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TonyC
12-15-2020, 12:46 AM
Btw, former Greek_Thrace gets its best fit with Yamnaya_BGR (scaled), among all other possible combos I've tried.

Target: Greek_Thrace_scaled
Distance: 3.1731% / 0.03173115
62.2 Yamnaya_BGR
34.4 TUR_Barcin_N
1.4 Papuan
1.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.6 WHG
0.2 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

For comparison here's what I got:
Distance: 2.8863% / 0.02886305
Target: Anthony_C_scaled
57.0 Yamnaya_BGR
43.0 TUR_Barcin_N

Andrewid
12-15-2020, 10:52 AM
There was a nice article posted about Roopkund Lake in the New Yorker. Razib provided some commentary on his blog (https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2020/12/07/the-greeks-in-the-mountains/). In the comments thread, Stuart Fiedel is continuing to insist (despite dismissals from Reich and Harney) that the Roopkund B samples were of Armenian origin. I replied to him in the same thread. I'll post my reply here, too, for anyone interested:

I decided, considering my East Mediterranean genetic profile, to go searching for long lost ancestral relatives in the depths of deepest Asia. I searched from 1CE to the present. I found them at Lake Roopkund as Roopkund B

https://i.imgur.com/22J9F72.png

I'm suspecting 16935 may perhaps be from the Dodecanese (and not a 'Cyprian' as MyTrueAncestry suggests). 16936 seems to have a northern Greek profile, given his proximity to various mainland Greek groups, but particularly Greek Macedonia. The others are in-between. An assorted band of Greeks from around 1800 and not a single Armenian amongst them.


https://i.imgur.com/FMHbhMr.png

23abc
12-15-2020, 01:18 PM
I decided, considering my East Mediterranean genetic profile, to go searching for long lost ancestral relatives in the depths of deepest Asia. I searched from 1CE to the present. I found them at Lake Roopkund as Roopkund B

https://i.imgur.com/22J9F72.png

I'm suspecting 16935 may perhaps be from the Dodecanese (and not a 'Cyprian' as MyTrueAncestry suggests). 16936 seems to have a northern Greek profile, given his proximity to various mainland Greek groups, but particularly Greek Macedonia. The others are in-between. An assorted band of Greeks from around 1800 and not a single Armenian amongst them.


https://i.imgur.com/FMHbhMr.png

I6935 clusters in the middle of the Cappadocian Greek cluster and doesn't really require any other admixture. So it's almost guaranteed they came from somewhere in Anatolia, most likely Central Anatolia. There are no Armenians who score like Greeks, even on 23andMe I have a very small amount of 100% Armenian matches with grandparent locations set as Izmir, Kayseri, Istanbul and they all score nearly 100% in the Iranian category. If any of them were much more western shifted like Greeks, they would be scoring very differently.

All of them lived recently enough such that it might be possible to work out where they actually came from through shared DNA with relatives rather than just looking at admixture. Would be interesting if the exact place some of these travelers came from could be pinpointed that way.

Andrewid
12-15-2020, 01:58 PM
I6935 clusters in the middle of the Cappadocian Greek cluster and doesn't really require any other admixture. So it's almost guaranteed they came from somewhere in Anatolia, most likely Central Anatolia. There are no Armenians who score like Greeks, even on 23andMe I have a very small amount of 100% Armenian matches with grandparent locations set as Izmir, Kayseri, Istanbul and they all score nearly 100% in the Iranian category. If any of them were much more western shifted like Greeks, they would be scoring very differently.

All of them lived recently enough such that it might be possible to work out where they actually came from through shared DNA with relatives rather than just looking at admixture. Would be interesting if the exact place some of these travelers came from could be pinpointed that way.

You are right about I6935. Closer to Central Anatolian Greeks than to me or the Dodecanese. Some of the others, such as I6936, look as if they are from the Greek Mainland. I2869 looks Cretan.

https://i.imgur.com/hpOt2s3.png

TonyC
12-15-2020, 05:19 PM
You’re right 16936 is definitely a mainland Greek.
Distance to: Anthony_C_scaled
0.03281082 IND_Roopkund_B:I6936
0.03461941 IND_Roopkund_B:I3404
0.04448695 IND_Roopkund_B:I3403
0.04769361 IND_Roopkund_B:I3405
0.04779837 IND_Roopkund_B:I3348
0.04863777 IND_Roopkund_B:I6937
0.05108071 IND_Roopkund_B:I6939
0.05342913 IND_Roopkund_B:I2869
0.05848252 IND_Roopkund_B:I3350
0.06543697 IND_Roopkund_B:I3345
0.08119543 IND_Roopkund_B_o:I6935

Sorcelow
12-17-2020, 09:30 PM
Something that I wanted to point out is that we only have a handful of ancient Greek samples to construct models with. I think that once we get new samples, we will see much more genetic diversity, and the cline will expand in all directions. We will see more CHG/IranN, Steppe, and BarcinN shifted individuals. An example of the same phenomenon can be seen in modern samples. When we only had three Peloponnesians in the G25 spreadsheets, the average was skewed toward the south, when in reality, there is much more diversity in region. Or similarly, we have 5 Neolithic Peloponnesians. Most of them resemble Anatolian farmers with a bit of CHG/IranN, but I3920 harbors a lot of west asian ancestry, even more than most Minoans. This tells us that migrations rich in CHG/IranN were already taking place during the Neolithic, and that some Peloponnesians during this period were recent migrants from across the Aegean, and probably resembled the Isparta_EBA samples. Now imagine if we weren't able to test I3920, the evidence for that would be much weaker.

lacreme
12-17-2020, 10:32 PM
Something that I wanted to point out is that we only have a handful of ancient Greek samples to construct models with. I think that once we get new samples, we will see much more genetic diversity, and the cline will expand in all directions. We will see more CHG/IranN, Steppe, and BarcinN shifted individuals. An example of the same phenomenon can be seen in modern samples. When we only had three Peloponnesians in the G25 spreadsheets, the average was skewed toward the south, when in reality, there is much more diversity in region. Or similarly, we have 5 Neolithic Peloponnesians. Most of them resemble Anatolian farmers with a bit of CHG/IranN, but I3920 harbors a lot of west asian ancestry, even more than most Minoans. This tells us that migrations rich in CHG/IranN were already taking place during the Neolithic, and that some Peloponnesians during this period were recent migrants from across the Aegean, and probably resembled the Isparta_EBA samples. Now imagine if we weren't able to test I3920, the evidence for that would be much weaker.

So could this be a reason why my friend, the results of whom I've posted many times, on various ancient models scores this specific sample at percentages ranging from almost 11% (official g25 list of individual ancient samples, ADC default ) up to 40% (if I use only the available ancient Greek+Balkan samples ) ? He has partial West Asian ancestry, a big part of which probably Cappadocian-like. This judging by his mother's results whose closest west asian population is Cappadocia and she is almost equidistant between Greek Macedonia and Greek Cappadocia at distances of 0,048 while Trabzon is further away.

While I haven't see any such results, the Greeks of fully native West Asian ancestry should score it* at very high percentages/be by far the main component, right ?

*when used instead of possibly similar Anatolian samples of close timeframes

Sorcelow
12-17-2020, 10:58 PM
So could this be a reason why my friend, the results of whom I've posted many times, on various ancient models scores this specific sample at percentages ranging from almost 11% (official g25 list of individual ancient samples, ADC default ) up to 40% (if I use only the available ancient Greek+Balkan samples ) ? He has partial West Asian ancestry, a big part of which probably Cappadocian-like. This judging by his mother's results whose closest west asian population is Cappadocia and she is almost equidistant between Greek Macedonia and Greek Cappadocia at distances of 0,048 while Trabzon is further away.

While I haven't see any such results, the Greeks of fully native West Asian ancestry should score it* at very high percentages/be by far the main component, right ?

*when used instead of possibly similar Anatolian samples of close timeframes

It could be, the nmonte script is designed to produce the tightest fits, which may or may not be accurate. Models can be manipulated based on what samples you use.

Anatolian Greeks will score it if you dont include any other CHG/IranN samples. If you do include them, then they may not. Its all about the algorithm trying to produce the best fit.

Also, I dont think there was any direct migration from central Anatolia to Greece. The migrants were likely from the Aegean region of Turkey, thats why I like using the Isparta samples.

xripkan
12-17-2020, 11:00 PM
Something that I wanted to point out is that we only have a handful of ancient Greek samples to construct models with. I think that once we get new samples, we will see much more genetic diversity, and the cline will expand in all directions. We will see more CHG/IranN, Steppe, and BarcinN shifted individuals. An example of the same phenomenon can be seen in modern samples. When we only had three Peloponnesians in the G25 spreadsheets, the average was skewed toward the south, when in reality, there is much more diversity in region. Or similarly, we have 5 Neolithic Peloponnesians. Most of them resemble Anatolian farmers with a bit of CHG/IranN, but I3920 harbors a lot of west asian ancestry, even more than most Minoans. This tells us that migrations rich in CHG/IranN were already taking place during the Neolithic, and that some Peloponnesians during this period were recent migrants from across the Aegean, and probably resembled the Isparta_EBA samples. Now imagine if we weren't able to test I3920, the evidence for that would be much weaker.

How much is the maximum Steppe ancestry according to your estimations among Iron Age Greeks? Not more than BGR_IA I suppose, right?

Sorcelow
12-17-2020, 11:04 PM
How much is the maximum Steppe ancestry according to your estimations among Iron Age Greeks? Not more than BGR_IA I suppose, right?

I remember David mentioned that the highest he saw was 30%, which would mean that it was more steppe admixed than BGR_IA.

Below is what he posted once:

Bronze Age samples range from quite a bit of steppe (clearly more than the current Mycenaeans) to basically none

And the thing with BGR_IA is that its only one sample! Who knows, maybe it was an outlier and other BGR_IA samples reveal much more steppe ancestry... or less.

xripkan
12-17-2020, 11:20 PM
I remember David mentioned that the highest he saw was 30%, which would mean that it was more steppe admixed than BGR_IA.

Below is what he posted once:

Bronze Age samples range from quite a bit of steppe (clearly more than the current Mycenaeans) to basically none

And the thing with BGR_IA is that its only one sample! Who knows, maybe it was an outlier and other BGR_IA samples reveal much more steppe ancestry.

Yes, I remember the 30%Steppe profile but it was dated to BA I think which makes sense. I expect highly Steppe admixed samples from BA but I doubt if such profiles existed in Iron Age Greece after the mix with the Minoan-like population.
What I also think is that we have few samples from Northern Balkans which indicate a genetic continuum in ancient Balkans. Would you expect a genetic profile similar to Cimmerian_o in Greece?

Sorcelow
12-17-2020, 11:28 PM
Yes, I remember the 30%Steppe profile but it was dated to BA I think which makes sense. I expect highly Steppe admixed samples from BA but I doubt if such profiles existed in Iron Age Greece after the mix with the Minoan-like population.
What I also think is that we have few samples from Northern Balkans which indicate a genetic continuum in ancient Balkans. Would you expect a genetic profile similar to Cimmerian_o in Greece?

I'm not sure I agree with you, but its an interesting take. If anything, I think steppe levels likely went up during the IA, probably with the entry of E-V13 rich migrants from the northwest.

I dont think we will see a profile similar to Cimmerian_o, because that sample seems to be a two way mixture between BarcinN and Yamnaya with minimal CHG/IranN. That extra West Asian ancestry was present in Greece since the neolithic. I expect to see the CHG/IranN range for the Iron Age to be 10-20%, and steppe levels to be anywhere from 0-30%.

David also said the Iron and Classical age samples are heterogenous, so we have a lot to look forward to.

TonyC
12-17-2020, 11:57 PM
I remember David mentioned that the highest he saw was 30%, which would mean that it was more steppe admixed than BGR_IA.

Below is what he posted once:

Bronze Age samples range from quite a bit of steppe (clearly more than the current Mycenaeans) to basically none

And the thing with BGR_IA is that its only one sample! Who knows, maybe it was an outlier and other BGR_IA samples reveal much more steppe ancestry... or less.

Do you sense that with more Iron and Bronze age samples we’ll see individuals with 30% Steppe. This could potentially draw modern mainlanders even closer to the ancients (possibly diminishIng Slavic influx) and/or reinforcing the notion that maybe the 7-8th c incursions was made up of sub Slavic Paleobalkans who were actually not that much different than the inhabitants of Mainland Greece.

Sorcelow
12-18-2020, 12:09 AM
Do you sense that with more Iron and Bronze age samples we’ll see individuals with 30% Steppe. This could potentially draw modern mainlanders even closer to the ancients (possibly diminishIng Slavic influx) and/or reinforcing the notion that maybe the 7-8th c incursions was made up of sub Slavic Paleobalkans who were actually not that much different than the inhabitants of Mainland Greece.

Possibly to some degree, not really sure. I think Polish like ancestry in Greece is generally within the range of 25-35%, with some individuals having more or else than that range. I am of the opinion that the Slavic migrants that settled Greece were Polish/Slovakian like, but there are others who believe that they mixed with natives in modern day Serbia before entering Greece. I am certainly open to it, but how could it definitively be proven? If we were to test the remains of many individuals from the same burial site and they all clustered with South Slavs, then I think it would be likely. But if we are only able to test a handful of individuals from various medieval burial sites in Greece and they turned out to cluster with south Slavs, then I think the argument is less convincing, because these individuals could simply be the offspring of one native and one Polish-like parent.

TonyC
12-18-2020, 12:16 AM
Possibly to some degree, not really sure. I think Polish like ancestry in Greece is generally within the range of 25-35%, with some individuals having more or else than that range. I am of the opinion that the Slavic migrants that settled Greece were Polish/Slovakian like, but there are others who believe that they mixed with natives in modern day Serbia before entering Greece. I think this is unlikely because the migrations were very swift, with Slavs being in Greece by the 6th century.
What makes you think they were Polish like? Are you basing it on gedmatch oracles for modern mainlanders?

xripkan
12-18-2020, 12:17 AM
I'm not sure I agree with you, but its an interesting take. If anything, I think steppe levels likely went up during the IA, probably with the entry of E-V13 rich migrants from the northwest.

I dont think we will see a profile similar to Cimmerian_o, because that sample seems to be a two way mixture between BarcinN and Yamnaya with minimal CHG/IranN. That extra West Asian ancestry was present in Greece since the neolithic. I expect to see the CHG/IranN range for the Iron Age to be 10-20%, and steppe levels to be anywhere from 0-30%.

David also said the Iron and Classical age samples are heterogenous, so we have a lot to look forward to.

We all expect the upcoming paper because now we have not enough data to make a safe conlcusion.
What I find more possible is that during Iron Age the maximum Steppe ancestry that existed among Greeks was aboout 20%, maybe a profile similar to DEU_MA_o. I think that there was a minority of BA Anatolian-like (or Anatolia-shifted) profiles due to Greek colonization in Western Anatolian coast.
However I think that during Hellenistic era after the hellenization of Southern Thracian and Anatolian peoples started a gene flow towards Greece related to higher Steppe ancestry (and increase of E-V13) profiles but also higher Iran N/CHG. This is what in my opinion gradually (until the end of early Byzantine era I would say) created an Imperial Roman-like profile.

Sorcelow
12-18-2020, 12:18 AM
What makes you think they were Polish like? Are you basing it on gedmatch oracles for modern mainlanders?

Because by the time they were in the Northern Balkans, they were also in Greece. If they first settled in modern day Serbia in the 6th century, and then only later migrated to Greece in the 8th or 9th centuries, then I see more evidence for them being South Slavic like.

Coldmountains
12-18-2020, 12:21 AM
Possibly to some degree, not really sure. I think Polish like ancestry in Greece is generally within the range of 25-35%, with some individuals having more or else than that range. I am of the opinion that the Slavic migrants that settled Greece were Polish/Slovakian like, but there are others who believe that they mixed with natives in modern day Serbia before entering Greece. I am certainly open to it, but how could it definitively be proven? If we were to test the remains of many individuals from the same burial site and they all clustered with South Slavs, then I think it would be likely. But if we are only able to test a handful of individuals from various medieval burial sites in Greece and they turned out to cluster with south Slavs, then I think the argument is less convincing, because these individuals could simply be the offspring of one native and one Polish-like parent.

There are early Slavic genomes from Hungary, Poland, Germany and Russia and they are mostly under a Belarusian-like cluster east of modern day Poles and Slovaks. So earliest Slavs migrating to the Balkan would rather resemble Belarusians than Poles or Slovaks. To resemble them they would need to pick up Germanic and Welzin-BA-like ancestry on their way to Greece what happened in some cases among early Balkan Slavs but unlikely was the case for all or most of them. Like we have seen in other parts of the early Slavic world the Proto-Slavic/Belarusian-like profile existed among Slavs in peripheral zones of the Balto-Slavic world even after centuries after they arrived there (Germany, Russia, Hungary) so i also think early Slavs in the Balkan had individuals with almost 100% Proto-Slavic-like ancestry and were not all already Serbian-like when they arrived in Greece.

Sorcelow
12-18-2020, 12:23 AM
There are early Slavic genomes from Hungary, Poland, Germany and Russia and they are mostly under a Belarusian-like cluster east of modern day Poles and Slovaks. So earliest Slavs migrating to the Balkan would rather resemble Belarusians than Poles or Slovaks. To resemble them they would need to pick up Germanic and Welzin-BA-like ancestry on their way to Greece what happened in some cases among early Balkan Slavs but unlikely was the case for all or most of them.

I thought that the Early_Slav and Avar_Szolad samples were pretty Slovakian/Polish like, but maybe I'm wrong.

Coldmountains
12-18-2020, 12:28 AM
I thought that the Early_Slav and Avar_Szolad samples were pretty Slovakian/Polish like, but maybe I'm wrong.

Some are but they seem to have recent Germanic and Central Euro admix. Many other individuals cluster rather with Belarusians, Ukrainians and even some Russians. Unlike the Slovak/Polish-like genetic profile of some early Slavs such kind of genetic profile among Slavs in Germany, Poland or Hungary can not be explained with admixture with locals and must come from a "recent" migration which very likely was the migration of early Slavs.

Johnny ola
12-18-2020, 12:34 AM
Some are but they seem to have recent Germanic and Central Euro admix. Many other individuals cluster rather with Belarusians, Ukrainians and even some Russians. Unlike the Slovak/Polish-like genetic profile of some early Slavs such kind of genetic profile among Slavs in Germany, Poland or Hungary can not be explained with admixture with locals and must come from a "recent" migration which very likely was the migration of early Slavs.

So,in some way to say that Proto-Slavs were closer to modern Eastern Slavs because Western Slavs have a more western genetic profiile?But to me it dosn't makng sense that the Slavs who arrived in Greece had such profile...because the most northern shifted Greeks plotting closer to Bulgaria(and even those who plot there have actually crypto-Bulgarian roots).Don't you think that the Slavs who come here were pretty much South Slavic like?Or you expect to see individuals being Belarusian-Ukranian like if we ever gonna have samples from Slavic raiders to Greece?

Coldmountains
12-18-2020, 12:41 AM
So,in some way to say that Proto-Slavs were closer to modern Eastern Slavs because Western Slavs have a more western genetic profiile?But to me it dosn't makng sense that the Slavs who arrived in Greece had such profile...because the most northern shifted Greeks plotting closer to Bulgaria(and even those who plot there have actually crypto-Bulgarian roots).Don't you think that the Slavs who come here were pretty much South Slavic like?Or you expect to see individuals being Belarusian-Ukranian like if we ever gonna have samples from Slavic raiders to Greece?

I rather meant that their genetic profile was mostly on a cline between local Balkan people and Proto-Slavs (Belarusian-like) with some individuals being close to 100% Proto-Slavic-like and some rather Serbian-like or even slightly more southern shifted. Something similar we see among early Slavic samples from Poland, Hungary or Germany where some are clustering with Belarusians, some with Slovaks and some are even more western.

Johnny ola
12-18-2020, 12:46 AM
I rather meant that their genetic profile was mostly on a cline between local Balkan people and Proto-Slavs (Belarusian-like) with some individuals being close to 100% Proto-Slavic-like and some rather Serbian-like or even slightly more southern shifted. Something similar we see among early Slavic samples from Poland, Hungary or Germany where some are clustering with Belarusians, some with Slovaks and some are even more western.

I see.Do you see the Carpathian lands as the Proto-Slavs homeland or it might be somewhere north/northeastern?

TuaMan
12-18-2020, 01:13 AM
I know the vast majority of R1a and I2a1 in Greece is due to Slavic migrations, but what's the overall percentage?

One way to guesstimate whether Slavs who mixed with Greeks were already South-Slavic like instead of being pure proto-Slavic-like would be to figure how much Slavic mtDNA exists in Greece - if Slavic mtDNA is nearly comparable in percentage to Slavic y-DNA than that's probably a good indicator that they were mostly pure proto-Slavs, but if there's much less Slavic mtDNA in modern Greeks than that would maybe mean they were already pretty Balkanic in ancestry by the time they reached Greece.

gjenetiks
12-18-2020, 01:47 AM
If we were to put an auDNA percentage on avg Greek per region for slavic admix what would be most accurate estimate?

TonyC
12-18-2020, 02:31 AM
If we were to put an auDNA percentage on avg Greek for slavic admix what would be most accurate estimate?

5% Southern Peloponnese (Mani, Tsakonia)
10-15% Rest of Peloponnese
15% Rumeli/Epirus
15-20% Thessaly
20% Macedonia
(These are just my personal guesses)

TuaMan
12-18-2020, 02:37 AM
Which region has more Arvanite DNA, the Peloponnese or Attica? Is this something anyone's even tried to quantify, is it even possible to really measure given how similar Greeks and Albanians are already?

TonyC
12-18-2020, 02:51 AM
Which region has more Arvanite DNA, the Peloponnese or Attica? Is this something anyone's even tried to quantify, is it even possible to really measure given how similar Greeks and Albanians are already?

Probably the Peloponnese based on the number of Arvanite villages but hey I'm far from an expert on this subject. My first population with G25 individual samples is Albanian so the closeness/proximity is real.

Sorcelow
12-18-2020, 02:57 AM
Which region has more Arvanite DNA, the Peloponnese or Attica? Is this something anyone's even tried to quantify, is it even possible to really measure given how similar Greeks and Albanians are already?

Attica and Boeotia have the largest concentration of Arvanite villages, followed by the northeastern Peloponnese.

gjenetiks
12-18-2020, 02:58 AM
Attica and Boeotia have the largest concentration of Arvanite villages, followed by the northeastern Peloponnese.

Interesting. Is there a stat on how many still speak Arvanitika?

Sorcelow
12-18-2020, 03:07 AM
Interesting. Is there a stat on how many still speak Arvanitika?

I dont think there are any modern figures, but the total population of Arvanite villages in 1907 was 236k

https://www.lithoksou.net/2020/11/arvanites.html?m=1

dosas
12-18-2020, 11:47 AM
If we were to put an auDNA percentage on avg Greek per region for slavic admix what would be most accurate estimate?


Table as a relative proxy, with S. Slavic neighbors (averages, scaled, pen=0):


41799

Andrewid
12-18-2020, 05:58 PM
I have a question for people who visit this thread.

What in your opinion are the factors leading to the firece local identity of Pontian Greeks in Greece, Cyprus and the Western diaspora? In my experience, they have a stronger sense of regional identity than most other Greeks. In Greece, we are often now speaking of the 5th generation. Many Greek citizens of Pontic origin are very keen to mention their origins. Many Pontic cultural associations exist throughout Greece, promoting the history, music and dances of their group. I notice many of the younger generation in Greece sing in the Pontic dialect. But how many actually speak Pontic Greek? Is the language given any formalised teaching?

One obvious reason for the proud identity is loss of homeland. But Cappadocian Greeks have not survived in the same way. Cretans also have a strong sense of local identity but those settled on the mainland would have been completely absorbed by the 5th generation. The same applies to Cypriots settled in Greece. Even on the current series of Greek Big Brother, those from northern Greece of Pontian origin have been very quick to declare their Pontic identity. Fascinating.

Markos
12-18-2020, 06:04 PM
I have a question for people who visit this thread.

What in your opinion are the factors leading to the firece local identity of Pontian Greeks in Greece, Cyprus and the Western diaspora? In my experience, they have a stronger sense of regional identity than most other Greeks. In Greece, we are often now speaking of the 5th generation. Many Greek citizens of Pontic origin are very keen to mention their origins. Many Pontic cultural associations exist throughout Greece, promoting the history, music and dances of their group. I notice many of the younger generation in Greece sing in the Pontic dialect. But how many actually speak Pontic Greek? Is the language given any formalised teaching?

One obvious reason for the proud identity is loss of homeland. But Cappadocian Greeks have not survived in the same way. Cretans also have a strong sense of local identity but those settled on the mainland would have been completely absorbed by the 5th generation. The same applies to Cypriots settled in Greece. Even on the current series of Greek Big Brother, those from northern Greece of Pontian origin have been very quick to declare their Pontic identity. Fascinating.

That is interesting. In Canada, while they all know of their specific origins, every Pontic Greek I have spoken with say they are "Greek from Thessaloniki". They will participate in Pontic Greek music, but I think it's considered, as you said, simply a 'regional' tradition that is still coated exclusively within the larger Greek ethnos.

dosas
12-18-2020, 07:20 PM
I have a question for people who visit this thread.




It's been passed unto us by our grandparents. For us mixed folks, it completely eviscerated the other parent's regional identity as children, as you say. I guess they were distinctly culturally, linguistically, and even phenotypically different to the rest of the Greeks, I speak only from personal experiences and for my own folks who were the 20s arrivals, I don't presume to speak for the 90s folks. The dialect, I understand it 100% but I don't speak it properly, only here and there, beginning the sentence with gerunds/infinitives throws off my syntax, that is wired into modern Greek.

My grandfather, as a kid, used to call me "Λαζάκι μαγκάκι", "Little Lazic dude", in free translation.

Johnny ola
12-18-2020, 07:58 PM
I have a question for people who visit this thread.

What in your opinion are the factors leading to the firece local identity of Pontian Greeks in Greece, Cyprus and the Western diaspora? In my experience, they have a stronger sense of regional identity than most other Greeks. In Greece, we are often now speaking of the 5th generation. Many Greek citizens of Pontic origin are very keen to mention their origins. Many Pontic cultural associations exist throughout Greece, promoting the history, music and dances of their group. I notice many of the younger generation in Greece sing in the Pontic dialect. But how many actually speak Pontic Greek? Is the language given any formalised teaching?

One obvious reason for the proud identity is loss of homeland. But Cappadocian Greeks have not survived in the same way. Cretans also have a strong sense of local identity but those settled on the mainland would have been completely absorbed by the 5th generation. The same applies to Cypriots settled in Greece. Even on the current series of Greek Big Brother, those from northern Greece of Pontian origin have been very quick to declare their Pontic identity. Fascinating.


Who's from big brother is Pontic Greek xD :)???They all look typical mainland Greeks to me :biggrin1:


Now to answer your question.Modern generations are becoming more and more agnostic and secular.As Dosas mention, personally i don't speak the dialect proper.. but i can understand pretty much everything.Also most people today are mixed everywhere in Greece especially in Northern Greece where you can see intermarriages between Pontians and locals, or even with Vlachs/Sarakatsanis(something crazy before 90s.)IMO Eastern Pontic Greeks are the most isolated group from the Greek world.All the others somehow have many cultural similarities and even similar identity i would say.Mainland Greeks are very close to each other,Greek islanders are also close between them and they share some things with Greeks from mainland.Anatolian Greeks are very close to each other especially Cappadocians,Costantinoupoli and Smyrna Greeks sharing the Ottoman culture and customs.In this group i would inclunde even Western Pontians who are closer to Cappadocian Greeks and most of them were Turkophone speakers or bilingual.IMO eastern Pontians are a new group to Greece that they stayed pretty much isolated from the Ottoman empire and the Neo-Greek state.We are talking probably for the most consersative group maybe along with some isolated populations of Peloponnese like Tsakonians and Maniots who kept their own traditions,dialects,customs etc.Cypriots i think are a similar case.But again Pontic Greeks IMO are a very distant group compared to the other Greeks.But things seems to changing now especially with the new generations.

Andrewid
12-18-2020, 09:14 PM
Dimarhos was proudly Pontian. And the Benzi guy suddenly said zito o Pontos a few days ago, I don't know if he was just being loyal to his old pal. You're actually right the latter doesn't look Pontian at all. Sofia is a Pontian originally from Abhazia:) The series of Apo Topo Se Topo always has Pontic folk groups popping up all over the country. A joy to watch.

I personally find it very difficult to understand Pontian. I met a family who invited us to their home in Tbilisi. That's how friendly they are, especially in the diaspora. Fortunately, one of those present could speak demotic Greek and sometimes had to act as a translator. Degree of intelligibility about 40% I'd say. I seemed to have a greater degree of intelligibility with the Griko of Puglia, but that may have been a fluke and hardly scientific!

Johnny ola
12-18-2020, 09:19 PM
Dimarhos was proudly Pontian. And the Benzi guy suddenly said zito o Pontos a few days ago, I don't know if he was just being loyal to his old pal. You're actually right the latter doesn't look Pontian at all. Sofia is a Pontian originally from Abhazia:) The series of Apo Topo Se Topo always has Pontic folk groups popping up all over the country. A joy to watch.

Oh,i thought you were talking about the finalists.Yes dimarhos is an uber Pontian face.Sofia too.Benzi is the tall,blonde haired guy?He does not look i think.

Andrewid
12-18-2020, 09:32 PM
Oh,i thought you were talking about the finalists.Yes dimarhos is an uber Pontian face.Sofia too.Benzi is the tall,blonde haired guy?He does not look i think.

Agreed. I know it's naughty but I often play spot the Pontian on shows like the Voice- I sometimes leave other family members speechless with my correct gueses. What's odd is 4th or 5th generation contestants feeling the need to mention their regional background! Mind you, I have an apparent very distant ancestor from Trabzon and many members of the family, including me, are transfixed with discovering more!

TonyC
12-18-2020, 09:32 PM
I have a question for people who visit this thread.

What in your opinion are the factors leading to the firece local identity of Pontian Greeks in Greece, Cyprus and the Western diaspora? In my experience, they have a stronger sense of regional identity than most other Greeks. In Greece, we are often now speaking of the 5th generation. Many Greek citizens of Pontic origin are very keen to mention their origins. Many Pontic cultural associations exist throughout Greece, promoting the history, music and dances of their group. I notice many of the younger generation in Greece sing in the Pontic dialect. But how many actually speak Pontic Greek? Is the language given any formalised teaching?

One obvious reason for the proud identity is loss of homeland. But Cappadocian Greeks have not survived in the same way. Cretans also have a strong sense of local identity but those settled on the mainland would have been completely absorbed by the 5th generation. The same applies to Cypriots settled in Greece. Even on the current series of Greek Big Brother, those from northern Greece of Pontian origin have been very quick to declare their Pontic identity. Fascinating.

I love Pontic music it’s so much more interesting and enthralling than the music from my part of Greece. I went to a Pontic music performance when I lived in NY during graduate school and loved it

Johnny ola
12-18-2020, 09:44 PM
Agreed. I know it's naughty but I often play spot the Pontian on shows like the Voice- I sometimes leave other family members speechless with my correct gueses. What's odd is 4th or 5th generation contestants feeling the need to mention their regional background! Mind you, I have an apparent very distant ancestor from Trabzon and many members of the family, including me, are transfixed with discovering more!

All the Greek ethnic groups are interesting and all of them are proud for their roots and origins.To me Mani and Maniots are in some way my favourite.Sadly they are a small community!!!

dosas
12-18-2020, 09:59 PM
I think the Thracians have the best music, a fusion of 3+ musical traditions, Balkan-Slavic, Greek and West Asian. Very melodic rhythms and melodies, especially those songs from the Ottoman era.



https://youtu.be/wlsV9dqlmw8


https://youtu.be/i4X8wScj5Ng

trdbr1234
12-18-2020, 10:15 PM
I think the Thracians have the best music, a fusion of 3+ musical traditions, Balkan-Slavic, Greek and West Asian. Very melodic rhythms and melodies, especially those songs from the Ottoman era.



https://youtu.be/wlsV9dqlmw8


https://youtu.be/i4X8wScj5Ng

Sounds so similar to some songs from North Macedonia with a Mainland Greek element.

Reminds me what a cluster f*** the Balkans is. Everyone is culturally indistinguishable with arbitrary borders and exaggerated nationalism.

Greekscholar
12-18-2020, 10:22 PM
I've never met a Pontic Greek in person, at least none that have proclaimed it as such.

In my experience, unless both parents are from the same part of Greece, any sort of regional identity is gone by the 2nd generation, 3rd at most in America. I have lots of unadmixed Greek cousins that don't know anything about Fourni, and I mean ANYTHING, and it is 1/2 or 1/4 of their ancestry. Warren OH, is the probably the only place in the US where enough Fourniotes immigrated that there is still a community identity there among part Fourniotes. I've met 2nd generations Greeks who are fluent speakers, go to GO church every week, etc., but again can only vaguely describe where their family lives in Greece.

Cretans.....now that is a different story. Cretans vs. everybody else tends to be the battle lines within the Greek community, especially the Church, at least the ones around where I live.

gjenetiks
12-18-2020, 11:38 PM
Table as a relative proxy, with S. Slavic neighbors (averages, scaled, pen=0):


41799

Wow, Dodecanese are pure-Greek holy crap

gjenetiks
12-18-2020, 11:40 PM
We Albanians need to make a table like this ^^^ per various regions.

TonyC
12-18-2020, 11:59 PM
I've never met a Pontic Greek in person, at least none that have proclaimed it as such.

In my experience, unless both parents are from the same part of Greece, any sort of regional identity is gone by the 2nd generation, 3rd at most in America. I have lots of unadmixed Greek cousins that don't know anything about Fourni, and I mean ANYTHING, and it is 1/2 or 1/4 of their ancestry. Warren OH, is the probably the only place in the US where enough Fourniotes immigrated that there is still a community identity there among part Fourniotes. I've met 2nd generations Greeks who are fluent speakers, go to GO church every week, etc., but again can only vaguely describe where their family lives in Greece.

Cretans.....now that is a different story. Cretans vs. everybody else tends to be the battle lines within the Greek community, especially the Church, at least the ones around where I live.
You’re absolutely right about the Cretans. Super proud folks! Both of my parents’ lineage was Peloponnesian and my first wife was (by chance) a full Peloponnesian and I met her at an AHEPA convention (folks may not know what that is).Hell I never dated a Greek until I met her!

Andrewid
12-19-2020, 12:45 AM
Benza (Dimitris Birgidis) announced on the Greek final of Big Brother tonight that he is indeed a Pontian. So much for my abilities to spot them!:doh:

Very apt that a Cretan won and Pontians came second and third!

My own soft spot is for Crete and its regional culture. Love the island and consider myself an hourary Cretan (but they won't have me;)).

This is certainly worth watching- Cretans meet Pontians on the dance floor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0wJQ1jCcK8 (full video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsWrnuIo7xY (extract)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um1qcrBbliE (More Pontian/Cretan fusion)

And these Cretans (relatives of the late great Nikos Xylouris) blow me away:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ECFFcrz0go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDNAim3oano

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQIMklbe62s


And something from our new rising star in Cyprus, Dimitris Mesimeris:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52LN69prMxQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUXRQdSebBk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqWGXUhUqeU


And finally, one for the road, delving into Rembetika and our Asia Minor heritage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIPfPJWg3gA

Those interested in Greek dialects might like to hear the Cypriot dialect...by visiting Rhodes:):

Explains the close relationship felt by these contiguous areas of Hellenism :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwKfSSNybPQ

Andrewid
12-19-2020, 01:13 AM
Table as a relative proxy, with S. Slavic neighbors (averages, scaled, pen=0):


41799

Thanks. Can you include the Cypriots, including the new ones, to the table? Very interesting.

Johnny ola
12-19-2020, 03:58 AM
Benza (Dimitris Birgidis) announced on the Greek final of Big Brother tonight that he is indeed a Pontian. So much for my abilities to spot them!:doh:

Very apt that a Cretan won and Pontians came second and third!

My own soft spot is for Crete and its regional culture. Love the island and consider myself an hourary Cretan (but they won't have me;)).

This is certainly worth watching- Cretans meet Pontians on the dance floor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0wJQ1jCcK8 (full video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsWrnuIo7xY (extract)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um1qcrBbliE (More Pontian/Cretan fusion)

And these Cretans (relatives of the late great Nikos Xylouris) blow me away:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ECFFcrz0go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDNAim3oano

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQIMklbe62s


And something from our new rising star in Cyprus, Dimitris Mesimeris:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52LN69prMxQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUXRQdSebBk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqWGXUhUqeU


And finally, one for the road, delving into Rembetika and our Asia Minor heritage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIPfPJWg3gA

Those interested in Greek dialects might like to hear the Cypriot dialect...by visiting Rhodes:):

Explains the close relationship felt by these contiguous areas of Hellenism :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwKfSSNybPQ

That guy Pirgidis looks like a German lel. Is he 100% Pontian??? :lol:

dosas
12-19-2020, 06:48 AM
Thanks. Can you include the Cypriots, including the new ones, to the table? Very interesting.


41823

Andrewid
12-19-2020, 10:26 AM
That guy Pirgidis looks like a German lel. Is he 100% Pontian??? :lol:

No way is he fully Pontian! But again this shows how the other admixtures fade away and what stands out is a fierce pride about Pontian identity. Perhaps part of it stems from the personal experience of the first Pontian refugees arriving in Greece. As the lyrics of the classic Stelios Kazantzidis song say >>Στα ξενα ειμαι Ελληνας, και στην Ελλαδα ξενος<< (in foreign lands I am Greek, whilst in Greece I am foreign).

Andrewid
12-19-2020, 02:24 PM
41823

Thanks Dosas. As we've said before, there is no evidence of Slavic admixture in Cypriots. The Polish proxy is obviously picking up some other Steppe admixture, which Johnny identified too. (of course, never say never, but there is nothing so far in the historical record, or in toponyms, evidencing Slav settlement). I wonder if some of this Steppe could make up a part of the extremely low 'Slav' admixture in the Dodecanese too. Out of interest, how much 'Polish' do Epirote Greeks score? I suppose the Polish proxy would suck up and disguise what we might call 'Balkano-Illyrian'?

dosas
12-19-2020, 03:45 PM
Thanks Dosas. As we've said before, there is no evidence of Slavic admixture in Cypriots. The Polish proxy is obviously picking up some other Steppe admixture, which Johnny identified too. (of course, never say never, but there is nothing so far in the historical record, or in toponyms, evidencing Slav settlement). I wonder if some of this Steppe could make up a part of the extremely low 'Slav' admixture in the Dodecanese too. Out of interest, how much 'Polish' do Epirote Greeks score? I suppose the Polish proxy would suck up and disguise what we might call 'Balkano-Illyrian'?


The Polish in the Cyprus percentages is probably proxy for a northern element, like you say, but it could also be Slavic admixture from the colonists of the Ottoman era that repopulated the island heavily after its capture by the Ottomans in 1571. Hadjiioannou (1976) mentions that this repopulation took place mainly with new colonists of Anatolian, Armenian, and Greek (from the mainland) settlers. So, these populations, by the end of the 16th century, would be carrying the Slavic admixture the rest of the country did also.

I don't find something peculiar about that, you don't need to bypass 3000 years worth of history of population movements in order to explain admixtures. The Cypriots obviously have recent Medieval admixture like everyone else.

Andrewid
12-19-2020, 07:25 PM
The Polish in the Cyprus percentages is probably proxy for a northern element, like you say, but it could also be Slavic admixture from the colonists of the Ottoman era that repopulated the island heavily after its capture by the Ottomans in 1571. Hadjiioannou (1976) mentions that this repopulation took place mainly with new colonists of Anatolian, Armenian, and Greek (from the mainland) settlers. So, these populations, by the end of the 16th century, would be carrying the Slavic admixture the rest of the country did also.

I don't find something peculiar about that, you don't need to bypass 3000 years worth of history of population movements in order to explain admixtures. The Cypriots obviously have recent Medieval admixture like everyone else.

Tbh, there's no evidence of massive repopulation adding to the Christian gene pool after 1571. Hadjiioannou was focusing more on the origins of the Muslim population and he undoubtedy was trying to establish a Christian/Crypto-Christian origin for the Turkish Cypriot populations. I was even in written communication with him as a boy! You've actually mentioned one of my boyhood heroes! He's long passed away now but made some important contributions to Cypriot history, along with Costas Kyris and Theodoros Papadopoulos. They all inspired me to eventually begin historical research on Cyprus.

Part of Hadjiioannou's aim was to show that not all arrivals were Muslim in the first place. His work on the Turkish Cypriots was followed by that of Paraskevas Samaras and others. There were undoubtedly Ottoman Firmans after 1571 and some people did come in. I've even found mention of them in European archives. But the evidence so far is that the numbers were limited (certainly as regards Christians) and influenced more the creation of a loyal Muslim population on the island. Some of the Ottoman Firmans were never enforced- primary evidence I have seen and will publish. There is ample evidence in primary sources, that once the Ottomans secured Cyprus, they kept it as a complete backwater, largely forgotten by the central administration and a place for Ottoman exiles, particularly in Famagusta.

And I'm not looking for Steppe neceserally from Slavs of course. I'm just saying there's no evidence of Slav settlement. We do, on the other hand, have local tales of the 'Alamani'. Overall, we can say the Steppe element may be something from ancient times but also through the long period of Byzantine or Latin Medieval rule. Post 1571 much less likely. I've never said there's anything peculiar about admixtures occurring- your word not mine:)

And Epirotes, how much 'Polish' do they possess?

dosas
12-19-2020, 07:34 PM
Hajiioannou mentions that the Ottoman records name the settlers as mostly giaours. The population of the island in the 16th century was small enough that those settlements had an impact. What really happened is definetely an object of historical debate, but going from recorded Medieval history to Iron Age Illyrians is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion.

Andrewid
12-19-2020, 08:02 PM
Hajiioannou mentions that the Ottoman records name the settlers as mostly giaours. The population of the island in the 16th century was small enough that those settlements had an impact. What really happened is definetely an object of historical debate, but going from recorded Medieval history to Iron Age Illyrians is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion.

And Ottoman historians often come up with something else. It's an open course for historical debate. But remember the Ottomans did not directly attack the Greek population during the 1570-71 sieges. The enemy was the Latin ruling class and various Catholic/Uniate communities on the island. Many of the answers lie in the archives of the Cypriot Archbishopric, where I've already had the privilege to research. Not sure you get my interpretation: "going from recorded Medieval history to Iron Age Illyrians is a bit of a stretch". I'm just saying that this Steppe pulse could have happened at any time and not necessarily all at once.

Johnny ola
12-19-2020, 08:08 PM
And Ottoman historians often come up with something else. It's an open course for historical debate. But remember the Ottomans did not directly attack the Greek population during the 1570-71 sieges. The enemy was the Latin ruling class and various Catholic/Uniate communities on the island. Many of the answers lie in the archives of the Cypriot Archbishopric, where I've already had the privilege to research. Not sure you get my interpretation: "going from recorded Medieval history to Iron Age Illyrians is a bit of a stretch". I'm just saying that this Steppe pulse could have happened at any time and not necessarily all at once.

If you want to look for mainland Greek input in Cyprus you have to look for ydna/clades.Do you know any Cypriot being R1a or any I2din or maybe EV13 lineages?I think such lineages testify mainland Greek settlement.

Andrewid
12-19-2020, 11:46 PM
If you want to look for mainland Greek input in Cyprus you have to look for ydna/clades.Do you know any Cypriot being R1a or any I2din or maybe EV13 lineages?I think such lineages testify mainland Greek settlement.

The two main studies on this are, of course:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0179474 (Heraclides study) and

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13323-016-0032-8 (Voskarides study)

The S6 Table in the Heraclides study gives a good comparison between the two studies.

But I wasn't thinking specifically about Greek settlement above.

dosas
12-20-2020, 08:26 AM
Empuries2 optimal fits and oracles with Genoplot's function:

Mixed mode:

41846
41847

2-way:

41848
41849

dosas
12-20-2020, 08:28 AM
4 way:


41851
41852

dosas
12-21-2020, 10:15 PM
The following is based on ethnographic info I have collected over some time. No concrete final conclusion has been reached from my part (yet), but feel free to comment.

In 1968, a group of "Official Pontic Greek Associations" (mainly from Thessaloniki) issued a raging announcement, directed at the government of the military Junta of the time, demanding the outright ban and destruction (!) of a popular LP record of the same year, containing popular folk and neo-folk songs of Pontic Greek origin, named ""Ζεί Ζεί και μας είπανε Λαζοί" or "(We) live, (we) live, and they call us Lazes" (translation mine).

Among others, there was a very popular song with the lyrics "Λαζοί είμες, Λαζοί είμες, Λαζιών σκυλ παιδία σα χέρια μουν κρατούμε μαχαίρια και σπαθία" or "(We are) the Lazes, (we are) the Lazes, of Lazic (wolves/dogs?) children (we're born) with knives and swords in our hands."

The Junta government agreed and the LP record was banned/destroyed (!) promptly, but not w/o becoming a huge success in the Pontic diaspora where such restrictions could not be applied (I am still actively searching for a hard copy, btw).

Among Pontic Greeks, at least from my own experience as well as from other literal sources, the term "Laz" keeps popping up constantly, even up to the mid 1990s, as a nickname or a self-designating term. For example, it was popularized to refer to the Pontic diaspora of Germany as the "Λαζογερμανοί" or the "Lazes from Germany/Lazo-germans".

When it comes to last names, it's very common to find Pontic Greeks with names such as Lazopoulos (the child of the Laz), Lazakis (little Laz), Lazos (Laz) or Lazaridis (... of the Laz, although someone would argue that this last one derives from the name Lazarus). There are also several villages/neighborhoods in Greece called Lazica, Lazochori, etc.

The Empire of Trebizond is referred by the Byzantine Emperors and writers of the time as the Principality of the Lazes, and the Komnenian Emperors as the Princes of the Lazes. The Patriarchate designated the name of the religious authority of Trebizond as the Metropolis of Lazica. Some would argue that this was made as an attempt to delegitimize the contention of the Komnenians to the Constantinopolitan throne but I am not entirely convinced this was the case. The Patriarchate had no visible reason to take such an obvious open stance of support towards the Palaiologos and the Laskarides, at least in my opinion.

Up until their arrival to Greece with the Treaty of Lausanne, the Pontic Greeks only use two terms to describe themselves, Romans/Romaioi (their Imperial/Ottoman civic identity tied to their religion?) and Lazes/Λαζοί (their ethnic identity?).

Why am I sharing all this? I am not trying to say that all Pontic Greeks are Hellenised Laz, and that's because I believe that the Pontic Greek is an umbrella term that refers to all Greco-Roman Byzantine subjects west of Marmara, encompassing a variety of ethnic groups, such as Armenians, Turks, Anatolians, Crimean Urums, Caucasian Mamelouks, and so on. But I do believe that there was a big group of Lazic origins that was included under that umbrella term, in order for the term Laz-Λαζός to be popularized to such extent. After some casual talks I had with Lazes from Rize, interested in such historical and ethnographic issues, they shared with me that it always posed a mystery to them as to what happened to the Lazes of Trabzon, where did they disappear to? Could it be that we have an answer to this question?

Food for thought.

Johnny ola
12-22-2020, 12:45 AM
The following is based on ethnographic info I have collected over some time. No concrete final conclusion has been reached from my part (yet), but feel free to comment.

In 1968, a group of "Official Pontic Greek Associations" (mainly from Thessaloniki) issued a raging announcement, directed at the government of the military Junta of the time, demanding the outright ban and destruction (!) of a popular LP record of the same year, containing popular folk and neo-folk songs of Pontic Greek origin, named ""Ζεί Ζεί και μας είπανε Λαζοί" or "(We) live, (we) live, and they call us Lazes" (translation mine).

Among others, there was a very popular song with the lyrics "Λαζοί είμες, Λαζοί είμες, Λαζιών σκυλ παιδία σα χέρια μουν κρατούμε μαχαίρια και σπαθία" or "(We are) the Lazes, (we are) the Lazes, of Lazic (wolves/dogs?) children (we're born) with knives and swords in our hands."

The Junta government agreed and the LP record was banned/destroyed (!) promptly, but not w/o becoming a huge success in the Pontic diaspora where such restrictions could not be applied (I am still actively searching for a hard copy, btw).

Among Pontic Greeks, at least from my own experience as well as from other literal sources, the term "Laz" keeps popping up constantly, even up to the mid 1990s, as a nickname or a self-designating term. For example, it was popularized to refer to the Pontic diaspora of Germany as the "Λαζογερμανοί" or the "Lazes from Germany/Lazo-germans".

When it comes to last names, it's very common to find Pontic Greeks with names such as Lazopoulos (the child of the Laz), Lazakis (little Laz), Lazos (Laz) or Lazaridis (... of the Laz, although someone would argue that this last one derives from the name Lazarus). There are also several villages/neighborhoods in Greece called Lazica, Lazochori, etc.

The Empire of Trebizond is referred by the Byzantine Emperors and writers of the time as the Principality of the Lazes, and the Komnenian Emperors as the Princes of the Lazes. The Patriarchate designated the name of the religious authority of Trebizond as the Metropolis of Lazica. Some would argue that this was made as an attempt to delegitimize the contention of the Komnenians to the Constantinopolitan throne but I am not entirely convinced this was the case. The Patriarchate had no visible reason to take such an obvious open stance of support towards the Palaiologos and the Laskarides, at least in my opinion.

Up until their arrival to Greece with the Treaty of Lausanne, the Pontic Greeks only use two terms to describe themselves, Romans/Romaioi (their Imperial/Ottoman civic identity tied to their religion?) and Lazes/Λαζοί (their ethnic identity?).

Why am I sharing all this? I am not trying to say that all Pontic Greeks are Hellenised Laz, and that's because I believe that the Pontic Greek is an umbrella term that refers to all Greco-Roman Byzantine subjects west of Marmara, encompassing a variety of ethnic groups, such as Armenians, Turks, Anatolians, Crimean Urums, Caucasian Mamelouks, and so on. But I do believe that there was a big group of Lazic origins that was included under that umbrella term, in order for the term Laz-Λαζός to be popularized to such extent. After some casual talks I had with Lazes from Rize, interested in such historical and ethnographic issues, they shared with me that it always posed a mystery to them as to what happened to the Lazes of Trabzon, where did they disappear to? Could it be that we have an answer to this question?

Food for thought.



Yes, there are influences of Laz people to Eastern-Pontic Greeks and its obvious also from yDNA.Some lineages can be seen among Pontic Greeks,Laz,Hemsheni Armenians and to some Georgians.

https://easternblackseadna.blogspot.com/2017/12/y-dna-differences-and-similarities.html


Laz people arrived in Eastern Pontus during the middle ages,a period where Arabs were conquering Anatolia and Caucasus.They found a hideway at Eastern Pontus and more specific in modern provinces of Artvin and Rize to escape from Arabs.Before they come to Pontus they would have been genetically similar to Georgians but its obvious from the samples we have that some of them mixed with Eastern Pontic people,thus they become more East Med admixed.Armenian Hemsheni are a similar case.They are Armenians who left their lands and they settled to Eastern Pontus to escape from Arabs as well..and they mixed hardly with Eastern Pontic people.Later during the Empire of Trebizond many Laz people and other Georgians took high ranking positions in the empire.They were an imporant minority.Many of them become Pontic Greeks to escape from Ottomans and Islam later..but the majority converted to Islam.Armenian Hemsheni have converted to Islam as well.

