was a Jew of romanian descent and cohanim he is listed as j1e, 23andme says I'm about 45 percent ashkenazi and the rest is about 5 percent Balkans some Northern European and about 1 percent Asian. I noticed most of my matches are in Ukraine, Russia, or Poland and none from Romania, my family actually has a long history in Romania and none that we are aware of in those countries. My dad's family does not identify as Ashkenazi but Jewish, I assume this would mean we have middle eastern ancestry?

We have a few Jewish matches from Romania, dont know if they are Ashkenazi or not, but its a crossing point between Sephardi and Ashkenazi (we have both Ashkenazi and Sephardi cousins), and ofc all the other various Jewish groups located in the wider eastern European region. Also, one thing to keep in mind, CoA is very biased, it has a max matching cap of 1000 cousins, and it also is run by questionnaire, so you would expect to find allot of Russian and Polish Jews whom now live in the US on there, while not so many Romanian Jews...

AJL
02-16-2014, 10:58 PM
Myth: you cluster with Romanians because you are half Jewish, half northern European, I think? The average of this is around Romania.

As evon said the database is mainly American, and Romanian Jews are more likely to be in Israel than in the US. Most Romanian Jews are Ashkenazi (i.e. their forebears came from Germany before). If you have significant recent Sephardi ancestry you should have at least one or two of places like Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Morocco, and Greece in your top 15 or so countries.

Myth
02-16-2014, 10:58 PM
That is one of the irritating things is Ashkenazi is added as European and practically everyone I have spoken to including those who share multiple chromosomes with me share no oral history or show any trace to actually being related to me,

AJL
02-16-2014, 10:59 PM
That is one of the irritating things is Ashkenazi is added as European and practically everyone I have spoken to including those who share multiple chromosomes with me share no oral history or show any trace to actually being related to me,

That's the nature of 23andme, unfortunately. Their low segment cutoff combined with a cap on matches makes the service genealogically unuseful for anyone with recent Eastern European Jewish ancestry.

Myth
02-16-2014, 11:04 PM
These are my top countries with 1+ grandparent at 5 cm

1)Russia
2)Ukraine
3)Poland
4)Belarus
5)Germany
6)Hungary
7)United Kingdom
8)Romania
9)Lithuania
10)Austria
11)Argentina
12)France
13)Czech republic
14)Netherlands
15)Moldova
16)Bulgaria

AJL
02-16-2014, 11:44 PM
^That has more to do with database composition than your actual places of ancestry. My Ashkenazi grandfather has almost exactly the same as you:


1)Russia
2)Ukraine
3)Poland
4)Belarus
5)Lithuania
6)Hungary
7)Germany
8)Romania
9)Austria
10)United Kingdom
11)Latvia
12)Czech republic
13)Argentina
14)France
15)Moldova
16)Netherlands

He only has traceable ancestry from Ukraine and Belarus. Polish ancestry before 1780 is likely based on Y matches.

Myth
02-16-2014, 11:48 PM
I gotchya, so I guess it's like a white person doing their ancestry and showing heritage from the united states, australia, south africa, new zealand, etc. is that they are countries that have a history in but not necessarily their ancestors originated from.

My mother wasn't Jewish, she converted and was German and French so I could understand why I show partial North European, if my dad was still alive I could find out if he maybe clusters closer to another population, I guess being a half breed may affect slightly.

AJL
02-16-2014, 11:57 PM
I gotchya, so I guess it's like a white person doing their ancestry and showing heritage from the united states, australia, south africa, new zealand, etc. is that they are countries that have a history in but not necessarily their ancestors originated from.

Exactly. It's where your cousins are, not necessarily your ancestors.

NWnudge
09-24-2014, 04:42 AM
I took the 23andme test a while back, my father was a Jew of romanian descent and cohanim he is listed as j1e, 23andme says I'm about 45 percent ashkenazi and the rest is about 5 percent Balkans some Northern European and about 1 percent Asian. I noticed most of my matches are in Ukraine, Russia, or Poland and none from Romania, my family actually has a long history in Romania and none that we are aware of in those countries. My dad's family does not identify as Ashkenazi but Jewish, I assume this would mean we have middle eastern ancestry?