The point is all of them sharing the same native population.They are descendent from Colchians who were Kartvelian speakers.The big diffrence is that Pontic Greeks have the position of being in Anatolia,thus they are mixed with Anatolian people and that is making them more BA Anatolian admixed.Laz people are between Georgians and Pontic Greeks with some of them being more caucasian while others sharing the Eastern Pontic profile.Armenian Hemsheni are also very Eastern Pontic by genetics.Georgians on the other hand are a pure south caucasian group. Azkhabians also sharing this Colchian related ancestry and they are very close to Georgians but some of them have mixed with Northwest Caucasian people.The mystery with Eastern Pontic Genetics is the 'L' lineages that we can find in pretty much all the easternblacksea groups.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchian_culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koban_culture

TonyC
12-22-2020, 03:00 AM
Empuries2 optimal fits and oracles with Genoplot's function:

Mixed mode:

41846
41847

2-way:

41848
41849

How would you break this down into ancient ancestral components? 80% EEF (Sardinian/Cretan/Trabzon combined) with additional CHG from Cretan/Trabzon.

Johnny ola
12-22-2020, 10:32 AM
How would you break this down into ancient ancestral components? 80% EEF (Sardinian/Cretan/Trabzon combined) with additional CHG from Cretan/Trabzon.

Pretty much like this.It models the high EEF as Sardinian like and the rest as Cretan,Trabzon,Cypriot,Cappadocian Greek etc.

Genoplot in general models better compared to other calucators IMO.

davit
12-22-2020, 11:24 AM
Yes, there are influences of Laz people to Eastern-Pontic Greeks and its obvious also from yDNA.Some lineages can be seen among Pontic Greeks,Laz,Hemsheni Armenians and to some Georgians.

https://easternblackseadna.blogspot.com/2017/12/y-dna-differences-and-similarities.html


Laz people arrived in Eastern Pontus during the middle ages,a period where Arabs were conquering Anatolia and Caucasus.They found a hideway at Eastern Pontus and more specific in modern provinces of Artvin and Rize to escape from Arabs.Before they come to Pontus they would have been genetically similar to Georgians but its obvious from the samples we have that some of them mixed with Eastern Pontic people,thus they become more East Med admixed.Armenian Hemsheni are a similar case.They are Armenians who left their lands and they settled to Eastern Pontus to escape from Arabs as well..and they mixed hardly with Eastern Pontic people.Later during the Empire of Trebizond many Laz people and other Georgians took high ranking positions in the empire.They were an imporant minority.Many of them become Pontic Greeks to escape from Ottomans and Islam later..but the majority converted to Islam.Armenian Hemsheni have converted to Islam as well.

The point is all of them sharing the same native population.They are descendent from Colchians who were Kartvelian speakers.The big diffrence is that Pontic Greeks have the position of being in Anatolia,thus they are mixed with Anatolian people and that is making them more BA Anatolian admixed.Laz people are between Georgians and Pontic Greeks with some of them being more caucasian while others sharing the Eastern Pontic profile.Armenian Hemsheni are also very Eastern Pontic by genetics.Georgians on the other hand are a pure south caucasian group. Azkhabians also sharing this Colchian related ancestry and they are very close to Georgians but some of them have mixed with Northwest Caucasian people.The mystery with Eastern Pontic Genetics is the 'L' lineages that we can find in pretty much all the easternblacksea groups.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchian_culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koban_culture


Yea that L1b is interesting. Is it found outside of the Black Sea region?

Johnny ola
12-22-2020, 12:08 PM
Yea that L1b is interesting. Is it found outside of the Black Sea region?

Sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20


There are also ancient samples being 'L'.I am not sure where exactly it originates but it is very likely to arrived in Eastern Pontus either with a neolithic migration or maybe with some Iranic subgroup during the period of Kingdom of Pontus..or maybe before with Achaemenid Empire?It looks a very mysterious lineage,i would like to know more.. but it seems to existed in ancient populations and civilizations.It might also be a native 'Colchian' lineage of Eastern Pontus.Its obvious that Laz and Hemsheni Armenians received such lineages when they mixed with Eastern-Pontic people with a founder effect progress.Checking so far Georgians and Azkhabians yDNA it seems to lack it.

dosas
12-22-2020, 12:17 PM
Sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20


There are also ancient samples being 'L'.I am not sure where exactly it originates but it is very likely to arrived in Eastern Pontus either with a neolithic migration or maybe with some Iranic subgroup during the period of Kingdom of Pontus..or maybe before with Achaemenid Empire?It looks a very mysterious lineage,i would like to know more.. but it seems to existed in ancient populations and civilizations.It might also be a native 'Colchian' lineage of Eastern Pontus.Its obvious that Laz and Hemsheni Armenians received such lineages when they mixed with Eastern-Pontic people with a founder effect progress.Checking so far Georgians and Azkhabians yDNA it seems to lack it.


Johny, I am reading on your wiki link that 41.7% of the Laz sample (Balanovsky, O. 2017) were L1b-M317. Is this the Pontic Greek branch, also?

Johnny ola
12-22-2020, 12:32 PM
Johny, I am reading on your wiki link that 41.7% of the Laz sample (Balanovsky, O. 2017) were L1b-M317. Is this the Pontic Greek branch, also?

L1b-M317.

https://easternblackseadna.blogspot.com/2017/12/hemshin-y-dna-haplogroups.html
https://easternblackseadna.blogspot.com/2017/12/laz-y-dna-haplogroups.html
https://easternblackseadna.blogspot.com/2017/11/west-central-and-east-trabzon-y-dna.html
https://easternblackseadna.blogspot.com/2017/11/trabzon-y-dna-ratios.html


L1b (Pontic Cluster, PH8+): It is the sub-branch of L1b that is found intensely in the eastern Black Sea region, it is found intensely beginning from the east of Trabzon. I think it is higher than normal due to the fact that most of the samples are from the east of Trabzon, its ration should be around 18-20% if we do an arithmetic distribution.

davit
12-22-2020, 12:40 PM
Sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20


There are also ancient samples being 'L'.I am not sure where exactly it originates but it is very likely to arrived in Eastern Pontus either with a neolithic migration or maybe with some Iranic subgroup during the period of Kingdom of Pontus..or maybe before with Achaemenid Empire?It looks a very mysterious lineage,i would like to know more.. but it seems to existed in ancient populations and civilizations.It might also be a native 'Colchian' lineage of Eastern Pontus.Its obvious that Laz and Hemsheni Armenians received such lineages when they mixed with Eastern-Pontic people with a founder effect progress.Checking so far Georgians and Azkhabians yDNA it seems to lack it.

I am guessing it is Iranian ultimately given L1a seems to radiate out from the Indus Valley and L1c seems to radiate out from the Hindu Kush. Not sure if Iran is home to any of these or has its own unique subclades.

Andrewid
12-22-2020, 02:49 PM
The following is based on ethnographic info I have collected over some time. No concrete final conclusion has been reached from my part (yet), but feel free to comment.

In 1968, a group of "Official Pontic Greek Associations" (mainly from Thessaloniki) issued a raging announcement, directed at the government of the military Junta of the time, demanding the outright ban and destruction (!) of a popular LP record of the same year, containing popular folk and neo-folk songs of Pontic Greek origin, named ""Ζεί Ζεί και μας είπανε Λαζοί" or "(We) live, (we) live, and they call us Lazes" (translation mine).

Among others, there was a very popular song with the lyrics "Λαζοί είμες, Λαζοί είμες, Λαζιών σκυλ παιδία σα χέρια μουν κρατούμε μαχαίρια και σπαθία" or "(We are) the Lazes, (we are) the Lazes, of Lazic (wolves/dogs?) children (we're born) with knives and swords in our hands."

The Junta government agreed and the LP record was banned/destroyed (!) promptly, but not w/o becoming a huge success in the Pontic diaspora where such restrictions could not be applied (I am still actively searching for a hard copy, btw).

Among Pontic Greeks, at least from my own experience as well as from other literal sources, the term "Laz" keeps popping up constantly, even up to the mid 1990s, as a nickname or a self-designating term. For example, it was popularized to refer to the Pontic diaspora of Germany as the "Λαζογερμανοί" or the "Lazes from Germany/Lazo-germans".

When it comes to last names, it's very common to find Pontic Greeks with names such as Lazopoulos (the child of the Laz), Lazakis (little Laz), Lazos (Laz) or Lazaridis (... of the Laz, although someone would argue that this last one derives from the name Lazarus). There are also several villages/neighborhoods in Greece called Lazica, Lazochori, etc.

The Empire of Trebizond is referred by the Byzantine Emperors and writers of the time as the Principality of the Lazes, and the Komnenian Emperors as the Princes of the Lazes. The Patriarchate designated the name of the religious authority of Trebizond as the Metropolis of Lazica. Some would argue that this was made as an attempt to delegitimize the contention of the Komnenians to the Constantinopolitan throne but I am not entirely convinced this was the case. The Patriarchate had no visible reason to take such an obvious open stance of support towards the Palaiologos and the Laskarides, at least in my opinion.

Up until their arrival to Greece with the Treaty of Lausanne, the Pontic Greeks only use two terms to describe themselves, Romans/Romaioi (their Imperial/Ottoman civic identity tied to their religion?) and Lazes/Λαζοί (their ethnic identity?).

Why am I sharing all this? I am not trying to say that all Pontic Greeks are Hellenised Laz, and that's because I believe that the Pontic Greek is an umbrella term that refers to all Greco-Roman Byzantine subjects west of Marmara, encompassing a variety of ethnic groups, such as Armenians, Turks, Anatolians, Crimean Urums, Caucasian Mamelouks, and so on. But I do believe that there was a big group of Lazic origins that was included under that umbrella term, in order for the term Laz-Λαζός to be popularized to such extent. After some casual talks I had with Lazes from Rize, interested in such historical and ethnographic issues, they shared with me that it always posed a mystery to them as to what happened to the Lazes of Trabzon, where did they disappear to? Could it be that we have an answer to this question?

Food for thought.



Fascinating stuff. The fuziness of ethnic identity and how it is malleable as well as contextual. Could some of the Pontian refugees have actually been Laz Christians caught up in the exchange treaty provisions?

When I was approached in the back streets of Tibilisi by a Pontian, I was not asked if I was an 'Ellina' but if I was Romaios (not even Romyos). I think there is that classic quote referring to Lemnos, where locals looked on excitedly at the Greek army's arrival, exclaiming now we know what 'Ellines' look like. The passage from Romyi to Ellines took place all over the Greek world and was largely propelled by citizenship.

On the Laz, some were transferred to Cyprus as colonists after 1974. I know from some of my Cyprus enclaved relatives that some Laz would say to them "we used to be Romyi like you". Very complicated and contextual.

I hope you recover this priceless record, Dosas. I will ask some Pontic contacts I have in the diaspora if they know anything about it. Makes me want to visit the paliatzidika in Monastiraki on a record hunt. The Trehantiri record shop in London always kept back one copy of every item it received. It has now sadly closed down.

dosas
12-24-2020, 02:43 PM
I'd like to take this opportunity to provide you with some info I've recently stumbled upon regarding the validity of the Greek_Trabzon samples on G25.

I originally thought that they were leaks from the Stamatoyanopoulos paper, just how user 23abc recently provided us with the recent G25 Stamatoyanopoulos samples, but I came across the info that they are from the personal collection of a Turkish neo-nazi individual/blogger (by his own admission), whom I spoke to and consider in dire need of psychiatric help. As a result, I hold the suspicion that these samples, if they are indeed Pontic Greeks from Trabzon or even if they exist at all, are tampered with in order to provide extreme similarities with the Turkish_Trabzon cluster, fulfilling this troubled individual's personal narrative.

I don't presume to tell Eurogenes what to do with them, but I want to bring forward this info. I have screenshots of the conversation where this is admitted by a person close to this blogger, and I can forward them to an email address of anyone who is interested and wants to read the exchange. All names are removed in order to protect the privacy of the involved parties.

Johnny ola
12-24-2020, 03:19 PM
I'd like to take this opportunity to provide you with some info I've recently stumbled upon regarding the validity of the Greek_Trabzon samples on G25.

I originally thought that they were leaks from the Stamatoyanopoulos paper, just how user 23abc recently provided us with the recent G25 Stamatoyanopoulos samples, but I came across the info that they are from the personal collection of a Turkish neo-nazi individual/blogger (by his own admission), whom I spoke to and consider in dire need of psychiatric help. As a result, I hold the suspicion that these samples, if they are indeed Pontic Greeks from Trabzon or even if they exist at all, are tampered with in order to provide extreme similarities with the Turkish_Trabzon cluster, fulfilling this troubled individual's personal narrative.

I don't presume to tell Eurogenes what to do with them, but I want to bring forward this info. I have screenshots of the conversation where this is admitted by a person close to this blogger, and I can forward them to an email address of anyone who is interested and wants to read the exchange. All names are removed in order to protect the privacy of the involved parties.

The samples of Greek_Trabzon have collected by a Turkish Trabzon individual(who indeed happening to be Neonazi) that is true. There are some suspicious samples especially 2 of them who score East Asian/Siberian. Diffrences between Greek and Turkish Trabzon samples are that the former are obviously more CHG while the Turkish samples are more Anatolian N shifted(something that we don't see with the Greek samples). Also most of the Greek Trabzon samples require something from the Levant to be modeled.

Johnny ola
12-24-2020, 04:10 PM
The samples of Greek_Trabzon have collected by a Turkish Trabzon individual(who indeed happening to be Neonazi) that is true. There are some suspicious samples especially 2 of them who score East Asian/Siberian. Diffrences between Greek and Turkish Trabzon samples are that the former are obviously more CHG while the Turkish samples are more Anatolian N shifted(something that we don't see with the Greek samples). Also most of the Greek Trabzon samples require something from the Levant to be modeled.

Also to mention that this specific person avoids the relation of Pontic Greeks with Laz people and when i told him in private that half of the 'Trabzon' DNA (autosomal) is similar to Georgians he called me uninformed and that i go with an agenda.I have no agenda i am just telling the truth when it comes to genetics.

This is btw how Genoplot models perfectly the 'Greek_Trabzon' sample.It is half 'Georgian' and half a population similar to 'Cappadocian Greeks/Cypriots'(East Med) etc.


41995

Markos
12-24-2020, 06:06 PM
I've always been interested in my mother's "Levantine-shift" (probably the wrong term to use), given her ancestry. I'm not sure what to make of it. Her Red_Sea component is above average for her ancestry, and I receive 0.3% Sudanese on 23andMe, inherited from her. I don't know if that's related or if it's all bull crap.

https://imgur.com/pTCCUia.png
I once used the "Evil Twin" tool on GedMatch, which creates a phased kit based on DNA from my mother I did not receive. (So they say).


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 24.28
2 North_Atlantic 17.25
3 Baltic 16.89
4 West_Med 15.45
5 West_Asian 10.37
6 Red_Sea 4.38
7 East_Asian 3.89
8 Northeast_African 3.58
9 Sub-Saharan 1.4
10 South_Asian 0.98
11 Siberian 0.77
12 Amerindian 0.76

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 7.7
2 Bulgarian 10.42
3 Central_Greek 11.53
4 East_Sicilian 11.6
5 Ashkenazi 12
6 Italian_Abruzzo 12.1
7 Romanian 12.21
8 West_Sicilian 12.58
9 Tuscan 14.25
10 South_Italian 14.98
11 Serbian 15.67
12 North_Italian 17.92
13 Algerian_Jewish 18.6
14 Italian_Jewish 18.88
15 Sephardic_Jewish 18.9
16 Moldavian 20.79
17 Tunisian_Jewish 21.39
18 Libyan_Jewish 21.48
19 Hungarian 23.25
20 Croatian 23.77

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.5% Bulgarian + 24.5% Egyptian @ 4.38
2 50.9% Moldavian + 49.1% Libyan_Jewish @ 4.58
3 72% Romanian + 28% Egyptian @ 4.62
4 59.3% Libyan_Jewish + 40.7% Ukrainian @ 4.66
5 50.8% Moldavian + 49.2% Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.74
6 59.5% Tunisian_Jewish + 40.5% Ukrainian @ 4.75
7 52.7% Libyan_Jewish + 47.3% Croatian @ 4.94
8 58.4% Libyan_Jewish + 41.6% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 4.94
9 59.1% Libyan_Jewish + 40.9% South_Polish @ 4.99
10 58.5% Tunisian_Jewish + 41.5% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5
11 61.3% Libyan_Jewish + 38.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.02
12 52.8% Tunisian_Jewish + 47.2% Croatian @ 5.05
13 70.8% Romanian + 29.2% Jordanian @ 5.08
14 64.5% Serbian + 35.5% Jordanian @ 5.12
15 61.5% Tunisian_Jewish + 38.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.15
16 64.9% Algerian_Jewish + 35.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.16
17 59.3% Tunisian_Jewish + 40.7% South_Polish @ 5.18
18 79.9% East_Sicilian + 20.1% La_Brana-1 @ 5.21
19 74.9% Bulgarian + 25.1% Jordanian @ 5.23
20 61.2% Libyan_Jewish + 38.8% Southwest_Russian @ 5.25

bovefex
12-25-2020, 03:52 PM
This might not be very relevant, but how close are the Greek_Trabzon and Greek_Cappadocian samples on the G25 list? I am asking because I wanted to model modern Anatolian Turks, and wanted to avoid overfitting.

I have also noticed that when modeling Anatolian Turks, the inclusion of a Steppe sample, a CHG sample, an Iran N sample and a Natufian sample in addition to Greek_Cappadocia and TUR_Ottoman:MA2195 seems to improve the fit by a decent amount, with the extra Steppe component hanging at around 5% and the other three being generally lower. I was wondering whether pre-Turkic Anatolia might have been slightly more Steppe admixed than the Anatolian Greeks of today. I might have made a mistake, but any thoughts?

lacreme
01-01-2021, 08:04 PM
Greetings!
Does anyone here have a good grasp of/knows how to find sources for Byzantine empire's history, especially from the appearance of the Goths until the first couple of Crusades ?
My friend,whom I have mentioned a lot , is looking for a way to pass the time and speculate over until he gets his WGS from Dante labs and subsequently use it to hopefully find his terminal Y-Dna subclade. He is interested on that admittedly long period of time due to his predicted clade which is,as a reminder, Ι-L22.


His subclade will most probably be downstream from the "Balkanic" branch as most I-L22 results in Balkans are. After all, while his paternal family/line was originally located in modern day Gaziemir, Turkey they were mostly farmers and many immigrated there from various parts of Greece in the previous centuries attracted to the fertile lands of the area.
There is also a family legend that their paternal surname was completely different from their current one and that it originally had an -"idis" suffix, possibly an origin further inland in Anatolia ? If so, what kind of migrations/events can be connected with such a clade? If this really happened the change took place sometime during or after the 19th century but definitely not close to or after 1922 as none of the living descendants recalled another family name in the recent past.

A third speculative scenario exists, which is the main reason my friend's looking for the requested info... It's quite far-fetched due to length of the implied time scale though... It goes like this, his family name is very rare and almost everyone with the same one in Greece can trace it's origin back to the same family from Gaziemir, in Izmir. There is also a family with the same surname somewhere in Phocis, Central Greece. If there's a link with them too is currently unknown...
The only other mention of his family name that he could find is in a document originally written in Latin dated around the 1260s. The document names, among others, a series of farmer? families that lived back then in modern day Balat, close to Miletus. Could it be that some of their descendants relocated at a point in time from there, either directly or after moving first to an island or another area of Asia Minor, to the region of Izmir (130km away) ? Obviously due to the distance in time and the number of disasters and population movements that followed during the centuries no connection can be safely drawn...
But in the purely speculative scenario that such movement took place, what kind of people of possibly Germanic-like (or even Slavic) descent could have found themselves in the area of Miletus prior to 1260 and which historical events could be connected with them ?

Markos
01-01-2021, 09:45 PM
I've always been interested in my mother's "Levantine-shift" (probably the wrong term to use), given her ancestry. I'm not sure what to make of it. Her Red_Sea component is above average for her ancestry, and I receive 0.3% Sudanese on 23andMe, inherited from her. I don't know if that's related or if it's all bull crap.

https://imgur.com/pTCCUia.png
I once used the "Evil Twin" tool on GedMatch, which creates a phased kit based on DNA from my mother I did not receive. (So they say).


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 24.28
2 North_Atlantic 17.25
3 Baltic 16.89
4 West_Med 15.45
5 West_Asian 10.37
6 Red_Sea 4.38
7 East_Asian 3.89
8 Northeast_African 3.58
9 Sub-Saharan 1.4
10 South_Asian 0.98
11 Siberian 0.77
12 Amerindian 0.76

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 7.7
2 Bulgarian 10.42
3 Central_Greek 11.53
4 East_Sicilian 11.6
5 Ashkenazi 12
6 Italian_Abruzzo 12.1
7 Romanian 12.21
8 West_Sicilian 12.58
9 Tuscan 14.25
10 South_Italian 14.98
11 Serbian 15.67
12 North_Italian 17.92
13 Algerian_Jewish 18.6
14 Italian_Jewish 18.88
15 Sephardic_Jewish 18.9
16 Moldavian 20.79
17 Tunisian_Jewish 21.39
18 Libyan_Jewish 21.48
19 Hungarian 23.25
20 Croatian 23.77

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.5% Bulgarian + 24.5% Egyptian @ 4.38
2 50.9% Moldavian + 49.1% Libyan_Jewish @ 4.58
3 72% Romanian + 28% Egyptian @ 4.62
4 59.3% Libyan_Jewish + 40.7% Ukrainian @ 4.66
5 50.8% Moldavian + 49.2% Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.74
6 59.5% Tunisian_Jewish + 40.5% Ukrainian @ 4.75
7 52.7% Libyan_Jewish + 47.3% Croatian @ 4.94
8 58.4% Libyan_Jewish + 41.6% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 4.94
9 59.1% Libyan_Jewish + 40.9% South_Polish @ 4.99
10 58.5% Tunisian_Jewish + 41.5% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5
11 61.3% Libyan_Jewish + 38.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.02
12 52.8% Tunisian_Jewish + 47.2% Croatian @ 5.05
13 70.8% Romanian + 29.2% Jordanian @ 5.08
14 64.5% Serbian + 35.5% Jordanian @ 5.12
15 61.5% Tunisian_Jewish + 38.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.15
16 64.9% Algerian_Jewish + 35.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.16
17 59.3% Tunisian_Jewish + 40.7% South_Polish @ 5.18
18 79.9% East_Sicilian + 20.1% La_Brana-1 @ 5.21
19 74.9% Bulgarian + 25.1% Jordanian @ 5.23
20 61.2% Libyan_Jewish + 38.8% Southwest_Russian @ 5.25


Again, this might be bollocks but..

My mother receives 0.7% Cypriot, 0.5% North African and 0.3% Sudanese on 23andMe, all which stay at 90% confidence. (Though to be exact, at 90% confidence Cypriot is reduced to 0.4% while the latter two at 0.2% and all categorized under 'trace ancestry').

She has a close DNA relative who shares 107cM with her who is presumably related to her mother's side of the family (Arkadia, Peloponnese) who not only receives 0.2% Egyptian himself, but who's YDNA is E-L29.

Johnny ola
01-01-2021, 10:34 PM
Recently found a decent map about Greeks, Macedonians,Illyrian, Dacians, Phrygians etc. Its from 3rd millennium BC.


42225

Hawk
01-01-2021, 10:45 PM
Recently found a decent map about Greeks, Macedonians,Illyrian, Dacians, Phrygians etc. Its from 3rd millennium BC.


42225

Some other day i was reading Marija Gimbutas and she was thinking if Pelasgians were the same as Philistines/Peleset and was thinking that they rather came from Vatin related cultures from North Serbia during the Late Bronze Age turmoil and were not native to Greece, it was just that ancient Greek writers were confused. Who knows.

Aspar
01-01-2021, 11:30 PM
Recently found a decent map about Greeks, Macedonians,Illyrian, Dacians, Phrygians etc. Its from 3rd millennium BC.


42225

It's a map based on the view (http://www.kroraina.com/vg/vg.html) of the Bulgarian linguist Vladimir Georgiev regarding the etymological origin of the toponyms in the Balkans. However I doubt it can represent the 3rd millennium BC situation because most of the toponyms in question which Georgiev examined are mainly attested not earlier than the first millennium BC. In fact, probably most of these tribes originated from the turbulences and havoc post LBA collapse and it can't be said with certainty if these toponyms and names of tribes existed before the LBA collapse in the same area.

We know that the Paeonians were mostly located east of the river Vardar and according to this map were of Daco-Thracian origin and therefore the placement of the name Paeonia is misplaced on the map.
The Greekoid languages(proto-Greek, proto-Macedonian and proto-Phrygian) were located in north-western Greece, southern Albania and western North Macedonia where there was also significant Illyrian influence. Georgiev says:
In the present writer's opinion, Greek, Macedonian and Phrygian formed in the fourth millennium b.c. a common language.I'm not sure about this because their closeness or the common language must date later than the fourth millennium BC when Indo-European people were still unified and most Indo-European derived languages haven't split off yet. Most probably their closeness dates to the third millennium BC or the second at the most.

Johnny ola
01-01-2021, 11:33 PM
Some other day i was reading Marija Gimbutas and she was thinking if Pelasgians were the same as Philistines/Peleset and was thinking that they rather came from Vatin related cultures from North Serbia during the Late Bronze Age turmoil and were not native to Greece, it was just that ancient Greek writers were confused. Who knows.

I think the terms pelasgian-leleges etc have to do with non-Greek people. Ancients just wanted to mean that there were people different from them at sometime. But anyway. For me, it would have been a great achievement if we had any idea what languages the pre-IE Balkanic people were speaking,not just in Greece but also to Albania, Bulgaria etc. They were rich in EEF, I am thinkful if they had any relation with afro-asiatic dialects or to something similar.

XXD
01-01-2021, 11:35 PM
Greetings!
Does anyone here have a good grasp of/knows how to find sources for Byzantine empire's history, especially from the appearance of the Goths until the first couple of Crusades ?
My friend,whom I have mentioned a lot , is looking for a way to pass the time and speculate over until he gets his WGS from Dante labs and subsequently use it to hopefully find his terminal Y-Dna subclade. He is interested on that admittedly long period of time due to his predicted clade which is,as a reminder, Ι-L22.


His subclade will most probably be downstream from the "Balkanic" branch as most I-L22 results in Balkans are. After all, while his paternal family/line was originally located in modern day Gaziemir, Turkey they were mostly farmers and many immigrated there from various parts of Greece in the previous centuries attracted to the fertile lands of the area.
There is also a family legend that their paternal surname was completely different from their current one and that it originally had an -"idis" suffix, possibly an origin further inland in Anatolia ? If so, what kind of migrations/events can be connected with such a clade? If this really happened the change took place sometime during or after the 19th century but definitely not close to or after 1922 as none of the living descendants recalled another family name in the recent past.

A third speculative scenario exists, which is the main reason my friend's looking for the requested info... It's quite far-fetched due to length of the implied time scale though... It goes like this, his family name is very rare and almost everyone with the same one in Greece can trace it's origin back to the same family from Gaziemir, in Izmir. There is also a family with the same surname somewhere in Phocis, Central Greece. If there's a link with them too is currently unknown...
The only other mention of his family name that he could find is in a document originally written in Latin dated around the 1260s. The document names, among others, a series of farmer? families that lived back then in modern day Balat, close to Miletus. Could it be that some of their descendants relocated at a point in time from there, either directly or after moving first to an island or another area of Asia Minor, to the region of Izmir (130km away) ? Obviously due to the distance in time and the number of disasters and population movements that followed during the centuries no connection can be safely drawn...
But in the purely speculative scenario that such movement took place, what kind of people of possibly Germanic-like (or even Slavic) descent could have found themselves in the area of Miletus prior to 1260 and which historical events could be connected with them ?

If it is from Asia Minor, then Varangians would be the most reasonable guess. We know that the medieval Slavic hordes had assimilated Goths, so it could also be from there, especially if his distant origin is from the mainland.

Johnny ola
01-01-2021, 11:38 PM
It's a map based on the view (http://www.kroraina.com/vg/vg.html) of the Bulgarian linguist Vladimir Georgiev regarding the etymological origin of the toponyms in the Balkans. However I doubt it can represent the 3rd millennium BC situation because most of the toponyms in question which Georgiev examined are mainly attested not earlier than the first millennium BC. In fact, probably most of these tribes originated from the turbulences and havoc post LBA collapse and it can't be said with certainty if these toponyms and names of tribes existed before the LBA collapse in the same area.

We know that the Paeonians were mostly located east of the river Vardar and according to this map were of Daco-Thracian origin and therefore the placement of the name Paeonia is misplaced on the map.
The Greekoid languages(proto-Greek, proto-Macedonian and proto-Phrygian) were located in north-western Greece, southern Albania and western North Macedonia where there was also significant Illyrian influence. Georgiev says: I'm not sure about this because their closeness or the common language must date later than the fourth millennium BC when Indo-European people were still unified and most Indo-European derived languages haven't split off yet. Most probably their closeness dates to the third millennium BC or the second at the most.


Indeed. You are prolly right its an early chronology for it. But in general I think he has a decent view on how these tribes formed. Do you believe they would have been R1a people or R1b?

Aspar
01-02-2021, 12:23 AM
Indeed. You are prolly right its an early chronology for it. But in general I think he has a decent view on how these tribes formed. Do you believe they would have been R1a people or R1b?

Mostly R1b rather than R1a and if there was R1a, I believe it was R-Z93.

Sorcelow
01-07-2021, 07:48 PM
My father's results are in:

https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/135761295_136359828295949_6729878891866325047_n.pn g?_nc_cat=101&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=PTjhB0RzWeUAX-NX6Hu&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=c38475862276c4e5630c6e84e5487afd&oe=601EAE12

https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/135856123_120214533207041_272143971155979254_n.png ?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=ZX1tSJvhQoUAX9XGkOQ&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=3795cc9fbc9ce6da4d5545b3e1d3d1f5&oe=601C7B55[/img]

unfortunately, I cant get his G25 coordinates for another 4-6 weeks since David is on vacation, but the above PCA, which is based on gedmatch, gives a nice plot for my entire family. I guess my sister and I inherited the bulk of our autosomal profiles from our father. We are intermediate between the other Laconian samples I have and the Thessalian average.

Markos
01-07-2021, 09:39 PM
My father's results are in:

https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/135761295_136359828295949_6729878891866325047_n.pn g?_nc_cat=101&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=PTjhB0RzWeUAX-NX6Hu&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=c38475862276c4e5630c6e84e5487afd&oe=601EAE12

https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/135856123_120214533207041_272143971155979254_n.png ?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=ZX1tSJvhQoUAX9XGkOQ&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=3795cc9fbc9ce6da4d5545b3e1d3d1f5&oe=601C7B55[/img]

unfortunately, I cant get his G25 coordinates for another 4-6 weeks since David is on vacation, but the above PCA, which is based on gedmatch, gives a nice plot for my entire family. I guess my sister and I inherited the bulk of our autosomal profiles from our father. We are intermediate between the other Laconian samples I have and the Thessalian average.

Congratulations!!!

Very interesting to see where the four of you plot in relation to each other. I wouldn't have expected it to look so 'random', ie. no obvious linear cline between your mother and father, and you and your sister in between.

TonyC
01-08-2021, 12:33 AM
My father's results are in:

https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/135761295_136359828295949_6729878891866325047_n.pn g?_nc_cat=101&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=PTjhB0RzWeUAX-NX6Hu&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=c38475862276c4e5630c6e84e5487afd&oe=601EAE12

https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/135856123_120214533207041_272143971155979254_n.png ?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=ZX1tSJvhQoUAX9XGkOQ&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=3795cc9fbc9ce6da4d5545b3e1d3d1f5&oe=601C7B55[/img]

unfortunately, I cant get his G25 coordinates for another 4-6 weeks since David is on vacation, but the above PCA, which is based on gedmatch, gives a nice plot for my entire family. I guess my sister and I inherited the bulk of our autosomal profiles from our father. We are intermediate between the other Laconian samples I have and the Thessalian average.

So do you think that your mom's results have less West Asian? I'm wondering if your dad is closer to the East Taygetos average and your mom has a higher Slavic admixture and thus closer to Thessaly/Central Macedonia.

Sorcelow
01-08-2021, 12:39 AM
So do you think that your mom's results have less West Asian? I'm wondering if your dad is closer to the East Taygetos average and your mom has a higher Slavic admixture and thus closer to Thessaly/Central Macedonia.

Well its the other way around. My mom is closer to the other Laconian samples and my dad shifts towards northern Greece. Me and my sister are somewhere in the middle.

I added you to the plot:

https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/135856937_228587508761020_6912447091379394486_n.pn g?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=3P3W_-E7WtoAX8DaQyd&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=f74338686f7e7decf05c984b96bffa28&oe=601DE281

dosas
01-08-2021, 02:30 PM
https://youtu.be/ltikjXUiAC4

lacreme
01-10-2021, 11:04 PM
Just for fun I've decided to use the new, with more population averages, Eurogenes K15 2D PCA and place my friend and his tested relatives.

Black dot -> my friend
Red dot -> his mother
Blue dot -> the non biological maternal grandfather

https://i.imgur.com/yDWJXPp.png



As a bonus but even less useful, the same plot but with the following additions

Green dot -> the extracted kit of his father (P1 type gedmatch kit)
Pink dot -> the extracted kit of his mother (M1 type gedmatch kit)
Grey dot -> my friend's "evil twin" (M2 type gedmatch kit)

Needless to say the extracted kits are all over the place... the alternate kit for his mother is quite a bit off but his father's, even if his exact real genetic profile is currently unknown, should be even worse. He is half Peloponnesian and half Smyrniot thus a placement bellow Ashkenazi is virtually impossible. Shouldn't he be placed somewhere in the area between Thessaly, Peloponnese, Abruzzo and Campania depending on the Blakanic shift of his Peloponnesian side ?

https://i.imgur.com/r1rsuwn.png

lacreme
01-17-2021, 10:49 AM
Does anyone know how to read (and translate) katharevousa to modern Greek ? I'm having trouble fully understanding the following text.

42629
42630
42631

CyrylBojarski
01-18-2021, 10:35 AM
Is this model accurate? Is it possible for Macedonian Greeks to be 40% Slavic? Something is wrong here

https://i.imgur.com/xiTVLSv.png

Nino90
01-18-2021, 10:53 AM
Yes. I am not an expert in Macedonian genetics. But from what I remember they got mostly Slavic DNA (They also speak a Slavic language, have Slavic culture and customs).

Also I have seen North Greeks who score up to 30% Slavic so It would make sense Macedonians having 40% Slavonic.

CyrylBojarski
01-18-2021, 10:59 AM
Yes. I am not an expert in Macedonian genetics. But from what I remember they got mostly Slavic DNA (They also speak a Slavic language, have Slavic culture and customs).

Also I have seen North Greeks who score up to 30% Slavic so It would make sense Macedonians having 40% Slavonic.

To my knowledge Bulgarians and Macedonians are about 40% Slavic, but for Macedonian Greeks it is too much I think

This model shows only Greeks without other Balkan ethnicities

Nino90
01-18-2021, 11:04 AM
To my knowledge Bulgarians and Macedonians are about 40% Slavic, but for Macedonian Greeks it is too much I think

This model shows only Greeks without other Balkan ethnicities

Alright My bad. Yes It sound a bit high actually.

Have you try model them on individual basis?

Bane
01-18-2021, 11:09 AM
To my knowledge Bulgarians and Macedonians are about 40% Slavic, but for Macedonian Greeks it is too much I think


Slavic component of Greek Macedonians should not differ too much from Bulgarians and Macedonians. It is in line with what we know from history of the region.

CyrylBojarski
01-18-2021, 11:11 AM
Alright My bad. Yes It sound a bit high actually.

Have you try model them on individual basis?

No, I didn't. This model is with new added samples - Helladic_MBA, Cycladic_EBA, previously if I am not wrong on models Greeks were less Slavic admixed, than on this, Macedonian Greeks were about 25% or so

iluvatar
01-18-2021, 11:49 AM
Is this model accurate? Is it possible for Macedonian Greeks to be 40% Slavic? Something is wrong here

You are wasting your time with these models. The samples we have are too few and too old.

Wait for more and especially more recent samples because there is obviously something missing. There is no way for example the Laconia sample’s only steppe came in the medieval. Also notice how the Slavic drops for the Thessaly sample much more compared to the others.

These quirks are probably the result of low sample size.

Johnny ola
01-18-2021, 12:07 PM
To my knowledge Bulgarians and Macedonians are about 40% Slavic, but for Macedonian Greeks it is too much I think

This model shows only Greeks without other Balkan ethnicities

Greek Macedonians are more Southern shifted than Bulgarians and North Macedonians. They are less Slavic and more West Asian admixed.

CyrylBojarski
01-18-2021, 12:29 PM
Greek Macedonians are more Southern shifted than Bulgarians and North Macedonians. They are less Slavic and more West Asian admixed.

This is why I posted it. Slavic admixture is unrealistically high and is on Bulgarian-Macedonian level with new added ancient samples

Johnny ola
01-18-2021, 01:45 PM
This is why I posted it. Slavic admixture is unrealistically high and on Bulgarian-Macedonian level with new added ancient samples

One North Macedonian sample is quite southern if i am not mistaken.Thought we need more samples from both Bulgarians and N.Macedonians.

Andrewid
01-18-2021, 02:10 PM
Does anyone know how to read (and translate) katharevousa to modern Greek ? I'm having trouble fully understanding the following text.

42629
42630
42631

Others may correct me, but this looks like Byzantine Greek and quite close to New Testament Greek. I always found the katharevousa documents I encountered in archives hard work, but this seems even more archaic.

lacreme
01-18-2021, 03:18 PM
Others may correct me, but this looks like Byzantine Greek and quite close to New Testament Greek. I always found the katharevousa documents I encountered in archives hard work, but this seems even more archaic.

Can you make any sense about what was this document about ? As I understand, I think, It's about the mentioned monastery located in Palatia (close to Miletus ) which took in it's possession (forcefully? in agreement? ) the fields surrounding it and compensated financially the named former landowners/farmers. The purpose of this move possibly was for the monks to live and work away from public life ?
I'm even close to the context ? What do you think ?

Andrewid
01-18-2021, 05:03 PM
Can you make any sense about what was this document about ? As I understand, I think, It's about the mentioned monastery located in Palatia (close to Miletus ) which took in it's possession (forcefully? in agreement? ) the fields surrounding it and compensated financially the named former landowners/farmers. The purpose of this move possibly was for the monks to live and work away from public life ?
I'm even close to the context ? What do you think ?

Looks like a contract between the monastery and the local village. So many villagers are listed and it does speak of a pecuniary transfer. Towards end it says so monks can enjoy land uninterupted. This can mean that there was a land dispute before, or it may simply be the way the legal document is drafted in terms of the legal terms necessary for an immovable property transfer. As a lawyer, it reminds me of English legalese or gobbledygook so often used! But Greek is only my second language, so native speakers may give greater clarity.

lacreme
01-18-2021, 06:22 PM
Looks like a contract between the monastery and the local village. So many villagers are listed and it does speak of a pecuniary transfer. Towards end it says so monks can enjoy land uninterupted. This can mean that there was a land dispute before, or it may simply be the way the legal document is drafted in terms of the legal terms necessary for an immovable property transfer. As a lawyer, it reminds me of English legalese or gobbledygook so often used! But Greek is only my second language, so native speakers may give greater clarity.

Thank you ! I think it's clear enough ;)

Personally I don't need further clarification, the only reason I got interested in it's meaning in the first place is the fact that one of the villagers mentioned in it happens to share the same family name with my friend who I usually post about. It's quite rare in the country as most if not all of the people sharing it are part of the same extended family with origins in Izmir. I know though that since the 13th century, when the document was originally written, many centuries of turmoils, depopulations and resettlements followed, as well as posssible surname changes... Still, the region of Izmir is not THAT far away from Miletus and I like to think about the tenuous at best possibility that in centuries that followed some of this villager's descendants managed to survive and move either indirectly through the islands or directly further north.

Sorcelow
01-22-2021, 02:20 PM
For those of you who are interested in the medieval Ottoman defters of Greece, I have recently been in contact with George Liakopoulos of Max-Planck institute, who recently published "The Early Ottoman Peloponnese". His work focused on the 1462 Ottoman defter of the Peloponnese, however, there are parts of the region that are missing. When asked about why such regions are missing, his response is: "The TT10-1/14662 cadastre has survived in a fragmentary state and thus does not cover the entire peninsula. One of the missing districts was the one of Mystras in Laconia, as inferred from Priniḳos (Modern Asteri) village, which is surveyed together with settlements of Kalavryta that belonged to the timariot ʿAlī son of Cāyim. Other parts of the Morea, like Argos, Modon, Coron and Monemvasia were still under Venetian rule in the early 1460s, hence not included in the Ottoman register."

If you have roots from the Peloponnese, I encourage you to purchase his book. I was able to find my own surname, which is a rather uncommon one, in a village in the western Peloponnese, and have perhaps found variants of it in villages that neighbor the village of my paternal ancestors.

He also plans on translating the 1514 census of the region, which apparently is more complete, and he agreed to send me the original ziyakat scripts, which is incredibly exciting! I guess I have to brush up on my Arabic reading skills.

peloponnesian
01-22-2021, 02:54 PM
For those of you who are interested in the medieval Ottoman defters of Greece, I have recently been in contact with George Liakopoulos of Max-Planck institute, who recently published "The Early Ottoman Peloponnese". His work focused on the 1462 Ottoman defter of the Peloponnese, however, there are parts of the region that are missing. When asked about why such regions are missing, his response is: "The TT10-1/14662 cadastre has survived in a fragmentary state and thus does not cover the entire peninsula. One of the missing districts was the one of Mystras in Laconia, as inferred from Priniḳos (Modern Asteri) village, which is surveyed together with settlements of Kalavryta that belonged to the timariot ʿAlī son of Cāyim. Other parts of the Morea, like Argos, Modon, Coron and Monemvasia were still under Venetian rule in the early 1460s, hence not included in the Ottoman register."

If you have roots from the Peloponnese, I encourage you to purchase his book. I was able to find my own surname, which is a rather uncommon one, in a village in the western Peloponnese, and have perhaps found variants of it in villages that neighbor the village of my paternal ancestors.

He also plans on translating the 1514 census of the region, which apparently is more complete, and he agreed to send me the original ziyakat scripts, which is incredibly exciting! I guess I have to brush up on my Arabic reading skills.

Great stuff. There's so much untapped potential in terms of historical, genealogical and genetic research in Greece but people don't want to touch these issues. I will definitely look into buying his book.

XXD
01-22-2021, 03:26 PM
For those of you who are interested in the medieval Ottoman defters of Greece, I have recently been in contact with George Liakopoulos of Max-Planck institute, who recently published "The Early Ottoman Peloponnese". His work focused on the 1462 Ottoman defter of the Peloponnese, however, there are parts of the region that are missing. When asked about why such regions are missing, his response is: "The TT10-1/14662 cadastre has survived in a fragmentary state and thus does not cover the entire peninsula. One of the missing districts was the one of Mystras in Laconia, as inferred from Priniḳos (Modern Asteri) village, which is surveyed together with settlements of Kalavryta that belonged to the timariot ʿAlī son of Cāyim. Other parts of the Morea, like Argos, Modon, Coron and Monemvasia were still under Venetian rule in the early 1460s, hence not included in the Ottoman register."

If you have roots from the Peloponnese, I encourage you to purchase his book. I was able to find my own surname, which is a rather uncommon one, in a village in the western Peloponnese, and have perhaps found variants of it in villages that neighbor the village of my paternal ancestors.

He also plans on translating the 1514 census of the region, which apparently is more complete, and he agreed to send me the original ziyakat scripts, which is incredibly exciting! I guess I have to brush up on my Arabic reading skills.

Thank you so much for this excellent post! You have exceeded your PM quota so I cannot message you.

Sorcelow
01-22-2021, 03:36 PM
Thank you so much for this excellent post! You have exceeded your PM quota so I cannot message you.

Mind trying again? I deleted some messages.

Exercitus
01-23-2021, 06:23 AM
Hi Sorcelow, i hope that the Defter of 1514 will be published as soon as possible !! If i may, the villages in which appears your surname how are labeled cemaat-i Rumyian or cemaat-i Arnavudan !?

lacreme
01-23-2021, 10:02 PM
Does anyone know how to find if a match in myheritage is real or fake if the other side doesn't have it's data uploaded on a more useful site like gedmatch ?

Specifically I'm talking about a non Greek "match" for my friend's mother who also have 3 more people in common, the matches daughter and 2 more who probably aren't Greeks or have Greek heritage.
Worth noting they have only 1 "ethnicity" in common.

It has the following characteristics
Shared DNA 0.6% (42.0‎ cM)
Shared segments 2
Largest 31.4‎ cM

( for what it's worth, the 2 segments are located in different chromosomes, the bigger in 10 and the smaller in 8 )

XXD
01-29-2021, 01:37 AM
A question that might interest some of you. A female acquaintance of mine has a maternal grandfather from Apolloniada, Bursa. He tested with 23andme, and got a haplogroup assignment of J‐L70, which is a subclade of J2a. It seems to be found primarily in Southern Anatolians, Iranians and Jews.

Any ideas on its origins?

He is unfortunately deceased and cannot test further.

eastara
01-29-2021, 10:04 AM
A question that might interest some of you. A female acquaintance of mine has a maternal grandfather from Apolloniada, Bursa. He tested with 23andme, and got a haplogroup assignment of J‐L70, which is a subclade of J2a. It seems to be found primarily in Southern Anatolians, Iranians and Jews.

Any ideas on its origins?

He is unfortunately deceased and cannot test further.

There was a special study, dealing with L397(L70)

A finely resolved phylogeny of Y chromosome Hg J illuminates the processes of Phoenician and Greek colonizations in the Mediterranean
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-25912-9

peloponnesian
01-29-2021, 11:39 AM
Has anyone living in Greece tested with Ancestry? Are they OK with shipping costs, times, etc? I'm thinking of testing with them because AFAIK they test different SNPs than the current generation of chips used by 23andMe and MyHeritage and it would be nice to combine them into a 'superkit'. Or maybe it's better to wait a bit and just do a Whole Genome Sequencing test when it gets cheaper? Thanks

Andrewid
02-03-2021, 12:42 PM
A Greek friend of mine has just tested with 23andme. I suggested she obtain her G25 coordinates from Davidski, which she now has. She has agreed for me to post them here.

I was wondering what our resident experts make of her coordinates in terms of where in the Greek world she comes from. On a G25 PCA, where would she plot in relation to other Greeks? I do know something of her ancestry, which I shall talk about later.

These are her coordinates:

M_scaled,0.119514,0.141159,0.01961,-0.007106,0.017849,-0.005578,0.003995,0.006461,-0.003272,0.012939,0,-0.002398,0.000446,0.005505,-0.017644,0.00358,0.023078,-0.001647,-0.00088,-0.005253,-0.003494,0.002226,0.007888,-0.001084,-0.005987

M,0.0105,0.0139,0.0052,-0.0022,0.0058,-0.002,0.0017,0.0028,-0.0016,0.0071,0,-0.0016

These are her results using the relevant Vahaduo calculator, using modern average populations:

Distance to: M_scaled
0.01965569 Rumelia_East
0.02269933 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.02499724 Macedonian:Central
0.02574182 Macedonian:Northwest
0.02585698 Macedonian:Southeast
0.02673591 Albanian
0.02729945 Macedonian:East1
0.02851570 Bulgarian
0.02919118 Macedonian:Pelagonia1
0.02945387 Gagauz
0.02998403 Greek_Macedonia
0.03258110 Greek_Thessaly
0.03353200 Greek_Peloponnese
0.03553634 Romanian
0.03707623 Swiss_Italian
0.04030302 Macedonian:East2
0.04030614 Greek_Laconia
0.04176278 Italian_Piedmont
0.04198347 Italian_Tuscany
0.04226118 Greek_Izmir
0.04237122 Italian_Northeast
0.04244744 Montenegrin
0.04255346 Italian_Veneto
0.04346631 Italian_Umbria
0.04483553 Serbian


Target: M_scaled
Distance: 1.3746% / 0.01374560
69.8 Macedonian
12.4 Greek_Central_Anatolia
10.2 Rumelia_East
5.8 Cossack_Kuban
1.4 Sardinian
0.4 Igbo


Distance to: M_unscaled
0.01234139 Macedonian:East1
0.01293790 Rumelia_East
0.01492496 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.01593191 Greek_Laconia
0.01631288 Macedonian:Central
0.01666103 Macedonian:Southeast
0.01712467 Bulgarian
0.01752855 Macedonian:North
0.01793351 Greek_Peloponnese
0.01804867 Albanian
0.01881304 Romanian
0.01883612 Greek_Izmir
0.01909345 Macedoniane:Pelagonia1
0.01954929 Turkish_Rumeli
0.01980447 Montenegrin
0.02055358 Gagauz
0.02129134 Greek_Macedonia
0.02161215 Greek_Thessaly
0.02230798 Serbian
0.02313016 Turkish_Deliorman
0.02379516 Italian_Basilicata
0.02416252 Greek_Crete
0.02419813 Moldovan
0.02455524 Macedonian:East2
0.02477260 Bosnian


Target: M_unscaled
Distance: 0.8724% / 0.00872370
85.2 Macedonian
6.6 Greek_Laconia
4.4 Turkish_Trabzon
2.4 Yakut
0.6 Madiga
0.4 Yoruba
0.2 Rumelia_East
0.2 Sardinian

Unscaled seems to give a closer fit. Should we use this, rather than scaled, when a fit is closer?

Your comments, which she shall be reading, are most welcome!

Johnny ola
02-03-2021, 02:27 PM
She Is prolly Northern Greek with maybe Thracian/Rumelian ancestor.

Andrewid
02-03-2021, 03:09 PM
She Is prolly Northern Greek with maybe Thracian/Rumelian ancestor.

I'll tell you when some others comment too:) But the results are a bit bizarre. I'd be interested to see how she plots on a Greek PCA

Markos
02-03-2021, 03:30 PM
I'll tell you when some others comment too:) But the results are a bit bizarre. I'd be interested to see how she plots on a Greek PCA

Have you tried her results without all of the specific Macedonian samples?

Riverman
02-03-2021, 03:43 PM
I'll tell you when some others comment too:) But the results are a bit bizarre. I'd be interested to see how she plots on a Greek PCA

In my simplest Roman related model she scores pretty much like Macedonians. Too Slavic for Greek Macedonians and too much Balkan-Anatolian for Bulgarians. Definitely more Northern and Slavic-like (about 46 percent) than the average Greeks even from the Northern provinces. But some individuals from Greek Macedonia comes close, especially
Greek_Macedonia:676
Greek_Macedonia:688
Which score in that model which I like to get a general impression more than 40 percent Slavic too.


Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Dai,0.0156507,-0.438709,-0.046763,-0.0609662,0.1201762,0.0622622,0.00047,-0.0073845,-0.0189698,-0.013121,0.0109208,0.0020232,-0.000446,-0.006193,0.0012895,0.0045742,0.0061282,-0.0009502,-0.0043368,-0.011662,0.0121972,0.0090268,0.0149438,0.002892,0. 007095
DEU_MA,0.1223596,0.1303939,0.061169,0.048773,0.039 792,0.0199408,0.010975,0.0052151,0.0013295,-0.0024966,-0.003735,0.001109,-0.0091576,-0.0038398,0.0161643,-0.0008352,-0.0133511,0.0032684,0.0041354,0.0040271,0.0060019, 0.0037342,-0.0007273,0.011146,-0.0004429
CZE_Early_Slav,0.12862,0.129988,0.068259,0.046835, 0.02739,0.013387,0.007285,0.014076,-0.001841,-0.018406,-0.000812,-0.004346,0.003717,0.007156,-0.010993,-0.003182,0.011604,-0.002027,-0.002388,-0.004752,0.005615,0.000618,0.001725,-0.000964,-0.006706
ITA_Rome_Latini_IA,0.127482,0.147252,0.033187,-0.016796,0.044008,-0.008646,-0.00376,-0.004846,0.026588,0.052666,-0.002761,0.015137,-0.036719,-0.008533,-0.009093,0.013392,0.016037,-0.004687,0.003897,0.004127,0.00262,-0.00272,0.001972,-0.007712,-0.008742
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,0.12862,0.1376045,0.0705215,0 .034238,0.0481625,0.004044,0.0019975,0.001385,0.01 8509,0.019955,-0.012017,-0.0052455,-0.00944,0.0006195,0.0095685,-0.0013255,-0.005998,0.001774,0.0048395,0.0080665,0.001061,0.0 019785,-0.0006165,-0.005422,-0.0034725
Levant_LBN_Roman,0.0887823,0.1447132,-0.0554368,-0.085595,-0.0116175,-0.0282378,-0.0074612,-0.0076152,0.0076698,0.0121642,0.0031262,-0.01139,0.0130822,-0.0017893,-0.0105862,0.0093475,0.002673,-0.0006652,0.0025138,0.0022512,0.000655,0.0059042,-0.0035742,0.0001205,-0.005299
Berber_Tunisia_Chen,-0.0279499,0.1390711,-0.0080871,-0.0764792,0.0277316,-0.0352023,-0.0313867,0.0052818,0.0684246,0.0297957,0.0040057,-0.0043877,0.0196314,-0.0161248,0.0140923,-0.0169052,0.0001521,-0.0232896,-0.0467247,0.0078579,-0.0168314,-0.0404275,0.0281347,-0.0044517,0.0063666
TUR_Ottoman,0.079107,-0.0741335,0.01829,-0.0075905,-0.043085,-0.0133865,0.0029375,0.000808,-0.010124,-0.012119,-0.00885,-0.0063695,-0.0057235,-0.0088075,0.0052255,0,0.007758,0.000887,-0.0018855,-0.000375,-0.0089845,-0.0004325,-0.0096135,-0.001747,0.0003595
ITA_Rome_Imperial,0.1039821,0.1495156,-0.0235307,-0.0574065,0.0045265,-0.0204055,-0.0011946,-0.0051488,0.0006604,0.0196549,0.0034575,0.0025539,-0.0040602,-0.0014737,-0.0081715,-0.0014474,0.0035992,0.000454,0.0012178,-0.0032854,-0.0025579,0.0020454,-0.0006985,-0.0004845,0.0004141
TUR_Alalakh_MLBA,0.0970122,0.1472908,-0.0604988,-0.090117,-0.0156477,-0.0341748,0.0015728,-0.0050412,-0.00306,0.0125111,0.006408,-0.0047555,0.0086109,0.004912,-0.0113588,0.0070272,-0.0005767,0.0018711,0.0047668,-0.002535,0.0021548,0.0038048,-0.0040007,-0.0040968,0.0005988

In my opinion she should plot somewhere between Slavic and Greek Macedonians.

Johnny ola
02-03-2021, 03:53 PM
Kinda northern shifted.I am wondering if she is not Greek Macedonian,what else?

Btw,she lacks anything related to Levant.


Target: M_scaled
Distance: 2.3888% / 0.02388829
46.8 HUN_Avar_Szolad
35.4 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
17.8 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2



Target: M_scaled
Distance: 2.0123% / 0.02012269
46.6 HUN_Avar_Szolad
34.6 TUR_Isparta_EBA
18.8 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2


Target: M_scaled
Distance: 2.5550% / 0.02555002
40.8 HUN_Avar_Szolad
33.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial
26.2 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2



Distance to: M_scaled
0.01965569 Rumelia_East
0.02269933 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.02673591 Albanian
0.02851570 Bulgarian
0.02945387 Gagauz
0.02998403 Greek_Macedonia
0.03258110 Greek_Thessaly
0.03269803 Macedonian
0.03353200 Greek_Peloponnese
0.03553634 Romanian
0.03707623 Swiss_Italian
0.04030614 Greek_Laconia
0.04176278 Italian_Piedmont
0.04198347 Italian_Tuscany
0.04226118 Greek_Izmir
0.04237122 Italian_Northeast
0.04244744 Montenegrin
0.04255346 Italian_Veneto
0.04346631 Italian_Umbria
0.04483553 Serbian
0.04526370 Italian_Marche
0.04660635 Italian_Molise
0.04793970 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04908301 Italian_Abruzzo
0.04922443 Italian_Lazio

Riverman
02-03-2021, 03:59 PM
Kinda northern shifted.I am wondering if she is not Greek Macedonian,what else?

Btw,she lacks anything related to Levant.


Target: M_scaled
Distance: 2.3888% / 0.02388829
46.8 HUN_Avar_Szolad
35.4 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
17.8 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2



Target: M_scaled
Distance: 2.0123% / 0.02012269
46.6 HUN_Avar_Szolad
34.6 TUR_Isparta_EBA
18.8 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2


Its a good sign that you come up with pretty similar results with different referenes:

Target: M_scaled
Distance: 2.2814% / 0.02281414
46.0 CZE_Early_Slav
18.6 ITA_Rome_Imperial
18.4 TUR_Alalakh_MLBA
17.0 ITA_Rome_Latini_IA

Makes her almost half Slavic-like, which is higher than in any other Greek from the G25 references.

Johnny ola
02-03-2021, 04:03 PM
Its a good sign that you come up with pretty similar results with different referenes:


Makes her almost half Slavic-like, which is higher than in any other Greek from the G25 references.



Mainland Greeks range between 30-45% 'Slavic' like.The rest is 'Greek-Greco Anatolian' with some Levantine influences(depends individual etc).This person here is a little bit higher on average but still not that far away from Greek Macedonians and Thracian/Rumelian Greeks.With a few words,they are a more southern version of Bulgarians/North Macedonians.

Markos
02-03-2021, 04:09 PM
She could be Vlach?

Riverman
02-03-2021, 04:15 PM
She could be Vlach?

Are there Vlach samples? Comparing her to Albanians, she doesn't fit into it all too well. Only one has as much Slavic, and they all have less Anatolian.

Johnny ola
02-03-2021, 04:21 PM
She could be Vlach?

I have no idea how Aromanians look like,thought they will obviously be 'mainland Greek' like if we take serious some Thessalian samples/kits we have seen.But this person here i suspect she is either Greek Macedonian or Thracian/Rumelian with roots from modern Bulgaria and Eastern Thrace.But,i am not avoiding the fact to have origins from somewhere like Thessaly/Epirus as well.

Andrewid
02-03-2021, 05:08 PM
Well I can tell you why I'm confused.

All four grandparents originate from the Peloponese. Paternal grandfather from a village near Kalamata. Maternal grandfather from Arcadia. Maternal grandmother has some origins from the Fanari (royalty no less!:)) and also from Agrafa in the southern Pindus range.

I did a little digging about Agrafa, being intrigued by the name. It seems it was autonomous under the Ottomans who couldn't subdue it; hence the name Agrafa i.e. unregistered or unwritten. Some sources indicate that not even the Byzantines could rule them and that the Byzantine Iconoclast Emperor, Kopronymos, wanted them erased from the map for refusing to destroy icons.

The irony is that the Agrafiotes, despite the name, were more literary than Greeks under Ottoman subjugation and many families are able to trace their families back several generations. Nikolaos Plastiras, the post-Greek civil war PM, was from there.

Apparently, toponyms do not suggest a Vlach settlement in this part of the Pindus range. However, Sarakatsans did apparently settle.

So, like others I'm looking for northern Greek connections for this Peloponesian. Apparently, the maternal grandmother, with partial origins from Agrafa, did have a Macedonian surname. I'll try to establish if this means a Slavic name. As most of her recent ancestry is Peloponesian, with only partial ancestry from elsewhere, it does surprise me that she seems to have closer hits to northern Greeks/south Slavs than to Peloponesians!

Johnny ola
02-03-2021, 05:35 PM
Well I can tell you why I'm confused.

All four grandparents originate from the Peloponese. Paternal grandfather from a village near Kalamata. Maternal grandfather from Arcadia. Maternal grandmother has some origins from the Fanari (royalty no less!:)) and also from Agrafa in the southern Pindus range.

I did a little digging about Agrafa, being intrigued by the name. It seems it was autonomous under the Ottomans who couldn't subdue it; hence the name Agrafa i.e. unregistered or unwritten. Some sources indicate that not even the Byzantines could rule them and that the Byzantine Iconoclast Emperor, Kopronymos, wanted them erased from the map for refusing to destroy icons.

The irony is that the Agrafiotes, despite the name, were more literary than Greeks under Ottoman subjugation and many families are able to trace their families back several generations. Nikolaos Plastiras, the post-Greek civil war PM, was from there.

Apparently, toponyms do not suggest a Vlach settlement in this part of the Pindus range. However, Sarakatsans did apparently settle.

So, like others I'm looking for northern Greek connections for this Peloponesian. Apparently, the maternal grandmother, with partial origins from Agrafa, did have a Macedonian surname. I'll try to establish if this means a Slavic name. As most of her recent ancestry is Peloponesian, with only partial ancestry from elsewhere, it does surprise me that she seems to have closer hits to northern Greeks/south Slavs than to Peloponesians!

If she has origins from Costantinoupoli that may explains her norhern shift.Most kits we have seen from there are close to Greek Macedonians and Thracian Greeks.But anyway,there are many options being so northern shifted.Sarakatsani ancestry might be a good thinking.

Greekscholar
02-03-2021, 05:53 PM
Well I can tell you why I'm confused.

All four grandparents originate from the Peloponese. Paternal grandfather from a village near Kalamata. Maternal grandfather from Arcadia. Maternal grandmother has some origins from the Fanari (royalty no less!:)) and also from Agrafa in the southern Pindus range.

I did a little digging about Agrafa, being intrigued by the name. It seems it was autonomous under the Ottomans who couldn't subdue it; hence the name Agrafa i.e. unregistered or unwritten. Some sources indicate that not even the Byzantines could rule them and that the Byzantine Iconoclast Emperor, Kopronymos, wanted them erased from the map for refusing to destroy icons.

The irony is that the Agrafiotes, despite the name, were more literary than Greeks under Ottoman subjugation and many families are able to trace their families back several generations. Nikolaos Plastiras, the post-Greek civil war PM, was from there.

Apparently, toponyms do not suggest a Vlach settlement in this part of the Pindus range. However, Sarakatsans did apparently settle.

So, like others I'm looking for northern Greek connections for this Peloponesian. Apparently, the maternal grandmother, with partial origins from Agrafa, did have a Macedonian surname. I'll try to establish if this means a Slavic name. As most of her recent ancestry is Peloponesian, with only partial ancestry from elsewhere, it does surprise me that she seems to have closer hits to northern Greeks/south Slavs than to Peloponesians!

This is like the American "we came on the Mayflower" stories. How many parts of Greece claim to have never been subject to the Ottomans? Off the top of my head I can think of Ikaria, Mani, Sfakia, now Agrafa. Maybe they are all true. I tend to think the entire millet system meant actual "Turks" never came to many of these isolated places, they were administered by the local churches who collected the taxes and kept things in order.

As for your friend, I think it shows us something of what we already see in the Peloponnese, there is a wide range of genetic variation there.

Markos
02-03-2021, 05:58 PM
Are there Vlach samples? Comparing her to Albanians, she doesn't fit into it all too well. Only one has as much Slavic, and they all have less Anatolian.

To be fair, I beleive they're quite close to Gagauz in single population results I've seen on GEDMatch. I haven't seen any on Vahaduo or with coordinates though I wonder if I can contact someone who could provide me with that.

Riverman
02-03-2021, 06:02 PM
To be fair, I beleive they're quite close to Gagauz in single population results I've seen on GEDMatch. I haven't seen any on Vahaduo or with coordinates though I wonder if I can contact someone who could provide me with that.

From what I heard the Vlachs are unlikely to be that homogeneous by now anyway. There might be significant differences between various regional groups. For the case in question, we would need Vlachs from Greece. For a Peleponnesian she is indeed very Northern shifted, its like she has an East Slavic great grandparent or the like. I'm not saying that's the case, rather not obviously, but that's how far she is from the regions average.

Markos
02-03-2021, 06:27 PM
From what I heard the Vlachs are unlikely to be that homogeneous by now anyway. There might be significant differences between various regional groups. For the case in question, we would need Vlachs from Greece. For a Peleponnesian she is indeed very Northern shifted, its like she has an East Slavic great grandparent or the like. I'm not saying that's the case, rather not obviously, but that's how far she is from the regions average.

Yeah, I was speaking about a Greek Vlach. I'll see if I can share their results. But yes, her results are quite interesting.

Johnny ola
02-03-2021, 06:27 PM
This is like the American "we came on the Mayflower" stories. How many parts of Greece claim to have never been subject to the Ottomans? Off the top of my head I can think of Ikaria, Mani, Sfakia, now Agrafa. Maybe they are all true. I tend to think the entire millet system meant actual "Turks" never came to many of these isolated places, they were administered by the local churches who collected the taxes and kept things in order.

As for your friend, I think it shows us something of what we already see in the Peloponnese, there is a wide range of genetic variation there.

Eptanisa as well.In general kleftes and armatoli found hideway in mountainous areas to escape the Ottoman push.

Andrewid
02-03-2021, 10:22 PM
I understand the Macedonian name from the maternal grandmother side is Καψουδας. Other family names include Κωστοπουλου (very Peloponesian), Γκερμβισιωτη and Σπυροπουλος. What makes her story even more interesting is that recent generations on her maternal grandfather's side had apparently settled in Thessaly, in the Trikala area to be precise. The story I'm hearing is that families had fled the Peloponese during the Greek revolution and had taken refuge in the Epirote mountains. They only descended to the Trikala area after Enosis with Greece in 1881, and in particular the καραγκουνικα villages. So you may be on to something Johnny- she might even have a kleft or armatoli pedigree! And perhaps there is some Karangouni admixture that my friend is unaware of. Some claim the Karagounides to be Hellenized Arvanites (which wouldn't be unusual in the Peloponese itself) or Hellenized Vlachs. All these groups would have Paleo-Balkan too.

What's also interesting is that I made a K36 similarity map before the G25 coordinates came out and this showed the Peloponese/Attica as close hits but alongside several south Slav areas.

https://i.imgur.com/5hHYJCa.png


Thanks for all your input, for which my friend is very grateful.

Johnny ola
02-03-2021, 10:27 PM
I understand the Macedonian name from the maternal grandmother side is Καψουδας. Other family names include Κωστοπουλου (very Peloponesian), Γκερμβισιωτη and Σπυροπουλος. What makes her story even more interesting is that recent generations on her maternal grandfather's side had apparently settled in Thessaly, in the Trikala area to be precise. The story I'm hearing is that families had fled the Peloponese during the Greek revolution and had taken refuge in the Epirote mountains. They only descended to the Trikala area after Enosis with Greece in 1881, and in particular the καραγκουνικα villages. So you may be on to something Johnny- she might even have a kleft or armatoli pedigree! And perhaps there is some Karangouni admixture that my friend is unaware of. Some claim the Karagounides to be Hellenized Arvanites (which wouldn't be unusual in the Peloponese itself) or Hellenized Vlachs. All these groups would have Paleo-Balkan too.

What's also interesting is that I made a K36 similarity map before the G25 coordinates came out and this showed the Peloponese/Attica as close hits but alongside several south Slav areas.

https://i.imgur.com/5hHYJCa.png


Thanks for all your input, for which my friend is very grateful.



Karagounides to me they seem to be..more like a 'Vlach-Sarakatsani' subgroup not exactly Arvanites.Well,you should convince her to buy yDNA for her father.It will help her i guess.

XXD
02-03-2021, 11:31 PM
Hey ladies and gents!

So as some of you might know, I am waiting for my Y 111 FTDNA results. In the meantime, I am trying to contact people with the same paternal surname from my ancestral village in Chios. My ancestors left Chios for Istanbul in the 1880's, precisely 5 generations ago, and since then they have been marrying non Chians. This would technically make me 6.25% Chian, although genetic inheritance isn't always that precise.

On 23andme, I have about 8 Chian matches, two of which (father and daughter) also match me on Gedmatch, and they have traced all their ancestors for the last 250 years, who were all Chian. I share a single segment of 13 cM and 7cM with the father and his daughter respectively, with a TMRCA of 5 generations. This would make sense, given my ancestors left 5 generations ago from Chios.

I have the following questions, and I would be grateful for your opinion:

1) I am 25% Cretan from my mother's side. I am wondering if my Chian matches could originate indirectly from my maternal Cretan ancestry, as many Cretans emigrated to Chios centuries ago? However, my maternal first cousin (who is also 25% Cretan), does not have any of my Chian 23andme or Gedmatch matches.

BUT, on Gedmatch autosomal comparison, when I decrease the minimum number of cM shared to 3, I get more matches in my Chian database, and even my cousin gets some Chian matches as well.

Do you think the results I get using the 3cM mode are are likely false positives, as we share with our new matches only segments of 4cM (which are considered unreliable)?

Furthermore, my cousin gets 5cM matches with a man, but zero with either of his parents, which obviously is impossible.

2) My paternal surname is present in about 20% of the men of our ancestral village. It describes a profession. I found one person who bears the same surname with me and is from the same village, and their Y haplogroup is different from mine. I immediately thought of NPE.

However, if my Chian matches on 23andme reflect "true" Chian ancestry, if an NPE did occur, then it must have taken place way before my ancestors left Chios (and by a Chian man).

Another possibility is that our surnames simply happen to be synonymous, because they describe a profession, and many of the surrounding villages have variants of this surname. I have not found any common ancestors in the oral history of the family with the person who has the same surname with me (but a different Y haplogroup).

Am I looking too much into things?

PS. I know for sure that there has been no NPE from my paternal side at least since my great grandfather.

XXD
02-04-2021, 12:15 AM
On the occasion, the Y chromosomes of my Chian matches:

G2a-PF3345
G2a-CTS9909/Z2022 (downstream of G2a-PF3345)
G2a-L1264
R1b-PF7562 (former PF7558)
R1a-M417
E-M34 (2 men)

Generally quite unusual Y haplogroups, excluding R1a. From what I have searched, G2a-CTS9909 is associated with Western Europe, whereas R1b-PF7562 has been found in Turkey, Albania, the Caucasus and even China and Saudi Arabia.

peloponnesian
02-04-2021, 12:45 PM
This is like the American "we came on the Mayflower" stories. How many parts of Greece claim to have never been subject to the Ottomans? Off the top of my head I can think of Ikaria, Mani, Sfakia, now Agrafa. Maybe they are all true. I tend to think the entire millet system meant actual "Turks" never came to many of these isolated places, they were administered by the local churches who collected the taxes and kept things in order.

It's ironic because the implication behind these urban legends is that they're "unmixed", but in Peloponnese it was the Venetian-ruled areas that received the most outside settlers (i.e. Arvanites), not the Ottoman.

peloponnesian
02-04-2021, 01:00 PM
2) My paternal surname is present in about 20% of the men of our ancestral village. It describes a profession. I found one person who bears the same surname with me and is from the same village, and their Y haplogroup is different from mine. I immediately thought of NPE.

However, if my Chian matches on 23andme reflect "true" Chian ancestry, if an NPE did occur, then it must have taken place way before my ancestors left Chios (and by a Chian man).

Another possibility is that our surnames simply happen to be synonymous, because they describe a profession, and many of the surrounding villages have variants of this surname. I have not found any common ancestors in the oral history of the family with the person who has the same surname with me (but a different Y haplogroup).

Am I looking too much into things?

PS. I know for sure that there has been no NPE from my paternal side at least since my great grandfather.

If it's an occupation-related surname or a descriptive one (παρατσούκλι) don't worry too much about NPE. I found a DNA relative on 23andMe with the same surname and from around the same area in Laconia and he didn't have the same haplogroup as me.

XXD
02-04-2021, 01:13 PM
If it's an occupation-related surname or a descriptive one (παρατσούκλι) don't worry too much about NPE. I found a DNA relative on 23andMe with the same surname and from around the same area in Laconia and he didn't have the same haplogroup as me.

Thanks! There are variations of this surname in all the villages in an area of about 30 km. I guess I'd need to see the Y haplogroups of more people with this surname.

Greekscholar
02-04-2021, 08:24 PM
I understand the Macedonian name from the maternal grandmother side is Καψουδας. Other family names include Κωστοπουλου (very Peloponesian), Γκερμβισιωτη and Σπυροπουλος. What makes her story even more interesting is that recent generations on her maternal grandfather's side had apparently settled in Thessaly, in the Trikala area to be precise. The story I'm hearing is that families had fled the Peloponese during the Greek revolution and had taken refuge in the Epirote mountains. They only descended to the Trikala area after Enosis with Greece in 1881, and in particular the καραγκουνικα villages. So you may be on to something Johnny- she might even have a kleft or armatoli pedigree! And perhaps there is some Karangouni admixture that my friend is unaware of. Some claim the Karagounides to be Hellenized Arvanites (which wouldn't be unusual in the Peloponese itself) or Hellenized Vlachs. All these groups would have Paleo-Balkan too.

What's also interesting is that I made a K36 similarity map before the G25 coordinates came out and this showed the Peloponese/Attica as close hits but alongside several south Slav areas.

https://i.imgur.com/5hHYJCa.png


Thanks for all your input, for which my friend is very grateful.

I've seen a GEDmatch kit from a woman whose family was from Trikala. She was very northern shifted as well. The K36 looked almost identical, there were not any red areas, but instead a uniform orange over Mainland Greece, Albania, and some Southern Slav locations. I remember concluding she likely had Arvanite heritage based on GEDmatch, but it was a few years ago and I am not sure I saved the kit number.

Greekscholar
02-04-2021, 08:29 PM
Thanks! There are variations of this surname in all the villages in an area of about 30 km. I guess I'd need to see the Y haplogroups of more people with this surname.

I don't' know about Chios, but on Fourni surname changes were frequent in the 19th century. I know of at least 3 different families that have stories of changing their surname, and the photo I used to have as my Avatar had many of the men listed with 2 different surnames. It is very tough to make family trees because of this. All three of these surnames are in my pedigree, but I cant' be sure if they were the lines that changed their names, or not.

XXD
02-04-2021, 09:14 PM
I don't' know about Chios, but on Fourni surname changes were frequent in the 19th century. I know of at least 3 different families that have stories of changing their surname, and the photo I used to have as my Avatar had many of the men listed with 2 different surnames. It is very tough to make family trees because of this. All three of these surnames are in my pedigree, but I cant' be sure if they were the lines that changed their names, or not.

Thank you for the information! Anything that removes the possibility of NPE is welcome :p

Do you think my GEDMATCH matches with Chians could originate from my "true" paternal Chian ancestry, and not through my Cretan side?

Greekscholar
02-04-2021, 09:53 PM
Thank you for the information! Anything that removes the possibility of NPE is welcome :p

Do you think my GEDMATCH matches with Chians could originate from my "true" paternal Chian ancestry, and not through my Cretan side?

I would check to see if any of those alleged Chiote matches are part of an endogamic cluster, especially the two who only have Chiote ancestors in their family tree. The Chiotes I found were part of a cousin cluster centered around Dafnonas. Being 5 generations out, it not likely you would match very many in one of these clusters, but if you are interested in checking for 3cM or 4cM matching segments, you may be able to triangulate them with others from the cluster which would make them a better indication of actual IBD segments.

As to whether or not they came from Crete originally, that is a tougher question. Any discussion of the NE Aegean islands has to take into account depopulation and repopulation events. Fourni was only settled in modern times after piracy was finally stamped out in the 1830/1840s. So, everyone with roots on that island ultimately descends from people from other places in the genealogical time frame. I think you've said before that you believe your family lived, and survived, the massacre on Chios, but even still you would have 1,000s of other Greeks moving in and mixing about when the island was repopulated. So no easy answers on how to exclude your Cretan lines from being possible matches on Chios, but if these lines have been on Chios since the 1800s, they are maybe best considered "Chiote" regardless. Otherwise, it becomes difficult to say anyone is really "from" most of the NE Aegean islands.

XXD
02-04-2021, 11:23 PM
I would check to see if any of those alleged Chiote matches are part of an endogamic cluster, especially the two who only have Chiote ancestors in their family tree. The Chiotes I found were part of a cousin cluster centered around Dafnonas. Being 5 generations out, it not likely you would match very many in one of these clusters, but if you are interested in checking for 3cM or 4cM matching segments, you may be able to triangulate them with others from the cluster which would make them a better indication of actual IBD segments.

As to whether or not they came from Crete originally, that is a tougher question. Any discussion of the NE Aegean islands has to take into account depopulation and repopulation events. Fourni was only settled in modern times after piracy was finally stamped out in the 1830/1840s. So, everyone with roots on that island ultimately descends from people from other places in the genealogical time frame. I think you've said before that you believe your family lived, and survived, the massacre on Chios, but even still you would have 1,000s of other Greeks moving in and mixing about when the island was repopulated. So no easy answers on how to exclude your Cretan lines from being possible matches on Chios, but if these lines have been on Chios since the 1800s, they are maybe best considered "Chiote" regardless. Otherwise, it becomes difficult to say anyone is really "from" most of the NE Aegean islands.

Thank you very much for your excellent answer!

Yes, the Chian father and daughter I match to are also from Dafnonas, and they are part of a pretty endogamous population. Apparently the father's wife is his second cousin. But out of 30 Chian kits, I only match with this family. If I lower the cM to 3, I match with about 10, but its mostly segments of 3 or 5 cM, and as I said previously, I get matches with a child but not with their parents, which is impossible. So I treat the matches with the 3cM setting as a false positive (and even my cousin gets some matches this way).

I also found documents that my family was in Chios at least since 1797, and they indeed survived the 1822 massacre. They apparently left for Samos for 5 years immediately after the massacre, and then returned back to their village in Chios. I have some Samos matches too, so perhaps they picked up a wife on the way :P All this assumes that there was no NPE; I hope that my Chian matches confirm this.

Perhaps I am relying too much on surnames, which were very fluid at that time. From 1850, my paternal ancestors have changed surnames 3 times (always after a family feud :p ).

PS. Based on the Chiotes I've seen on 23andme, and their Gedmatch profiles, I'd say that most of the Chian population (at least in rural areas) is genetically similar to the population prior to the massacre.

Markos
02-05-2021, 12:41 AM
I have a large number of matches on 23andMe from Chios. Equal to or maybe even more than Samos. There was a lot of migration back-and-forth between the two islands going back to the massacre, 'plagues', and piracy. But, I don't have any documented ancestry from there anyway. Could easily be Samiotes who settled in Chios for all I know.

Greekscholar
02-05-2021, 01:09 AM
Thank you very much for your excellent answer!

Yes, the Chian father and daughter I match to are also from Dafnonas, and they are part of a pretty endogamous population. Apparently the father's wife is his second cousin. But out of 30 Chian kits, I only match with this family. If I lower the cM to 3, I match with about 10, but its mostly segments of 3 or 5 cM, and as I said previously, I get matches with a child but not with their parents, which is impossible. So I treat the matches with the 3cM setting as a false positive (and even my cousin gets some matches this way).

I also found documents that my family was in Chios at least since 1797, and they indeed survived the 1822 massacre. They apparently left for Samos for 5 years immediately after the massacre, and then returned back to their village in Chios. I have some Samos matches too, so perhaps they picked up a wife on the way :P All this assumes that there was no NPE; I hope that my Chian matches confirm this.

Perhaps I am relying too much on surnames, which were very fluid at that time. From 1850, my paternal ancestors have changed surnames 3 times (always after a family feud :p ).

PS. Based on the Chiotes I've seen on 23andme, and their Gedmatch profiles, I'd say that most of the Chian population (at least in rural areas) is genetically similar to the population prior to the massacre.

That is really neat. I had read that Chios was repopulated by many of the former residents who had fled, and had heard that many went to Samos. It is interesting to put a personal story to the information you read.

Yes, I know exactly which two kits you mean. I don't personally match either, but found them through a cluster of likely partial Chiote descended folks who are weakly linked to some in the big Ikaria cluster that dominates my match list on all services (more Ikarians than Fourniotes out there.) And there is some of the difficulty. Which way did the DNA flow? Or is that even a relevant question to ask? If you've looked through those Ikarian and related GEDmatch clusters enough (and I figure you found them if you accessed these two kits) it gets really soupy. I personally think it goes beyond just cousin marriage and is a bit of pedigree collapse. Probably a relic of repopulation events of the 19th century seeded from from locations that already had endogamy present.

Greekscholar
02-05-2021, 01:20 AM
I have a large number of matches on 23andMe from Chios. Equal to or maybe even more than Samos. There was a lot of migration back-and-forth between the two islands going back to the massacre, 'plagues', and piracy. But, I don't have any documented ancestry from there anyway. Could easily be Samiotes who settled in Chios for all I know.

You are correct, at least as far as Ikaria and Fourni are concerned. I have two direct ancestors who were born on Samos. One moved to Ikaria, then Fourni (where he married) then the USA. The other moved to Fourni around 1900 and married there and lived out his life. My DNA matches through his siblings who moved to the US should not match any of my cousins from Fourni based on our family trees(except those that share his direct line,) yet they still do.

XXD
02-05-2021, 01:41 AM
You are correct, at least as far as Ikaria and Fourni are concerned. I have two direct ancestors who were born on Samos. One moved to Ikaria, then Fourni (where he married) then the USA. The other moved to Fourni around 1900 and married there and lived out his life. My DNA matches through his siblings who moved to the US should not match any of my cousins from Fourni based on our family trees(except those that share his direct line,) yet they still do.

Thank you both once more for your great answers! It gets really soupy as you say. The Chios population was fairly homogenous until the massacre, although there were small scale migrations from other areas in the late 15th century. The far biggest contribution of these was by Samian settlers, but there were also movements from the Peloponnese, Dodecanese, Crete and even more exotic places. There are (or at least were) toponyms and surnames such as Arvanitika, Sklavochori, Coumanika, Katalanika, Alamanika, Armenika, Makedonia, Tsakonia, Vlachika, Voulgarika, Tartari, etc.

After the massacre Chians migrated towards all directions, but places like Samos, Limnos, Syros, Smyrna etc. received the greatest number.

So Samian and Lemnian matches in modern Chians could reflect both migrations to and from Chios.

Perhaps my R1b CTS1450 entered the island with one of those 15th century migrations, as most people here have suggested an Arvanite connection (which I am still wary of; lets see what FTDNA Y 111 shows). I highly doubt all Greek R1b Z2103 and its downstream subclades are connected with Arvanites, unless there was an enormous annihilation of ancient Greek R1b.

An irony of fate. My Chian ancestors emigrated to Istanbul after the big 1880 earthquake, and moved to "Mastiha Street"...

Greekscholar
02-05-2021, 01:45 AM
Thank you both once more for your great answers! It gets really soupy as you say. The Chios population was fairly homogenous until the massacre, although there were small scale migrations from other areas in the late 15th century. The far biggest contribution of these was by Samian settlers, but there were also movements from the Peloponnese, Dodecanese, Crete and even more exotic places. There are (or at least were) toponyms and surnames such as Arvanitika, Sklavochori, Coumanika, Katalanika, Alamanika, Armenika, Makedonia, Tsakonia, Vlachika, Voulgarika, Tartari, etc.

After the massacre Chians migrated towards all directions, but places like Samos, Limnos, Syros, Smyrna etc. received the greatest number.

So Samian and Lemnian matches in modern Chians could reflect both migrations to and from Chios.

Perhaps my R1b CTS1450 entered the island with one of those 15th century migrations, as most people here have suggested an Arvanite connection (which I am still wary of; lets see what FTDNA Y 111 shows). I highly doubt all R1b Z2103 and its downstream subclades are all connected with Arvanites, unless there was an enormous annihilation of ancient Greek R1b.

They took My Greek Odysseus off of Amazon Prime, but the episode on Syros was one of my favorites. They showed some of the Chiote diaspora community, played their music, it is an interesting island because of its explosive population growth in the 19th century too.

XXD
02-05-2021, 01:51 AM
They took My Greek Odysseus off of Amazon Prime, but the episode on Syros was one of my favorites. They showed some of the Chiote diaspora community, played their music, it is an interesting island because of its explosive population growth in the 19th century too.

Ah, famous Syros. Its an incredible place, you should definitely visit it at some point, if you haven't already done so. I wonder about their genetics :P

Markos
02-05-2021, 01:58 AM
Ah, famous Syros. Its an incredible place, you should definitely visit it at some point, if you haven't already done so. I wonder about their genetics :P

A branch from my paternal lineage is from Syros, actually. It could very well be where my surname hails from but it's hard to say without confirmation. My surname is said to have been derived from 'Canon ball' as we are known for generations to have been blacksmiths who worked on ships. Pirates probably, tbh lol.

lacreme
02-06-2021, 08:57 AM
In the abscence of a parent's genetic data, which is the best way to "produce" its supposed coordinates ? Creating its phased kit on gedmatch or calculating its 50% for use with each calculator using the available data from the child and the other parent ?
Tried playing with both methods to produce my friend's father results using his data and his mother's, for use with Eurogenes K13.

I ended up with the following set of coordinates (the first having the obvious noise of phasing )

ChrisDad_phased,16.38,9.5,23.44,15.36,22.06,1.66,3 .46,2.53,0,0.37,0.72,1.03,3.48
ChrisDad_calculated,16.92,10.99,28.13,17.65,24.66, 1.09,2.17,0.05,0,0,0.21,0,0.6

A reminder that this person's known heritage is 50% Peloponnesian from Elis ( close to the borders with Arcadia ) and 50% Smyrniot.

Also, had my friend and mother tested with each and every company available and produced the relevant kits ,how much would be the variation/range of each of their values ?
In this scenario, for example on eurogenes k13, having being tested on myheritage, their W. Med. values are around 23 and 18 for my friend and his mother respectively. How much would their min/max range ?

Markos
02-06-2021, 09:25 PM
In the abscence of a parent's genetic data, which is the best way to "produce" its supposed coordinates ? Creating its phased kit on gedmatch or calculating its 50% for use with each calculator using the available data from the child and the other parent ?
Tried playing with both methods to produce my friend's father results using his data and his mother's, for use with Eurogenes K13.

I ended up with the following set of coordinates (the first having the obvious noise of phasing )

ChrisDad_phased,16.38,9.5,23.44,15.36,22.06,1.66,3 .46,2.53,0,0.37,0.72,1.03,3.48
ChrisDad_calculated,16.92,10.99,28.13,17.65,24.66, 1.09,2.17,0.05,0,0,0.21,0,0.6

A reminder that this person's known heritage is 50% Peloponnesian from Elis ( close to the borders with Arcadia ) and 50% Smyrniot.

Also, had my friend and mother tested with each and every company available and produced the relevant kits ,how much would be the variation/range of each of their values ?
In this scenario, for example on eurogenes k13, having being tested on myheritage, their W. Med. values are around 23 and 18 for my friend and his mother respectively. How much would their min/max range ?

I think it's hit or miss..it's hard to say.

My father's phased results for K13:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.84
2 West_Med 18.1
3 West_Asian 17.13
4 North_Atlantic 13.3
5 Baltic 9.79
6 South_Asian 3.33
7 Northeast_African 2.51
8 Red_Sea 2
9 Sub-Saharan 1.76
10 Siberian 1.37
11 Amerindian 1.32
12 Oceanian 1.32
13 East_Asian 1.23

- It gives him every single category at 1+...probably isn't accurate. But, I suspect some is but hard to say definitively.

His GEDMatch single population may not be that far off:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 7.54
2 East_Sicilian 7.91
3 South_Italian 9.31
4 Italian_Abruzzo 9.96
5 Ashkenazi 10.37
6 Greek_Thessaly 10.37
7 West_Sicilian 11.02
8 Algerian_Jewish 14.1
9 Sephardic_Jewish 14.13
10 Italian_Jewish 14.68
11 Tuscan 15.95
12 Turkish 15.95
13 Tunisian_Jewish 16.8
14 Bulgarian 16.97
15 Libyan_Jewish 17.07
16 Cyprian 17.13
17 Lebanese_Muslim 18.73
18 Romanian 19.09
19 Syrian 19.64
20 Azeri 20.9

As well as a quick run on Vahaduo:


Target: MarkosFather_phased
Distance: 2.4906% / 2.49060080 | ADC: 0.5x RC
38.7 Greek_Cyclades
29.2 Greek_Crete
15.7 Turk_North_West
12.6 Gypsy_Wallachia
3.8 Sudanese

- Cyclades/Crete/Gypsy %'s seem accurate from our paper trail and known ancestry, but the Turk/Sudanese %'s seem only visible because of (most likely) false Siberian and SSA phased %'s.

In comparison, his K13/Vahaduo results, using myself as the mid-way point between my father and my mother:


MarkosFather_phased,16.06,7.69,21.52,17.28,30.6,0. 91,3.66,-0.99,0.3,1.42,1.26,0.3,0.00

Distance to: MarkosFather_midway
6.17224432 Greek_North_Aegean
6.29546662 IT_Campania
6.80122783 IT_Apulia
6.87922961 Greek_Ionia
6.88026162 Greek_Cyclades
7.01141926 Greek_Crete
7.34171642 Sicily
7.66152074 IT_Calabria
7.71598989 IT_Molise
8.07939973 Malta
8.22246313 IT_Basilicata
8.22814074 Greek_Dodecanese
8.23822190 Greek_Andros_Island
8.25370826 IT_Abruzzo
8.43662255 Greek_Chios
8.62238946 Greek_Athens
8.84473290 Greek_Central
9.30097844 Greek_Symi_Island
10.95886399 Ashkenazi
11.03488106 Greek_Peloponnese
11.07691744 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
11.14518730 Turk_Crete
11.46363380 Greek_Western-Thrace
11.57340054 Moldova_Jewish
11.58716963 Greek_Istanbul

Target: MarkosFather_midway
Distance: 4.7378% / 4.73784621 | ADC: 0.5x RC
50.5 Greek_North_Aegean
30.6 IT_Apulia
11.6 Gypsy_Wallachia
7.3 IT_Campania

- Actually not bad either! The distances are far even at 0.00x which may be due to the 'unnatural' algorithm which gives him some %'s in the minuses. This makes it a little hard to discern which specific components are accurate but the overall results are actually pretty solid.

lacreme
02-06-2021, 10:33 PM
My friend's father using both methods.
His distances on k13 extended, pretty similar lists



Distance to: ChrisDad_calculated
9.26348746 Greek_Athens
9.49924734 Greek_Western-Thrace
9.58427358 Greek_Central
9.83422086 IT_Apulia
9.86168343 Greek_Cyclades
10.08803251 Greek_Ionia
10.64448684 IT_Molise
10.76785958 Greek_Peloponnese
10.79926849 Sicily
10.92041208 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
10.92297121 Greek_West_Macedonia
10.92757064 Greek_West
10.93975320 Greek
10.95921986 IT_Abruzzo
11.23607138 IT_Basilicata
11.33562967 IT_Campania
11.44612598 Greek_Northeast
11.52433946 Greek_Central_Macedonia
11.76719593 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
11.78584320 IT_Lazio
11.94494872 Greek_North_Aegean
12.08408044 Albanian_Tosk
12.17575870 Greek_Andros_Island
12.26314397 IT_Marche
12.34743698 Greek_Eastern-Thrace

Distance to: ChrisDad_phased
9.18039215 Greek_Athens
9.29295970 Greek_Central
9.49765234 Greek_Cyclades
9.60554527 Greek_Western-Thrace
10.12846484 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
10.17720492 IT_Apulia
10.18941608 Greek_Peloponnese
10.22718436 Greek_West_Macedonia
10.26549560 Sicily
10.27688669 Greek_Ionia
10.42723357 Greek
10.57796767 Turk_Crete
10.61473975 IT_Basilicata
10.65590447 IT_Molise
10.72842952 Greek_Northeast
10.76256010 IT_Abruzzo
10.92310395 Greek_West
11.14415542 Greek_Central_Macedonia
11.23504784 Greek_Andros_Island
11.31607264 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
11.35355011 IT_Campania
11.59073876 Greek_Thessaly
11.67956763 IT_Lazio
11.69608482 Albanian_Tosk
11.95951922 IT_Marche


His mix reduced to 4 populations

Target: ChrisDad_calculated
Distance: 2.1487% / 2.14867399 | R4P
40.4 Greek_Northern-Thrace
34.1 Sardinia
21.3 Georgian_imereti
4.2 Gypsy_Wallachia


Target: ChrisDad_phased
Distance: 3.9955% / 3.99546280 | R4P
56.9 Greek_Western-Thrace
19.6 Balkar
18.0 Sardinia
5.5 Bantu_N.E.

At 0.25 RC and 0.5 RC respectively



Target: ChrisDad_calculated
Distance: 2.7520% / 2.75201641 | ADC: 0.25x RC
42.6 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
30.4 Sardinia
12.5 Greek_Western-Thrace
11.5 Georgian_imereti
3.0 Kalash

Target: ChrisDad_phased
Distance: 1.1356% / 1.13563924 | ADC: 0.25x RC
38.9 Greek_Western-Thrace
19.9 Sardinia
13.0 Greek_Athens
9.2 Balkar
8.7 Iran_Bandari
4.9 Gypsy_Wallachia
3.4 Biaka_Pygmy
2.0 Malay

Target: ChrisDad_calculated
Distance: 3.8181% / 3.81808920 | ADC: 0.5x RC
36.7 Greek_Western-Thrace
23.6 Sardinia
22.6 Greek_Athens
17.1 Georgian_imereti

Target: ChrisDad_phased
Distance: 3.0141% / 3.01407399 | ADC: 0.5x RC
37.5 Greek_Western-Thrace
25.3 Turk_North_West
17.5 Sardinia
12.8 Gypsy_Wallachia
4.1 Biaka_Pygmy
2.8 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia



What can you make of them ? Based on his paper trail (Smyrniot+Peloponnesian) does the modeling of Northern Greece + (bigger) West Med and (equal or lesser) Caucasian pull seem normal/expected ?

Markos
02-06-2021, 10:47 PM
What can you make of them ? Based on his paper trail (Smyrniot+Peloponnesian) does the modeling of Northern Greece + (bigger) West Med and (equal or lesser) Caucasian pull seem normal/expected ?

His East Med is especially very low for his ancestry, don't you think?

lacreme
02-07-2021, 12:33 AM
His East Med is especially very low for his ancestry, don't you think?

On the phased results sure, on the 50% method though his east med is very close to the "Greek_Thessaly" average. Not an unexpected result imho if his Peloponnesian mother from Elis has an arvanite/vlach/nw greek profile and if his Smyrniot father is mainland shifted.
Personally I wonder why his West Med is getting so high..on the phased model is on the top end of the Greek range and on the 50% model is beyond the normal range.

Markos
02-07-2021, 01:39 AM
On the phased results sure, on the 50% method though his east med is very close to the "Greek_Thessaly" average. Not an unexpected result imho if his Peloponnesian mother from Elis has an arvanite/vlach/nw greek profile and if his Smyrniot father is mainland shifted.

That's true! The Peloponnese is proving to be a genetic crap shoot, lol. Such a mixed bag.

Panos
02-07-2021, 09:01 AM
Anyone that can do some magic with these coordinates:

Litsa_scaled,0.111547,0.147252,0.00264,-0.031008,0.015387,-0.003347,0.008695,-0.000923,-0.01084,0.005467,-0.005359,-0.000599,-0.001784,0.006193,-0.010315,-0.001458,0.00352,0.0019,0.006159,0,-0.004617,0.003091,0.00037,-0.000241,-0.000718

Her known ancestry is 3/4 Thrakiotissa and 1/4 from Ayvali.

Michalis Moriopoulos
02-09-2021, 08:58 PM
Not sure if anyone else caught the Alemannic samples from 7th century Niederstotzingen, but these two from Grave 3 are interesting because they are clearly Southern European:

Average Distances
Distance to: DEU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine:NIEcap3b
0.02805697 Greek_Thessaly
0.02920665 Italian_Piedmont
0.02938693 Greek_Macedonia
0.03043361 Italian_Liguria
0.03084822 Italian_Lombardy
0.03254625 Gagauz
0.03274240 Albanian
0.03320617 Swiss_Italian
0.03394535 Italian_Northeast
0.03397484 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03400224 Italian_Veneto
0.03423459 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03497724 Italian_Tuscany
0.03502893 Italian_Bergamo
0.03601976 Bulgarian
0.03667267 Rumelia_East
0.03788349 Italian_Marche
0.03927923 Romanian
0.03977989 Macedonian
0.04097562 Greek_Peloponnese
0.04158458 Italian_Umbria
0.04285132 French_Provence
0.04460088 French_Corsica
0.04654409 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04662742 Italian_Molise

Distance to: DEU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine:NIEcap3c
0.02216622 Italian_Tuscany
0.02527635 Italian_Piedmont
0.02633866 Italian_Marche
0.02675820 Italian_Liguria
0.02708897 French_Corsica
0.02710971 Italian_Umbria
0.02877754 Swiss_Italian
0.02941231 Italian_Lombardy
0.03120870 Italian_Bergamo
0.03168935 Greek_Thessaly
0.03251078 Italian_Lazio
0.03512216 Italian_Veneto
0.03603065 Italian_Abruzzo
0.03695183 Italian_Molise
0.03745146 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03828951 Sicilian_West
0.03843600 Albanian
0.04010737 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04062457 Greek_Peloponnese
0.04086514 Italian_Apulia
0.04132938 Spanish_Menorca
0.04140934 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.04184179 Greek_Macedonia
0.04234542 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04236473 Spanish_Baleares

Individual Distances
Distance to: DEU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine:NIEcap3b
0.02015643 Italy_Proto-Villanovan_Abruzzo:RMPR1
0.02462481 Albanian:AL82
0.02768265 Greek_Thessaly:GreeceNE144
0.02784777 Italian_Piedmont:ItalyPiedmont136
0.02857180 Italian_Tuscany:Tuscany74
0.02875197 Italian_Veneto:ALP249
0.02895506 Hungary_Medieval_Szolad_Southern_Profile:SZ37
0.02990981 Greek_Central_Macedonia:674
0.03004195 Moldovan_(Southern_Balkan-Shifted):MOL-024
0.03043361 Italian_Liguria:ALP099
0.03044502 Greek_Thessaly:GreeceNE162
0.03056782 Greek_Central_Macedonia:GREEKGRALPOP11
0.03108228 Italian_Friuli_Venezia_Giulia:ALP346
0.03112070 Italian_Veneto:ALP322
0.03115205 Italian_Lombardy:BGD103
0.03129943 Greek_Central_Macedonia:GreeceNE11
0.03166315 Italian_Piedmont:Piedmont154
0.03180790 Italy_Medieval_Collegno_Southern_Profile:CL23
0.03202835 Greek_Eastern_Rumelia:642
0.03224757 Italian_Friuli_Venezia_Giulia:ALP506
0.03228572 Italian_Veneto:KF1803109
0.03245792 Scythian_Moldova:scy305
0.03249354 Italian_Trentino-Alto_Adige:ALP200
0.03250565 Turkish_(Bulgarian/Possibly_Pomak_Profile):15BA60

Distance to: DEU_MA_Alemanic_Byzantine:NIEcap3c
0.02460825 Italian_Piedmont:ItalyPiedmont145
0.02502147 Italian_Tuscany:NA20508
0.02634774 Italian_Marche:MarABU050D
0.02638820 Italian_Tuscany:Tuscany98
0.02675820 Italian_Liguria:ALP099
0.02676093 French_Corsica:Corsica24508
0.02680131 French_Corsica:CorsicaS13808
0.02722218 Italian_Tuscany:MURLO114
0.02730866 Italian_Tuscany:Tuscany27
0.02779148 French_Corsica:corsica29008
0.02781417 French_Provence_Marseille:S_34
0.02822720 Italian_Tuscany:Tuscany38
0.02832907 Italy_Medieval_Rome_Central_Italian_Profile:RMPR12 87
0.02853756 Italian_Marche:MarADC050D
0.02855431 Italian_Marche:MarABI020D
0.02855773 Italian_Tuscany:VO65
0.02856751 Italian_Veneto:ALP209
0.02857406 Italian_Tuscany:Tuscany65
0.02859712 Italian_Umbria:PG04
0.02896851 Italian_Tuscany:Tuscany74
0.02897313 Italian_Umbria:PG08
0.02907890 Italy_Late_Antiquity_Rome_North_Italian_Profile:RM PR33
0.02917318 Italian_Tuscany:NA20505
0.02930463 Italian_Piedmont:ItalyPiedmont136

3c looks like a Northern Italian transplant, but could 3b be of Greek descent? I'm not sure given his distances are pretty generic (scoring close to many non-Greek groups, too). Something has to explain the eastern pull, so he must have some kind of Balkan ancestry at least. Maybe Slavic ancestry (Greece was invaded by Slavs by this point in the Middle Ages), too, which could be tested with Avar Szolad as a modeling reference. Strontium analysis suggests 3b is not local to southern Germany. Mtdna is I5a1b and Y is G2a2b1, which are strongly suggestive of Mediterranean ties. Note that many of these samples are appended with the label "Byzantine" by Reichlab's newest curated list, but according to the paper only individuals 3A and 12B are actually buried with Byzantine grave goods (equestrian gear with Byzantine engravings and a lamella helmet, respectively). They could have gotten them through contacts with the Exarchate of Italy.

lockdownboredom
02-09-2021, 09:16 PM
Got a hold of G25 coordinates for anyone interested. My background is Epirote.

LB_scaled,0.121791,0.148267,0.01961,-0.015504,0.022466,-0.000279,0.00376,0.002538,-0.003681,0.015308,-0.001949,-0.004346,-0.001487,0.020093,-0.013301,-0.008353,-0.01017,0.005321,0.006913,-0.013006,-0.017594,-0.005564,0.006039,0.000482,0.010658

LB,0.0107,0.0146,0.0052,-0.0048,0.0073,-0.0001,0.0016,0.0011,-0.0018,0.0084,-0.0012,-0.0029,-0.001,0.0146,-0.0098,-0.0063,-0.0078,0.0042,0.0055,-0.0104,-0.0141,-0.0045,0.0049,0.0004,0.0089

Sorcelow
02-09-2021, 09:23 PM
Got a hold of G25 coordinates for anyone interested. My background is Epirote.

LB_scaled,0.121791,0.148267,0.01961,-0.015504,0.022466,-0.000279,0.00376,0.002538,-0.003681,0.015308,-0.001949,-0.004346,-0.001487,0.020093,-0.013301,-0.008353,-0.01017,0.005321,0.006913,-0.013006,-0.017594,-0.005564,0.006039,0.000482,0.010658

LB,0.0107,0.0146,0.0052,-0.0048,0.0073,-0.0001,0.0016,0.0011,-0.0018,0.0084,-0.0012,-0.0029,-0.001,0.0146,-0.0098,-0.0063,-0.0078,0.0042,0.0055,-0.0104,-0.0141,-0.0045,0.0049,0.0004,0.0089

Thank you. Do you mind sharing what villages exactly you are from?

Greekscholar
02-09-2021, 09:24 PM
Got a hold of G25 coordinates for anyone interested. My background is Epirote.

LB_scaled,0.121791,0.148267,0.01961,-0.015504,0.022466,-0.000279,0.00376,0.002538,-0.003681,0.015308,-0.001949,-0.004346,-0.001487,0.020093,-0.013301,-0.008353,-0.01017,0.005321,0.006913,-0.013006,-0.017594,-0.005564,0.006039,0.000482,0.010658

LB,0.0107,0.0146,0.0052,-0.0048,0.0073,-0.0001,0.0016,0.0011,-0.0018,0.0084,-0.0012,-0.0029,-0.001,0.0146,-0.0098,-0.0063,-0.0078,0.0042,0.0055,-0.0104,-0.0141,-0.0045,0.0049,0.0004,0.0089

Thanks!. Here is a quick model using all modern averages and distance to modern averages.

Target: LB_scaled
Distance: 2.7489% / 0.02748910
86.0 Greek_Macedonia
7.6 Italian_Liguria
4.6 Lithuanian_PZ
1.2 Samaritan
0.6 Italian_Lombardy

Distance to: LB_scaled
0.02836043 Greek_Macedonia
0.03361833 Greek_Thessaly
0.03467095 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03516772 Albanian
0.03549861 Gagauz
0.03731829 Rumelia_East
0.03951998 Greek_Peloponnese
0.03976083 Macedonian
0.04149046 Bulgarian
0.04398835 Italian_Liguria
0.04491487 Italian_Piedmont
0.04576022 Italian_Marche
0.04585071 Romanian
0.04781798 Italian_Tuscany
0.04815748 Italian_Lombardy
0.04821080 Swiss_Italian
0.04831878 Italian_Northeast
0.04896024 Italian_Veneto
0.04963764 Italian_Bergamo
0.05037961 Italian_Umbria
0.05082619 Italian_Molise
0.05098530 Greek_Laconia
0.05103511 Greek_Smyrna
0.05105921 Italian_Abruzzo
0.05107373 Serbian

lockdownboredom
02-09-2021, 09:27 PM
Thank you. Do you mind sharing what villages exactly you are from?

No worries. Villages in close proximity to Ioannina.

lockdownboredom
02-09-2021, 09:27 PM
[QUOTE=Greekscholar;746337]Thanks!.

No, thank you, my man.

Greekscholar
02-09-2021, 09:29 PM
An few ancient models. The fit is bad on the first couple (Neolithic models) so hopefully someone can do better.

Target: LB_scaled
Distance: 5.1411% / 0.05141076
58.2 Anatolia_Barcin_N
35.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
3.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.8 Baltic_LVA_HG
0.4 Levant_Natufian
0.0 GEO_CHG
0.0 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
0.0 WHG

Target: LB_scaled
Distance: 4.2189% / 0.04218869
62.6 Yamnaya_BGR
34.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.0 Levant_Natufian
0.0 Baltic_LVA_HG
0.0 GEO_CHG
0.0 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
0.0 RUS_Maykop
0.0 WHG
0.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara



Target: LB_scaled
Distance: 3.0581% / 0.03058133
44.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad
37.0 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
18.8 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
0.0 Levant_Ashkelon_IA2

Johnny ola
02-09-2021, 10:07 PM
You are the guy from apricity right?Do you know your yDNA?




Target: LB_scaled
Distance: 2.9045% / 0.02904524
45.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad
36.6 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
11.4 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
6.8 Levant_Megiddo_IA

Target: LB_scaled
Distance: 2.9497% / 0.02949748
44.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad
43.8 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
12.0 Levant_Megiddo_IA


Target: LB_scaled
Distance: 2.9432% / 0.02943172
44.6 HUN_Avar_Szolad
40.2 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
10.8 Levant_Megiddo_IA
4.4 TUR_Isparta_EBA



Target: LB_scaled
Distance: 1.9842% / 0.01984179
46.2 HUN_MA_Szolad_o1
16.6 VK2020_POL_Cedynia_VA
11.2 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
6.2 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
6.2 HUN_ALPc_I_MN
3.8 ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_o
2.8 Baltic_LTU_BA
2.2 VK2020_POL_Krakow_MA
1.6 TKM_Gonur3_BA
1.6 TKM_Parkhai_MBA
0.8 Levant_Yehud_IBA
0.8 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA_low_res

lockdownboredom
02-10-2021, 12:35 AM
[QUOTE=Johnny ola;746359]You are the guy from apricity right?Do you know your yDNA?

Yep. And you are the guy who was banned from apricity right? ;) Sisters results, so nope. OG thread with Gedmatch/MyHeritage results:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?326292-Myheritage-Greek-Result

Johnny ola
02-10-2021, 01:38 AM
[QUOTE=Johnny ola;746359]You are the guy from apricity right?Do you know your yDNA?

Yep. And you are the guy who was banned from apricity right? ;) Sisters results, so nope. OG thread with Gedmatch/MyHeritage results:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?326292-Myheritage-Greek-Result

Oh its your sisters ok.

Panos
02-10-2021, 08:41 AM
Got a hold of G25 coordinates for anyone interested. My background is Epirote.

LB_scaled,0.121791,0.148267,0.01961,-0.015504,0.022466,-0.000279,0.00376,0.002538,-0.003681,0.015308,-0.001949,-0.004346,-0.001487,0.020093,-0.013301,-0.008353,-0.01017,0.005321,0.006913,-0.013006,-0.017594,-0.005564,0.006039,0.000482,0.010658

LB,0.0107,0.0146,0.0052,-0.0048,0.0073,-0.0001,0.0016,0.0011,-0.0018,0.0084,-0.0012,-0.0029,-0.001,0.0146,-0.0098,-0.0063,-0.0078,0.0042,0.0055,-0.0104,-0.0141,-0.0045,0.0049,0.0004,0.0089

You can also add your coordinates and play in the PCA, for example Europe1:

https://vahaduo.github.io/g25views/#Europe1

It looks even here that your sister is northern shifted with Greek/Albanian and Balkan elements

peloponnesian
02-10-2021, 09:11 AM
3c looks like a Northern Italian transplant, but could 3b be of Greek descent? I'm not sure given his distances are pretty generic (scoring close to many non-Greek groups, too). Something has to explain the eastern pull, so he must have some kind of Balkan ancestry at least. Maybe Slavic ancestry (Greece was invaded by Slavs by this point in the Middle Ages), too, which could be tested with Avar Szolad as a modeling reference. Strontium analysis suggests 3b is not local to southern Germany. Mtdna is I5a1b and Y is G2a2b1, which are strongly suggestive of Mediterranean ties. Note that many of these samples are appended with the label "Byzantine" by Reichlab's newest curated list, but according to the paper only individuals 3A and 12B are actually buried with Byzantine grave goods (equestrian gear with Byzantine engravings and a lamella helmet, respectively). They could have gotten them through contacts with the Exarchate of Italy.

Wow, pretty crazy that archaeologists + geneticists can figure out stuff like this now! Yes, it'd be very interesting to find if they show any recent Slavic input because 7th century is when the Slavic settlement of the Balkans really started. Did you run a model with Avar Szolad?

Riverman
02-10-2021, 10:51 AM
3c looks like a Northern Italian transplant, but could 3b be of Greek descent? I'm not sure given his distances are pretty generic (scoring close to many non-Greek groups, too). Something has to explain the eastern pull, so he must have some kind of Balkan ancestry at least. Maybe Slavic ancestry (Greece was invaded by Slavs by this point in the Middle Ages), too, which could be tested with Avar Szolad as a modeling reference. Strontium analysis suggests 3b is not local to southern Germany. Mtdna is I5a1b and Y is G2a2b1, which are strongly suggestive of Mediterranean ties. Note that many of these samples are appended with the label "Byzantine" by Reichlab's newest curated list, but according to the paper only individuals 3A and 12B are actually buried with Byzantine grave goods (equestrian gear with Byzantine engravings and a lamella helmet, respectively). They could have gotten them through contacts with the Exarchate of Italy.

I wonder what their position in the local society was? Where they the equivalent to Varangian or German guards in Byzantium? Soldiers and mercenaries sent from allies?


The grave goods indicated contacts with Byzantines, Lombards, and Franks (Table 1 and fig. S1). These outside contacts appear to have been facilitated by equestrianism and guardianship of a nearby Roman crossroads. Two of the 12 graves (3 and 12) were multiple burials containing three individuals each, from which it has been inferred that they had close familial relationships (8). Both multiple burials contained Byzantine artifacts, lamella helmet (grave 12, individual 12B), and equestrian gear with Byzantine engravings (grave 3, individual 3A), suggesting eastern Mediterranean contact, whereas those buried with Frankish (individual 9) and Lombard (individual 6) artifacts support contact with eastern France and northern Italy (6, 8, 9).


Genomically, the individuals buried at Niederstotzingen can be split into two groups: Niederstotzingen North (1, 3A, 6, 9, 12B, and 12C), who have genomic signals that most resemble modern northern and eastern European populations, and Niederstotzingen South (3B and 3C), who most resemble modern-day Mediterraneans, albeit with recent common ancestry to other Europeans. Niederstotzingen North is composed of those buried with identifiable artifacts: Lombards (individual 6), Franks (individual 9), and Byzantines (individuals 3A and 12B), all of whom have strontium and oxygen isotope signals that support local provenance (fig. S2) (8). Just two individuals, 3B (Niederstotzingen South) and 10 (no sufficient autosomal data, with R1 Y-haplogroup), have nonlocal strontium isotope signals. The δ18O values suggest that individuals 10 and 3B may have originated from a higher-altitude region, possibly the Swiss-German Alpine foothills (8). Combined with the genome affinity of individual 3B to southern Europeans, these data provide direct evidence for incoming mobility at the site and for contact that went beyond exchange of grave goods (4). Familia had holdings across the Merovingian Kingdom and traveled long distances to maintain them; these holdings could have extended from northern Italy to the North Sea. Nobles displayed and accrued power by recruiting outside individuals into the household as part of their traveling retinue.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/9/eaao1262?intcmp=trendmd-adv

This shows however, once more, how important material goods and equipment were, even at that time they could point (don't have to all the time) to a completely different origin, rather than just "contact". I think it could be a Roman-Greek lineage which served as soldiers of rank and at one point, for whatever reason, changed its master and recruited more soldiers from the Greek-Roman world even or took their own retinue with them.

dosas
02-14-2021, 07:28 AM
There's a new paper for Calabrian Greeks, not sure if someone linked it elsewhere:


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-82591-9


Edit:

These are interesting, I think, one scatterplot and one pie chart from the Admixture runs. It seems that they bundle CHG and Iran_N under one label that they call Iran_N.




https://i.ibb.co/d5jSVzt/screencapture-www-nature-com-articles-s41598-021-82591-9-figures-4-1613300886141.png
https://i.ibb.co/6tFzPwC/screencapture-www-nature-com-articles-s41598-021-82591-9-figures-2-1613300830198.png


Thoughts? I need to re-read the paper but I think it mentions that the Caucasus admixture is a Neo/Post-Neo event?

peloponnesian
02-14-2021, 12:51 PM
Thoughts? I need to re-read the paper but I think it mentions that the Caucasus admixture is a Neo/Post-Neo event?

The problem with figuring out how exactly these populations came to be or when they started speaking Greek is that there's continuous genetic and cultural contact between mainland Greece and southern Italy since the Neolithic. There could even be a scenario where some southern Italian people were already genetically close to Greeks courtesy of a common Neolithic/Chalcolithic ancestry but picked up Greek way later via cultural transmission. Or to put it another way: how different/similar were Southern Italians to Greeks before the Greek settlement started? I think that's why the authors avoided to make any big statements about a specific connection with archaic/classical/Byzantine Greece.

23abc
02-20-2021, 09:47 AM
Went through my matches again and annotated everyone whose paternal origins are known. Here is some information I picked up about Haplogroups (removed duplicate surnames):


Kalymnians (59 Unique Surnames)

E
1 Total (~2%)
1x E-L791

G1
19 Total (32%)
19x G-CTS11562

I2
8 Total (~14%)
4x I-S12195
2x I-M223
1x I-CTS5966
1x I-L699

J1
5 Total (~8%)
3x J-CTS5368
2x J-M267

J2a
13 Total (~22%)
8x J-L70
3x J-M67
1x J-M172
1x J-L26

J2b
1 Total (~2%)
1x J-L283

R1a
6 Total (~10%)
3x R-M417
2x R-Z93
1x R-CTS3402

R1b
6 Total (~10%)
2x R-P297
2x R-L23
1x R-U152
1x R-M167

---

Cretans (17 Unique Surnames)

J1
1 Total (~6%)
1x J-M267

J2a
10 Total (~58%)
4x J-M67
3x J-L26
2x J-L70
1x J-M92

I1
2 Total (~12%)
1x I-L205.1
1x I-BY332

I2
1 Total (~6%)
1x I-Z26381

R1a
1 Total (~6%)
1x R-M512

R1b
2 Total (~12%)
1x R-U152
1x R-L23

---

Italians (20 Unique Surnames)

C
1 Total (5%)
1x C-M130

E
5 Total (25%)
2x E-V13
1x E-M183
1x E-L677
1x E-M123

G
2 Total (10%)
1x G-Z31464
1x G-PF4202

I
1 Total (5%)
1x I-CTS10057

J2a
5 Total (25%)
2x J-M67
2x J-L70
1x J-L26

Q
1 Total (5%)
1x Q-Y2225

R1a
1 Total (5%)
1x R-Z93

R1b
4 Total (20%)
1x R-L51
1x R-U152
1x R-P25_1
1x R-L23

Obviously there is small sample size especially for the Cretans and Italians but the numbers are really interesting. Apparently 1/3 of people from Kalymnos share the same paternal haplogroup (G-CTS11562), so there must have been a major founder effect there. It would be interesting to know how long ago the common founder was, maybe it could provide some answers to the timing of certain population movements from Anatolia if that's where it originates. The mtDNA has a similar thing, with 2 major mtDNA haplogroups being shared by the majority of people. The most common one apparently being most common in East Asia (China, Japan, Korea, etc.). Yet autosomally East Eurasian admixture is nearly entirely absent and found in traces among a small amount.

That leaves me to wonder how much information haplogroups really provides about one's ancestry? Going back 10 generations, there are 1024 lines and inherited from them are only 2 haplogroups. Autosomal allows each line of ancestry to give a fair share of information so seems more important for working out one's own ancestral origin. That is, unless you somehow worked out all 1024 haplogroups of your 10th generation ancestors, then it might provide better information? But that's not feasible, I can only know my own haplogroup.

dosas
02-20-2021, 10:26 AM
That leaves me to wonder how much information haplogroups really provides about one's ancestry? Going back 10 generations, there are 1024 lines and inherited from them are only 2 haplogroups. Autosomal allows each line of ancestry to give a fair share of information so seems more important for working out one's own ancestral origin. That is, unless you somehow worked out all 1024 haplogroups of your 10th generation ancestors, then it might provide better information? But that's not feasible, I can only know my own haplogroup.


That's because you don't know the terminal clades, so you get a generic R-L23, for example, that could mean anything under the sun.

If all of these people do proper Y-DNA testing, the age estimation will be very accurate for the splits.

Johnny ola
02-20-2021, 02:43 PM
The problem with figuring out how exactly these populations came to be or when they started speaking Greek is that there's continuous genetic and cultural contact between mainland Greece and southern Italy since the Neolithic. There could even be a scenario where some southern Italian people were already genetically close to Greeks courtesy of a common Neolithic/Chalcolithic ancestry but picked up Greek way later via cultural transmission. Or to put it another way: how different/similar were Southern Italians to Greeks before the Greek settlement started? I think that's why the authors avoided to make any big statements about a specific connection with archaic/classical/Byzantine Greece.

They would have been very close genetically from the LBA/IA period and after.South Italy/Sicily was more western genetically during neolithic/copper age and EBA-MBA periods than Greece because of the WHG admixture...while in Greece it seems absent.Greece was also more affected from CHG/Iran N components.But with the Greek colonization in South Italy their genetics will receive an east med profile and since then until the middle ages(before the barbarian invasions) their genetics would have been quite similar and very close to the 'Rome Imperial' samples we have in G25.

XXD
02-20-2021, 03:59 PM
But wasn't there an Olalde et al. study that suggested that the indigenous Siceliot population had gone extinct some time after the Greek colonisation? And that they do not seem to contribute to the modern Sicilian population?

Im outside now but I can find the reference later.

Johnny ola
02-20-2021, 04:13 PM
But wasn't there an Olalde et al. study that suggested that the indigenous Siceliot population had gone extinct some time after the Greek colonisation? And that they do not seem to contribute to the modern Sicilian population?

Im outside now but I can find the reference later.

This is exactly what i mention above.That South Italy started EEF and ended up 'east med' like.South Italy/Sicily are genetically close with Greek islanders(dodecannese/crete) and Western Jews.

peloponnesian
02-20-2021, 07:32 PM
I'm reading up on the West Mediterranean paper and it's like Johnny says. Apparently it was discussed a lot here but I wasn't aware it was point of contention heh. Some of the fights in these forums are weird.

Johnny ola
02-20-2021, 07:47 PM
Went through my matches again and annotated everyone whose paternal origins are known. Here is some information I picked up about Haplogroups (removed duplicate surnames):


Kalymnians (59 Unique Surnames)

E
1 Total (~2%)
1x E-L791

G1
19 Total (32%)
19x G-CTS11562

I2
8 Total (~14%)
4x I-S12195
2x I-M223
1x I-CTS5966
1x I-L699

J1
5 Total (~8%)
3x J-CTS5368
2x J-M267

J2a
13 Total (~22%)
8x J-L70
3x J-M67
1x J-M172
1x J-L26

J2b
1 Total (~2%)
1x J-L283

R1a
6 Total (~10%)
3x R-M417
2x R-Z93
1x R-CTS3402

R1b
6 Total (~10%)
2x R-P297
2x R-L23
1x R-U152
1x R-M167

---

Cretans (17 Unique Surnames)

J1
1 Total (~6%)
1x J-M267

J2a
10 Total (~58%)
4x J-M67
3x J-L26
2x J-L70
1x J-M92

I1
2 Total (~12%)
1x I-L205.1
1x I-BY332

I2
1 Total (~6%)
1x I-Z26381

R1a
1 Total (~6%)
1x R-M512

R1b
2 Total (~12%)
1x R-U152
1x R-L23

---

Italians (20 Unique Surnames)

C
1 Total (5%)
1x C-M130

E
5 Total (25%)
2x E-V13
1x E-M183
1x E-L677
1x E-M123

G
2 Total (10%)
1x G-Z31464
1x G-PF4202

I
1 Total (5%)
1x I-CTS10057

J2a
5 Total (25%)
2x J-M67
2x J-L70
1x J-L26

Q
1 Total (5%)
1x Q-Y2225

R1a
1 Total (5%)
1x R-Z93

R1b
4 Total (20%)
1x R-L51
1x R-U152
1x R-P25_1
1x R-L23

Obviously there is small sample size especially for the Cretans and Italians but the numbers are really interesting. Apparently 1/3 of people from Kalymnos share the same paternal haplogroup (G-CTS11562), so there must have been a major founder effect there. It would be interesting to know how long ago the common founder was, maybe it could provide some answers to the timing of certain population movements from Anatolia if that's where it originates. The mtDNA has a similar thing, with 2 major mtDNA haplogroups being shared by the majority of people. The most common one apparently being most common in East Asia (China, Japan, Korea, etc.). Yet autosomally East Eurasian admixture is nearly entirely absent and found in traces among a small amount.

That leaves me to wonder how much information haplogroups really provides about one's ancestry? Going back 10 generations, there are 1024 lines and inherited from them are only 2 haplogroups. Autosomal allows each line of ancestry to give a fair share of information so seems more important for working out one's own ancestral origin. That is, unless you somehow worked out all 1024 haplogroups of your 10th generation ancestors, then it might provide better information? But that's not feasible, I can only know my own haplogroup.

I would like to know more about the J1 lineages among Cretans and Greek islanders and if they are connected with their Levant DNA.

lacreme
02-21-2021, 11:06 AM
I was reading the thread about E-V13 in Greece and I stumbled upon a comment by Aspar mentioning that "in a MyHeritage test, there are still SNPs related to the Y chromosome found even if it's a female though these are so few that most of the time gives an A haplogroup..."
I'm currently trying to help the greek friend of mine gather and piece together whatever info he can about his unknown maternal grandfather. His mother took a MyHeritage test and after reading the exchange of posts in page 72 of the said thread between Aspar and Vasile (and realising that Vasile's female friend's father really had a E clade though a different subclade than her prediction) I ran her data through Morley's YDNA predictor.
I got the following results using the 2 different trees

43432
43433

What would be the most probable YDNA clade of her biological father ? A subclade of J (being a prediction on both trees ) , a different subclade of E, a subclade of R1b or could it be a completely different haplogroup altogether ?

Aspar
02-21-2021, 11:14 AM
I was reading the thread about E-V13 in Greece and I stumbled upon a comment by Aspar mentioning that "in a MyHeritage test, there are still SNPs related to the Y chromosome found even if it's a female though these are so few that most of the time gives an A haplogroup..."
I'm currently trying to help the greek friend of mine gather and piece together whatever info he can about his unknown maternal grandfather. His mother took a MyHeritage test and after reading the exchange of posts in page 72 of the said thread between Aspar and Vasile (and realising that Vasile's female friend's father really had a E clade though a different subclade than her prediction) I ran her data through Morley's YDNA predictor.
I got the following results using the 2 different trees

43432
43433

What would be the most probable YDNA clade of her biological father ? A subclade of J (being a prediction on both trees ) , a different subclade of E, a subclade of R1b or could it be a completely different haplogroup altogether ?

The guy with who I had conversation about MyHeritage mixed the raw data's. He had both his female friend and her father's raw data. E-CTS1273 returned only when he run her father's raw data. When you run a female's raw data through a web y-dna predictor such as Morley dna it can only return the most basic prediction such as A haplogroup because there a few SNPs related to the Y chromosome found even in a female's raw data.
Therefore if you're asking whether you can find out the y-dna of the father of your friends mother, I'm afraid you can't find more than A which is basically the same with knowing nothing!

lacreme
02-21-2021, 11:30 AM
The guy with who I had conversation about MyHeritage mixed the raw data's. He had both his female friend and her father's raw data. E-CTS1273 returned only when he run her father's raw data. When you run a female's raw data through a web y-dna predictor such as Morley dna it can only return the most basic prediction such as A haplogroup because there a few SNPs related to the Y chromosome found even in a female's raw data.
Therefore if you're asking whether you can find out the y-dna of the father of your friends mother, I'm afraid you can't find more than A which is basically the same with knowing nothing!

So even if in one of the 2 trees she got a generic J as the most probable haplogroup and there is a J prediction further down on the list in the other as well, it is as random and improbable as having an A prediction ?

Oh well :\

Thanks for your info !

dosas
02-21-2021, 08:41 PM
The old v1 Myheritage was better for gauging possible paternal haplogroup from female data.

I remember I ran my wife's file through it and it gave me some old R1b nomeclature from it.

Edit:

I re-run it and it still works (wife's Myheritage v1):

https://i.ibb.co/WpsW4YH/screencapture-ytree-morleydna-com-predict-1613939947468.png

Greekscholar
02-22-2021, 12:15 AM
If no one minds, can I ask a slightly different question?

This photo is the oldest one we have of Fourniotes. This is the colorized and enhanced version through MH. It brings out a lot of detail I never saw before. I have a list that names all these people (row #1 is the bottom row) and at least several are my direct ancestors. The notations on that page aren't my specific relationship to those people though. The picture first appeared in the Warren OH, Greek newspaper along with an article about Fourni. It was titled "Our Dear and Honorable Ancestors." My Papu obtained a copy from the Pan-Ikarian brotherhood of New York probably 60-70 years ago. I contacted this group and they had no knowledge of the photo or where it came from. My dad is pretty convinced, and I tend to agree, that the photo is from the late 19th century and is the important men of the island visiting somewhere else as emissaries. Fourni would have been Ottoman at this time, and likely answered to Patmos as its administrative center, but the picture may not have been taken there. I have two questions.

1. The older men are wearing distinct clothes. Leather vests that button-up it looks like to me with puffy pants and small caps. The younger men are clearly wearing contemporary clothes, button-up shirts and ties. One man is clearly a priest. Does anyone recognize any of these costumes as being unique to any island, or group of islands? Any cultural anthropologists or people interest in folk costume among us (Dosas :) ) see anything jump out? Many of these men would have been the children of the first people who resettled the island, perhaps moved there as children themselves.

2. There is a date, signature, and likely place the photo was taken in the bottom right. Hopefully the resolution stays high and it can be zoomed in. I see the date as 18__. I see 6 characters in the possible location, but can't make any of them out for certain. It looks almost like Σάμος but there are too many letters, I think. Any guesses?

Thank you all in advance.



https://imgur.com/EuxEkKe.jpg

https://imgur.com/iWxFEKV.jpg

or if you prefer the Greek spellings.

https://imgur.com/2MQFOfw.jpg

lacreme
02-22-2021, 08:52 AM
Can you share the original B/W photo ? There is some colour artifacting on top of the signature and the characters

Also, about the word right under the signature, it's either a personal name or a placename but I don't think it's the name of an island...I'm reading the last syllable as "-άς" or "-ός"

peloponnesian
02-22-2021, 12:09 PM
That signature looks like "ΚΑΡΔ....ΙΔΑ" or something like that..

I went to Ikaria last August, wish I had taken the trip to Fournoi! From what I hear from the Ikariote friends who hosted us a lot of people from your islands went to America.

Greekscholar
02-22-2021, 02:45 PM
Here is the black and white scan. Thanks for looking it over everyone. Yes, lots of Fourniotes and Ikarians moved to American, especially Warren, Ohio and the area around Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh was a hot spot for Ikarians as well.



https://imgur.com/kvJCyKU.jpg

XXD
02-22-2021, 08:57 PM
Here is the black and white scan. Thanks for looking it over everyone. Yes, lots of Fourniotes and Ikarians moved to American, especially Warren, Ohio and the area around Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh was a hot spot for Ikarians as well.



https://imgur.com/kvJCyKU.jpg



Can you take a closeup pic of the signature? The ΚΑΡΔ... is almost certainly the name of the photographer or his workshop. The date is 189[?], so 1890's; at least this is what I see.

XXD
02-22-2021, 09:03 PM
I have been processing the pic on photoshop. The resolution is too low. Even a good mobile pic might work.

Greekscholar
02-22-2021, 09:07 PM
Here is colorized and enhanced
https://imgur.com/RT9KgAu.jpg

here is black and white
https://imgur.com/Hy0DTVv.jpg

Thanks for the help.

Greekscholar
02-22-2021, 09:11 PM
I have been processing the pic on photoshop. The resolution is too low. Even a good mobile pic might work.

Very unfortunate, but I do not think I have the original. I have looked everyone it should be, but it isn't there. I don't think I ever had it. I remember taking a scanner to my Yia Yia and Papu's house to digitize documents, and think this scan came from that visit. They have passed on now, and it is likely another family member ended up with the original, I don't think I would have taken it when they were living, hence why I brought the scanner.

XXD
02-22-2021, 09:34 PM
Here is colorized and enhanced
https://imgur.com/RT9KgAu.jpg

here is black and white
https://imgur.com/Hy0DTVv.jpg

Thanks for the help.

Still very difficult. The second name might be ΒΡΑΝΑΣ (a surname) or ΑΘΗΝΑΙ (Athens), with the first letter being written in a peculiar calligraphic style. I know, totally different words, but from the resolution it could be either. I am fairly confident about the date being 189[?].

Τhe first signature might be something like Καρδιακιδης, which is an existent surname.

If the pic is really important to you, I guess you should contact some of your relatives for the original.

XXD
02-22-2021, 09:40 PM
I have looked into calligraphy of the time, and I think that the second signature is indeed ΒΡΑΝΑΣ (Βρανάς), a surname.

The first signature is ΚΑΡΔΙΑΚΙΔ..(ΚΑΡΔΙΑΚΙΔΑΣ/ΚΑΡΔΙΑΚΙΔΗΣ). This is all I can say based on tracing each pixel in the photo.

XXD
02-22-2021, 09:45 PM
For what its worth, there was a famous Greek photographer with the surname Καρδιακίδης in Athens in the 1930's...(Γιώργος Καρδιακίδης, Πατησίων 5, ΑΘΗΝΑΙ).

Greekscholar
02-22-2021, 11:04 PM
For what its worth, there was a famous Greek photographer with the surname Καρδιακίδης in Athens in the 1930's...(Γιώργος Καρδιακίδης, Πατησίων 5, ΑΘΗΝΑΙ).

Thank you so much. Those are solid leads for me to follow up on. I had never considered Athens as these men would have been living in the Ottoman Empire, but as mentioned, I have never been able to track any one down who remembered where the picture came from originally so I guess every option is on the table.

Yes, the picture is very important. People in my family from both sides of the Atlantic know of it. My family tree only goes back one generation past these gentlemen, and that generation is the generation that repopulated the island (or so it is said, it could have been a bit earlier, but not by much.) I'll try to see if anyone ended up with the original. I was hoping it would come up in my stuff, but as mentioned earlier, I doubt I would have walked away with it, I brought the scanner to them.

lockdownboredom
02-23-2021, 01:09 AM
[QUOTE=lockdownboredom;746419]

Oh its your sisters ok.

Posters in this thread gave me the idea to run her data through MorleyDNA. This is the result.



Experimental tree:
https://i.ibb.co/1GXzyDX/ge.jpg

ISOGG tree:
https://i.ibb.co/LdzJVwD/ge2.jpg

Markos
02-23-2021, 01:37 PM
[QUOTE=Johnny ola;746439]

Posters in this thread gave me the idea to run her data through MorleyDNA. This is the result.



Experimental tree:
https://i.ibb.co/1GXzyDX/ge.jpg

ISOGG tree:
https://i.ibb.co/LdzJVwD/ge2.jpg


Is it the same as yours then?

J Man
02-23-2021, 02:27 PM
Went through my matches again and annotated everyone whose paternal origins are known. Here is some information I picked up about Haplogroups (removed duplicate surnames):


Kalymnians (59 Unique Surnames)

E
1 Total (~2%)
1x E-L791

G1
19 Total (32%)
19x G-CTS11562

I2
8 Total (~14%)
4x I-S12195
2x I-M223
1x I-CTS5966
1x I-L699

J1
5 Total (~8%)
3x J-CTS5368
2x J-M267

J2a
13 Total (~22%)
8x J-L70
3x J-M67
1x J-M172
1x J-L26

J2b
1 Total (~2%)
1x J-L283

R1a
6 Total (~10%)
3x R-M417
2x R-Z93
1x R-CTS3402

R1b
6 Total (~10%)
2x R-P297
2x R-L23
1x R-U152
1x R-M167

---

Cretans (17 Unique Surnames)

J1
1 Total (~6%)
1x J-M267

J2a
10 Total (~58%)
4x J-M67
3x J-L26
2x J-L70
1x J-M92

I1
2 Total (~12%)
1x I-L205.1
1x I-BY332

I2
1 Total (~6%)
1x I-Z26381

R1a
1 Total (~6%)
1x R-M512

R1b
2 Total (~12%)
1x R-U152
1x R-L23

---

Italians (20 Unique Surnames)

C
1 Total (5%)
1x C-M130

E
5 Total (25%)
2x E-V13
1x E-M183
1x E-L677
1x E-M123

G
2 Total (10%)
1x G-Z31464
1x G-PF4202

I
1 Total (5%)
1x I-CTS10057

J2a
5 Total (25%)
2x J-M67
2x J-L70
1x J-L26

Q
1 Total (5%)
1x Q-Y2225

R1a
1 Total (5%)
1x R-Z93

R1b
4 Total (20%)
1x R-L51
1x R-U152
1x R-P25_1
1x R-L23

Obviously there is small sample size especially for the Cretans and Italians but the numbers are really interesting. Apparently 1/3 of people from Kalymnos share the same paternal haplogroup (G-CTS11562), so there must have been a major founder effect there. It would be interesting to know how long ago the common founder was, maybe it could provide some answers to the timing of certain population movements from Anatolia if that's where it originates. The mtDNA has a similar thing, with 2 major mtDNA haplogroups being shared by the majority of people. The most common one apparently being most common in East Asia (China, Japan, Korea, etc.). Yet autosomally East Eurasian admixture is nearly entirely absent and found in traces among a small amount.

That leaves me to wonder how much information haplogroups really provides about one's ancestry? Going back 10 generations, there are 1024 lines and inherited from them are only 2 haplogroups. Autosomal allows each line of ancestry to give a fair share of information so seems more important for working out one's own ancestral origin. That is, unless you somehow worked out all 1024 haplogroups of your 10th generation ancestors, then it might provide better information? But that's not feasible, I can only know my own haplogroup.

Wow very cool! By chance do you know which parts of Crete your Cretan matches come from?

dosas
02-23-2021, 02:31 PM
Posters in this thread gave me the idea to run her data through MorleyDNA. This is the result.




Farmer stronk. (https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=49209)

23abc
02-23-2021, 05:28 PM
Wow very cool! By chance do you know which parts of Crete your Cretan matches come from?

Some of them specify more than just 'Crete' for grandparent location but most do not. But searching the names online they come from all over the island, Chania seems to be the most common overall though. One of the Cretans seems to be a famous politician which is interesting. A few of them are just paternally from Crete but others are seemingly 100% Cretan and I have no idea how I'm related to them.

I also never thought I had many Italian matches until I looked in detail through all matches. Many don't list their grandparents as coming from Italy but the surnames + autosomal (mostly Italian) speak for themselves. Most are 5th cousin level but appear to be real matches due to sharing segments with many of my cousin matches. Would be interesting to know how far back they are related but I don't think it is possible to know.

lockdownboredom
02-24-2021, 10:23 AM
[QUOTE=lockdownboredom;751869]

Is it the same as yours then?

Dunno, I haven't been tested.

Riverman
02-24-2021, 11:10 AM
Some of them specify more than just 'Crete' for grandparent location but most do not. But searching the names online they come from all over the island, Chania seems to be the most common overall though. One of the Cretans seems to be a famous politician which is interesting. A few of them are just paternally from Crete but others are seemingly 100% Cretan and I have no idea how I'm related to them.

I also never thought I had many Italian matches until I looked in detail through all matches. Many don't list their grandparents as coming from Italy but the surnames + autosomal (mostly Italian) speak for themselves. Most are 5th cousin level but appear to be real matches due to sharing segments with many of my cousin matches. Would be interesting to know how far back they are related but I don't think it is possible to know.

From which places in Italy are they from? Venetians?


Three more waves of colonists were sent, in 1222, 1233, and 1252, and immigration continued in a more irregular fashion in later years as well. In total, about 10,000 Venetians are estimated to have moved to Crete during the first century of Venetian rule—by comparison, Venice itself had a population of c. 60,000 at this period.[12] The colonization wave of 1252 also resulted in the establishment of Canea (modern Chania), on the site of the long abandoned ancient city of Kydonia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Candia

Do Venetian time colonists carry on Italian and Western European surnames? If they are descendants of colonists, this could be visible in the uniparentals too.

23abc
02-24-2021, 11:43 AM
From which places in Italy are they from? Venetians?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Candia

Most are Southern Italians, looking up surnames Calabria and Campania. Usually the common matches that are Italian are '4th cousins' to each-other and the Greeks that are common matches are '5th cousins'.

A smaller amount from more north, Tuscany and Emilia Romagna.



Do Venetian time colonists carry on Italian and Western European surnames? If they are descendants of colonists, this could be visible in the uniparentals too.

Actually I match one Greek whose paternal line originates in Venice, and settled in Zakynthos. And he still carries a non-Greek surname, Tzen, which comes from the Zen/Zeno family (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno_family). Haplogroup is R-CTS6889 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-S1161/).

Markos
02-24-2021, 03:49 PM
Dunno, I haven't been tested.

Could you walk me through how you did that? I wanna try for fun, lol.

lockdownboredom
02-24-2021, 09:48 PM
Could you walk me through how you did that? I wanna try for fun, lol.

No worries. Go to this link

https://ytree.morleydna.com/extractFromAutosomal

From there, scroll to the bottom and click the checkbox that reads "I consent to the processing and collection of my data, as described in the privacy policy". Once selected, it will allow you to upload your raw data.

When your data has been uploaded scroll to the bottom and click the submit button. You will then be redirected to a new page. Click the link named "Feed this data into the MorleyDNA.com Y-SNP Subclade Predictor" near the bottom of the page.

A new page will load featuring an input box that has all your converted data pre-loaded. Below that box are two select boxes, one on the left named "Data format" and one on the right named "Tree version". Ignore the data format box, selecting any other option other than the pre-selected option has no impact on the haplogroup result.

People who ran their data using the different tree versions have produced different results, unsure which one is meant to be more accurate. Try both tree versions (ISOGG and experimental).

Markos
02-25-2021, 12:00 AM
No worries. Go to this link

https://ytree.morleydna.com/extractFromAutosomal

From there, scroll to the bottom and click the checkbox that reads "I consent to the processing and collection of my data, as described in the privacy policy". Once selected, it will allow you to upload your raw data.

When your data has been uploaded scroll to the bottom and click the submit button. You will then be redirected to a new page. Click the link named "Feed this data into the MorleyDNA.com Y-SNP Subclade Predictor" near the bottom of the page.

A new page will load featuring an input box that has all your converted data pre-loaded. Below that box are two select boxes, one on the left named "Data format" and one on the right named "Tree version". Ignore the data format box, selecting any other option other than the pre-selected option has no impact on the haplogroup result.

People who ran their data using the different tree versions have produced different results, unsure which one is meant to be more accurate. Try both tree versions (ISOGG and experimental).

Is there any way to mess around with female raw data to show their potential paternal haplogroup or is that impossible?

losAntonis
02-25-2021, 12:22 AM
Is there any way to mess around with female raw data to show their potential paternal haplogroup or is that impossible?

No, definitely not.
You need a test of ond of her male relatives.

losAntonis
02-25-2021, 12:26 AM
Could you walk me through how you did that? I wanna try for fun, lol.


https://antoniosdnaproject.de/y-haplogroup-from-atdna-raw-data/

Greek:
https://antoniosdnaproject.de/y-%ce%b1%cf%80%ce%bb%ce%bf%ce%bf%ce%bc%ce%ac%ce%b4%c e%b1-%ce%b1%cf%80%cf%8c-%ce%b1%ce%ba%ce%b1%cf%84%ce%ad%cf%81%ce%b3%ce%b1%c f%83%cf%84%ce%b1-%ce%b4%ce%b5%ce%b4%ce%bf%ce%bc%ce%ad%ce%bd%ce%b1-atdna/

XXD
02-25-2021, 01:10 AM
So my paternal first cousin tested with 23and me, which provides a lot of insight on my father's genetic makeup (he is a Constantinopolitan, his DNA test is on the way).

My cousin is 50% Cretan (her mother) and 12.5% Nigde, 6.25% Chios, 6.25% Bursa, 12.5% Bebek and 12.5% Pergamon (through our grandparents).

None of our shared matches are Cretan. Our matches come from the following regions, which are informative on Constantinopolitan genetics:

Greek islands:

Andros (female)
Chios (2x E-M34)
Chios (female)
Chios (J1-CTS5368/Z2215)
Ikaria (J1-CTS5368/Z2215)
“Southern Aegean” (E-M78)
“Southern Aegean” (J2a-M410)
Cyprus (2 females)

Asia Minor:

“Turkey” (J1a-CTS5368/Z2215)
Smyrna/Izmir (3 females)

Mainland Greece:

“Athens” (J2a-L26)
Achaia (E-V13)
Messinia (G-M3302)
Epirus (female)
Agrinio (I2a-M223)
Ioannina (R1a-M512)
Volos (R1b-L52/P311)

So I'd say our Chian origin 5 generations ago is confirmed, plus a lot of other islander and Asia Minor ancestry. There are however a few Northern Greeks and Peloponnesians, which might represent mainland migration to Constantinople.

There are many more Greek DNA matches, but I have excluded them, as they have no information about their geographical origins, nor can I infer the latter based on their surname. Most have a large chunk of "West Asian", which is most common in Greeks with ancestry from the islands and Asia Minor.

Now our non Greek matches are quite interesting. They represent two distinct chunks (17 cM max) on chromosome 5 and 9 respectively. All individuals belong to the same segment of each chromosome, and they are partly or entirely overlapping:

Chromosome 5:

Italian, no location (E-V13)

Balkans:
Albania (J2b-L283)
Albania (J2a-L26)
Kosovo (J2b-L283)
Bulgaria (female)
Romania:
ethnic Roma, Valcea county (H-M52 )
"Romania" (E-V13)

So this segment likely indicates Albanian admixture. My cousin and I both score 0.2% South Asian, although on different chromosomes; this might indicate her SA comes from her mother. Interesting that some of our matches score low SA (as well as one ethnic Roma), although the Albanian and Bulgarian matches score zero SA, so I don't think I have Roma admixture from this source.


Chromosome 9:

Balkans:
Romania:
Târgu Jiu, one ancestor may have a Greek surname (R1b-CTS9219)
Suceava/Focsani (E-V13)
Suceava/Bucharest (female)
"Romania", 4% South Asian ( J2a-M67 )
Serbia/Bosnia (female)
Croatian (female)
Eastern Europe:
Slovakia (female)
Ukraine:
R1a-S24902 (0.4 South Asian)
Zakarpattia Oblast (1 female)
I2-S17250
R1b-L21 (1% South Asian)


This chromosome might indicate Slavic ancestry. My great grandmother was an Urum from Odessa. However, all of these Ukrainians score about 10% "Greek and Balkan", so I wonder if they have some Greek/Albanian/Vlach ancestry.


I have traced 55 of my paternal ancestors, going back to the last 250 years. None of them had mainland ancestors. It is clear that Constantinople Greeks are a mix of everything, with significant ancestry from Asia Minor, the islands, mainland Greece (both North and South), Arvanites, and perhaps even direct Slavic ancestry in case of Odessa Greeks.

My dad's results are going to be quite interesting. Apologies for the long post, I just have not seen many posts about Istanbul Greeks (they don't seem to test very much).

Markos
02-25-2021, 02:25 AM
So my paternal first cousin tested with 23and me.

What are his ancestry composition results?

XXD
02-25-2021, 02:46 AM
What are his ancestry composition results?

Her results are on the right, mine are on the left. She might get her G25 in the coming days.

43536

Markos
02-25-2021, 03:25 AM
Her results are on the right, mine are on the left. She might get her G25 in the coming days.

43536

Interested to see her regions once you guys are 'connected'.

J Man
02-25-2021, 02:40 PM
So my paternal first cousin tested with 23and me, which provides a lot of insight on my father's genetic makeup (he is a Constantinopolitan, his DNA test is on the way).

My cousin is 50% Cretan (her mother) and 12.5% Nigde, 6.25% Chios, 6.25% Bursa, 12.5% Bebek and 12.5% Pergamon (through our grandparents).

None of our shared matches are Cretan. Our matches come from the following regions, which are informative on Constantinopolitan genetics:

Greek islands:

Andros (female)
Chios (2x E-M34)
Chios (female)
Chios (J1-CTS5368/Z2215)
Ikaria (J1-CTS5368/Z2215)
“Southern Aegean” (E-M78)
“Southern Aegean” (J2a-M410)
Cyprus (2 females)

Asia Minor:

“Turkey” (J1a-CTS5368/Z2215)
Smyrna/Izmir (3 females)

Mainland Greece:

“Athens” (J2a-L26)
Achaia (E-V13)
Messinia (G-M3302)
Epirus (female)
Agrinio (I2a-M223)
Ioannina (R1a-M512)
Volos (R1b-L52/P311)

So I'd say our Chian origin 5 generations ago is confirmed, plus a lot of other islander and Asia Minor ancestry. There are however a few Northern Greeks and Peloponnesians, which might represent mainland migration to Constantinople.

There are many more Greek DNA matches, but I have excluded them, as they have no information about their geographical origins, nor can I infer the latter based on their surname. Most have a large chunk of "West Asian", which is most common in Greeks with ancestry from the islands and Asia Minor.

Now our non Greek matches are quite interesting. They represent two distinct chunks (17 cM max) on chromosome 5 and 9 respectively. All individuals belong to the same segment of each chromosome, and they are partly or entirely overlapping:

Chromosome 5:

Italian, no location (E-V13)

Balkans:
Albania (J2b-L283)
Albania (J2a-L26)
Kosovo (J2b-L283)
Bulgaria (female)
Romania:
ethnic Roma, Valcea county (H-M52 )
"Romania" (E-V13)

So this segment likely indicates Albanian admixture. My cousin and I both score 0.2% South Asian, although on different chromosomes; this might indicate her SA comes from her mother. Interesting that some of our matches score low SA (as well as one ethnic Roma), although the Albanian and Bulgarian matches score zero SA, so I don't think I have Roma admixture from this source.


Chromosome 9:

Balkans:
Romania:
Târgu Jiu, one ancestor may have a Greek surname (R1b-CTS9219)
Suceava/Focsani (E-V13)
Suceava/Bucharest (female)
"Romania", 4% South Asian ( J2a-M67 )
Serbia/Bosnia (female)
Croatian (female)
Eastern Europe:
Slovakia (female)
Ukraine:
R1a-S24902 (0.4 South Asian)
Zakarpattia Oblast (1 female)
I2-S17250
R1b-L21 (1% South Asian)


This chromosome might indicate Slavic ancestry. My great grandmother was an Urum from Odessa. However, all of these Ukrainians score about 10% "Greek and Balkan", so I wonder if they have some Greek/Albanian/Vlach ancestry.


I have traced 55 of my paternal ancestors, going back to the last 250 years. None of them had mainland ancestors. It is clear that Constantinople Greeks are a mix of everything, with significant ancestry from Asia Minor, the islands, mainland Greece (both North and South), Arvanites, and perhaps even direct Slavic ancestry in case of Odessa Greeks.

My dad's results are going to be quite interesting. Apologies for the long post, I just have not seen many posts about Istanbul Greeks (they don't seem to test very much).

Cool results and matches...Do you have any matches with Maniots?

dosas
02-25-2021, 06:26 PM
Inspired by XDD's post, I did a CHR. run on the PRO version of Admix. Studio.

The calculator was Eurogenes K10 (the latest, with the highest SNP count) and the raw file I used was from the WGS extraction tool.

I included only the Single pop. + Mixed mode oracles to avoid the giant wall of text (it's already large so here's your warning).





----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 1 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 62.11% Turkish_Deliorman + 37.89% Lebanese_Christian @ 1.305
2 89.45% Crete + 10.55% Chuvash @ 1.352
3 89.45% Crete + 10.55% North_Russian @ 1.361
4 88.67% Crete + 11.33% Mordvin @ 1.370
5 61.33% Syria + 38.67% GermanA @ 1.414
6 87.89% Crete + 12.11% Udmurd @ 1.458
7 50.39% Romania_Moldova + 49.61% Syria @ 1.478
8 50.39% Syria + 49.61% Romania_Moldova @ 1.484
9 53.52% Lebanese_Christian + 46.48% Moldova_Centre @ 1.497
10 52.73% Syria + 47.27% Moldova_Centre @ 1.507

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 4.082
2 100% GreecePhokaia @ 4.430
3 100% Romanian_Jew @ 4.540
4 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 4.857
5 100% Crete @ 5.450
6 100% Ashkenazy @ 5.723
7 100% GreecePelopenese @ 6.143
8 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 6.740
9 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 7.040
10 100% GreeceCentral @ 7.132

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 1 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 59.77% GreecePelopenese + 40.23% Chechen @ 2.027
2 63.67% GreeceMacedonia + 36.33% Chechen @ 2.182
3 59.77% GreeceCentral + 40.23% Chechen @ 2.218
4 69.92% GreeceMacedonia + 30.08% North_Ossetian @ 2.244
5 66.02% Romanian_Jew + 33.98% Lezgin @ 2.304
6 66.02% GreecePelopenese + 33.98% Adygei @ 2.328
7 51.95% Moldova_South + 48.05% ossetian @ 2.343
8 50.39% ossetian + 49.61% Moldova_South @ 2.343
9 68.36% GreeceMacedonia + 31.64% ossetian @ 2.361
10 73.83% Turkish_Deliorman + 26.17% Abhkasian @ 2.382

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 9.072
2 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 9.180
3 100% Turkish_Ege @ 9.870
4 100% GreecePhokaia @ 10.570
5 100% Crete @ 10.607
6 100% tabassaran @ 10.777
7 100% Azer_Dagestan @ 11.014
8 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 11.554
9 100% Nogay @ 11.582
10 100% GreeceKos @ 11.671

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 3 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 53.52% Georgian_Laz + 46.48% SouthFrench @ 1.378
2 68.36% Tuscan + 31.64% Adygei @ 1.404
3 51.95% Armenia + 48.05% Belgian @ 1.455
4 62.89% Tuscan + 37.11% ossetian @ 1.692
5 58.20% Armenia + 41.80% UKIrish @ 1.713
6 74.61% Italian + 25.39% Lezgin @ 1.725
7 55.86% Turkish_Trabzon + 44.14% French @ 1.781
8 56.64% Turkish_Trabzon + 43.36% Belgian @ 1.793
9 62.89% Turkish_Trabzon + 37.11% UKIrish @ 1.822
10 56.64% Turkish_Trabzon + 43.36% SouthFrench @ 1.862

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% GreecePhokaia @ 6.000
2 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 6.677
3 100% Italian_South_Salern @ 7.082
4 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 7.562
5 100% West-Sicily @ 7.774
6 100% Agrigento-Sicily @ 7.835
7 100% Romanian_Jew @ 8.240
8 100% GreeceCentral @ 8.305
9 100% Greek @ 8.494
10 100% ItalyAbruzzo @ 8.598

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 3 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 4 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 67.58% Moldova_South_Gagauz + 32.42% Abhkasian @ 0.794
2 67.58% Gagauz + 32.42% Abhkasian @ 0.795
3 57.42% Georgian_Laz + 42.58% Croat @ 0.970
4 56.64% Georgian_Laz + 43.36% Serbian_Bosnia @ 1.003
5 58.98% Georgian_Laz + 41.02% Slovenian @ 1.009
6 60.55% Georgian_Laz + 39.45% Hungary @ 1.060
7 58.98% GreeceNE + 41.02% Adygei @ 1.073
8 59.77% GreecePelopenese + 40.23% Adygei @ 1.080
9 66.80% Moldova_South + 33.20% Abhkasian @ 1.121
10 56.64% Georgian_Laz + 43.36% Croat_Bosnia @ 1.134

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 9.060
2 100% Turkish_Ege @ 9.750
3 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 10.368
4 100% Crete @ 10.827
5 100% Azer_Dagestan @ 11.012
6 100% tabassaran @ 11.073
7 100% Kabardin @ 11.247
8 100% Greek @ 11.284
9 100% Nogay @ 11.656
10 100% GreeceKos @ 11.891

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 4 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 5 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 74.61% Georgian_Imereti + 25.39% Basque1 @ 2.031
2 68.36% Georgian_Imereti + 31.64% Spanish @ 2.762
3 66.80% Georgian_Imereti + 33.20% Portugese @ 2.796
4 75.39% Georgian_Laz + 24.61% Basque1 @ 3.044
5 57.42% Tuscan + 42.58% Georgian @ 3.344
6 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% Tuscan @ 3.414
7 63.67% Georgian_Imereti + 36.33% Italian_North @ 3.495
8 53.52% Georgian + 46.48% Portugese @ 3.540
9 54.30% Abhkasian + 45.70% Italian_North @ 3.667
10 55.08% Italian_North + 44.92% Georgian @ 3.781

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 11.580
2 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 12.070
3 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 12.850
4 100% Turkish_Ege @ 13.780
5 100% Armenia @ 14.611
6 100% GreeceKos @ 15.331
7 100% Georgian_Laz @ 15.620
8 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 16.060
9 100% Azeri @ 16.680
10 100% Crete @ 16.901

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 5 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 6 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 62.11% Cyprus + 37.89% RussianOrjol @ 0.773
2 59.77% Cyprus + 40.23% Ukrainian_Tsherkassy @ 0.789
3 62.11% Cyprus + 37.89% RussianKursk @ 0.810
4 61.33% Cyprus + 38.67% RussianVoronez @ 0.881
5 66.80% Cyprus + 33.20% Estonian @ 0.933
6 64.45% Cyprus + 35.55% Russia_Tver @ 0.956
7 51.17% Romania_Bukovina + 48.83% Cyprus @ 1.003
8 76.17% GreeceKos + 23.83% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 1.007
9 50.39% Cyprus + 49.61% Romania_Bukovina @ 1.013
10 82.42% Crete + 17.58% Ukraine @ 1.022

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 3.389
2 100% GreecePhokaia @ 3.710
3 100% GreecePelopenese @ 3.893
4 100% Romanian_Jew @ 4.137
5 100% GreeceCentral @ 4.882
6 100% GreeceNE @ 5.001
7 100% Albanian @ 5.382
8 100% GreeceThessaly @ 5.530
9 100% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 5.764
10 100% Ashkenazy @ 5.948

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 6 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 7 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 81.64% Ashkenazy + 18.36% Assyrian @ 0.537
2 72.27% Syria + 27.73% Irish @ 0.641
3 72.27% Syria + 27.73% British @ 0.641
4 71.48% Syria + 28.52% UKIrish @ 0.658
5 91.02% FranceJew + 8.98% Lezgin @ 0.679
6 86.33% Sephardic_Bulgaria + 13.67% tabassaran @ 0.685
7 86.33% FranceJew + 13.67% Kabardin @ 0.725
8 88.67% FranceJew + 11.33% tabassaran @ 0.730
9 88.67% Sephardic_Bulgaria + 11.33% Lezgin @ 0.736
10 76.95% Central-Sicily + 23.05% Azeri_Jew @ 0.738

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Crete @ 2.019
2 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 3.102
3 100% FranceJew @ 3.463
4 100% ItalyJew @ 4.065
5 100% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 4.066
6 100% GreeceKos @ 4.270
7 100% Sephardic_Turkey @ 4.298
8 100% Greek @ 4.709
9 100% Italian_South_Salern @ 5.250
10 100% Central-Sicily @ 5.415

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 7 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 8 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 69.92% Assyrian + 30.08% GreeceMacedonia @ 2.086
2 78.52% Assyrian + 21.48% Moldova_South @ 2.220
3 75.39% Assyrian + 24.61% Albanian @ 2.238
4 79.30% Assyrian + 20.70% Bulgarian @ 2.258
5 80.86% Assyrian + 19.14% Romania_Bukovina @ 2.271
6 76.95% Assyrian + 23.05% Gagauz @ 2.273
7 58.98% Armenia + 41.02% Crete @ 2.273
8 79.30% Assyrian + 20.70% Macedonian @ 2.274
9 76.95% Assyrian + 23.05% Moldova_South_Gagauz @ 2.274
10 80.08% Assyrian + 19.92% Montenegro @ 2.278

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Azeri_Jew @ 5.170
2 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 5.790
3 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 6.650
4 100% IranJew @ 6.998
5 100% Syria @ 7.397
6 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 7.880
7 100% Azeri @ 8.214
8 100% Kurd @ 8.920
9 100% Assyrian @ 9.133
10 100% Armenia @ 10.183

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 8 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 9 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 86.33% East-Sicily18 + 13.67% Iranian_Bandari @ 1.526
2 56.64% Iraqi + 43.36% Cornwall @ 1.713
3 91.80% East-Sicily18 + 8.20% Pathan @ 1.886
4 91.80% East-Sicily18 + 8.20% PakistanJatt @ 1.938
5 91.80% East-Sicily18 + 8.20% Pakistan @ 2.028
6 62.11% Iraqi + 37.89% English_Kent @ 2.080
7 81.64% East-Sicily18 + 18.36% Iranian_Persian @ 2.192
8 83.20% East-Sicily18 + 16.80% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 2.256
9 88.67% East-Sicily18 + 11.33% Tadjik @ 2.434
10 59.77% Iraqi + 40.23% UKIrish @ 2.454

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% FranceJew @ 4.290
2 100% Ashkenazy @ 4.327
3 100% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 4.613
4 100% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 4.698
5 100% Romanian_Jew @ 4.757
6 100% GreecePhokaia @ 4.870
7 100% East-Sicily18 @ 4.900
8 100% Central-Sicily @ 4.900
9 100% Italian_South_Salern @ 5.260
10 100% ItalyJew @ 5.536

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 9 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 10 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 82.42% Cyprus + 17.58% Abhkasian @ 2.210
2 73.05% Cyprus + 26.95% Georgian_Imereti @ 2.302
3 58.20% Cyprus + 41.80% Armenia @ 2.319
4 86.33% Cyprus + 13.67% Georgian @ 2.329
5 80.08% Cyprus + 19.92% Georgian_Laz @ 2.329
6 72.27% Cyprus + 27.73% Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.465
7 71.48% Cyprus + 28.52% Iran @ 2.529
8 88.67% Cyprus + 11.33% North_Ossetian @ 2.615
9 78.52% Cyprus + 21.48% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 2.678
10 77.73% Cyprus + 22.27% Kurd @ 2.810

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Syria @ 5.717
2 100% Cyprus @ 6.185
3 100% Lebanese_Christian @ 6.546
4 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 7.466
5 100% Azeri_Jew @ 8.328
6 100% Lebanon @ 9.079
7 100% Assyrian @ 9.100
8 100% IranJew @ 9.370
9 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 9.530
10 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 9.600

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 10 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 11 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 55.86% Romania_Moldova + 44.14% IranJew @ 0.996
2 62.11% Bulgarian + 37.89% IranJew @ 1.166
3 59.77% Romania + 40.23% IranJew @ 1.328
4 68.36% Moldova_South_Gagauz + 31.64% IranJew @ 1.379
5 68.36% Gagauz + 31.64% IranJew @ 1.381
6 55.86% IranJew + 44.14% Hungary @ 1.399
7 65.23% Moldova_South + 34.77% IranJew @ 1.405
8 50.39% Serbian_Bosnia + 49.61% IranJew @ 1.471
9 54.30% Serbian + 45.70% IranJew @ 1.492
10 54.30% Romania_Bukovina + 45.70% IranJew @ 1.507

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 3.901
2 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 5.560
3 100% GreecePhokaia @ 6.070
4 100% Romanian_Jew @ 6.180
5 100% Turkish_Deliorman @ 7.350
6 100% Ashkenazy @ 7.738
7 100% GreecePelopenese @ 7.783
8 100% Moldova_South_Gagauz @ 8.110
9 100% Gagauz @ 8.113
10 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 8.358

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 11 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 12 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 67.58% Georgian_Laz + 32.42% Tatar_Kryashen @ 1.874
2 66.80% Georgian_Laz + 33.20% Tatar-Mishar @ 2.002
3 74.61% Georgian_Laz + 25.39% Saami_WGA @ 2.106
4 73.05% Georgian_Laz + 26.95% Komi @ 2.204
5 68.36% Georgian_Laz + 31.64% Tatar_Volga @ 2.270
6 71.48% Georgian_Laz + 28.52% RussianPinega @ 2.276
7 65.23% Turkish_Rumeli + 34.77% Abhkasian @ 2.351
8 67.58% Kabardin + 32.42% GreecePhokaia @ 2.457
9 68.36% Kabardin + 31.64% GreeceCentral @ 2.507
10 69.92% Kabardin + 30.08% ItalyAbruzzo @ 2.512

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Azer_Dagestan @ 7.642
2 100% Kabardin @ 7.897
3 100% Turkish_Ege @ 9.490
4 100% tabassaran @ 9.973
5 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 10.880
6 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 11.580
7 100% GreeceKos @ 11.639
8 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 11.770
9 100% Kumyk @ 11.795
10 100% Azeri @ 12.086

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 12 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 13 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 82.42% Georgian_Laz + 17.58% Spanish @ 1.564
2 77.73% Georgian_Laz + 22.27% Canary_Islander @ 1.582
3 77.73% Georgian_Laz + 22.27% Italian_North @ 1.588
4 82.42% Georgian_Laz + 17.58% Portugese @ 1.595
5 66.02% Georgian_Laz + 33.98% Sicilian_Trapani @ 1.604
6 72.27% Georgian_Laz + 27.73% Italian @ 1.618
7 76.17% Georgian_Laz + 23.83% Tuscan @ 1.637
8 59.77% Greek + 40.23% Abhkasian @ 1.638
9 62.89% Georgian_Laz + 37.11% Italian_South_Salern @ 1.646
10 57.42% Agrigento-Sicily + 42.58% Abhkasian @ 1.703

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 6.030
2 100% Armenia @ 7.791
3 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 8.380
4 100% Azeri @ 9.860
5 100% Azeri_Jew @ 9.913
6 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 10.810
7 100% ossetian @ 11.103
8 100% IranJew @ 11.543
9 100% Georgian_Laz @ 11.838
10 100% Balkar @ 11.898

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 13 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 14 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 56.64% tabassaran + 43.36% Portugese @ 2.396
2 54.30% Portugese + 45.70% Lezgin @ 2.472
3 51.95% Portugese + 48.05% Adygei @ 2.503
4 50.39% Portugese + 49.61% Chechen @ 2.524
5 50.39% Lezgin + 49.61% Portugese @ 2.535
6 50.39% Adygei + 49.61% Portugese @ 2.567
7 53.52% tabassaran + 46.48% Canary_Islander @ 2.613
8 56.64% tabassaran + 43.36% Spanish @ 2.675
9 55.86% Canary_Islander + 44.14% Lezgin @ 2.738
10 50.39% Chechen + 49.61% Portugese @ 2.739

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 9.050
2 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 9.360
3 100% Albanian @ 10.378
4 100% Turkish_Deliorman @ 11.130
5 100% Turkish_Ege @ 11.500
6 100% Kosovo_Albanian @ 11.567
7 100% GreeceThessaly @ 11.597
8 100% GreeceNE @ 11.682
9 100% Gagauz @ 11.747
10 100% Moldova_South_Gagauz @ 11.750

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 14 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 15 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 67.58% Macedonian + 32.42% Syria @ 1.197
2 69.92% Romania_Muntenia + 30.08% Syria @ 1.224
3 91.02% GreeceMacedonia + 8.98% Canary_Islander @ 1.249
4 73.83% Moldova_South + 26.17% Syria @ 1.266
5 76.17% Moldova_South_Gagauz + 23.83% Syria @ 1.279
6 76.17% Gagauz + 23.83% Syria @ 1.279
7 62.11% Crete + 37.89% Moldova_North @ 1.279
8 56.64% GreeceKos + 43.36% Moldova_North @ 1.281
9 64.45% Montenegro + 35.55% Syria @ 1.288
10 66.80% Romania_Muntenia + 33.20% Lebanese_Muslim @ 1.295

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 2.356
2 100% GreecePelopenese @ 3.253
3 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 4.170
4 100% GreeceCentral @ 4.242
5 100% GreeceNE @ 4.361
6 100% Albanian @ 4.450
7 100% GreeceThessaly @ 4.890
8 100% GreecePhokaia @ 5.330
9 100% Romanian_Jew @ 5.757
10 100% Kosovo_Albanian @ 5.763

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 15 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 16 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 83.20% Azer_Dagestan + 16.80% Spanish @ 2.231
2 73.83% Kurd + 26.17% Dutch @ 2.236
3 76.17% Kurd + 23.83% Iceland @ 2.239
4 71.48% Azer_Dagestan + 28.52% Italian_North @ 2.242
5 76.17% Kurd + 23.83% Irish @ 2.250
6 75.39% Kurd + 24.61% British @ 2.250
7 76.95% Kurd + 23.05% Cornwall @ 2.253
8 76.95% Kurd + 23.05% SW_Scot @ 2.253
9 76.95% Kurd + 23.05% English_Kent @ 2.253
10 75.39% Kurd + 24.61% UKIrish @ 2.257

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 6.980
2 100% Azeri @ 7.100
3 100% Turkish_Ege @ 7.540
4 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 7.630
5 100% Yagnobi @ 9.158
6 100% Azer_Dagestan @ 9.342
7 100% tabassaran @ 9.610
8 100% Iranian_Lor @ 9.668
9 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 9.820
10 100% Kabardin @ 9.847

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 16 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 17 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 54.30% Agrigento-Sicily + 45.70% Balkar @ 2.076
2 54.30% West-Sicily + 45.70% Balkar @ 2.077
3 55.08% Italian + 44.92% Balkar @ 2.079
4 55.86% Central-Sicily + 44.14% Balkar @ 2.120
5 52.73% Italian_South_Salern + 47.27% ossetian @ 2.120
6 50.39% Italian + 49.61% ossetian @ 2.126
7 50.39% ossetian + 49.61% Italian @ 2.131
8 55.86% Greek + 44.14% Balkar @ 2.135
9 50.39% Agrigento-Sicily + 49.61% ossetian @ 2.153
10 52.73% Kabardin + 47.27% Italian @ 2.161

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Ege @ 6.700
2 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 7.090
3 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 7.580
4 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 7.870
5 100% GreeceKos @ 8.281
6 100% Crete @ 8.711
7 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 9.818
8 100% Azeri_Jew @ 9.953
9 100% Greek @ 10.734
10 100% GreecePhokaia @ 11.410

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 17 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 18 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 50.39% Italian_North + 49.61% Syria @ 1.107
2 50.39% Syria + 49.61% Italian_North @ 1.246
3 68.36% Syria + 31.64% Basque1 @ 1.279
4 73.83% Sicilian_Trapani + 26.17% Cyprus @ 1.735
5 50.39% Portugese + 49.61% Assyrian @ 1.739
6 50.39% Assyrian + 49.61% Portugese @ 1.756
7 91.02% Greek + 8.98% Mozabite @ 1.871
8 86.33% Agrigento-Sicily + 13.67% Cyprus @ 1.917
9 74.61% Italian + 25.39% IranJew @ 1.997
10 73.05% Italian + 26.95% Azeri_Jew @ 2.004

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Greek @ 3.130
2 100% Agrigento-Sicily @ 3.845
3 100% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 3.908
4 100% West-Sicily @ 4.258
5 100% FranceJew @ 4.330
6 100% Central-Sicily @ 4.940
7 100% ItalyJew @ 4.968
8 100% Italian_South_Salern @ 5.132
9 100% Italian @ 5.511
10 100% AlgeriaJew @ 5.836

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 18 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 19 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 84.77% Serbian_Bosnia + 15.23% Yemen_Jewish @ 1.488
2 60.55% East-Sicily18 + 39.45% UkrainePol @ 1.508
3 84.77% Bosnian + 15.23% Yemen_Jewish @ 1.510
4 83.98% Croat_Bosnia + 16.02% Yemen_Jewish @ 1.560
5 85.55% Moldova_Centre + 14.45% Yemen_Jewish @ 1.820
6 64.45% East-Sicily18 + 35.55% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.834
7 82.42% Croat + 17.58% Yemen_Jewish @ 1.863
8 63.67% East-Sicily18 + 36.33% Ukraine @ 1.900
9 88.67% Romania_Moldova + 11.33% Yemen @ 1.910
10 66.02% East-Sicily18 + 33.98% Belarusian @ 1.923

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Moldova_South @ 6.040
2 100% Bulgarian @ 6.110
3 100% Moldova_South_Gagauz @ 6.530
4 100% Gagauz @ 6.533
5 100% Romania_Oltenia @ 7.160
6 100% Romania_Muntenia @ 7.190
7 100% Romania @ 7.430
8 100% Romania_Transylvania @ 7.530
9 100% Macedonian @ 7.652
10 100% Turkish_Deliorman @ 7.790

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 19 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 20 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 73.83% Iranian_Lor + 26.17% North_Russian @ 5.438
2 79.30% Iranian_Persian + 20.70% North_Russian @ 6.105
3 76.95% Iranian_Lor + 23.05% Mordvin @ 6.209
4 80.08% Kurd + 19.92% North_Russian @ 6.596
5 78.52% Iranian_Persian + 21.48% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 6.681
6 76.17% Iran + 23.83% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 6.762
7 77.73% Iran + 22.27% North_Russian @ 6.772
8 78.52% Iranian_Persian + 21.48% Mordvin @ 6.790
9 78.52% Iranian_Persian + 21.48% UkrainePol @ 6.864
10 79.30% Kurd + 20.70% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 6.989

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Ege @ 14.200
2 100% UZB_Turkmen @ 14.323
3 100% Azer_Dagestan @ 14.654
4 100% Kabardin @ 16.277
5 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 16.830
6 100% Turkmen @ 16.858
7 100% Kumyk @ 17.182
8 100% Yagnobi @ 17.471
9 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 17.650
10 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 18.350

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 20 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 21 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 52.73% Italian + 47.27% North_Ossetian @ 6.742
2 62.11% Agrigento-Sicily + 37.89% North_Ossetian @ 7.278
3 60.55% Abhkasian + 39.45% Spanish @ 7.313
4 51.17% Balkar + 48.83% Italian @ 7.329
5 62.89% West-Sicily + 37.11% North_Ossetian @ 7.347
6 52.73% Abhkasian + 47.27% Canary_Islander @ 7.371
7 53.52% Abhkasian + 46.48% Italian_North @ 7.379
8 50.39% Italian + 49.61% Balkar @ 7.383
9 59.77% Abhkasian + 40.23% Portugese @ 7.387
10 50.39% Italian_North + 49.61% Abhkasian @ 7.398

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 11.810
2 100% Turkish_Ege @ 13.520
3 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 13.910
4 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 14.400
5 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 15.180
6 100% GreecePhokaia @ 15.350
7 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 15.852
8 100% Greek @ 16.784
9 100% Armenia @ 17.193
10 100% Crete @ 17.387

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 21 -----


----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 22 -----

Mixed Mode:
1 98.83% GreeceMacedonia + 1.17% ossetian @ 0.778
2 98.83% GreeceMacedonia + 1.17% Georgian_Imereti @ 0.779
3 98.83% GreeceMacedonia + 1.17% Balkar @ 0.788
4 98.83% GreeceMacedonia + 1.17% Georgian_Laz @ 0.789
5 98.83% GreeceMacedonia + 1.17% Kabardin @ 0.801
6 98.83% GreeceMacedonia + 1.17% North_Ossetian @ 0.812
7 98.83% GreeceMacedonia + 1.17% Kurd @ 0.813
8 98.83% GreeceMacedonia + 1.17% Nogay @ 0.814
9 98.83% GreeceMacedonia + 1.17% Azer_Dagestan @ 0.820
10 98.83% GreeceMacedonia + 1.17% tabassaran @ 0.823

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 1.084
2 100% GreeceCentral @ 4.415
3 100% GreecePhokaia @ 5.370
4 100% Romanian_Jew @ 5.797
5 100% GreecePelopenese @ 6.029
6 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 6.180
7 100% ItalyAbruzzo @ 6.628
8 100% GreeceNE @ 6.908
9 100% Albanian @ 7.060
10 100% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 7.424

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% GreeceMacedonia + 50% GreeceMacedonia @ 1.084
2 50% Assyrian + 50% GErmanB @ 1.795
3 50% German_IL + 50% Assyrian @ 1.812
4 50% Orcadian + 50% Assyrian @ 2.093
5 50% Austrian + 50% Assyrian @ 2.233
6 50% English + 50% Assyrian @ 2.402
7 50% North_European_CEU + 50% Assyrian @ 2.457
8 50% Montenegro + 50% Turkish_Anadolu @ 2.503
9 50% Gagauz + 50% GreeceKos @ 2.584
10 50% Moldova_South_Gagauz + 50% GreeceKos @ 2.585

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 22 -----





Commentary:

Nothing too extraordinary, the K10 doesn't have a Greek_Trabzon reference so Turkish_Trabzon/Assyrian/Armenian/Laz can be considered as a stand in, I guess. However, most of my Caucasian side seems to prefer Georgian/Ossetian, other North. Caucasians and even Azeri shifts.

Chr. 7 shifts to the Levant, and 9 seems to want to add a small amount of Pakistani, distant Roma ancestry, perhaps?

Chr. 12 clearly wants a Tatar/Turkic reference to get the fit.

All opinions/commentary welcome, just messing around and showcasing the feature (lockdown boredom).

XXD
02-26-2021, 12:15 AM
Cool results and matches...Do you have any matches with Maniots?

The man from Achaia (E-V13) has a clearly Maniot surname, although his genetics don't look that similar to most Maniots I've seen (like those from my mother's side Peloponnesian matches); he could have distant Maniot ancestry.

XXD
02-26-2021, 12:17 AM
Inspired by XDD's post, I did a CHR. run on the PRO version of Admix. Studio.

The calculator was Eurogenes K10 (the latest, with the highest SNP count) and the raw file I used was from the WGS extraction tool.

I included only the Single pop. + Mixed mode oracles to avoid the giant wall of text (it's already large so here's your warning).



Fascinating tool! I guess this is only possible with WGS data.

dosas
02-26-2021, 05:52 AM
Fascinating tool! I guess this is only possible with WGS data.

No, you can use it with any file. It is just that with the WSG file I can match the calculator SNPs around 99.99%.

dosas
02-26-2021, 09:23 AM
Continuing on with the chromosomal analysis, I put my parents' files through the grinder. Unfortunately, the files were 23ameV5, so the SNP coverage is rather poor (in the 30s%-40%s), however, the findings seem to be somewhat consistent. Warning wall of texts:

Grand - Mother (Trabzon):


[code]
----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 1 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 52.73% Cyprus + 47.27% IranJew @ 4.803
2 50.39% IranJew + 49.61% Cyprus @ 4.840
3 95.70% Lebanese_Christian + 4.30% Indian_S @ 5.111
4 95.70% Lebanese_Christian + 4.30% North_Kannadi @ 5.256
5 96.48% Lebanese_Christian + 3.52% Sakilli @ 5.297
6 70.70% Lebanese_Christian + 29.30% IranJew @ 5.299
7 94.92% Lebanese_Christian + 5.08% Indian @ 5.332
8 94.92% Lebanese_Christian + 5.08% Pakistan @ 5.354
9 85.55% Lebanese_Christian + 14.45% Iran @ 5.358
10 93.36% Lebanese_Christian + 6.64% Pathan @ 5.424

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Lebanese_Christian @ 6.592
2 100% Syria @ 7.424
3 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 8.617
4 100% Lebanon @ 8.993
5 100% Cyprus @ 9.851
6 100% IranJew @ 10.779
7 100% Jordanian @ 12.497
8 100% Azeri_Jew @ 12.594
9 100% Assyrian @ 15.945
10 100% GreeceKos @ 17.638

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Cyprus + 50% IranJew @ 4.832
2 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% IranJew @ 5.962
3 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% Syria @ 6.339
4 50% Syria + 50% Cyprus @ 6.350
5 50% Cyprus + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 6.454
6 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% Lebanese_Christian @ 6.592
7 50% Palestinian + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 6.708
8 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 6.979
9 50% Lebanese_Muslim + 50% Cyprus @ 7.057
10 50% Lebanon + 50% Cyprus @ 7.075

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 1 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 58.98% Italian + 41.02% Georgian @ 3.927
2 62.11% Agrigento-Sicily + 37.89% Georgian @ 4.723
3 59.77% Italian + 40.23% Abhkasian @ 4.894
4 62.11% West-Sicily + 37.89% Georgian @ 5.072
5 60.55% Sicilian_Trapani + 39.45% Georgian @ 5.100
6 62.89% Italian_South_Salern + 37.11% Georgian @ 5.424
7 62.11% Georgian_Imereti + 37.89% Italian_North @ 5.432
8 78.52% Georgian_Laz + 21.48% Basque1 @ 5.433
9 66.02% Greek + 33.98% Georgian @ 5.533
10 53.52% Georgian_Imereti + 46.48% Italian @ 5.671

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 13.938
2 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 14.967
3 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 15.673
4 100% Azeri @ 17.660
5 100% GreeceKos @ 18.617
6 100% Azeri_Jew @ 18.754
7 100% Turkish_Ege @ 18.980
8 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 19.830
9 100% Armenia @ 19.868
10 100% Georgian_Laz @ 20.293

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Italian @ 5.926
2 50% Tuscan + 50% Georgian @ 6.291
3 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Sicilian_Trapani @ 7.312
4 50% Agrigento-Sicily + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 7.331
5 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% West-Sicily @ 7.597
6 50% Tuscan + 50% Abhkasian @ 7.645
7 50% Italian + 50% Georgian @ 7.767
8 50% Italian_South_Salern + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 7.801
9 50% Italian_North + 50% Abhkasian @ 7.886
10 50% Greek + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 8.035

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 58.98% Italian + 41.02% Georgian @ 3.927
2 62.11% Agrigento-Sicily + 37.89% Georgian @ 4.723
3 59.77% Italian + 40.23% Abhkasian @ 4.894
4 62.11% West-Sicily + 37.89% Georgian @ 5.072
5 60.55% Sicilian_Trapani + 39.45% Georgian @ 5.100
6 62.89% Italian_South_Salern + 37.11% Georgian @ 5.424
7 62.11% Georgian_Imereti + 37.89% Italian_North @ 5.432
8 78.52% Georgian_Laz + 21.48% Basque1 @ 5.433
9 66.02% Greek + 33.98% Georgian @ 5.533
10 53.52% Georgian_Imereti + 46.48% Italian @ 5.671

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 13.938
2 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 14.967
3 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 15.673
4 100% Azeri @ 17.660
5 100% GreeceKos @ 18.617
6 100% Azeri_Jew @ 18.754
7 100% Turkish_Ege @ 18.980
8 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 19.830
9 100% Armenia @ 19.868
10 100% Georgian_Laz @ 20.293

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Italian @ 5.926
2 50% Tuscan + 50% Georgian @ 6.291
3 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Sicilian_Trapani @ 7.312
4 50% Agrigento-Sicily + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 7.331
5 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% West-Sicily @ 7.597
6 50% Tuscan + 50% Abhkasian @ 7.645
7 50% Italian + 50% Georgian @ 7.767
8 50% Italian_South_Salern + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 7.801
9 50% Italian_North + 50% Abhkasian @ 7.886
10 50% Greek + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 8.035

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 58.98% Italian + 41.02% Georgian @ 3.927
2 62.11% Agrigento-Sicily + 37.89% Georgian @ 4.723
3 59.77% Italian + 40.23% Abhkasian @ 4.894
4 62.11% West-Sicily + 37.89% Georgian @ 5.072
5 60.55% Sicilian_Trapani + 39.45% Georgian @ 5.100
6 62.89% Italian_South_Salern + 37.11% Georgian @ 5.424
7 62.11% Georgian_Imereti + 37.89% Italian_North @ 5.432
8 78.52% Georgian_Laz + 21.48% Basque1 @ 5.433
9 66.02% Greek + 33.98% Georgian @ 5.533
10 53.52% Georgian_Imereti + 46.48% Italian @ 5.671

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 13.938
2 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 14.967
3 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 15.673
4 100% Azeri @ 17.660
5 100% GreeceKos @ 18.617
6 100% Azeri_Jew @ 18.754
7 100% Turkish_Ege @ 18.980
8 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 19.830
9 100% Armenia @ 19.868
10 100% Georgian_Laz @ 20.293

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Italian @ 5.926
2 50% Tuscan + 50% Georgian @ 6.291
3 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Sicilian_Trapani @ 7.312
4 50% Agrigento-Sicily + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 7.331
5 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% West-Sicily @ 7.597
6 50% Tuscan + 50% Abhkasian @ 7.645
7 50% Italian + 50% Georgian @ 7.767
8 50% Italian_South_Salern + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 7.801
9 50% Italian_North + 50% Abhkasian @ 7.886
10 50% Greek + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 8.035

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 58.98% Italian + 41.02% Georgian @ 3.927
2 62.11% Agrigento-Sicily + 37.89% Georgian @ 4.723
3 59.77% Italian + 40.23% Abhkasian @ 4.894
4 62.11% West-Sicily + 37.89% Georgian @ 5.072
5 60.55% Sicilian_Trapani + 39.45% Georgian @ 5.100
6 62.89% Italian_South_Salern + 37.11% Georgian @ 5.424
7 62.11% Georgian_Imereti + 37.89% Italian_North @ 5.432
8 78.52% Georgian_Laz + 21.48% Basque1 @ 5.433
9 66.02% Greek + 33.98% Georgian @ 5.533
10 53.52% Georgian_Imereti + 46.48% Italian @ 5.671

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 13.938
2 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 14.967
3 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 15.673
4 100% Azeri @ 17.660
5 100% GreeceKos @ 18.617
6 100% Azeri_Jew @ 18.754
7 100% Turkish_Ege @ 18.980
8 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 19.830
9 100% Armenia @ 19.868
10 100% Georgian_Laz @ 20.293

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Italian @ 5.926
2 50% Tuscan + 50% Georgian @ 6.291
3 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Sicilian_Trapani @ 7.312
4 50% Agrigento-Sicily + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 7.331
5 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% West-Sicily @ 7.597
6 50% Tuscan + 50% Abhkasian @ 7.645
7 50% Italian + 50% Georgian @ 7.767
8 50% Italian_South_Salern + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 7.801
9 50% Italian_North + 50% Abhkasian @ 7.886
10 50% Greek + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 8.035

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 3 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 55.08% Cyprus + 44.92% Georgian @ 2.164
2 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% Cyprus @ 3.838
3 55.86% Cyprus + 44.14% Abhkasian @ 4.794
4 55.08% Lebanese_Christian + 44.92% Georgian @ 4.896
5 62.89% Georgian_Imereti + 37.11% Cyprus @ 5.787
6 52.73% Georgian + 47.27% LibyaJew @ 5.886
7 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.915
8 50.39% Abhkasian + 49.61% Cyprus @ 6.126
9 50.39% LibyaJew + 49.61% Georgian @ 6.183
10 59.77% Syria + 40.23% Georgian @ 6.723

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Armenia @ 8.564
2 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 9.872
3 100% Georgian_Laz @ 11.028
4 100% Assyrian @ 14.333
5 100% Georgian_Imereti @ 16.263
6 100% Azeri_Jew @ 17.026
7 100% Kurd @ 17.445
8 100% Azeri @ 19.753
9 100% Iran @ 20.265
10 100% IranJew @ 20.490

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Cyprus + 50% Georgian @ 3.649
2 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% Georgian @ 5.790
3 50% Cyprus + 50% Abhkasian @ 5.983
4 50% Georgian + 50% LibyaJew @ 6.107
5 50% Georgian + 50% Sephardic_Turkey @ 7.120
6 50% Lebanon + 50% Georgian @ 7.296
7 50% Georgian + 50% AlgeriaJew @ 7.341
8 50% Lebanese_Muslim + 50% Georgian @ 7.626
9 50% Georgian + 50% Jordanian @ 7.798
10 50% Georgian + 50% ItalyJew @ 7.894

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 3 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 4 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 50.39% Sephardic_Turkey + 49.61% Georgian @ 3.724
2 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% Sephardic_Turkey @ 3.725
3 64.45% Georgian_Imereti + 35.55% Cyprus @ 3.854
4 55.86% Cyprus + 44.14% Abhkasian @ 4.040
5 55.08% GreeceKos + 44.92% Georgian @ 4.056
6 51.95% Georgian + 48.05% ItalyJew @ 4.196
7 55.08% Cyprus + 44.92% Georgian @ 4.212
8 52.73% Georgian + 47.27% AlgeriaJew @ 4.289
9 50.39% ItalyJew + 49.61% Georgian @ 4.553
10 77.73% Georgian_Laz + 22.27% Cyprus @ 4.554

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 7.708
2 100% Armenia @ 8.611
3 100% Georgian_Laz @ 8.747
4 100% Assyrian @ 14.966
5 100% Georgian_Imereti @ 15.217
6 100% Kurd @ 15.231
7 100% Azeri_Jew @ 15.943
8 100% Azeri @ 17.599
9 100% ossetian @ 18.345
10 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 18.349

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Sephardic_Turkey + 50% Georgian @ 3.716
2 50% Georgian + 50% ItalyJew @ 4.455
3 50% Georgian + 50% AlgeriaJew @ 4.613
4 50% Georgian + 50% LibyaJew @ 4.710
5 50% Georgian + 50% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 4.946
6 50% GreeceKos + 50% Georgian @ 5.101
7 50% Georgian + 50% FranceJew @ 5.177
8 50% Cyprus + 50% Georgian @ 5.206
9 50% Cyprus + 50% Abhkasian @ 5.232
10 50% Sephardic_Turkey + 50% Abhkasian @ 5.727

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 4 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 5 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 78.52% Cyprus + 21.48% Pakistan @ 12.268
2 73.83% Cyprus + 26.17% Pathan @ 12.458
3 77.73% Cyprus + 22.27% PakistanJatt @ 12.475
4 80.86% Cyprus + 19.14% Indian @ 12.499
5 83.98% Cyprus + 16.02% Indian_S @ 12.577
6 83.98% Cyprus + 16.02% North_Kannadi @ 12.815
7 51.17% Iran + 48.83% Italian @ 13.336
8 50.39% Italian + 49.61% Iran @ 13.354
9 86.33% Cyprus + 13.67% Sakilli @ 13.369
10 75.39% Iran + 24.61% Basque1 @ 13.608

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 19.189
2 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 19.349
3 100% GreeceKos @ 19.797
4 100% Cyprus @ 20.183
5 100% IranJew @ 21.437
6 100% Azeri_Jew @ 21.471
7 100% Crete @ 21.519
8 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 21.555
9 100% Lebanese_Christian @ 21.576
10 100% Sephardic_Turkey @ 21.698

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Iran + 50% Italian @ 13.347
2 50% Italian + 50% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 14.272
3 50% Iranian_Lor + 50% Italian @ 14.294
4 50% Iranian_Persian + 50% Italian @ 14.398
5 50% Cyprus + 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 14.648
6 50% Italian + 50% Kurd @ 15.226
7 50% AlgeriaJew + 50% Iran @ 15.343
8 50% Agrigento-Sicily + 50% Iran @ 15.394
9 50% ItalyJew + 50% Iran @ 15.398
10 50% Italian + 50% Armenia @ 15.426

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 5 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 5 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 78.52% Cyprus + 21.48% Pakistan @ 12.268
2 73.83% Cyprus + 26.17% Pathan @ 12.458
3 77.73% Cyprus + 22.27% PakistanJatt @ 12.475
4 80.86% Cyprus + 19.14% Indian @ 12.499
5 83.98% Cyprus + 16.02% Indian_S @ 12.577
6 83.98% Cyprus + 16.02% North_Kannadi @ 12.815
7 51.17% Iran + 48.83% Italian @ 13.336
8 50.39% Italian + 49.61% Iran @ 13.354
9 86.33% Cyprus + 13.67% Sakilli @ 13.369
10 75.39% Iran + 24.61% Basque1 @ 13.608

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 19.189
2 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 19.349
3 100% GreeceKos @ 19.797
4 100% Cyprus @ 20.183
5 100% IranJew @ 21.437
6 100% Azeri_Jew @ 21.471
7 100% Crete @ 21.519
8 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 21.555
9 100% Lebanese_Christian @ 21.576
10 100% Sephardic_Turkey @ 21.698

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Iran + 50% Italian @ 13.347
2 50% Italian + 50% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 14.272
3 50% Iranian_Lor + 50% Italian @ 14.294
4 50% Iranian_Persian + 50% Italian @ 14.398
5 50% Cyprus + 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 14.648
6 50% Italian + 50% Kurd @ 15.226
7 50% AlgeriaJew + 50% Iran @ 15.343
8 50% Agrigento-Sicily + 50% Iran @ 15.394
9 50% ItalyJew + 50% Iran @ 15.398
10 50% Italian + 50% Armenia @ 15.426

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 5 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 5 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 78.52% Cyprus + 21.48% Pakistan @ 12.268
2 73.83% Cyprus + 26.17% Pathan @ 12.458
3 77.73% Cyprus + 22.27% PakistanJatt @ 12.475
4 80.86% Cyprus + 19.14% Indian @ 12.499
5 83.98% Cyprus + 16.02% Indian_S @ 12.577
6 83.98% Cyprus + 16.02% North_Kannadi @ 12.815
7 51.17% Iran + 48.83% Italian @ 13.336
8 50.39% Italian + 49.61% Iran @ 13.354
9 86.33% Cyprus + 13.67% Sakilli @ 13.369
10 75.39% Iran + 24.61% Basque1 @ 13.608

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 19.189
2 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 19.349
3 100% GreeceKos @ 19.797
4 100% Cyprus @ 20.183
5 100% IranJew @ 21.437
6 100% Azeri_Jew @ 21.471
7 100% Crete @ 21.519
8 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 21.555
9 100% Lebanese_Christian @ 21.576
10 100% Sephardic_Turkey @ 21.698

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Iran + 50% Italian @ 13.347
2 50% Italian + 50% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 14.272
3 50% Iranian_Lor + 50% Italian @ 14.294
4 50% Iranian_Persian + 50% Italian @ 14.398
5 50% Cyprus + 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 14.648
6 50% Italian + 50% Kurd @ 15.226
7 50% AlgeriaJew + 50% Iran @ 15.343
8 50% Agrigento-Sicily + 50% Iran @ 15.394
9 50% ItalyJew + 50% Iran @ 15.398
10 50% Italian + 50% Armenia @ 15.426

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 5 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 6 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 72.27% GreeceKos + 27.73% Abhkasian @ 1.848
2 53.52% Georgian_Laz + 46.48% Crete @ 1.955
3 64.45% Georgian_Laz + 35.55% East-Sicily18 @ 2.050
4 50.39% Georgian_Laz + 49.61% GreeceKos @ 2.156
5 50.39% GreeceKos + 49.61% Georgian_Laz @ 2.163
6 58.98% GreeceKos + 41.02% Georgian_Imereti @ 2.250
7 58.20% Georgian_Laz + 41.80% Greek @ 2.254
8 62.89% Georgian_Laz + 37.11% Central-Sicily @ 2.266
9 55.86% Georgian_Laz + 44.14% GreeceSmyrna @ 2.325
10 62.11% Georgian_Laz + 37.89% Agrigento-Sicily @ 2.376

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 8.767
2 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 9.443
3 100% Azeri_Jew @ 11.744
4 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 12.494
5 100% Azeri @ 12.499
6 100% Armenia @ 14.589
7 100% IranJew @ 14.605
8 100% Kurd @ 15.087
9 100% Assyrian @ 16.392
10 100% Georgian_Laz @ 16.508

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% GreeceKos @ 2.155
2 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Crete @ 2.304
3 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% GreeceSmyrna @ 3.148
4 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% FranceJew @ 3.503
5 50% Greek + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 3.510
6 50% Crete + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 3.575
7 50% GreeceSmyrna + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 3.755
8 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Greek @ 3.794
9 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 3.804
10 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Central-Sicily @ 3.935

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 6 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 7 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 74.61% Kurd + 25.39% Lezgin @ 2.984
2 69.92% Kurd + 30.08% Adygei @ 3.059
3 50.39% Assyrian + 49.61% Lezgin @ 3.122
4 50.39% Lezgin + 49.61% Assyrian @ 3.127
5 54.30% Iranian_Lor + 45.70% Adygei @ 3.325
6 73.83% Kurd + 26.17% Chechen @ 3.558
7 50.39% Adygei + 49.61% Iranian_Lor @ 3.667
8 58.20% Iran + 41.80% Adygei @ 4.131
9 51.95% Iranian_Persian + 48.05% Adygei @ 4.478
10 53.52% Azeri_Jew + 46.48% Lezgin @ 4.533

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Kurd @ 7.995
2 100% Azer_Dagestan @ 8.310
3 100% ossetian @ 10.671
4 100% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 10.811
5 100% Kabardin @ 11.630
6 100% Georgian_Laz @ 12.191
7 100% Balkar @ 12.397
8 100% Iran @ 12.569
9 100% Azeri @ 13.763
10 100% Iranian_Lor @ 14.470

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Assyrian + 50% Lezgin @ 3.120
2 50% Iranian_Lor + 50% Adygei @ 3.617
3 50% Iranian_Persian + 50% Adygei @ 4.520
4 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Lezgin @ 4.724
5 50% Iran + 50% Adygei @ 4.798
6 50% Chechen + 50% IranJew @ 4.799
7 50% IranJew + 50% Lezgin @ 4.958
8 50% Adygei + 50% IranJew @ 5.362
9 50% Kurd + 50% ossetian @ 5.501
10 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Chechen @ 5.536

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 7 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 7 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 74.61% Kurd + 25.39% Lezgin @ 2.984
2 69.92% Kurd + 30.08% Adygei @ 3.059
3 50.39% Assyrian + 49.61% Lezgin @ 3.122
4 50.39% Lezgin + 49.61% Assyrian @ 3.127
5 54.30% Iranian_Lor + 45.70% Adygei @ 3.325
6 73.83% Kurd + 26.17% Chechen @ 3.558
7 50.39% Adygei + 49.61% Iranian_Lor @ 3.667
8 58.20% Iran + 41.80% Adygei @ 4.131
9 51.95% Iranian_Persian + 48.05% Adygei @ 4.478
10 53.52% Azeri_Jew + 46.48% Lezgin @ 4.533

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Kurd @ 7.995
2 100% Azer_Dagestan @ 8.310
3 100% ossetian @ 10.671
4 100% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 10.811
5 100% Kabardin @ 11.630
6 100% Georgian_Laz @ 12.191
7 100% Balkar @ 12.397
8 100% Iran @ 12.569
9 100% Azeri @ 13.763
10 100% Iranian_Lor @ 14.470

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Assyrian + 50% Lezgin @ 3.120
2 50% Iranian_Lor + 50% Adygei @ 3.617
3 50% Iranian_Persian + 50% Adygei @ 4.520
4 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Lezgin @ 4.724
5 50% Iran + 50% Adygei @ 4.798
6 50% Chechen + 50% IranJew @ 4.799
7 50% IranJew + 50% Lezgin @ 4.958
8 50% Adygei + 50% IranJew @ 5.362
9 50% Kurd + 50% ossetian @ 5.501
10 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Chechen @ 5.536

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 7 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 8 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 87.11% Assyrian + 12.89% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 4.676
2 54.30% IranJew + 45.70% Assyrian @ 4.697
3 50.39% Assyrian + 49.61% IranJew @ 4.728
4 94.92% Assyrian + 5.08% Sakilli @ 4.812
5 71.48% Assyrian + 28.52% Lebanon @ 4.909
6 91.02% Assyrian + 8.98% Mozabite @ 4.915
7 68.36% Assyrian + 31.64% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.985
8 69.14% Assyrian + 30.86% Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.047
9 80.86% Assyrian + 19.14% Palestinian @ 5.096
10 90.23% Assyrian + 9.77% Moroccan @ 5.106

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% IranJew @ 6.820
2 100% Azeri_Jew @ 7.173
3 100% Assyrian @ 7.572
4 100% Syria @ 9.178
5 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 13.439
6 100% Lebanese_Christian @ 13.468
7 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 13.793
8 100% Armenia @ 14.052
9 100% Iranian_Lor @ 15.012
10 100% Lebanon @ 15.136

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% IranJew + 50% Assyrian @ 4.724
2 50% Assyrian + 50% Syria @ 5.333
3 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Assyrian @ 5.910
4 50% Assyrian + 50% Lebanese_Christian @ 6.037
5 50% Assyrian + 50% Lebanese_Muslim @ 6.197
6 50% Armenia + 50% Lebanon @ 6.251
7 50% Assyrian + 50% Lebanon @ 6.510
8 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% Armenia @ 6.572
9 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Syria @ 6.619
10 50% Armenia + 50% Jordanian @ 6.707

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 8 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 9 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 84.77% Cyprus + 15.23% Pakistan @ 8.463
2 80.86% Cyprus + 19.14% Pathan @ 8.505
3 83.98% Cyprus + 16.02% PakistanJatt @ 8.644
4 86.33% Cyprus + 13.67% Indian @ 8.658
5 88.67% Cyprus + 11.33% Indian_S @ 8.680
6 88.67% Cyprus + 11.33% North_Kannadi @ 8.894
7 90.23% Cyprus + 9.77% Sakilli @ 9.317
8 73.83% Cyprus + 26.17% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 9.841
9 74.61% Cyprus + 25.39% Iranian_Bandari @ 10.046
10 76.95% Assyrian + 23.05% Basque1 @ 10.286

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Cyprus @ 14.329
2 100% Lebanese_Christian @ 15.985
3 100% GreeceKos @ 16.491
4 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 16.726
5 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 17.425
6 100% Syria @ 17.511
7 100% IranJew @ 17.755
8 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 17.817
9 100% Azeri_Jew @ 17.901
10 100% Sephardic_Turkey @ 18.304

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Assyrian + 50% Italian @ 11.439
2 50% Iran + 50% Italian @ 11.721
3 50% Cyprus + 50% Turkish_Anadolu @ 11.831
4 50% Italian + 50% Armenia @ 11.834
5 50% Cyprus + 50% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 11.839
6 50% Iranian_Lor + 50% Italian @ 12.310
7 50% Cyprus + 50% Iranian_Persian @ 12.344
8 50% Cyprus + 50% Azeri @ 12.454
9 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Italian @ 12.482
10 50% AlgeriaJew + 50% Iran @ 12.500

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 9 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 10 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 51.17% Cyprus + 48.83% ossetian @ 3.542
2 50.39% ossetian + 49.61% Cyprus @ 3.583
3 53.52% Cyprus + 46.48% Balkar @ 3.704
4 84.77% Turkish_Trabzon + 15.23% Tuscan @ 3.910
5 87.89% Turkish_Trabzon + 12.11% Canary_Islander @ 3.934
6 89.45% Turkish_Trabzon + 10.55% Portugese @ 3.968
7 50.39% Balkar + 49.61% Cyprus @ 4.029
8 54.30% Turkish_Anadolu + 45.70% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.034
9 71.48% Turkish_Trabzon + 28.52% Turkish_Marmara @ 4.056
10 90.23% Turkish_Trabzon + 9.77% Spanish @ 4.059

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 7.154
2 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 8.187
3 100% Azeri_Jew @ 9.433
4 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 9.682
5 100% Azeri @ 9.842
6 100% IranJew @ 11.934
7 100% Armenia @ 13.863
8 100% Kurd @ 13.872
9 100% Iranian_Lor @ 14.100
10 100% Assyrian @ 14.730

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Cyprus + 50% ossetian @ 3.563
2 50% Cyprus + 50% Balkar @ 3.967
3 50% Turkish_Anadolu + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.079
4 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 4.267
5 50% Cyprus + 50% Kabardin @ 4.808
6 50% Armenia + 50% Turkish_Ege @ 4.875
7 50% Armenia + 50% Turkish_Marmara @ 4.914
8 50% Sephardic_Turkey + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 4.987
9 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% ossetian @ 5.102
10 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% ItalyJew @ 5.116

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 10 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 11 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 62.11% Georgian + 37.89% Iraqi @ 4.657
2 63.67% Abhkasian + 36.33% Iraqi @ 4.838
3 67.58% Abhkasian + 32.42% Palestinian @ 5.867
4 55.08% Assyrian + 44.92% Abhkasian @ 6.098
5 63.67% Abhkasian + 36.33% Jordanian @ 6.339
6 50.39% Abhkasian + 49.61% Assyrian @ 6.509
7 51.95% Abhkasian + 48.05% IranJew @ 6.550
8 73.83% Georgian + 26.17% Yemen @ 6.595
9 50.39% IranJew + 49.61% Abhkasian @ 6.674
10 62.11% Abhkasian + 37.89% Lebanon @ 6.863

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Georgian_Imereti @ 10.139
2 100% Georgian_Laz @ 11.277
3 100% Armenia @ 13.563
4 100% Kurd @ 16.315
5 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 17.669
6 100% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 18.339
7 100% Iran @ 18.772
8 100% Assyrian @ 19.786
9 100% ossetian @ 20.641
10 100% Iranian_Lor @ 21.839

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Assyrian + 50% Abhkasian @ 6.454
2 50% Abhkasian + 50% IranJew @ 6.640
3 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Abhkasian @ 7.138
4 50% Georgian + 50% IranJew @ 7.581
5 50% Abhkasian + 50% Syria @ 7.872
6 50% Iranian_Lor + 50% Abhkasian @ 8.342
7 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Georgian @ 8.398
8 50% Assyrian + 50% Georgian @ 8.428
9 50% Iranian_Lor + 50% Georgian @ 8.442
10 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Armenia @ 8.748

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 11 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 12 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 62.89% GreeceKos + 37.11% Iran @ 2.286
2 51.95% Greek + 48.05% Iran @ 2.712
3 84.77% Azeri_Jew + 15.23% Cornwall @ 2.719
4 85.55% Azeri_Jew + 14.45% English_Kent @ 2.722
5 69.14% GreeceKos + 30.86% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 2.791
6 50.39% Iran + 49.61% Greek @ 2.863
7 83.98% Azeri_Jew + 16.02% French @ 2.900
8 84.77% Azeri_Jew + 15.23% Belgian @ 3.019
9 58.98% GreeceKos + 41.02% Iranian_Lor @ 3.067
10 86.33% Azeri_Jew + 13.67% Irish @ 3.068

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 6.612
2 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 8.554
3 100% GreeceKos @ 10.977
4 100% Azeri_Jew @ 11.041
5 100% IranJew @ 11.507
6 100% Azeri @ 12.118
7 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 12.432
8 100% Turkish_Ege @ 13.214
9 100% Crete @ 13.233
10 100% Syria @ 14.298

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Greek + 50% Iran @ 2.822
2 50% Kurd + 50% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 3.235
3 50% Kurd + 50% ItalyJew @ 3.241
4 50% Iranian_Lor + 50% Greek @ 3.280
5 50% Kurd + 50% FranceJew @ 3.392
6 50% Greek + 50% Kurd @ 3.393
7 50% GreeceKos + 50% Azeri @ 3.628
8 50% Sephardic_Turkey + 50% Kurd @ 3.784
9 50% GreeceKos + 50% Iranian_Lor @ 3.867
10 50% Kurd + 50% Agrigento-Sicily @ 4.002

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 12 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 13 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 55.86% Georgian + 44.14% AlgeriaJew @ 6.808
2 51.17% Cyprus + 48.83% Georgian @ 6.949
3 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% Cyprus @ 7.004
4 55.86% Georgian + 44.14% ItalyJew @ 7.027
5 55.08% Georgian + 44.92% LibyaJew @ 7.187
6 53.52% Georgian + 46.48% Sephardic_Turkey @ 7.268
7 55.86% Georgian + 44.14% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 7.405
8 69.14% Georgian + 30.86% Mozabite @ 7.434
9 58.20% Georgian + 41.80% Italian @ 7.514
10 50.39% Sephardic_Turkey + 49.61% Georgian @ 7.784

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Georgian_Laz @ 12.693
2 100% Armenia @ 13.729
3 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 13.734
4 100% Georgian_Imereti @ 16.440
5 100% Assyrian @ 19.692
6 100% Kurd @ 19.887
7 100% ossetian @ 20.794
8 100% Azeri_Jew @ 21.063
9 100% Azeri @ 21.918
10 100% Iran @ 22.551

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Cyprus + 50% Georgian @ 6.978
2 50% Georgian + 50% Sephardic_Turkey @ 7.696
3 50% Georgian + 50% AlgeriaJew @ 7.938
4 50% Georgian + 50% LibyaJew @ 8.004
5 50% Georgian + 50% ItalyJew @ 8.057
6 50% GreeceKos + 50% Georgian @ 8.215
7 50% Georgian + 50% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 8.352
8 50% Georgian + 50% Greek @ 8.496
9 50% Georgian + 50% FranceJew @ 8.597
10 50% Georgian + 50% Crete @ 9.189

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 13 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 14 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 77.73% Assyrian + 22.27% Cyprus @ 3.540
2 62.11% Armenia + 37.89% Cyprus @ 3.543
3 94.92% Assyrian + 5.08% Basque1 @ 4.093
4 90.23% Assyrian + 9.77% Italian @ 4.104
5 92.58% Assyrian + 7.42% Italian_North @ 4.198
6 94.92% Assyrian + 5.08% Spanish @ 4.257
7 94.14% Assyrian + 5.86% Portugese @ 4.302
8 92.58% Assyrian + 7.42% Tuscan @ 4.408
9 88.67% Assyrian + 11.33% Greek @ 4.425
10 88.67% Assyrian + 11.33% ItalyJew @ 4.430

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Assyrian @ 5.876
2 100% Azeri_Jew @ 9.972
3 100% Armenia @ 10.582
4 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 11.051
5 100% Syria @ 11.213
6 100% IranJew @ 12.306
7 100% Lebanese_Christian @ 15.394
8 100% Cyprus @ 16.675
9 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 16.675
10 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 18.381

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Armenia + 50% Cyprus @ 4.748
2 50% Armenia + 50% Syria @ 5.181
3 50% Armenia + 50% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.315
4 50% Assyrian + 50% Assyrian @ 5.876
5 50% Assyrian + 50% Syria @ 6.147
6 50% Cyprus + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 6.587
7 50% Assyrian + 50% Cyprus @ 6.797
8 50% Assyrian + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 6.894
9 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Syria @ 7.151
10 50% Armenia + 50% Lebanon @ 7.172

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 14 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 15 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 80.08% Armenia + 19.92% Basque1 @ 4.057
2 69.92% Armenia + 30.08% Italian_North @ 4.227
3 76.95% Armenia + 23.05% Spanish @ 4.470
4 59.77% Armenia + 40.23% Italian @ 4.535
5 76.17% Armenia + 23.83% Portugese @ 4.708
6 68.36% ItalyJew + 31.64% Georgian @ 5.094
7 80.86% Assyrian + 19.14% Basque1 @ 5.292
8 67.58% Armenia + 32.42% Tuscan @ 5.410
9 68.36% AlgeriaJew + 31.64% Georgian @ 5.438
10 71.48% Sephardic_Turkey + 28.52% Georgian @ 5.508

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 13.690
2 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 14.016
3 100% GreeceKos @ 14.194
4 100% Azeri_Jew @ 14.512
5 100% Cyprus @ 14.936
6 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 15.539
7 100% Syria @ 16.033
8 100% Lebanese_Christian @ 16.465
9 100% IranJew @ 16.675
10 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 16.864

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Armenia + 50% Italian @ 6.291
2 50% Armenia + 50% Greek @ 6.317
3 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Italian @ 6.723
4 50% Italian + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 6.885
5 50% Armenia + 50% Agrigento-Sicily @ 6.937
6 50% ItalyJew + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 7.175
7 50% Armenia + 50% West-Sicily @ 7.213
8 50% AlgeriaJew + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 7.308
9 50% Armenia + 50% Italian_South_Salern @ 7.324
10 50% Sephardic_Bulgaria + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 7.598

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 15 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 16 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 79.30% Iran + 20.70% Georgian @ 7.462
2 72.27% Iranian_Lor + 27.73% Georgian @ 7.734
3 63.67% Iran + 36.33% Georgian_Imereti @ 8.033
4 80.86% Iran + 19.14% Abhkasian @ 8.348
5 69.14% Iranian_Persian + 30.86% Georgian @ 8.481
6 50.39% Georgian_Imereti + 49.61% Iran @ 8.583
7 53.52% Iranian_Lor + 46.48% Georgian_Imereti @ 8.706
8 50.39% Georgian_Imereti + 49.61% Iranian_Lor @ 8.768
9 58.98% Iran + 41.02% Georgian_Laz @ 8.796
10 73.05% Iranian_Lor + 26.95% Abhkasian @ 8.878

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Kurd @ 11.146
2 100% Iran @ 11.292
3 100% Armenia @ 12.921
4 100% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 13.358
5 100% Georgian_Laz @ 13.465
6 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 13.725
7 100% Iranian_Lor @ 14.429
8 100% Azeri @ 15.574
9 100% Georgian_Imereti @ 15.979
10 100% Iranian_Persian @ 16.876

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Iran + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 8.554
2 50% Iranian_Lor + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 8.757
3 50% Iran + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 8.933
4 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Iranian_Persian @ 9.034
5 50% Armenia + 50% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 9.128
6 50% Iran + 50% Armenia @ 9.365
7 50% Azeri + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 9.899
8 50% Iranian_Mazandarani + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 9.950
9 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Iranian_Lor @ 10.024
10 50% Iranian_Mazandarani + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 10.334

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 16 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 17 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 79.30% Cyprus + 20.70% Abhkasian @ 3.061
2 80.86% Lebanese_Christian + 19.14% Georgian @ 3.084
3 70.70% Cyprus + 29.30% Georgian_Imereti @ 3.194
4 64.45% Cyprus + 35.55% Georgian_Laz @ 3.395
5 53.52% Cyprus + 46.48% Armenia @ 3.463
6 50.39% Armenia + 49.61% Cyprus @ 3.638
7 79.30% Cyprus + 20.70% Georgian @ 3.666
8 79.30% Armenia + 20.70% Mozabite @ 3.724
9 50.39% Turkish_Trabzon + 49.61% Cyprus @ 3.918
10 50.39% Cyprus + 49.61% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.925

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Syria @ 8.834
2 100% Azeri_Jew @ 9.808
3 100% Assyrian @ 11.214
4 100% Lebanese_Christian @ 11.534
5 100% IranJew @ 11.797
6 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 12.318
7 100% Cyprus @ 12.604
8 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 12.712
9 100% Armenia @ 14.564
10 100% Lebanon @ 15.314

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Cyprus + 50% Armenia @ 3.607
2 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Cyprus @ 3.920
3 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% Armenia @ 5.133
4 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 5.221
5 50% Armenia + 50% LibyaJew @ 5.361
6 50% Assyrian + 50% Cyprus @ 5.676
7 50% Cyprus + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 5.919
8 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Cyprus @ 6.431
9 50% Syria + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 6.488
10 50% Armenia + 50% Sephardic_Turkey @ 6.510

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 17 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 18 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 92.58% Assyrian + 7.42% Abhkasian @ 4.611
2 89.45% Armenia + 10.55% Yemen_Jewish @ 4.617
3 88.67% Armenia + 11.33% Yemen @ 4.683
4 92.58% Assyrian + 7.42% Adygei @ 4.722
5 71.48% Georgian_Imereti + 28.52% Yemen_Jewish @ 4.859
6 94.14% Assyrian + 5.86% Georgian @ 4.975
7 90.23% Assyrian + 9.77% Georgian_Imereti @ 4.990
8 87.11% Assyrian + 12.89% Georgian_Laz @ 5.003
9 94.14% Assyrian + 5.86% North_Ossetian @ 5.023
10 94.14% Assyrian + 5.86% Chechen @ 5.027

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Assyrian @ 5.500
2 100% Armenia @ 8.125
3 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 11.352
4 100% Azeri_Jew @ 12.058
5 100% IranJew @ 14.310
6 100% Georgian_Laz @ 16.350
7 100% Syria @ 16.455
8 100% Kurd @ 16.492
9 100% Iranian_Lor @ 18.574
10 100% Iran @ 19.170

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Assyrian + 50% Assyrian @ 5.500
2 50% Assyrian + 50% Armenia @ 5.621
3 50% Palestinian + 50% Abhkasian @ 6.694
4 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Iraqi @ 7.083
5 50% Assyrian + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 7.321
6 50% Armenia + 50% Armenia @ 8.125
7 50% Palestinian + 50% Georgian @ 8.225
8 50% Assyrian + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 8.268
9 50% Armenia + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 8.309
10 50% Assyrian + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 8.315

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 18 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 19 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 62.89% Georgian + 37.11% Mozabite @ 5.435
2 62.11% Abhkasian + 37.89% Mozabite @ 5.640
3 57.42% Georgian + 42.58% Tunisian @ 5.780
4 54.30% LibyaJew + 45.70% Georgian @ 6.603
5 60.55% Georgian + 39.45% Moroccan @ 7.028
6 58.98% Georgian + 41.02% Algerian @ 7.117
7 57.42% Georgian + 42.58% Libyan @ 7.304
8 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% LibyaJew @ 7.360
9 75.39% Georgian_Imereti + 24.61% Mozabite @ 7.841
10 52.73% AlgeriaJew + 47.27% Georgian @ 8.109

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 13.321
2 100% Armenia @ 14.843
3 100% Georgian_Laz @ 16.332
4 100% Azeri_Jew @ 17.355
5 100% Assyrian @ 18.419
6 100% Azeri @ 18.904
7 100% Kurd @ 18.910
8 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 19.125
9 100% IranJew @ 20.270
10 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 20.449

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% LibyaJew + 50% Georgian @ 7.247
2 50% AlgeriaJew + 50% Georgian @ 8.361
3 50% Georgian + 50% Tunisian @ 8.863
4 50% LibyaJew + 50% Abhkasian @ 9.195
5 50% Georgian + 50% Bedouin @ 9.376
6 50% Georgian + 50% Libyan @ 9.500
7 50% Sephardic_Turkey + 50% Georgian @ 9.852
8 50% ItalyJew + 50% Georgian @ 9.879
9 50% AlgeriaJew + 50% Abhkasian @ 10.041
10 50% Sephardic_Bulgaria + 50% Georgian @ 10.230

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 19 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 20 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 80.08% GreeceKos + 19.92% Assyrian @ 2.469
2 52.73% East-Sicily18 + 47.27% Assyrian @ 2.527
3 71.48% Crete + 28.52% Assyrian @ 2.685
4 50.39% Assyrian + 49.61% East-Sicily18 @ 2.825
5 53.52% Sicilian_Siracuse + 46.48% Assyrian @ 2.880
6 72.27% GreeceKos + 27.73% Syria @ 2.944
7 75.39% GreeceKos + 24.61% Azeri_Jew @ 3.013
8 75.39% GreeceKos + 24.61% IranJew @ 3.056
9 55.08% Central-Sicily + 44.92% Assyrian @ 3.074
10 55.08% Ashkenazy + 44.92% Assyrian @ 3.128

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% GreeceKos @ 5.706
2 100% Crete @ 8.799
3 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 9.881
4 100% Lebanese_Christian @ 11.243
5 100% Sephardic_Turkey @ 11.335
6 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 11.805
7 100% Cyprus @ 12.270
8 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 12.652
9 100% Greek @ 12.731
10 100% Syria @ 13.106

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% East-Sicily18 + 50% Assyrian @ 2.759
2 50% Sicilian_Siracuse + 50% Assyrian @ 3.129
3 50% ItalyAbruzzo + 50% Assyrian @ 3.228
4 50% GreeceSmyrna + 50% Syria @ 3.394
5 50% Syria + 50% GreecePhokaia @ 3.598
6 50% Ashkenazy + 50% Assyrian @ 3.649
7 50% Central-Sicily + 50% Assyrian @ 3.675
8 50% Romanian_Jew + 50% Assyrian @ 3.675
9 50% Sicilian_Trapani + 50% Assyrian @ 3.930
10 50% GreeceCentral + 50% Assyrian @ 3.971

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 20 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 21 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 54.30% Georgian + 45.70% Italian_North @ 12.892
2 60.55% Georgian + 39.45% Portugese @ 13.154
3 52.73% Italian + 47.27% Georgian @ 13.241
4 61.33% Georgian + 38.67% Spanish @ 13.308
5 75.39% Georgian_Imereti + 24.61% Basque1 @ 13.427
6 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% Italian @ 13.458
7 50.39% Italian_North + 49.61% Georgian @ 13.497
8 52.73% Georgian + 47.27% Tuscan @ 13.585
9 50.39% Tuscan + 49.61% Georgian @ 13.784
10 65.23% Georgian + 34.77% Basque1 @ 14.509

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 21.609
2 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 23.302
3 100% Georgian_Laz @ 24.163
4 100% Azeri @ 24.294
5 100% Armenia @ 24.368
6 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 24.601
7 100% Kurd @ 25.392
8 100% Iran @ 25.609
9 100% Azeri_Jew @ 25.830
10 100% ossetian @ 26.419

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Georgian + 50% Italian_North @ 13.403
2 50% Italian + 50% Georgian @ 13.410
3 50% Georgian + 50% Tuscan @ 13.734
4 50% Sicilian_Trapani + 50% Georgian @ 15.365
5 50% Agrigento-Sicily + 50% Georgian @ 15.594
6 50% West-Sicily + 50% Georgian @ 15.793
7 50% Abhkasian + 50% Italian_North @ 15.849
8 50% Italian_South_Salern + 50% Georgian @ 16.192
9 50% Sephardic_Bulgaria + 50% Georgian @ 16.284
10 50% ItalyJew + 50% Georgian @ 16.374

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 21 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 22 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 55.86% Georgian + 44.14% AlgeriaJew @ 4.057
2 55.86% Georgian + 44.14% ItalyJew @ 4.130
3 53.52% Georgian + 46.48% Sephardic_Turkey @ 4.245
4 55.86% Georgian + 44.14% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 4.653
5 55.08% Georgian + 44.92% LibyaJew @ 4.756
6 50.39% Sephardic_Turkey + 49.61% Georgian @ 4.996
7 55.08% Georgian + 44.92% FranceJew @ 5.054
8 51.17% Cyprus + 48.83% Georgian @ 5.143
9 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% Cyprus @ 5.208
10 51.17% GreeceKos + 48.83% Georgian @ 5.243

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Georgian_Laz @ 10.225
2 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 11.580
3 100% Armenia @ 11.867
4 100% Georgian_Imereti @ 14.689
5 100% Kurd @ 17.851
6 100% Assyrian @ 18.416
7 100% ossetian @ 18.626
8 100% Azeri_Jew @ 19.559
9 100% Azeri @ 20.124
10 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 20.932

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Georgian + 50% Sephardic_Turkey @ 4.866
2 50% Cyprus + 50% Georgian @ 5.177
3 50% GreeceKos + 50% Georgian @ 5.276
4 50% Georgian + 50% ItalyJew @ 5.623
5 50% Georgian + 50% AlgeriaJew @ 5.698
6 50% Georgian + 50% LibyaJew @ 5.880
7 50% Georgian + 50% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 5.956
8 50% Georgian + 50% Greek @ 6.038
9 50% Georgian + 50% FranceJew @ 6.113
10 50% Georgian + 50% Crete @ 6.395

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 22 -----
[/code


Commentary: Nothing too extraordinary here, either. She also gets a bit of % Indian/Pakistan on Chr. 9, so there's consistency there. Chr. 19 also seems to want a North African reference, that doesn't seem to have made it through to me. Other than that, overall she seems more consistent to South Caucasus + East Med combos, which means that my North Caucasus shifts are probably expressed through my grandfather's genes.

dosas
02-26-2021, 09:24 AM
My mother (Trabzon) seems normal and consistent in comparison:





----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 1 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 53.52% Assyrian + 46.48% Iranian_Lor @ 1.284
2 61.33% Assyrian + 38.67% Iranian_Persian @ 1.409
3 83.20% Assyrian + 16.80% Tadjik @ 1.592
4 50.39% Iranian_Lor + 49.61% Assyrian @ 1.645
5 64.45% Assyrian + 35.55% Kurd @ 1.738
6 87.11% IranJew + 12.89% Abhkasian @ 1.883
7 73.83% Assyrian + 26.17% Iranian_Bandari @ 1.927
8 69.14% Assyrian + 30.86% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 1.959
9 84.77% Assyrian + 15.23% Pathan @ 1.985
10 56.64% Assyrian + 43.36% Iran @ 2.005

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Assyrian @ 4.243
2 100% Azeri_Jew @ 4.475
3 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 5.470
4 100% Iranian_Lor @ 6.276
5 100% Armenia @ 6.433
6 100% IranJew @ 7.058
7 100% Iranian_Persian @ 8.068
8 100% Iran @ 8.621
9 100% Kurd @ 8.698
10 100% Azeri @ 8.747

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Assyrian + 50% Iranian_Lor @ 1.608
2 50% Assyrian + 50% Iranian_Persian @ 2.460
3 50% Iraqi + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 2.564
4 50% Assyrian + 50% Iran @ 2.781
5 50% Assyrian + 50% Kurd @ 2.819
6 50% Assyrian + 50% Azeri @ 2.844
7 50% Assyrian + 50% IranJew @ 3.175
8 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Iraqi @ 3.258
9 50% Armenia + 50% IranJew @ 3.314
10 50% Syria + 50% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 3.503

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 1 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 58.20% Syria + 41.80% Abhkasian @ 1.579
2 50.39% Lebanese_Christian + 49.61% Abhkasian @ 1.580
3 50.39% Abhkasian + 49.61% Lebanese_Christian @ 1.726
4 55.08% Syria + 44.92% Georgian @ 1.757
5 50.39% Lebanon + 49.61% Abhkasian @ 1.883
6 50.39% Lebanon + 49.61% Georgian @ 1.883
7 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% Lebanon @ 1.925
8 50.39% Abhkasian + 49.61% Lebanon @ 1.931
9 51.17% Georgian_Laz + 48.83% Armenia @ 1.966
10 64.45% Georgian_Laz + 35.55% Assyrian @ 1.976

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Armenia @ 3.208
2 100% Georgian_Laz @ 4.674
3 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 7.600
4 100% Georgian_Imereti @ 8.642
5 100% Kurd @ 8.920
6 100% Assyrian @ 9.139
7 100% Iran @ 13.238
8 100% Iranian_Lor @ 13.522
9 100% ossetian @ 14.077
10 100% Azeri_Jew @ 14.115

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Abhkasian + 50% Lebanese_Christian @ 1.613
2 50% Georgian + 50% Lebanon @ 1.861
3 50% Abhkasian + 50% Lebanon @ 1.882
4 50% Armenia + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 1.978
5 50% Syria + 50% Abhkasian @ 2.302
6 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Assyrian @ 2.811
7 50% Armenia + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 2.910
8 50% Abhkasian + 50% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.975
9 50% Syria + 50% Georgian @ 3.024
10 50% Abhkasian + 50% Jordanian @ 3.105

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 3 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 65.23% LibyaJew + 34.77% Georgian @ 3.426
2 64.45% Cyprus + 35.55% Georgian @ 4.202
3 68.36% Georgian_Imereti + 31.64% Mozabite @ 4.310
4 51.95% AlgeriaJew + 48.05% Georgian @ 4.310
5 63.67% Georgian + 36.33% Mozabite @ 4.331
6 69.92% Cyprus + 30.08% North_Ossetian @ 4.660
7 88.67% Armenia + 11.33% Basque1 @ 4.728
8 74.61% Armenia + 25.39% Italian @ 4.812
9 74.61% Georgian_Laz + 25.39% Mozabite @ 4.823
10 86.33% Armenia + 13.67% Spanish @ 5.063

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 9.360
2 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 10.040
3 100% Azeri_Jew @ 10.628
4 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 10.950
5 100% Armenia @ 11.121
6 100% Assyrian @ 11.400
7 100% IranJew @ 11.670
8 100% Georgian_Laz @ 12.130
9 100% Azeri @ 13.190
10 100% Syria @ 13.693

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% AlgeriaJew + 50% Georgian @ 4.982
2 50% ItalyJew + 50% Georgian @ 5.343
3 50% Sephardic_Bulgaria + 50% Georgian @ 5.804
4 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% LibyaJew @ 5.890
5 50% Cyprus + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 5.900
6 50% LibyaJew + 50% Georgian @ 5.905
7 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% LibyaJew @ 5.919
8 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Cyprus @ 6.255
9 50% FranceJew + 50% Georgian @ 6.266
10 50% Georgian + 50% Tunisian @ 6.542

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 3 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 4 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 93.36% Georgian_Laz + 6.64% Cyprus @ 1.267
2 94.92% Georgian_Laz + 5.08% LibyaJew @ 1.312
3 96.48% Georgian_Laz + 3.52% Egypt @ 1.314
4 96.48% Georgian_Laz + 3.52% Libyan_LIB8 @ 1.315
5 96.48% Georgian_Laz + 3.52% Bedouin @ 1.319
6 96.48% Georgian_Laz + 3.52% Libyan @ 1.321
7 94.14% Georgian_Laz + 5.86% Jordanian @ 1.347
8 93.36% Georgian_Laz + 6.64% Lebanese_Christian @ 1.359
9 95.70% Georgian_Laz + 4.30% Syria @ 1.372
10 94.92% Georgian_Laz + 5.08% AlgeriaJew @ 1.375

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Georgian_Laz @ 1.974
2 100% Armenia @ 5.523
3 100% Georgian_Imereti @ 6.776
4 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 8.480
5 100% Kurd @ 8.800
6 100% Azer_Dagestan @ 11.056
7 100% ossetian @ 11.377
8 100% Assyrian @ 11.839
9 100% Balkar @ 12.945
10 100% Kabardin @ 13.057

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Armenia @ 1.858
2 50% Abhkasian + 50% Lebanese_Christian @ 1.908
3 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 1.974
4 50% Armenia + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 2.522
5 50% Abhkasian + 50% Cyprus @ 2.661
6 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.732
7 50% Georgian + 50% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.875
8 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Assyrian @ 2.949
9 50% Abhkasian + 50% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.052
10 50% Abhkasian + 50% GreeceKos @ 3.327

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 4 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 5 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 58.20% AlgeriaJew + 41.80% Georgian @ 5.356
2 58.98% Georgian + 41.02% Italian @ 5.615
3 66.02% Georgian + 33.98% Mozabite @ 5.801
4 52.73% ItalyJew + 47.27% Georgian @ 5.909
5 58.98% Sephardic_Turkey + 41.02% Georgian @ 6.048
6 51.95% Sephardic_Bulgaria + 48.05% Georgian @ 6.301
7 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% ItalyJew @ 6.433
8 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 6.605
9 56.64% Georgian + 43.36% Agrigento-Sicily @ 6.645
10 50.39% FranceJew + 49.61% Georgian @ 6.666

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 11.550
2 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 12.890
3 100% Armenia @ 13.311
4 100% Azeri_Jew @ 14.193
5 100% Georgian_Laz @ 14.320
6 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 15.320
7 100% Azeri @ 15.380
8 100% IranJew @ 15.823
9 100% Georgian_Imereti @ 16.200
10 100% ossetian @ 16.623

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% ItalyJew + 50% Georgian @ 6.356
2 50% Sephardic_Bulgaria + 50% Georgian @ 6.529
3 50% FranceJew + 50% Georgian @ 6.740
4 50% AlgeriaJew + 50% Georgian @ 6.802
5 50% Georgian + 50% Italian @ 6.845
6 50% Greek + 50% Georgian @ 7.305
7 50% Sephardic_Turkey + 50% Georgian @ 7.519
8 50% Agrigento-Sicily + 50% Georgian @ 7.663
9 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Sephardic_Turkey @ 7.735
10 50% West-Sicily + 50% Georgian @ 7.869

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 5 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 6 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 51.95% Adygei + 48.05% Cyprus @ 1.843
2 80.08% Georgian_Laz + 19.92% East-Sicily18 @ 1.876
3 80.86% Georgian_Laz + 19.14% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 1.904
4 73.83% Georgian_Laz + 26.17% Crete @ 1.908
5 76.17% Georgian_Laz + 23.83% GreecePhokaia @ 1.919
6 77.73% Georgian_Laz + 22.27% Ashkenazy @ 1.924
7 82.42% Georgian_Laz + 17.58% ItalyAbruzzo @ 1.934
8 72.27% Georgian_Laz + 27.73% GreeceMacedonia @ 1.938
9 80.08% Georgian_Laz + 19.92% Central-Sicily @ 1.946
10 75.39% Georgian_Laz + 24.61% GreeceSmyrna @ 1.948

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.770
2 100% Azer_Dagestan @ 7.642
3 100% Azeri_Jew @ 7.753
4 100% Azeri @ 8.214
5 100% Georgian_Laz @ 8.228
6 100% Armenia @ 8.331
7 100% Kurd @ 8.920
8 100% IranJew @ 9.848
9 100% Kabardin @ 10.727
10 100% Assyrian @ 11.139

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Adygei + 50% Cyprus @ 2.333
2 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% Chechen @ 2.449
3 50% Cyprus + 50% Chechen @ 2.472
4 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% North_Ossetian @ 2.480
5 50% Adygei + 50% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.513
6 50% ItalyJew + 50% Abhkasian @ 2.881
7 50% Armenia + 50% Kabardin @ 2.952
8 50% Sephardic_Turkey + 50% Abhkasian @ 2.956
9 50% Assyrian + 50% Balkar @ 2.964
10 50% Kabardin + 50% Assyrian @ 3.045

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 6 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 6 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 51.95% Adygei + 48.05% Cyprus @ 1.843
2 80.08% Georgian_Laz + 19.92% East-Sicily18 @ 1.876
3 80.86% Georgian_Laz + 19.14% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 1.904
4 73.83% Georgian_Laz + 26.17% Crete @ 1.908
5 76.17% Georgian_Laz + 23.83% GreecePhokaia @ 1.919
6 77.73% Georgian_Laz + 22.27% Ashkenazy @ 1.924
7 82.42% Georgian_Laz + 17.58% ItalyAbruzzo @ 1.934
8 72.27% Georgian_Laz + 27.73% GreeceMacedonia @ 1.938
9 80.08% Georgian_Laz + 19.92% Central-Sicily @ 1.946
10 75.39% Georgian_Laz + 24.61% GreeceSmyrna @ 1.948

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.770
2 100% Azer_Dagestan @ 7.642
3 100% Azeri_Jew @ 7.753
4 100% Azeri @ 8.214
5 100% Georgian_Laz @ 8.228
6 100% Armenia @ 8.331
7 100% Kurd @ 8.920
8 100% IranJew @ 9.848
9 100% Kabardin @ 10.727
10 100% Assyrian @ 11.139

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Adygei + 50% Cyprus @ 2.333
2 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% Chechen @ 2.449
3 50% Cyprus + 50% Chechen @ 2.472
4 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% North_Ossetian @ 2.480
5 50% Adygei + 50% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.513
6 50% ItalyJew + 50% Abhkasian @ 2.881
7 50% Armenia + 50% Kabardin @ 2.952
8 50% Sephardic_Turkey + 50% Abhkasian @ 2.956
9 50% Assyrian + 50% Balkar @ 2.964
10 50% Kabardin + 50% Assyrian @ 3.045

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 6 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 7 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 63.67% Lebanese_Muslim + 36.33% Georgian @ 1.593
2 63.67% Syria + 36.33% Georgian @ 2.358
3 50.39% LibyaJew + 49.61% Georgian @ 2.377
4 60.55% Lebanese_Christian + 39.45% Georgian @ 2.377
5 58.98% Lebanon + 41.02% Georgian @ 2.404
6 77.73% Georgian_Imereti + 22.27% Mozabite @ 2.465
7 76.95% Georgian_Imereti + 23.05% Tunisian @ 2.549
8 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% LibyaJew @ 2.591
9 59.77% Lebanese_Christian + 40.23% Abhkasian @ 2.632
10 61.33% Georgian + 38.67% Libyan @ 2.704

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.370
2 100% Armenia @ 4.580
3 100% Georgian_Laz @ 7.098
4 100% Kurd @ 7.826
5 100% Azeri_Jew @ 8.395
6 100% Azeri @ 9.218
7 100% Assyrian @ 10.509
8 100% Iranian_Lor @ 10.731
9 100% IranJew @ 10.978
10 100% Iran @ 11.608

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% LibyaJew + 50% Georgian @ 2.484
2 50% LibyaJew + 50% Abhkasian @ 2.858
3 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Syria @ 2.894
4 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.194
5 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.504
6 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 3.701
7 50% AlgeriaJew + 50% Georgian @ 3.758
8 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% IranJew @ 3.780
9 50% Georgian + 50% Bedouin @ 3.884
10 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Lebanon @ 4.038

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 7 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 8 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 91.02% Armenia + 8.98% Indian_S @ 4.353
2 91.02% Armenia + 8.98% Indian @ 4.374
3 91.02% Armenia + 8.98% Sakilli @ 4.385
4 91.02% Armenia + 8.98% North_Kannadi @ 4.462
5 83.20% Turkish_Trabzon + 16.80% Indian_S @ 4.517
6 77.73% Iran + 22.27% Cyprus @ 4.584
7 89.45% Armenia + 10.55% Pakistan @ 4.605
8 86.33% Turkish_Trabzon + 13.67% Sakilli @ 4.651
9 88.67% Armenia + 11.33% PakistanJatt @ 4.667
10 76.95% Armenia + 23.05% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 4.889

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Iranian_Lor @ 8.048
2 100% Kurd @ 8.236
3 100% Iranian_Persian @ 8.677
4 100% Iran @ 8.739
5 100% Azeri @ 8.824
6 100% Azeri_Jew @ 9.433
7 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 9.910
8 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 10.030
9 100% Armenia @ 10.331
10 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 10.820

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Iran + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 5.482
2 50% Iranian_Lor + 50% Armenia @ 5.730
3 50% Iran + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 5.828
4 50% Iranian_Persian + 50% Armenia @ 6.044
5 50% Iranian_Lor + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 6.055
6 50% Iran + 50% Armenia @ 6.075
7 50% Iranian_Persian + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 6.225
8 50% Iran + 50% IranJew @ 6.349
9 50% Kurd + 50% IranJew @ 6.416
10 50% Iranian_Persian + 50% IranJew @ 6.422

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 8 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 9 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 76.17% Italian + 23.83% Sakilli @ 4.833
2 76.17% Italian + 23.83% Indian_S @ 4.881
3 86.33% ItalyJew + 13.67% Sakilli @ 5.635
4 87.11% Sephardic_Bulgaria + 12.89% Sakilli @ 5.720
5 85.55% ItalyJew + 14.45% Indian_S @ 5.799
6 86.33% Sephardic_Bulgaria + 13.67% Indian_S @ 5.884
7 71.48% Italian + 28.52% North_Kannadi @ 6.011
8 87.11% FranceJew + 12.89% Sakilli @ 6.088
9 85.55% ItalyJew + 14.45% North_Kannadi @ 6.195
10 87.11% AlgeriaJew + 12.89% Sakilli @ 6.196

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 13.570
2 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 14.390
3 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 15.702
4 100% Turkish_Ege @ 15.810
5 100% Lebanon @ 16.079
6 100% Lebanese_Christian @ 16.802
7 100% Jordanian @ 17.021
8 100% Tuscan @ 17.282
9 100% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 17.352
10 100% FranceJew @ 17.570

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma + 50% ItalyJew @ 7.711
2 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma + 50% Algerian @ 7.995
3 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma + 50% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 8.044
4 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma + 50% AlgeriaJew @ 8.157
5 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma + 50% FranceJew @ 8.505
6 50% Mozabite + 50% Tajik_Pamir @ 8.516
7 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma + 50% Moroccan @ 8.630
8 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma + 50% Italian @ 8.825
9 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma + 50% Sephardic_Turkey @ 8.874
10 50% Tuscan + 50% Iranian_Bandari @ 9.163

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 9 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 10 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 67.58% Cyprus + 32.42% Abhkasian @ 2.779
2 65.23% Cyprus + 34.77% Georgian @ 2.779
3 59.77% Lebanese_Christian + 40.23% Georgian @ 2.780
4 91.80% Armenia + 8.20% Mozabite @ 2.783
5 87.89% Armenia + 12.11% Algerian @ 2.951
6 55.86% Cyprus + 44.14% Georgian_Imereti @ 2.986
7 87.11% Armenia + 12.89% AlgeriaJew @ 2.997
8 85.55% Armenia + 14.45% LibyaJew @ 3.012
9 96.48% Armenia + 3.52% Basque1 @ 3.023
10 92.58% Armenia + 7.42% Italian @ 3.078

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Armenia @ 4.941
2 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 5.700
3 100% Azeri_Jew @ 7.325
4 100% Georgian_Laz @ 8.168
5 100% Assyrian @ 8.269
6 100% Azeri @ 9.094
7 100% Kurd @ 9.766
8 100% IranJew @ 9.908
9 100% Iranian_Lor @ 10.201
10 100% Iran @ 11.078

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Cyprus @ 3.221
2 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.974
3 50% Armenia + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.061
4 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Cyprus @ 4.179
5 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Assyrian @ 4.200
6 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Syria @ 4.442
7 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.660
8 50% Armenia + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 4.694
9 50% LibyaJew + 50% Georgian @ 4.724
10 50% Syria + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 4.834

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 10 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 11 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 91.80% Kurd + 8.20% EthiopiaOromo @ 4.017
2 92.58% Kurd + 7.42% Somali @ 4.038
3 91.80% Kurd + 8.20% Ethiopian_Jew @ 4.051
4 91.02% Kurd + 8.98% Ethiopia @ 4.212
5 63.67% Adygei + 36.33% Egypt @ 4.219
6 68.36% Chechen + 31.64% Egypt @ 4.360
7 92.58% Kurd + 7.42% EthiopiaTigre @ 4.570
8 91.80% Kurd + 8.20% Eritrea @ 4.582
9 91.80% Kurd + 8.20% EthiopiaAmhara @ 4.597
10 83.20% ossetian + 16.80% EthiopiaAmhara @ 4.614

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Iranian_Lor @ 9.150
2 100% Azeri @ 9.515
3 100% Iran @ 10.058
4 100% ossetian @ 10.077
5 100% Kurd @ 10.091
6 100% Azer_Dagestan @ 10.108
7 100% Balkar @ 10.177
8 100% Georgian_Laz @ 10.326
9 100% Kabardin @ 10.420
10 100% Armenia @ 10.420

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Lezgin + 50% Jordanian @ 6.314
2 50% Chechen + 50% Jordanian @ 6.860
3 50% Chechen + 50% Lebanon @ 7.251
4 50% Adygei + 50% Jordanian @ 7.279
5 50% North_Ossetian + 50% Jordanian @ 7.512
6 50% Lezgin + 50% Lebanon @ 7.557
7 50% Chechen + 50% Lebanese_Muslim @ 7.657
8 50% North_Ossetian + 50% Lebanon @ 7.661
9 50% Lebanon + 50% Abhkasian @ 7.669
10 50% Adygei + 50% Lebanon @ 7.669

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 11 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 12 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 81.64% Turkish_Trabzon + 18.36% Nogay @ 2.675
2 66.02% Georgian_Laz + 33.98% Turkish_Ege @ 2.709
3 94.14% Turkish_Trabzon + 5.86% Han @ 2.734
4 94.14% Turkish_Trabzon + 5.86% Mongola @ 2.734
5 94.92% Turkish_Trabzon + 5.08% Oroqen @ 2.743
6 94.92% Turkish_Trabzon + 5.08% Hezhen @ 2.743
7 94.92% Turkish_Trabzon + 5.08% Daur @ 2.743
8 94.92% Turkish_Trabzon + 5.08% Korean @ 2.743
9 94.92% Turkish_Trabzon + 5.08% Japanese @ 2.743
10 66.80% Armenia + 33.20% Turkish_Ege @ 2.748

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.200
2 100% Armenia @ 4.773
3 100% Azeri_Jew @ 7.703
4 100% Azeri @ 8.214
5 100% Kurd @ 8.920
6 100% Georgian_Laz @ 9.328
7 100% IranJew @ 9.333
8 100% Azer_Dagestan @ 10.276
9 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 10.890
10 100% Assyrian @ 11.089

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Cyprus + 50% North_Ossetian @ 3.037
2 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% North_Ossetian @ 3.037
3 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Turkish_Anadolu @ 3.157
4 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 3.263
5 50% ossetian + 50% Syria @ 3.285
6 50% Armenia + 50% Turkish_Anadolu @ 3.645
7 50% Syria + 50% Balkar @ 3.683
8 50% Turkish_Anadolu + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 3.817
9 50% Turkish_Akdeniz + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 3.927
10 50% Adygei + 50% Cyprus @ 4.059

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 12 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 12 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 81.64% Turkish_Trabzon + 18.36% Nogay @ 2.675
2 66.02% Georgian_Laz + 33.98% Turkish_Ege @ 2.709
3 94.14% Turkish_Trabzon + 5.86% Han @ 2.734
4 94.14% Turkish_Trabzon + 5.86% Mongola @ 2.734
5 94.92% Turkish_Trabzon + 5.08% Oroqen @ 2.743
6 94.92% Turkish_Trabzon + 5.08% Hezhen @ 2.743
7 94.92% Turkish_Trabzon + 5.08% Daur @ 2.743
8 94.92% Turkish_Trabzon + 5.08% Korean @ 2.743
9 94.92% Turkish_Trabzon + 5.08% Japanese @ 2.743
10 66.80% Armenia + 33.20% Turkish_Ege @ 2.748

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.200
2 100% Armenia @ 4.773
3 100% Azeri_Jew @ 7.703
4 100% Azeri @ 8.214
5 100% Kurd @ 8.920
6 100% Georgian_Laz @ 9.328
7 100% IranJew @ 9.333
8 100% Azer_Dagestan @ 10.276
9 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 10.890
10 100% Assyrian @ 11.089

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Cyprus + 50% North_Ossetian @ 3.037
2 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% North_Ossetian @ 3.037
3 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Turkish_Anadolu @ 3.157
4 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 3.263
5 50% ossetian + 50% Syria @ 3.285
6 50% Armenia + 50% Turkish_Anadolu @ 3.645
7 50% Syria + 50% Balkar @ 3.683
8 50% Turkish_Anadolu + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 3.817
9 50% Turkish_Akdeniz + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 3.927
10 50% Adygei + 50% Cyprus @ 4.059

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 12 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 13 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 94.92% Assyrian + 5.08% Uygur @ 1.888
2 92.58% Assyrian + 7.42% Turkmen @ 1.911
3 91.80% Assyrian + 8.20% Nogay @ 1.956
4 92.58% Assyrian + 7.42% Adygei @ 1.974
5 94.14% Assyrian + 5.86% Uzbek @ 1.990
6 95.70% Assyrian + 4.30% Kirghiz_Pamir @ 1.998
7 89.45% Assyrian + 10.55% North_Ossetian @ 2.002
8 94.92% Assyrian + 5.08% Karakalpak @ 2.027
9 92.58% Assyrian + 7.42% UZB_Turkmen @ 2.027
10 95.70% Assyrian + 4.30% Kirghiz @ 2.032

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Assyrian @ 3.299
2 100% Armenia @ 4.813
3 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 5.700
4 100% Azeri_Jew @ 6.095
5 100% Kurd @ 8.458
6 100% IranJew @ 8.678
7 100% Iranian_Lor @ 8.751
8 100% Azeri @ 9.094
9 100% Iran @ 9.628
10 100% Georgian_Laz @ 10.514

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Assyrian + 50% Armenia @ 2.388
2 50% Assyrian + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 3.066
3 50% Assyrian + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.128
4 50% Assyrian + 50% Assyrian @ 3.299
5 50% Armenia + 50% Syria @ 3.305
6 50% Armenia + 50% IranJew @ 3.581
7 50% Armenia + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 3.622
8 50% Palestinian + 50% Georgian @ 3.803
9 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 3.974
10 50% Assyrian + 50% Iranian_Lor @ 3.975

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 13 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 14 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 78.52% Assyrian + 21.48% Basque1 @ 6.767
2 52.73% Italian + 47.27% Georgian @ 7.219
3 80.08% Armenia + 19.92% Basque1 @ 7.304
4 54.30% Armenia + 45.70% Italian @ 7.418
5 67.58% Assyrian + 32.42% Italian_North @ 7.511
6 74.61% AlgeriaJew + 25.39% Georgian @ 7.742
7 54.30% Georgian + 45.70% Mozabite @ 7.785
8 69.14% Armenia + 30.86% Italian_North @ 7.880
9 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% Italian @ 7.907
10 70.70% ItalyJew + 29.30% Georgian @ 7.922

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% GreeceKos @ 13.670
2 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 14.867
3 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 15.080
4 100% Cyprus @ 15.194
5 100% Lebanese_Christian @ 15.240
6 100% Turkish_Ege @ 15.470
7 100% Syria @ 15.787
8 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 15.860
9 100% Crete @ 15.921
10 100% Lebanon @ 16.308

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Italian + 50% Georgian @ 7.798
2 50% Armenia + 50% Italian @ 7.914
3 50% Georgian + 50% Mozabite @ 8.479
4 50% Armenia + 50% Agrigento-Sicily @ 9.221
5 50% Assyrian + 50% Agrigento-Sicily @ 9.360
6 50% Armenia + 50% West-Sicily @ 9.434
7 50% Georgian_Imereti + 50% Italian @ 9.454
8 50% Assyrian + 50% West-Sicily @ 9.574
9 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% ItalyJew @ 9.596
10 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Italian @ 9.695

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 14 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 15 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 85.55% Turkish_Trabzon + 14.45% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 7.079
2 61.33% Armenia + 38.67% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 7.325
3 71.48% Turkish_Akdeniz + 28.52% Armenia @ 7.485
4 76.95% Iran + 23.05% Italian @ 7.621
5 67.58% Turkish_Anadolu + 32.42% Armenia @ 7.682
6 51.95% Turkish_Akdeniz + 48.05% Turkish_Trabzon @ 7.733
7 98.83% Turkish_Trabzon + 1.17% Sakilli @ 7.773
8 72.27% Turkish_Akdeniz + 27.73% Assyrian @ 7.775
9 98.05% Turkish_Trabzon + 1.95% Indian_S @ 7.779
10 50.39% Turkish_Trabzon + 49.61% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 7.783

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 8.850
2 100% Armenia @ 9.713
3 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 10.300
4 100% Georgian_Laz @ 11.208
5 100% Azeri @ 11.370
6 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 11.440
7 100% Azeri_Jew @ 12.643
8 100% ossetian @ 13.843
9 100% Iranian_Lor @ 13.938
10 100% Kurd @ 14.126

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 7.775
2 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Turkish_Anadolu @ 8.000
3 50% Armenia + 50% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 8.031
4 50% Armenia + 50% Turkish_Anadolu @ 8.095
5 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma + 50% Georgian @ 8.205
6 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 8.535
7 50% Turkish_Anadolu + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 8.587
8 50% Armenia + 50% Turkish_Marmara @ 8.610
9 50% Turkish_Akdeniz + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 8.611
10 50% Assyrian + 50% Turkish_Marmara @ 8.680

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 15 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 16 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 62.11% Georgian + 37.89% Lebanon @ 2.552
2 54.30% Georgian + 45.70% Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.638
3 61.33% Georgian + 38.67% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.644
4 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% Azeri_Jew @ 2.650
5 60.55% Georgian + 39.45% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.655
6 56.64% Georgian + 43.36% Syria @ 2.661
7 62.11% Georgian + 37.89% IranJew @ 2.688
8 63.67% Armenia + 36.33% Georgian @ 2.714
9 69.14% Georgian + 30.86% AlgeriaJew @ 2.715
10 66.80% Georgian + 33.20% LibyaJew @ 2.728

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Georgian_Imereti @ 5.218
2 100% Georgian_Laz @ 6.642
3 100% Armenia @ 11.228
4 100% ossetian @ 13.843
5 100% North_Ossetian @ 14.629
6 100% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 15.510
7 100% Abhkasian @ 15.604
8 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 15.620
9 100% Kurd @ 15.642
10 100% Balkar @ 16.148

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Georgian + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 2.665
2 50% Armenia + 50% Georgian @ 2.788
3 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Georgian @ 2.851
4 50% Assyrian + 50% Georgian @ 3.019
5 50% Georgian + 50% IranJew @ 3.957
6 50% Kurd + 50% Georgian @ 4.461
7 50% Georgian + 50% Azeri @ 4.547
8 50% Abhkasian + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 5.057
9 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Georgian @ 5.081
10 50% Georgian + 50% Turkish_Anadolu @ 5.151

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 16 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 17 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 53.52% Cyprus + 46.48% Georgian @ 0.655
2 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% Cyprus @ 2.233
3 58.20% Cyprus + 41.80% Abhkasian @ 2.708
4 60.55% Lebanese_Christian + 39.45% Georgian @ 3.266
5 59.77% Georgian_Imereti + 40.23% Cyprus @ 3.611
6 51.95% Georgian + 48.05% LibyaJew @ 3.762
7 50.39% LibyaJew + 49.61% Georgian @ 3.945
8 81.64% Georgian_Imereti + 18.36% Mozabite @ 4.260
9 96.48% Armenia + 3.52% Basque1 @ 4.326
10 50.39% Georgian + 49.61% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.354

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 6.310
2 100% Armenia @ 6.371
3 100% Georgian_Laz @ 7.380
4 100% Georgian_Imereti @ 9.260
5 100% Assyrian @ 9.889
6 100% Kurd @ 11.196
7 100% Iranian_Lor @ 12.361
8 100% Azeri_Jew @ 12.825
9 100% Iran @ 13.238
10 100% Azeri @ 13.648

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Cyprus + 50% Georgian @ 2.044
2 50% Georgian + 50% LibyaJew @ 3.915
3 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% Georgian @ 4.316
4 50% Georgian + 50% AlgeriaJew @ 4.399
5 50% Cyprus + 50% Abhkasian @ 4.468
6 50% Abhkasian + 50% LibyaJew @ 5.058
7 50% Georgian + 50% Sephardic_Turkey @ 5.127
8 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Armenia @ 5.491
9 50% Georgian + 50% ItalyJew @ 5.603
10 50% Lebanese_Muslim + 50% Georgian @ 5.819

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 17 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 18 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 76.17% Cyprus + 23.83% Basque1 @ 3.727
2 69.14% Cyprus + 30.86% Spanish @ 4.848
3 66.80% Cyprus + 33.20% Portugese @ 5.038
4 58.98% Cyprus + 41.02% Italian_North @ 5.242
5 65.23% Jordanian + 34.77% Basque1 @ 5.730
6 70.70% Lebanese_Christian + 29.30% Basque1 @ 6.044
7 70.70% Italian + 29.30% Cyprus @ 6.157
8 78.52% LibyaJew + 21.48% Basque1 @ 6.175
9 68.36% Italian + 31.64% Tunisian @ 6.309
10 62.89% Greek + 37.11% Mozabite @ 6.348

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Italian @ 9.809
2 100% Greek @ 10.730
3 100% ItalyJew @ 10.912
4 100% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 11.258
5 100% Agrigento-Sicily @ 11.445
6 100% FranceJew @ 11.680
7 100% AlgeriaJew @ 11.804
8 100% West-Sicily @ 11.858
9 100% Central-Sicily @ 12.540
10 100% Italian_South_Salern @ 12.732

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Cyprus + 50% Tuscan @ 6.832
2 50% Cyprus + 50% Italian_North @ 6.940
3 50% Italian + 50% AlgeriaJew @ 7.363
4 50% Italian_North + 50% Lebanese_Christian @ 7.694
5 50% Italian + 50% Sephardic_Turkey @ 8.091
6 50% Portugese + 50% Jordanian @ 8.319
7 50% Italian_North + 50% Syria @ 8.348
8 50% Italian_North + 50% Lebanon @ 8.378
9 50% Cyprus + 50% Mozabite @ 8.479
10 50% Italian + 50% LibyaJew @ 8.513

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 18 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 19 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 64.45% Canary_Islander + 35.55% Georgian_Imereti @ 1.454
2 60.55% Canary_Islander + 39.45% Georgian_Laz @ 1.702
3 84.77% Sicilian_Trapani + 15.23% Chechen @ 1.904
4 85.55% Sicilian_Trapani + 14.45% Lezgin @ 2.138
5 81.64% Sicilian_Trapani + 18.36% tabassaran @ 2.180
6 83.98% Sicilian_Trapani + 16.02% Nogay @ 2.303
7 69.14% Italian + 30.86% tabassaran @ 2.415
8 86.33% ItalyAbruzzo + 13.67% North_Ossetian @ 2.432
9 86.33% ItalyAbruzzo + 13.67% Chechen @ 2.440
10 82.42% Sicilian_Trapani + 17.58% Balkar @ 2.486

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% GreeceCentral @ 5.215
2 100% GreecePhokaia @ 5.480
3 100% ItalyAbruzzo @ 5.508
4 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 5.989
5 100% Romanian_Jew @ 6.450
6 100% Italian_South_Salern @ 6.562
7 100% Sicilian_Trapani @ 6.662
8 100% GreecePelopenese @ 6.829
9 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 7.042
10 100% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 7.096

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% SouthFrench @ 2.522
2 50% SouthFrench + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 2.580
3 50% SouthFrench + 50% Armenia @ 2.627
4 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% French @ 2.678
5 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Belgian @ 2.753
6 50% French + 50% Armenia @ 2.783
7 50% Assyrian + 50% Belgian @ 2.799
8 50% Assyrian + 50% English_Kent @ 2.799
9 50% Assyrian + 50% Cornwall @ 2.799
10 50% Belgian + 50% Armenia @ 2.800

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 19 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 20 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 80.86% Iraqi + 19.14% tabassaran @ 3.479
2 56.64% Azer_Dagestan + 43.36% Yemen_Jewish @ 3.559
3 82.42% Iraqi + 17.58% Lezgin @ 3.619
4 53.52% Kabardin + 46.48% Yemen_Jewish @ 3.681
5 80.08% Iraqi + 19.92% Yagnobi @ 3.764
6 62.89% Azeri + 37.11% Yemen_Jewish @ 3.892
7 51.17% tabassaran + 48.83% Yemen_Jewish @ 3.905
8 52.73% ossetian + 47.27% Yemen_Jewish @ 3.936
9 51.95% Balkar + 48.05% Yemen_Jewish @ 3.956
10 50.39% Adygei + 49.61% Yemen_Jewish @ 3.980

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Iraqi @ 8.098
2 100% Palestinian @ 11.093
3 100% Jordanian @ 11.474
4 100% IranJew @ 11.637
5 100% Lebanon @ 11.773
6 100% Syria @ 11.833
7 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 12.753
8 100% Azeri_Jew @ 13.268
9 100% Assyrian @ 15.264
10 100% Lebanese_Christian @ 15.759

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Yemen_Jewish + 50% Kabardin @ 4.017
2 50% Yemen_Jewish + 50% tabassaran @ 4.017
3 50% Yemen_Jewish + 50% Adygei @ 4.017
4 50% Yemen_Jewish + 50% Balkar @ 4.138
5 50% Azer_Dagestan + 50% Yemen_Jewish @ 4.173
6 50% Yemen_Jewish + 50% ossetian @ 4.188
7 50% Yemen_Jewish + 50% Nogay @ 4.375
8 50% Kurd + 50% Yemen_Jewish @ 5.385
9 50% Yemen + 50% Kabardin @ 5.446
10 50% Yemen + 50% tabassaran @ 5.446

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 20 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 21 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 82.42% Turkish_Trabzon + 17.58% Indian_S @ 4.744
2 83.98% Turkish_Trabzon + 16.02% Sakilli @ 4.787
3 87.11% Iran + 12.89% Mozabite @ 5.373
4 88.67% Armenia + 11.33% Indian_S @ 5.498
5 88.67% Armenia + 11.33% Indian @ 5.525
6 88.67% Armenia + 11.33% Sakilli @ 5.539
7 88.67% Armenia + 11.33% PakistanJatt @ 5.561
8 88.67% Armenia + 11.33% Pakistan @ 5.594
9 73.83% Armenia + 26.17% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 5.634
10 88.67% Armenia + 11.33% North_Kannadi @ 5.636

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Iranian_Lor @ 8.948
2 100% Azeri @ 9.094
3 100% Kurd @ 9.136
4 100% Iranian_Persian @ 9.577
5 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 9.600
6 100% Iran @ 9.639
7 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 10.300
8 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 10.740
9 100% Armenia @ 11.161
10 100% Azeri_Jew @ 11.193

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Iran + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 6.094
2 50% Iranian_Lor + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 6.325
3 50% Iranian_Lor + 50% Armenia @ 6.753
4 50% Iranian_Persian + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 6.793
5 50% Iranian_Persian + 50% Armenia @ 6.944
6 50% Iran + 50% Armenia @ 6.975
7 50% Kurd + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 7.007
8 50% Iran + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 7.046
9 50% Azeri + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 7.099
10 50% Iranian_Lor + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 7.134

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 21 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 22 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 94.92% Georgian_Laz + 5.08% Saami_WGA @ 1.448
2 95.70% Georgian_Laz + 4.30% Tatar-Mishar @ 1.544
3 94.92% Georgian_Laz + 5.08% Chuvash @ 1.545
4 94.92% Georgian_Laz + 5.08% Tatar_Kryashen @ 1.547
5 95.70% Georgian_Laz + 4.30% Tatar_Volga @ 1.555
6 92.58% Georgian_Laz + 7.42% Turkish_Rumeli @ 1.578
7 94.14% Georgian_Laz + 5.86% Komi @ 1.603
8 65.23% Armenia + 34.77% Adygei @ 1.611
9 92.58% Georgian_Laz + 7.42% Turkish_Deliorman @ 1.625
10 96.48% Georgian_Laz + 3.52% Udmurd @ 1.643

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Georgian_Laz @ 3.000
2 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 6.000
3 100% Armenia @ 7.451
4 100% Azer_Dagestan @ 8.336
5 100% Kurd @ 8.920
6 100% Kabardin @ 9.127
7 100% Georgian_Imereti @ 9.256
8 100% ossetian @ 10.027
9 100% Balkar @ 11.595
10 100% Iranian_Lor @ 12.361

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Armenia + 50% Balkar @ 2.431
2 50% Assyrian + 50% North_Ossetian @ 2.554
3 50% Armenia + 50% ossetian @ 2.753
4 50% Assyrian + 50% Chechen @ 2.895
5 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Adygei @ 2.983
6 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 3.000
7 50% Armenia + 50% Adygei @ 3.065
8 50% Adygei + 50% Assyrian @ 3.205
9 50% GreeceKos + 50% Abhkasian @ 3.281
10 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.445

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 22 -----




Commentary: More normalised Trabzon results, so my original estimation that the North Caucasus/Georgian stuff I got is probably through my granddad.

dosas
02-26-2021, 09:25 AM
Father (Northern Thrace (ie "Eastern Rumelia")):

queue Benny Hill Yakety Sax




----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 1 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 79.30% Austrian + 20.70% Libyan_LIB8 @ 3.011
2 62.89% Canary_Islander + 37.11% UkrainePol @ 3.024
3 84.77% North_European_CEU + 15.23% Yemen_Jewish @ 3.049
4 83.98% English + 16.02% Yemen_Jewish @ 3.081
5 83.20% English + 16.80% Yemen @ 3.083
6 83.98% North_European_CEU + 16.02% Yemen @ 3.135
7 83.20% Orcadian + 16.80% Yemen_Jewish @ 3.163
8 82.42% Orcadian + 17.58% Yemen @ 3.164
9 66.02% Canary_Islander + 33.98% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.175
10 81.64% Danish + 18.36% Yemen_Jewish @ 3.208

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Serbian_Bosnia @ 7.298
2 100% Croat_Bosnia @ 7.304
3 100% Bosnian @ 8.557
4 100% Croat_Herzegovina @ 8.640
5 100% Croat @ 8.640
6 100% Romania_Moldova @ 9.170
7 100% Moldova_Centre @ 9.520
8 100% Moldova_North @ 9.720
9 100% Serbian @ 9.871
10 100% Romania_Bukovina @ 10.230

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Croat_Herzegovina + 50% Canary_Islander @ 4.190
2 50% Romania_Moldova + 50% SouthFrench @ 4.303
3 50% Romania_Bukovina + 50% Portugese @ 4.342
4 50% Romania_Transylvania + 50% SouthFrench @ 4.361
5 50% Hungary + 50% Canary_Islander @ 4.401
6 50% Croat + 50% Canary_Islander @ 4.427
7 50% Romania_Oltenia + 50% SouthFrench @ 4.501
8 50% Italian_North + 50% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 4.559
9 50% Montenegro + 50% SouthFrench @ 4.630
10 50% Slovenian + 50% Canary_Islander @ 4.661

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 1 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 51.95% Austrian + 48.05% Azer_Dagestan @ 0.990
2 54.30% Wales + 45.70% Azer_Dagestan @ 0.993
3 51.95% North_European_CEU + 48.05% Azer_Dagestan @ 1.088
4 51.17% Azer_Dagestan + 48.83% English @ 1.094
5 50.39% Azer_Dagestan + 49.61% North_European_CEU @ 1.149
6 50.39% Norway + 49.61% Kurd @ 1.186
7 50.39% English + 49.61% Azer_Dagestan @ 1.186
8 50.39% Azer_Dagestan + 49.61% Wales @ 1.225
9 50.39% Kurd + 49.61% Norway @ 1.250
10 51.17% Azer_Dagestan + 48.83% Orcadian @ 1.336

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Deliorman @ 6.540
2 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 7.330
3 100% Gagauz @ 7.598
4 100% Moldova_South_Gagauz @ 7.600
5 100% Kosovo_Albanian @ 8.363
6 100% Romania_Muntenia @ 8.630
7 100% Albanian @ 8.658
8 100% Moldova_South @ 8.770
9 100% GreeceThessaly @ 9.877
10 100% GreeceNE @ 9.962

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Wales + 50% Azer_Dagestan @ 1.099
2 50% North_European_CEU + 50% Azer_Dagestan @ 1.119
3 50% English + 50% Azer_Dagestan @ 1.153
4 50% Kurd + 50% Norway @ 1.218
5 50% Orcadian + 50% Azer_Dagestan @ 1.423
6 50% Austrian + 50% Azer_Dagestan @ 1.464
7 50% Azer_Dagestan + 50% GErmanB @ 1.717
8 50% Kurd + 50% SE_Norway @ 1.866
9 50% Kurd + 50% Swedish @ 1.912
10 50% Scottish + 50% Azer_Dagestan @ 1.928

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 3 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 73.05% Cornwall + 26.95% Georgian_Laz @ 1.979
2 69.14% English_Kent + 30.86% Georgian_Laz @ 1.979
3 79.30% Belgian + 20.70% Georgian @ 1.989
4 69.92% English_Kent + 30.08% Georgian_Imereti @ 2.014
5 76.17% Cornwall + 23.83% Armenia @ 2.070
6 76.95% Belgian + 23.05% Abhkasian @ 2.105
7 71.48% French + 28.52% North_Ossetian @ 2.115
8 71.48% French + 28.52% Chechen @ 2.133
9 74.61% Cornwall + 25.39% Georgian_Imereti @ 2.166
10 73.83% Cornwall + 26.17% Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.192

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Montenegro @ 10.545
2 100% Romania_Transylvania @ 10.960
3 100% Romania_Oltenia @ 11.040
4 100% Italian_North @ 11.261
5 100% Macedonian @ 11.312
6 100% Romania @ 11.660
7 100% Romania_Moldova @ 12.140
8 100% Serbian @ 12.261
9 100% Bulgarian @ 12.467
10 100% Romania_Muntenia @ 12.680

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Basque1 + 50% tabassaran @ 3.802
2 50% English_Kent + 50% Turkish_Marmara @ 4.569
3 50% Cornwall + 50% GreeceMacedonia @ 5.556
4 50% GreeceMacedonia + 50% English_Kent @ 5.598
5 50% Cornwall + 50% GreeceCentral @ 5.787
6 50% Cornwall + 50% GreecePelopenese @ 5.839
7 50% Cornwall + 50% Turkish_Rumeli @ 5.870
8 50% English_Kent + 50% Turkish_Ege @ 5.884
9 50% Irish + 50% Turkish_Marmara @ 5.905
10 50% British + 50% Turkish_Marmara @ 5.933

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 3 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 4 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 60.55% Turkish_Rumeli + 39.45% UKIrish @ 1.435
2 62.11% Austrian + 37.89% Turkish_Marmara @ 1.569
3 55.08% Turkish_Rumeli + 44.92% Dutch @ 1.701
4 51.17% Turkish_Rumeli + 48.83% Wales @ 1.715
5 64.45% Austrian + 35.55% Turkish_Ege @ 1.751
6 50.39% English + 49.61% Turkish_Rumeli @ 1.767
7 50.39% Turkish_Rumeli + 49.61% English @ 1.771
8 50.39% Wales + 49.61% Turkish_Rumeli @ 1.776
9 51.95% Turkish_Rumeli + 48.05% Austrian @ 1.793
10 51.95% North_European_CEU + 48.05% Turkish_Rumeli @ 1.796

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Romania_Transylvania @ 3.440
2 100% Romania_Oltenia @ 3.580
3 100% Macedonian @ 3.740
4 100% Romania @ 4.000
5 100% Montenegro @ 4.139
6 100% Bulgarian @ 4.807
7 100% Romania_Muntenia @ 5.020
8 100% Moldova_South @ 5.260
9 100% Kosovo_Albanian @ 5.873
10 100% Moldova_South_Gagauz @ 6.030

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Wales @ 1.761
2 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% English @ 1.766
3 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% North_European_CEU @ 1.817
4 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Austrian @ 1.875
5 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Orcadian @ 2.060
6 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Scottish @ 2.402
7 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Dutch @ 2.429
8 50% Italian_North + 50% Tatar_Volga @ 2.616
9 50% Danish + 50% Turkish_Marmara @ 2.793
10 50% GermanA + 50% Sicilian_Trapani @ 2.821

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 4 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 4 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 60.55% Turkish_Rumeli + 39.45% UKIrish @ 1.435
2 62.11% Austrian + 37.89% Turkish_Marmara @ 1.569
3 55.08% Turkish_Rumeli + 44.92% Dutch @ 1.701
4 51.17% Turkish_Rumeli + 48.83% Wales @ 1.715
5 64.45% Austrian + 35.55% Turkish_Ege @ 1.751
6 50.39% English + 49.61% Turkish_Rumeli @ 1.767
7 50.39% Turkish_Rumeli + 49.61% English @ 1.771
8 50.39% Wales + 49.61% Turkish_Rumeli @ 1.776
9 51.95% Turkish_Rumeli + 48.05% Austrian @ 1.793
10 51.95% North_European_CEU + 48.05% Turkish_Rumeli @ 1.796

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Romania_Transylvania @ 3.440
2 100% Romania_Oltenia @ 3.580
3 100% Macedonian @ 3.740
4 100% Romania @ 4.000
5 100% Montenegro @ 4.139
6 100% Bulgarian @ 4.807
7 100% Romania_Muntenia @ 5.020
8 100% Moldova_South @ 5.260
9 100% Kosovo_Albanian @ 5.873
10 100% Moldova_South_Gagauz @ 6.030

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Wales @ 1.761
2 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% English @ 1.766
3 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% North_European_CEU @ 1.817
4 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Austrian @ 1.875
5 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Orcadian @ 2.060
6 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Scottish @ 2.402
7 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Dutch @ 2.429
8 50% Italian_North + 50% Tatar_Volga @ 2.616
9 50% Danish + 50% Turkish_Marmara @ 2.793
10 50% GermanA + 50% Sicilian_Trapani @ 2.821

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 4 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 5 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 91.80% Serbian + 8.20% North_Kannadi @ 1.765
2 91.80% Serbian + 8.20% Indian @ 1.795
3 93.36% Serbian + 6.64% Indian_S @ 1.838
4 93.36% Serbian + 6.64% Sakilli @ 1.844
5 80.86% Croat_Bosnia + 19.14% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 1.953
6 69.14% GermanA + 30.86% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 1.986
7 80.08% Serbian_Bosnia + 19.92% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 2.010
8 75.39% Croat + 24.61% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 2.043
9 68.36% Slovenian + 31.64% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 2.062
10 70.70% Hungary + 29.30% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 2.112

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Moldova_Centre @ 5.870
2 100% Moldova @ 6.240
3 100% Romania_Muntenia @ 6.290
4 100% Romania_Transylvania @ 6.420
5 100% Romania_Moldova @ 6.480
6 100% Romania @ 6.480
7 100% Serbian @ 6.594
8 100% Bosnian @ 6.618
9 100% Macedonian @ 6.643
10 100% Romania_Oltenia @ 6.710

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Swedish + 50% Turkish_Marmara @ 4.301
2 50% SE_Norway + 50% Turkish_Marmara @ 4.532
3 50% Norway + 50% Turkish_Marmara @ 4.637
4 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% SE_Norway @ 4.705
5 50% SE_Norway + 50% Turkish_Ege @ 4.939
6 50% Croat_Herzegovina + 50% Turkish_Rumeli @ 4.943
7 50% Komi + 50% Tuscan @ 4.958
8 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Orcadian @ 5.001
9 50% Swedish + 50% Turkish_Ege @ 5.011
10 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Swedish @ 5.016

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 5 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 6 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 53.52% Turkish_Anadolu + 46.48% Ukraine @ 2.622
2 55.86% Turkish_Akdeniz + 44.14% Ukraine @ 2.636
3 52.73% Lebanese_Muslim + 47.27% Mordvin @ 2.825
4 54.30% Turkish_Akdeniz + 45.70% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.860
5 55.08% Turkish_Anadolu + 44.92% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.861
6 63.67% Turkish_Akdeniz + 36.33% Belarusian @ 2.924
7 62.11% Turkish_Anadolu + 37.89% Belarusian @ 2.925
8 61.33% Turkish_Anadolu + 38.67% UkrainePol @ 2.943
9 61.33% Turkish_Akdeniz + 38.67% UkrainePol @ 2.943
10 50.39% Mordvin + 49.61% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.967

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 9.040
2 100% Turkish_Deliorman @ 9.680
3 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 11.061
4 100% Romania_Bukovina @ 11.760
5 100% Moldova_North @ 12.270
6 100% Moldova @ 13.080
7 100% Moldova_Centre @ 13.100
8 100% Gagauz @ 13.110
9 100% Moldova_South_Gagauz @ 13.110
10 100% Bosnian @ 13.433

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% Mordvin @ 2.970
2 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Mordvin @ 2.975
3 50% Syria + 50% Mordvin @ 2.993
4 50% IranJew + 50% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.218
5 50% Lebanese_Muslim + 50% Mordvin @ 3.227
6 50% IranJew + 50% Ukraine @ 3.233
7 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.254
8 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Ukraine @ 3.269
9 50% Estonian_Polish + 50% IranJew @ 3.305
10 50% IranJew + 50% Polish @ 3.313

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 6 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 7 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 55.86% Canary_Islander + 44.14% Armenia @ 2.346
2 58.98% Canary_Islander + 41.02% Assyrian @ 2.466
3 50.39% Canary_Islander + 49.61% Azeri_Jew @ 2.565
4 50.39% Azeri_Jew + 49.61% Canary_Islander @ 2.605
5 93.36% Italian_South_Salern + 6.64% Bantu_NE @ 2.639
6 94.14% Agrigento-Sicily + 5.86% Altai @ 2.712
7 94.14% Agrigento-Sicily + 5.86% Mongol @ 2.717
8 94.14% Agrigento-Sicily + 5.86% Buryat @ 2.718
9 94.14% Agrigento-Sicily + 5.86% North_Ossetian @ 2.719
10 93.36% Agrigento-Sicily + 6.64% Karakalpak @ 2.720

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Italian_South_Salern @ 3.742
2 100% West-Sicily @ 3.919
3 100% Agrigento-Sicily @ 4.065
4 100% Sicilian_Trapani @ 4.563
5 100% Greek @ 4.724
6 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 4.782
7 100% Central-Sicily @ 5.030
8 100% Ashkenazy @ 5.402
9 100% Crete @ 5.420
10 100% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 5.586

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Canary_Islander @ 2.585
2 50% Portugese + 50% Assyrian @ 2.817
3 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Portugese @ 2.929
4 50% Canary_Islander + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.115
5 50% Sicilian_Trapani + 50% Greek @ 3.321
6 50% Tuscan + 50% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 3.377
7 50% Turkish_Akdeniz + 50% Italian_North @ 3.381
8 50% Portugese + 50% Armenia @ 3.385
9 50% Portugese + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.417
10 50% GreeceKos + 50% Tuscan @ 3.476

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 7 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 7 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 55.86% Canary_Islander + 44.14% Armenia @ 2.346
2 58.98% Canary_Islander + 41.02% Assyrian @ 2.466
3 50.39% Canary_Islander + 49.61% Azeri_Jew @ 2.565
4 50.39% Azeri_Jew + 49.61% Canary_Islander @ 2.605
5 93.36% Italian_South_Salern + 6.64% Bantu_NE @ 2.639
6 94.14% Agrigento-Sicily + 5.86% Altai @ 2.712
7 94.14% Agrigento-Sicily + 5.86% Mongol @ 2.717
8 94.14% Agrigento-Sicily + 5.86% Buryat @ 2.718
9 94.14% Agrigento-Sicily + 5.86% North_Ossetian @ 2.719
10 93.36% Agrigento-Sicily + 6.64% Karakalpak @ 2.720

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Italian_South_Salern @ 3.742
2 100% West-Sicily @ 3.919
3 100% Agrigento-Sicily @ 4.065
4 100% Sicilian_Trapani @ 4.563
5 100% Greek @ 4.724
6 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 4.782
7 100% Central-Sicily @ 5.030
8 100% Ashkenazy @ 5.402
9 100% Crete @ 5.420
10 100% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 5.586

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Canary_Islander @ 2.585
2 50% Portugese + 50% Assyrian @ 2.817
3 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Portugese @ 2.929
4 50% Canary_Islander + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.115
5 50% Sicilian_Trapani + 50% Greek @ 3.321
6 50% Tuscan + 50% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 3.377
7 50% Turkish_Akdeniz + 50% Italian_North @ 3.381
8 50% Portugese + 50% Armenia @ 3.385
9 50% Portugese + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.417
10 50% GreeceKos + 50% Tuscan @ 3.476

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 7 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 8 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 58.98% German_IL + 41.02% Georgian_Laz @ 1.397
2 53.52% Swedish + 46.48% Georgian_Laz @ 1.412
3 63.67% German_IL + 36.33% Georgian_Imereti @ 1.542
4 60.55% GErmanB + 39.45% Georgian_Imereti @ 1.767
5 51.95% Austrian + 48.05% Kabardin @ 1.809
6 70.70% Slovenian + 29.30% Georgian @ 1.832
7 55.08% Austrian + 44.92% ossetian @ 1.845
8 74.61% Croat + 25.39% Georgian @ 1.864
9 76.17% Montenegro + 23.83% North_Ossetian @ 1.865
10 58.20% GErmanB + 41.80% Georgian_Laz @ 1.894

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 7.610
2 100% Albanian @ 8.938
3 100% Turkish_Deliorman @ 9.000
4 100% Kosovo_Albanian @ 9.437
5 100% Gagauz @ 9.617
6 100% Moldova_South_Gagauz @ 9.620
7 100% GreeceThessaly @ 10.157
8 100% GreeceNE @ 10.242
9 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 10.931
10 100% Romania_Muntenia @ 11.090

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Kabardin + 50% Austrian @ 1.882
2 50% Kabardin + 50% Wales @ 1.996
3 50% Kabardin + 50% GErmanB @ 2.056
4 50% Kabardin + 50% North_European_CEU @ 2.267
5 50% Swedish + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 2.368
6 50% Kabardin + 50% English @ 2.490
7 50% GErmanB + 50% ossetian @ 2.495
8 50% Austrian + 50% Balkar @ 2.570
9 50% Kabardin + 50% Orcadian @ 2.761
10 50% Kabardin + 50% Scottish @ 3.266

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 8 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 9 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 59.77% Cyprus + 40.23% Turkish_Deliorman @ 1.714
2 53.52% Cyprus + 46.48% Turkish_Rumeli @ 1.991
3 76.95% Cyprus + 23.05% Tatar-Mishar @ 2.179
4 74.61% Cyprus + 25.39% Russian_Archangelsk @ 2.210
5 77.73% Cyprus + 22.27% Mordvin @ 2.232
6 80.86% Italian_South_Salern + 19.14% Iraqi @ 2.235
7 74.61% GreecePhokaia + 25.39% Jordanian @ 2.263
8 63.67% GreecePhokaia + 36.33% Palestinian @ 2.293
9 75.39% Cyprus + 24.61% Karelian @ 2.330
10 56.64% Lebanese_Christian + 43.36% Romania_Muntenia @ 2.337

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Crete @ 3.413
2 100% GreeceKos @ 4.210
3 100% Sephardic_Turkey @ 4.528
4 100% FranceJew @ 4.840
5 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 4.948
6 100% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 5.262
7 100% Romanian_Jew @ 5.540
8 100% ItalyJew @ 5.608
9 100% Ashkenazy @ 5.842
10 100% AlgeriaJew @ 5.984

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% GreeceCentral + 50% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.467
2 50% GreeceCentral + 50% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.592
3 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% Albanian @ 2.598
4 50% Lebanese_Muslim + 50% GreecePelopenese @ 2.627
5 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Cyprus @ 2.628
6 50% Syria + 50% Albanian @ 2.629
7 50% GreecePelopenese + 50% Syria @ 2.630
8 50% GreecePelopenese + 50% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.630
9 50% Syria + 50% GreeceThessaly @ 2.632
10 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% GreeceThessaly @ 2.632

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 9 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 10 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 74.61% Syria + 25.39% Chuvash @ 3.141
2 73.05% Syria + 26.95% Udmurd @ 3.263
3 73.83% Syria + 26.17% Komi @ 3.704
4 69.92% Syria + 30.08% Tatar_Volga @ 3.723
5 73.83% Assyrian + 26.17% RussianPinega @ 3.837
6 77.73% Syria + 22.27% Saami_WGA @ 3.901
7 73.83% Syria + 26.17% Tatar-Mishar @ 3.938
8 70.70% Assyrian + 29.30% Tatar_Kryashen @ 4.072
9 70.70% Assyrian + 29.30% Tatar-Mishar @ 4.103
10 73.05% Assyrian + 26.95% Vepsa @ 4.183

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 7.750
2 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 8.450
3 100% Turkish_Ege @ 9.740
4 100% Azeri @ 10.332
5 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 11.320
6 100% Iranian_Lor @ 12.311
7 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 12.330
8 100% Lebanese_Muslim @ 12.480
9 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 12.741
10 100% Azeri_Jew @ 12.945

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% IranJew @ 5.440
2 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Assyrian @ 5.575
3 50% Palestinian + 50% tabassaran @ 5.665
4 50% IranJew + 50% Turkish_Deliorman @ 5.760
5 50% GreeceMacedonia + 50% Iraqi @ 5.843
6 50% Iraqi + 50% GreeceCentral @ 5.852
7 50% Turkish_Deliorman + 50% Assyrian @ 5.895
8 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Azeri_Jew @ 5.961
9 50% Ashkenazy + 50% Kurd @ 6.132
10 50% Azeri + 50% Crete @ 6.165

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 10 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 11 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 75.39% Croat_Herzegovina + 24.61% Turkish_Rumeli @ 2.222
2 51.17% Turkish_Rumeli + 48.83% GErmanB @ 2.403
3 54.30% German_IL + 45.70% Turkish_Rumeli @ 2.408
4 89.45% Croat_Bosnia + 10.55% UZB_Turkmen @ 2.445
5 84.77% Croat_Herzegovina + 15.23% Turkish_Marmara @ 2.469
6 57.42% Czech + 42.58% Turkish_Rumeli @ 2.469
7 88.67% Serbian_Bosnia + 11.33% UZB_Turkmen @ 2.477
8 97.27% Moldova_Centre + 2.73% Thai @ 2.525
9 85.55% Croat + 14.45% UZB_Turkmen @ 2.555
10 79.30% Hungary + 20.70% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 2.565

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Moldova_Centre @ 3.090
2 100% Romania_Transylvania @ 3.480
3 100% Romania_Moldova @ 3.540
4 100% Serbian @ 3.654
5 100% Romania_Oltenia @ 3.770
6 100% Moldova @ 3.790
7 100% Montenegro @ 3.999
8 100% Romania @ 4.240
9 100% Bosnian @ 5.058
10 100% Bulgarian @ 5.348

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% GErmanB + 50% Turkish_Rumeli @ 2.564
2 50% Turkish_Deliorman + 50% GermanA @ 2.763
3 50% Turkish_Deliorman + 50% German_IL @ 2.892
4 50% Sicilian_Siracuse + 50% Russia_Tver @ 2.907
5 50% Turkish_Deliorman + 50% GErmanB @ 2.910
6 50% Romania_Transylvania + 50% Bosnian @ 2.950
7 50% Romania_Transylvania + 50% Croat_Herzegovina @ 2.958
8 50% Romania + 50% Bosnian @ 2.980
9 50% Romania + 50% Croat_Herzegovina @ 2.988
10 50% Romania_Moldova + 50% Bosnian @ 3.034

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 11 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 12 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 60.55% Austrian + 39.45% Palestinian @ 2.068
2 58.98% German_IL + 41.02% Palestinian @ 2.182
3 58.20% GErmanB + 41.80% Palestinian @ 2.190
4 52.73% Norway + 47.27% Palestinian @ 2.471
5 52.73% SE_Norway + 47.27% Palestinian @ 2.495
6 53.52% Swedish + 46.48% Palestinian @ 2.496
7 50.39% Palestinian + 49.61% Swedish @ 2.695
8 88.67% Romania_Oltenia + 11.33% Yemen_Jewish @ 2.764
9 55.08% Danish + 44.92% Palestinian @ 2.853
10 59.77% Wales + 40.23% Palestinian @ 2.891

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Kosovo_Albanian @ 7.153
2 100% Moldova_South_Gagauz @ 7.180
3 100% Gagauz @ 7.183
4 100% Moldova_South @ 7.490
5 100% Bulgarian @ 7.560
6 100% GreeceThessaly @ 8.006
7 100% Romania_Oltenia @ 8.610
8 100% Romania_Muntenia @ 8.640
9 100% Romania @ 8.880
10 100% Albanian @ 8.920

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Swedish + 50% Palestinian @ 2.676
2 50% Norway + 50% Palestinian @ 3.177
3 50% SE_Norway + 50% Palestinian @ 3.572
4 50% Hungary + 50% LibyaJew @ 3.968
5 50% Slovakia + 50% LibyaJew @ 4.054
6 50% Swedish + 50% Jordanian @ 4.056
7 50% Norway + 50% Jordanian @ 4.203
8 50% SE_Norway + 50% Jordanian @ 4.316
9 50% East-Sicily18 + 50% Romania_Bukovina @ 4.425
10 50% Hungary + 50% AlgeriaJew @ 4.443

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 12 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 13 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 50.39% East-Sicily18 + 49.61% Turkish_Deliorman @ 1.466
2 61.33% Cyprus + 38.67% Finn @ 1.469
3 50.39% Turkish_Deliorman + 49.61% East-Sicily18 @ 1.551
4 83.20% Sicilian_Siracuse + 16.80% Mordvin @ 1.718
5 84.77% Sicilian_Siracuse + 15.23% Russia_Kostroma @ 1.732
6 82.42% Italian_South_Salern + 17.58% North_Russian @ 1.736
7 85.55% Sicilian_Siracuse + 14.45% Vepsa @ 1.746
8 86.33% Sicilian_Siracuse + 13.67% Russian_Archangelsk @ 1.754
9 80.08% Agrigento-Sicily + 19.92% North_Russian @ 1.775
10 85.55% Sicilian_Siracuse + 14.45% RussianPinega @ 1.780

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% GreecePelopenese @ 2.776
2 100% GreeceNE @ 2.958
3 100% GreeceThessaly @ 3.043
4 100% GreeceCentral @ 3.605
5 100% Albanian @ 4.262
6 100% Kosovo_Albanian @ 4.557
7 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 5.590
8 100% ItalyAbruzzo @ 5.814
9 100% Romanian_Jew @ 5.837
10 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 6.936

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Turkish_Deliorman + 50% East-Sicily18 @ 1.505
2 50% Cyprus + 50% GermanA @ 1.824
3 50% Lebanese_Christian + 50% GermanA @ 2.001
4 50% GreeceThessaly + 50% Romanian_Jew @ 2.185
5 50% Kosovo_Albanian + 50% Romanian_Jew @ 2.248
6 50% Albanian + 50% Romanian_Jew @ 2.315
7 50% FranceJew + 50% Romania_Moldova @ 2.335
8 50% ItalyJew + 50% Romania_Moldova @ 2.342
9 50% ItalyJew + 50% Moldova_Centre @ 2.347
10 50% Sephardic_Turkey + 50% Moldova_North @ 2.358

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 13 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 14 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 79.30% Orcadian + 20.70% Chechen @ 2.678
2 78.52% Orcadian + 21.48% Lezgin @ 2.679
3 74.61% Danish + 25.39% Lezgin @ 2.724
4 74.61% Danish + 25.39% Adygei @ 2.724
5 73.05% Danish + 26.95% Chechen @ 2.725
6 66.80% Swedish + 33.20% Balkar @ 2.748
7 76.95% Scottish + 23.05% Lezgin @ 2.751
8 66.80% Norway + 33.20% Balkar @ 2.755
9 67.58% SE_Norway + 32.42% Balkar @ 2.756
10 79.30% Swedish + 20.70% Abhkasian @ 2.780

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Croat @ 10.922
2 100% Slovenian @ 11.062
3 100% Croat_Herzegovina @ 11.080
4 100% Moldova_North @ 11.430
5 100% Croat_Bosnia @ 12.082
6 100% Serbian_Bosnia @ 12.278
7 100% Bosnian @ 12.318
8 100% Moldova_Centre @ 12.420
9 100% Hungary @ 12.813
10 100% Ukrainian_Tsherkassy @ 12.880

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% SE_Norway + 50% tabassaran @ 5.468
2 50% Norway + 50% tabassaran @ 5.510
3 50% Danish + 50% tabassaran @ 6.402
4 50% Iceland + 50% tabassaran @ 6.957
5 50% Swedish + 50% Kabardin @ 7.144
6 50% SW_Scot + 50% tabassaran @ 7.182
7 50% Swedish + 50% tabassaran @ 7.196
8 50% GErmanB + 50% tabassaran @ 7.371
9 50% Turkish_Deliorman + 50% Cornwall @ 7.411
10 50% Swedish + 50% Nogay @ 7.487

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 14 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 15 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 77.73% Swedish + 22.27% Yemen_Jewish @ 2.589
2 77.73% Norway + 22.27% Yemen_Jewish @ 2.734
3 76.95% Norway + 23.05% Yemen @ 2.963
4 77.73% SE_Norway + 22.27% Yemen_Jewish @ 3.023
5 77.73% Swedish + 22.27% Yemen @ 3.072
6 76.95% SE_Norway + 23.05% Yemen @ 3.173
7 80.08% Hungary + 19.92% Mozabite @ 3.675
8 84.77% GErmanB + 15.23% Yemen_Jewish @ 3.856
9 65.23% Canary_Islander + 34.77% UkrainePol @ 3.860
10 84.77% GErmanB + 15.23% Yemen @ 4.038

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Croat_Herzegovina @ 8.410
2 100% Hungary @ 8.533
3 100% Croat @ 8.883
4 100% Slovenian @ 9.053
5 100% Serbian_Bosnia @ 9.600
6 100% Croat_Bosnia @ 9.739
7 100% Slovakia @ 10.302
8 100% Bosnian @ 10.526
9 100% Moldova_North @ 10.730
10 100% Romania_Bukovina @ 11.290

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Canary_Islander + 50% UkrainePol @ 5.145
2 50% Canary_Islander + 50% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.211
3 50% Canary_Islander + 50% Ukraine @ 5.460
4 50% Canary_Islander + 50% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 5.569
5 50% Portugese + 50% UkrainePol @ 5.906
6 50% Spanish + 50% UkrainePol @ 5.965
7 50% Canary_Islander + 50% Belarusian @ 6.050
8 50% Tuscan + 50% Lithuanian @ 6.058
9 50% Italian_North + 50% Belarusian @ 6.105
10 50% Romania_Bukovina + 50% SouthFrench @ 6.173

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 15 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 16 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 86.33% SouthFrench + 13.67% Thai @ 3.611
2 87.89% SouthFrench + 12.11% Phillipino @ 4.060
3 87.89% SouthFrench + 12.11% Khin_Vietnam @ 4.192
4 83.98% SouthFrench + 16.02% Uygur @ 4.264
5 72.27% SouthFrench + 27.73% Turkmen @ 4.547
6 86.33% SouthFrench + 13.67% Kirghiz_Pamir @ 4.670
7 86.33% SouthFrench + 13.67% Kirghiz @ 4.717
8 73.83% SouthFrench + 26.17% Uzbek @ 4.742
9 81.64% SouthFrench + 18.36% Karakalpak @ 4.761
10 89.45% SouthFrench + 10.55% Dai @ 4.804

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Canary_Islander @ 5.780
2 100% Belgian @ 9.147
3 100% Italian_North @ 9.673
4 100% SouthFrench @ 9.957
5 100% Montenegro @ 10.485
6 100% Romania_Oltenia @ 10.800
7 100% Tuscan @ 10.820
8 100% Romania_Transylvania @ 10.900
9 100% French @ 11.281
10 100% Macedonian @ 11.462

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Tuscan + 50% Iceland @ 5.445
2 50% Romania_Oltenia + 50% Spanish @ 5.572
3 50% SouthFrench + 50% Romania_Muntenia @ 5.596
4 50% Moldova_Centre + 50% Spanish @ 5.597
5 50% Canary_Islander + 50% Romania_Oltenia @ 5.600
6 50% Romania_Muntenia + 50% Spanish @ 5.602
7 50% Romania_Transylvania + 50% Spanish @ 5.602
8 50% SouthFrench + 50% Romania_Oltenia @ 5.609
9 50% Moldova_North + 50% Spanish @ 5.614
10 50% Portugese + 50% Moldova_North @ 5.621

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 16 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 17 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 74.61% Iceland + 25.39% Lebanon @ 3.779
2 73.05% Iceland + 26.95% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.802
3 59.77% Iceland + 40.23% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 3.803
4 62.89% Iceland + 37.11% Ashkenazy @ 3.838
5 50.39% Sicilian_Siracuse + 49.61% Iceland @ 3.853
6 76.17% Iceland + 23.83% Jordanian @ 3.864
7 76.17% Iceland + 23.83% Palestinian @ 3.864
8 73.05% Iceland + 26.95% IranJew @ 3.866
9 74.61% Iceland + 25.39% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.870
10 75.39% Iceland + 24.61% Iraqi @ 3.873

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Montenegro @ 4.929
2 100% Romania_Oltenia @ 5.180
3 100% Romania_Transylvania @ 5.280
4 100% Macedonian @ 5.632
5 100% Romania @ 5.980
6 100% Bulgarian @ 6.787
7 100% Romania_Moldova @ 7.020
8 100% Romania_Muntenia @ 7.110
9 100% Serbian @ 7.201
10 100% Moldova_South @ 7.240

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Iceland + 50% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 3.851
2 50% Iceland + 50% Ashkenazy @ 3.920
3 50% GreeceCentral + 50% Iceland @ 3.971
4 50% Iceland + 50% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 4.038
5 50% Iceland + 50% Sicilian_Trapani @ 4.044
6 50% Iceland + 50% FranceJew @ 4.048
7 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Iceland @ 4.055
8 50% Iceland + 50% ItalyJew @ 4.078
9 50% Iceland + 50% Central-Sicily @ 4.085
10 50% GreecePelopenese + 50% Iceland @ 4.087

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 17 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 18 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 57.42% Austrian + 42.58% Armenia @ 1.312
2 53.52% Austrian + 46.48% Turkish_Trabzon @ 1.432
3 55.86% GErmanB + 44.14% Armenia @ 1.526
4 83.20% Kosovo_Albanian + 16.80% Chechen @ 1.550
5 51.17% Norway + 48.83% Armenia @ 1.552
6 50.39% Armenia + 49.61% Norway @ 1.580
7 58.20% Wales + 41.80% Armenia @ 1.627
8 54.30% Iceland + 45.70% Armenia @ 1.657
9 58.20% North_European_CEU + 41.80% Armenia @ 1.774
10 51.95% GErmanB + 48.05% Turkish_Trabzon @ 1.794

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 6.000
2 100% GreeceNE @ 6.728
3 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 6.791
4 100% Albanian @ 6.880
5 100% GreeceCentral @ 7.252
6 100% GreecePelopenese @ 7.357
7 100% GreeceThessaly @ 7.794
8 100% Turkish_Deliorman @ 8.210
9 100% Kosovo_Albanian @ 8.647
10 100% GreecePhokaia @ 8.650

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Armenia + 50% Norway @ 1.573
2 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% GErmanB @ 1.835
3 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Iceland @ 1.932
4 50% Armenia + 50% Swedish @ 2.130
5 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Danish @ 2.146
6 50% Armenia + 50% SE_Norway @ 2.220
7 50% Orcadian + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.375
8 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% SE_Norway @ 2.501
9 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Norway @ 2.622
10 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Swedish @ 2.625

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 18 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 19 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 98.83% Croat_Herzegovina + 1.17% Bantu_NE @ 1.928
2 98.83% Croat_Herzegovina + 1.17% Bantu_SE @ 1.928
3 98.83% Croat_Herzegovina + 1.17% Bantu_SW @ 1.928
4 98.83% Croat_Herzegovina + 1.17% Yoruba @ 1.928
5 98.05% Croat + 1.95% Bantu_NE @ 2.118
6 98.05% Croat + 1.95% Bantu_SE @ 2.118
7 98.05% Croat + 1.95% Bantu_SW @ 2.118
8 98.05% Croat + 1.95% Yoruba @ 2.118
9 98.05% Croat_Herzegovina + 1.95% Ethiopian_Jew @ 2.293
10 91.80% Slovenian + 8.20% Iranian_Bandari @ 2.320

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Moldova_North @ 2.550
2 100% Croat_Herzegovina @ 2.670
3 100% Croat_Bosnia @ 2.740
4 100% Croat @ 2.757
5 100% Serbian_Bosnia @ 2.788
6 100% Bosnian @ 3.442
7 100% Slovenian @ 3.762
8 100% Romania_Bukovina @ 4.080
9 100% Hungary @ 5.153
10 100% Moldova_Centre @ 5.410

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Moldova_North + 50% Moldova_North @ 2.550
2 50% Moldova_North + 50% Croat_Herzegovina @ 2.580
3 50% Moldova_South + 50% Belarusian_west-Polesye @ 2.596
4 50% Moldova_North + 50% Czech @ 2.601
5 50% Moldova_North + 50% GermanA @ 2.615
6 50% Moldova_South + 50% Belarusian_east-Polesye @ 2.623
7 50% Moldova_North + 50% Croat @ 2.623
8 50% Moldova_North + 50% Hungary @ 2.624
9 50% Moldova_North + 50% Slovenian @ 2.625
10 50% Moldova_North + 50% Serbian_Bosnia @ 2.635

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 19 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 20 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 66.02% UKIrish + 33.98% Iranian_Bandari @ 5.596
2 54.30% North_European_CEU + 45.70% tabassaran @ 5.712
3 53.52% English + 46.48% tabassaran @ 5.730
4 67.58% Iceland + 32.42% Iranian_Bandari @ 5.778
5 54.30% Orcadian + 45.70% tabassaran @ 5.784
6 66.80% North_European_CEU + 33.20% Tajik_Pamir @ 5.792
7 50.39% Danish + 49.61% tabassaran @ 5.801
8 70.70% North_European_CEU + 29.30% Yagnobi @ 5.801
9 71.48% Scottish + 28.52% Iranian_Bandari @ 5.801
10 70.70% SE_Norway + 29.30% Iran @ 5.802

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Croat @ 10.922
2 100% Croat_Herzegovina @ 11.080
3 100% Moldova_North @ 11.430
4 100% Croat_Bosnia @ 12.082
5 100% Serbian_Bosnia @ 12.278
6 100% Bosnian @ 12.318
7 100% Slovenian @ 12.358
8 100% Moldova_Centre @ 12.420
9 100% Tatar_Kryashen @ 12.713
10 100% Tatar_Volga @ 13.066

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Danish + 50% tabassaran @ 5.799
2 50% English + 50% Turkmen @ 5.829
3 50% Swedish + 50% tabassaran @ 5.837
4 50% British + 50% tabassaran @ 5.839
5 50% Norway + 50% tabassaran @ 5.843
6 50% SE_Norway + 50% tabassaran @ 5.843
7 50% SW_Scot + 50% tabassaran @ 5.843
8 50% English + 50% Yagnobi @ 5.863
9 50% Irish + 50% tabassaran @ 5.870
10 50% Danish + 50% Turkmen @ 5.904

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 20 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 21 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 66.02% Abhkasian + 33.98% Spanish @ 0.771
2 65.23% Abhkasian + 34.77% Portugese @ 1.036
3 60.55% Abhkasian + 39.45% Italian_North @ 1.074
4 65.23% Georgian + 34.77% SouthFrench @ 1.880
5 61.33% Georgian + 38.67% Canary_Islander @ 2.051
6 52.73% Georgian + 47.27% Kosovo_Albanian @ 2.332
7 51.17% Georgian + 48.83% Albanian @ 2.486
8 66.02% Abhkasian + 33.98% French @ 2.551
9 65.23% Georgian + 34.77% French @ 2.609
10 80.08% Georgian_Imereti + 19.92% Basque1 @ 2.641

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Georgian_Laz @ 10.350
2 100% Azeri @ 11.410
3 100% Georgian_Imereti @ 12.230
4 100% ossetian @ 12.653
5 100% Balkar @ 13.448
6 100% Kabardin @ 13.610
7 100% Azer_Dagestan @ 13.652
8 100% tabassaran @ 13.713
9 100% Turkish_Trabzon @ 13.900
10 100% Iranian_Lor @ 13.978

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Georgian + 50% GreeceNE @ 3.185
2 50% Georgian + 50% Albanian @ 3.228
3 50% Georgian + 50% GreeceThessaly @ 3.685
4 50% Georgian + 50% GreeceCentral @ 3.761
5 50% Georgian + 50% GreecePelopenese @ 3.813
6 50% Georgian + 50% Kosovo_Albanian @ 4.111
7 50% Georgian + 50% Sicilian_Trapani @ 4.303
8 50% Georgian + 50% ItalyAbruzzo @ 4.420
9 50% GreecePhokaia + 50% Georgian @ 4.460
10 50% Georgian + 50% GreeceMacedonia @ 4.784

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 21 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 22 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 65.23% Belgian + 34.77% PakistanJatt @ 1.228
2 65.23% English_Kent + 34.77% Pathan @ 2.220
3 62.89% Irish + 37.11% Pathan @ 2.334
4 66.80% Belgian + 33.20% Pakistan @ 2.353
5 62.89% British + 37.11% Pathan @ 2.414
6 68.36% Cornwall + 31.64% Pakistan @ 2.616
7 63.67% English_Kent + 36.33% PakistanJatt @ 2.695
8 63.67% Cornwall + 36.33% PakistanJatt @ 2.695
9 65.23% UKIrish + 34.77% Pakistan @ 2.752
10 66.80% Dutch + 33.20% Pakistan @ 2.771

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 15.290
2 100% Cornwall @ 16.079
3 100% Bosnian @ 16.141
4 100% Croat_Herzegovina @ 16.155
5 100% Orcadian @ 16.272
6 100% Scottish @ 16.358
7 100% SW_Scot @ 16.367
8 100% North_European_CEU @ 16.376
9 100% Irish @ 16.381
10 100% Turkish_Deliorman @ 16.390

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma + 50% English_Kent @ 4.445
2 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma + 50% SE_Norway @ 4.445
3 50% Cornwall + 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 4.446
4 50% SW_Scot + 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 4.446
5 50% Irish + 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 4.535
6 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma + 50% Norway @ 4.558
7 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma + 50% Iceland @ 4.768
8 50% British + 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma @ 4.868
9 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma + 50% UKIrish @ 4.961
10 50% Romania_Gypsy/Roma + 50% Swedish @ 5.274

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 22 -----




Commentary: This is madness … two chromosomes show Balkan-Roma affinities, then there is every other ethnic group under the sun in there, Greece, the Balkans, the Levant, Anatolia and Turkey, Caucasus (both North and South), Western Europe (Chr. 14 is predominately Orcadian and chr. 17 Icelandic, rofl), SSA, Thailand and the Phillipines, lol.

I dare you to make sense of these results and try to find another Greek person as mixed as him.

lockdownboredom
02-26-2021, 10:19 AM
So those analyses, Dosas, are only doable with the PRO version of Admix Studio?

dosas
02-26-2021, 10:20 AM
So those analyses, Dosas, are only doable with the PRO version of Admix Studio?


Yes, but it's cheap. 15eu or so, if I remember correctly, a steal really (not an advertisement shill).

peloponnesian
02-26-2021, 11:08 AM
Inspired by XDD's post, I did a CHR. run on the PRO version of Admix. Studio.

The calculator was Eurogenes K10 (the latest, with the highest SNP count) and the raw file I used was from the WGS extraction tool.

Cool, you convinced me to upgrade to PRO. Seems like a decent time-waster :D

Do you think running a calculator on specific regions of the chromosome, for example a segment where you have matches with a specific ethnicity, is a valid experiment? I guess it depends on how many SNPs are tested by the calc at the specific segment, right?

bovefex
02-26-2021, 11:55 AM
Yes, but it's cheap. 15eu or so, if I remember correctly, a steal really (not an advertisement shill).

Wow, that looks sick. Do you think it can reliable be used to find out if a small ancestry on 23andme really is true?

dosas
02-26-2021, 12:58 PM
Wow, that looks sick. Do you think it can reliable be used to find out if a small ancestry on 23andme really is true?


I don't know, you should try and tell us.

bovefex
02-26-2021, 01:01 PM
I don't know, you should try and tell us.

I very well might someday, but right now I am kind of burnt-out on genetic experiments :P

XXD
02-26-2021, 04:05 PM
Father (Northern Thrace (ie "Eastern Rumelia")):

queue Benny Hill Yakety Sax

Commentary: This is madness … two chromosomes show Balkan-Roma affinities, then there is every other ethnic group under the sun in there, Greece, the Balkans, the Levant, Anatolia and Turkey, Caucasus (both North and South), Western Europe (Chr. 14 is predominately Orcadian and chr. 17 Icelandic, rofl), SSA, Thailand and the Phillipines, lol.

I dare you to make sense of these results and try to find another Greek person as mixed as him.

I think I might be a contender for your dad!

I just updated to PRO. Dude, what an incredible app!!! Thank for bringing it to our attention!

So, my chromosome analysis (I only include exotic groups):

Chromosome 1, 7: 18% Cornwall and 33% Austrian, respectively.

Chromosomes 2, 4, 13 : North African (Canary Islands, Libyan, etc.) and Caucasus admixture

Chromosome 5: I share segments with Roma on this chromosome in 23andme, although I score 0% South Asian there. Admixture Studio Pro lists 28% "Iranian Bandari", and with 3 populations approximation I score 33% Romanian Roma. So I guess this is the Iranian component of Roma admixture, and shows that this technique can find out minor admixture!

Chromosomes 8, 10, 11: 33% Assyrian/Armenian/Trabzon (probably my Anatolian great grandma).

Chromosome 9: Georgian Imereti (33%)

Chromosome 14: This is where I score most of my Roma and South Asian admixture on 23andme and Gedmatch. Here, I score 50% Iranian Mazandarani/Tajik and 50% Dutch/Austrian/Irish. So it seems to support Roma admixture!

Chromosome 15: 80% Basque (under all models)

Chromosome 21: 33% Kazakh/Saami/Norway. Probably something to do with Tatar admixture.

Chromosome 22: 25% East Asian (Nogay/Kumyk like admixture). Same, likely Tatar.

How do I download the .txt file for all chromosomes as a single file, so I can post it here?

Markos
02-26-2021, 04:08 PM
Seems like a decent time-waster :D


Just what we all need, right? :lol:

Markos
02-26-2021, 04:12 PM
After his third try, my brother finally received his 23andMe results! They have already been phased with our mother:

https://i.ibb.co/Fxnr36B/Screen-Shot-2021-02-26-at-11-11-26-AM.png
https://i.ibb.co/QNVrLkB/Screen-Shot-2021-02-26-at-11-12-12-AM.png

XXD
02-26-2021, 05:04 PM
Father (Northern Thrace (ie "Eastern Rumelia")):

queue Benny Hill Yakety Sax

Commentary: This is madness … two chromosomes show Balkan-Roma affinities, then there is every other ethnic group under the sun in there, Greece, the Balkans, the Levant, Anatolia and Turkey, Caucasus (both North and South), Western Europe (Chr. 14 is predominately Orcadian and chr. 17 Icelandic, rofl), SSA, Thailand and the Phillipines, lol.

I dare you to make sense of these results and try to find another Greek person as mixed as him.

Here is my file. I guess your dad and I might be unusually mixed Greeks!



----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 1 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 82.42% Turkish_Rumeli + 17.58% Cornwall @ 4.423
2 84.77% Turkish_Rumeli + 15.23% English_Kent @ 4.504
3 51.95% Austrian + 48.05% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 4.593
4 57.42% Turkish_Marmara + 42.58% Austrian @ 4.595
5 82.42% Turkish_Rumeli + 17.58% Belgian @ 4.604
6 82.42% Turkish_Rumeli + 17.58% French @ 4.671
7 84.77% Turkish_Rumeli + 15.23% Irish @ 4.682
8 84.77% Turkish_Rumeli + 15.23% British @ 4.719
9 50.39% Turkish_Akdeniz + 49.61% Austrian @ 4.737
10 51.17% Turkish_Akdeniz + 48.83% GErmanB @ 4.738

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Albanian @ 7.423
2 100% Kosovo_Albanian @ 7.728
3 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 7.972
4 100% GreeceThessaly @ 8.014
5 100% GreeceNE @ 8.238
6 100% Turkish_Deliorman @ 8.371
7 100% Moldova_South_Gagauz @ 8.742
8 100% Gagauz @ 8.744
9 100% GreecePelopenese @ 9.278
10 100% Moldova_South @ 9.502

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Austrian + 50% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 4.686
2 50% North_European_CEU + 50% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 4.796
3 50% Turkish_Akdeniz + 50% GErmanB @ 4.798
4 50% Wales + 50% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 4.819
5 50% Turkish_Akdeniz + 50% English @ 4.861
6 50% Norway + 50% IranJew @ 4.895
7 50% Turkish_Akdeniz + 50% Orcadian @ 5.032
8 50% SE_Norway + 50% IranJew @ 5.033
9 50% Turkish_Anadolu + 50% GErmanB @ 5.324
10 50% English + 50% Turkish_Anadolu @ 5.334

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 1 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 60.55% Canary_Islander + 39.45% Georgian_Imereti @ 5.426
2 56.64% Canary_Islander + 43.36% Georgian_Laz @ 5.656
3 67.58% Canary_Islander + 32.42% Abhkasian @ 6.102
4 50.39% Portugese + 49.61% Georgian_Laz @ 6.144
5 50.39% Georgian_Laz + 49.61% Portugese @ 6.148
6 70.70% Tuscan + 29.30% North_Ossetian @ 6.169
7 64.45% Tuscan + 35.55% ossetian @ 6.218
8 76.17% Tuscan + 23.83% Abhkasian @ 6.421
9 64.45% Tuscan + 35.55% Balkar @ 6.432
10 67.58% Canary_Islander + 32.42% Georgian @ 6.488

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% GreecePhokaia @ 10.964
2 100% Italian_South_Salern @ 11.351
3 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 11.474
4 100% Greek @ 11.633
5 100% ItalyAbruzzo @ 11.974
6 100% Agrigento-Sicily @ 12.116
7 100% Sicilian_Trapani @ 12.222
8 100% West-Sicily @ 12.223
9 100% GreeceCentral @ 12.475
10 100% Crete @ 13.004

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Portugese + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 6.139
2 50% Armenia + 50% French @ 6.693
3 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Spanish @ 6.725
4 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% SouthFrench @ 6.957
5 50% Canary_Islander + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 7.086
6 50% Armenia + 50% SouthFrench @ 7.092
7 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% French @ 7.296
8 50% Canary_Islander + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 7.366
9 50% Armenia + 50% Belgian @ 7.369
10 50% Assyrian + 50% Cornwall @ 7.473

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 2 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 3 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 66.02% Assyrian + 33.98% Ukrainian_Tsherkassy @ 6.606
2 69.14% Assyrian + 30.86% Russia_Tver @ 6.610
3 71.48% Assyrian + 28.52% Estonian @ 6.638
4 68.36% Assyrian + 31.64% RussianKursk @ 6.648
5 76.95% Azeri_Jew + 23.05% Ukraine @ 6.652
6 69.14% Assyrian + 30.86% Russia_Kostroma @ 6.657
7 69.14% Assyrian + 30.86% Estonian_Polish @ 6.683
8 77.73% Azeri_Jew + 22.27% Mordvin @ 6.687
9 79.30% Azeri_Jew + 20.70% Latvian @ 6.708
10 67.58% Assyrian + 32.42% RussianVoronez @ 6.710

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Ege @ 12.218
2 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 13.268
3 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 13.803
4 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 14.249
5 100% Crete @ 15.387
6 100% GreeceKos @ 15.651
7 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 15.810
8 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 16.690
9 100% GreecePhokaia @ 16.766
10 100% Azeri @ 17.147

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Turkish_Deliorman + 50% Assyrian @ 8.176
2 50% Turkish_Deliorman + 50% Armenia @ 8.333
3 50% GreeceMacedonia + 50% Azeri @ 8.690
4 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Turkish_Deliorman @ 8.692
5 50% tabassaran + 50% LibyaJew @ 8.768
6 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Turkish_Deliorman @ 8.787
7 50% Azer_Dagestan + 50% Ashkenazy @ 8.907
8 50% Romanian_Jew + 50% Azer_Dagestan @ 8.914
9 50% Moldova_South_Gagauz + 50% Armenia @ 8.935
10 50% Gagauz + 50% Armenia @ 8.935

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 3 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 4 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 76.17% Turkish_Rumeli + 23.83% AlgeriaJew @ 3.294
2 79.30% Turkish_Rumeli + 20.70% LibyaJew @ 3.334
3 71.48% Turkish_Rumeli + 28.52% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 3.345
4 69.92% Turkish_Rumeli + 30.08% FranceJew @ 3.386
5 73.83% Turkish_Rumeli + 26.17% ItalyJew @ 3.437
6 76.17% FranceJew + 23.83% Udmurd @ 3.447
7 74.61% Turkish_Rumeli + 25.39% Sephardic_Turkey @ 3.474
8 58.20% Turkish_Rumeli + 41.80% Ashkenazy @ 3.474
9 50.39% Ashkenazy + 49.61% Turkish_Rumeli @ 3.653
10 73.05% Sephardic_Turkey + 26.95% Komi @ 3.682

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 6.656
2 100% Romanian_Jew @ 6.802
3 100% GreecePelopenese @ 7.095
4 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 7.265
5 100% GreeceCentral @ 7.920
6 100% Ashkenazy @ 8.567
7 100% GreecePhokaia @ 8.588
8 100% GreeceNE @ 9.242
9 100% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 9.751
10 100% GreeceThessaly @ 9.770

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Ashkenazy @ 3.637
2 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Romanian_Jew @ 3.857
3 50% Turkish_Deliorman + 50% FranceJew @ 4.301
4 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 4.351
5 50% Turkish_Deliorman + 50% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 4.402
6 50% Turkish_Deliorman + 50% Sephardic_Turkey @ 4.559
7 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Central-Sicily @ 4.598
8 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% East-Sicily18 @ 4.682
9 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% GreecePhokaia @ 4.745
10 50% Turkish_Deliorman + 50% ItalyJew @ 4.824

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 4 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 5 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 71.48% Romania_Bukovina + 28.52% Iranian_Bandari @ 4.798
2 55.08% Russia_Tver + 44.92% IranJew @ 5.507
3 55.08% Belarusian_west-Polesye + 44.92% IranJew @ 5.508
4 54.30% Estonian_Polish + 45.70% IranJew @ 5.607
5 50.39% IranJew + 49.61% Estonian @ 5.641
6 55.86% Belarusian_east-Polesye + 44.14% IranJew @ 5.642
7 50.39% Estonian + 49.61% IranJew @ 5.652
8 56.64% Ukrainian_Tshernihov + 43.36% IranJew @ 5.758
9 72.27% Bosnian + 27.73% Iranian_Bandari @ 5.804
10 55.08% Russia_Smolensk + 44.92% IranJew @ 5.844

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Deliorman @ 10.556
2 100% Moldova_South_Gagauz @ 12.333
3 100% Gagauz @ 12.335
4 100% Moldova_South @ 12.941
5 100% Romania_Muntenia @ 12.969
6 100% Bulgarian @ 13.463
7 100% Moldova @ 14.045
8 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 14.245
9 100% Romania @ 14.414
10 100% Macedonian @ 14.455

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% IranJew + 50% Estonian @ 5.637
2 50% Finn + 50% IranJew @ 6.245
3 50% IranJew + 50% Latvian @ 6.473
4 50% Estonian_Polish + 50% IranJew @ 6.497
5 50% Karelian + 50% IranJew @ 6.604
6 50% Lebanese_Muslim + 50% Estonian @ 6.640
7 50% Vepsa + 50% IranJew @ 6.712
8 50% Polish + 50% IranJew @ 6.723
9 50% Russia_Tver + 50% IranJew @ 6.745
10 50% Russia_Tver + 50% Lebanese_Muslim @ 6.781

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 5 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 6 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 54.30% Jordanian + 45.70% Latvian @ 3.206
2 52.73% Ukrainian_Lviv + 47.27% Jordanian @ 3.684
3 60.55% LibyaJew + 39.45% North_Russian @ 3.717
4 50.39% Polish + 49.61% Jordanian @ 3.720
5 54.30% Jordanian + 45.70% Lithuanian @ 3.729
6 50.39% Jordanian + 49.61% Polish @ 3.752
7 52.73% Jordanian + 47.27% Belarusian @ 3.937
8 50.39% Jordanian + 49.61% Ukraine @ 4.130
9 50.39% Ukraine + 49.61% Jordanian @ 4.192
10 53.52% Jordanian + 46.48% Estonian @ 4.253

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Deliorman @ 14.285
2 100% Moldova_South_Gagauz @ 14.595
3 100% Gagauz @ 14.595
4 100% Moldova_South @ 14.915
5 100% Bulgarian @ 15.637
6 100% Romania_Muntenia @ 15.939
7 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 16.212
8 100% Romania @ 17.165
9 100% Macedonian @ 17.286
10 100% Romania_Oltenia @ 17.513

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Polish + 50% Jordanian @ 3.722
2 50% Ukrainian_Lviv + 50% Jordanian @ 4.126
3 50% Jordanian + 50% Ukraine @ 4.149
4 50% Estonian_Polish + 50% Jordanian @ 4.371
5 50% Jordanian + 50% Belarusian @ 4.512
6 50% UkrainePol + 50% Jordanian @ 4.703
7 50% Russia_Smolensk + 50% Jordanian @ 4.764
8 50% Jordanian + 50% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.977
9 50% Jordanian + 50% Estonian @ 5.103
10 50% Ukrainian_Lviv + 50% Lebanon @ 5.124

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 6 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 7 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 66.80% Albanian + 33.20% Austrian @ 0.933
2 80.86% Kosovo_Albanian + 19.14% Norway @ 0.950
3 80.86% Kosovo_Albanian + 19.14% SE_Norway @ 1.001
4 59.77% GreeceCentral + 40.23% GErmanB @ 1.007
5 72.27% Kosovo_Albanian + 27.73% Austrian @ 1.011
6 74.61% Kosovo_Albanian + 25.39% Orcadian @ 1.039
7 78.52% Kosovo_Albanian + 21.48% Iceland @ 1.043
8 54.30% German_IL + 45.70% Greek @ 1.051
9 75.39% Kosovo_Albanian + 24.61% GErmanB @ 1.073
10 73.83% GreeceNE + 26.17% Norway @ 1.084

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Macedonian @ 5.384
2 100% Romania_Oltenia @ 5.448
3 100% Romania_Transylvania @ 5.969
4 100% Montenegro @ 6.070
5 100% Romania @ 6.204
6 100% Romania_Muntenia @ 6.336
7 100% Bulgarian @ 6.562
8 100% Moldova_South @ 6.761
9 100% Kosovo_Albanian @ 7.452
10 100% Moldova_South_Gagauz @ 8.080

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% GErmanB + 50% GreeceSmyrna @ 1.507
2 50% GreecePhokaia + 50% GErmanB @ 1.524
3 50% Austrian + 50% GreecePhokaia @ 1.615
4 50% German_IL + 50% Italian_South_Salern @ 1.627
5 50% Swedish + 50% GreeceKos @ 1.871
6 50% Norway + 50% GreeceKos @ 2.096
7 50% Wales + 50% GreecePhokaia @ 2.117
8 50% North_European_CEU + 50% GreecePhokaia @ 2.204
9 50% GreecePhokaia + 50% Orcadian @ 2.214
10 50% GreeceCentral + 50% Austrian @ 2.237

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 7 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 8 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 50.39% Assyrian + 49.61% Basque1 @ 2.576
2 50.39% Basque1 + 49.61% Assyrian @ 2.652
3 75.39% Italian_North + 24.61% Armenia @ 3.157
4 76.17% Italian_North + 23.83% Georgian_Laz @ 3.371
5 58.98% Spanish + 41.02% Armenia @ 3.457
6 73.05% Italian_North + 26.95% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.465
7 78.52% Italian_North + 21.48% Georgian_Imereti @ 3.486
8 54.30% Azeri_Jew + 45.70% Basque1 @ 3.840
9 50.39% Basque1 + 49.61% Armenia @ 4.107
10 61.33% Portugese + 38.67% Armenia @ 4.107

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Italian @ 8.351
2 100% Sicilian_Trapani @ 10.338
3 100% Agrigento-Sicily @ 11.679
4 100% Tuscan @ 11.734
5 100% ItalyAbruzzo @ 11.970
6 100% West-Sicily @ 12.062
7 100% Italian_South_Salern @ 12.223
8 100% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 13.586
9 100% Greek @ 13.781
10 100% Central-Sicily @ 13.885

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Assyrian + 50% Basque1 @ 2.591
2 50% Basque1 + 50% Armenia @ 4.105
3 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Basque1 @ 5.047
4 50% Azeri_Jew + 50% Basque1 @ 5.113
5 50% Spanish + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 5.941
6 50% IranJew + 50% Basque1 @ 6.284
7 50% Greek + 50% Italian_North @ 6.393
8 50% Italian_North + 50% GreeceKos @ 6.736
9 50% Italian_North + 50% Crete @ 7.095
10 50% Syria + 50% Basque1 @ 7.210

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 8 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 9 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 74.61% Macedonian + 25.39% Georgian @ 0.950
2 73.05% Romania + 26.95% Georgian @ 1.080
3 72.27% Montenegro + 27.73% Georgian @ 1.104
4 72.27% Romania_Transylvania + 27.73% Georgian @ 1.263
5 70.70% Romania_Moldova + 29.30% Georgian @ 1.426
6 51.17% Georgian_Laz + 48.83% German_IL @ 1.544
7 73.05% Romania_Oltenia + 26.95% Georgian @ 1.591
8 73.83% Macedonian + 26.17% Abhkasian @ 1.638
9 74.61% Bulgarian + 25.39% Georgian @ 1.672
10 76.95% Romania_Muntenia + 23.05% Georgian @ 1.762

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 10.656
2 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 14.001
3 100% GreecePhokaia @ 14.042
4 100% GreeceCentral @ 14.989
5 100% Albanian @ 15.016
6 100% GreecePelopenese @ 15.381
7 100% Turkish_Deliorman @ 15.399
8 100% GreeceNE @ 15.447
9 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 16.343
10 100% Gagauz @ 16.448

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% German_IL @ 1.755
2 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% GErmanB @ 3.016
3 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Austrian @ 3.087
4 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% GermanA @ 3.138
5 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Czech @ 3.271
6 50% Slovenian + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 3.307
7 50% Hungary + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 3.591
8 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Wales @ 3.874
9 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% North_European_CEU @ 4.051
10 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Orcadian @ 4.055

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 9 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 10 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 68.36% Turkish_Trabzon + 31.64% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 1.449
2 62.89% Armenia + 37.11% Belarusian_east-Polesye @ 1.900
3 63.67% Armenia + 36.33% Belarusian_west-Polesye @ 2.013
4 69.14% Turkish_Trabzon + 30.86% Polish @ 2.068
5 63.67% Armenia + 36.33% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.075
6 62.89% Armenia + 37.11% Ukrainian_Tshernihov @ 2.089
7 63.67% Armenia + 36.33% Russia_Smolensk @ 2.090
8 64.45% Armenia + 35.55% Estonian_Polish @ 2.094
9 62.11% Armenia + 37.89% RussianVoronez @ 2.132
10 64.45% Armenia + 35.55% Polish @ 2.233

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 12.359
2 100% Turkish_Ege @ 13.424
3 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 13.964
4 100% GreecePhokaia @ 13.989
5 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 14.357
6 100% Crete @ 15.194
7 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 15.560
8 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 16.387
9 100% GreeceKos @ 16.487
10 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 16.625

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Armenia + 50% Romania_Bukovina @ 3.443
2 50% Armenia + 50% Moldova_North @ 3.991
3 50% Armenia + 50% Moldova_Centre @ 4.211
4 50% Armenia + 50% Bosnian @ 4.381
5 50% Moldova + 50% Armenia @ 4.392
6 50% Kurd + 50% Bulgarian @ 4.498
7 50% Moldova_South + 50% Kurd @ 4.512
8 50% Gagauz + 50% Kurd @ 4.629
9 50% Moldova_South_Gagauz + 50% Kurd @ 4.631
10 50% Romania_Muntenia + 50% Kurd @ 4.794

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 10 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 11 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 79.30% ItalyAbruzzo + 20.70% Abhkasian @ 1.162
2 80.08% GreeceCentral + 19.92% Georgian @ 1.734
3 86.33% GreecePhokaia + 13.67% Georgian @ 2.092
4 79.30% ItalyAbruzzo + 20.70% Georgian @ 2.242
5 61.33% Armenia + 38.67% Belgian @ 2.392
6 72.27% ItalyAbruzzo + 27.73% Georgian_Imereti @ 2.425
7 73.05% GreeceCentral + 26.95% Georgian_Imereti @ 2.470
8 79.30% Greek + 20.70% Chechen @ 2.539
9 66.80% Turkish_Trabzon + 33.20% Belgian @ 2.649
10 80.08% Greek + 19.92% Lezgin @ 2.761

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 8.319
2 100% Crete @ 9.065
3 100% GreecePhokaia @ 9.316
4 100% GreeceKos @ 9.917
5 100% Greek @ 10.909
6 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 12.092
7 100% Italian_South_Salern @ 12.988
8 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 13.173
9 100% Romanian_Jew @ 13.678
10 100% Turkish_Ege @ 14.100

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Kosovo_Albanian + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.212
2 50% Albanian + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.801
3 50% Tuscan + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 4.953
4 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Canary_Islander @ 5.012
5 50% GreeceThessaly + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 5.049
6 50% Italian + 50% Kabardin @ 5.085
7 50% GreeceNE + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 5.261
8 50% Canary_Islander + 50% Georgian_Imereti @ 5.479
9 50% Italian + 50% Azer_Dagestan @ 5.760
10 50% Kosovo_Albanian + 50% Armenia @ 5.900

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 11 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 12 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 94.92% Croat_Bosnia + 5.08% Japanese @ 2.593
2 94.92% Serbian_Bosnia + 5.08% Japanese @ 2.754
3 94.92% Croat_Bosnia + 5.08% Korean @ 2.767
4 95.70% Bosnian + 4.30% Japanese @ 2.911
5 94.92% Serbian_Bosnia + 5.08% Korean @ 2.966
6 94.14% Croat_Bosnia + 5.86% Mongola @ 2.970
7 94.14% Croat_Bosnia + 5.86% Xibo @ 2.982
8 94.92% Croat_Bosnia + 5.08% Daur @ 2.988
9 94.92% Serbian_Bosnia + 5.08% Daur @ 3.093
10 96.48% Moldova_Centre + 3.52% Japanese @ 3.099

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Moldova_Centre @ 4.888
2 100% Serbian @ 5.200
3 100% Bosnian @ 5.412
4 100% Moldova @ 5.504
5 100% Romania_Moldova @ 5.732
6 100% Croat_Bosnia @ 5.753
7 100% Moldova_North @ 5.870
8 100% Serbian_Bosnia @ 5.957
9 100% Romania_Bukovina @ 6.453
10 100% Croat @ 6.905

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Hungary + 50% Turkish_Deliorman @ 4.097
2 50% Turkish_Deliorman + 50% Czech @ 4.119
3 50% Romania_Muntenia + 50% Hungary @ 4.253
4 50% Turkish_Deliorman + 50% German_IL @ 4.318
5 50% GermanA + 50% Turkish_Deliorman @ 4.373
6 50% Hungary + 50% Moldova_South @ 4.501
7 50% Slovenian + 50% Turkish_Deliorman @ 4.510
8 50% Turkish_Deliorman + 50% Slovakia @ 4.522
9 50% Slovenian + 50% Romania_Muntenia @ 4.528
10 50% Serbian + 50% Moldova_North @ 4.589

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 12 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 13 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 86.33% Italian + 13.67% Dolgan @ 5.818
2 89.45% Italian + 10.55% Nganassan @ 5.945
3 87.89% Italian + 12.11% Yakut @ 6.047
4 87.11% Italian + 12.89% Tundra_Nenets @ 6.215
5 89.45% Italian + 10.55% Evenk @ 6.220
6 87.11% Italian + 12.89% Forest_Nenets @ 6.239
7 87.11% Italian + 12.89% Nenets @ 6.308
8 88.67% Italian + 11.33% Even @ 6.451
9 87.11% Italian + 12.89% Ket @ 6.564
10 86.33% Italian + 13.67% Selkup @ 6.735

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Italian @ 12.199
2 100% Sicilian_Trapani @ 13.043
3 100% East-Sicily18 @ 13.817
4 100% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 13.945
5 100% Tuscan @ 13.990
6 100% Agrigento-Sicily @ 14.076
7 100% Central-Sicily @ 14.135
8 100% West-Sicily @ 14.217
9 100% ItalyAbruzzo @ 14.803
10 100% Italian_South_Salern @ 15.008

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Iraqi + 50% Basque1 @ 9.874
2 50% Spanish + 50% Lebanon @ 10.096
3 50% Portugese + 50% Lebanon @ 10.397
4 50% Lebanese_Muslim + 50% Spanish @ 10.564
5 50% Spanish + 50% Lebanese_Christian @ 10.748
6 50% Portugese + 50% Lebanese_Muslim @ 10.756
7 50% Portugese + 50% Lebanese_Christian @ 10.803
8 50% Spanish + 50% Jordanian @ 10.980
9 50% Tuscan + 50% AlgeriaJew @ 11.043
10 50% French + 50% Palestinian @ 11.112

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 13 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 14 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 51.17% Iranian_Mazandarani + 48.83% Dutch @ 1.980
2 50.39% Dutch + 49.61% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 2.192
3 52.73% Iranian_Mazandarani + 47.27% UKIrish @ 2.264
4 53.52% Iran + 46.48% Iceland @ 2.291
5 50.39% Iranian_Mazandarani + 49.61% Scottish @ 2.471
6 53.52% Iranian_Mazandarani + 46.48% British @ 2.508
7 53.52% Iranian_Mazandarani + 46.48% SW_Scot @ 2.540
8 50.39% Scottish + 49.61% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 2.548
9 53.52% Iranian_Mazandarani + 46.48% Irish @ 2.698
10 50.39% English + 49.61% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 2.773

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 12.645
2 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 13.142
3 100% Turkish_Deliorman @ 14.800
4 100% Albanian @ 14.946
5 100% GreecePelopenese @ 15.050
6 100% GreeceCentral @ 15.262
7 100% GreeceNE @ 15.410
8 100% GreecePhokaia @ 15.892
9 100% GreeceThessaly @ 15.920
10 100% Kosovo_Albanian @ 16.249

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Iranian_Mazandarani + 50% Dutch @ 2.075
2 50% Iranian_Mazandarani + 50% Scottish @ 2.492
3 50% English + 50% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 2.776
4 50% Iranian_Mazandarani + 50% UKIrish @ 3.196
5 50% Iran + 50% Scottish @ 3.290
6 50% North_European_CEU + 50% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 3.307
7 50% Iran + 50% Orcadian @ 3.322
8 50% Orcadian + 50% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 3.371
9 50% Iranian_Mazandarani + 50% Iceland @ 3.419
10 50% Wales + 50% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 3.426

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 14 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 15 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 80.08% Basque1 + 19.92% Yemen_Jewish @ 5.254
2 80.86% Basque1 + 19.14% Yemen @ 6.024
3 91.80% Spanish + 8.20% Mozabite @ 6.990
4 96.48% Spanish + 3.52% Yemen_Jewish @ 7.103
5 96.48% Spanish + 3.52% Yemen @ 7.267
6 96.48% Spanish + 3.52% Libyan_LIB8 @ 7.509
7 95.70% Spanish + 4.30% Moroccan @ 7.518
8 96.48% Spanish + 3.52% Libyan @ 7.547
9 95.70% Spanish + 4.30% Algerian @ 7.598
10 96.48% Spanish + 3.52% Tunisian @ 7.618

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Spanish @ 7.794
2 100% Portugese @ 9.184
3 100% SouthFrench @ 15.742
4 100% French @ 16.544
5 100% Canary_Islander @ 17.727
6 100% Italian_North @ 19.456
7 100% Basque1 @ 20.614
8 100% Belgian @ 22.925
9 100% Tuscan @ 24.581
10 100% English_Kent @ 27.334

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Spanish + 50% Spanish @ 7.794
2 50% Spanish + 50% Portugese @ 8.377
3 50% Portugese + 50% Portugese @ 9.184
4 50% Spanish + 50% SouthFrench @ 11.139
5 50% Canary_Islander + 50% Basque1 @ 11.193
6 50% Spanish + 50% Canary_Islander @ 11.603
7 50% Portugese + 50% SouthFrench @ 11.739
8 50% Spanish + 50% French @ 11.781
9 50% Basque1 + 50% Tuscan @ 12.096
10 50% Portugese + 50% French @ 12.324

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 15 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 16 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 68.36% Gagauz + 31.64% Yemen_Jewish @ 5.281
2 68.36% Moldova_South_Gagauz + 31.64% Yemen_Jewish @ 5.282
3 67.58% Moldova_South_Gagauz + 32.42% Yemen @ 5.664
4 67.58% Gagauz + 32.42% Yemen @ 5.664
5 65.23% Palestinian + 34.77% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.915
6 66.80% Palestinian + 33.20% Polish @ 5.973
7 66.02% Romania_Muntenia + 33.98% Yemen_Jewish @ 6.084
8 67.58% Turkish_Deliorman + 32.42% Yemen_Jewish @ 6.090
9 66.80% Palestinian + 33.20% Ukraine @ 6.165
10 67.58% Palestinian + 32.42% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 6.189

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Romanian_Jew @ 16.477
2 100% East-Sicily18 @ 16.519
3 100% Ashkenazy @ 17.112
4 100% GreeceMacedonia @ 17.563
5 100% GreecePhokaia @ 17.923
6 100% GreecePelopenese @ 18.233
7 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 18.236
8 100% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 18.521
9 100% Crete @ 18.671
10 100% Central-Sicily @ 18.778

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Iraqi + 50% Romania_Bukovina @ 6.979
2 50% Palestinian + 50% Romania_Bukovina @ 7.176
3 50% Romania_Moldova + 50% Iraqi @ 7.184
4 50% Iraqi + 50% Serbian_Bosnia @ 7.248
5 50% Iraqi + 50% Croat_Bosnia @ 7.423
6 50% Serbian + 50% Iraqi @ 7.614
7 50% Iraqi + 50% Bosnian @ 7.658
8 50% Iraqi + 50% Croat @ 7.766
9 50% Iraqi + 50% Moldova_Centre @ 7.932
10 50% Moldova + 50% Iraqi @ 7.937

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 16 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 17 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 77.73% Cyprus + 22.27% Cornwall @ 2.785
2 79.30% Cyprus + 20.70% English_Kent @ 3.003
3 73.83% Italian + 26.17% Assyrian @ 3.080
4 66.02% Cyprus + 33.98% Italian_North @ 3.311
5 56.64% Italian + 43.36% Cyprus @ 3.518
6 80.08% Cyprus + 19.92% Irish @ 3.653
7 75.39% Cyprus + 24.61% French @ 3.664
8 75.39% Italian + 24.61% Armenia @ 3.718
9 77.73% Cyprus + 22.27% Belgian @ 3.753
10 80.08% Cyprus + 19.92% British @ 3.756

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Greek @ 7.166
2 100% Sephardic_Turkey @ 8.824
3 100% ItalyJew @ 8.874
4 100% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 9.096
5 100% FranceJew @ 9.175
6 100% GreeceKos @ 9.265
7 100% Agrigento-Sicily @ 9.861
8 100% Crete @ 10.112
9 100% West-Sicily @ 10.418
10 100% AlgeriaJew @ 10.596

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Italian + 50% Cyprus @ 3.906
2 50% Sicilian_Trapani + 50% Cyprus @ 4.738
3 50% Italian_North + 50% Assyrian @ 4.906
4 50% ItalyAbruzzo + 50% Cyprus @ 5.351
5 50% Agrigento-Sicily + 50% Cyprus @ 5.444
6 50% West-Sicily + 50% Cyprus @ 5.604
7 50% Italian_South_Salern + 50% Cyprus @ 5.615
8 50% Cyprus + 50% Tuscan @ 5.617
9 50% Syria + 50% Italian_North @ 5.671
10 50% GreeceKos + 50% Italian @ 6.003

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 17 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 18 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 71.48% Sicilian_Trapani + 28.52% Cornwall @ 2.153
2 65.23% West-Sicily + 34.77% Cornwall @ 2.340
3 53.52% Sephardic_Turkey + 46.48% Cornwall @ 2.356
4 58.20% FranceJew + 41.80% Cornwall @ 2.498
5 68.36% Italian_South_Salern + 31.64% English_Kent @ 2.508
6 65.23% Agrigento-Sicily + 34.77% Cornwall @ 2.527
7 74.61% Sicilian_Trapani + 25.39% English_Kent @ 2.542
8 65.23% Italian_South_Salern + 34.77% Cornwall @ 2.608
9 64.45% Central-Sicily + 35.55% Cornwall @ 2.633
10 74.61% Sicilian_Trapani + 25.39% Irish @ 2.641

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Tuscan @ 8.164
2 100% Kosovo_Albanian @ 9.805
3 100% GreeceThessaly @ 10.079
4 100% Albanian @ 10.667
5 100% GreeceNE @ 10.751
6 100% Sicilian_Trapani @ 11.436
7 100% ItalyAbruzzo @ 11.535
8 100% GreeceCentral @ 11.863
9 100% GreecePelopenese @ 12.037
10 100% Italian_North @ 12.304

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Sephardic_Turkey + 50% Cornwall @ 2.992
2 50% Crete + 50% French @ 3.503
3 50% GreeceKos + 50% Belgian @ 3.513
4 50% Albanian + 50% Italian_North @ 3.712
5 50% GreeceSmyrna + 50% French @ 3.743
6 50% Italian_North + 50% Turkish_Rumeli @ 3.881
7 50% Cornwall + 50% LibyaJew @ 3.903
8 50% French + 50% GreeceKos @ 3.973
9 50% GreeceNE + 50% Italian_North @ 4.002
10 50% AlgeriaJew + 50% Cornwall @ 4.057

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 18 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 19 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 55.08% RussianKursk + 44.92% Palestinian @ 4.069
2 55.08% RussianVoronez + 44.92% Palestinian @ 4.384
3 54.30% Ukrainian_Lviv + 45.70% Jordanian @ 4.404
4 53.52% Russia_Smolensk + 46.48% Palestinian @ 4.505
5 55.08% RussianOrjol + 44.92% Palestinian @ 4.591
6 51.95% Polish + 48.05% Palestinian @ 4.607
7 52.73% Estonian_Polish + 47.27% Palestinian @ 4.640
8 54.30% Belarusian_east-Polesye + 45.70% Palestinian @ 4.684
9 51.95% Polish + 48.05% Jordanian @ 4.770
10 51.95% Palestinian + 48.05% Estonian @ 4.816

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Deliorman @ 12.980
2 100% Moldova_South_Gagauz @ 13.556
3 100% Gagauz @ 13.557
4 100% Moldova_South @ 13.772
5 100% Bulgarian @ 14.213
6 100% Romania_Muntenia @ 14.627
7 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 15.317
8 100% Romania @ 15.709
9 100% Macedonian @ 16.033
10 100% Romania_Oltenia @ 16.089

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Polish + 50% Palestinian @ 4.866
2 50% Polish + 50% Jordanian @ 5.029
3 50% Palestinian + 50% Estonian @ 5.038
4 50% Estonian_Polish + 50% Palestinian @ 5.079
5 50% Jordanian + 50% Belarusian @ 5.194
6 50% Ukraine + 50% Jordanian @ 5.200
7 50% Russia_Smolensk + 50% Palestinian @ 5.255
8 50% Ukrainian_Lviv + 50% Lebanon @ 5.342
9 50% Russia_Tver + 50% Palestinian @ 5.456
10 50% RussianKursk + 50% Palestinian @ 5.464

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 19 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 20 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 56.64% Assyrian + 43.36% Basque1 @ 9.432
2 55.86% Armenia + 44.14% Basque1 @ 10.130
3 69.14% Cyprus + 30.86% Basque1 @ 10.575
4 50.39% Basque1 + 49.61% Assyrian @ 11.304
5 88.67% Italian + 11.33% Georgian @ 11.560
6 50.39% Basque1 + 49.61% Armenia @ 11.658
7 65.23% Italian_North + 34.77% Armenia @ 11.779
8 58.98% Turkish_Trabzon + 41.02% Basque1 @ 11.873
9 64.45% Italian_North + 35.55% Assyrian @ 12.181
10 51.17% Italian_North + 48.83% Cyprus @ 12.198

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Italian @ 14.262
2 100% Greek @ 17.039
3 100% Agrigento-Sicily @ 17.360
4 100% West-Sicily @ 17.942
5 100% Italian_South_Salern @ 18.314
6 100% Sicilian_Trapani @ 18.466
7 100% ItalyJew @ 19.399
8 100% Sephardic_Bulgaria @ 19.406
9 100% FranceJew @ 19.559
10 100% Central-Sicily @ 19.878

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Assyrian + 50% Basque1 @ 11.117
2 50% Armenia + 50% Basque1 @ 11.489
3 50% Italian_North + 50% Cyprus @ 12.206
4 50% Spanish + 50% Armenia @ 12.277
5 50% Portugese + 50% Armenia @ 12.884
6 50% Spanish + 50% Assyrian @ 12.973
7 50% Portugese + 50% Assyrian @ 13.505
8 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Spanish @ 13.669
9 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Portugese @ 14.007
10 50% Turkish_Trabzon + 50% Basque1 @ 14.205

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 20 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 21 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 52.73% Yemen + 47.27% Norway @ 12.532
2 52.73% Yemen + 47.27% SE_Norway @ 12.692
3 51.95% Yemen + 48.05% Swedish @ 12.752
4 51.17% GErmanB + 48.83% Yemen @ 12.800
5 51.17% Orcadian + 48.83% Yemen @ 12.821
6 51.17% Yemen + 48.83% Danish @ 12.840
7 51.17% Yemen + 48.83% Iceland @ 12.851
8 51.95% North_European_CEU + 48.05% Yemen @ 12.853
9 50.39% Norway + 49.61% Yemen @ 12.863
10 50.39% Yemen + 49.61% Orcadian @ 12.903

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% East-Sicily18 @ 23.412
2 100% Romanian_Jew @ 24.170
3 100% Ashkenazy @ 24.305
4 100% Turkish_Rumeli @ 24.774
5 100% GreecePelopenese @ 25.255
6 100% Sicilian_Siracuse @ 25.461
7 100% GreeceThessaly @ 25.793
8 100% Central-Sicily @ 25.946
9 100% GreeceNE @ 26.059
10 100% Turkish_Deliorman @ 26.559

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Yemen + 50% Norway @ 12.782
2 50% Orcadian + 50% Yemen @ 12.868
3 50% GErmanB + 50% Yemen @ 12.870
4 50% Yemen + 50% Danish @ 12.875
5 50% Yemen + 50% Iceland @ 12.909
6 50% Yemen + 50% SE_Norway @ 12.920
7 50% Yemen + 50% Swedish @ 12.926
8 50% North_European_CEU + 50% Yemen @ 12.987
9 50% English + 50% Yemen @ 12.993
10 50% Scottish + 50% Yemen @ 13.057

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 21 -----

----- START OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 22 -----
Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 01/08/2020

Finished reading population data. 231 populations found.
10 components mode.

A distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 70.70% Crete + 29.30% Nogay @ 6.694
2 71.48% GreeceKos + 28.52% Nogay @ 6.764
3 70.70% GreeceKos + 29.30% Kumyk @ 6.872
4 67.58% FranceJew + 32.42% Adygei @ 6.891
5 66.02% Sephardic_Bulgaria + 33.98% Adygei @ 6.894
6 53.52% ItalyJew + 46.48% Kabardin @ 7.074
7 54.30% Sephardic_Bulgaria + 45.70% Kabardin @ 7.083
8 65.23% ItalyJew + 34.77% Adygei @ 7.085
9 55.86% FranceJew + 44.14% Kabardin @ 7.112
10 66.80% Crete + 33.20% Kabardin @ 7.210

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Turkish_Ege @ 9.169
2 100% Turkish_Marmara @ 10.061
3 100% Turkish_Anadolu @ 10.769
4 100% Turkish_Akdeniz @ 11.001
5 100% GreeceKos @ 12.346
6 100% Crete @ 12.692
7 100% GreeceSmyrna @ 13.457
8 100% GreecePhokaia @ 14.940
9 100% Greek @ 16.438
10 100% Azeri @ 16.555

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% ItalyJew + 50% Kabardin @ 7.187
2 50% Sephardic_Bulgaria + 50% Kabardin @ 7.291
3 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Turkish_Trabzon @ 7.304
4 50% FranceJew + 50% Kabardin @ 7.464
5 50% AlgeriaJew + 50% Kabardin @ 7.495
6 50% East-Sicily18 + 50% ossetian @ 7.732
7 50% Sephardic_Turkey + 50% Kabardin @ 7.739
8 50% GreecePhokaia + 50% Azeri @ 7.799
9 50% Turkish_Rumeli + 50% Armenia @ 7.849
10 50% Turkish_Ege + 50% GreeceKos @ 7.869

----- END OF POPULATIONS FOR CHROMOSOME 22 -----

Markos
02-26-2021, 05:10 PM
Here is my file. I guess your dad and I might be unusually mixed Greeks!


Or this tool is bollocks, haha.

XXD
02-26-2021, 05:42 PM
Or this tool is bollocks, haha.

This is always a possibility. However, I find it quite strange that it finds "Iranian" and/or "Roma" admixture in exactly the same chromosomes that I have matches with Roma populations, showing that it is somewhat accurate.

dosas
02-26-2021, 05:46 PM
This is always a possibility. However, I find it quite strange that it finds "Iranian" and/or "Roma" admixture in exactly the same chromosomes that I have matches with Roma populations.

I think these calculators are good as long as you can match them in big %s. The 23v5 files match them around 30%, which, if you think about it, it's not really that great.

But my WGS file matches them 99.98% - 99.99%, I haven't seen any calculator dropping below that figure.

Greekscholar
02-27-2021, 01:28 AM
Thank you both for sharing.

I think this is more or less what we expect to see from Thrace and Constantinople, but I wonder which is causal. Meaning, is Thrace so diverse because of the spill over from the grand city? Or is the grand city so diverse because its Greek population was based (at least in part) on the people living in Thrace, at the crossroads of two continents and two major seas?

All this makes me hungry for more historic samples. We know so little about the genetics of such an important city.

dosas
03-03-2021, 08:35 PM
I ghosted my grandfather's G25, using the function on Genoplot, and my mother's/grandmother's data.

Then I "optimal" fitted him with G25-Studio Pro, using the scaled-modern averages lists (I excluded Greek/Turkish Trabzon from the list, for reasons I won't repeat).

The results came back how I pretty much expected them to (wall of text warning):




Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 04/09/2020

Finished reading population data. 586 populations found.
25 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Turkish_Southwest @ 1.462
2 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Greek_Izmir @ 1.469
3 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Greek_Kos @ 1.470
4 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Turkish_Rumeli @ 1.472
5 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Rumelia_East @ 1.489
6 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Greek_Central_Anatolia @ 1.503
7 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Greek_Central_Macedonia @ 1.514
8 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Italian_Umbria @ 1.524
9 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Greek_Peloponnese @ 1.529
10 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Italian_Calabria @ 1.540

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Georgian_Laz @ 1.755
2 100% Armenian_Hemsheni @ 1.777
3 100% Greek_Central_Anatolia @ 2.180
4 100% Turkish_East @ 2.539
5 100% Greek_Cappadocia @ 2.636
6 100% Armenian @ 2.645
7 100% Abkhasian @ 2.815
8 100% Georgian_Imer @ 3.043
9 100% Talysh_Azerbaijan @ 3.047
10 100% Kurdish @ 3.062

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Armenian_Hemsheni @ 1.596
2 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Greek_Central_Anatolia @ 1.625
3 50% Greek_Central_Anatolia + 50% Abkhasian @ 1.717
4 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 1.755
5 50% Armenian_Hemsheni + 50% Armenian_Hemsheni @ 1.777
6 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Greek_Kos @ 1.781
7 50% Georgian_Imer + 50% Greek_Kos @ 1.832
8 50% Greek_Central_Anatolia + 50% Georgian_Imer @ 1.850
9 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Greek_Dodecanese @ 1.886
10 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Turkish_East @ 1.893

Using 3 populations approximation
1 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Greek_Central_Anatolia @ 1.518
2 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Armenian_Hemsheni @ 1.536
3 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Greek_Kos @ 1.540
4 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Italian_Calabria @ 1.612
5 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Greek_Central_Anatolia + 33% Abkhasian @ 1.621
6 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Armenian_Hemsheni + 33% Greek_Central_Anatolia @ 1.638
7 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Greek_Central_Anatolia + 33% Adygei @ 1.652
8 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Armenian_Hemsheni + 33% Armenian_Hemsheni @ 1.657
9 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Armenian_Hemsheni + 33% Adygei @ 1.670
10 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Talysh_Azerbaijan @ 1.672

Using 4 populations approximation
1 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Greek_Izmir @ 1.467
2 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Greek_Kos @ 1.483
3 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Greek_Central_Anatolia @ 1.492
4 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Armenian_Hemsheni @ 1.530
5 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Italian_Calabria @ 1.563
6 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Greek_Central_Anatolia + 25% Abkhasian @ 1.572
7 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Armenian_Hemsheni + 25% Greek_Izmir @ 1.573
8 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Armenian_Hemsheni + 25% Greek_Kos @ 1.573
9 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Armenian_Hemsheni + 25% Greek_Central_Anatolia @ 1.582
10 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Italian_Basilicata @ 1.586

23abc
03-03-2021, 11:56 PM
Question for the mainlanders - how much is the highest WANA you've seen a full mainlander score on 23andMe? Recently I got 2 interesting matches. One with 4 grandparents from Eastern Thrace, scores 37% Anatolian + 15% Italian + 45% Greek & Balkan. Another with 4 grandparents from Messenia with 21% Anatolian + 79% Greek & Balkan. Have any of your matches scored similarly high amounts of 23andMe's Anatolian category?

TonyC
03-04-2021, 12:21 AM
Question for the mainlanders - how much is the highest WANA you've seen a full mainlander score on 23andMe? Recently I got 2 interesting matches. One with 4 grandparents from Eastern Thrace, scores 37% Anatolian + 15% Italian + 45% Greek & Balkan. Another with 4 grandparents from Messenia with 21% Anatolian + 79% Greek & Balkan. Have any of your matches scored similarly high amounts of 23andMe's Anatolian category?

Mine is around 1.4% Anatolian
Son's is 2.0%
Cousin who is 1/2 Messinian, 1/2 Macedonian is 1.8%
Cousin who is roughly 75% Peloponnesian, 25% Thessalian is 1.1%

xripkan
03-04-2021, 02:07 AM
Question for the mainlanders - how much is the highest WANA you've seen a full mainlander score on 23andMe? Recently I got 2 interesting matches. One with 4 grandparents from Eastern Thrace, scores 37% Anatolian + 15% Italian + 45% Greek & Balkan. Another with 4 grandparents from Messenia with 21% Anatolian + 79% Greek & Balkan. Have any of your matches scored similarly high amounts of 23andMe's Anatolian category?

I score 12.4% WANA and I am a full mainlander. I have seen mainlanders among my matches who score about 8-9%.

lacreme
03-04-2021, 11:39 AM
I ghosted my grandfather's G25, using the function on Genoplot, and my mother's/grandmother's data.

Then I "optimal" fitted him with G25-Studio Pro, using the scaled-modern averages lists (I excluded Greek/Turkish Trabzon from the list, for reasons I won't repeat).

The results came back how I pretty much expected them to (wall of text warning):




Oracle Calculator by www.dnagenics.com
v1.9 04/09/2020

Finished reading population data. 586 populations found.
25 components mode.

B distance calculation method.

--------------------------------


Mixed Mode:
1 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Turkish_Southwest @ 1.462
2 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Greek_Izmir @ 1.469
3 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Greek_Kos @ 1.470
4 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Turkish_Rumeli @ 1.472
5 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Rumelia_East @ 1.489
6 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Greek_Central_Anatolia @ 1.503
7 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Greek_Central_Macedonia @ 1.514
8 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Italian_Umbria @ 1.524
9 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Greek_Peloponnese @ 1.529
10 81.25% Georgian_Laz + 18.75% Italian_Calabria @ 1.540

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Georgian_Laz @ 1.755
2 100% Armenian_Hemsheni @ 1.777
3 100% Greek_Central_Anatolia @ 2.180
4 100% Turkish_East @ 2.539
5 100% Greek_Cappadocia @ 2.636
6 100% Armenian @ 2.645
7 100% Abkhasian @ 2.815
8 100% Georgian_Imer @ 3.043
9 100% Talysh_Azerbaijan @ 3.047
10 100% Kurdish @ 3.062

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Armenian_Hemsheni @ 1.596
2 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Greek_Central_Anatolia @ 1.625
3 50% Greek_Central_Anatolia + 50% Abkhasian @ 1.717
4 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Georgian_Laz @ 1.755
5 50% Armenian_Hemsheni + 50% Armenian_Hemsheni @ 1.777
6 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Greek_Kos @ 1.781
7 50% Georgian_Imer + 50% Greek_Kos @ 1.832
8 50% Greek_Central_Anatolia + 50% Georgian_Imer @ 1.850
9 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Greek_Dodecanese @ 1.886
10 50% Georgian_Laz + 50% Turkish_East @ 1.893

Using 3 populations approximation
1 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Greek_Central_Anatolia @ 1.518
2 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Armenian_Hemsheni @ 1.536
3 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Greek_Kos @ 1.540
4 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Italian_Calabria @ 1.612
5 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Greek_Central_Anatolia + 33% Abkhasian @ 1.621
6 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Armenian_Hemsheni + 33% Greek_Central_Anatolia @ 1.638
7 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Greek_Central_Anatolia + 33% Adygei @ 1.652
8 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Armenian_Hemsheni + 33% Armenian_Hemsheni @ 1.657
9 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Armenian_Hemsheni + 33% Adygei @ 1.670
10 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Georgian_Laz + 33% Talysh_Azerbaijan @ 1.672

Using 4 populations approximation
1 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Greek_Izmir @ 1.467
2 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Greek_Kos @ 1.483
3 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Greek_Central_Anatolia @ 1.492
4 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Armenian_Hemsheni @ 1.530
5 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Italian_Calabria @ 1.563
6 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Greek_Central_Anatolia + 25% Abkhasian @ 1.572
7 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Armenian_Hemsheni + 25% Greek_Izmir @ 1.573
8 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Armenian_Hemsheni + 25% Greek_Kos @ 1.573
9 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Armenian_Hemsheni + 25% Greek_Central_Anatolia @ 1.582
10 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Georgian_Laz + 25% Italian_Basilicata @ 1.586


Where is this function on Genoplot ?

EDIT
I may have found it but when I try to use it on the substraction mode while I can choose my friend's G25 coordinates I can't choose my friend's mother (can't find her on the list) whose data I just uploaded, to substract her from him in order to create his ghost dad

peloponnesian
03-04-2021, 02:04 PM
Question for the mainlanders - how much is the highest WANA you've seen a full mainlander score on 23andMe? Recently I got 2 interesting matches. One with 4 grandparents from Eastern Thrace, scores 37% Anatolian + 15% Italian + 45% Greek & Balkan. Another with 4 grandparents from Messenia with 21% Anatolian + 79% Greek & Balkan. Have any of your matches scored similarly high amounts of 23andMe's Anatolian category?

Ι picked those who have 4 grandparents born in Greece and checked the first 3 pages of results. Many have their results hidden, unfortunately. I didn't check those who have non-mainlander ancestry listed and also those who put generic "Greece" as their grandparents' places.

So, from the rest:

A lot have between 1-3% WANA. A couple score 5-6%. A surprising number have 100% Greek & Balkan or very close to it. Balkan stronk in the Peloponnese. Based on the villages listed, some of these have ancestry from the more Arvanite-influenced areas of Argolis and Corinthia.

From the rest, 3 people stand out the most: there's a woman who has 10.8% WANA. But she lists all 4 grandparents as being from "Sparta" so I am not sure how much you can trust this. She scores a little bit of everything, Caucasian, Levantine, Coptic, etc. Then there's a guy who lists 4 villages in NW Laconia (very close to my grandpa's) and he scores a magnificent 16.8% WANA! Mostly Caucasian and then some Cypriot and Egyptian. Very strange since my grandpa would score something between 0-1%, based on my own results, and these people tended to stay in the same areas for a long time and marry each other. And then another guy who lists 4 villages from NW Laconia and has 11.4% WANA, mostly Cypriot and a bit Anatolian.

Markos
03-04-2021, 02:33 PM
Question for the mainlanders - how much is the highest WANA you've seen a full mainlander score on 23andMe? Recently I got 2 interesting matches. One with 4 grandparents from Eastern Thrace, scores 37% Anatolian + 15% Italian + 45% Greek & Balkan. Another with 4 grandparents from Messenia with 21% Anatolian + 79% Greek & Balkan. Have any of your matches scored similarly high amounts of 23andMe's Anatolian category?

Someone who I know was tested is 50% from Sparta (Lakonia) and 50% from Agrinio (West-Central Greece) and these are her results:

https://i.ibb.co/MCF5jV9/Screen-Shot-2021-03-04-at-9-23-41-AM.png

Perhaps things would be reduced after phasing with parents?

But, what's interesting is 23andMe's Greek & Balkan component could be anything from Northern Greek (and more northern) to Southern Greeks and so this could be a crucial difference when seeing results on GEDMatch or G25. For example, xripkan and XXD have a decent amount of WANA in their results maybe because of very real recent ancestry, but a comparison on 23andMe to others with similar components may not do it justice if their "Greek & Balkan" component is more northern shifted. We know this is the case from G25 results we have seen in this thread. it is worth exploring if we know the ancestry of all people involved because it could give us clues to what specific parts of Greece may be shifted one way or the other, for whatever reason that may be.

23abc
03-04-2021, 03:02 PM
I am wondering if the 'Anatolian' category of 23andMe implies Turkish ancestry. The 2 individuals I mentioned do not score random bits of WANA like most of my other matches, just all in Anatolian. From my matches, mainly the individuals that score large chunks of 'Anatolian' are ones with some grandparents coming from northwest Anatolia (East Thrace, Istanbul) and Crete. Other areas score different types of WANA (Cypriot, Iranian & Broadly mainly).

Or is it just the case they can't differentiate between different types of WANA accurately? After all, I've seen a half Cyprus/half Symi individual score 100% Cypriot, even though I also match his father from Symi and he has a normal Dodecanese result. Perhaps the guesses just are rubbish ultimately?

Markos
03-04-2021, 03:04 PM
Perhaps the guesses just are rubbish ultimately?

That is the question! :lol:

peloponnesian
03-04-2021, 03:39 PM
But, what's interesting is 23andMe's Greek & Balkan component could be anything from Northern Greek (and more northern) to Southern Greeks and so this could be a crucial difference when seeing results on GEDMatch or G25. For example, xripkan and XXD have a decent amount of WANA in their results maybe because of very real recent ancestry, but a comparison on 23andMe to others with similar components may not do it justice if their "Greek & Balkan" component is more northern shifted. We know this is the case from G25 results we have seen in this thread. it is worth exploring if we know the ancestry of all people involved because it could give us clues to what specific parts of Greece may be shifted one way or the other, for whatever reason that may be.

23andMe is frustrating because it 'flips' Greek and Italian ancestry. Instead of giving south Italians & Sicilians Greek ancestry it gives southern Greeks and islanders Italian. Probably a business decision by 23andMe to avoid angry Italian-American e-mails to their customer service :P And yeah, the Greek & Balkan category is too broad.

The assignment of regions also relies too much on sampling error: mostly Americans do tests -> a lot of Greek-Americans are of Peloponnesian ancestry -> everyone gets Peloponnese as one of their top regions. The IBD sharing with Albanians and other Balkans is real but there was even a Romanian getting Peloponnese as their 2nd top region. This can't be right.

Sorcelow
03-04-2021, 03:44 PM
Here are my results:

https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/156562631_790906981520235_7459842071424349699_n.pn g?_nc_cat=110&ccb=3&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=ElX9vUjJwwQAX9kjzJ6&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=41f3f6708da9b3aca7b52deb31d56eb2&oe=6066CFCA

My father on the other hand, scored 93% Greek and 7% Anatolian.

dosas
03-04-2021, 05:12 PM
I am wondering if the 'Anatolian' category of 23andMe implies Turkish ancestry. The 2 individuals I mentioned do not score random bits of WANA like most of my other matches, just all in Anatolian. From my matches, mainly the individuals that score large chunks of 'Anatolian' are ones with some grandparents coming from northwest Anatolia (East Thrace, Istanbul) and Crete. Other areas score different types of WANA (Cypriot, Iranian & Broadly mainly).

Or is it just the case they can't differentiate between different types of WANA accurately? After all, I've seen a half Cyprus/half Symi individual score 100% Cypriot, even though I also match his father from Symi and he has a normal Dodecanese result. Perhaps the guesses just are rubbish ultimately?


Some Turkish posters argued that the category has a Turkic component baked in, because it is mostly based on modern Turkish samples. I don't have an opinion but I am open to any interpretation, I think most companies don't really know what to do with the "West Asian" cluster.

altvred
03-04-2021, 05:45 PM
23andMe is frustrating because it 'flips' Greek and Italian ancestry. Instead of giving south Italians & Sicilians Greek ancestry it gives southern Greeks and islanders Italian. Probably a business decision by 23andMe to avoid angry Italian-American e-mails to their customer service :P And yeah, the Greek & Balkan category is too broad.

The assignment of regions also relies too much on sampling error: mostly Americans do tests -> a lot of Greek-Americans are of Peloponnesian ancestry -> everyone gets Peloponnese as one of their top regions. The IBD sharing with Albanians and other Balkans is real but there was even a Romanian getting Peloponnese as their 2nd top region. This can't be right.

The population groupings that 23andMe uses are in dire need of a major update; how can you lump together the Balkans + mainland Greece + the Greek Islands as one ancestry group?

Looking over their population reference datasets right now, something I've noticed:

https://i.imgur.com/SeAo0uj.png

Maltese are listed as one of the references for Greek & Balkan. Maybe it's just a typing error, but still very odd.

Greekscholar
03-04-2021, 05:50 PM
23andMe is frustrating because it 'flips' Greek and Italian ancestry. Instead of giving south Italians & Sicilians Greek ancestry it gives southern Greeks and islanders Italian. Probably a business decision by 23andMe to avoid angry Italian-American e-mails to their customer service :P And yeah, the Greek & Balkan category is too broad.

The assignment of regions also relies too much on sampling error: mostly Americans do tests -> a lot of Greek-Americans are of Peloponnesian ancestry -> everyone gets Peloponnese as one of their top regions. The IBD sharing with Albanians and other Balkans is real but there was even a Romanian getting Peloponnese as their 2nd top region. This can't be right.

I've never seen the appeal of 23andMe. This is just one of the reasons. Why pay for another test that refuses to organize(and/or name) their genetic regions around the current research.

I believe the Turkish user: Liquid is an example of how the new Anatolian label contains Central Asian admixture. If memory serves this poster was 99% Anatolian per the test but had the expected Central Asian admixture of G25.