Ashkenazi Jewish descent is easier to trace than Sephardic (Iberian Peninsula ) or Mizrahi (Always lived in the Middle East Jews).
Ashkenazi Jews are originally from the Middle East All the nonsense about Ashkenazi being totally Khazarian converts has been put to rest with DNA evidence- Especially Cohanim This traces your ancestry and mine back to the Priesthood . The Head Priest Aaron was Moses brother. Romania was once Bessarabia. This was where Jews entered Europe from the Middle East . This is also where Jews dispersed to other parts of Europe. Especially "The pale of Settlement " which includes the Ukraine. All Jews are at least 35th cousins. Many of us are closer as ghettoiized populations in Europe and Muslim Countries meant that alot of cousins married each other.
You also have to factor in pograms,crusades and Muslim attacks for Random DNA when Jews were subjected to Rape .
The entire area of Europe was sometimes Prussia ,sometimes Austria Hungarian Empire sometimes Russia ,Romania , Ottaman Empire , and Moldova It can be very confusig!
.

John Doe
09-30-2014, 04:56 PM
Ashkenazi Jewish descent is easier to trace than Sephardic (Iberian Peninsula ) or Mizrahi (Always lived in the Middle East Jews).
Ashkenazi Jews are originally from the Middle East All the nonsense about Ashkenazi being totally Khazarian converts has been put to rest with DNA evidence- Especially Cohanim This traces your ancestry and mine back to the Priesthood . The Head Priest Aaron was Moses brother. Romania was once Bessarabia. This was where Jews entered Europe from the Middle East . This is also where Jews dispersed to other parts of Europe. Especially "The pale of Settlement " which includes the Ukraine. All Jews are at least 35th cousins. Many of us are closer as ghettoiized populations in Europe and Muslim Countries meant that alot of cousins married each other.
You also have to factor in pograms,crusades and Muslim attacks for Random DNA when Jews were subjected to Rape .
The entire area of Europe was sometimes Prussia ,sometimes Austria Hungarian Empire sometimes Russia ,Romania , Ottaman Empire , and Moldova It can be very confusig!
.
No one serious is still talking about the Khazars, AJs do lack WHG (at least, outside of their EEF component) just like Sicilians and Maltese, and AJs/Maltese/Sicilians plot in the gap between Europe and the near east, between Greeks and Cypriots, I'm also pretty sure they share IBD with Greeks. I have no clue when the ancestors of AJs came to Europe, but there was evidence of Jews in Greece going back to the early 3rd century B.C.E, don't know if these were the Proto-Ashkenazis though.

Myth
05-26-2015, 05:53 AM
Just wanted to update this thread, so it appears FamilyTreeDNA is classifying me as Sephardic on the Iberian Ashkenaz project, I am showing up as CMH as well on the 12 markers.

It appears on J1 project I am ZS-227, on iberian sephard I show up as J1c3d Cohanim Confirmed Seph YSC234+ZS222+, Z18271+

King
05-26-2015, 11:01 AM
You also have to factor in pograms,crusades and Muslim attacks for Random DNA when Jews were subjected to Rape.

Where did you come up with this?

DMXX
05-26-2015, 11:41 AM
You also have to factor in pograms,crusades and Muslim attacks for Random DNA when Jews were subjected to Rape .



Where did you come up with this?

A good question.

This thread seems more catered towards Myth's results rather than a broad discussion on any sort of identifiable gene flow from recognisably Muslim populations into Jewish groups in Southwest Asia or beyond.

I kindly advise NWnudge to post his response in the appropriate sub-section (a choice between History (Ancient) (http://www.anthrogenica.com/forumdisplay.php?158-History-(Ancient))or History (Medieval) (http://www.anthrogenica.com/forumdisplay.php?159-History-(Medieval))). Thank you for your understanding in advance.

ADW_1981
05-26-2015, 02:31 PM
There is no living population which is an exact representation of how it was 3000 years ago. Let's be clear on that.

RCO
05-27-2015, 01:07 PM
Just wanted to update this thread, so it appears FamilyTreeDNA is classifying me as Sephardic on the Iberian Ashkenaz project, I am showing up as CMH as well on the 12 markers.

It appears on J1 project I am ZS-227, on iberian sephard I show up as J1c3d Cohanim Confirmed Seph YSC234+ZS222+, Z18271+

If you want to play the real game you should test FTDNA BIG Y or Full Genomes. The "Kohanim lineage" is well known with "Jews" and "Southern Italians" and we can find one "Brazilian of Portuguese" ancestry just parallel, an ancient Sephardic lost line or not ? The "Jews" were in Eastern Europe. So if you want to know your real position you need your complete SNPs.
http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree